--- Log opened Wed Aug 31 00:00:10 2011
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01:04 < kuroneko> morning all
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01:41 < brandini> just headed to bed :)
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02:23 < vsmatck> Enjoyable parser demo.  Gave me some ideas.
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03:53 < str1ngs> ptrb: saw that.  good reason for it not to work :P
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06:57 < moraes> go'od morning.
06:57 < kahvi> Morning
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07:14 < moraes> so what's up?
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07:19 < str1ngs> pondering a better way to do this .
https://gist.github.com/f469a3246c514a3fbb7c thats whats up :p
07:21 < uriel> wow, are the anti-go trolls in reddit on holiday:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/jzgqd/lexical_scanning_in_go_rob_pike_video_of_the_talk/
?
07:23 < moraes> yay, fun!  lets read.
07:24 < moraes> uriel, http://gorilla-web.appspot.com/ =D
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07:27 < str1ngs> moraes: you know when I mentioned to you about the static
godoc generator.  I almosted mentioned gopkgdoc until I noticed you where hosting
a google code.  I guess you just mirror the repo?
07:27 < moraes> str1ngs, you are you
07:27 < moraes> i was wondering because of your github avatar
07:28 < moraes> str1ngs, initially i mirrored repo in github.  but now i
created a hacked gopkgdoc version that posts generated docs.
07:29 < moraes> i don't want to keep github mirror.
07:30 < str1ngs> ah nice
07:30 < moraes> godoc should have an option
--generate-docs-here=/path/to/static/docs
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07:31 < str1ngs> I think you can get around it with -html and maybe
-templates
07:31 < moraes> rather than serving directly.  it is just a more natural
use.
07:32 < moraes> -html won't generate a tree.
07:32 < str1ngs> or table of contents I think
07:32 < ww> «What happens if I change every occurence, in every article, of
“George Osborne” to “George Osborne (18th Baronet of Ballintaylor)”.  Or “UK
citizen” to “UK subject”.»
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07:33 < ww> argh.  sorry.  cut-and-paste fail
07:33 < ww> fwiw that was about this:
http://www.techbelly.com/2011/08/18/browser-as-a-weapon-in-a-guerilla-war/
07:33 < moraes> heh
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07:56 < moraes> i'll submit an idea to xkcd.  first square, dude says: "I
experience big doubts about Go as a modern programming language".  second square:
silence.  third square, second dude says: "Did you start to learn Haskell?".
07:56 < moraes> (laughs)
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08:01 < xyproto> I like Haskell.  It is modern.  And, like all
horizon-videning activities, it is painful to program in.
08:01 < xyproto> With Python, Go, C and Haskell one can cover a lot of
ground.
08:02 < vegai> those four overlap heavily
08:03 < adamhassel> Duh.  They're programming languages...
08:03 < vegai> then again, that doesn't matter
08:03 < adamhassel> ;)
08:03 < vegai> after about a decade of trying to figure out Haskell, I think
I'm prepared to stop trying
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08:08 < xyproto> vegai: how much would you have to figure out to be happy?
Do you measure it in what kinds of programs you could write, or if you truly
understand the monadic-stuff and lambda calculus?
08:08 < str1ngs> vegai: I use http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Yi to test my
aur helper.  works great for that :P
08:09 < str1ngs> vegai: 45 haskell depends later is a good workout imo.
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08:10 < vegai> xyproto: I figured all that pretty well.  What I didn't
figure out was why I should be using Haskell instead of something else
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08:10 < vegai> I've actually written production software in it
08:10 < vegai> even used Arrows once, *gasp*
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08:14 < xyproto> vegai: :) I ended up with the same conclusion, even though
my understanding of Haskell is probably shallower than yours, as I never dvelved
properly into lambda calculus.
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08:15 < xyproto> vegai: Which language would you use for programming with a
lot of maths and algorithms, instead of Haskell?
08:18 < uriel> pen and paper
08:19 < vegai> lot of maths and algorithms, I might go for Haskell actually
08:20 < vegai> or perhaps I would go to my boss and ask him why he's making
me do things that I clearly suck in :P
08:21 < vegai> "lot of maths and algorithms" covers like 1% of the whole
field, though
08:21 < vegai> might be the most interesting 1%, but still
08:26 < valentin> lack of generics AND method overloading leads to painful
situations such as this : https://gist.github.com/1183070
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08:35 < valentin> code duplication can be avoided (see
multiple_sorts_clean.go) but with more "ceremony" in implementation
08:40 < xyproto> uriel: it's hard to test code on a sheet of paper.  It's
hard to run it too.
