--- Log opened Wed Nov 11 00:12:35 2009
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00:12 < monteslu> vim plugin?  I'm looking for the eclipse plugin and
debugger :)
00:12 < daganev> when you compare it to javascript, you make people think
its a RIA language
00:12 < kingfishr> iant, bingo thanks
00:12 <+iant> Suhail: sure, we're aiming for both, we'll see
00:12 <+agl> monteslu: misc/vim/go.vim
00:12 < Suhail> iant: i guess I am assuming too that development in Go is
not as fast =\
00:13 <+iant> monteslu: no eclipse yet
00:13 < jcgregorio> agl: thanks, let me know if there's patches or tests you
want me to run, since the error seems to not appear consistently across all 9.04s
00:13 < monteslu> daganev, when you compare syntax?
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00:13 < Suhail> iant: props on being the only language that potentially
looks like it solves unicode issues
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00:14 < crink> hi
00:14 <+iant> Suhail: thx, two of the creators of Go invented UTF-8
00:14 < monteslu> I like that its syntax is somewhat javascripty, feels
natural when serializing to json
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00:14 < nec> is there a workaround for issue #2?
00:14 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:14 <+iant> nec: comment out the test, I guess
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00:14 -!- dsal [n=Adium@adsl-69-230-8-158.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined
00:14 <+iant> at the point of failure, the compiler and libraries have been
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00:15 <+agl> jcgregorio: thanks.  We're a little swamped at the moment and
probably won't fix it in the next couple of hours
00:15 < Suhail> tsk tsk no git repo!?
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00:16 <+iant> Suhail: code.google.com was very convenient and it uses hg,
not git; that wasn't our call, really
00:16 <+agl> Suhail: We use hg:
00:16 < jcgregorio> agl: ha, I didn't mean right now, but I'm following the
00:16 < manveru> anybody made a pkgbuild for archlinux yet?
00:16 < jfernandez> git version kthnxplz
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00:16 < sstangl> Suhail: you can use git as a frontend to hg.
00:17 < jfernandez> o rly?
00:17 < dsal> Are there known compilation issues?
00:17 < ag90> About the test commenting part.  Which file do I have to edit.
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00:18 < Suhail> iant: Go starting to make rounds at goog--I really want to
hear something that's impressive that is made in Go I guess
00:18 < vhold> Wow, I wasn't expecting so many packages in the package
documentation section..  nice..
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00:18 <+iant> ag90: src/pkg/net/net_test.go
00:19 < ag90> Got it.  Thanks
00:19 <+iant> Suhail: it's still experimental, nothing special we can share
00:20 <+agl> jcgregorio: can you paste your /etc/resolv.conf?  Is there
anything special about your DNS setup?
00:20 < Suhail> yeah i hear ya, things take time =)
00:20 < ag90> iant: I just grepped.  It's actually
00:20 <+iant> ag90: whoops, sorry about that
00:21 <+agl> iant: I'm going to disable the test and see if I can push a new
release tag.
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00:21 <+iant> agl: good thinking
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00:22 < jcgregorio> agl: http://pastebin.com/d1eab0eb0
00:22 < Kniht> should I have checked out go into $GOROOT?  (or should I set
GOROOT to where I checked it out instead of ~/go?)
00:22 < MarkBao> would it be a good idea to refer to things Go-related as
00:22 <+iant> Kniht: set GOROOT to wherever you checked it out
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00:23 < thiaguetz_> anyone having max os 10.5 issues on installation?
00:23 < jcgregorio> agl: no, nothing special about my DNS setup
00:23 < Kniht> thanks, I think I saw GOROOT=~/go and thought of some sort of
user package repository
00:23 < dsal> thiaguetz: I did it wrong initially.  It's going for me now.
00:23 < kuroneko> is the 6[glca] architecture basically ken's plan9/inferno
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00:23 <+iant> kuroneko: that is what it is based on, yes
00:24 -!- opensourcenut [n=osn@unaffiliated/opensourcenut/x-000001] has joined
00:24 < vhold> 6g's default behavior on things that seem like warnings is
interesting..  declaring and not using a variable is fatal
00:24 < vhold> Google's hard line attitude towards wasted variables!
00:24 < sstangl> hm, I wonder why rpike chose names that conflict with the
plan9 C compiler.
00:24 < kuroneko> iant: does it still ignore ABIs?  :P
00:24 <+iant> kuroneko: yes
00:24 <+iant> sstangl: they're the same names
00:25 < kuroneko> *sigh*
00:25 < sstangl> iant: I noticed.  is anyone working on a plan9 port?
00:25 <+iant> kuroneko: gccgo follows ABIs
00:25 <+iant> sstangl: good question, I don't know
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00:27 < thiaguetz_> dsal: what you did to work?
00:27 <+agl> jcgregorio: ok thanks.
00:27 < dsal> thiaguetz: Read the instructions better.  :/ You have to set
all the environment variables properly.
00:28 <+iant> biab
00:28 < thiaguetz_> dsal: i already did that.  i have some quietgcc issues
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00:28 < dsal> thiaguetz: Ah, I didn't have that.  What OS/compiler/issues?
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00:29 <+agl> jcgregorio: ag90: other folks with the net unittests issue.
The workaround is to add net to the NOTEST list in src/pkg/Makefile
00:29 < ag90> Oh ok.  Thanks
00:29 < thiaguetz_> dsal: darwin/386 - make.bash: line 20:
/Users/thiago/bin/quietgcc: No such file or directory
00:29 <+agl> thiaguetz_: you need $GOBIN in your path.
00:29 < vhold> Hmm..  what's the fastest way to read lines (newline
delimited, for example) into strings in Go ?
00:29 < jcgregorio> agl: thanks!
00:29 -!- bear [n=bear@c-71-230-97-250.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:29 <+agl> vhold: you can cast a []byte to a string
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00:30 <+agl> vhold: with bufio you can wrap the os.File such that it
supports ReadString also
00:31 < vhold> That's what I'm testing now.
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00:31 <+rsc9> sstangl: no one is working on a plan 9 port, but i'd love to
see one
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00:31 < thiaguetz_> agl: what value i can put on GOBIN ?
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00:32 < vhold> Getting about 1.21MB/sec with a simple ReadString('\n') and
fmt.Printf(s1) version of "cat"..which is surprisingly slow
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00:32 < opensourcenut> sstangl: You use plan9?  thats awesome!
00:32 < vhold> file is completely in cache..  wc -l is reading the same
thing in 250MB/sec, possibly faster
00:33 < thiaguetz> agl: what value i can put on GOBIN
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00:33 <+agl> thiaguetz: any writable directory which is in your path
00:33 < joeyadams> I tried compiling go by running the ./all.bash, but I get
a lot of these, ultimately leading to a failed build: "Makefile:5:
/home/joey/src/go/src/Make.: No such file or directory"
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00:34 < dsal> joeyadams: You need to set GOARCH:
00:34 <+agl> joeyadams: you have a bad value for GOARCH
00:35 <+agl> vhold: party that's a result of all the UTF-8 processing that
you don't see and partly that 6g generates good code, but not great code.
00:35 < thiaguetz> agl: ohhhhhhhhh i got it!  i was reading how all.bash
00:35 < joeyadams> ah, thanks
00:35 <+agl> vhold: also, fmt isn't great.
00:35 < thiaguetz> agl: now i got it!  thanks man!
00:35 <+agl> thiaguetz: no problem
00:36 -!- nddrylliog_afk is now known as nddrylliog
00:36 * joeyadams wonders if Go will be in GSoC2010
00:36 < kuroneko> looks like I'm rewriting k[acl] afterall.
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00:37 <+rsc9> vhold: essentially none of the library code has been worked on
for speed yet.
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00:38 <+agl> joeyadams: I don't know if we have any plans in that direction,
but it's not a bad idea.
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00:38 < mwarning> hello o/
00:38 < joeyadams> Is arm a big-endian platform?
00:39 < vhold> agl: is the utf8 aspect only being introduced by bufio?  Or
is that happening down at the byte level before stringification ?
00:39 <+agl> joeyadams: typically yes
00:39 < sstangl> opensourcenut: it's true :)
00:39 < kaib> joeyadams: bi-directional but 5g is little endian.
00:39 < sstangl> opensourcenut: I'm writing a driver for it now, actually.
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00:39 < joeyadams> So go hasn't been tested on big endian, then?
00:39 <+iant> vhold: the source code is UTF-8
00:39 < opensourcenut> sstangl: Plan9 is quite a difficult operating system
to learn.
00:39 < sstangl> rsc9: I will look into porting Go to plan9 after I have
some more free time to become familiar with the language.
00:40 < kuroneko> opensourcenut: dunno about that - it's different - if you
go in thinkings it's unix, you just make it harder for yourself.
00:40 < sstangl> opensourcenut: there aren't enough resources available, and
most people in my experience are afraid to ask questions.
00:40 < kaib> joeyadams: negative, all the work has been on little endian
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00:40 < sstangl> opensourcenut: but if you like asking questions, #plan9 is
friendly :)
00:40 < opensourcenut> sstangl: is it?
00:40 <+agl> vhold: certainly it's not happening at the byte level, I
suspect it's happening somewhere in there, but I would have check the sources to
be sure.
00:40 < sstangl> opensourcenut: yes, very.
00:40 < opensourcenut> sstangl: would you use plan9 on a server ?
00:40 -!- oxtail [n=oxtail@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts
00:40 < opensourcenut> *production, I mean
00:41 < kaib> joeyadams: at some point part of 5l was in big-endian but we
switched to little endian.
00:41 < sstangl> opensourcenut: I would not trust it to be secure enough to
run facing the world.
00:41 < sstangl> for internal things, it can be nice.
00:41 < opensourcenut> sstangl: but it has such interesting security
00:41 < opensourcenut> sstangl: the namespaces and such
00:41 < sstangl> opensourcenut: it's basically a special version of
00:42 < joeyadams> I got this compiling go: --- FAIL: net.TestDialError
00:42 < joeyadams> Does that mean a testcase failed?
00:42 <+iant> joeyadams: yes
00:42 <+iant> that test has failed for others as well, we're looking into it
00:42 < joeyadams> Is there a way to skip it?
00:42 < joeyadams> (and do the other tests)?
00:42 -!- Isaiah [n=Isaiah@kohana/developer/isaiah] has joined #go-nuts
00:42 <+agl> joeyadams: edit src/pkg/Makefile and add net to the NOTEST list
00:42 -!- travisbrady [n=tbrady@67-207-96-194.static.wiline.com] has joined
00:43 <+agl> joeyadams: also, you can star
00:43 < opensourcenut> agl: I'm curious, have you ever heard of the D
programing language?
00:43 <+agl> opensourcenut: yes
00:43 < opensourcenut> agl: What do you think of it?
00:43 < uriel> sstangl: #plan9 is friendly?  since when?  ;P
00:44 < Gnuget> hi i get this error
00:44 < Gnuget> make: quietgcc: Command not found
00:44 < Gnuget> =X
00:44 < Gnuget> when i are try to compile go :(
00:44 <+agl> Gnuget: you need $GOBIN in your path.
00:44 -!- mncaudill [n=nolan@67-207-138-6.slicehost.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:44 < dsal> Gnuget: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=3
00:44 < sstangl> uriel: shhh
00:44 <+iant> opensourcenut: D has different goals from Go
00:44 -!- cablehead [n=Adium@nat/slide/x-skrmzrsixmrjyxxq] has joined #go-nuts
00:45 < comatose_kid> Anyone know of a 'go-mode' for emacs?
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00:45 < dsal> comatose_kid: It comes in the source tree: misc/emacs
00:45 < comatose_kid> sweet.  thanks
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00:45 < opensourcenut> iant: Yeah like D doesn't have as good threading,
stuff liek that you mean?
00:46 <+iant> opensourcenut: D looks to me like a cleaned up C++; Go is an
attempt to build a new language from scratch
00:46 <+iant> D has lots of features that are not in Go
00:46 <+iant> I have not done any real D programming, though
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00:47 < Gnuget> awesome thx ag90 :)
00:47 < Gnuget> agl, *
00:47 < Gnuget> dsal, *
00:47 < MarkBao> lol.
00:47 < opensourcenut> iant: Go looks really interesting and cool.
00:48 < opensourcenut> iant: But the syntax is different
00:48 <+iant> opensourcenut: yep
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00:48 < Gnuget> x)
00:48 < jfernandez> compiling~!
00:49 < vhold> agl: I was able to get 250+ MB/sec switching to basic
Read/Write ..  so it's definitely bufio
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00:50 < telemachus> has anyone had problems building on osx?
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00:50 < dsal> telemachus: I did.  Works fine after following the directions
00:50 < ktistai> opensourcenut, The syntax is strange.
00:50 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v robpike] by ChanServ
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00:50 < dsymonds> osx works fine for me
00:50 < telemachus> hmm, dsal
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00:50 < bear> just tried on osx - and it failed - what "better" directions
should I follow other than what is in the "Installing Go" piece?
00:50 < MarkBao> what do you need to know, bear
00:50 < jfernandez> is there a textmate bundle for go?  :)
00:50 < ktistai> Well, I haven't seen many grand programs in Go, so oh well
00:50 < dsymonds> what's missing from those directions?
00:51 < telemachus> maybe that's it, but I'm getting test failures during
the dns library I think
00:51 < dsal> bear: Don't know without knowing how it failed.
00:51 < MarkBao> jfernandez: one would have to write one ;)
00:51 < telemachus> redoing ./all.bash now...
00:51 <+agl> bear: no better directions, but we'll help if we can.
00:51 <+agl> jfernandez: no TextMate support yet I believe, but it would be
00:51 < telemachus> FAIL: net.TestDialError
00:52 <+iant> telemachus: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=2
00:52 < kuroneko> I might do a textmate bundle when I get home and have
hands on my mac
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00:52 < bear> that's just it - no errors that I can see - other than it
starting to say "No rule to make target....." stop
00:53 < telemachus> iant: thanks
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00:53 <+iant> bear: review the directions, make sure the environment
variables, make sure GOBIN is on PATH
00:53 < opensourcenut> Programming a kernel in Go, how feasible is that?
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00:53 <+agl> bear: use pastebin.com and paste the output of `set | grep
00:53 < bear> the instructions don't mention setting GOBIN
00:53 < dsal> http://golang.org/doc/install.html#tmp_17
00:54 <+agl> opensourcenut: kernels typically aren't garbage collected,
although it's not impossible
00:54 <+agl> opensourcenut: and you can drop to assembly when needed, so not
00:54 < ktistai> agl: This language, `go'; has a vast set of libraries?
what about interfacing with low level constructs/kernel land?
00:54 < opensourcenut> agl: Go has the ability to use assembly?
00:54 < opensourcenut> cool
00:54 < bear> but that line implies that if you have $HOME/bin (which I do)
that it's not required
00:54 <+iant> ktistai: there is a syscalls interface
00:54 <+agl> ktistai: http://golang.org/pkg/syscall/
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00:54 < dsal> bear: Did you set GOARCH?
00:54 <+agl> opensourcenut: you can compile C and ASM into Go packages with
6c and 6a
00:55 <+agl> opensourcenut: see src/pkg/big for an example of a package with
assembly functions
00:55 <+iant> bear: in that case make sure that $HOME/bin is on PATH, but
first check that the other environment variables are right
00:55 < dchest> agl: any example with compiled-in C?
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00:56 < opensourcenut> agl: Go would definitely be interesting to write a
kernel in.
00:56 -!- snnw [n=snnw@dhcp-095-096-105-101.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts
00:56 < bear> oh sweet mother of all that is FSM - how hard is it to
autodetect ARCH - it's been done for what - the last 10 years?
00:56 < ktistai> Could anyone name 1 reason why one would learn Go
00:56 < ktistai> Just one :)
00:56 <+agl> dchest: the runtime package has C code
00:56 < MarkBao> bear: umm, that's the target architecture
00:56 < MarkBao> ARCH is
00:56 < telemachus> test/bench/meteor-contest...  that should be worth
looking at
00:56 < telemachus> iant: You're a prince, thanks
00:56 < dsymonds> bear: you are always cross-compiling with go
00:56 < dchest> agl: thanks!
00:56 < danderson> ktistai: because it's there, and may contain interesting
00:56 < MarkBao> bear: not necessarily the arch that your computer is on
00:57 < dsymonds> bear: that's why GOARCH needs to be set
00:57 < manveru> ktistai: for fun :)
00:57 < telemachus> off to write hello go...
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00:57 < danderson> same reason as to learn anything in my book: because it's
there, and I don't know it yet.
00:57 < Gnuget> mmm
00:57 < bear> dsymonds, so the make has a bootstrap compiler build step?
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00:57 < Gnuget> i set the GOBIN now i get this messages
00:57 < Gnuget> http://paste.ideaslabs.com/show/v1C7387PON
00:57 < ktistai> danderson, such as?
00:57 < danderson> ktistai: the homepage has the elevator pitch
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00:57 < kaib> bear: my GOARCH=arm and i'm usually on a 64 bit intel machine.
00:57 < opensourcenut> Is there a overlay for Go?
00:58 <+iant> overlay?
00:58 < MarkBao> kaib: hmm, you develop for ARM?  how is it?
00:58 < opensourcenut> or a ebuild for gentoo
00:58 < ktistai> what provisions does it provide that other languages do not
00:58 < ktistai> why would I want to move from C, or Python, to Go?
00:58 <+iant> opensourcenut: no ebuild yet
00:58 < opensourcenut> dang
00:58 < bear> GOARCH=darwin then for a native osx build?
00:58 <+iant> ktistai: if you are interested, see the FAQ
00:58 < dsymonds> bear: yep
00:58 <+iant> ktistai: if it doesn't answer, I'm not sure we can
00:58 < dsymonds> bear: oh, sorry, no
00:58 < kaib> MarkBao: in what sense?
00:58 < dsymonds> bear: GOARCH=amd64 GOOS=darwin
00:58 <+iant> bear: GOOS=darwin
00:58 < bear> yea, just caught that myself
00:58 < ktistai> opensourcenut, make one!
00:58 < MarkBao> kaib: speed, awesomeness level
00:59 < bear> ARCH vs OS
00:59 < bear> man it's been too long since i've done compiler bootstrap
00:59 * bear flexes old muscles
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00:59 < kaib> MarkBao: 5g, the arm compiler, is buggy and incomplete.  then
again i'm biased because it's mostly my work ..  :-)
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00:59 < MarkBao> kaib: oh.  haha :)
00:59 <+agl> Gnuget: it would seem that the important lines are missing from
the top of that paste.
01:00 -!- laprice [n=larry@fremont.zoneverte.org] has joined #go-nuts
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01:00 < kaib> MarkBao: 5g passes most of the basic compiler test suite.
i've been running it on some android hardware and the main thing it's lacking is
soft float support.
01:00 * stelt is thinking how this maps on Occam's PAR, PRIPAR, SEQ, ALT and
01:00 < Gnuget> agl, oks, i'm going to paste the entire message
01:00 < MarkBao> kaib: argh, floats.
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01:00 < MarkBao> good luck.
01:01 < telemachus> silly question, but is there a go.vim file around?
01:01 < kaib> MarkBao: it's mostly a solved problem in other languages so we
are probably ok.
01:01 < MarkBao> yeah.
01:01 <+iant> telemachus: see misc/vim
01:01 < kaib> MarkBao: if you do just integer math you'll work out of the
01:01 < ktistai> iant: Do you have any code you've written in Go, that you
can show off :)
01:01 < dsal> telemachus: dhcp-103:~/prog/eprojects/go-lang 528% find .
-name go.vim —> ./misc/vim/go.vim
01:01 < dazz> hi there, got a strange problem about quietgcc not found in
installing go.  Got hints ?
01:01 < MarkBao> kaib: good to know!
01:01 < telemachus> iant: that's two drinks I owe you
01:01 < vhold> Go comes with quite a bit of sample code in the form of
tests, benchmarks and libraries
01:01 <+iant> ktistai: there is plenty of Go in the library, more than
100,000 lines I think
01:02 < MarkBao> I'm currently considering building a small mobile device on
01:02 < kaib> MarkBao: 5g and the arm runtime support go-routines, closures
and split stacks, which took a while to get right.
01:02 -!- Havex [n=Havex@d137-186-173-13.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:02 <+iant> dazz: put your GOBIN directory on PATH
01:02 <+agl> dazz: you need $GOBIN in your path.
01:02 < MarkBao> so of course, either general x86 procs or the Cortex
01:02 -!- krewenki [n=Adium@blk-222-176-108.eastlink.ca] has joined #go-nuts
01:02 < bear> hmm, expected that net.test generates a failure?
01:02 < kaib> MarkBao: yep, i have some embedded side projects as well (at
01:02 -!- ajbouh [n=adamb@c-71-233-151-63.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:02 <+iant> bear: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=2
01:02 < kaib> MarkBao: i'm actually working on getting something running on
a AT91SAM7 board.
01:03 < dsymonds> iant: 159820 lines of Go in total
01:03 < bear> ah - bug list already - k, let me review it
01:03 -!- nuggien [n=dnguyen@nat.electric-cloud.com] has joined #go-nuts
01:03 < dsymonds> iant: (find $GOROOT -name '*.go' | xargs wc -l)
01:03 < Gnuget> agl, http://paste.ideaslabs.com/show/4DymyoPgsJ
01:03 <+iant> dsymonds: thx
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01:04 < MarkBao> kaib: keep in touch and let me how that goes.  I really
want to build it on x86 (testing is easy, deployment is more 'stable' in the sense
that you're 90% sure it'll work vs 60%) but ARM is a fast and cheap platform that
a lot of embedded seems to be using nowadays
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01:04 < dazz> iant: thanks ! Thought it was /usr/bin by default...
Misunderstood the point i think !!!  gr8, i'll check now
01:04 < MarkBao> and considering that Moto Droid, iPhone 3GS, and Palm Pre
are all on Cortex A8...
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01:05 <+agl> Gnuget: looks like either GOARCH or GOOS is wrong.
01:05 < kuroneko> are there any notes on the implementation magic?
01:05 < Gnuget> the 8g binary is already there but when i do something like:
8g hello.go
01:05 < Gnuget> hello.go:3: fatal error: can't find import: fmt
01:05 <+agl> Gnuget: I think GOOS is set to 386.  It should be "linux" or
"darwin" (the latter is for OS X)
01:05 <+agl> Gnuget: wrong GOROOT probably
01:05 < Gnuget> aahhhhh
01:05 < Gnuget> oks
01:06 < telemachus> are there any particular advantages/disadvantages to 8g
and co versys gogcc?
01:06 <+iant> telemachus: 8g is much faster, gccgo is more familiar for some
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quit [Client Quit]
01:06 <+agl> kuroneko: there's no too much in the internals yet.  The
techtalk is probably the closest thing (link on the left of golang.org)
01:06 < telemachus> iant: cool, thanks (you had me at "much faster")
01:06 -!- ejrock [n=chatzill@static-71-249-175-83.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has
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01:06 < Gnuget> ahahahah yes you are right agl , now works fine :)
01:06 <+agl> telemachus: 8g is probably faster at compiling.  gccgo probably
generates better code.
01:07 < bear> wow - seems like such a step backwards to create a new
language with { } and pointers
01:07 < dchest> nice: "Ogle is the beginning of a debugger for Go." :)
01:07 < opensourcenut> even though I exported GOROOT, it still says its not
set,whats up with this?
01:07 < Gnuget> thanks :)
01:07 <+agl> bear: pointers are like other pointers: no arithmetic.
01:07 < sstangl> opensourcenut: "export GOROOT=foo"?
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01:07 < opensourcenut> yeah
01:07 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: env | grep '^GO'
01:07 < sstangl> opensourcenut: is it set?
01:07 <+agl> bear: pointers are *not* like other pointers: no arithmetic.
01:07 < opensourcenut> and then I can echo $GOROOT
01:07 < telemachus> agl: hmm, better how (optimized for ?)
01:08 < dazz> iant: Thanks, it made the trick !
01:08 <+iant> telemachus: gccgo generates more highly optimized code which
runs faster
01:08 < bear> agl - yea, saw that in the FAQ - but with the type system they
have, why the need to use *foo in function declarations
01:08 <+agl> telemachus: GCC's codegen is a lot more advanced/complex
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01:08 < opensourcenut> yeah its definitely set
01:08 < telemachus> gotcha...
01:08 -!- abbyz [n=abhishek@unaffiliated/abbyz] has joined #go-nuts
01:08 <+agl> bear: *foo doesn't copy the variable
01:08 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: ls -l $GOROOT/include/u.h
01:08 <+iant> bear: this isn't Java, values are values
01:08 <+agl> bear: also, you can write through a pointer and modify the
value pointed at.
01:08 < bear> iant - sure - i'm a python coder by nature
01:09 <+agl> bear: typically you don't need the latter because Go has
multiple return values, but passing a large structure by reference can be a win.
