--- Log opened Mon Aug 01 00:00:19 2011
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01:56 < deepfuture> #go.cn :-D
01:58 < ph1234k> I'm having an issue installing Go on linux, when I try to
hg clone the repository it hangs.  Then if I try to switch to http instead of
https, it reads back the docstring and says it's not supported.  Can anyone help?
02:01 < ampleyfly> sure you got the right url?
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02:02 < ph1234k> https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ Isn't that correct?
02:02 < ampleyfly> I think so
02:03 < exch> It's in the Getting Started doc on golang.org
02:03 < exch> If that doesn't work, something must be off on your system or
your internet connection
02:05 < ph1234k> That's where I from it from and that's what I'm following.
I am using Ubuntu 9.10, do you think that the mercurial package from the Ubuntu
repo could be deprecated for it?
02:05 < exch> mm not sure.  I don't use ubuntu myself
02:06 < ph1234k> What do you use?  I can easily install another or updated
distro.  I run them all on virtual machines
02:07 < exch> Arch Linux
02:07 < ph1234k> I'll try it out.
02:08 < exch> It should be able to ork on ubuntu tbh.  I haven't seen anyone
else with your issues recently
02:08 < exch> There's a bunch of ubuntu people around
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02:11 < ph1234k> Well I think it may be that I need an updated Mercurial
package.  The one from the repo is like 1.2 i think and Ubuntu no longer keeps an
updated package for 9.10 on their site.
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02:12 < exch> mm Well, I guess you could find a .deb manually or upgrade
ubuntu
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02:14 < ph1234k> Yeah, the only issue is that I installed on Virtual pc
instead of virtualbox and newer releases of Ubuntu (possibly newer linux kernals
period) don't recognize Virtual PC's processor emulator as a supported processor
so I can't upgrade.  But I have VirtualBox so I'm just gonna move to that.
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06:06 < treeder> howdy
06:07 < ph1234k> Hey
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08:31 < hokapoka> Am I incorrect that a func init of a type is called when
you create a new instance of the type?
08:31 < aiju> no
08:31 < aiju> i mean
08:32 < aiju> yes, you're incorrect
08:32 < hokapoka> Okay, I thought that was the case I must have dreamed it
then!
08:32 < hokapoka> thanks aiju
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08:42 < jessta> hokapoka: the init function of a package is called when it's
imported though
08:44 < erus`> im trying to solve the snail problem without looking at
anyone elses code
08:44 < erus`> holy crap
08:44 < erus`> this is not easy in a functional language
08:50 < hokapoka> jessta: yes I've used that a number of times.  For some
reason I thought I read a post that said init is now avaliable for types, but like
I say I could have dreamed it up!
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11:04 < ThreeSix> oh the snail problem, I finished it with a nice code, also
my friend.  check it after you done
11:04 < ThreeSix> http://pastebin.com/qjnBGEVJ http://pastebin.com/br6JFpPC
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11:20 < erus`> ThreeSix: heres mine http://hpaste.org/49741
11:20 < erus`> but it can be done in one line of haskell i hear :P
11:21 < ThreeSix> o.o
11:21 < erus`> apart from the printing out
11:21 < erus`> but the list transformation in a single line
11:21 < aiju> and one line of haskell takes hundred times as long to write
than one line of go
11:21 < aiju> i'm not even kidding, that's my experience with K
11:24 < erus`> aiju: clockwise (x:xs) = x ++ (clockwise $ reverse $
transpose $ xs)
11:24 < erus`> 4 functions total :O
11:24 < erus`> (function applications)
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11:25 < aiju> (|1,|1,+':)\[20;,1]
11:25 < aiju> pascal's triangle in K
11:26 < erus`> is K like golfscript?
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11:27 < aiju> K is like APL
11:28 < erus`> ah
11:28 < erus`> like J
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11:41 < exch> Behold, the Gopher ^^
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=a14d36254eb50cd6&sc=photos&id=A14D36254EB50CD6%21407&sff=1#cid=A14D36254EB50CD6&id=A14D36254EB50CD6%21409&sc=photos
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11:46 < ThreeSix> awesome :o
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12:46 < go^lang> how to convert 3.00001 to 3.0 ?
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12:48 < erus`> round
12:48 < erus`> Math.round maybe
12:48 < erus`> or Math.Floor
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12:59 < moraes> when testing in the app engine sdk, very basic example from
docs.  why request.URL.Raw/Scheme/Host are blank?