08:41 < xyproto> vegai: if think I would consider Haskell for that too
08:43 < vegai> project euler, as far as I've seen, consists on problems that
Haskell is almost a DSL for :P
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08:49 < moraes> hm, i should start flexing my go muscles with project euler.
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08:53 < erus`> go BigNum was helpful with project euler
08:53 < erus`> i did them in haskell too :)
09:03 < smw> erus`, how do you read in a bignum with scanner?
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09:06 < mpl> uriel: yo.  dunno if it's worth the trouble (mainly because
it's still in its infancy, and not go specific), but in case you want to add it to
your editors page on cat-v, i'm doing this for acme:
https://github.com/mpl/gofinder
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09:17 < uriel> mpl: cool, I might add it to my acme page :)
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09:20 < mpl> uriel: between that and xplor I'm starting to have decent tools
to find my way through various code messes at the same time in acme :)
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seconds]
09:24 < uriel> mpl: very nice
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09:32 < sinclair> Hello guys.  I was looking at Go. Go looks like such an
ugly language!  Thoughts?
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09:33 < xyproto> sinclair: beauty is in the eyes of the beholder?
09:33 < sinclair> xyproto: i suppose so
09:33 < xyproto> sinclair: and, it has few keywords and paranthesis.
Minimalism can be pretty.
09:33 < nsf> sinclair: name a pretty language then
09:34 < nsf> python?  ruby?  C++?
09:34 < nsf> haskell?
09:34 < nsf> lisp?
09:34 < nsf> :)
09:34 < sinclair> C# is quite nice
09:34 < sinclair> (under mono...of course)
09:34 < nsf> I don't like C#
09:35 < nsf> public static void main()
09:35 < nsf> vs.
09:35 < nsf> func main()
09:35 < sinclair> vs
09:35 < sinclair> def main():
09:35 < xyproto> HQ9+ is the only pretty language I know
09:35 < nsf> sinclair: exactly, python is prettier
09:35 < sinclair> C# is a nice language, but im not getting into a language
war
09:35 < ww> is english an ugly language?
09:36 < nsf> sinclair: I don't want to start a language war
09:36 < BizarreCake> Is there any way to poll sockets in Go?
09:36 < nsf> I'm just trying to understand what is "pretty" in your
understanding
09:36 < sinclair> nsf: doesn't matter
09:36 < BizarreCake> There's not poll or select in the net package :/
09:36 < ww> maybe symmetry has something to do with prettiness
09:36 < sinclair> so, why Go over Java and Python?  just performance?
09:36 < moraes> sinclair, i was kidding.  you should not post that troll
line.
09:36 < BizarreCake> I need a way to determine whether a socket has incoming
data.
09:36 < ww> (((((())))))
09:37 < sinclair> hahaha
09:37 < nsf> sinclair: ok, it's much easier to write Go than Java and Python
09:37 < xyproto> sinclair: C# has its merits, but it's not natively
compiled, has 77 keywords (as opposed to just 25 for Go), and has a huge API (too
large)
09:37 < nsf> and I can't prove that
09:37 < nsf> you have to try
09:37 < nsf> write a small app in Go
09:37 < nsf> and see
09:37 < sinclair> well, LINQ is a big plus for C#
09:38 < sinclair> LINQ over the data store would be really nice
09:38 < sinclair> probably wouldn't work in a lot of cases tho
09:38 < moraes> it's much easier to write Go than Java and Python, once you
understand the pointer magic
09:38 < moraes> fixed.
09:38 < uriel> nsf: it is also much easier to *read* Go than Java (or even
Python)
09:38 < uriel> most importantly, it is much easier to *reason* about what Go
code does
09:38 < sinclair> range comparisons for example would fail
09:38 < nsf> uriel: yes
09:39 < nsf> ok, by writing I meant the whole development process
09:39 < nsf> which includes writing, reading and changing the code
09:39 < sinclair> tbh, i've gone the python route on appengine, and i do
find python a little hard to debug, fast to write, hard to write lots of it
09:39 < sinclair> Java would seem more sensible
09:40 < sinclair> but there is something about the dynamic nature of python
that makes it a win for me
09:40 < sinclair> Go looks interesting, native compilation has to be a big
draw card right?