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01:09 < bear> agl - yea, I get that also - guess it's just the syntax that
is giving me the hives
01:09 < sstangl> is anyone working on vim highlighting for Go?
01:09 < stelt> anybody has go translations of Occam constructs
01:09 <+rsc9> sstangl: see $GOROOT/misc
01:10 <+rsc9> bear: try hg pull -u and see if that fixes your dns problem
01:10 < telemachus> sstangl: misc/vim/go.vim
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01:10 <+agl> sstangl: misc/vim/go.vim
01:10 < bear> agl - guess i'm asking the wrong question (cause i'm focusing
on the syntax ;) - wondering why not make by-reference the default and avoid the
01:10 < sstangl> thanks :)
01:10 < bear> rsc9 - doing that now
01:10 -!- OlafurW [n=waage@157-157-216-127.static.simnet.is] has joined #go-nuts
01:10 < Gnuget> OMG another error :|
01:10 < Gnuget> http://paste.ideaslabs.com/show/UXm5SRswkf
01:10 <+iant> bear: when would you pass by value, then?
01:10 <+iant> Gnuget: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=2
01:10 < dazz> i've got a 0x2b77240c0640 unknown pc.  I set my GOOS to linux
and GOARCH to amd64.  I'm on a Core2 Duo with an Ubuntu.  Is this setting right ?
01:11 -!- ESphynx [i=ESphynx@216-66-133-241.dsl.look.ca] has joined #go-nuts
01:11 < OlafurW> ubuntu 9.10 - when running ./all.bash i get this -
/usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:9:27: error: gnu/stubs-64.h: No such file or directory
01:11 < bear> iant - you wouldn't - you mark it in the interface as static
01:11 <+agl> Issue 2 (broken net unittests) is fixed on trunk:
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01:11 <+iant> OlafurW: sounds like missing 64-bit development headers
01:11 <+agl> Gnuget: that's the issue you have, btw
01:12 <+agl> OlafurW: can you use pastebin.com and paste the full log?
01:12 <+iant> dazz: when do you get that error?
01:12 <+agl> dazz: can you use pastebin.com and paste the full log?
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01:12 < OlafurW> agl: i will in a sec, gonna try one thing 1st
01:12 <+iant> agl: wouldn't you rather just guess?
01:13 < bear> rsc9, same test failure point
01:13 < dazz> iant: ‍net·*pollServer·Run+0x9e
01:13 < dazz> net·*pollServer·Run(0x240c0640, 0x2b77)
01:13 < dazz> goexit /home/dazz/dev/go/src/pkg/runtime/proc.c:134
01:13 < telemachus> agl: thanks for that
01:13 < dazz> in goroutine 3
01:13 < Kniht> while running ./all.bash: http://codepad.org/SfA5STXH, no
idea what's happening here except that a test is failing, what should I do to
continue installing?
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01:14 <+iant> dazz: that sounds like it might be
01:14 <+rsc9> kniht: fixed; hg pull -u and run again.  or just use the tree
as is.  it's installed before the tests start
01:14 <+agl> Kniht: that issue has been fixed on the trunk
01:14 <+agl> Kniht: also, you can add net to the NOTEST list in
01:15 < Kniht> looks like I should've read the channel right before too..
thanks, pulling and updating now
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01:15 <+agl> dazz: we need more context than that if you don't mind using a
paste bin.
01:15 < dazz> i was just typing that was in the "net" test section.  Sounds
right.  i checkiant:
01:15 < bear> rsc9 - did a clean.bash and a fresh all.bash - same
net.TestDialError as before
01:16 <+rsc9> bear: hg log -q -l 1?
01:16 < dazz> agl: thanks, i check iant's thoughts and ome back with a
pastebin if that doesn't work
01:16 < bear> osx leopard
01:16 < bear> 3960:de1a91a5a801
01:16 < Gnuget> hahaha awesome now is working well :) thx agl and iant :D
01:16 < Gnuget> aya --- cd ../test
01:16 < Gnuget> 0 known bugs; 0 unexpected bugs
01:16 < Gnuget>
01:16 < Gnuget> :D
01:17 <+robpike> go!
01:17 < OlafurW> to fetch from trunk, do I hg clone -r release to hg clone
-r trunk ?
01:17 <+rsc9> no, you just drop the -r release
01:17 <+agl> OlafurW: I think you can just omit the -r release
01:17 < OlafurW> ok
01:18 <+rsc9> if you've already cloned you can just "hg pull -u"
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01:19 <+agl> bear: you might have a different issue then.  Did you have a
pastebin URL (the traffic is so high I can't remember)
01:19 -!- mkanat [n=mkanat@c-67-188-1-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:19 < Gnuget> " 8g hello.go
01:19 < Gnuget> hello.go:3: fatal error: can't find import: fmt
01:19 < Gnuget> "
01:19 < Gnuget> :O
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01:19 < bear> agl - no, I skipped that part - let me do a clean and make and
paste fresh
01:20 < opensourcenut> while building go I get errors
01:20 <+agl> Gnuget: probably a bad $GOROOT
01:20 < dazz> --- cd ../test
01:20 <+iant> Gnuget: typically means that GOROOT is not right
01:20 < sstangl> opensourcenut: same
01:20 < dazz> 0 known bugs; 0 unexpected bugs
01:20 < dazz> iant, agl: thanx, you rock guys
01:20 < opensourcenut> Makefile:5: /home/osn/golang/src/Make.: No such file
or directory
01:20 < opensourcenut> make: *** No rule to make target
`/home/osn/golang/src/Make.'.  Stop.
01:20 < sstangl> I'm gotting the error: no tests matching Test([^a-z].*)?
in _test/archive/tar.a
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(Connection reset by peer)]
01:21 <+agl> Gnuget: you should have $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_$GOARCH/fmt.a
01:21 < dsal> opensourcenut: http://golang.org/doc/install.html#tmp_17
01:21 < joeyadams> Did the LookupHost bug just get fixed?
01:21 < bear> sounds like that install page needs to repeat the environment
var setting part in the build part ;)
01:21 <+iant> joeyadams: we think so
01:21 <+agl> opensourcenut: you need $GOARCH
01:21 <+iant> sstangl: I haven't see that one
01:21 -!- schrdoingers_CT [n=IV@74-128-123-101.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined
01:21 <+agl> joeyadams: yes
01:21 < Gnuget> ayay1 its true :D
01:21 < Gnuget> all works fine
01:21 < opensourcenut> ah I see
01:21 < joeyadams> I guess I should test it
01:22 < ESphynx> hey joeyadams :P
01:22 <+agl> sstangl: can you use a paste bin and paste more context?
01:22 < bear> agl - how much of this do you want?
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01:22 <+agl> bear: as much as is reasonable.
01:22 < opensourcenut> no freebsd support?
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01:22 <+iant> opensourcenut: not yet
01:22 < ktistai> To set the $GOBIN $GOROOT $GOARCH environment variables,
I'd enter "GOROOT=$HOME/go" in .bashrc "GOARCH=linux/amd64" and
"GOBIN=$HOME/go/bin" ?
01:22 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: go right ahead
01:23 <+rsc9> ;-)
01:23 < opensourcenut> haah
01:23 < Kniht> rsc9: after that, got: http://codepad.org/p6uP6zbi (I'm just
adding net to NOTEST for now, but don't know where to report that except here)
01:23 < manveru> i'm getting http://pastie.org/private/fsyuh6djag2mkpgcorv2g
after build
01:23 < Gnuget> thanks guy,
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01:23 <+iant> manveru: that should be fixed, do an hg pull -u
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01:23 < manveru> might be because OpenDNS intercepts lookup failures?
01:23 < kuroneko> I'm fudging in http_proxy support into net.http since some
of us are trapped behind restrictive firewalls 9 hours a day >_>
01:23 <+agl> ktistai: GOARCH=amd64 GOOS=linux
01:23 < OlafurW> agl: 0 known bugs; 0 unexpected bugs.  Thank you
01:23 <+rsc9> knight: that's interestint
01:24 -!- gcarrier [n=gcarrier@archlinux/trusteduser/GCarrier] has joined #go-nuts
01:24 <+rsc9> ktistai: then export GOARCH GOOS GOROOT GOBIN
01:24 < gcarrier> hi!
01:24 < telemachus> agl: even after hg pull -u I get the same build error
01:24 < joeyadams> The net test passed on my system, afaict
01:24 < telemachus> just fyi
01:24 <+agl> rsc9: you might want to look at
01:24 <+iant> rsc9: must be using a server which answers all DNS queries
01:24 <+rsc9> agl, iant: yes, i think so
01:25 < Kniht> rsc9: I didn't clean after hg pull -u, just ran ./all.bash
again, if that's significant
01:25 < sstangl> agl: http://fpaste.org/KQBu/ line 497
01:25 <+rsc9> kniht: no it's okay
01:25 < telemachus> I did clean; didn't do it
01:25 < joeyadams> When did go go open source?
01:25 < bear> agl - http://pastebin.com/d4b4a28e8
01:25 <+iant> joeyadams: 2 1/2 hours ago
01:25 < manveru> Kniht: having same issue, you using opendns too?
01:25 < Kniht> manveru: yes
01:25 < joeyadams> really, or are you kidding?
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01:26 < Kniht> that would seem to explain it
01:26 <+iant> joeyadams: really
01:26 <+agl> joeyadams: Go went open source today at 3pm PST
01:26 -!- SiegeLord [n=siege@pool-71-124-166-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has
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01:26 < joeyadams> lemme guess.  By tomorrow, go will have web application
support, an IDE with a powerful class browser, and have an entire OS written in
it?  :D
01:26 < ktistai> One more question, the: mercurial
https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ download is how big?
01:26 <+agl> sstangl: crumbs, not sure about that one.
01:26 * ktistai 's on dialup
01:27 < OlafurW> joeyadams: tonight
01:27 <+rsc9> agl: working on it
01:27 < gcarrier> on all.bash: make.bash: line 20:
/Users/gcarrier/go/bin/quietgcc: No such file or directory
01:27 <+agl> joeyadams: at the moment we're spending all our time on IRC, so
probably not :)
01:27 < gcarrier> anyone?  :)
01:27 < joeyadams> OlafurW> lol
01:27 -!- jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #go-nuts
01:27 <+agl> gcarrier: you need $GOBIN in your path.
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01:28 <+robpike> i did a clean.bash and a du -h and see about 10MB under the
src tree.  including the hg repository it's about 38M
01:28 <+rsc9> ktistai: around 16M
01:28 <+agl> sstangl: you can add archive/tar to the NOTEST list in
src/pkg/Makefile.  I've no idea why that's failing the way that it is.
01:28 < sstangl> agl: it would be useful to modify the bash scripts to
complain verbosely if the environment does not contain those variables
01:28 <+robpike> that's on disk, though; hg will make it smaller
01:28 < ktistai> rsc9, ah.
01:28 < ktistai> :/
01:28 <+agl> sstangl: probably, yes.
01:29 -!- sfuentes [n=sfuentes@cpe-98-154-70-216.socal.res.rr.com] has joined
01:29 <+rsc9> that is, 16M downloaded into .hg (and maybe that is compressed
on the net), + 29M more when checked out
01:29 < OlafurW> Hello World in 567.8KB
01:29 < OlafurW> hot damn, so this is like D
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01:29 < opensourcenut> dialgoogle?
01:29 < gcarrier> $ echo $PATH $GOBIN
01:29 < gcarrier>
01:29 <+robpike> it's not small: there is a significant runtime linked in.
6g/8g binaries are always statically linked even though they have a dynamic ELF or
Mach-O header
01:29 <+agl> OlafurW: that includes symbols
01:30 <+robpike> use size for a better measure
01:30 * mkanat would actually love to implement a web framework in Go if he had
unlimited extra time.  :-)
01:30 < opensourcenut> Why is it dialing google?
01:30 <+agl> gcarrier: paths are separated with ':'.  Note the space near
the end.
01:30 < sstangl> agl: how is the team accepting patches, over the mailing
01:30 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #go-nuts
01:30 < kuroneko> robpike: hola - I think I owe you (and any other golang
people) a beverage of your choices when you're next down Sydney way.  :)
01:30 < gcarrier> agl: that's normal.  read my command.
01:30 -!- Go-Nuts [n=atkailas@71-33-216-84.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:31 <+rsc9> gcarrier: export $GOBIN?  maybe it still installed into
01:31 < OlafurW> agl: ya I know that when I start developing an app, it will
not go much over 500KB to begin with
01:31 <+agl> sstangl: http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html
01:31 < OlafurW> same with D
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01:31 < opensourcenut> robpike: a significant runtime meaning it would be
difficult to do a kernel in go?
01:31 < OlafurW> robpike: what do you mean use size for a better measure?
01:31 < bear> rsc9 - just replied to your poke - sorry for the lag
01:31 <+agl> gcarrier: yes sorry, I see.
01:31 < gcarrier> rsc9: trust me i do export it
01:32 <+robpike> i mean that the size command will give you a text size that
will be a better indicator of the true size of the program.  for hello world, it's
all runtime stuff like reflection
01:32 < sstangl> agl: each test is failing, apparently.
01:32 < Go-Nuts> I had a question, I'm getting a "quietgcc" doesn't exist
error, on Snow Leopard, how do I fix it?
01:32 <+agl> gcarrier: if you try to run 'quitegcc' from the command line,
does it work?
01:32 < sstangl> agl: with the same error, alphabetically.
01:32 < Jerub> sigh.  the installation instructions advise you to install hg
using setuptools instead of apt-get/yum/etc.
01:32 < mrd`> I didn't happen to see any mention on golang.org about what
happens if new() or make() fail to allocate memory.
01:32 -!- rares_ [n=rares@c-69-143-38-77.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:32 < bear> go-nuts - you need xcode installed
01:32 < OlafurW> robpike: ya, it's fine since it offers a lot of neat stuff
01:32 < Go-Nuts> I have xcode installed.  with the iPhone SDK
01:32 <+agl> Go-Nuts: $GOBIN needs to be in your PATH
01:33 < gcarrier> agl: i have nothing in GOBIN
01:33 < Go-Nuts> GOBIN defaults to $HOME/bin right?
01:33 < sstangl> Go-Nuts: yes
01:33 <+rsc9> jerub: you can use whatever tool you like, obviously.
01:33 <+agl> gcarrier: quietgcc is created at the top of src/make.bash
01:33 < gcarrier> agl: well it's not :)
01:33 <+rsc9> jerub: easy_install happens to be likely to work on both linux
and os x and downloads a recent mercurial.
01:34 -!- ktistai [n=ktistai@unaffiliated/ktistai] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"]
01:34 < gcarrier> ok, GOBIN must exist...
01:34 <+agl> gcarrier: you could just paste those commands into a terminal.
It should work the same and you might notice something.
01:34 <+rsc9> gcarrier: does mkdir $GOBIN fix your problem?
01:34 < gcarrier> it would be idiot-proof to if [ -d ] install -d
01:34 < gcarrier> it would be idiot-proof to if [ ! -d ] install -d sorry
01:34 <+rsc9> gcarrier: we'll put a test for existence of $GOBIN into the
script, thanks.
01:34 < Go-Nuts> yeah, I made the bin directory and it fixed
01:34 <+agl> gcarrier: yes, we need to add a bunch of more helpful warnings
to the scripts it seems.
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01:35 < gcarrier> rsc9: agl: members of the main team?
01:35 -!- Lixivial [n=Lixi@71-10-86-62.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined
01:35 < bear> ahh - the feeling of day 0 support
01:35 < Go-Nuts> should've guessed that was the issue, but figured it would
be created (like go was when using mercurial)
01:35 < OlafurW> well gl guys
01:35 -!- OlafurW [n=waage@157-157-216-127.static.simnet.is] has left #go-nuts []
01:35 <+agl> gcarrier: voiced people are Go team
01:35 < Go-Nuts> Thanks!
01:35 -!- kaib [n=kaib@nat/google/x-bwuwlfcwugtzzouf] has quit []
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01:36 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v gri] by ChanServ
01:36 < opensourcenut> I'm getting a error --- FAIL: net.TestDialGoogle
01:36 < telemachus> opensourcenut:
01:36 <+agl> opensourcenut: are you using OpenDNS?
01:36 < sstangl> agl: I'm going to try submitting the bash change, just to
get accustomed to the procedure.
01:36 <+robpike> opensourcenut: are you on snow leoparrd?
01:36 < opensourcenut> agl: No
01:36 < gcarrier> agl: any history doc?  :)
01:36 < telemachus> (should be in the topic for the channel)
01:36 <+agl> sstangl: sounds great
01:36 < opensourcenut> agl: I have a local dnscache
01:36 <+rsc9> agl: you have a code review
01:36 < telemachus> agl: for what it's worth, no OpenDNS here either
01:36 < opensourcenut> agl: dnscache from djb's tindydns
01:36 -!- jadamcze [n=jadamcze@ppp59-167-70-67.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net] has
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01:36 < bear> seems like a dns cache/proxy issue
01:36 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: full text please?
01:37 < Jerub> testing on fedora/386 i have a problem building go, last few
lines of ./all.bash are here: http://paste2.org/p/509568
01:37 < opensourcenut> rsc9: from where to where?
01:37 <+agl> rsc9: LGTM
01:37 <+agl> Jerub: you're the second person reporting that.  I'm afraid
I've no idea what could cause it.
01:37 <+rsc9> from when it cd'ed into net to run the test to the end
01:37 <+agl> Jerub: however, everything is already built and installed at
that point.
01:38 <+rsc9> jerub: please file an issue on
01:38 < joeyadams> Does go use header files, or do the .o files contain the
declaration symbols for files?
01:38 <+rsc9> joeyadams: go has no header files.  the objects contain all
the information needed and are read during the import
01:38 <+agl> joeyadams: there are no header files as such
01:39 < Jerub> before i do, what should archive/tar/_test/archive/tar.a look
like?  what's the type of that file?
01:39 <+agl> joeyadams: also, there's no need to transitively walk the
object files.
01:39 -!- xoebus [n=xoebus@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts
01:39 < Eridius> hrm, what a surprise, go compiled/tested much faster on my
Mac Pro than on my MacBook Pro
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01:39 < opensourcenut> rsc9: http://pastebin.ca/1665788
01:39 < Jerub> oooh, it's an ar archive.
01:39 <+agl> Jerub: it should exist and be a binary archive file.
01:39 < telemachus> rsc9: http://pastie.textmate.org/693039
01:40 <+agl> Jerub: it might be useful to attach it to the bug
01:40 <+agl> opensourcenut: ah, no IPv6 support.
01:40 <+rsc9> telemachus: hg pull -u and all.bash again
01:40 < Jerub> filing bug now.
01:40 < joeyadams> Has anyone made a Kate syntax file for Go?
01:40 < opensourcenut> the ipv4 packets got out, according to my firewall's
01:40 <+rsc9> jerub: please include the output of "sh -x gotest"
01:40 <+rsc9> thanks
01:40 < telemachus> rsc9: I did hg pull -u before this round, no updates
01:40 <+agl> joeyadams: no, but it would be welcome..
01:41 < opensourcenut> agl: I'm not using ipv6
01:41 < telemachus> rsc9: whoops, one update
01:41 < telemachus> my bad (just entered?)
01:41 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: we're on it
01:41 < telemachus> also not using ipv6 here (shut off)
01:41 < joeyadams> Have other editors had a Go syntax made?
01:41 <+agl> telemachus: the change I think you want is
01:41 < opensourcenut> So I have to be on ipv6 to use it?
01:41 <+iant> joeyadams: see misc; we have vi and emacs
01:41 <+agl> joeyadams: misc/vim and misc/emacs
01:41 <+iant> opensourcenut: no....
01:42 < Eridius> what, no TextMatE?
01:42 <+agl> opensourcenut: if you hg pull -u it should be fxied by
01:42 <+iant> Eridius: not yet
01:42 < Eridius> pfft
01:42 <+agl> Eridius: we welcome syntax files.
01:42 < telemachus> rsc9: trying again...
01:42 < gcarrier> http.TestClient and http.TestRedirect fail!?
01:42 < Eridius> agl: I have to actually learn the language first :p
01:42 <+agl> gcarrier: Snow Leopard?
01:42 < gcarrier> agl: yup
01:42 <+rsc9> gcarrier: output?
01:43 <+agl> gcarrier: it's been reported that disabling the firewall fixes
01:43 <+robpike> http.TestClient and http.TestRedirect fail for me on snow
leopard but work if you disable the firewall
01:43 < gcarrier> lol, that's strange!?
01:43 <+agl> gcarrier: if so, we would be interested to know why :)
01:43 < gcarrier> agl: let me have a look
01:43 < opensourcenut> what causes this?
01:43 <+rsc9> os x firewall assumes all dns requests go through the system
libraries, and ours don't
01:43 <+rsc9> we use udp directly which the firewall does not allow.  maybe
it thinks we are some scary p2p app
01:44 < gcarrier> ok, the firewall does open a window to ask for permission
01:44 < gcarrier> but it closes extremely fast
01:44 <+agl> rsc9: there's probably a Mach-port to talk to the local DNS
01:44 < Go-Nuts> Yeah I saw that and was wondering what happened.  was
typing at the time so thought that's what did it
01:44 <+robpike> i've seen that window flash.  any idea how to deal with it?
01:44 <+rsc9> even if you grant permission i think it doesn't work.  i don't
01:44 < gcarrier> i had time to allow one, not the other, and now one of the
2 tests run ok
01:45 < harryv> you rendered go!  un-googleable :/
01:45 < kuroneko> there should probably be a thing up somewhere that says
that the tests assume internet connectivity.
01:45 <+rsc9> agl: i know, but i've been ducking the implementation of true
mach rpc
01:45 < harryv>
01:45 < telemachus> rsc9:, agl: the last patch fixed the dns test for me
01:45 < telemachus> thanks
01:45 -!- pmlarocque [n=pmlarocq@modemcable249.8-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined
01:46 < opensourcenut> I'm curious why it has to connect
01:46 <+iant> opensourcenut: it's testing that the network code works
01:46 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: it has to announce on a port to listen for the
dns response, and the firewall doesn't want to let packets come in.
01:46 <+iant> (if that is what you are asking)
01:46 -!- Chealion [n=Chealion@mail.joemedia.tv] has quit ["Thank You and Good
01:46 -!- rares_ [n=rares@c-69-143-38-77.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit
01:47 < gcarrier> agl:
01:47 < Eridius> oh great, go-mode.el doesn't work right
01:47 -!- brianmacdonald [n=brianmac@] has quit [Read error: 104
(Connection reset by peer)]
01:47 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: hg pull -u should fix your ipv6 bug
01:47 < Eridius> I'm getting a lisp error when trying to edit an empty .go
01:47 < gcarrier> agl: it's trying to allow incoming connections??
01:47 <+rsc9> gcarrier: yep, that's the one.
01:47 -!- antarus [n=antarus@gentoo/developer/antarus] has joined #go-nuts
01:47 -!- brianmacdonald [n=brianmac@c-98-208-175-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has
joined #go-nuts
01:47 < gcarrier> in the logs: 11/11/09 2:47:24 AMFirewall[61]6.out is
listening from ::ffff: proto=6
01:47 -!- soul9 [n=none@unaffiliated/johnnybuoy] has joined #go-nuts
01:47 < Jerub> I've filed issue 7, which describes the crash i saw, and
attaches the tar.a file
01:47 <+rsc9> gcarrier: if by listen for a dns response you mean allow
incoming connections, then yes (and apple does mean that)
01:48 -!- Jarin [n=Jarin@ip68-101-195-234.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
01:48 < gcarrier> (from Console.app, search "firewall" in "All messages")
01:48 < opensourcenut> rsc9 Ah so it has to bind to a port to listen for the
DNS response?
01:48 <+rsc9> yes
01:48 < opensourcenut> rsc9: Thats a bit strange don't you thin?
01:48 < gcarrier> rsc9: you implement the DNS handling internally?
01:49 < gcarrier> wow i see you deal with SRV records.  nice.
01:49 <+agl> gcarrier: yes, we serialise our own DNS packets
01:49 <+agl> Jerub: thanks!
01:49 < gcarrier> agl: so the question might be: why does this request
window closes immediately?  :)
01:49 < gcarrier> agl: can go programs be gdb'ed?
01:49 -!- ian1 [n=iant@] has joined #go-nuts
01:50 <+rsc9> gcarrier: yes but with no symbols, which might not be useful
01:50 < Jerub> agl: if you need me to test anything, i'm always available,
just ping me on irc.
01:50 < Go-Nuts> maybe gotest quits and that makes the firewall allow/deny
thing close?
01:50 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v ian1] by ChanServ
01:50 * Eridius is rather surprised go-mode.el fails on empty buffers.  Didn't the
author every try to create a new .go file by typing `emacs hello.go`?
01:50 < gcarrier> rsc9: for sure :P
01:50 < gcarrier> Go-Nuts: probably.  why does it closes that fast?
01:50 < gcarrier> is there a <1s timeout?