13:00 < moraes> sorry.  Raw is not.  but it is the simple path.
13:00 < moraes> Scheme and Host are blank.
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13:03 < skelterjohn> link to the example?
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13:04 < moraes>
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/go/gettingstarted/helloworld.html
13:04 < moraes> first one
13:05 < moraes> i guess it is just dispatched passing an incomplete request
with path only
13:05 < moraes> werid anyway
13:05 < moraes> *weird
13:08 < ThreeSix> woo I just compiled go-opengl underwindows
13:08 < moraes> woo
13:08 < ThreeSix> lol
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13:15 < moraes> i'll be back, have to switch os'es for a while.  :)
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13:23 < erus`> ThreeSix: how?
13:23 < erus`> not cygwin i hope?
13:26 < ThreeSix> mingw
13:26 < ThreeSix> compiled glew with mingw
13:27 < ThreeSix> cleared an unsed function and I think thats what did it
13:28 < erus`> i could never get gomake to work
13:28 < erus`> it has uname and stuff in the makefile
13:28 < erus`> which isnt a command on windows
13:28 < ThreeSix> use msys
13:30 < ThreeSix> install mingw+msys add env vars edit Make.inc a little and
it should work
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13:41 < erus`> i dont like installing all the unix compatibility crap on
windows
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13:41 < erus`> might aswel just use *nix
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13:42 < aiju> i just drawterm into a plan 9 installation
13:44 < ThreeSix> ah
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14:28 < humanfromearth> Hello, how do I tell goinstall that a package has
dependencies?
14:28 < exch> Goinstall should figure that out by itself
14:28 < exch> Provided those dependencies are goinstallable as well
14:28 < humanfromearth> by looking at imports?
14:28 < exch> yes
14:29 < humanfromearth> is there a way to 'uninstall' a package?
14:30 < jessta> humanfromearth: in the current release you just have to
delete the directories
14:30 < exch> There doesnt seem to be a flag for that.  You can remve it by
removing the package name from the $GOROOT/goinstall.log file
14:31 < humanfromearth> I see, thanks.
14:31 < jessta> I beleive the next release will have a -nuke flag
14:31 < exch> it already does, but it only leans build files
14:31 < exch> *cleans
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14:45 < skelterjohn|work> morning all
14:46 < exch> lo
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14:56 * al-maisan is looking at the ta generators on
http://go-lang.cat-v.org/dev-utils
14:57 < al-maisan> is "ctags-go - Exuberant ctags" known to work?
14:57 < nicka1> as far as I know it works
14:58 < nicka1> I compiled it and it generated a tag file but I didn't
really use it with anything so I can't comment on the quality of the tag file
15:00 < skelterjohn|work> what's it supposed to do?
15:01 < nicka1> adds go support to exuberant ctags
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15:01 < skelterjohn|work> what's exuberant ctags?
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15:02 < nicka1> it generates a tag file that lists variables, functions and
whatever other language constructs
15:02 < al-maisan> skelterjohn|work: it generates a tag file that can be
used with the vim editor
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15:03 < skelterjohn|work> cool
15:03 < nicka1> al-maisan if you're just looking to use vim, check out
http://go-lang.cat-v.org/text-editors/vim/
15:03 < al-maisan> nicka1: thanks for the pointer
15:03 < nicka1> gocode is quite good
15:03 * al-maisan looks
15:04 < mattn_jp> see $GOROOT/misc/vim
15:04 < al-maisan> thanks again :)
15:04 < skelterjohn|work> that will just be syntax coloring, no?
15:05 < skelterjohn|work> gocode does autocomplete
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15:05 < nicka1> the syntax highlighting stuff is included in
$GOROOT/misc/vim
15:06 < nicka1> and is listed on the page I linked
15:06 < al-maisan> that's right
15:06 < mattn_jp> $GOROOT/misc/include include some useful plugins.  :)
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15:31 < ThreeSix> finally
15:31 < ThreeSix> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12236219/das.JPG
15:31 < ThreeSix> got opengl on windows
15:31 < ThreeSix> :D
15:31 < skelterjohn|work> pure go?
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15:32 < nicka1> he's using banthar's package
15:33 < ThreeSix> nicka: yeah with wingui and another package I have coded
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15:33 < skelterjohn|work> have you tried glfw?
15:33 < ThreeSix> glfw?