09:40 < moraes> sinclair, try app engine go sdk.
09:40 < xyproto> sinclair: "a big plus" is relative.  Is business-apps a
goal?  What is the goal?
09:41 < nsf> sinclair: what kind of apps are you writing?
09:41 < xyproto> sinclair: the dynaamic nature of python is "a win" the
first 1000 lines of code
09:41 < sinclair> xyproto: large, data driven RIA applications for business,
very SOA
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09:41 < moraes> it automagically compiles the app on changes (to use the
hyped word "automagically").
09:41 < nsf> service-oriented works fine in Go
09:42 < nsf> at least it should
09:42 < sinclair> xyproto: depends on how you use python, i found the
general rule is to, tread carefully
09:42 < xyproto> what nfs said
09:42 < nsf> nsf*
09:42 < BizarreCake> So...  any way to poll sockets in Go?
09:43 < xyproto> sinclair: treading carefully is easy to say, but when there
are several developers involved, or "emergency fixes", it's horrible
09:43 < nsf> BizarreCake: Go magically pulls them for you, just use 'net'
package and one goroutine per connection scheme
09:43 < xyproto> sinclair: the dynamic nature allows for so many potentially
undiscovered runtime issues
09:44 < sinclair> yeah, that's python i suppose, for teams of developers on
a large project, i would imagine Java being a natural choice, but i say this
without knowing too much about Go
09:44 < nsf> BizarreCake: if you take a look at the internals of the 'net'
package it's rather complex
09:44 < str1ngs> go is magical !
09:44 < moraes> sinclair, go eliminates compile time errors from your app.
this is a win over python.
09:44 < nsf> polls*
09:44 < BizarreCake> But, then I would need to have one goroutine for
reading and one for writing..
09:44 < xyproto> sinclair: not that they are not there in other languages,
but they are more present in python than in Go
09:44 < BizarreCake> Isn't that wasteful?
09:44 < nsf> BizarreCake: people do that in Go
09:44 < moraes> that said, go libraries are still infant.
09:45 < sinclair> xyproto: are you thinking about duck typing, or some other
aspect of dynamic typing, or something else?
09:45 < nsf> BizarreCake: one goroutine is 4kb static overhead (basic size
of a stack when it's allocated)
09:45 < BizarreCake> For a program with over a hundred sockets, that would
require 200 goroutines!
09:45 < nsf> BizarreCake: that's ok
09:45 < xyproto> sinclair: Go has very nice modularity, an appropriate dose
of strictness, no whitespace vs tabs discussions due to a tool that defines what's
standard and had the problems of C++ for large projects in mind when being written
09:45 < BizarreCake> Although some multiplexing is done, they're still
threads.
09:45 < moraes> xyproto, undiscovered compile time issues.
09:45 < nsf> BizarreCake: 200000 of goroutines might work
09:45 < BizarreCake> :o
09:46 < BizarreCake> They're so cheap??
09:46 < nsf> but it will eat a lot of ram
09:46 < BizarreCake> like in Erlang?
09:46 < nsf> I said earlier
09:46 < nsf> 4k per goroutine
09:46 < fluffle> valentin: https://gist.github.com/1183191
09:46 < xyproto> moraes: true, the libraries are new, but several are based
on years of unix and even plan9 experience
09:46 < nsf> 200000 will eat about 1-2 gigs of ram
09:46 < nsf> :D
09:46 < BizarreCake> lol
09:46 < fluffle> valentin: generics and templates are less useful when you
have first-class functions
09:47 < BizarreCake> But, on the windows port, every goroutine is a pthread.
09:47 < moraes> xyproto, i mean there are many tools that people are used to
for web development that you'd need to code yourself in go
09:47 < BizarreCake> That surely won't scale well in Windows.
09:47 < nsf> BizarreCake: I don't think it's true
09:47 < xyproto> moraes: yes, like pdf-handling for web apps
09:47 < BizarreCake> It's impossible to have over a thousand threads in a
single process
09:47 < nsf> only gccgo uses one thread per goroutine
09:47 < BizarreCake> It'll kill the operating system
09:47 < BizarreCake> Yes
09:48 < BizarreCake> that's what I said
09:48 < BizarreCake> Only the Windows port.