01:50 -!- raysl [n=anonymou@d24-141-147-73.home.cgocable.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:50 < wcn> In Java, there is a convention that the output of toString()
should not be relied upon.  In Go, since one can use strings, but not structs as
keys to maps, is it ok to use the String() method to generate keys, or is there a
convention to create a specific GetKey() method?
01:51 <+rsc9> wcn: there is no convention
01:51 <+rsc9> pointers can be keys in maps, though, so if you have a
canonical pointer, ...
01:51 < Jerub> agl: yikes, implementing your own dns client implementation
isn't optimal.  what about systems with /etc/nsswitch.conf ?
01:51 <+agl> Eridius: sorry.  Not sure who uses emacs here!
01:51 < wcn> rsc9: oh, I did not realize that.  Cool.
01:52 <+rsc9> jerub: if you can find out how to call the system dns without
using ffi, we'll put it in.  ;-)
01:52 <+agl> Jerub: DNS on Linux systems is a total disaster.  We don't want
to go near it.
01:52 < Eridius> agl: amusingly the error is an index was assumed to be
1-based when it's 0-based
01:52 -!- defectiv [n=clays@c-24-5-65-40.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:52 <+agl> Eridius: patches welcome
01:52 < Eridius> agl: how does one submit a patch back?
01:52 < defectiv> oy ve.  doe this mean i don't have to learn D now?
01:52 < Jerub> rsc9: what's wrong with using ffi to talk to glibc?
01:52 <+rsc9> gcarrier: no idea about the tiny timeout, i assume it's an os
x bug.
01:52 < opensourcenut> http://pastebin.ca/1665798
01:52 * Eridius is not familiar with mercurial
01:52 <+agl> Eridius: http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html
01:52 < defectiv> first question...  is Go on Git?
01:52 <+rsc9> jerub: we like to have standalone binaries
01:53 < Jerub> agl: nsswitch.conf is on many more systems than just linux...
01:53 <+rsc9> defectiv: no, mercurial
01:53 <+ian1> defectiv: no, Mercurial
01:53 <+agl> defectiv: Go uses hg
01:53 < defectiv> well, not horrible.
01:53 -!- ikke [n=1kk3@unaffiliated/ikkebr] has quit []
01:53 <+agl> opensourcenut: fixed on trunk.  hg pull -u to update.
01:53 < opensourcenut> agl: again?
01:53 < opensourcenut> I've pulled like 5 times in the last hour haha
01:53 < gcarrier> rsc9: i don't think so.  osx just waits for an answer to
bind the socket, so if you timeout and give up it's normal to stop asking for
01:53 <+agl> opensourcenut: you issue has been fixed by a check in.  You can
run `hg pull -u` to sync your tree to the tip of trunk.
01:54 -!- Jarin [n=Jarin@adsl-71-136-232-63.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] has joined
01:54 < brianmacdonald> where should I post a error in the documentation?
01:54 <+agl> opensourcenut: (oh, I thought 'again' meant 'I don't
01:54 < opensourcenut> no changes found
01:54 < Eridius> err, agl, that page gives erroneous information.  It says
to run `hg change` when you're ready to send a change out for review, but that
tells me hg: unknown command 'change'
01:54 -!- sammyf [n=sammy@unaffiliated/sammyf] has joined #go-nuts
01:54 <+agl> brianmacdonald: here if it's simple, otherwise you can file a
bug at code.google.com/p/go
01:54 <+rsc9> Eridius: you did not enable the code review extension
01:54 < Jerub> well, basically, there's no way at all to implement a DNS
resolver that matches the rest of the system without loading and calling a library
because nsswitch.conf allows you to provide loadable shared object files as
resolver plugins, which is how mdns works.
01:54 <+ian1> Eridius: you need to add the codereview plugin to your .hgrc
01:54 <+agl> Eridius: you need to install the codereview extension.
01:54 -!- mfb [n=mark@j0.ramona.indybay.org] has joined #go-nuts
01:54 < joeyadams> heh, channel membership went from ~64 to 103 since I
01:54 < Eridius> rsc9: no, I just installed mercurial specifically to get go
01:55 < opensourcenut> agl: no changes found
01:55 * Eridius has zero familiarity with mercurial
01:55 <+agl> Jerub: yes, this is unfortunate.  OS X and (even) Windows are
much better in this regard.
01:55 < Eridius> ahh, I see where it tells me to add that now
01:55 < joeyadams> Reminds me of what happened in #gsoc when people were
waiting for students accepted to be announced.
01:55 < Eridius> silly me, I clicked on the "Make a change" hyperlink at the
01:55 <+ian1> Eridius: that's good, because Go's code review plugin is
somewhat different from standard Mercurial
01:55 < Jerub> agl: dns on osx is also weird.  there are two resolvers on
the system, and some tools use one, or the other.
01:55 <+agl> opensourcenut: wait, you might be right.  You might have a
different problem.
01:56 -!- ian1 [n=iant@] has quit ["Leaving."]
01:56 -!- benno [n=benno@vl10.gw.ok-labs.com] has joined #go-nuts
01:56 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: that's a real bug, on it
01:56 * Eridius installed go on two different 10.6.2 systems and had no net issues
01:56 < benno> anyone know if the current build system supports
cross-compiling for arm?
01:56 < brianmacdonald> In
http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#web_server line 16 template.HtmlFormatter
01:56 < brianmacdonald> should be template.HTMLFormatter and 33
template.HtmlEscape should be HTMLEscape.  See http://golang.org/pkg/template/
01:56 < benno> it doesn't seem to, although it suggests that ARM is support?
01:56 < defectiv> anyone know off hand whot a recent core 2 duo is,
architecturally?  64-bit?
01:56 < opensourcenut> rsc9: okay what information do you need?
01:57 <+agl> Jerub: Linux distros should include a local DNS cache.  I have
a NetworkManager patch for that, but it's very hard to get patches into NW.
01:57 <+agl> benno: yes, but some things don't work yet.  (Like floats.)
01:57 < Jerub> agl: I'm not trying to say, "you're wrong" - far from it, DNS
resolution by software sucks in huge ways, and the libc resolver is indeed crap
(no way to do an async query for one)
01:57 < antarus> agl: we might have some staff to work on that later this
01:57 <+agl> defectiv: Core 2 is typically amd64
01:57 < benno> agl: I don't want floats on arm anyway :)
01:57 < antarus> agl: if you are bored and want to help :)
01:57 <+agl> defectiv: although one can install a 32-bit OS on it.
01:58 < benno> agl: how do I build, 'gcc' seems to be hardcoded in the
makefile (afaict?)
01:58 <+agl> antarus: work on what?
01:58 -!- mwarning [n=mwarning@] has quit ["Leaving"]
01:58 < antarus> agl: new resolver libraries for linux
01:58 < joeyadams> Does go support reflection?  (e.g.  can one read
structure arguments present at run-time?)
01:58 < benno> ok, make-arm.bash
01:58 < benno> stupid me
01:58 < Eridius> what the...  `hg code-login` returned without prompting me
for anything
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01:58 <+robpike> go supports reflection
01:58 < joeyadams> yay!
01:58 -!- micje [i=56534af1@gateway/web/freenode/x-zdvgavrqisbpgdpr] has joined
01:58 < wcn> joeyadams: Yes, look at the fmt package for a good example.
01:58 <+robpike> read in the tutorial or in effective go about how printingn
01:58 <+agl> Jerub: I understand the problem.  It's bad that xyz.local
doesn't work in Go. But I don't think we'll be dynamically linking in .so's to get
it working.
01:59 <+agl> joeyadams: yes, see the reflect package.
01:59 < joeyadams> Does go have two compiler implementations, one in C, and
one in go?
01:59 <+agl> rsc9: LGTM
01:59 < Jerub> agl: well, provided someone understand the problem i'm happy.
01:59 <+agl> joeyadams: it includes a C compiler also
01:59 < Eridius> agl: I can't resolve codereview.prom.corp.google.com
01:59 -!- tf [n=mouse@CPE-124-188-96-237.lbcz1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined
02:00 <+agl> Jerub: I'm just angry about the state of Linux distro's DNS
that's all :)
02:00 -!- tf is now known as flea__
02:00 < Eridius> and `hg code-login` doesn't report an error in this case
02:00 < opensourcenut> rsc9: What about that bug?
02:00 -!- thingie59 [n=foo@125-238-120-71.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz]
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02:00 < Go-Nuts> I wonder how go would like my Hackintosh Netbook...
02:00 <+agl> Eridius: opps, where did you get that hostname?
02:00 -!- dcahill [n=chatzill@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)]
02:00 < joeyadams> you mean a program in go that does .c -> .o ?
02:00 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: hg pull -u and try again
02:00 < joeyadams> I was asking if there's a program in C that does .go
-> .o
02:00 -!- Planktonic [n=plankton@CPE-58-161-123-62.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined
02:00 < Eridius> agl: I clicked the link "code review settings" under
"Configure your account settings"
02:00 < Jerub> agl: Well placed anger.
02:00 <+agl> brianmacdonald: I've sent myself an email with your fixes,
thanks :)
02:00 < Eridius> agl: first link in
02:00 < thingie59> Is there a page which gives an overview of what fils in
the source code implement what part of the programming language?
02:00 <+rsc9> joeyadams: there are two compiler suites: 6g is written in C
and gccgo is written in C++; neither is written in Go
02:00 < thingie59> fils -> files
02:01 -!- seanstickle [n=seanstic@c-68-33-221-168.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined
02:01 * Eridius is guessing that link isn't actually intended for external
02:01 < joeyadams> There's a go package in src/pkgs
02:01 <+rsc9> joeyadams:
02:01 <+agl> joeyadams: 6g does .go -> .o.  6c does .c -> .o
02:01 < flea__> hi, is there a curl package (or equiv) in the class
libraries, or if no
02:01 < Eridius> in any case, `hg code-login` still prints nothing and
returns, with no error, and my ~/.codereview_upload_cookies_localhost:1 file is
empty (also, localhost?)
02:01 -!- mkanat [n=mkanat@c-67-188-1-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["Bye!"]
02:01 < Jerub> tee hee http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=9
02:02 <+robpike> flea_: there are no classes :) but yes: see http package
02:02 < flea__> thanks robpike
02:02 <+rsc9> eridius; hg sync, sorry
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02:02 <+rsc9> eridius: hg pull -u, sorry sorry
02:02 < Eridius> hehe
02:02 < opensourcenut> rsc9: still building but looking good sofar
02:02 < flea__> just found this page http://golang.org/pkg/ :P
02:03 < KirkMcDonald> Jerub: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1127540
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02:03 < opensourcenut> rsc9: there where a lot of errors with files not
found in /tmp, is that a problem?
02:03 < Eridius> rsc9: you may want to change the link on contribute.html as
02:03 < defectiv> if i have a core2 duo, do i want to pick amd64??
02:03 < defectiv> meh
02:03 <+agl> defectiv: probably yes
02:03 -!- telemachus [n=telemach@user-0cev9bh.cable.mindspring.com] has quit
02:04 < joeyadams> Would it be possible to create a compiler (or maybe a
backend for 6g) that does .go -> .c ?
02:04 * benno tries to work out how to cross-compile go binaries
02:04 -!- ajray [n=alex@wvc32563rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
02:04 < joeyadams> Or possibly .go -> (.c .sym) or the like
02:04 -!- stelt [n=chatzill@ip565b0469.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 60
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02:04 < joeyadams> where .c compiles to the program, and .sym is extra
symbol information that (for whatever reason) can't go into the .c file
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02:05 < defectiv> agl: thankya
02:05 <+agl> joeyadams: possible, yes.  But probably a lot of work.
02:05 <+rsc9> eridius: http://codereview.appspot.com/settings
02:05 -!- mpurcell [n=mpurcell@vpn.michaelpurcell.info] has joined #go-nuts
02:05 < Eridius> agl: the contribute.html docs for the `hg change` command
talk about filling in Reviewer, and it includes an example.  But it doesn't
actually tell me what I should fill in there, or if it's ok to leave it blank
02:05 < mpurcell> exciting :)
02:05 <+agl> Eridius: you can put agl as the reviewer
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02:06 < Eridius> agl: thanks
02:06 < Eridius> http://codereview.appspot.com/153052
02:06 < joeyadams> Hmm, where is the go compiler source?
02:07 -!- yan_ [n=yan@pool-71-179-96-37.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined
02:07 <+agl> joeyadams: src/cmd/6g
02:07 < micje> I'm having a problem building Go
02:07 < micje> make: quietgcc: No such file or directory
02:07 < joeyadams> Isn't 6g for amd64, and 8g for 386?
02:08 < Eridius> the `hg change` command warned me "No username found, using
'kballard@<hostname>'".  Should I ignore that?  Is there some way to get
around that?
02:08 < micje> but quietgcc *is* in my path
02:08 <+agl> micje: mkdir $GOBIN also
02:08 < pmlarocque> micje mkdir $GOBIN
02:08 <+agl> joeyadams: yes
02:08 < mpurcell> uhm
02:08 < mpurcell> what is quietgcc.
02:08 < joeyadams> hmm, where do I find out what 8a, 8c, 8g, and 8l are?
02:08 <+agl> mpurcell: it's a script created at the top of src/make.bash
02:09 <+agl> joeyadams: http://golang.org/cmd/
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timed out)]
02:09 < micje> $GOBIN exits, and contains quietgcc
02:09 < joeyadams> thanks
02:09 < mpurcell> ah
02:09 < micje> but make can't see it
02:09 <+agl> micje: then it needs to be in your $PATH
02:09 < benno> ahh 5g == arm compiler
02:09 < benno> that is...  weird
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02:10 < micje> make stumbles over this statement:
02:10 < micje> quietgcc -ggdb -I/Users/mdemare/go/include -O2 -fno-inline -c
02:10 <+rsc9> micje: hg pull -u and try all.bash again
02:10 <+agl> rsc9: try: hg clpatch 153052 -> "error looking up kballard:
urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
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02:10 < Eridius> ok, so `hg change` left my repository in a dirty state.
How do you handle making multiple patches for review?
02:11 <+agl> Eridius: if they touch different files, you can use hg change
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02:11 <+agl> Eridius: if you are laying changes in a single file then you
need a different branch.
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02:11 * Eridius is just rather surprised to see this doesn't keep local commits
but rather leaves the tree dirty
02:11 <+agl> Eridius: hg doesn't do branches as well as Git, IMHO, but they
02:11 < micje> but if I run it but I can run that statement from the CL just
02:11 * Eridius is very used to the git approach, where you never do crap like
this on a dirty working tree
02:11 < micje> rsc9: didn't help
02:12 <+rsc9> agl: kballard needs to be in AUTHORS/CONTRIBUTORS; see
02:12 <+agl> micje: do you have gcc installed?  (And which platform?)
02:12 <+agl> Eridius: note rsc9's last
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02:12 < micje> agl: OSX 10.6
02:12 <+rsc9> Eridius: sorry, different model
02:12 < micje> i686-apple-darwin10-gcc-4.2.1 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Apple Inc.  build
02:13 < Eridius> rsc9: ah thanks
02:13 < mpurcell> Will Go be ABI compatible with C?
02:13 < soul9> make.bash: line 10: /home/user/dev/golang//src/Make.: No such
file or directory
02:13 <+agl> mpurcell: you can compile C code with 6c and link it in.
02:13 < soul9> :(
02:13 < mpurcell> Ah
02:13 <+agl> soul9: set GOOS and GOARCH correctly
02:13 <+rsc9> soul9: export GOARCH GOOS GOROOT
02:13 < soul9> i have, GOOS=Linux
02:13 < mpurcell> agl: so to use a C library i need to write a wrapper and
compile it in?
02:13 < micje> but it sounds more like a weird bash issue
02:13 < soul9> oh GOARCH mmm
02:13 <+robpike> mpurcell: answered in http://golang.org/doc/go_faq.html
02:13 <+agl> micje: sorry, I'm stumped with your issue then.
02:13 < mpurcell> ah thx
02:13 < Eridius> actually, that doesn't really help.  I'm assuming that hg
has no idea what my name/email is.  How do I teach it that?
02:13 < soul9> sorry and thanks
02:13 -!- mennis [n=mennis@adsl-065-012-170-146.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined
02:14 <+agl> soul9: no problem
02:14 < Eridius> ah, `hg help environment`
02:14 <+rsc9> micje: message me the error privately
02:14 < benno> cool, the ARM executables crash objdump :)
02:14 -!- witeness [n=ryanmerl@c-69-138-211-106.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined
02:14 <+rsc9> eridius: edit $HOME/.hgrc to add
02:14 <+rsc9> [ui]
02:14 <+rsc9> username = Your Name <your@email>
02:14 <+rsc9> EOF
02:14 < witeness> hello all
02:14 <+rsc9> (don't type EOF)
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02:15 < Eridius> rsc9: thanks
02:15 < flea__> my understanding of this
http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#concurrency is that concurrent processes
cannot share a common resource (concurrently), is that correct?
02:15 <+agl> benno: the ELF files generated often exercise rarely used parts
of tools.  Valgrind dies without patches too.
02:15 -!- resistor [n=theresis@c-98-237-248-99.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined
02:15 <+agl> flea__: you should read the memory model for the semantics but,
basically, yes
02:15 < benno> agl: cool :) time to dust of my own disasm then
02:15 <+rsc9> eridius: also it shouldn't matter what mercurial thinks of you
so you can carry on if you want
02:15 < opensourcenut> when compiling the example webserver I get the errors
undefined: template.HtmlFormatter, undefined: template.HtmlEscape
02:16 < benno> agl: assuming there aren't any other disasm/debuggers?
02:16 <+agl> flea__: if all else fails, mutexes are available.
02:16 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: s/Html/HTML/ sorry
02:16 < Eridius> rsc9: I just don't want warnings every time I try and do
02:16 < mpurcell> eh...  dial unix /etc/: connection refused", want match
for `dial unix /etc/: (permission denied|socket operation on non-socket)
02:16 < witeness> ok i have a question.  I'm trying to build go on mac os x
but i don't seem to have "quietgcc"...  what is that and how do i get it?
02:16 <+agl> opensourcenut: there's a bug in the capitalisation in the
02:16 < mpurcell> That confused me
02:16 < mpurcell> :p
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02:16 <+agl> opensourcenut: HTML rather than Html I believe.
02:16 < mpurcell> witeness: export PATH=$PATH:$GOBIN
02:16 <+rsc9> witeness: hg pull -u and run all.bash again
02:17 <+agl> witeness: mkdir $GOBIN and make sure that GOBIN is in your path
02:17 < witeness> ok
02:17 <+agl> witeness: quietgcc is a script created at the top of
02:17 < Eridius> oh great, agl, ignore my patch
02:17 <+agl> witeness: make.bash rather
02:17 < Eridius> it works on empty files, but it's having issues on
non-empty files now >_<
02:17 <+agl> Eridius: ok.  You should hg change -d it then.
02:17 < benno> does .gosymtab need to be in the running image?
02:17 < mpurcell> net.TestDial error failed with the above.
02:17 * benno is trying to port to a non-linux os
02:17 <+agl> Eridius: (unless you intend to update it later)
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02:17 < flea__> agl: thanks, so if I had some kind of container (to take a
query value and look up a return value for eg), then I would either need to *make*
a copy of it for each goroutine or access it sequentitally or break go philosophy?
02:18 < Eridius> oh heh, I just deleted it but yeah ,I was intending on
fixing the issue
02:18 <+rsc9> flea__: or use a lock
02:18 * Eridius will re-submit when he has a fix then
02:18 * flea__ looks up lock in doco
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02:18 <+agl> flea__: if you pass by value, it will be copied.  If you pass
by reference, then you need to make sure that two goroutines aren't accessing it
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02:19 < mpurcell> help: http://pastebin.com/d7f83b91c
02:19 < benno> agl: is there an equiv of a linker script?  can I choose to
link at a different virtual address?
02:19 < mpurcell> please*
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02:19 <+agl> benno: on ARM?  You would have to ask Kai.
02:19 < wcn> If I have a few thousand goroutines (one per object, sitting on
a channel to synchronize access), how concerned should I be about the stack
consumption versus just using a lock?
02:19 < flea__> agl: and I can synchronise concurrent access to it with a go
Mutex I assume
02:20 -!- KillerX [n=anant@gentoo/developer/KillerX] has joined #go-nuts
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02:20 < flea__> er ...  non-concurrent access
02:20 <+agl> mpurcell: what platform?
02:20 <+rsc9> mpurcell: uname -a
02:20 < mpurcell> x86 Linux
02:20 < mpurcell> Linux xps 2.6.31-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 23 11:12:58
CEST 2009 i686 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T8300 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
02:20 <+agl> flea__: using a mutex should be considered a sign of failure :)
02:20 < opensourcenut> agl: what locking mechanisims like that are in the
language for concurrent access
02:20 <+rsc9> beno: no
02:20 <+rsc9> benno: no
02:20 < flea__> :'(
02:20 < benno> agl: yeah, on arm, I guess I can start hacking myself...
running on a single-address space operating system, so fixed address are a bad
thing (tm)
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02:20 <+rsc9> opensourcenut: http://golang.org/pkg/sync
02:21 <+rsc9> benno: you probably don't have floating point either
02:21 < benno> rsc9: mm, ok, I assume I can hack source code to make that
02:21 <+agl> opensourcenut: you should copy values that you wish to share.
Or pass a reference and ownership at the same time.
02:21 < flea__> ^^ what opensourcenut said
02:21 <+rsc9> benno: sure.
02:21 < benno> rsc9: don't care about floats :) I don't have a floating
point unit anyway :)
02:21 <+agl> opensourcenut: Effective Go on golang.org answers this better.
02:21 < benno> rsc9: is the .gosymtab special?
02:21 -!- RastusRufus [n=Elwood12@c-24-16-250-248.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined
02:21 < benno> rsc9: it seem to be loaded at a ..  .weird adress
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02:21 * flea__ looks up ownership passing
02:21 * opensourcenut me too flea__
02:22 -!- gavin___ [n=gavin@d24-141-19-72.home.cgocable.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:22 <+rsc9> benno: yes, it is special.  yes, it is loaded at a weird
address.  arm is still not quite finished.  you shouldn't expect to have an arm
binary running today.
02:22 <+agl> mpurcell: maybe the kernel return ERRNO value changed.  Hmm.
02:22 < mpurcell> I will try to reexecute all.bash
02:22 < benno> rsc9: ok cool, espcially on a non-linux OS I guess :)
02:22 < gavin___> so i am getting an error when I make lib9.  my $GOBIN is
set and exists
02:22 < gavin___> any other pointers?
02:22 < opensourcenut> agl: where is this ownership documented at?
02:23 <+agl> mpurcell: could you `cd src/pkg/net` and `strace -o /tmp/trace
-f gotest`?
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02:23 <+agl> opensourcenut: ownership is in the mind of the programmer.
02:23 < mpurcell> yep, lemme just wait for it to fail
02:23 <+agl> gavin___: please use a pastebin and give all the context.
02:23 < opensourcenut> agl: Oh, you made it sound as if there was a
parameter you could pass to specify ownership
02:24 -!- deadlycheese [n=tfolger@c-75-70-207-113.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined
02:24 <+agl> opensourcenut: no, nothing like that.  You should read
Effective Go :)
02:24 < Eridius> ok agl, http://codereview.appspot.com/153053
02:24 < flea__> I am reading it
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02:24 < gavin___> agl: http://pastebin.com/m25538c76
02:24 < flea__> it would appear that the philosophy is geared towards
stateless machines
02:24 <+rsc9> agl: http://codereview.appspot.com/152051
02:24 <+agl> Eridius: have you done the
http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html#copyright bits?
02:25 <+agl> rsc9: LGTM
02:25 < soul9> gavin___: include $GOBIN in your path?
02:25 < Eridius> agl: not yet.  I wasn't sure if a 1-line fix to an emacs
mode really counted as contributing :p
02:25 <+agl> gavin___: mkdir $GOBIN and make sure that it's in your path
02:25 -!- pjina3 [n=pjina3@231.169.66-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:26 <+agl> gavin___: (sorry if you've been though that already.  I'm
loosing track of people.)
02:26 <+agl> Eridius: any patch counts :)
02:26 < Eridius> pfft
02:26 < Eridius> fine
02:26 < witeness> ok, i did what you guys said, and it says i still don't
have quietgcc.  heres my .bash_profile http://pastie.org/693073
02:26 < danderson> Eridius: the cool thing is that the ICLA can be filled
out online in about 20 seconds
02:26 < gavin___> agl: no problem.  i did that, the dir exists
02:26 <+agl> Eridius: you should send CONTRIBUTORS CLs to rsc
02:26 < danderson> well, plus a couple of minutes to read what you're
signing, obviously :)
02:26 < KillerX> gavin___: you didn't add $GOBIN to your path
02:26 < deadlycheese> sorry if this has been answered already - need help
with this error (received while making the distribution):
02:26 < deadlycheese> gopack grc _test/archive/tar.a _gotest_.6
02:26 < deadlycheese> make[2]: Leaving directory
02:26 < deadlycheese> gotest: error: no tests matching Test([^a-z].*)?  in
02:26 < deadlycheese> make[1]: *** [test] Error 2
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02:27 < gavin___> KillerX: I did export GOBIN=$HOME/bin
02:27 < Eridius> agl: and I really have to put myself in AUTHORS as well?