15:33 < nicka1> <3 glfw
15:34 < skelterjohn|work> https://github.com/jteeuwen/glfw
15:34 < skelterjohn|work> i had trouble getting it to work with windows,
though
15:34 < al-maisan> JFR: this ctags generator works nicely:
https://github.com/lyosha/ctags-go
15:34 < skelterjohn|work> maybe as someone who knows what's going on with
windows you'll have better luck
15:37 < gnuvince> What does this message mean?  throw: all goroutines are
asleep - deadlock!
15:38 < mattn_jp> panic("No Replies")
15:41 < skelterjohn|work> it means every goroutine is waiting on a channel
or a mutex
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#go-nuts ["means every goroutine is waiting on a channel or a mutex"]
15:41 < skelterjohn|work> and since they're all waiting, no one can send
something on one of those channels, or unlock one of those mutexes
15:42 < mattn_jp> windows?
15:42 < gnuvince> linux
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15:43 < mattn_jp> do you have small program that can reproduce?
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15:43 < gnuvince> No
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15:47 < gnuvince> I'm thinking that my model for doing DB requests just
sucks.  I send closures onto a channel which are consumed by a goroutine that
executes the query.  Works nice in practice, but it's a pain in the ass to unit
test.
15:48 < ThreeSix> skelterjohn|work: I got it compiled :]
15:48 < skelterjohn|work> it's easy to compile
15:48 < skelterjohn|work> harder to link
15:48 < ThreeSix> oh
15:48 < skelterjohn|work> if you get it working you should make a writeup,
maybe
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16:06 < uriel> adg: can you please ask Brad to explain to you guys how to
fix the spam in the go lists?
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16:27 < ThreeSix> nah I got this error when I'm trying to use glfw.a
16:27 < ThreeSix>
C:\Go/pkg/windows_386/github.com/jteeuwen/glfw.a(glfw.cgo2.o)(.text):
glfwCloseWindow: not defined window.8 ‪/Tests/src/cmd/_obj‬ line 0 Problem
16:28 < jlaffaye> oh, the patch package is nice.  I would not expect to have
such a package in the standard lib of a language though :p
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16:29 < ThreeSix> lol
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16:29 < ph1234k> Has anyone here made a program with a GUI in Go?
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16:31 < ThreeSix> os?
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16:32 < erus`> ph1234k: yeah i used a webserver with http clients...  :O
16:32 < jlaffaye> I compiled the example of the go gtk binding once.  does
that count?  :)
16:33 < ph1234k> Well I was using the windows port because I was being lazy
but now I have it installed on linux so either os
16:33 < erus`> ph1234k: i used the opengl binding
16:34 < erus`> they were good
16:34 < pheuter> how many simultaneous connections does http support?
16:34 < ph1234k> Did you draw it on a canvas element or use css erus'
16:34 < erus`> canvas
16:35 < erus`> but it was a game
16:35 < jessta> I used the exp/gui and image/draw packages to make an X11
gui
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16:36 < ph1234k> I want to make a CA program so I need to draw and update a
grid.  Which would be the simplests method?
16:37 < jessta> pheuter: the package or the protocol?
16:37 < pheuter> ListenAndServe
16:38 < jessta> as many as there is memory,bandwidth and file descripters
for I assume
16:39 < pheuter> it s a non-blocking server, right?
16:39 < jessta> the goroutines block, the threads don't block
16:39 < jessta> the runtime uses epoll
16:40 < aiju> the threads block with epoll ;P
16:40 < jessta> a thread blocks with epoll
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16:48 < pheuter> Is there a way I can detach an exec.Command from my http
server so that the process doesn't go <defunct> after thread closes?
16:48 < pheuter> I think i just dont close after Start()
16:49 < moraes> what happened to strings.SplitN?
16:49 < pheuter> but i dont see how i can close it
16:49 < jessta> pheuter: you wantto kill the process?
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16:50 < jessta> or just let it finish?
16:50 < pheuter> no, the thing is, even after it finishes running, it
becomes <defunct> in `ps`.  I just want it to go away
16:50 < moraes> oh.  Split ate SplitN.
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16:53 < pheuter> jessta: any ideas?
16:53 < jessta> pheuter: you have to wait() for the process to end
16:53 < pheuter> ah, k
16:53 < pheuter> thnx
16:54 < jessta> you can call wait() in a goroutine so as not to block
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17:59 < jrabbit> is Rob Pike's OScon talk's video up somewhere?