09:48 < nsf> but gc compiler works on windows as well
09:48 < moraes> xyproto, we'll gradually fix this
09:48 < BizarreCake> ? It does?  :o
09:48 < nsf> yes
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09:48 < xyproto> moraes: yes :)
09:48 < nsf> but it's rather hard to compile and use it
09:48 < nsf> because it relies a lot on unix stuff (like make, bash, etc.)
09:48 < BizarreCake> Oh yeah, I did compile gc for linux.
09:48 < BizarreCake> So it's probably possible for windows.
09:49 < nsf> but it works on windows too
09:49 < nsf> there are builds somewhere I'm sure
09:49 < nsf> http://code.google.com/p/gomingw/downloads/list
09:50 < nsf> but of course you also need a build system probably
09:50 < nsf> and I don't know what to suggest here for windows
09:51 < nsf> something pythonish maybe, I don't know..  waf or scons
09:57 < nsf> oh well
09:57 < nsf> and another major issue with gc on windows
09:57 < nsf> is cgo
09:57 < nsf> the tool which most C bindings use
09:57 < nsf> it relies on gcc
09:57 < nsf> so..  in general if you want to use gc on windows
09:58 < nsf> cygwin is the way to go
09:58 < nsf> I guess :)
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09:59 < BizarreCake> Thanks :3
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10:22 < moraes> hey.  quick question.  i'm lost with crypto.  want to
encrypt some data to be sent over http.  should i use AES?
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10:35 < valentin> fluffle : seems better, but such a facility should be
provided by pkg/sort
10:36 < valentin> ...  if possible
10:36 < fluffle> why?
10:37 < fluffle> pkg/sort doesn't know how you want your arbitrary data
sorted, but it provides an interface so you can tell it
10:38 < gobeginner> moraes: why not just use https to begin with?  does the
data need to be encrypted once delivered?
10:39 < moraes> gobeginner, no.
10:40 < moraes> gobeginner, it's a "secure cookie" library and i want to
offer the option to encrypt it (or simply hmac it, but then data is exposed, which
is fine in some situations)
10:40 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by
peer]
10:40 < valentin> but it should be more flexible if this interface was
splitted into : type ShufflableCollection { Len() int; Swap(i, j int) } ; type
Comparator interface { Less(a, b int) bool } ; Interface { ShufflableCollection;
Comparator }
10:40 < moraes> so it'll have hmac/aes
10:42 < valentin> then you could define func quickSortBy(s
ShufflableCollection, func less(i, j int)bool ){ ...  }
10:42 < valentin> but i'm not sure of all implications
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10:44 < kuroneko> moraes: just support the optional use of the
crypto/cipher.Block interface.
10:44 < kuroneko> if it's just a library
10:44 < kuroneko> and let the implementor worry about that.
10:45 < moraes> kuroneko, good advice.  will take a look.
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10:45 < gobeginner> moraes: I take it there is real data in the cookie then,
not just a hash.  I'd store a random salt along with encrypted payload if it is
encrypted.
10:45 < fluffle> valentin: that sounds like a plausible approach, as long as
you don't break backwards compatibility with the current pkg/sort api i'm sure the
go devs would consider a patch
10:46 < gobeginner> is guarding against hijacking of the encrypted cookie
passed over http in scope for your library?
10:47 < moraes> yes
10:47 < moraes> no, actually it is not
10:47 < moraes> only verifying it
10:47 < moraes> :-/
10:47 < moraes> for hijack guarding, use https
10:48 < kuroneko> wait, we actually are talkinga bout web cookies?
10:48 < kuroneko> let me find something to hide under until it's over.
>_<
10:49 < moraes> ah, another cookie hater to my collection.
10:49 < kuroneko> no, it's because the words 'secure' and 'cookie' don't
belong together.
10:50 < kuroneko> in this context
10:50 < kuroneko> you make cookies secure through the use of strong random
generation, and by enforcing secure transports (https)
10:50 < kuroneko> and never storing real data in the cookie itself
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10:51 < kuroneko> [ie: value in the cookie must be oblique to the data it
represents, and must be sufficiently random and sufficently long that it can't be
trivially guessed]
10:51 < moraes> the library is a generic session interface.  the most basic
session stores hmac'ed data in the cookie itself.
10:52 < kuroneko> that's trivial enough to assemble using base64 + hmac
10:52 < moraes> or it stores a random id for the backend to grab the real
data.
10:52 < moraes> trivial stuff.
