--- Log opened Sun Aug 14 00:00:20 2011
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00:27 < moraes> aiju, you're a ninja.
00:34 < KBme> he is
00:34 < KBme> he effing wrote a kernel in go
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00:50 < s|k> a kernel in go
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00:50 < s|k> that sounds awesome
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00:55 < KBme> it isn't
00:56 < raylu> that sounds terrible, actually
00:56 < KBme> you're getting closer..
00:57 < KBme> http://code.google.com/p/gofy/source/browse/
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01:07 < s|k> since there is a run time, users have to have go installed in
order to run a go program right?
01:07 < s|k> runtime*
01:09 < KBme> i think with go the runtime gets linked into the binary?
static linking for the win!
01:10 * KBme not a ninja
01:11 < raylu> i believe so too
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01:13 < KBme> hay i didn't want to start a religion!  go away!  :P
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01:19 < str1ngs> s|k: what KBme said
01:20 < s|k> thanks
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02:35 < jessta> s|k: just like how C's runtime is linked in to C binaries
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08:28 < Kahvi> Morning
08:28 < str1ngs> hello
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12:38 < fenicks> hello
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13:14 < Kahvi> Is it noticeably more efficient to implement caching of data
instead of letting Linux' disk caching do the job?
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13:32 < wrtp> Kahvi: depends totally on what you're doing
13:32 < jessta> Kahvi: depends what you mean by efficient
13:35 < uriel> Kahvi: usually letting the kerne's cache do most of the work
is very good
13:35 < uriel> but depends on how your data is structured
13:35 < uriel> but that is one of the greatest advantages of using the file
system as your database storage layer
13:36 < Kahvi> It's simple xml file and reading like 5-10 fields of data.
13:36 < uriel> if you use directories and file paths as a look up mechanism,
it is ridiculously fast and very powerful (specially if your data is hierarchical
in any whay, which is a pain in other kinds of storage systems)
13:36 < wrtp> Kahvi: how many times a second are you going to do it?
13:37 < uriel> or more importantly: are you seeing any real performance
issues without a cache?
13:37 < uriel> if so, profile, and figure out if io, parsing, or anything
else is the bottleneck
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13:38 < uriel> caches can cause all kinds of annoying headaches, they are
very useful, but don't add them unless you are sure you need them
13:38 < wrtp> "there's no such thing as a simple cache bug" - rob pike (or
something like that)
13:39 < Kahvi> Okay, so in general it's not worth implementing caching
unless it really becomes a bottleneck?
13:39 < uriel> Kahvi: exactly
13:40 < wrtp> caching is an optimisation.  POITROAE.
13:40 < wrtp> and you wouldn't want to be evil :-)
13:41 < uriel> and caching is a particularly costly optimization, both in
terms of complexity/bugs and resources
13:41 < uriel> so often you can end up making things worse by adding caches
where they are not needed
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14:56 < moraes> this is a kinda funny tread
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/ffa1c12a24ef8c5c/e12a9d162297a3fb
14:56 < moraes> the guy doesn't stop talking
14:57 < moraes> then someone asks him to make a summary in a couple of
paragraphs and he sends another huge email.  :P
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15:03 < uriel> oh, forgot about Qtvali!
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15:04 < wrtp> i remember him
15:05 < wrtp> he went away eventually - some people are all or nothing
15:05 < jessta> it's nice that the mailing list has contained far few people
wanting to completely change the language recently
15:06 < moraes> wrtp, you asked a summary.
15:07 < moraes> :)
15:08 < wrtp> oh yeah, so i did :-)
15:08 < moraes> wrtp, the new router is now called ServeMux.  and it is a
superset of http.ServeMux.
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15:08 < wrtp> moraes: cool
15:08 < moraes> do you think this is horrible to do?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7052693/how-to-get-the-name-of-a-function-in-go/7053871#7053871
15:09 < wrtp> yes!
15:09 < moraes> haha, i guesses so
15:09 < moraes> *guessed
15:09 < aiju> seems okay to me
15:09 < wrtp> well, unless you're just using it for debugging!
15:09 < moraes> no.
15:09 < moraes> that was not the plan
15:10 < aiju> world domination is
15:10 < moraes> the plan was to guess the name of a handler if it is not
explicitly defined
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15:10 < wrtp> why do you need the name of a handler?