02:27 -!- cbarrett [n=Adium@adium/cbarrett] has joined #go-nuts
02:27 < soul9> witeness: did you export path in the current session?
02:27 <+rsc9> deadlycheese: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=7
02:27 <+rsc9> not sure yet
02:27 <+agl> deadlycheese: several people have reported that.  It's
02:27 <+agl> Eridius: if it says so
02:27 < witeness> soul9: i don't understand what you mean
02:27 -!- fivebats [n=anonymou@c-76-115-189-78.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined
02:27 < KillerX> gavin___: `which quietgcc' gives a valid path?
02:27 < deadlycheese> thanks all, much appreciated.
02:27 < witeness> ohh
02:28 < soul9> export PATH⋯
02:28 -!- Rob_Russell [n=chatzill@206-248-157-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined
02:28 < mrd`> How does go handle out-of-memory conditions?
02:28 <+agl> witeness: export PATH=$ isn't familiar to me, but it might be
02:28 < gavin___> KillerX: was that meant to be executed?  because i did and
nothing was outputted
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02:28 < flea__> is go suitable for writing server daemons, or is it more for
pipeline processing?
02:28 < Eridius> ok http://codereview.appspot.com/153055
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02:29 <+agl> mrd`: I've never pushed it there, I'm actually not sure.
02:29 -!- naderman [n=naderman@phpbb/developer/naderman] has joined #go-nuts
02:29 < soul9> well, just setting path doesn't seem to do it for me, i need
to export it.
02:29 < KillerX> gavin___: yep.  so that means you have a problem with your
$PATH.  Look in $GOBIN to see if quietgcc is actually there?
02:29 <+agl> flea__: very suitable for servers
02:29 < witeness> agl: one of the other people told me to do that
02:29 <+agl> witeness: probably you want a clean terminal and export
02:29 < KillerX> rsc9: I get an error for the libnet tests, already
reported?  http://pastebin.com/m666cac6f
02:29 < cbarrett> Congrats on the release, guys.  Looks like a fun systems
language.  I think some of the design choices aren't suitable for application
development, but you can't fault someone for not accomplishing what they didn't
set out to do, eh?  ;)
02:29 -!- keishi [n=keishi@h116-000-230-016.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #go-nuts
02:29 <+agl> KillerX: fixed on trunk.  hg pull -u
02:30 < KillerX> agl: thanks!
02:30 < gavin___> KillerX: quietgcc is actually there
02:30 < Eridius> btw agl, is there any way of changing the primary email
associated with my google account to not be my @gmail.com one?  I've never figured
out how to do it, and it's getting rather irritating
02:30 < bizarrefish> hi, all
02:30 < flea__> agl: but don't servers store some kind of 'state' (like a
list of sessions) which would be shared between many concurrent processes (or
goroutines in go's case)
02:30 < mpurcell> agl: www.michaelpurcell.info/trace
02:30 < benno> rsc9: is there anyway to interface with inline assembler?
02:30 < KillerX> gavin___: ok that probably means your $PATH is wrongly set
02:30 <+agl> Eridius: you might need a new Google account for that.
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02:31 <+rsc9> benno: no, you'd have to write a .s file
02:31 < Eridius> :/
02:31 <+agl> benno: asm goes in a different file
02:31 < gavin___> KillerX:
02:31 < benno> cool, inline asm is (usually) kind of evil anyway
02:31 < gavin___> KillerX: that's the value of $PATH
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02:31 < KillerX> gavin___: which is wrong, there's no $GOBIN in there
($HOME/bin by default)
02:31 < benno> I goess I can add some intrinsics (?)
02:32 < mrd`> flea__: You just architecture your server slightly
02:32 <+agl> mpurcell: thanks.  The kernel really is returning a different
ERRNO.  Fix has landed in trunk.
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02:32 < witeness> doing export PATH=$ makes all my commands not work....
02:32 < gavin___> KillerX: so how do i add $GOBIN to $PATH?  im a bit of a
*nix noob
02:32 < mpurcell> agl: so a new check out will prolly fix?  thx dood
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02:32 < flea__> mrd`: is there an example of a daemon somewhere?
02:32 <+agl> witeness: yes, I would expect that.  You should open a new
terminal and start with a fresh environment.
02:32 < soul9> witeness: export PATH=$PATH:$GOBIN
02:32 < soul9> is the full command
02:32 < KillerX> gavin___: export PATH=$PATH:$GOBIN, provided $GOBIN is
02:32 <+agl> gavin___: export PATH=$GOBIN:$PATH
02:33 < soul9> the ellipsis at the end meaning⋯
02:33 < mrd`> flea__: For go, I'm not sure; I'm at least speaking from
experience writing web servers in Erlang.
02:33 < manveru> i still have test failures on linux/amd64:
02:33 < soul9> ⋯ that the sentence was not finished :P
02:33 <+agl> flea__: there's godoc, which serves golang.org.  Also there's a
very basic TLS server in crypto/tls
02:33 -!- chrome [i=chrome@] has joined #go-nuts
02:33 < deadlycheese> rsc9: I updated Issue 7 with the results of 'sh -x
02:33 < flea__> agl: thanks, I'll check it out
02:33 < soul9> witeness: sorry for the confusion
02:34 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 125 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 4 voices, 121
02:34 <+agl> manveru: no idea, but everything is already built and installed
by that point.
02:34 < flea__> mrd`: give me the basic filopastry ...  er ...  philospopht
02:34 < witeness> soul9: that makes everything break
02:34 < flea__> :P typing fail
02:35 < soul9> witeness: not in the same session, since your path is broken
there now
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joined #go-nuts
02:35 -!- OxB001 [n=mathieuc@bas1-quebec03-1279635746.dsl.bell.ca] has quit
02:35 < gavin___> i was just wondering where did the original implementors
start?  where do you start such a large project?
02:35 < benno> agl: any details on what is needed by the runtime?  I guess,
that is is a case of read the fscking source?
02:35 < manveru> i think it should go 'cd ../', instead of 'cd ../test'
02:35 -!- hiromtz [n=hiromtz@h166.p027.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts
02:35 < soul9> witeness: maybe you could try running your profile, or
running /bin/bash again
02:35 < witeness> ok well.  i still can't run ./all.bash cause i don't have
02:35 <+agl> benno: needed?  As in, does it use floats etc?
02:35 < mrd`> flea__: Have you written a web app with PHP?
02:35 < soul9> so your environment is recovered ;)
02:36 <+rsc9> benno: any subdirectory of src/pkg/runtime is a good place to
02:36 < flea__> mrd`: yes, but PHP is stateless
02:36 -!- debacle [n=chatzill@c-71-203-31-53.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined
02:36 < bobappleyard1> hey all, tried installing Go, make threw an error 2
while executing test
02:36 < soul9> witeness: what's your PATH?
02:36 < manveru> bobappleyard1: what's the error?
02:36 < mrd`> flea__: But you store state by sending messages to the
database.  You do the same thing in Erlang, except they're special (user-level)
processes responsible for storing different kinds of app-specific state.
02:36 <+agl> bobappleyard1: we have fixed a number of issues in the tests.
hg pull -u and try again.
02:37 < witeness> soul9: http://pastie.org/693073
02:37 < deadlycheese> bobappleyard1: probably
02:37 < witeness> er
02:37 < witeness> minus that last line
02:37 < witeness> i deleted that
02:37 < flea__> mrd`: yes.  the daemon I wrote in C++ stored some state
variables in std::map, which was then accessed by each processing thread
02:37 < soul9> witeness: then do export PATH=$GOBIN:$PATH
02:38 < bobappleyard1> manveru: it's with pkg/net
02:38 < bobappleyard1> manveru: throw: index out of range
02:38 < flea__> mrd`: what I am trying to understand is how that can be done
in go
02:38 < witeness> soul9: you mean in the terminal?
02:38 < soul9> (it's the stuff behind the 4 that counts ;)
02:38 < mrd`> flea__: Have one goroutine manage the map, and have others
send messages and get responses from it.
02:38 <+agl> bobappleyard1: probably already fixed.  hg pull -u
02:38 < soul9> yeah
02:38 < bobappleyard1> agl: i'll give it a go
02:38 < soul9> behind the $
02:38 < flea__> mrd`: oooh ...  yes ...  of course
02:38 < mrd`> flea__: I don't know if that's the best way, but that's how
you'd do it in Erlang, and it should work in Go.
02:38 < benno> rsc9: ok cool, seems pretty minimal newosproc, os_init, plus
a couple of locking functions...
02:39 <+rsc9> benno: yeah, it shouldn't be bad
02:39 -!- Chris [n=chris@unaffiliated/chris] has joined #go-nuts
02:39 < benno> rsc9: awesome, too easy!
02:39 < witeness> soul9: i'm really confused.  cause i do that and then
nothing works, and you guys tell me to start a fresh session.  so i do and then
i'm back to where i was to begin with
02:39 < soul9> no
02:39 < flea__> ok, and so the processing goroutines have a channel to/from
the map manager gorouting I guess
02:39 < mrd`> flea__: Yeah.
02:39 < soul9> you wrote export PATH=$
02:39 < mrd`> flea__: Analogous to how PHP processes have a connection to
your SQL database.
02:40 < soul9> I said export PATH=$GOBIN:$PATH
02:40 < mrd`> flea__: (That's the analogy I was trying to make earlier.)
02:40 < witeness> oh
02:40 < flea__> mrd`: I assume go manages concurrent access to the channel
02:40 < mrd`> flea__: I assume so too.
02:41 < witeness> i didn't see the gobin:$path before
02:41 -!- rog [n=rog@c-69-181-203-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:41 < mrd`> flea__: It'd be pretty useless if not.  :)
02:41 < bizarrefish> hi, im on fedora, and im having a problem compiling 6g.
I have downloaded the repo, and am running all.bash, but am getting errors.
http://pastie.org/693092.  help would be great.  all my env vars are set up
02:41 < soul9> i wrote it twice or three times, but no worries :)
02:41 -!- mpowers [n=Marshall@ool-4353cfd6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:41 < flea__> mrd`: would be good if agl could confirm that, but yeah
pretty useless otherwise
02:41 <+agl> flea__: currently I think channels have a global lock, but yea.
Channels are thread safe.
02:41 < flea__> orsum
02:41 <+rsc9> channels are thread safe; the global lock will go away
02:42 -!- mjard [n=k@] has joined #go-nuts
02:42 <+agl> bizarrefish: export GOARCH=x where x is 386 or amd64
02:42 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has left #go-nuts []
02:42 < witeness> ohh sorry soul9: it comes up blue for some reason, and
when you highlight me in the same line, the background is blue.  so i can't see it
02:42 < Jerub> bizarrefish: they're probably set in your env, but not
exported, do export GOBIN GOROOT GOOS GOARCH
02:42 <+rsc9> but if you are sharing something at the granularity of a map,
it's not required to use a channel.  for small things sometimes a lock is just
what you want.  channels are better for managing overall program structure than
single pieces of data
02:42 -!- vsmatck [n=smack@64-142-40-6.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:42 < bizarrefish> agl, ah, i sees :) i exported gobin, goroot, but not
the other two
02:42 < soul9> witeness: heh $fooyou cant see this hahaha :P
02:42 -!- hmmb [n=hmmb@] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:42 < bizarrefish> im silleh :(
02:43 < bizarrefish> ty
02:43 < witeness> soul9: actually i saw all of that for some reason
>.> its just gobin:$path that comes up blue haha
02:43 < mpurcell> agl: I checked out again and got the same error.
02:43 <+robpike> anyone written any go code yet?
02:43 -!- Suhail_ [n=suhaildo@adsl-76-254-63-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has
joined #go-nuts
02:43 < flea__> robpike: I'm waiting for the eclipse plugin ;)
02:43 <+agl> mpurcell: if you checked out with -r release, then you don't
get the trunk
02:43 < bobappleyard1> robpike: based on your presentation i've written a
little PEG thing
02:43 < mpurcell> agl: could it be that i should not be using hg to get the
trunk release (wrong url?)
02:44 <+agl> mpurcell: you can just omit the -r release to get the latest
02:44 < bobappleyard1> i've yet to see if it works though
02:44 < bizarrefish> hmm, i wonder what nacl/i386 is..
02:44 < mpurcell> ah, just copy-pasted the -r release by accident
02:44 < gavin___> how does GO interact with libraries
02:44 < mpurcell> thx dude
02:44 < bobappleyard1> agl: thanks your advice worked
02:44 < gavin___> like say gfx libraries
02:44 <+agl> bizarrefish: NaCl is Native Client.  That code doesn't work
02:44 < bizarrefish> ah, right.
02:44 -!- RazvanM [n=RazvanM@dazzler.isi.jhu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
02:44 <+agl> gavin___: there's an FFI for interacting with C libraries.
02:45 < bizarrefish> so there is gonna be a vm?
02:45 <+agl> gavin___: see misc/cgo/gmp/gmp.go
02:45 <+agl> bizarrefish: you could write one if you wished, but there are
no plans.
02:45 < pjina3> hi
02:45 -!- n[ate]vw [n=natevw@96-25-134-180.yak.clearwire-dns.net] has joined
02:45 <+agl> bizarrefish: Go compiles to machine code.
02:45 * uriel is waiting for the Plan 9 port ;P
02:45 < bizarrefish> yeah, but "native client" sounds like a vm/bytecode
thing to me.  (im probably wrong)
02:45 < bear> rsc9, posted a super simple all.bash patch to issues that adds
some basic checks for environment vars
02:46 <+robpike> bizarrefish: http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/
02:46 < pjina3> what is this error?  make.bash: line 20:
/home/pjina3/bin/quietgcc: No such file or directory
02:46 <+rsc9> uriel: why not get started instead?
02:46 * benno ponders the suitability of go as an OS kernel programming language
02:46 < sstangl> agl: I can't seem to get the code-login command to work;
"hg code-login" doesn't prompt me for a login; it terminates cleanly.
02:46 <+robpike> for go to work well nacl needs a couple of fixes but we
hope they'll arrive
02:46 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #go-nuts
02:46 < uriel> rsc9: I was just joking, I have been bussy reading docs and
watching rob's talk since the thing came out, I'm certianly going to get started
before I fall asleep ;)
02:47 <+agl> sstangl: ping rsc9 for issues like that.
02:47 <+robpike> benno: i think go would make an interesting kernel
language.  you'd have to make some decisions about garbage collection.  you could
even turn it off
02:47 < bizarrefish> oo, i see.
02:47 < sstangl> rsc9: I can't seem to get the code-login command to work;
"hg code-login" doesn't prompt me for a login; it terminates cleanly.
02:47 <+agl> pjina3: make sure that $GOBIN exists and is in your PATH
02:47 -!- ddahl [n=ddahl@adsl-99-25-119-88.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined
02:47 < pjina3> ok
02:47 < kaib> benno: i'm certainly going to attempt simple os/kernel hacking
on embedded hardware.
02:47 < n[ate]vw> anyone else getting a "throw: index out of range" during
build after 'cd net && make test'?
02:48 < Jerub> n[ate]vw: yes.  it's issue #2 i think.
02:48 < bobappleyard1> n[ate]vw: that's the same as the error i got, hg pull
-u sorted me
02:48 <+rsc9> sstangl: pretend it worked and keep going
02:48 -!- gnomon
[n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined
02:48 < uriel> robpike: would go2dis make sense?  or does go runtime
completely obviate dis?
02:49 < rog> read/write-only chans are lovely
02:49 < Quadrescence> Is it possible I could get that Go guy in higher
resolution? :D
02:49 < jamesr> the gopher?
02:49 < Quadrescence> Yes
02:49 < n[ate]vw> bobappleyard1: trying now, thanks (and looking into issue
02:49 <+agl> Quadrescence: see the images in the doc directory
02:49 <+rsc9> $GOROOT/go/doc/gordon
02:49 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+o agl] by ChanServ
02:50 -!- agl changed the topic of #go-nuts to: Go: http://golang.org | Please use
a pastebin (like pastebin.com) and include all context when reporting errors
02:50 < Quadrescence> GOrdon, GOpher.  You Google people are just too
02:50 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-o agl] by agl
02:50 -!- eck [n=user@unaffiliated/eck] has joined #go-nuts
02:50 < rog> chan<-(<-chan int)
02:50 < bobappleyard1> is there any serious distinction between structures
and references to structures?
02:50 -!- bpalmer [n=user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #go-nuts
02:50 < ddahl> anyone else get 'make.bash: line 10:
/home/ddahl/code/go/src/Make.: No such file or directory' running all.bash on
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02:51 -!- cce891ed [n=chtr@freya.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu] has joined #go-nuts
02:51 <+rsc9> bobappleyard1: one is not a pointer, the other is
02:51 < bobappleyard1> does it matter though?
02:51 <+rsc9> ddahl: export GOARCH GOOS GOROOT
02:51 < deadlycheese> ddahl - yes, you need to set GOOS and GOARCH
02:51 < eck> is it correct that go does not have exceptions (a la python,
java, ...)?
02:51 < sstangl> rsc9: what is the procedure for listing reviewers?  The
commit is a small change to the bash scripts.
02:51 < ddahl> thanks
02:51 <+robpike> rog: hey thanks.  spent ages fussing over them
02:51 <+rsc9> sstangl: you can list me or agl.  see also
02:51 <+robpike> the go guy is named gordon and there are hi res versions
under go/doc/gordon
02:52 <+agl> bobappleyard1: in usage, there's no different.  However,
non-pointer structures are passed by value.
02:52 < sstangl> rsc9: already added.  Thanks.
02:52 -!- whakojacko [i=43ab40c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-ahknsgedeqdvjkxd] has
joined #go-nuts
02:52 <+robpike> a structure is a value.  a reference (pointer) to a
structure is a pointer.
02:52 -!- gavin___ [n=gavin@d24-141-19-72.home.cgocable.net] has quit ["Lost
02:52 < bobappleyard1> agl: so if i assign it to a variable it assigns the
02:52 -!- MarkBao [n=MarkBao@pool-98-110-164-56.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has
joined #go-nuts
02:52 < bobappleyard1> no identity etc?
02:52 <+robpike> if your function takes a struct it will receive a copy.  if
it takes a pointer it will share the copy
02:52 < rog> robpike: nice syntax too.  i wondered for ages how to do them
in limbo
02:52 < mpurcell> agl: new error: http://pastebin.com/m16ec0f7c
02:52 < bobappleyard1> robpike: ok thanks
02:52 < mpurcell> another failed test
02:52 < Eridius> ok agl, I've separated my emails into separate google
accounts and resubmitted my patch as 153056.
02:53 -!- ed1t [n=edited@unaffiliated/ed1t] has joined #go-nuts
02:53 < bobappleyard1> robpike: as i suspected
02:53 < gnomon> Are there public logs for this channel up anywhere yet?
02:53 <+agl> mpurcell: could you do the strace thing again?
02:53 < rog> was there any reason to leave out the : in typed var decls, or
just brevity?
02:53 < mpurcell> yep
02:53 -!- seakazam [n=jc@c-71-198-182-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:53 <+robpike> ken didn't want colons
02:54 -!- fqhuy [n=huy@] has joined #go-nuts
02:54 < ed1t> I am trying to install it on mac but its giving me the
following error make.bash: line 20: /Users/ed1t/bin/quietgcc: No such file or
02:54 <+robpike> that meant we needed var as a keyword but that cleaned up a
lot of stuff
02:54 < vsmatck> I'm getting "make: quietgcc: Command not found" on debian
02:54 -!- philcrissman [n=philcris@c-75-72-98-108.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined
02:54 < fqhuy> ed1t: create ~/bin and try again
02:54 -!- nonet [n=nonet@c-69-181-203-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:54 < vsmatck> Maybe same problem as ed1t?
02:54 < fqhuy> vsmatck: do the same thing
02:54 < mpurcell> agl: www.michaelpurcell.info/trace
02:54 < pjina3> ok, installation done thanks agl :)
02:55 <+agl> pjina3: no prob
02:55 < vsmatck> fqhuy!  Thanks!  It's there but my path is messed up.  :)
02:55 <+agl> vsmatck: ed1t: you need $GOBIN to exist and to be in your PATH
02:55 < manveru> i can't find any information about whether functions can
take blocks/closures/lambdas/...
02:55 < fqhuy> hi everybody, I tried to compile Go under Fedora 12 and got
the error error: no tests matching Test([^a-z].*)?  in _test/archive/tar.a
02:55 <+robpike> functions are closures.  they just work.  have fun
02:55 < Jerub> fqhuy: reported bug, issue 7
02:56 <+agl> manveru: you can write a func inline and it's a closure
02:56 < flea__> any plans to add += -= *= operators?
02:56 -!- tommost [n=tommost@] has joined #go-nuts
02:56 <+agl> fqhuy: known issue, no ideas yet.
02:56 < Jerub> fqhuy: i'm seeing the same problem on fedora 11.
02:56 < manveru> agl: ah, thanks
02:56 <+robpike> += etc are there
02:56 -!- codo [n=codo@ip70-185-104-229.ga.at.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:56 -!- foof [n=user@FL1-119-239-38-70.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #go-nuts
02:56 <+robpike> &^= too
02:56 < codo> phew.
02:56 < gnomon> Heya, foof.
02:56 < foof> hey
02:56 < fqhuy> Jerub: agl no solution ??
02:56 < rog> robpike: currently that syntax is my main obstacle when reading
go code...  particular when both var and type are single letters.  i have to think
"no, it's not C"!
02:56 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+o agl] by ChanServ
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02:56 < manveru> wondered how to avoid the annoying for {} statements, that
might be a way to abstract iteration :)
02:56 -!- agl changed the topic of #go-nuts to: Go: http://golang.org | Bug
tracker: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/list | Please use a pastebin (like
pastebin.com) and include all context when reporting errors
02:57 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-o agl] by agl
02:57 < flea__> robpike: can't see them here
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Operators ?
02:57 <+agl> mpurcell: looking
02:57 < mpurcell> agl: context was GOROOT of /opt/go with GOBIN /opt/go/bin
02:57 < Jerub> fqhuy: the tests occur after installation, it's actually
installed but the tests aren't running
02:57 < mpurcell> np dude
02:57 -!- brontide [n=brontide@cpe-74-70-32-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined
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02:57 < sstangl> rsc9: is your commit nick also rsc9?
02:58 -!- deadlycheese [n=tfolger@c-75-70-207-113.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined
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02:58 < fqhuy> Jerub: so I can use Go now without any problems ?
02:58 <+agl> fqhuy: I've lost your context I'm afraid.
02:58 < Jerub> agl: the Test can't be found bug
02:58 <+agl> sstangl: rsc9 is rsc otherwise
02:58 < Jerub> fqhuy: unknown, but you should be able to compile and run
code at least.
02:58 <+agl> Jerub: rsc9 suspects that it might be a problem with UTF8 and
grep.  He's working on it with someone.
02:59 < mpurcell> hehe, you guys must be pounding back the energy drinks
with all of these questions.
02:59 -!- kaib is now known as foo_
02:59 < bizarrefish> ok, now i'm getting a lot further, but the runtime is
failing to build.  I end up a compiler, but no "fmt" module.  here is my env:
GOBIN=/home/lee/go_bin GOARCH=amd64 GOROOT=/home/lee/GO GOOS=linux/amd64
02:59 -!- foo_ is now known as kaib
02:59 < Jerub> ...
02:59 < sstangl> rsc9: "abort: error: Connection refused" upon hg change.
02:59 < bizarrefish> i get make[1]: *** No rule to make target `rt0.6',
needed by `_obj/runtime.a'.  Stop.
02:59 <+rsc9> sstangl: hg pull -u
02:59 <+rsc9> sorry
02:59 < fqhuy> hehe, so much people are interested in new PL
02:59 < joeyadams> lol, the speaker in the Go Google Tech Talk certainly has
a way of saying code quickly in words, particularly fmt.Fprintf(os.Stdout, "%s, ",
02:59 < codo> when it is from rob pike, it is natural fqhuy
03:00 <+rsc9> bizarrefish: pastebin a bigger error
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03:00 <+agl> mpurcell: are you root, or is the filesystem otherwise odd?
03:00 < mpurcell> root
03:00 -!- OxO [n=mathieuc@bas1-quebec03-1279635746.dsl.bell.ca] has joined
03:00 < mpurcell> install globally
03:00 < mpurcell> in /opt
03:00 <+agl> bizarrefish: GOOS is wrong
03:00 < Jerub> okay, trivial fix i just tried didn't work.
03:00 < foof> yay, strings are immutable!  :)
03:00 < bizarrefish> agl, it is?