10:52 < kuroneko> and you can even mix it with bson if you want non trivial
types.
10:52 < kuroneko> I guess you can make a library for it if you really want.
10:53 -!- sunfmin [~sunfmin@115.238.44.107] has quit [Quit: sunfmin]
10:54 < moraes> yep, i do want.
10:54 < kuroneko> I don't think it's honestly all that hard to do thanks to
go's reflection and how well the marshalling/encoding stuff has been put together
10:54 < moraes> there're tricky parts.  a library might be useful.
10:54 < kuroneko> in the client-side hmac'd store model, it's just a matter
of plugging the bits together
10:55 < kuroneko> in a more traditional server-side session store, well,
everybody's going to want to use their application database
10:55 < moraes> yes.  i want to do this so that others won't have to realize
that they just can't hmac and be vulnerable to byte shifting etc.
10:57 < moraes> kuroneko, i won't implement any stores besides basic hmac'ed
cookies (lie: i'll actually implement two for app engine memcache / datastore)
10:57 < moraes> but there'll be some infrastructure for custom stores
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11:02 < moraes> eeeks
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/msg/feefcf336ce30bcb
11:02 < moraes> there're always trick parts
11:02 < moraes> pure fun!
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11:05 < Argue> a slice taken from a slice refers to the same slice right?
11:05 -!- nekoh [~nekoh@dslb-088-069-158-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined
#go-nuts
11:06 < exch> It refers to the same underlying data
11:06 < Argue> so if i have a = someSlice; b := a[5:10]; and the reference
to a is eventually lost, do the first 5 elements get garbage collected?
11:06 < kuroneko> hmm.  I suspect not - but I dont' know the magic of the gc
stuff
11:06 < exch> Good question.  But I doubt it.  Since the underlying memory
block was allocated as a single chunk.
11:07 < exch> The slice is just a 'window' into that memory block
11:07 < Argue> Guess I should allocate a new one to be safe.
11:08 < kuroneko> gad.  reading through golang-nuts and now I remember why I
don't receive the digests
11:09 < Argue> ah, it says here that you are correct
http://blog.golang.org/2011/01/go-slices-usage-and-internals.html
11:10 < kuroneko> [for all the useful traffic, there's enough that I simply
don't care about to make it Too Much Mail]
11:11 < moraes> kuroneko, i subscribe to read on the web
11:11 < kuroneko> yeah, I'm set up that way too because I don't haev the
energy to filter through the list in my inbox these days
11:11 < moraes> (most mailing lists.  so get zero distraction on mail)
11:11 < kuroneko> I guess I'm just a little burnt out after 10 years of
constant list mail
11:12 < moraes> with google groups i just subscribe to read on web.
11:12 < moraes> then i go read when i'm felling like i want to have some
fun.
11:13 < moraes> (and the new groups interface is awful.  html messages is
the only option to send messages, WYSIWYG included)
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11:14 < moraes> the new interface is WYGWYUGWT (what you get when you use
GWT)
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11:17 < BizarreCake> One thing really irritating about Go is that you can't
have two packages that import each other
11:17 < BizarreCake> D;
11:17 < BizarreCake> Any way to bypass that?
11:17 < nsf> two packages that import each other sounds like a one package
11:17 < adamhassel> Out of interest: why would you want that?
11:17 < adamhassel> Combine them to one package.
11:18 < kuroneko> BizarreCake: either you want one package, or you need more
abstraction of interfaces
11:18 < adamhassel> ...  as nsf typed faster than me :)
11:18 < BizarreCake> Why should I merge a server and a client into a single
package?
11:18 < adamhassel> BizarreCake, when they import each other, then obviously
they are both ;)
11:18 < nsf> BizarreCake: why do you want to import client to server and
server to client
11:18 < nsf> make a separate "common" package
11:18 < BizarreCake> The server needs to create the client
11:19 < BizarreCake> and the client needs to get a client list from the
server.
11:19 < nsf> which contains everything that is in common
11:21 < BizarreCake> Well, it's not just the client.  I'll have a lot more
packages importing the server, and the server will them too
11:22 < kuroneko> BizarreCake: tbh, abstract better, or factor out common
code.
11:22 < BizarreCake> will import them too*
11:22 < BizarreCake> Gets a little messy when the project grows..
11:22 < kuroneko> Does A really need to know all of the intricated details
of B? if not, interface it.