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18:02 < f2f> the slides from the presentation are.  the video isn't yet
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18:04 < jrabbit> f2f: hm ok I'll ret and check back on it in a week
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18:12 < skelterjohn|work> kind of wish i could peek at a buffered channel
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18:20 < zozoR> skelterjohn, pull it out and put it in again?  :P
18:21 < skelterjohn|work> no need to get dirty
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18:27 < jessta> skelterjohn|work: looking at things that might not be there
is weird
18:28 < ph1234k> Or build your own kind of buffer.  Have the channel send to
a variable then read the variable to peek.  You'd need to build functions to read
the next item from the channel and so forth but that's not hard
18:29 < jessta> what would you do with the information if you could peak?
18:30 < skelterjohn|work> i'm making a silly game for no reason, using a
buffered channel (of size 1) to keep track of what entity is in a cell
18:30 < skelterjohn|work> and i want a way to examine that cell
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18:35 < erus`> skelterjohn wtf
18:35 < erus`> why not a pointer?
18:35 < skelterjohn|work> pointers aren't good at mutexing
18:35 < skelterjohn|work> and also aren't channels
18:36 < skelterjohn|work> and i wanted to make a toy multi-agent game with
channels
18:36 < skelterjohn|work> so the channel part is pretty key
18:36 < erus`> you wanna write to these ents from multiple threads?
18:36 < skelterjohn|work> every agent gets its own goroutine
18:37 < erus`> 2d array of cells?
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18:38 < skelterjohn|work> perhaps
18:38 < erus`> whats the game then?
18:39 < skelterjohn|work> haven't figured that part out yet
18:39 < hsoj> is there anything special that needs to be done in order to
build with CGO?  (outside of defining CGO files)
18:39 < erus`> whats the general idea?
18:39 < skelterjohn|work> hsoj: no (but it has to be a package, not a
command)
18:39 < hsoj> nod
18:39 < hsoj> I am trying to simply do //#include <stdio.h> and a
C.printf
18:40 < skelterjohn|work> erus`: not sure, but thinking about some kind of
maze where you drop a bunch of agents in, and they can flit around and communicate
with nearby agents, and all have to eventually reach a common goal
18:40 < erus`> parallel corewars would be interesting
18:40 < skelterjohn|work> hsoj: try it out - if it doesn't work i'll help
you figure out why
18:41 < skelterjohn|work> erus`: and the agent's behavior and communication
would be user-definable - just want to create a convenient platform now
18:41 < skelterjohn|work> and i'm trying to be slick with channels
18:41 < skelterjohn|work> cause why not
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19:11 < gmilleramilar> why is there no atomic.CompareAndSwapBool?
19:12 < skelterjohn|work> platform independence?
19:12 < gmilleramilar> how would that be platform dependent?
19:12 < aiju> hahahahaha
19:12 < aiju> "how is compare and swap platform dependent"
19:12 < skelterjohn|work> kind of thing that generally goes in assembly code
19:13 < skelterjohn|work> which is usually platform dependent
19:13 < aiju> fun fact: there are processors without any atomic instructions
19:13 < vegai> like...  coal processors?
19:13 < gmilleramilar> I guess you could modify my question to: how would
that make Go any more platform dependent than it already is.
19:13 < aiju> hahahahahahahah
19:13 < skelterjohn|work> uh
19:14 < aiju> gmilleramilar: you are not supposed to use sync/atomic, i'd
say
19:14 < aiju> period
19:14 < aiju> use a channel
19:14 < skelterjohn|work> gmilleramilar: to achieve this kind of behavior
you can use the built in tools
19:14 < aiju> These functions require great care to be used correctly.
Except for special, low-level applications, synchronization is better done with
channels or the facilities of the sync package.  Share memory by communicating;
don't communicate by sharing memory.
19:14 < aiju> ^-- sync/atomic documentation
19:14 < skelterjohn|work> and there is nothing in the language itself that
is platform dependent
19:14 < ThreeSix> skelterjohn|work: I cant seem to make that glfw work even
when I'm compiling my own file with simple function, after compiling it outputs
that functions are not defined
19:14 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: bs
19:14 < skelterjohn|work> ThreeSix: yeah, that's the kind of problem i had
19:14 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: Go assumes either a 32 bit or 64 bit
architecture
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> ok.