03:00 < mpurcell> than going to make it root:users with approp modes
03:00 -!- apetrescu [n=apetresc@] has joined #go-nuts
03:00 < mpurcell> but atm just root
03:01 <+agl> bizarrefish: GOOS=linux, no '/'
03:01 <+agl> bizarrefish: although I'd be interested to know where you got
the linux/amd64 because you aren't the first person we've confused with that.
03:01 < bizarrefish> oh...i think i see where i misread.  oop.
03:01 < brontide> anyone get it to build on Centos5?  I get a "throw: index
out of range" and then lots of debugging
03:01 < bizarrefish> agl: http://golang.org/doc/install.html#tmp_41
03:01 -!- paulsmith [n=paul@c-69-251-254-163.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined
03:01 < mpurcell> agl: The valid combinations are linux/amd64, linux/arm,
linux/386, darwin/amd64, darwin/386, and nacl/386.
03:02 <+agl> mpurcell: I think the test is failing because you're root and
can ignore DAC permissions.
03:02 < mpurcell> ^thats a quote from install page
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03:02 < mpurcell> agl: Ah, okay, I will install as a normal user
03:02 <+agl> brontide: hg pull -u
03:02 < bizarrefish> I see how i have got confused, it's still my bad
though, i should have read it better.
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03:02 < chrome> Is there any documentation on the "foreign function
03:03 < sstangl> rsc9: great!  worked :)
03:03 -!- shawn___ [n=shawn@208-78-98-92.slicehost.net] has joined #go-nuts
03:03 <+agl> chrome: see misc/cgo/gmp/gmp.go
03:03 < chrome> agl: thanks
03:03 < pjina3> bye everybody
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03:03 < shawn___> has there been any mention of go on app engine?
03:04 -!- shawn___ is now known as shawn
03:04 < codo> so in which language is go implemented ?
03:04 < the1andonlycary> running ./all.bash yields "$GOROOT is not set
correctly or not exported", but env shows GOROOT set correctly...  any help?
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03:04 < kaib> codo: mostly c
03:04 < sfuentes> i'm guessing GOOS=linux works fine under cygwin?  is this
03:04 < codo> wow, wow!
03:04 -!- _Hicham_ [n=hicham@wana-170-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com] has joined
03:04 < kaib> codo: the compilers, libraries all in go
03:04 < codo> I see.
03:04 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined
03:04 < _Hicham_> i am having a hard time compiling go
03:04 < kaib> sfuentes: i don't think anyone has tried.
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03:04 < codo> compiler means the AST generator et al, lookup symbol table
implemetnation etc ?
03:04 < _Hicham_> this is the error i get : gotest: error: no tests matching
Test([^a-z].*)?  in _test/archive/tar.a
03:05 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v kaib] by ChanServ
03:05 < _Hicham_> does anyone knows how to solve that ?
03:05 < _Hicham_> nobody?
03:05 <+agl> _Hicham_: not yet, we're working on it.
03:05 <+rsc9> _Hicham_: no, nobody knows how to solve that
03:05 <+agl> _Hicham_: however, everything is built and installed at that
03:05 <+kaib> codo: yes, or i should qualify that answer.  the plan9 based
compiler chain is C, gccgo the gcc frontend is in c++.
03:06 <+rsc9> if you do cd $GOROOT/src/pkg/archive/tar; sh -x gotest
03:06 <+rsc9> then you will see the commands it is running
03:06 <+rsc9> (or look at $GOBIN/gotest)
03:06 <+agl> the1andonlycary: probably you need to export these variables?
03:06 <+rsc9> i think the 6nm | grep pipeline is not working.  if you can
figure out which piece isn't working, please do.  ;-)
03:06 < the1andonlycary> I have export GOROOT=$HOME/go in my ~/.bash_profile
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03:07 < rog> why doesn't indexing a string yield a character?
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03:08 <+rsc9> because a string is utf-8, so getting a character index is
03:08 < rog> (i.e.  a unicode code point)
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03:08 <+rsc9> (or O(i))
03:08 < rog> ok.
03:08 < vsmatck> Got it built on debian lenny.  :)
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03:08 < mpurcell> almost have it built on ARCH
03:08 <+rsc9> but you can do for i, c := range str { fmt.Printf("%d %c\n",
i, c) }
03:08 < rog> so you decided not to go the all-rune way unlike limbo
03:08 < mpurcell> friend is making a PKGBUILD for it
03:08 -!- Lenneth [n=Lenneth@S010600119502636d.wp.shawcable.net] has joined
03:08 < mpurcell> so it can be package managed
03:08 <+rsc9> rog: strings don't have to be utf-8 either, they just
typically are.
03:08 <+rsc9> they're not required to be
03:08 < rog> sure
03:09 < fqhuy> ya, just ran Go Helloword
03:09 <+agl> If you're waiting for me to answer or do something, I've
forgotten about it.  So ask again!
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03:09 < brontide> agl: thanks, that seemed to work.  "0 known bugs; 0
unexpected bugs"
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03:09 <+rsc9> agl: http://codereview.appspot.com/152055
03:09 < the1andonlycary> agl: I have export GOROOT=$HOME/go in my
03:09 < rog> is there a nice, cheap idiom for appending to a string?
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03:10 < sstangl> rsc9: that conflicts with the patch I just sent
03:10 < wurtog> hi, there is some plan to make a windows port of go ?
03:10 < sstangl> rsc9: http://codereview.appspot.com/152053
03:10 < mrd`> Hrm, I'm not convinced 'ulimit -m' does anything on OS X...
03:10 < sstangl> rsc9: I sent that to agl.
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03:11 < NelsonLaQuet> Has anyone put together a vim plugin for syntax
highlighting yet?
03:11 <+agl> the1andonlycary: I've forgotten your error, but do you have
GOOS and GOARCH set too?
03:11 < rog> oh.  no tuples?
03:11 <+rsc9> sstangl: i'd rather not make such a big change right now.  too
much is going on
03:11 <+agl> wurtog: no Windows plans at the moment.
03:11 < srichand> @NelsonLaQuet I just came into the room to ask that very
question :)
03:11 <+rsc9> rog: no, just parallel assignment
03:11 < NelsonLaQuet> hah
03:11 < wurtog> agl, ok.  thanks.
03:11 < the1andonlycary> agl: I have everything set
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03:11 <+agl> NelsonLaQuet: srichand: misc/vim/go.vim
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03:11 < sstangl> rsc9: it's the same as that code, except that the code
resides in a new file in a generic function.
03:11 <+rsc9> it touches a lot more files
03:12 < sstangl> that it does
03:12 < rog> so if i want a chan<-(int, <-chan int) i'd have to
declare a structure.
03:12 < sfuentes> agl: how about cygwin support?
03:12 < NelsonLaQuet> @ agl: ?
03:12 < rog> hmm.  i've always found tuples really great.
03:12 <+rsc9> because we're doing this so hurried and therefore error-prone,
i'd like to keep things as simple as possible.
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03:12 <+agl> sfuentes: it might work.
03:12 <+rsc9> rog: sorry.  ;-)
03:12 < KirkMcDonald> rog: Use a struct?
03:12 <+agl> the1andonlycary: does echo $GOROOT work?
03:12 < mpurcell> Compiled on ARCH 2.6.31 from trunk :)
03:12 < mpurcell> expect a pkgbuild soon
03:12 < KirkMcDonald> rog: Oh, that's what you said.
03:12 < mpurcell> thx all
03:12 < the1andonlycary> agl: yes, it does
03:12 < KirkMcDonald> rog: I'm just slow.
03:12 < NelsonLaQuet> I got it to compile in an ubuntu VM just fine - but is
there a Windows port in the works?
03:12 < manveru> mpurcell: working on it
03:13 < srichand> agl: Thanks!
03:13 < mpurcell> manveru: oh good
03:13 < mpurcell> :)
03:13 <+agl> NelsonLaQuet: there's a vim syntax file in the source tree at
that location.
03:13 < NelsonLaQuet> ah
03:13 < NelsonLaQuet> thanks :)
03:13 <+agl> NelsonLaQuet: no Windows ports in the works AFAIK.
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03:14 < rog> rsc9: just a bit surprised.  it seems like they'd fit into the
model very easily
03:14 < NelsonLaQuet> That's sad.  Windows is my primary OS and I feel kinda
left out.
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03:14 < vsmatck> Would it work in Cygwin?
03:14 <+agl> the1andonlycary: then GOROOT does not point to a Go source
03:14 < NelsonLaQuet> Didn't try
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03:14 <+rsc9> rog: i really haven't felt their lack
03:14 <+rsc9> give it a shot
03:14 <+agl> vsmatck: it might work in cygwin, but I've not tried.
03:14 < the1andonlycary> agl: It does.  But I just tried adding echo $GOROOT
into the beginning of make.bash and it was blank there
03:15 < rog> i will.
03:16 < rog> no time right now though, sadly
03:16 <+agl> the1andonlycary: sounds like you know enough to figure it out.
If you have it set correctly then I'm out of ideas.
03:16 <+agl> the1andonlycary: you could just hack make.bash and set it
03:16 < the1andonlycary> agl: thanks - I'm onto it
03:16 < rog> maybe i'll download it and have a play on the plane back to the
uk tomorrow
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03:17 < offby1> like Beer Nuts, but with extra Pike/Thompson goodness.
03:17 < Kniht> the1andonlycary: did you export GOROOT or just set it?
03:17 < the1andonlycary> export
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03:17 < the1andonlycary> Kniht: export
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03:18 < joeyadams> Hmm, I wonder if gccgo can compile go for PowerPC
03:18 < kuroneko> umm, is hg code-login supposed to do nothing after
following the instructions on the submission page?
03:18 < manveru> NelsonLaQuet: tell the obj-c people :)
03:18 < mrd`> Doh, amd64 but 386, not i386 for GOARCH?  :/
03:19 <+agl> mrd`: just 386
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03:19 < Sgeo> "# Hash tables are provided by the language.  They are called
maps.  "
03:19 < ddahl> i am wondering why those env vars are not sniffed
03:19 < Sgeo> Doesn't C++ have maps in the STL?
03:19 < manveru> but 386 runs on i686?
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03:19 < mrd`> agl: Yeah.  I built with amd64 on OS X, and so just assumed
i386 rather than 386.
03:19 < Kniht> Sgeo: yes
03:19 <+agl> manveru: yes
03:20 < the1andonlycary> Sgeo: C++ has maps in the STL, but they are
implemented as trees
03:20 < teedex> did anyone get go to compile on snow leopard (osx 10.2)
03:20 < the1andonlycary> Sgeo: not as hash tables
03:20 <+rsc9> snow leopard (10.6) works; 10.2 probably not
03:20 < Sgeo> Ah
03:20 <+agl> teedex: yes, it should work there.  You may wish to run hg pull
-u first.
03:20 * Sgeo is learning C++
03:20 <+rsc9> anyone having build problems: hg pull -u and try again
03:20 < teedex> agl: its been giving me make errors for some time now
03:20 <+agl> teedex: also, what Russ said.  10.2 isn't Snow Leopard :)
03:20 < Kniht> the1andonlycary: the STL also has hash_maps, and the stdlib
has unordered_maps
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03:20 < teedex> typo
03:20 * agl is going to get dinner
03:20 < wcn> 10.2 is PPC only, so no dice there.  ;-)
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03:21 < me22> hooray for CSP
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03:21 < Sgeo> Why is the syntax for types the opposite from C++?
03:21 < Sgeo> Is there a reason?
03:21 < philcrissman> was having trouble compiling on snow leopard; just did
hg pull -u, trying again...
03:22 < mpurcell> Sgeo: its not C++ :P
03:22 < uriel> Sgeo: I'm quite sure there is a reason for pretty mcuh
everything, read the language design FAQ and watch rob's presentation
03:22 < joeyadams> Does go have any database connectivity libraries?
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03:23 < eharmon> where it is pulling the hostname from?  my build is failing
a test because somewhere on my box the FQDN is set in place of the hostname
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03:24 < chrome> eharmon:
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03:24 < philcrissman> yay.  doing hg pull -u solved the compile problem.  :D
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03:24 < Guest77935> hello
03:24 < Guest77935> i have a question
03:24 < eharmon> chrome: no I'm failing a different test " FAIL:
03:25 < manveru> PKGBUILD for go-lang-hg:
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03:25 <+rsc9> eharmon: what is the output after the FAIL: line
03:25 < eharmon> rsc9: Hostname() = "c63.be", want "c63"
03:25 < Guest77935> im currenctly developing a software for our production
use, in D language
03:25 < manveru> atm installs simply into /opt/go-lang-hg, there may be
nicer ways but i don't know what it all needs exactly
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03:26 < Guest77935> Go looks interesting, and i cant really tell where D is
03:26 < Guest77935> so my question is
03:26 < brontide> website has "i, j = j, i; // Swap i and j." shoudn't that
be either prefixed with var or use the :=?
03:26 <+rsc9> eharmon: linux or darwin?
03:26 -!- jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #go-nuts
03:26 < kuroneko> and I'm sorry the http proxy support is fugly >_>
03:26 <+kaib> Guest77935: shoot, i've done quite a bit of d development.
03:26 < eharmon> rsc9: linux
03:26 < dougie> getting same error as :http://pastebin.com/m25538c76 ...
what is correct syntax for $GOBIN in .profile on 'lenny' box?
03:26 <+rsc9> brontide: that's an assignment not a declaration
03:26 < Guest77935> hai kaib
03:26 < dsymonds> brontide: no, because i and j are already declared
03:26 <+rsc9> eharmon: cat /proc/sys/kernel/hostname; /bin/hostname
03:26 < Guest77935> im doing production quality software not just for fun
03:27 < Guest77935> so is Go's syntax going to remain stable or still
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03:27 < drhodes> go's interfaces look a lot like haskell's type classes, is
that safe to say?
03:27 <+kaib> Guest77935: i think it's a pretty good guess that the syntax
will stay relatively stable.
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03:28 < eharmon> rsc9: ah yeah, the kernel doesn't agree with /bin/hostname
(this machine hasn't been rebooted since it was setup), proc says c63.be, hostname
says c63, I assume go is looking at proc then?
03:28 < Guest77935> thx, thats all i need to hear
03:28 <+robpike> syntax unlikely to change much.  maybe a new feature or two
but syntax is stable.  libraries will grow and change, of course
03:28 < Kniht> dougie: GOBIN=$HOME/bin; export GOBIN # if that directory
exists, though you'll have to relogin to see it from ~/.profile, you can also just
set it in a shell before running ./all.bash
03:28 <+kaib> Guest77935: there might be additions (union types) but the
base syntax hasn't changed much in the last 12 months or so
03:28 <+rsc9> eharmon: os.Hostname looks at proc, and the test expects it to
match the output of /bin/hostname
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03:28 <+kaib> what rob said.
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03:28 <+rsc9> eharmon: sounds like you know how to fix it: run hostname to
make it match the one in /proc
03:28 <+rsc9> ;-)
03:28 < Guest77935> good to hear :)
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03:29 <+robpike> i guarantee we'll manage to break people's code even
without changing the syntax.  but we'll try to let you know first...  it's early
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03:29 < eharmon> rsc9: yep, thanks, I should have figured it was something
of the sort
03:29 < mrd`> robpike: Does go have any facility for gracefully handling out
of memory conditions?  It seems to just SIGTRAP right now.
03:29 < Guest77935> nice
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03:30 < joeyadams> bartwe> Go doesn't support Java-style generics yet.
Don't you know some stuff about that?  Just wondering.
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03:31 <+gri> Guest77935: note that there's a tool (gofmt) that pretty-prints
source code.  In the unlikely case that the syntax should change, this tool will
make it very easy to convert existing files.
03:31 <+rsc9> joeyadams: http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html#generics
03:31 < mpurcell> gri: a vim syntax highlighter is included
03:32 < thingie59> Go is only single-threaded for now, right?
03:32 < mpurcell> look under misc
03:32 <+rsc9> mpurcell: gri knows
03:32 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined
03:32 <+agl> thingie59: no
03:32 < mpurcell> oh
03:32 < mpurcell> sorry, misread
03:32 < mpurcell> lol
03:32 < ote> ./test.bash: line 9: 11775 Floating point exception./hello
03:32 < thingie59> agl: proc.c "The default maximum number of ms is one: go
runs single-threaded."
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03:33 < bobappleyard1> what does this mean?  "peg.go:24: m.Match·Fail() used
as value"
03:33 <+agl> thingie59: but you can change the default and make it
03:33 < ote> (last line of output after running all.bash)
03:33 <+agl> ote: pastebin the source
03:33 <+agl> ote: oh
03:33 < thingie59> agl: It states that that is unsafe, due to the locking
not being completed
03:33 < srichand> Does anyone else get a segfault building it?
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03:34 <+rsc9> srichand: more info, pastebin, etc.
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03:34 < abbyz> so why is that, var s = ""; needs a semi-colon when declared
inside the scope of main but not when declared at the top-level?
03:35 < srichand> @rsc9 http://pastebin.com/m6fa76522
03:35 <+agl> bobappleyard1: I would need to see the source
03:35 <+rsc9> abbyz: because all toplevel declarations/statements begin with
a keyword so the semicolon is redundant.
03:35 < Guest4669> sorry, cant any1 point me to Go with C linkage example :P
03:35 < dsymonds> abbyz: top-level declarations are allowed to drop the
03:35 < Guest4669> *can
03:35 <+agl> thingie59: there are certainly still bugs, yes.
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03:35 < dsymonds> Guest4669: see the gmp example in the source tree
03:35 <+agl> Guest4669: misc/cgo/gmp/gmp.go
03:35 < Guest4669> thx
03:36 <+rsc9> srichand: ouch.  that's new.  please file an issue on the
issue tracker
03:36 < bobappleyard1> agl: i was being very silly nvm
03:36 < thingie59> When a goroutine sharing a thread blocks on a system
call, it implies that given multi-threading is enabled, the other goroutines are
migrated to non-blocked threads.  Am I understanding that correctly?
03:36 < abbyz> rsc9: ah, so that is why s:="" doesn't work at the top-level
either.  makes sense!
03:36 < srichand> rsc9: Oops,
03:36 < joeyadams> Sorry if I'm the million'th person who's asked this, but
does go work on Windows yet?  What's the status of it?
03:36 < srichand> will do
03:36 < dsymonds> joeyadams: no, it doesn't work on Windows (though maybe
Cygwin will work)
03:36 <+agl> joeyadams: there is no Windows support.
03:36 <+rsc9> joeyadams: no work has been done for Windows; maybe someone
will be motivated to do that.
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03:37 <+rsc9> cygwin won't work out of the box; go gets too deep into the
low-level pieces and also writes its own executables.
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03:37 < joeyadams> I wonder when go's going to be slashdotted.
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03:38 <+agl> thingie59: that's the plan
03:38 < manveru> where does go look up packages?
03:38 < manveru> it can't find fmt here
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03:38 <+robpike> $GOROOT/pkg
03:38 < thingie59> agl: How is the stack memory allocated for a goroutine
not thread bound?
03:38 -!- codedread [i=180dd699@gateway/web/freenode/x-hfpqdkiymyzzjodq] has
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03:38 <+robpike> thingie59: it's on the heap
03:39 < abbyz> manveru: it's import "fmt" and not import fmt
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03:39 < manveru> abbyz: well, latter would result in a syntax error anyway
03:39 < dsymonds> manveru: post your code to a pastebin
03:39 < manveru> thanks, might not have that in
03:39 < thingie59> robpike: There's no possibility of C frames being on a
goroutines stack (including pushed return addresses)?
03:40 < manveru> the src dir isn't needed for usage of go?
03:40 <+agl> thingie59: you can compile C code with [68]c and everything
will work.
03:40 <+agl> thingie59: but we don't share the standing calling convention,
so you need the FFI otherwise.
03:40 <+robpike> manveru: no source needed
03:41 <+robpike> thingie69: gccgo is nearly there too.
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03:42 < chrome> robpike: anyone working on debian/ubuntu packages for go?
03:42 < bobappleyard1> http://pastebin.com/m29e58932 <-- go is telling me
that this doesn't have a return statement
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03:43 <+agl> bobappleyard1: it's a known 6g bug.
03:43 -!- deadlycheese [n=tfolger@c-75-70-207-113.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined
03:43 < bobappleyard1> argh
03:43 <+rsc9> chrome: no.  things are changing fast enough that we'd suggest
just using hg and being willing to rebuild.
03:43 <+agl> bobappleyard1: (you need a return after the else block)
03:43 < bobappleyard1> ok
03:43 <+rsc9> bobappleyard1: file an issue.  it's a long-standing bug and we
mean to address it.  f
03:43 < codo> so robpike this go seeks to handle the problems of pthreads ?
03:43 <+robpike> chrome: not that i know of.
03:43 <+rsc9> bobappleyard1: for now, you can mark those places with
panic("unreachable") so you can find them later, when we do fix it
03:44 -!- fynn [n=fynn@unaffiliated/fynn] has joined #go-nuts
03:44 < bobappleyard1> rsc9: do what now?
03:44 < dougie> compiled to here - http://pastebin.com/m385ed7b5 any
suggestions?  thx
03:44 <+robpike> dougie: more context please
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03:46 < sstangl> robpike: are there plans for a debugger in the works?
03:47 < cheeaun> I'm getting errors when compiling
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03:47 <+robpike> sstangl: yes, a debugger is in the works.  not acid-like
03:48 <+agl> cheeaun: it's a DNS failure.  Have you a firewall or some such
that might be stopping the lookup?
03:48 -!- justinvh [n=justinvh@quarter.xorse.com] has joined #go-nuts
03:48 < manveru> so i have GOROOT=/opt/go-lang-hg and a file at
/opt/go-lang-hg/pkg/linux_amd64/fmt.a but it tells me that it cannot find the
package fmt
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03:48 <+robpike> cheeaun: that's a test failure.  compilations already done
03:49 <+agl> manveru: is GOOS==linux and GOARCH==amd64?
03:49 < cheeaun> agl: oh, just slow connection tho :/
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03:49 < manveru> agl: does that need to be set after building even?
03:49 <+agl> cheeaun: like robpike said, you can just ignore the test
failures.  Everything is already built.
03:49 <+agl> manveru: yes
03:49 < manveru> oh
03:49 <+robpike> makefiles needs those variables to find things
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03:49 * manveru adds note
03:49 < cheeaun> agl robpike: ok thanks :)
03:49 < joeyadams> Would it be correct to say that Go was developed "by
03:50 <+agl> joeyadams: by Googlers certainly
03:50 <+rsc9> bobappleyard1: inside the func(), after the else { ...  } you
can add panic("unreachable") to silence the warning
03:50 -!- eck` [n=user@adsl-76-199-96-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined
03:50 < joeyadams> I'm pretty sure it violates the license to say "My robust
product was made with Go, which was developed by Google" per the 3rd term of the
BSD license.
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03:50 < bobappleyard1> rsc9: oh ok
03:50 -!- hiromtz [n=hiromtz@h166.p027.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts
03:50 <+rsc9> cheeaun: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=5
03:50 <+agl> joeyadams: we do not give legal advice here for obvious
03:51 -!- plux [i=plux@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #go-nuts
03:51 < joeyadams> They're not so obvious to me.  Do you mean because IRC
isn't a sound form of evidence in case of a legal dispute?
03:51 < joeyadams> I was just wondering.
03:51 <+rsc9> the obvious reason is that we are not lawyers
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03:51 < joeyadams> ah
03:52 < Jerub> To say '..  made with Go, which was developed by Ken Thompson
and Rob Pike" would be accurate.
03:52 < cheeaun> rsc9: aha, thanks!
03:52 <+robpike> made by the Go authors
03:52 < srichand> rsc9: Segfault Issue 16 fixed itself after a hg pull,
thanks :)
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03:53 <+rsc9> srichand: thanks
03:53 <+agl> srichand: marking as fixed.
03:53 < Jerub> wait, that's exactly the same as saying 'by google' because
they're contributors.  oh well.  :)
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03:54 < plux> just watched the go techtalk, looks interesting!
03:54 <+agl> rsc9: we have a stream of bug reports that are fixed on trunk.
Should we bump the release tag?
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03:54 <+rsc9> agl: yes, soon
03:54 < srichand> rsc9: What's the equivalent for "foo" and "bar"?
03:54 < plux> is there an go mode for emacs yet?
03:54 < Eridius> agl: I want to submit another patch to go-mode.el, but
153056 is still pending.  How do I create a separate changeset for another hunk in
the same file?
03:54 -!- interskh [n=interskh@CMU-295532.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #go-nuts
03:54 < Eridius> plux: misc/emacs/go-mode.el
03:54 < plux> Eridius: omg :P
03:54 <+rsc9> eridius: you can't, not easily.
03:54 < Eridius> plux: note that I have a pending fix for turning on go-mode
in an empty buffer
03:54 < plux> Eridius: funny how you just mentioned it, i'll check it out
right away
03:55 < plux> ok
03:55 -!- deus13 [i=boris@15.30.internet.uqam.ca] has quit ["Quitte"]
03:55 < plux> Eridius: are you the author of it?