11:22 < kuroneko> do A and B share a bunch of common code to do important
things?  factor it out into common library C
11:23 < kuroneko> not being able to have circular references is a bit of a
blessing really, not actually a problem - it helps force you to make your design
suck less.
11:24 < moraes> you know one thing.  just brainstorming.  i've wanted before
to use conditional packages, to support, say, r58 and r59.  that's messy.  but its
harder to support r58 when api broke in r59.  so you have to keep 2 distributions.
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11:25 < moraes> or don't use api that broke.
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11:25 < kuroneko> vcs.  branches.
11:25 < kuroneko> as much at that approach pains me, it's the goinstall
supported way
11:26 < moraes> yeah you need to keep 2.
11:26 < BizarreCake> Well, one thing that my program tries to do is have
each client\player contain a reference to the world they're currently in.  But the
world also contains a list of all clients in it.
11:27 < BizarreCake> How can I possibly create a "common" library that'll do
that in an elegant way?
11:27 < kuroneko> that doesn't explain why the client needs to use the
server code?
11:27 < BizarreCake> The server contains a client and a world list
11:28 < BizarreCake> Which makes it more complex
11:28 < BizarreCake> And, each world contains a reference to the server.
11:28 < BizarreCake> D:
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11:29 < moraes> kuroneko, support rotating hmac keys...  there's cool stuff
to do in a session lib.
11:29 < BizarreCake> That's three packages importing each other.
11:30 < kuroneko> bizarrecake: but...  that...  just...  ugh.  >_<
11:30 < BizarreCake> brb
11:30 < kuroneko> Why does the world need to reference both the client *and*
the server?
11:33 < kuroneko> if you're storing state, decouple state from
communication, and move client state, server state and world state into a common
library
11:33 < kuroneko> but honestly, it sounds a bit like you're trying to make
the same lump of code solve too much
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11:40 < Argue> if I have this code here http://pastebin.com/h25FJHtp
11:40 < Argue> how do I make the second case execute only of myList has
something in it?
11:40 < Argue> *only if
11:40 < Argue> apart from actually doing a check outside the select
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11:52 * nsf hates adobe flash
11:52 < nsf> no free space in /tmp
11:52 < nsf> == no youtube videos
11:52 < nsf> :\
11:53 < nsf> and I have 2 gigs of free ram
11:53 < nsf> :\
11:54 < gobeginner> I'm trying out gocheck and have a couple of tests
succesfully using it but I'm getting an error out of 'goinstall -nuke=true -v
launchpad.net/gocheck'
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11:55 < niemeyer> gobeginner: What's the error?
11:55 < gobeginner> "ERROR: Requested revision: 'release' does not exist in
branch" anything to worry about
11:55 < gobeginner> ?
11:55 < nsf> oh, so you guys are wondering, what my rant about adobe flash
has in common with Go, I'm trying to watch adg's talk :)
11:55 < nsf> :D
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12:00 < moraes> nsf, just for fun, add a temperature monitoring widget to
your machine, then watch it when you are running flash
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12:09 < kahvi> I always thought the videos are only in ram unless running
out of it :o
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12:20 < nsf> moraes: yeah, I know that thing about flash, tried playing
flash games on my netbook
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12:30 * kuroneko is currently tackling gamma correction and image resampling for
fun.
12:33 < nsf> kahvi: exactly, html5 video are in ram, but adobe flash always
saves them
12:33 < nsf> in a temporary file which it deletes immediately
12:33 < nsf> but you can still access it using 'lsof' and /proc
12:33 < nsf> :D
12:34 < vegai> that's perhaps my favourite abuse trick
12:34 < nsf> :D
12:34 < kahvi> :D
12:34 < vegai> we have a db at work that does that regurarily
12:34 < vegai> and we usually run it on solaris...  where /tmp is usually
backed by ram
12:35 < vegai> 128G ram used by nothing visible, nice
12:35 < vegai> (slight exaggeration, but still :)
12:37 < kahvi> I was happy about 2 gb spare ram I could use for ramdisk a
while ago
12:38 < kahvi> Then I realized I don't actually need it much at all :/
12:40 < kuroneko> gah.  sRGB just ruined my night.
12:40 < nsf> weirdly enough my /tmp is not on a tmpfs
12:40 < nsf> for some reason
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14:15 < niemeyer> gobeginner: No, nothing to worry about
14:16 < gobeginner> great, thank you
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16:24 < kahvi> Can I build gc on Windows using cygwin?