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19:15 < skelterjohn|work> that's not particularly convincing.
19:16 < gmilleramilar> I'm still confused.
19:16 < gmilleramilar> clearly they're to be used or they wouldn't be there.
19:16 < skelterjohn|work> oh, never saw that package before
19:17 < gmilleramilar> it seems like you could easily add one more function
for a bool type.
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19:17 < skelterjohn|work> you could use ints instead of bools
19:17 < skelterjohn|work> and test != 0
19:17 < gmilleramilar> yeah, you could but that's still no reason not to
have it.
19:17 < gmilleramilar> by that argument you dont need the *32 variants
either.
19:17 < skelterjohn|work> i certainly don't
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19:19 < skelterjohn|work> but i imagine that on some machines, a word is of
size 32, and on others 64
19:19 < skelterjohn|work> very few machines have a word of size 1
19:19 < skelterjohn|work> so the operation would be using 32 bits anyway,
even if it existed for bool
19:20 < skelterjohn|work> which doesn't apply to using 32 bits inside the 64
bit function
19:20 < gmilleramilar> it's not a space issue, it's an ergonomics issue
19:20 < aiju> 21:17 < gmilleramilar> it seems like you could easily
add one more function for a bool type.
19:20 < skelterjohn|work> my point was it would do the exact same thing
19:20 < aiju> that's idiotic logic
19:20 < aiju> sync/atomic is used for low-level crap
19:20 < aiju> it is not meant to be used for most stuff
19:20 < skelterjohn|work> with the 32bit or 64bit version - just pretend
it's called bool and do == 0
19:20 < aiju> you are not supposed to use it
19:21 < aiju> no need to bloat it
19:21 < skelterjohn|work> that's pretty silly logic, too
19:21 < aiju> sync/atomic has everything you need when you need it
19:21 < gmilleramilar> aiju: I've heeded the warning, I need to do low-level
stuff, I'm using it.
19:22 < skelterjohn|work> gmilleramilar: then depending on your arch, either
the 32bit or 64bit version is what you want
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19:28 < wrtp> skelterjohn|work: for your channel thing, you can peek by
simply reading from the channel, then writing the value back
19:29 < wrtp> i always used to do mutexes that way
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> not in the context i was thinking
19:30 < skelterjohn|work> since i was using it as a mutex
19:30 < skelterjohn|work> if one of the goroutines trying to send on the
channel got in first, things would go south
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19:32 < wrtp> f2f: where are the slides from rob's OScon talk?
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19:33 < wrtp> anyone know?
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19:37 < wrtp> ah found it.
http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/61/The%20Expressiveness%20of%20Go%20Presentation.pdf
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20:17 < pilki> hello everyone !
20:17 < pilki> I'm discovering the language, and I have a few question about
the language (and in particular the type system)
20:17 < aiju> ask ahead
20:17 < aiju> most people in here don't bite
20:18 < nicka1> aiju does sometimes
20:18 < pilki> I would like to know if it is possible to write polymorphic
functions
20:18 < aiju> define polymorphic
20:18 < pilki> I haven't found that in the documentation
20:18 < pilki> I just found possibility through interfaces
20:18 < aiju> what the fuck is a polymorphic function
20:18 < knowmercy> as with any language there are many design patterns
20:19 < knowmercy> go is no exception
20:19 < knowmercy> wanting to write one for the sake of writing one is kinda
silly IMO
20:19 < pilki> aiju : something like "min_value is a function that expects
two values of type T, with T having wichever interface, and return a value of type
T"
20:19 < aiju> pilki: ah you mean a generic
20:19 < aiju> no
20:19 < pilki> you can't ?
20:20 < aiju> well, you can use interfaces
20:20 < aiju> for most usecases
20:20 < pilki> not for this case :-\
20:20 < aiju> yeah
20:20 < aiju> because
20:20 < aiju> if x > y { min = y } else { min = x }
20:21 < pilki> next question then :
20:21 <+iant> pilki: In Go terms that comes under generic types, which do
not exist at present; http://golang.org/doc/go_faq.html#generics
20:21 < pilki> when defining an interface, is it possible to talk about the
actual type (often called self) ?