03:55 <+agl> Eridius: did you get a patch landed to add yourself to the
03:55 < Eridius> plux: no
03:55 < Eridius> agl: yeah
03:55 < joeyadams> is go in pre-Alpha?
03:55 <+agl> Eridius: hang on 2 secs then.
03:55 < Eridius> agl: thanks
03:56 <+agl> joeyadams: Alpha and beta have little meaning around Google :)
03:56 < teedex> anyone have http test redirect fail ?
03:56 < patryk_> Hello - I'm getting "can't find import: fmt", even when
using -I with the 8g compiler (on Mac OS X)
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03:56 <+agl> patryk_: make sure that GOROOT, GOARCH and GOOS are set
03:57 < patryk_> agl: thanks
03:57 < teedex> " Get http://codesearch.google.com/: dial tcp
codesearch.google.com:http: lookup codesearch.google.com.  on no
answer from server"
03:57 <+agl> patryk_: you should have $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_$GOARCH/fmt.a
03:57 < teedex> any idea why that is going to an internal / class c ip
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03:58 <+rsc9> teedex: cat /etc/resolv.conf
03:58 <+agl> rsc9: hg clpatch 153056 failing with "error looking up
xyz@xyz.org: cannot parse result"
03:58 <+agl> teedex: it's your DNS server
03:58 <+rsc9> agl: which cl do you want me to submit?
03:58 <+agl> teedex: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=5
03:58 <+rsc9> i am still working out bugs
03:58 < jamesr> what datatype should you use to refer to a single UTF-8 code
03:58 <+agl> rsc9: 153056 please.  I'll LGTM now.
03:59 <+agl> jamesr: int I believe
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04:00 < teedex> rsc9: yupp that was the issue ...  i wonder when i set it or
it got set
04:00 < antarus> teedex: networkmanager or dhcp on a recent distro
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04:00 < antarus> er, dhcp client that is
04:00 <+robpike> jamesr: yes int
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04:00 < sanxiyn> Watching tech talk
04:00 < sanxiyn> very impressive
04:00 < jamesr> and the language doesn't supply any way to do things like
'extract the 2nd code point out of this string'?
04:01 <+robpike> jamesr: you get int if you do for i, c := range s {}.  c
will be int
04:01 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
04:01 <+rsc9> jamesr: for arbitrary values of 2 that's an O(n) operation.
04:01 <+robpike> jamesr: libraries help but for...range is where it tends to
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04:01 < _Hicham_> hah, I had to disable the exit status in gotest
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04:02 < _Hicham_> now, it compiles good, though the test didn't pass
04:02 < jamesr> ah, i see
04:02 < Eridius> agl: I just submitted a new patch against go-mode.el
04:02 <+agl> jamesr: if you want fast, random access you should use a []int
04:02 < Sgeo>
04:03 < bobappleyard1> Sgeo: you laugh now..
04:03 < patryk_> agl: Confirmed, my environment vars not being correct was
the problem, thanks!
04:03 <+robpike> strings.Split and/or strings.Map can help you unpack a
string into []int
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04:03 <+agl> patryk_: np
04:04 <+rsc9> eridius: hg sync
04:04 < Quadrescence> Does Go have functions as first class values?
04:04 <+agl> Eridius: great, thanks.  It appears that the patch landing
process is "ask rsc9" at the moment, but I'll LGTM the patch.
04:04 <+agl> Quadrescence: yes
04:04 < Eridius> woot, thanks
04:04 < Eridius> agl: hehe
04:05 <+rsc9> eridius: again; thank you.
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04:05 < abbyz> no tail recursion though, is that right?
04:05 < Eridius> alright, now let's hope that at some point I can actually
finish reading the Go docs instead of playing around with the emacs file ;)
04:05 < dougie> Hicham : can you paste your gotest changes?
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04:06 <+robpike> no tail recursion but it's been talked about quite a bit
04:07 < sanxiyn> Nice to see channels.  I always liked that.
04:07 < Eridius> go doesn't leverage llvm, does it?
04:07 < bobappleyard1> robpike: does that mean it's coming?  :)
04:07 <+robpike> tail recursion can make debugging harder but it's lovely
for some things
04:07 <+agl> Eridius: no LLVM yet.
04:07 <+robpike> go does not involve LLVM
04:07 < wcn> Eridius: no
04:07 < Eridius> darn
04:07 <+robpike> bobappleyard1: no promises
04:07 < bobappleyard1> ok
04:07 <+agl> Eridius: however, I want LLVM to get Klee so I might re-purpose
the gccgo frontend at some point.
04:08 < Quadrescence> I don't blame it for not using LLVM.  The API, in my
opinion, is a disaster and needs C++.
04:08 < Quadrescence> "needs" C++ *
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04:08 < sanxiyn> Quadrescence: It doesn't?
04:09 < Quadrescence> sanxiyn: There's py-llvm and stuff.
04:09 < bobappleyard1> Quadrescence: i was put off llvm because of the c++
and the crazy ir
04:09 < sanxiyn> LLVM has C API and Mono did fine with using only C API.
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04:09 < bobappleyard1> it has a c api?  damn
04:09 < sanxiyn> Sure.
04:09 < Quadrescence> sanxiyn: Maybe I'm not with the times.  But it was
terrible in C++, it being the API and whatever.
04:10 < aldaor> hi , I'm getting this error when the tests are running
http://pastebin.com/m36403a29 any ideas?
04:10 < sanxiyn> Quadrescence: Time to update your info :)
04:10 < abbyz> yeah, fact(-1) just made me do a hard reboot
04:10 <+agl> aldaor: do hg pull -u and try again.
04:10 < sanxiyn> Now we need github highlighter for Go language :)
04:11 < Quadrescence> sanxiyn: Ah, yeah, there are C bindings
04:11 < Eridius> heh
04:11 < Eridius> we need a textmate highlighter
04:11 < sanxiyn> github first!!!  =3
04:11 < Quadrescence> Can we start an emacs/<inferior editor> war now?
04:11 <+agl> Eridius: TextMate stuff got emailed to the list
04:11 <+robpike> aldaor: try an hg pull -u and see if that helps.  there
have been some fixes this afternoon
04:11 < manveru> ooh, textmate
04:12 < Eridius> agl: ah
04:12 <+rsc9> just moved the release tag, so new checkouts should stop
seeing the common bugs
04:12 <+rsc9> (and see new common bugs)
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04:13 < Jerub> ooh, tests are running correctly now, good.
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04:14 < bobappleyard1> well smashing, all good fun
04:15 < bobappleyard1> my peg parser runs
04:15 < srichand> @aldaor I had the exact same error, a "hg pull -u" fixed
04:15 < bobappleyard1> see you chaps later!
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04:15 < plux> any go books planned?
04:15 < sstangl> rsc9: whatever changed, the build error I was having with
archives in _test has been fixed.
04:16 < id_sonic> I get error when install go here is output :
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04:16 < id_sonic> onlyone can help me?
04:16 <+rsc9> sstangl: great, yep we fixed that one
04:16 <+rsc9> id_sonic: you are probably behind some kind of firewall
04:16 <+rsc9> id_sonic: if you want you can ignore the error: everything is
04:17 < sanxiyn> Everything built & tested all right!  Nice.
04:17 <+agl> plux: I think the docs on the website are pretty good.  No need
for a book.
04:17 < sstangl> rsc9: http://fpaste.org/6MhT
04:18 < sanxiyn> agl: But, but...  no animals!  :(
04:18 < joeyadams> Is data passed through Go communication channels by
04:18 <+rsc9> sstangl: please file a new issue.  include the output of gcc
04:18 <+agl> sstangl: hmm.  That generally means that we failed to parse the
DWARF output
04:19 <+agl> joeyadams: a chan x passes by value
04:19 <+agl> joeyadams: you can equally well have a chan *x
04:19 < aldaor> thanks agl robpike and srichand , tests are good
04:19 < joeyadams> ah, so it can pass by reference, but doesn't have to.
04:19 < plux> agl: yeah the docs are impressive really, just wondered if a
book was planned :)
04:19 < sstangl> rsc9: what's the SVN base to use in the form?  gog?
04:19 -!- qwyeth [n=qwyeth@c-98-230-47-71.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit
04:20 <+rsc9> sstangl: what form?
04:20 < id_sonic> rsc9: thanks.
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04:20 <+agl> sstangl: SVN?  We use hg
04:20 < sstangl> rsc9: http://codereview.appspot.com/new, after clicking
"Create Issue"
04:20 <+rsc9> sorry i mean the issue tracker in the #go-nuts topic
04:20 <+rsc9> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/list
04:20 < sstangl> oh, ok.
04:20 < dougie> 0 known bugs; 0 unexpected bugs....  nice work folks
04:21 <+agl> sstangl: I don't see SVN on that page
04:21 <+robpike> no books planned but thanks for the nice words about the
04:21 < sstangl> agl: the "SVN base" field.  Maybe we are seeing different
things due to user settings.
04:21 <+agl> sstangl: I suspect so.  I which case you can leave it blank.
04:21 -!- digijohn [n=digi@cpe-72-230-244-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined
04:21 <+robpike> i'd rather write code than books at the moment...
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04:23 < digijohn> Hi Rob; Go looks interesting, I think I'll have to give it
a shot when I get a chance
04:24 * sanxiyn is reminded of
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04:24 < Quadrescence> robpike: I'd rather write books than code at the
moment [I'm pretty burnt out]
04:24 < uriel> robpike: I hope a book wont take as long to come out as the
Limbo book that you started writting and that we are still waiting to be released
04:24 < uriel> (the go docs are indeed excellent so far, just like the plan9
man pages are fantastic, only thing I'm missing so far is the BUGS sections :))
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04:25 < _Hicham_> how do i add packages dirs to 6g ?
04:25 < _Hicham_> *8g
04:25 < _Hicham_> can't find import fmt
04:25 < uriel> (Inferno/Limbo docs on the other hand have always been sadly
of rather poor quality)
04:26 < mjard> _Hicham_: need to make sure your $GOROOT $GOARCH and $GOOS
are set correctly
04:26 < codedread> go takes too long to build - how long until you're
self-hosting?  :)
04:27 <+rsc9> uriel: http://golang.org/pkg/http/
04:27 < uriel> it wont take long to build if you use ken's C compilers to
build it ;)
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04:27 < uriel> rsc9: ah!  I see, cool :)
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04:27 <+rsc9> codedread: you only need to build the compilers once.
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04:27 < codedread> rsc9: i was just joking :)
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04:27 < id_sonic> _Hicham_: GOROOT=~/test/golang/ GOOS=linux GOARCH=386
GOBIN=~/test/golang/bin PATH=~/test/golang/bin:$PATH ./all.bash
04:28 <+rsc9> id_sonic: that will run everything but you need those
environment variables set to run the compiler
04:28 <+rsc9> so you won't get too far after you've built things
04:28 < _Hicham_> i ve successfully compiled go
04:28 < _Hicham_> i am talking about the hello world example
04:29 <+iant> you need the environment variables when you run 8g as well
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04:29 <+robpike> yes everyone: just export those variables into your
04:29 <+rsc9> _Hicham_: do you have the environment variables set?  what is
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04:29 -!- jamesr [n=jamesr@nat/google/x-qmnubzjpdhizhpge] has quit []
04:29 < _Hicham_> rsc9 : ok, i will set them
04:29 < ggbgg> robpike: is it too late to get rid of all the uppercase?  :)
04:29 -!- paulbaumgart [n=paulbaum@cpe-66-75-245-65.san.res.rr.com] has joined
04:29 < joeyadams> how many people were in #go-nuts this morning?
04:30 < joeyadams> When I got here, there were about 50
04:30 <+iant> joeyadams: 0 or 1, I would guess
04:30 < codedread> ggbgg, robpike: i agree, i don't like the uppercase
method names
04:30 < sanxiyn> I actually like uppercase names.
04:30 < joeyadams> was that when the channel was created?
04:30 < sanxiyn> Like C#.
04:30 < codedread> but it's just a choice
04:30 <+iant> joeyadams: agl created it yesterday
04:30 < joeyadams> at
04:30 < joeyadams> ah*
04:30 -!- danielrf [n=cgibreak@pool-96-248-174-38.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has
quit ["leaving"]
04:30 <+robpike> the capitals are annoying for a while but then the
notational power they give you makes you miss them in other environments
04:31 <+robpike> no more snuffling around to find out whether a method is
04:31 < codedread> ah, i see
04:31 < wcn> I don't miss typing private and public at all.
04:31 <+robpike> or worse, waiting 10 minutes to have the compiler tell you
04:31 < wcn> shift is the new public.
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04:31 <+robpike> nice
04:31 < Kniht> robpike: how would you compare it to python's convention of
leading _ for non-public?
04:32 < jcowan> Well, it's enforced, for one thing.
04:32 < mrd`> Ew.
04:32 < codedread> so i'm very new to this - my hello,world C program
executable is 12k, my hello,world go program is 638k
04:32 <+iant> Go is statically linked
04:32 < codedread> my C program is linking to system libraries i guess
04:32 < codedread> yeah
04:32 < jcowan> Every language is a balance between configuration and
04:32 < Kniht> jcowan: honestly a minor issue for me, I hooked up my
computer to electrically shock me when using _* names inappropriately
04:32 < plux> can go be dynamically linked?
04:33 < _Hicham_> ever after setting GOROOT,GOBIN, GOOS, I can't compile
04:33 < uriel> plux: I hope not
04:33 <+iant> plux: not really, unless you use gccgo; gccgo generates
dynamically linked binaries
04:33 < _Hicham_> fmt always non found
04:33 < mjard> _Hicham_: what about GOARCH?
04:33 <+robpike> the packages are stored in $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_GOARCH/...
04:33 < mjard> _Hicham_: I only ask because I stumbled there as well, but
everything now works
04:33 < ajray> Is there a Go-flavored IDE?
04:34 <+iant> _Hicham_: what is your GOROOT?  Does $GOROOT/pkg exist?  What
is in $GOROOT/pkg?
04:34 <+iant> ajray: no
04:34 < ajray> or is everyone just using vim/emacs?
04:34 <+robpike> and the tools know that, so you must have them set to
04:34 < _Hicham_> mjard : thanks, it works
04:34 <+iant> ajray: not yet, anyhow
04:34 < jcowan> ajray: Yes, it's called "emacs".
04:34 < mjard> _Hicham_: :)
04:34 < digijohn> uff, IDEs
04:34 <+robpike> no IDE.  love to have someone do one
04:34 -!- javarants2 [n=Adium@c-24-6-187-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined
04:34 <+robpike> it could be lovely written in go and running on the web
04:34 < ajray> really, all i would like is tab completion on methods
04:34 < digijohn> robpike: I would think acme would be the IDE :)
04:34 < silassewell> So I'm getting a test error on darwin: "gotest: line
141: 61190 Trace/BPT trap" (http://gist.github.com/231555).  It shows up in a
couple of pastebins, anyone know what the issue is?  (P.S.  Is there a history of
the channel setup anywhere?)
04:35 < ajray> robpike: any chance Go project will be accepting GSoCers this
summer :-)
04:35 < digijohn> I'm so dependent on acme these days, it's pathetic...
can't get a damn thing done with vi or emacs anymore
04:35 <+iant> silassewell: try doing another hg pull -u, there have been
some fixes to the net test
04:35 -!- PhantmShado [n=Phantm@cpe-74-70-29-98.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined
04:35 < Metaphorically> komodo edit works fine for an ide (if you're not a
vi or emacs fan) and the c++ highlighting gets some colours on the screen
04:35 <+robpike> jeez we just launched.  next summer is far away.  but i
sure hope so
04:35 < joeyadams> My guess is that Go will waltz right thorough the
mentoring organization selection.
04:35 -!- Metaphorically is now known as Rob_Russell
04:36 < silassewell> iant: thanks, one update, testing now
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04:37 < btaylor> Congrats on the launch, Rob.  Looks really compelling so
far.  (This is Bret Taylor, btw).  This may have already been asked, but is there
an emacs mode?
04:37 <+iant> btaylor: misc/emacs/go-mode.el
04:37 <+robpike> hi bret!
04:37 -!- tagx [n=thomas@pool-71-178-10-152.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined
04:37 < ajray> anyone else working on vim highlighting of go syntax?
04:37 <+iant> ajray: misc/vim/go.vim
04:37 < wcn> ajray: it's in misc, iirc.
04:37 < ajray> thanks!
04:37 < btaylor> thanks
04:38 <+robpike> misc/emacs/go_mode.el i think
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04:38 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 158 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 5 voices, 153
04:38 -!- M32311 [n=m32311@68-186-182-171.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined
04:39 < M32311> Anyone have a minute for a noob question?
04:39 < mrd`> Whoa, there's already go-mode.
04:39 < ggbgg> chrome OS in go?
04:39 -!- tarpdocks [i=tarpdock@68-190-118-23.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined
04:39 <+iant> M32311: sure
04:39 <+iant> ggbgg: ChromeOS is not written in Go
04:39 < ajray> is there a go compiler in go?
04:39 < tarpdocks> sorry for the noob question, but what kind of
applications is Go intended to be used for?  ive heard it referred to as a
low-level language
04:39 < sanxiyn> ajray: Apparently not yet.
04:39 < M32311> iant: During build, I am getting make[1]: Leaving directory
04:39 < M32311> make: *** [net.test] Error 2
04:39 <+iant> ajray: there is a parser, but not a full compiler, yet
04:39 -!- dsymonds [n=dsymonds@] has joined #go-nuts
04:40 <+iant> M32311: try another hg pull -u; that test has problems on some
systems, and there have been a couple of patches
04:40 <+robpike> the language design faq has a little info about the
compiler technologies used
04:40 < ajray> iant: is the parser in the distribution?
04:40 <+robpike> yes
04:40 < M32311> iant: Thanks.  Apparently I have not researched enough then.
I really to appreciate.
04:40 <+robpike> pkg go
04:41 < sanxiyn> ajray: src/pkg/go/parser
04:41 <+iant> tarpdocks: Go is a systems language in that it compiles to
native code; we're not sure all the places that it could be useful yet
04:41 < tarpdocks> would it be appropriate for say, a device driver?
04:41 <+robpike> the web site http://golang.org is written in go.  all the
highlighting and presentation and document extraction is done from software in the
04:41 <+iant> in the kernel?  we'd have to sort out garbage-collection
issues first, so not at present
04:41 < antarus> wow that is unexpected
04:42 <+robpike> what is unexpected?
04:42 < ggbgg> $GOROOT/lib/lib9.a -- cute.
04:42 <+rsc9> silassewell: hg log -q -l 1
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04:42 < sanxiyn> robpike: curl -I http://golang.org/ says Server: Google
Frontend, but I guess that is to be expected.
04:42 < antarus> robpike: that you wrote the website in go
04:43 <+rsc9> sanxiyn: there's other google infrastructure in front, but in
the end, the pages are generated by http://golang.org/cmd/godoc/
04:43 <+robpike> there's an app engine caching thingy running in front of it
'cos that's easy.  but the real content is generated by a go program written by
robert griesemer
04:43 < antarus> robpike: ahh that answers that question ;)
04:44 -!- bengl [n=benglish@] has joined #go-nuts
04:44 < silassewell> iant: it looks like that update fixed it, off to
hacking on some example code, thanks
04:45 < silassewell> rsc9: fyi - 3976:cf1b54c30bc1 (after the pull)
04:45 <+rsc9> silassewell: great, glad it's working for you
04:46 < shawn> any chance app engine will support go soon?
04:46 < mjard> heh
04:46 * sanxiyn prays Go does not follow the path D went...
04:46 * uriel would give more than an arm and a leg for being able to run Go code
on App Engine...  anyone interested, add your stars here:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=2382 ;)
04:46 <+robpike> we really want to see that happen but no idea when
04:46 < ggbgg> swap upper/lowercase semantics..  file.Stdout.Write vs
04:46 < ggbgg> not even close
04:47 <+robpike> you mean File.stdout.write
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04:47 < ggbgg> right.
04:47 -!- drylight [n=diego@] has joined #go-nuts
04:47 < shawn> of course you'd have to limit channel and select lifetimes to
04:47 < jcowan> sanxiyn: What path is that?
04:47 < antarus> haha method naming is always a fun rabbit hole ;)
04:47 -!- resistor [n=theresis@c-98-237-248-99.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit []
04:47 <+robpike> exports capitalized makes more sense.  it takes some
getting used to, i admit, but it works well in practice
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04:48 < drylight> hi all
04:48 -!- Capso [i=none@about/networking/] has joined #go-nuts
04:48 < sanxiyn> jcowan: My main problem with D is unstablity, I guess.
04:49 < drylight> i was wondering if someone may be able to help me
installing go..  running all.bash, I am seeing the same error that Tom here is:
04:49 < shardz> This is insane amount of people for a channel created
04:49 < ggbgg> arthritis takes getting used to as well.  )
04:49 -!- igorgue [n=igorgue@] has joined #go-nuts
04:49 < fynn> sanxiyn: (are D and Go even in the same class of languages?)
04:49 < sanxiyn> fynn: They aren't?
04:49 < sanxiyn> fynn: D sure claims to be a system programming language
04:49 < vsmatck> I'd think they would be.
04:49 <+iant> drylight: I'm not sure what the problem is there, but note
that the compiler and libraries have been built by that point
04:50 < fynn> sanxiyn: kinda, but D seems to have a lot more features than
04:50 -!- esser [n=marceles@unaffiliated/cobol] has joined #go-nuts
04:50 <+iant> there have been some issues with the net client, that problem
might be fixed by hg pull -u
04:50 -!- taziden [n=taziden@flexiden.org] has joined #go-nuts
04:50 < drylight> ok so it's trying some network test (i'm guessing) but
things should be good by then?
04:50 <+iant> drylight: yes
04:50 < sanxiyn> fynn: Both does away with #include, which was my #1
complaint for C/C++.
04:50 <+rsc9> drylight: see my response on that thread
04:50 -!- no_mind [n=orion@] has joined #go-nuts
04:50 < drylight> iant: thanks.
04:50 < drylight> just wanted to make sure before proceeding.
04:50 < drylight> appreciate the tip
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04:51 < fynn> sanxiyn: (if you will, D is a C++ replacement, while Go looks
more like an alternative to C)
04:51 < benno> robpike: does capitalization make sense in charset other than
04:51 < ajray> whats the name of the gerbil/hamster, and why does it look
like glenda?
04:51 -!- mikeperrow [n=mikeperr@] has joined #go-nuts
04:51 < dsymonds> ajray: That's Gordon
04:51 < benno> robpike: is there a capital and lower-case 世
04:51 < dsymonds> ajray: He's a distant relative of Glenda
04:51 < sanxiyn> benno: No.
04:51 -!- Lenneth [n=Lenneth@S010600119502636d.wp.shawcable.net] has joined
04:51 < drylight> anyone from google on here?  would love a Go hamster
t-shirt.  if you put one up on the store i'd order right now :)
04:51 < dsymonds> ajray: he's actually a GOpher
04:52 < NelsonLaQuet> How do you encode a []byte into a utf-8 string?
04:52 < Capso> benno: Kanji doesn't have a concept of lower and upper cases
04:52 < devewm> i'd second the tshirt idea :)
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04:52 < digijohn> drylight: isn't a bit early to be wanting swag?  Maybe
give it *two* days?
04:52 < joeyadams> hmm, why import fmt "fmt" and not just import "fmt" ?
04:52 < joeyadams> (in the hello world example)
04:52 < digijohn> I know the world's all about loving Google stuff but you
can only go so far :)
04:52 < drylight> digijohn: i know, i know.  sorry.  :)
04:52 < dsymonds> joeyadams: you *can* just import "fmt"
04:52 < digijohn> joeyadams: it's just an example
04:52 -!- AryehGregor [n=Simetric@mediawiki/simetrical] has joined #go-nuts
04:52 < harryv> joeyadams: read on, you can do that.
04:52 < fynn> sanxiyn: feel free to correct me btw, this is based on very
short exposure to Go.
04:52 < digijohn> drylight: I'm just joshing ya :)
04:52 * benno wonders if the are counted as lower or upper for purposes of
exporting from a package
04:52 -!- ryoohki [n=ryoohki@] has joined #go-nuts
04:53 < Jerub> how soon until we have a go implementation in dot net?  ;)
04:53 < drylight> digijohn: nw, i know.  :)
04:53 -!- MarkBao [n=MarkBao@pool-98-110-164-56.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit
04:53 <+robpike> benno: no.  we are aware of the issue and are discussing
04:53 < benno> the lower vs upper does have a certain simplicity compared to
python's leading undercore
04:53 < benno> robpike: ok cool!