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16:25 < skelterjohn> mingw is better for this
16:25 < skelterjohn> as in, installing mingw and running ./make.bash works
16:25 < skelterjohn> a
16:26 < skelterjohn> and with cygwin i think it's a bit harder
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16:41 < kahvi> skelterjohn, Do I need only the mingw tools or msys too?
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16:41 < skelterjohn> i don't remember
16:41 < skelterjohn> but try with just mingw
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17:18 < moraes> niemeyer, you know what could be cool?
http://r58.goneat.org/ etc
17:19 < skelterjohn> asking a lot of the poor guy :)
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17:20 < moraes> i know :)
17:20 < moraes> if godoc generated static docs...
17:20 < niemeyer> moraes: It'd be nice indeed..  I just need some additional
hundreds of dollars every month to fund it
17:20 < moraes> we would not need to start server to read old docs
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17:21 * moraes starts r58 godoc server
17:23 < moraes> niemeyer, sending you a check
17:27 < skelterjohn> can't you run a single godoc server that serves more
than one set of docs?
17:28 < moraes> once i am a go ninja, i'll go and patch godoc to generate a
static tree!
17:29 < moraes> that's the thing.
17:29 < moraes> no stinky server.
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17:31 < uwedeportivo> does anyone know which go appengine sdk
http://code.google.com/p/cuddle/ requires ? doesn't seem to be the sdk that's
available right now
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17:33 < str1ngs> version 2 based on andrew's talk
17:33 < str1ngs> which is r58 iirc
17:33 < moraes> latest then
17:33 < moraes> the sdk ships go
17:34 < moraes> latest:
http://code.google.com/p/cuddle/source/browse/app.yaml
17:36 < uwedeportivo> yeah, i think the latest go appengine sdk you can
download is still version 1
17:36 < uwedeportivo> i just did and it insisted on having api version 1 in
the yaml
17:36 < uwedeportivo> and of course i get compile errors
17:37 < moraes> nope
17:37 < moraes> latest is api 2
17:37 < uwedeportivo> i fixed a couple but don't know how many more there
are
17:38 < uwedeportivo> i went here
http://code.google.com/appengine/downloads.html
17:38 < uwedeportivo> and got 1.5.3
17:38 < uwedeportivo> the version in that package is 1
17:38 < niemeyer> moraes: No stinky server == no stinky search
17:38 < uwedeportivo> is there another link i can go to ?
17:38 < moraes> 1.5.3 is api 2
17:39 < uwedeportivo> release: "1.5.0"
17:39 < uwedeportivo> timestamp: 1301428458
17:39 < uwedeportivo> api_versions: ['1']
17:40 < uwedeportivo> hm, wonder why it says 1.5.0
17:40 < moraes> aha!
17:40 < str1ngs> 1.5..  round down.  1.5.3 round up
17:40 < moraes> got you.
17:40 < moraes> you have wrong aliases
17:41 < uwedeportivo> ok, true, my bad
17:41 < uwedeportivo> figured it out, never mind
17:42 < uwedeportivo> got the right zip now
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17:50 < moraes> the search is pretty nice indeed.  i never realized that
http://golang.org/search?q=foo
17:50 < moraes> what kind of index it uses?
17:50 < moraes> it is fast
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19:42 < gattuso> hi
19:42 < gattuso> how to append an element to a slice?
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19:45 < lazy1> http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#append
19:45 < str1ngs> gattuso: some more slice tricks.
http://code.google.com/p/go-wiki/wiki/SliceTricks
19:45 < str1ngs> I would read append first like lazy1 suggested though.
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20:20 < valentin_> does someone know a way to gather functions defined in a
given package reflectively (if such a thing is possible) ?
20:23 < str1ngs> including non public ones ?
20:23 < str1ngs> actually can you give more context.
20:27 < valentin_> lets say i write a unit test for : func foo (a, b string)
int { ...  }
20:28 < valentin_> i first create a struct : type fooTest struct { a, b
string; expected int }
20:29 < valentin_> then put a bunch of such structs in a slice : fooTests
[]fooTest{}
20:29 < skelterjohn> i don't believe you can use reflect to list all
functions in a package
20:29 < skelterjohn> but it's easily done with go/parser if you have the
source
20:30 < skelterjohn> and there are go/ast importers out there that can take
the .a file and get that information, too
20:30 < skelterjohn> if you don't have the source
20:30 < skelterjohn> but that is a bit more involved
20:31 < valentin_> and finally write my test which only iterates over
fooTests and test : foo(test.a, test.b) == test.expected
20:32 < remy_o> valentin_: hum, do you actually want a struct {
Function(string,string) int; a, b string; expected int } ?