20:21 < pilki> oh, the faq, I missed this one
20:22 < pilki> let me read through it before I continue with my questions
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20:22 <+iant> you can talk about the interface type you are defining if you
give it a name
20:22 <+iant> type I interface { identify(I) I }
20:22 <+iant> (I meant to write Identity there)
20:22 <+iant> (but whatever)
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20:23 < pilki> yes but no :)
20:23 < aiju> clarify your question
20:24 < pilki> say I want to say a type is "comparable"
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20:24 <+iant> another form of generics, then
20:24 < pilki> like has a compare(T) bool
20:24 < aiju> what iant said
20:24 < pilki> mmh, I don't think so
20:24 <+iant> you can write about the interface type; you can't write about
the dynamic type
20:25 < aiju> 21:20 < taruti> on the other hand getting a girl for
aiju would make him more experienced and balanced, on the other hand it could
lower the amount of code contributed :(
20:25 < aiju> sorry ;P
20:25 < aiju> oops
20:25 < aiju> "Go is not meant to innovate programming theory.  It’s meant
to innovate programming practice." -- Samuel Tesla
20:25 < pilki> ok so you can't tell about a type that is comparable
20:25 < pilki> uh, self type is not "programming theory" :-\
20:25 <+iant> correct
20:25 < pilki> it's been around for many many years
20:25 < aiju> i feel like you're getting too much into theoretical problems
20:26 < aiju> "what if"
20:26 < aiju> instead of trying the language
20:26 < pilki> well, the thing is, to try a new language, I need to find it
appealing (there are sooooo many languages around that if you don't filter a bit,
you just spend days and night "just trying them")
20:27 * aiju shrugs
20:27 < aiju> i can't relate to all these generics and whatever stuff, i
write fucking code
20:27 < nicka1> Just trust our unbiased opinions that Go is appealing
20:27 < pilki> ahah nicka1 :)
20:28 < aiju> i feel like people are demanding complex language because they
are overcomplicating the task
20:28 < pilki> aiju : I guess I'm a poor quality programer, but I love some
support from the language when I "write fucking code"
20:28 < taruti> aiju: they want complex languages to compensate for their
own simplicity.
20:29 < aiju> when i want a linked list i place a "next" pointer in my
structures
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leva che succ...]
20:29 <+iant> pilki: see the sort interface for the way Go programs normally
handle issues like comparable types
20:29 < pilki> aiju> most people in here don't bite <--- but they do
treat you as "simple" when you ask questions
20:29 <+iant> I'm not sure that is quite what is happening....
20:29 < aiju> pilki: well, i didn't say that
20:30 <+iant> but I do think people could be slightly more polite
20:30 < taruti> sorry
20:31 < aiju> i think the sort package is one of the uglier ones
20:32 <+iant> the sort package is ugly--because it is working around the
lack of generic types
20:32 < aiju> i feel like a struct of function pointers would be more
appropriate than what it has right now
20:33 <+iant> Not sure I agree
20:33 < pilki> for those who ask why I want polymorphism: having a function
Float64sAreSorted and IntsAreSorted seems like a bad effect of the lack of
polymorphism
20:33 < aiju> you mean generics
20:33 <+iant> generics have been discussed at enormous length on the mailing
list
20:33 <+iant> the topic remains on the table
20:34 < pilki> aiju : generics is just one way to have polymorphism, but
yes, if you want, in this case I mean something like generics
20:34 < aiju> polymorphism is an overloaded word
20:34 < knowmercy> Just trust us when we say Go rocks!
20:34 < aiju> with at least 9001 meanings
20:35 <+iant> In Go all discussion of polymorphism is grouped under
generics, and many possible approaches to the whole issue have been discussed
20:35 < knowmercy> what about the guy who asked the question like, "Why did
yo ubuild such a broken, dim witted concurrency model????"
20:35 < aiju> knowmercy: get a shotgun?
20:36 < knowmercy> aiju: it was in a talk that Andrew gave
20:36 < pilki> so in the sort package, you don't ask the type to be
comparable, but the collection itself to bring the comparison function
20:37 < pilki> I got it right ?
20:37 < aiju> yeah
20:37 < aiju> pilki: you could sort a doubly linked list that way if i'm not
mistaken
20:37 <+iant> sort of; I would say: you write adapter functions for the type
so that it meets the interface required by the sort package
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20:37 < knowmercy> aiju: but I agree, shotgun would be appropriate
20:37 <+iant> it's common for packages to require that types meet
interfaces, and it's common to write small adapter functions so that the types do
in face meet those interfaces
20:38 <+iant> s/face/fact/
20:39 < pilki> another question: do we have enumeration ? or I need to use
const with iota ? and if yes, can I still have type safety (I don't know how to
hide the definition of a type)?