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15:11 < moraes> because...  urls are build-able.  and need a name for that.
15:12 < moraes> unless i could use a function as a map key.
15:12 < moraes> :)
15:12 < wrtp> moraes: you can
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15:12 < moraes> damn!
15:12 < cag00n> Hi
15:12 < moraes> thought it would be absurd.
15:12 < moraes> well then i can use the handler itself.
15:13 < wrtp> moraes: but i still don't quite understand why you need a
handler name for buildable URLs
15:13 < wrtp> does the name of the handler end up in the URL?
15:13 < wrtp> cag00n: hi
15:13 < moraes> wrtp, not necessarily name.  i need to know whiuch route
needs to be built.
15:13 < moraes> cag00n, hi.
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15:14 < moraes> routes are (now) referenced by name.  could be by handler
too.
15:14 < wrtp> moraes: why not pass something into the handler that enables
URL building
15:14 < wrtp> then the handler uses that to build the url
15:14 < wrtp> so no magic needed to learn which route needs to be built
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15:15 < moraes> it is not magic at all.  it is explicit.
15:15 < wrtp> but i think i'm probably misunderstanding here
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15:16 < wrtp> i think i don't understand how your URL building works
15:16 < wrtp> is the idea that you specify a handler and some arguments and
it returns a URL built for you?
15:16 < moraes> yes
15:16 < moraes> it reverses registered urls
15:17 < moraes> you ppoint to a 'route' and pass some arguments and it
returns a URL.
15:17 < wrtp> you need the possibility to name a route too
15:18 < moraes> which route you 're pointing to can be defined a) by name b)
by handler
15:18 < wrtp> because several routes might use the same handler function
15:18 < moraes> can't think in other ways, i usually use names
15:18 < moraes> yeah
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15:18 < wrtp> maybe it's best just to always require a name
15:19 < moraes> and there is where i used name guessing when it is not
explicit
15:19 < wrtp> if you require it to be explicit, there's no need
15:19 < moraes> well.  it'd be a little sugar to not require it.
15:20 < wrtp> and if someone *really* wants to make it automatic, they could
always use fmt.Sprintf("%p", handler) as the name :-)
15:20 < moraes> so.  why you think it is horrible?
15:20 < wrtp> the automatic name finding?
15:20 < moraes> yes
15:20 < wrtp> because nothing else works that way
15:20 < moraes> ok
15:21 < wrtp> and it blesses the current way that FuncForPC().Name works,
which might change in the future
15:21 < wrtp> it's a cool trick though
15:22 < moraes> fmt.Sprintf("%p", handler) isn't helpful
15:22 < moraes> it is not a meaningful name
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15:23 < wrtp> doesn't need to be meaningful
15:23 < moraes> it does as you'll use it in templates and code.
15:23 < moraes> :-/
15:23 < wrtp> if you register the function with that name, you can get it
back again
15:23 < moraes> not requiring a name makes registering routes kinda pretty:
15:23 < moraes> mux := NewServeMux()
15:23 < moraes> mux.HandleMultiRoute([]Route{
15:23 < moraes> {"/some/path/1", SomeHandler1},
15:23 < moraes> {"/some/path/2", SomeHandler2},
15:23 < moraes> })
15:23 < moraes> sorry.  :)
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15:24 < moraes> ah i see.
15:24 < moraes> would need an extra map then.
15:25 < wrtp> but it's quite common in my experience to wrap a handler in a
closure
15:25 < wrtp> e.g.  mux.HandleRoute("/some/path/1",
handleErrors(someHandler1))
15:25 < wrtp> and then the name trick wouldn't work
15:25 < moraes> ah
15:26 < moraes> wsgi middleware, go-style
15:26 < wrtp> BTW, i wouldn't bother adding sugar for adding multiple routes
at once
15:26 < wrtp> moraes: yeah
15:26 < wrtp> moraes: see the video of adg's talk at google IO for an
example
15:27 < wrtp> ("real world Go", i think)
15:27 < moraes> i will.
15:28 < moraes> wrtp, bad idea if you can register some general purpose
error handlers in the mux
15:28 < moraes> ?
15:28 < moraes> like for 404 or 500
15:29 < moraes> well.  easy to work around it anyway.
15:29 < wrtp> moraes: why a bad idea?
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15:29 < moraes> i'm asking if you think it is.