20:32 <+iant> valentin_: do you know about http://golang.org/cmd/gotest/ ?
20:32 < valentin_> so the only thing i do that is "foo-specific" is to
populate fooTests with relevant values
20:32 < remy_o> so that the test is: for _, test := range tests {
assert(test.func(test.a, test.b) == test.expected)) }
20:32 < ericvh> nice.  those are the same guys that make the science!
t-shirts I have.
20:33 < ericvh> *oop.  sorry, wrong channel
20:33 < valentin_> iant yes, and i appears that all my Test* functions have
quite the same body
20:33 < valentin_> (it appears)
20:36 < valentin_> heres a typical source_test.go of mine :
http://pastie.org/2461909
20:37 < valentin_> you'll notice that the func have the same structure, so i
try to figure out how i could factorize them
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20:39 < remy_o> write a single function
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20:41 < valentin_> how ?
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21:36 < prudhvi> just, wondering if there is any other way of string
formatting for say "/txt/%s/p/%s" to be like "/txt/${path}/p/${ext}",path,ext ?
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21:37 < exch> Not unless you write it yourself
21:37 < prudhvi> or something like how ruby does
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21:39 < prudhvi> What is your suggestion for say i have a Path string that
changes basing on a few constraints which are stored in vairables do you think
this is a good idea fmt.Sprintf("/txt/%s/p/%s", arg1, arg2) it is highly possible
to loose the track of variables.
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21:40 < exch> Not if your variables are named adequately
21:40 < exch> I don't personally see any problem with Go's current approach,
other than the need to possibly repeat variables if you want them in a string
multiple times
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21:41 < prudhvi> ok thanks.  I wanted to see if there is a better approach
than the default one.  But, yes the default one is adequeate.
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21:57 < moraes> prudhvi, path as in url path?
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22:06 < prudhvi> moraes: thats just an example, it could be any string
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22:37 < moraes> really, some go standard package are too badass
22:37 < moraes> *packages
22:38 < moraes> i mean, really good.  at least in terms of api.
22:41 < nsf> it is
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22:43 < moraes> i love beautiful api.
22:44 < moraes> too much maybe.
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22:51 < mpl> that's what you get when some of the best existing programmers
get to work :)
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23:04 < zeebo> moraes: why did you move from github?
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23:05 < moraes> zeebo, well the original was not github.  i just dropped
github.
23:05 < moraes> i was only on github to use gopkgdoc.
23:06 < zeebo> oh alright that makes sense
23:06 < zeebo> i was looking at the context library.  i haven't checked in a
couple days but is it still globally locked?
23:07 < moraes> it is
23:07 < moraes> thats too bad?
23:08 < zeebo> i dunno.  id imagine it could severely hamper scaling to lots
of requests
23:08 < zeebo> did you consider request level locking?
23:08 < moraes> no, actually
23:08 < moraes> brad said http will have something like that
23:09 < moraes> it is needed...  too many libs wanting to set some request
state.
23:09 < zeebo> so what's the purpose of context then?
23:09 < zeebo> long term
23:09 < moraes> well, brad said that after i asked feedback.
23:10 < moraes> for now it solve a problem.  i'd leave it in mux but my
session lib wants context too, so i extracted it.
23:10 < zeebo> right.  you mind if i attempt to hack in request level
locking?  :)
23:10 < moraes> not at all :)
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23:11 < zeebo> ive never used googlecode or hg so ill probably have some
questions about getting diffs to you lol
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23:14 < moraes> he said something about he wants better names.
23:14 < moraes> i'm not sure if he referred to 'context' or 'namespace', but
probably both!
23:14 < zeebo> namespace confuses me
23:14 < moraes> 'bucket'
23:15 < moraes> it is a name i got from a python lib
23:15 < zeebo> it seems circular because a namespace points to a context
which is getting the value from the namespace map
23:15 < moraes> it created 'buckets' like that, and they were called
namespaces
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 01 00:00:22 2011