20:39 < knowmercy> iant: that's an OO pattern
20:39 < aiju> pilki: we have consts with iota
20:39 < aiju> pilki: period
20:40 <+iant> knowmercy: it's an OO pattern, but it's particularly simple in
Go because you don't have to declare the relationship between types and
interfaces, unlike C++ or Java
20:40 < aiju> pilki: you can get some type safety by defining your own type
20:40 <+iant> pilki: just consts, but there is still type safety, because
you can name the type
20:40 < aiju> it's not entirely type safe
20:40 <+iant> ...I think it is if you write your code correctly
20:40 < pilki> I can name the type, but can I "hide" the facts it's an int ?
20:40 <+iant> yes
20:41 < aiju> no
20:41 <+iant> no?
20:41 < aiju> type MyEnum int
20:41 < pilki> iant : if you write your code correctly, then type safety is
useless :)
20:41 < aiju> var x MyEnum
20:41 < aiju> x = 1
20:41 < aiju> is perfectly fine
20:41 <+iant> oh yes, that is true
20:41 < pilki> ok, so no type safety there
20:41 <+iant> because of ideal constants
20:41 < aiju> pilki: you can't assign apple to oranges
20:41 < aiju> const foo MyEnum = 42
20:41 <+iant> it only applies to constants
20:41 < aiju> const bar SomeOtherEnum = 36
20:42 < aiju> x = bar // error
20:42 < pilki> you can't hide the definition of a type outside of a package
?
20:42 < pilki> (abstract type)
20:42 < aiju> people can use the program cat(1)
20:42 < aiju> which magically reads text files
20:42 < aiju> to look into the package
20:42 <+iant> you can make the type a struct with non-exported field names
20:42 < aiju> and then they find all the drugs you hide in your types
20:43 <+iant> then other packages can not examine the fields (except via the
reflect package)
20:43 < pilki> so I can do something like
20:43 < pilki> type MyEnum struct{ content int}
20:43 < aiju> yeah
20:43 < pilki> const MyEnum1 = 42
20:43 < aiju> but it will be awkward to use
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20:44 < pilki> you can't use a switch on such a struct I guess ?
20:44 <+iant> you would to write MyEnum{ 42 }
20:44 < aiju> i'm not sure whether that has changed, but you can't copy
structures with hidden members
20:44 < pilki> yeah sory, const MyEnum42 = MyEnum{42}
20:44 <+iant> to use a switch you would need to have each case invoke a
comparison function, so, no, too awkward
20:44 < pilki> ok :-\
20:45 < aiju> with Go, evil people will be stealing your enums
20:46 < pilki> aiju : I am the evil guy in fact
20:47 < pilki> because I'm often tired, or I think about something else, or
whatever
20:47 < aiju> try caffeine
20:47 < pilki> so I want protection against myself :)
20:47 < pilki> not the other one
20:47 < knowmercy> if you can't write good code then you shouldn't be a
developer
20:47 < knowmercy> Just saying ;)
20:47 < aiju> i have written thousands of lines of assembly
20:47 < aiju> type checking with structures becomes a fucking luxury after
that
20:47 < knowmercy> you aren't going to go back to K&R and complain about C
are you?
20:48 < pilki> knowmercy : why do you use go and not a language with no type
system ?
20:48 < knowmercy> because it's fast to build and run stuff and I need speed
20:48 < pilki> <knowmercy> if you can't write good code then you
shouldn't be a developer <--- thank you :)
20:48 < knowmercy> I really have grown to hate the "type" argument
20:49 < aiju> type safety *is* useful
20:49 < aiju> it makes refactoring code much easier
20:49 < knowmercy> pilki: that's the truth, the second part to that is
writing tests to test your code
20:49 < aiju> i just don't see too much of the point for enums
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20:49 < knowmercy> aiju: agreed, I just hate the arguement ;)
20:49 < aiju> and i don't see the point at all with "hiding types"
20:49 < pilki> let's say that enum is ADT of the poor
20:49 < pilki> and ADT rocks, a lot
20:50 < pilki> but well
20:50 < aiju> hahahahaha
20:50 < aiju> i see
20:50 < aiju> you are a haskell programmer
20:50 < pilki> I am not sir
20:50 < aiju> you seem like one
20:50 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.59.157.107.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined
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20:50 < pilki> but well, if liking ADTs makes me laughable at
20:50 < knowmercy> I write java at my day job and the thing about java
developers is they all hate everything !like java
20:51 < knowmercy> for no reason usually
20:51 < knowmercy> "i've learned java"
20:51 < nicka> because they've been indoctrinated to like java :P
20:51 < knowmercy> yeah
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20:52 < pilki> well guys, I think you have earned the award of the less
friendly irc channel I've ever been :)
20:52 < aiju> so that's your first time to IRC?