04:53 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: there are conversions string([]byte) and
04:53 < NelsonLaQuet> ...I'm trying to send in a var of type []byte that I
received from io.ReadFile and send it into a template; but it doesn't implicitly
04:54 <+robpike> given a []byte called v, just do string(v) to get a string
04:54 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: nothing implicitly converts in Go, explicit
conversion is always required
04:54 < jcowan> NelsonLaQuet: And by nothing, they mean NOTHING.  Not even
int vs.  long.
04:54 <+robpike> the spec says unicode class Lu is upper case.  all other L?
are lower case
04:54 * benno considers elf symbol table and unicode...  that might be a bit
04:55 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@53.250.sfcn.org] has joined #go-nuts
04:55 <+iant> benno: ELF symbol table is just null terminated byte
sequences, there is no big issue there
04:55 < NelsonLaQuet> thanks iant - that worked.  I tried C-style casting -
but it seems they reversed that syntax as well.
04:55 < joeyadams> thanks (dsymonds; digijohn; harryv; )
04:55 <+iant> indeed
04:55 -!- zachwill [n=zachwill@] has joined #go-nuts
04:56 < benno> iant: yeah, I guess that works, for some reason I was
thinking something other than UTF-8 encoding which would have had NULLs, but of
course is not a problem
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04:57 < jcowan> C-style casts are a pain for human beings to parse: you
never know how much of the following expression is in the cast, so you end up
writing (int)(whatever) anyhow.
04:57 < jcowan> So int(whatever) is actually simpler.
04:57 -!- digijohn [n=digi@cpe-72-230-244-190.rochester.res.rr.com] has left
#go-nuts ["Leaving"]
04:57 < benno> ahh · is being used as a separator
04:57 * benno is now scored about what other weird, difficult to type, characters
people will start using in API names
04:58 < Jerub> how are strings stored?  are they really unicode?  are they
04:58 < kuroneko> benno: beafraid when people start using stream-cyphers on
their api method names...
04:58 -!- QwertyM [n=harsh@unaffiliated/qwertym] has joined #go-nuts
04:58 <+iant> Jerub: UTF-8
04:58 -!- powdahound [n=powdahou@powdahound.com] has joined #go-nuts
04:58 < dsymonds> Jerub: strings are just bytes
04:58 < wcn> kuroneko: a stream cipher is unlikely to yield valid UTF-8.  :)
04:59 <+rsc9> benno: only (unicode) digits and letters are allowed
04:59 <+robpike> benno: that centered dot is an implementation detail and is
going away.  you never see it in go programs.
04:59 < kuroneko> wcn: do you think that matters?
04:59 < kuroneko> :)
04:59 -!- rsc9 [n=rsc@nat/google/x-dogdurrviaksapxw] has left #go-nuts []
04:59 < kuroneko> people tend to find all sorts of fun ways to violate
04:59 < jcowan> String *literals* are UTF-8 as a consequence of the fact
that source files are UTF-8.
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04:59 < NelsonLaQuet> so...  is it normal that 6g refuses to compile if I
have an unreferenced variable
04:59 < NelsonLaQuet> ?*
04:59 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: yes
05:00 < _Hicham_> how can i know the compiler's version ?
05:00 < _Hicham_> there is no -v switch for 8g
05:00 < harryv> robpike: "The problem with Android phones is we have don't
have a [floating point unit]," said Pike.  – I'm curious, how so?
05:00 < Jerub> okay, so if I have a string that contains a unicode character
like '\u1234' that is encoded in more bytes than 1, and I do mystring[0] will that
be \xe1 ? or will it be \u1234 ?
05:00 < antarus> I assume built-in localization is not planned?
05:00 <+iant> _Hicham_: that is true, I guess it may grow one at some point,
I don't know
05:00 <+robpike> harryv: that quote was in regard to the fact that the arm
port can't run the full test suite.  that's all
05:01 <+iant> Jerub: it will be \xe1; a string is a sequence of bytes; a
string literal is encoded into UTF-8; you can use range over a string to get UTF-8
05:01 < Jerub> i'm reading the documentation and I don't see this clearly
05:01 < NelsonLaQuet> That's odd.  The only way that I could figure out how
to consume the first return value was to do this:
05:01 < NelsonLaQuet> bytes, errors := io.ReadFile(file);
05:01 < NelsonLaQuet> then write an empty "if errors != nil" statement to
supres the unreferenced variable error.
05:01 <+iant> antarus: that would be a library issue, we'd love to have help
with the libraries
05:01 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: Use the blank identifier
05:02 <+iant> bytes, _ := io.ReadFile(file)
05:02 <+kaib> harryv: specifically, the android reference platform (and a
large number of the actual deployed arm cores) don't have hardware floating point
05:02 <+iant> Jerub: which part is not well defined?
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05:02 < NelsonLaQuet> is there any way to consume a single return value in
the same line?  Like: functionCall(multiReturnFunction()[0]) ?
05:02 < shardz> Are there any vim syntax files for Go yet?
05:02 <+robpike> Effective Go covers a lot of this material.
05:03 <+robpike> NelsonLaQuet: not smoothly.
05:03 < abbyz> should it not be valid to use [...] as the array size in a
function parameter list?
05:03 < NelsonLaQuet> I read the *very* short section on return values and
it didn't mention any way to do what I want.
05:03 < NelsonLaQuet> shardz: yeah, it's in the repo
05:03 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: interesting idea, but no
05:03 < Jerub> iant: the unicode/utf-8/string definition.  it's clear that
unicode string literals are in the language, but not that the data will be stored
and accessed as utf-8
05:03 <+iant> shardz: misc/vim/go.vim
05:03 <+robpike> arrays are statically sized.  ...  implies dynamic in that
05:03 < shardz> Excellent, thanks.
05:04 < Jerub> iant: I assume that if I have a byte sequence that contains
an invalid utf-8 sequence and I cast it as String, there aren't any possible
05:04 <+iant> a []byte will convert to exactly that sequence of bytes in a
05:04 < _Hicham_> for linux people, put ur environment variables in
05:04 <+iant> they don't have to be valid UTF-8 in that case
05:04 < Jerub> okay, good.
05:04 <+iant> a []int sequence will convert to that sequence of characters,
encoded in UTF-8
05:04 < wcn> Jerub: it returns aninvalid token, but will let you iterate and
recover the rest of the data.
05:04 <+iant> I mean, string([]int)
05:05 < Jerub> wcn: not utf-8 doesn't mean invalid.
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05:05 < NelsonLaQuet> iant: that's too bad.  I needless hate verbosity when
it's as, or more, clear to do things inline.
05:05 < Jerub> wcn: you mean when I use range, right?
05:05 < NelsonLaQuet> I hate needless*
05:05 < ggbgg> robpike: rewritten rio in go?
05:05 < wcn> Jerub: yes.  Sorry, misread your use case.
05:06 < plux> cnbash
05:06 < plux> oops
05:06 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: yeah, you do need to use a name for that case
05:06 < Jerub> this is an oddity.  I guess it makes sense for most programs,
but it will make some software annoying to write ;)
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05:07 <+robpike> graphics packages not much yet but i have ideas
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05:08 < antarus> I have two other questions, will go support static binaries
and / or universal binaries?
05:08 -!- bnijk_ [n=ush@unaffiliated/octopuswitharms] has joined #go-nuts
05:08 <+iant> antarus: 8g/6g only do static binaries
05:08 < dsymonds> antarus: go's binaries are already static
05:08 < Jerub> tempting to spend time i should be spending on OSDC
implementing other text codecs.
05:08 <+iant> antarus: no current plans for universal binaries, maybe
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05:09 < antarus> dsymonds: ahh I haven't built any yet; I guess I should
05:10 < bnijk_> why are strings immutable
05:10 -!- bthomson [n=bthomson@pool-71-114-74-245.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net] has
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05:10 < bnijk_> is that the right word
05:10 * antarus is guessing immutable strings yield better performance
05:11 < vsmatck> I may be wrong.  But I think universal binaries are outside
the scope of the programming language.
05:11 < bnijk_> there's no way that's true
05:11 < sanxiyn> Strings shall be immutable
05:11 <+iant> bnijk_: if you want a mutable string, use []byte
05:11 < ajray> in the future?
05:11 <+iant> it amounts to the same thing
05:11 < _Hicham_> so go doesn't support dynamic linking ?
05:11 < mjard> _Hicham_: the compiler doesn't
05:11 < kuroneko> non-immutable strings result in either a LOT of string
copying, or headaches when you suddenly realise you're using the same string
instance everywhere
05:11 < mjard> well, linker
05:12 < Eridius> kuroneko: well, you can do copy-on-write semantics, but
that involves its own pain
05:12 < bnijk_> well
05:12 < Aria> Or you use chortds
05:12 < Aria> er...  chords
05:12 < bnijk_> they don't result in more string copying
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05:12 <+iant> Eridius: copy-on-write is a bad idea in a multi-threaded
05:12 < bnijk_> er wait
05:12 < Eridius> ah true
05:12 < bnijk_> yeah, non-immutable strings don't result in more copying
05:12 <+robpike> iant has it.  values for primitives make concurrency much
easier to get right
05:12 < antarus> vsmatck: right, but these kind fokls have written a
toolchain for the language too; my question was aimed at that really
05:12 < bnijk_> there are less cases you have to copy them in...
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05:12 < uriel> _Hicham_: no dynamic linking is a huge feature as far as I'm
concerned, dynamic linking is evil, evil , evil and more evil
05:13 < Jerub> ...  but evil can be so fun!
05:13 < bnijk_> or do you mean, explicit string copying on the part of the
05:13 < dw> hi there.  is there a specific part of the language spec that
mentions introspection features?  i can't find anything in the docs at all
05:13 < uriel> Jerub: it can be, but dynamic linking is no fun at all, it is
pain and missery all the way
05:13 <+iant> dw: see the docs for the reflect package
05:13 < Jerub> before go gets too big, are there any concrete plans for
package management or a software index?
05:13 < kuroneko> bnijk_: if strings are mutable, you need a distinct copy
reference vs copy contents.  immutable strings are always copy reference, but
modifications must yield a new string.
05:14 <+iant> Jerub: no concrete plans
05:14 < dw> iant, is that a magic package, or is it implemented in terms of
soem language feature?  :)
05:14 < NelsonLaQuet> iant: are you a developer on go?
05:14 <+iant> dw: it is implemented in terms of a language feature
05:14 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: yes
05:14 < NelsonLaQuet> cool
05:14 < bnijk_> i understand kuroneko
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05:14 <+iant> dw: or, rather, a library feature
05:14 < vsmatck> antarus: I think this would need linux kernel support also.
There is a project to add universal binaries to linux, http://icculus.org/fatelf/.
The author was pretty much rejected by the linux people.
05:14 <+iant> dw: see the unsafe package for the features in question
05:14 < kuroneko> read: are you assigning or passing the string because you
want it's value or it's storage.  :)
05:14 < bnijk_> do you mean it's easier for the programmer
05:14 < dw> iant, thanks
05:14 < bnijk_> to have redundancy more than is necessary
05:15 <+robpike> reflect has a tiny API in runtime but the reflect package
itself is written in Go
05:15 < bnijk_> hey look, it's rob pike
05:15 <+robpike> hey look, it's ian taylor
05:15 < bnijk_> guess again
05:15 <+iant> he means me....
05:15 < kuroneko> but yeah, I'm guessing.  :) and I've beat my head against
the whole idea of having mutable strings and realised that it's not a fun idea
when you're using references
05:15 < bnijk_> well i've heard of rob pike, not ian taylor...no offense
05:15 -!- jdp [n=justin@ool-435238c0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts
05:16 <+iant> none taken
05:16 <+robpike> ian did the gccgo front end for gcc
05:16 < kuroneko> ah
05:16 < bnijk_> that would do it then
05:16 < dsymonds> I've never heard of bnijk_
05:16 <+robpike> it was great having a second implementation around.  lots
of issues get resolved and clarified that way
05:16 < kuroneko> so when I'm curious as to why gccgo is catching on fire,
it's iant's fault?  ;)
05:16 <+iant> kuroneko: indeed
05:16 < bnijk_> well i change nicks a lot, dsymonds
05:17 < sstangl> is there a standard package for data structures?
05:17 < ajray> is 'package main' going to change (i think it was mentioned
in the talk)?
05:17 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #go-nuts
05:17 <+iant> sstangl: there is container, if that is what you mean....
05:17 < Jerub> The last time I changed my nick, modulo an abbreviation, was
05:17 < dsymonds> sstangl: It's called a 'struct'
05:17 < NelsonLaQuet> the http documentation has a typo - the Request type's
fields are Url and RawUrl, not URL and RawURL.
05:17 < sstangl> dsymonds: No, I mean like an implementation of a red-black
05:17 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: they just changed to URL, I think
05:17 < sstangl> dsymonds: with the supporting logic.
05:17 <+robpike> package main is deeply wired into the implementation now
but we're planning some changes that may eliminate its specialness
05:17 < tessier> DJCapelis: What's a guy like you doing in a place like
05:17 < dsymonds> sstangl: look in the container/ directory; there's vector,
list and ring so far
05:17 < kuroneko> iant: any recommended places to start for hacking on
05:17 <+robpike> it'll still be the default package to start execution, of
05:17 < mjard> hmm
05:18 < NelsonLaQuet> odd, I was under the impression I got the latest
version...  sorry
05:18 <+iant> kuroneko: pick something you want to write
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05:18 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: no, you may be right, I'm not sure; it did just
change recently but I'm not sure what the state is exactly
05:18 -!- jiing_ [n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts
05:18 < DJCapelis> tessier: A good question.
05:18 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 175 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 4 voices, 171
05:18 <+iant> sstangl: there is no red-black tree package yet
05:18 <+robpike> NelsonLaQuet: i believe if you pull that's all consistent.
if you still see inconsistencies please mail me (r@golang.org)
05:18 < kuroneko> iant: yeah, that's kinda why I'm switching to gccgo - need
ABI compatibility so I can pluck wrap curses >_>
05:18 < kuroneko> err, s/pluck//
05:19 < sstangl> iant: excellent, because I'm in the mood :)
05:19 < DJCapelis> tessier: Considering, I suppose.  I have classified Go as
a "thing" at this point and am interested to see if it achieves an even loftier
designation in the future.
05:19 <+iant> cool
05:19 < bnijk_> hey rob let me ask you a question
05:19 < mrd`> Wow, {.meta-left} and {.meta-right} are kinda verbose.
05:19 <+robpike> mrd: those names in the template package were externally
imposed.  i agree they're pretty bad
05:19 < dsymonds> sstangl: If you're interested in writing a red-black tree
implementation, make sure to read the 'Contribute code' doc on golang.org/ before
05:19 < tessier> DJCapelis: Funny how out of all of the 175 nicks I saw when
I joined I took just a quick glance and the one I know jumped out at me.
05:19 <+robpike> but the package itself is wonderfully powerful
05:19 < kuroneko> iant: although I won't guaranty that I won't try to make
it work on strange platforms ;)
05:20 < bnijk_> robpike: do you think the linux kernel should have directory
handling like in plan 9
05:20 <+iant> that would be great, actually
05:20 < DJCapelis> tessier: humans are good at pattern recognition.  :)
05:20 < sstangl> dsymonds: I already did.
05:20 <+robpike> bnijk_: let's stay on topic
05:20 < kuroneko> mostly because I know sparc abi and behaviour better than
I know x86 >_>
05:20 < Jerub> I'm sorely tempted to implement a bunch of things, kick start
the batteries included side.  MIME parser/emitter, jsonrpc server/client, database
05:20 < dsymonds> sstangl: cool.  Start with a design and email it to the
dev list.
05:20 < bnijk_> w/e
05:21 * sanxiyn was about to say something about --no-add-needed but indeed stay
on topic...  :(
05:22 -!- shatly [n=hartsra@tarsonis.dhcp.rose-hulman.edu] has joined #go-nuts
05:22 < shatly> hi
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05:24 <+robpike> see you tomorrow....
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05:26 < dw> is this channel logged someplace yet?  seems like a great faq
05:27 < sanxiyn> Oh god, please no public logging
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05:27 < dw> sanxiyn: heaven forbid someone join a publicly advertised
channel and..  record proceedings!  (enqueue scary musci)
05:27 < Kniht> irc logs don't make good references anyway, but if you want
to edit it down into an faq I don't think anyone would mind :P
05:28 < dw> they're great when combined with full text search
05:28 < Kniht> I disagree
05:28 < bnijk_> i already like this language
05:28 < bnijk_> very elegant...
05:28 < dw> perhaps you've never discovered a solution to a problem through
a search result linking to irclog before then
05:28 < antarus> No need to argue about logs
05:28 -!- itsaboutcode [n=itsabout@] has joined #go-nuts
05:28 < antarus> Its not like anyone here can prevent you logging and
posting it somewhere ;)
05:29 < bthomson> yeah i missed the earlier, log would be nice
05:29 < QwertyM> I'm having a build issue here (while running ./all.bash),
the tail of which is: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/149929/ | is there a workaround?
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05:32 < msw> I'm running into a compile error
05:32 < msw> http://pastebin.ca/1665967
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05:32 < dw> msw, did you fetch the release tag, or HEAD?
05:32 -!- anticw [n=anticw@c-76-126-87-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
05:32 < msw> dw: release
05:33 < justinvh> Could somebody point me in the right direction of what I
would want to do if I wanted to convert a double to an int?
05:33 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 180 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 177
05:33 <+iant> justinvh: int(double-value)
05:33 < wcn> var foo double; int(foo)
05:33 -!- jamesr [n=jamesr@c-76-102-52-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
05:33 < justinvh> Ah, simple enough.
05:33 <+iant> msw: what is building at the point of failure?
05:33 < msw> dw: at cs id 64e703cb307d
05:34 -!- NOTtheMessiah [n=NOTtheMe@n2-48-44.dhcp.drexel.edu] has quit [Client
05:34 < msw> dw: let me paste more contexzt
05:34 -!- d03boy [n=d03boy@CPE-24-167-203-224.wi.res.rr.com] has left #go-nuts []
05:34 < dw> msw, talk to iant, not me :)
05:34 < msw> iant: let me post more context.  ;-)
05:34 < justinvh> functional casts.  I didn't expect that, but okay :)
05:34 < msw> iant: http://pastebin.ca/1665972
05:35 < msw> iant: it's during run.bash
05:35 -!- dj_ryan [n=ryan@c-67-160-202-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
05:35 < dj_ryan> this channel is so appropriately named
05:35 < bnijk_> that's what i was trying to tell them
05:35 < bnijk_> but they wouldn't listen...
05:35 -!- Sgeo [n=Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110
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05:35 < dj_ryan> so, lets talk about GC
05:36 <+iant> msw: that is strange, I don't know what is causing that; what
system are you running on?
05:36 -!- robink [n=robink@fatcat.creosotehill.org] has left #go-nuts []
05:36 < dj_ryan> having struggled ot get a high performing database system
in Java, I have some specific thoughts
05:36 < _Hicham_> so go developers think that static linking is the solution
05:36 < msw> iant: oh, cool - you're working on go -- AWESOME
05:36 <+iant> msw: it may be that the gotest script is doing something wrong
somehow--it runs 8nm output through sed
05:36 <+iant> msw: thanks
05:37 < msw> iant: gcc 4.1.2, glibc 2.5 ...  (it's Foresight Linux, 32-bit)
05:37 < uriel> ok, I have come up with an idea for my first Go project, if
anyone is interested in joining in, let me know: http://repo.cat-v.org/goblin/
05:37 < Eridius> gosh!
05:37 < msw> iant: I had to patch gotest to make it test the tar module
05:37 <+iant> _Hicham_: static linking seems right for many uses, yes; gccgo
does do dynamic linking since it links with glibc
05:37 < uriel> good night!  and great job to all the google people!
05:37 < harryv> uriel: full of surprises you are :P
05:37 < NelsonLaQuet> iant: I may of made a mistake myself actually, it
turns out I did grab the release build of the project so the docs may be right...
but then again, if that's the case it's confusing to build the docs against the
head revision while most people will be grabbing the release one ;)
05:37 <+iant> dj_ryan: keep going, though e-mail may be more useful for
details at the moment
05:37 < msw> iant: http://pastebin.ca/1665975
05:38 < dj_ryan> iant: At this point in Java, I have decided, if it worked,
that the G1 garbage collector is the ideal
05:38 <+iant> uriel: looks nice
05:38 < dj_ryan> you get both compaction (not available in CMS), low pause
(not available in CMS, parallel), and high efficiency
05:38 < dj_ryan> you want something that is compacting, efficient and low
05:38 < justinvh> Is there a trival way to get slice-assignment-operator
like logic?
05:39 < dj_ryan> otherwise you cannot write data-intensive database type
systems programming without suffering somewhat
05:39 <+iant> msw: ah, you have a sed which doesn't match centered-dot--that
seems quite likely
05:39 < dj_ryan> Erlang avoids this by having thousands of tiny heaps, each
process is GCed independetly
05:39 < uriel> harryv, iant: thanks, lets see how much code I can get
written once I wake up :) (just moved to a new flat, so Go is going to compete
with actually unpacking my stuff...)
05:39 < msw> the centered dot bit is...strange
05:39 <+iant> justinvh: example?
05:39 -!- dsymonds [n=dsymonds@] has quit []
05:39 < dj_ryan> but I think that limits what kinds of things you can build
in Erlang
05:39 < Jerub> isn't erlang's an incremental single sweep GC?
05:40 < andguent> why golang when there's already limbo?
05:40 < msw> iant: I run grep with LANG=C
05:40 < ajray> has anyone added bash_completion stuff for the go compilers?
so (for example) 8l tab-complete *.8 files?
05:40 < msw> iant: that might be a problem
05:40 -!- auntieNeo [n=rewt@97-121-46-26.bois.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
05:40 <+iant> dj_ryan: Go does have pointers so compaction might be somewhat
05:40 < justinvh> iant: memset equivalent
05:40 < Capso> andguent: Limbo is not for modern UNIX; Limbo also requires
05:40 < dj_ryan> iant: and java has pointers too
05:40 <+iant> msw: yes, maybe
05:40 < dj_ryan> except they call them 'references'
05:41 <+iant> justinvh: sorry, no syntax for that, have to write a loop or
call a function
05:41 < ajray> dj_ryan: i love watching the CS professors here try to
explain why references are not pointers and how java doesnt have pointers ('unlike
that ugly c')
05:41 <+iant> dj_ryan: Java can stop the world
05:41 < dj_ryan> right
05:41 -!- JordanG [n=jordan@207-180-140-97.c3-0.wth-ubr1.sbo-wth.ma.cable.rcn.com]
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05:41 <+iant> it's harder in Go
05:41 < dj_ryan> and in return they dont need free lists, or can avoid
memory fragmentation
05:41 <+iant> we're planning on using the work from the Recycler project
05:41 <+iant> I mean, the approach, not the code
05:41 < NelsonLaQuet> dj_ryan: Java references are not pointers
05:42 < dj_ryan> what is the meaningful difference?
05:42 < kuroneko> dj_ryan: references track relocations
05:42 -!- ivan` [n=ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #go-nuts
05:42 < dw> arithmetic is not defined for references to begin with
05:42 < dj_ryan> and go's pointers dont define arithmetic
05:42 < mrd`> Jerub: I think so; it's also process specific because each
process gets its own dedicated heap.
05:42 < NelsonLaQuet> I come from a C++ background - references are typesafe
and don't allow pointer arithmetic.
05:42 < dj_ryan> so are go's pointers pointers or references?
05:42 -!- interskh [n=interskh@c-67-163-156-103.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined
05:42 < antarus> I assume if you don't define what you mean by pointer this
conversation willn ot end well ;)
05:42 < uriel> iant: I got it right though that because Go has no pointer
arithmetic, it could run without an mmu, like Limbo, right?
05:42 < kuroneko> and you can't diddle a reference.  :)
05:42 -!- aaront [n=aaront@unaffiliated/aaront] has quit ["And that's all he
05:42 <+iant> uriel: I suppose that is true
05:43 < msw> iant: after "unalias grep", I don't need that change to gotest
(I think), but I still can't compile the bufio tests
05:43 < codedread_> so it was said that go links statically - is that by
default?  is there a way to link a go program to libraries built in go?
05:43 < kuroneko> uriel: hey, we had pointer arithmetic before we had MMUs
05:43 < uriel> iant: because that is one of the coolest things about
Inferno, to be able to run reliably and fast on things like the Nintendo DS
05:43 <+iant> codedread_: 6g/8g link statically
05:43 < kuroneko> :P
05:43 < dj_ryan> once you remove arithmetic you cant create arbitrary
pointers, now you have 'references' in the style of java.  Aka pointers that have
more working behind the scenes (ie: for compacting GCs)
05:43 <+iant> msw: same error?
05:43 < msw> iant: yea
05:43 < uriel> kuroneko: yes, but I mean safely running multiple programs
concurrently, etc
05:43 <+iant> hmmm, not sure, take a look at gotest step by step to see what
is happening
05:43 < sanxiyn> Someone should write a Go interpreter.
05:43 < sanxiyn> :)
05:43 < antarus> is that sed not portable?