15:29 < wrtp> it's fairly unusual
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15:30 < moraes> wrtp, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdJsBhL0ZeE
15:30 < wrtp> because the whole point of a handler is you're handling
something known, but an error is usually given for something unknown
15:30 < moraes> found the real one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDVRowyUQA
15:30 < wrtp> lol
15:34 < wrtp> moraes: sorry wrong talk
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15:34 < wrtp> moraes: this is the one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i0hat7pdpk
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15:36 < moraes> ah i even watched that one
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15:36 < wrtp> moraes: look at around 10:18
15:36 < wrtp> is where he talks about generalised error handling
15:36 < moraes> is it the moustache one?
15:36 < wrtp> yeah
15:36 < wrtp> anyway, gotta go
15:36 < moraes> man i found it so boring.  sorry.
15:36 < moraes> ok.  :P
15:37 < wrtp> it has some nice tricks in it
15:37 < wrtp> just look at the slides
15:37 < moraes> i'll see it with other eyes now.
15:37 < wrtp> then you can avoid the tedium
15:38 < wrtp> http://golang.org/doc/talks/io2011/Writing_Web_Apps_in_Go.pdf
15:38 < moraes> thanks a lot, man.  :)
15:38 < wrtp> np
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15:44 < uriel> is the OSCON talk online yet?
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16:46 < aiju> http://pastie.org/2371134
16:46 < aiju> random numbers with Go ;P
16:47 < KirkMcDonald> That is witty.
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17:16 < erus`> aiju:
17:16 < erus`> what does select do their
17:16 < erus`> send without blocking?
17:16 < aiju> just send on one of them
17:16 < aiju> using a pseudorandom choice
17:16 < erus`> :|
17:17 < erus`> why?
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17:18 < aiju> just using the first one would have been too boring
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17:58 < uriel> kuroneko: do you guys have other Go projects in the pipeline
after Orchestra?
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19:55 < Jamra> How would one go about implementing the equivalence of a
static class variable such as a node count of a tree in golang?  I am finding
difficulty implementing data structures in golang.
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19:56 < Sh4rK> hi!
19:56 < Sh4rK> how can I print the address of a struct?
19:56 < aiju> why would you do that?
19:56 < aiju> you could use unsafe.Pointer
19:56 < Sh4rK> to graph a tree
19:58 < Sh4rK> thanks
19:58 < Sh4rK> it works
19:58 < Sh4rK> and how to format it to decimal?
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20:02 < zozoR> Jamra, why does it have to be static?
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20:03 < Sh4rK> got it
20:03 < Jamra> zozoR: It does not have to be static, but I am struggling
with the implementation of basic data structures.  The static variable is what I
used to use in order to keep statistics.
20:03 < zozoR> weird
20:03 < zozoR> stop that then
20:03 < zozoR> :D
20:04 < zozoR> use a struct that has the statitisc and then it has a member
that points to the first whatever in your tree
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20:05 < |Craig|> Jamra: if you really want that, you can use package level
variables, though as zozoR says, there are nicer solutions
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20:10 < qeed> how do you watch a file in golang?
20:10 < qeed> for any changes
20:10 < Jamra> zozoR: Thanks
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20:10 < KBme> with a loop i guess?
20:10 < qeed> anything like select?
20:11 < KBme> or with inotify which isn't portable
20:11 < KBme> err
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20:15 < Sh4rK> bye
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20:21 < Jamra> zozoR: I was planning on using statistics such as the count
of nodes in a tree.  In order to implement that, I would need to pass in a
statistics struct where the nodeID or nodeCount variable is held.  Pointing to the
root would not allow the root to access the statistics struct.  Is that what you
meant?
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20:28 < zozoR> Jamra, the "main" struct having the pointer to root, is the
root
20:29 < zozoR> maybe i dont know enough about tree structures
20:29 < zozoR> making double linked list, i used a struct List and a struct
Node, methods attached to List, and List had a counter.  the nodes where just
nodes
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20:30 < zozoR> dont know if that helps you though
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20:33 < Jamra> Yes it does.  I was using an unattached method, which is why
I was confused.
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20:35 < zozoR> :P
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21:02 < knowmercy> awesome work so far on the openbsd port
21:03 < knowmercy> I really hope the last parts are done soon :)
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 15 00:00:20 2011