20:52 < nicka> I warned you about aiju fwiw
20:52 < pilki> have a nice day
20:52 <+iant> I really would encourage people to more polite
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20:52 <+iant> everybody is new to Go at some point
20:53 < knowmercy> wait, I won an award!
20:53 <+iant> more polite to newcomers, anyhow
20:53 < knowmercy> how new do you have to be?
20:53 < aiju> knowmercy: if you read the spec, we can start saying "fuck"
20:53 < knowmercy> anyhow, what'd oracle do to java 7 that pissed off the
masses?
20:53 < aiju> which scares off the children
20:54 < knowmercy> :)
20:54 < KirkMcDonald> More #python, less ##c?
20:54 < str1ngs> aiju: you really need to stop being such a jerk
20:54 < nicka> at least to newcomers
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20:54 < knowmercy> and me too cause I'm going through a lot right now and
I'm sensitive and forgetful :)
20:55 < aiju> str1ngs: hey i didn't call him simple
20:55 < str1ngs> aiju: I suggest you troll another channel.  picking on
random new go people is getting pretty low.
20:55 < str1ngs> and this is not the first time.
20:56 < knowmercy> ooh, I did have something I wanted to chat about
20:56 < erus`> knowmercy: why do you dislike types?
20:56 < knowmercy> so the topic came up in the mailing list about GOMAXPROCS
20:56 < knowmercy> erus`: I dislike the arguement about types
20:57 < knowmercy> "strong versus weak versus explicit" etc
20:57 < erus`> ah
20:57 < erus`> what was the consensus?
21:00 < knowmercy> well, someone said something about depending on the
scheduler of the OS...  so if the OS doesn't have good threading/scheduling that
number will be affected
21:00 < knowmercy> OpenBSD comes to mind with biglock and only userland
threading
21:00 < aiju> basically the optimal value of GOMAXPROCS depends on the phase
of the moon
21:00 < knowmercy> anyhow, it got me thinking if we bypass the OS scheduler
that's a good thing mostly
21:01 < aiju> we can't bypass the fucking OS scheduler
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21:01 < aiju> unless we run on bare hardware ;P
21:01 < knowmercy> if we're running multiple go routines on one thread we
have a better chance
21:03 < ph1234k> build your own rootkit to replace the os scheduler :)
21:03 < knowmercy> anyhow, time to commute
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22:34 < skelterjohn> hmm, the version of exp/template in the new release
doesn't seem to support either {{$x=.Y}} or {{if $x=.Y}}
22:35 < exch> $x := .Y
22:37 < skelterjohn> doesn't help - this is something that worked in the
weeklies
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22:43 < exch> oh right.  release build
22:43 * exch needs to pay more attention
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23:00 < exch> The cute face of my gopher is distracting
23:00 < crest> *gg*
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23:02 < cbeck> Mine's sitting dead center under my monitor, it's sustaining
me through this long slog o're the java wastelands
23:04 < exch> Once I unite mine with Purple Tentacle, Go can properly take
over the world.  The two will be unstoppable
23:04 < exch> http://site.jteeuwen.nl/news/2011/08/01/gopher.html
23:09 <@adg> exch: !!!
23:09 < kergoth> awesome.
23:09 <@adg> that is the greatest
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23:12 < exch> heh thanks.  I love it ^^
23:12 <@adg> uriel: turned on moderation for new members and non-members in
golang-nuts
23:14 < cbeck> adg: bless you
23:20 < gmilleramilar> adg: why such a quick turnaround between r58.1 and
r59?
23:20 < gmilleramilar> guess it wasn't that quick
23:20 < gmilleramilar> time flies
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23:33 < hoozleboozle> Anybody happen to know if big.Int doesn't have a
MulInt64 out of principle or because nobody has added it?  (GMP has such a
function, and it's more convenient/faster in some cases.)
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 02 00:00:19 2011