05:43 <+iant> msw: also, please file an issue if you can
05:44 <+iant> sanxiyn: see src/pkg/exp/eval
05:44 < msw> iant: ok
05:44 < sanxiyn> iant: Oh.
05:44 * antarus sighs and installs mercurial
05:44 < dw> sanxiyn: i have been considering a recdecent parser in
javascript, since the language is so straightforward
05:44 < kuroneko> uriel: define 'safely'
05:44 < NelsonLaQuet> will the http library work well under apache with CGI?
05:44 < kuroneko> it's been done successfully without memory protection
05:44 < kuroneko> look at classic macOS + AmigaOS
05:45 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: the http library is more aimed at a standalone
server, running under CGI is simpler but I don't know that there is any direct
support for it
05:45 < NelsonLaQuet> nevermind, that's a stupid question...  I guess my
question is that are there any nice wrappers for using go as a CGI module under
05:45 < kuroneko> and it's been done with half-an-MMU (80286 protected mode
lacked the virtual addressing modes, but did have page protection)
05:45 <+iant> NelsonLaQuet: I think not yet
05:45 < sstangl> NelsonLaQuet: not yet.
05:45 < uriel> kuroneko: safely as in *securely* and without allowing
programs to crash eachother
05:45 < codedread_> iant: ok, that was how i built my helloworld app, but
would it be possible to link dynamically to libraries built using go?
05:45 < mrd`> _Hicham_: I suspect the Go compiler just uses static linking
because it's simpler, and it's based on the Plan 9 toolchain, which I don't
believe supports dynamic linking.
05:45 < sstangl> mrd`: Plan 9 doesn't, yeah.
05:45 -!- adamblan [n=adamblan@OOBLECK.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #go-nuts
05:46 < codedread_> thinking about uriel's ambitious project and wondering
how well that will work if every utility is statically linked
05:46 <+iant> codedread_: yes, that should be possible though not really
documented yet
05:46 < ote> shapor@yzf:~/src/go/misc/cgo/stdio$ ./hello
05:46 < ote> Floating point exception
05:46 < sanxiyn> codedread_: Well it could work like busybox.
05:46 < kuroneko> codedread_: having your world statically linked is only a
problem if your system library is glibc.
05:46 <+iant> ote: hmmm, often means a division by zero somewhere
05:46 < kuroneko> ;)
05:46 < antarus> ote: yeya sapor ;)
05:46 < antarus> er heya*
05:46 < antarus> god I can't spell
05:46 < antarus> I should go home
05:46 < kuroneko> libc can actually be quite small
05:46 < codedread_> codedread_: good point
05:46 < codedread_> kuroneko - i don't follow you
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05:46 < codedread_> sanxiyn: good point
05:47 < kuroneko> although, it does introduce the problem that ultimately
killed ultrix
05:47 < dw> kuroneko: any libc - locale and threading support can be small..
05:47 < ote> antarus: hi :)
05:47 < antarus> kuroneko: dangerous when applied to basic items though;
think programs that call themselves recursively...*shudders*
05:48 < kuroneko> antarus: not if you have segmented binaries with a strict
read-only code section
05:48 * antarus hasn't looked at a binary yet
05:48 < DJCapelis> I sure wouldn't want to use a statically linked Qt.
05:48 -!- Skel is now known as JustinHoMi
05:48 < DJCapelis> dynamic linking can come with time if need be.
05:48 < ajray> anyone else want bash completion for the go compilers and
05:48 < antarus> ote: rewrite named in go; I want it done by monday ;p
05:48 <+iant> indeed
05:48 -!- ceh [n=ceh@celsius.it.uu.se] has joined #go-nuts
05:49 < mrd`> ew, bind
05:49 < Jerub> antarus: what subset of its features do you want?  ;)
05:49 * ote wonders why hello world would be dividing by zero
05:49 < mjard> for fun
05:49 < sanxiyn> for lulz
05:50 < mjard> ohshit
05:50 < Capso> they misspelled God, but the basic features and ideas are
05:50 < dj_ryan> here's another question, will go be domantly CSP for
multiprocessing?  I'm not sure that fits all needs (imagine databases)
05:50 < NelsonLaQuet> I wrote a neat little web server thing that serves out
html templates in a folder; using the request path to locate them.  Pretty
neat....  Though am now trying to figure out how I would implement a nice
web-centric MVC framework and OR/M over this.  It's architecture is really
different then other languages...
05:51 < javarants2> there is an http server in the http library
05:51 < javarants2> i think it is the one that is serving their site
05:51 < DJCapelis> databases are not worth designing for I think...  they
always mess things up and the hacks you have to put in to support them seem to be
rarely helpful to anything else.
05:51 < NelsonLaQuet> yeah, I cheated and used that.  But I would prefer to
expose any application over fast CGI so that I can take advantage of apache's
other features and stability.
05:51 < antarus> dj_ryan: It may be that go is not a good language to write
certain kinds of applications in.
05:51 < mrd`> [absolutist argument with zero support]
05:52 < dj_ryan> antarus: uh, then wtf is it for?!
05:52 < no_mind> DJCapelis, but you still need databases..  they are
necessary evil in comp applications
05:52 < dj_ryan> if you cant write a database in a systems programming
language, what kind of systems programming language is it
05:52 < javarants2> i didn't see native support for C libraries, is that in
there somewhere?
05:52 <+iant> dj_ryan: go uses goroutines and channels, yes, it's the ideas
from CSP plus a bit more
05:52 < DJCapelis> no_mind: sure, so write them in another language?  :)
05:52 < antarus> I didn't say it wouldn't be good for databases
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05:52 < NelsonLaQuet> DJCapelis: I'm a web developer...
05:52 < DJCapelis> dj_ryan: There's clearly things that aren't very good to
writh in go.
05:52 < codedread_> i think i would really like to see dynamically linked go
programs (with the 'go' standard libraries available as shared object libraries)
05:52 < dj_ryan> so with CSP you just bottleneck for certain things
05:52 < DJCapelis> NelsonLaQuet: Use databases with go all you want.
05:52 < dj_ryan> eg: ETS tables in erlang are bottlenecks
05:52 < no_mind> DJCapelis, so we should drop go for db related apps ? that
means 90% of web apps
05:52 < mrd`> dj_ryan: Not true.
05:53 < doublec> javarants2, see misc/cgo/gmp/gmp.go
05:53 < DJCapelis> no_mind: db *related* apps?
05:53 <+iant> javarants2: we have FFI for C libraries, not well documented
05:53 < DJCapelis> no, I just said the actual databases themselves.
05:53 < joeyadams> I guess go doesn't have DB packages yet?
05:53 < no_mind> DJCapelis, apps which connect to db (heavily)
05:53 -!- Robdgreat [i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat] has joined #go-nuts
05:53 <+iant> I think Go would be fine for writing a database
05:53 < joeyadams> Would one turn out well?
05:53 < DJCapelis> no_mind: go should be fine for those.
05:53 < dj_ryan> DJCapelis: right, writing data storage systems in go might
be interesting, since your choices are mostly Java and some C++ (sorta)
05:53 < DJCapelis> no_mind: using a database maps nicely into goroutines.
05:53 < joeyadams> Does it have good reflection support for tasks like
05:53 < joeyadams> Convert struct definition into a CREATE TABLE
05:54 < joeyadams> Serialize/unserialize from such tables
05:54 -!- mjhsieh [n=mjhsieh@unaffiliated/mjhsieh] has joined #go-nuts
05:54 < Jerub> There's a C FFI, it shuld be trivial to bind to mysql,
postgres, sqlite, etc.
05:54 < antarus> joeyadams: I suggest you check out the unsafe module
05:54 < NelsonLaQuet> I'm assuming that we can link go with C code, though,
right?  With the gogcc compiler?  In that case you could re-build the C libraries
for mysql and whatever, then build a nice OR/M over that.
05:54 < antarus> joeyadams: (which is where all the reflection is, afaik)
05:54 <+iant> Go is definitely not Erlang
05:54 < javarants2> iant: how would you compare goroutines to libdispatch +
blocks?  i have been looking at that and it solves quite a few of the annoyances
in writing concurrent C code.
05:54 < DJCapelis> NelsonLaQuet: you can, it's unsafe though, generally...
05:55 < NelsonLaQuet> true
05:55 < no_mind> where do I find db packages for go ?
05:55 < joeyadams> Hmm, I wonder manually implementing a "work queue" is
typically necessary in go
05:55 < dj_ryan> there is this strong trend in the open world for large data
scale things to be written in Java (see: hadoop, et al)
05:55 <+iant> javarants2: I don't know libdispatch+, sorry
05:55 < joeyadams> suppose you have 10 CPU-intensive jobs to execute, and a
2-core system.
05:55 -!- niterain [n=niterain@c-76-108-29-82.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined
05:55 <+iant> no_mind: there are no db packages yet, definitely an area
which needs improvement
05:55 < dj_ryan> having coded some of this stuff in Java, and considering
C++, I can't say its a bad choice
05:55 < ajray> if i wanted to contribute the bash completion file to
go/misc, where would i send it?
05:55 < joeyadams> Can the jobs simply be spawned, or does a more clever
mechanism need to be used to keep only 2 jobs running at a time?
05:56 < NelsonLaQuet> no_mind: go is a brand new language...  You can't
expect them to of written any managed db connectors yet :p
05:56 < sanxiyn> ajray: http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html
05:56 < dj_ryan> so my thought is if there is a systems programming
language, surely it should be useful for writing data store systems.  that is the
practical definition of a 'systems application'
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05:56 < joeyadams> It might be a good idea to wrap libdbi.  I dunno.
05:56 < antarus> dj_ryan: I don't think anyone is saying it is not good for
that; iant already stated he thought you could write a database with it ;)
05:56 < sanxiyn> ODBC
05:57 <+iant> joeyadams: there isn't tight control for how many OS threads
will be used
05:57 < dj_ryan> heh
05:57 < antarus> Note as well there there are many different types of
05:57 < dj_ryan> just raising crap
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05:57 < no_mind> awww...  so we need to write db connectors yet :(
05:57 < dj_ryan> i used to liek the CSP, but man, the awesome coolness of
micro-locked concurrent data structures are kick ass
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05:57 <+iant> dj_ryan: yes but very few people can write them correctly
05:58 < joeyadams> hmm, I like how the workqueue problem can be likened to
water slides :D
05:58 < dj_ryan> iant: hence why it becomes a library and other people can
use them...
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05:58 < joeyadams> Such as ones where you climb up 50 feet and wait for the
lifeguard to decide which one you go down
05:58 <+iant> fair enough; you can write those in Go, too, but we encourage
a different approach
05:58 < dj_ryan> right, CSP
05:58 < joeyadams> the lifeguard makes the last person made it out before
you go
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05:59 < joeyadams> Though if a person gets stuck (blocks), the model fails,
as it would be better to start another job in that case.
05:59 -!- jakedahn [n=jakedahn@unaffiliated/jakedahn] has quit []
05:59 < dw> what linker modifications are required in order to support Go?
06:00 <+iant> dw: 6g/8g come with their own linker
06:00 <+iant> dw: the gccgo frontend can use any linker, but to make
segmented stacks work in the best possible way you have to use gold
06:00 <+iant> gold handles the case of a segmented stack function calling a
function compiled without segmented stacks (e.g., libc)
06:00 < dw> aah
06:00 < joeyadams> If you do this:
06:01 < joeyadams> for i:=1; i<100; i++ {
06:01 < javarants2> iant: blocks + libdispatch are in snow leopard — brand
name Grand Central
06:01 < joeyadams> go someJob(i);
06:01 < joeyadams> }
06:01 < NelsonLaQuet> well, cool stuff iant.  Go is pretty cool.  But I'm
out.  Later
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06:01 < sanxiyn> iant: gold does?  (It always did, or from which version?)
06:01 < mjard> mmmm, epoll
06:01 -!- mennis [n=mennis@adsl-065-012-170-146.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit []
06:01 <+iant> sanxiyn: development version, not released
06:01 < sanxiyn> ok
06:01 < joeyadams> Will that result in 100 threads running at the same time,
or will Go's scheduler only focus on ncpu threads at a time?
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06:02 < joeyadams> I'm guessing libdispatch focuses more on the job queue
problem than Go, but I don't know.
06:02 <+iant> javarants2: goroutines are probably similar; Go has full
closures which I think are more flexible than blocks; I don't know enough of the
precise details to give a competely correct answer
06:03 <+iant> joeyadams: typically new OS threads are only created when some
goroutine blocks, so it depends upon what somejob does
06:03 -!- m-takagi [n=m-takagi@linode.m-takagi.jp] has joined #go-nuts
06:03 < antarus> yeah thats what I figured
06:03 < antarus> if SomeJob is a long running process you certainly don't
want only ncpu of them
06:05 < no_mind> you guys are tempting me to play with go
06:05 < javarants2> iant: has anyone done the computer language shootout
with Go yet?
06:05 <+iant> javarants2: see test/bench
06:05 < javarants2> iant: seemed like many of them are in there
06:05 < javarants2> ah ok
06:06 < DJCapelis> Does anyone happen to know if Go interacts well with
signals yet?  (I.E.  can you make a goroutine a signal handler?  Is it called
06:06 <+iant> we haven't uploaded any of those programs or anything, but
there are timings in timings.log
06:06 < kuroneko> actually, has anybody considered targetting llvm?
06:06 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: that's in the FAQ
06:06 < antarus> kuroneko: the docs said llvm was too complicated for the
intial implementation
06:06 <+iant> DJCapelis: you can write a signal handler but I don't think it
is called in a new goroutine
06:06 < antarus> and by complicated I mean slow
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06:06 < kuroneko> heh, so I see
06:07 < javarants2> they mention llvm but say the compiler wasn't fast
06:07 <+iant> My hope is that the gccgo frontend will be usable with LLVM
some day, though right now it is too tied to gcc
06:07 < javarants2> i would hope that there is a port at some point as over
time i think llvm will be better over time than static compilation.
06:07 < kuroneko> well, it looks like I'm in for my crashcourse in gcc
front-end construction this weekend
06:07 < dj_ryan> we need a JVM port!
06:07 <+iant> javarants2: well, you can already use gccgo
06:07 < no_mind> so what kind of applications you guys feel go will fit in ?
06:08 <+iant> no_mind: we think it can be used in lots of places
06:08 < sanxiyn> dj_ryan: lol
06:08 <+iant> kuroneko: look at the gccgo frontend
06:08 < kuroneko> iant: aye - that's how I'm getting said crashcourse :)
06:08 < dj_ryan> sanxiyn: :-) im just kidding (of course?)
06:08 <+iant> ah!
06:09 < dj_ryan> but i am interested in the shared-memory approaches
possible in go.  Things like shared block caches, common memory data structures,
concurrent trees, etc
06:09 -!- delza [n=delza@d66-183-63-49.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts
06:09 < no_mind> iant, I am looking at language selection for building
business rules engine,
06:09 < joeyadams> "iant> joeyadams: typically new OS threads are only
created when some goroutine blocks, so it depends upon what somejob does" => It
sounds like the answer is that Go automatically manages CPU-intensive jobs by not
running too many at once.  Is that correct?
06:09 <+iant> dj_ryan: it's all shared memory so those can all be
implemented if they seem useful
06:09 <+iant> no_mind: not a subject I know much about myself
06:10 < no_mind> iant, ok
06:10 < wcn> no_mind: there are some interesting opportunities.
06:10 <+iant> joeyadams: pretty much
06:10 < joeyadams> e.g.  if you want to factor 100 numbers, and you have 2
cores to work with.  If you spawn 100 goroutines right off the bat, is that a good
way to do it?
06:10 < no_mind> wcn, like ?
06:10 <+iant> though it's a little more complicated than that
06:10 < wcn> you get flexible typing without hierarchies that are brittle.
06:10 < joeyadams> Or can it be likened to starting 100 threads, which is
less efficient than using a workqueue because the locality is poorer.
06:10 <+iant> goroutines are more efficient than threads in practice
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06:10 < dj_ryan> i should look up the syncronization primitives available
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06:11 < delza> Hi, trying to install on OS X and hitting "make: quietgcc:
Command not found" error, but solution on Google Groups wasn't relevant ($GOBIN
already exists and is in path)
06:11 < kuroneko> actually, some of the goroutine stuff sounds a lot like
the GCD stuff
06:11 <+iant> dj_ryan: they're pretty simple: http://golang.org/pkg/sync/
06:11 < kuroneko> superficially
06:11 < kuroneko> I'm sure there's actual significant differences
06:11 < antarus> delza: is quietgcc in $GOBIN, is it executable?
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06:11 < antarus> delza: is it the correct architecture (use file?)
06:11 <+iant> delza: does "which quietgcc" give you $GOBIN/quietgcc?
06:12 <+iant> antarus: actually, quietgcc is a shell script
06:12 < delza> yes quietgcc is in $GOBIN, yes it is executable
06:12 < DJCapelis> iant: Aww, I have to admit I have a fondness for
06:12 < javarants2> delza: i had to unset GOBIN and that worked for me
06:12 <+iant> DJCapelis: you can use a channel as a semaphore
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06:12 < DJCapelis> should be easy enough to create
06:12 < mrd`> dj_ryan: Are you from Canada and/or Seattle?
06:12 < DJCapelis> iant: oh, yes, right.
06:13 <+iant> delza: not sure why make can't find it, then
06:13 < delza> hmm, "which quietgcc" doesn't come back
06:13 < antarus> delza: what happens if you run quietgcc by itself?
06:13 < javarants2> delza: i put $GOBIN in my path and then unset it
06:13 < delza> Running quietgcc by itself says "no input files"
06:13 < javarants2> delza: that is the appropriate response for it
06:13 < kuroneko> iant: also, is there any reason why gccgo can't just lift
the stack-creating method used by the system thread library when possible, rather
than trying to do anything 'special'?
06:13 <+rsc9> delza: hg pull -u and then try ./all.bash again
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06:14 * kuroneko hasn't looked at the specifics of the 5g goroutine stack handling
06:14 -!- ypcs [i=ville@2001:1bc8:1004:0:0:2:0:a0] has joined #go-nuts
06:14 < delza> OK, pulling hg
06:14 <+iant> kuroneko: the system thread library creates stacks that are
too large--you can't run 100,000 threads on a 32-bit system, but you can run
100,000 goroutines using 8g
06:14 < dj_ryan> mrd`: maybeee
06:15 < kuroneko> iant: ah, so the issue is just it needs downscaling?
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06:15 <+iant> no, it needs growable stacks, and that requires compiler and
linker support
06:15 < antarus> (downscaling helps, but only so far)
06:15 <+iant> stacks need to grow and shrink as needed
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06:16 < antarus> hrm thats an interesting idea
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06:16 < kuroneko> so what you need is a position independant stack
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06:16 < dwelz> has anyone gotten go installed on os x 10.6?
06:16 < kuroneko> so you can move the page if you need to free up space
below it, etc
06:16 < dwelz> i'm having some issues
06:16 < sstangl> how is that implemented?  how do you prevent a stack from
overflowing and the kernel from killing your thread?
06:16 < sstangl> (assuming you have an unmapped page beneath, which may not
be the case)
06:17 <+iant> dwelz: if the issues are with net_test or http_test, it's your
firewall; you can ignore the test failures
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06:17 <+iant> kuroneko: a position independent stack sounds hard; what we
use is a discontiguous stack
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06:17 < kuroneko> yes, my head was hurting from trying to work out how a
position independant stack would work.  >_<
06:17 <+iant> sstangl: you check at the start of each function whether you
have enough space on the current stack, and allocate a new one if necessar
06:18 < Quadrescence> iant: Was Go made because some people at Google got
pissed that C is is a pain in the ass?  (No, your views or opinions are not
representative of Google or the Go team.)
06:18 -!- geee [n=gord@icryed.org] has quit ["leaving"]
06:18 < justinvh> "Pain" is very relative.
06:18 <+iant> Quadrescence: see the language design FAQ
06:18 < Quadrescence> justinvh: Everyone knows pain when they see it.
06:18 < kuroneko> iant: right, so if the stack is going to overflow, you
allocate a new lump, of stack and update SPs appropriately?
06:18 <+kaib> kuroneko: discontiguous stacks also have the benefit that they
can be implemented on hardware that does not have a MMU
06:18 < justinvh> Quadrescence: Yeah, it's the tolerance that counts.
06:19 < dj_ryan> if C is painful, what is C++?
06:19 < kuroneko> and then unroll the discontiguous section on return?
06:19 <+iant> kuroneko: pretty much
06:19 < kuroneko> k
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06:19 < esser> i think go is closer to a compromise between C and highly
parallel langauges like erlang
06:19 < Quadrescence> dj_ryan: It numbs you up so you don't feel the pain
but your arm ends up getting chopped off
06:19 < kuroneko> that is going to be a headache on sparc >_<
06:19 <+iant> kuroneko: you can see my patches on the split-stack branch of
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06:19 <+kaib> kuroneko: how so?
06:19 < dj_ryan> Quadrescence: that is what i call a substandard outcome!
06:19 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: sparc I think will cope.
06:20 < delza> Ah, I had it in my path as "~/bin" and it needed to be
06:20 < delza> Thanks for the help!
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06:20 < kuroneko> kaib: v8 requires fairly large amount of aligned space
reserved on windowing boundaries (which is usually when you grow/shrink the stack
06:21 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: nothing explicitly really makes you use the
standardized ABI on sparc.
06:21 < kuroneko> DJCapelis: windowing does actually.
06:21 < kuroneko> well, rwins
06:21 < DJCapelis> you don't *have* to window.
06:21 <+kaib> kuroneko: what is a windowing boundary?
06:21 < kuroneko> no, but you do need to have the space there for them
06:21 < Quadrescence> iant: I wish you didn't have to avoid the question.
06:22 < kuroneko> because if anything else windows (such as the OS), you're
liable to get a spill
06:22 < antarus> man I haven't done sparc asm in years ;)
06:22 < Capso> Quadrescence, I wish you weren't here.
06:22 < Quadrescence> Capso: >_<
06:22 <+iant> Quadrescence: sorry, I don't really mean to avoid the
question, I wasn't there at the start, and the FAQ is right as far as I know
06:22 < kuroneko> also, potential issue for ia64, although I seem to recall
ia64 is less dumb in that regard.
06:22 < justinvh> dj_ryan: The term C/C++ or comparison for that case is
non-existent.  It is only used in terms like "compatibility" and "community".
06:22 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: you would just go back to a C-like stack to
make calls outside of your own internal ABI
06:22 < Quadrescence> iant: Okay, thank you.
06:23 < kuroneko> DJCapelis: doesn't protect you from context switch
06:23 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: you still don't need to reserve the full space
you can just reserve space for the working set only if you don't window.
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06:23 < DJCapelis> Also doesn't the OS restore register sets separately?
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06:24 < kuroneko> restoration is easy, it's when you're forced to spill out
06:24 < DJCapelis> *you* aren't spilling
06:24 < DJCapelis> someone else spills on their stack.
06:24 < DJCapelis> if you context-switch then you don't spill, someone else
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06:24 < JLB> can go run on windows?  or must run within cygwin?
06:24 < kuroneko> eventually you will spill
06:25 <+rsc9> JLB: neither, for now.
06:25 < jdp> hey all
06:25 <+agl> JLB: It doesn't run on Windows nor Cygwin
06:25 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: Why?
06:25 < jdp> does go have closures?
06:25 <+rsc9> jdp: you bet!
06:25 < jdp> awesome
06:25 < no_mind> oj need some handholding/guidance initially...  how do I
start writing connector to mysql or postgres in go ?
06:25 < kuroneko> because you don't have control over spill timing in v8
06:25 < jdp> anywhere in the docs i can check it out?
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06:25 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: you shouldn't spill at all.
06:25 < scriptdevil> Are functions first class members?
06:25 < kuroneko> if you never roll the window, you won't.
06:25 <+agl> no_mind: you should look at misc/cgo/gmp/gmp.go
06:25 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: exactly.
06:26 <+agl> scriptdevil: yes
06:26 < no_mind> agl, what is gmp ?
06:26 <+iant> jdp: there is some stuff in the course slides on closures
06:26 < JLB> thanks.  so how it compare with erlang?  erlang has its own vm
06:26 <+iant> scriptdevil: yes, in the sense of function pointers
06:26 < kuroneko> but if you don't roll the window, you're also not supposed
to use more than 8 registers >_>
06:26 < kuroneko> one of which is your SP.
06:26 < dwelz> ok, i'm having bigger issues than I thought with
installation.  getting a trace/bpt trap error on OS X snow leopard
06:26 < antarus> no_mind: gmp is some crazy math library last time I
checked; but I imagine agl wants to you look at how they linked to C libraries
06:26 -!- woremacx [n=woremacx@unaffiliated/woremacx] has joined #go-nuts
06:26 -!- Loafers [n=loafers@ip68-225-14-205.pv.oc.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts
06:26 < kuroneko> because somebody else might own the i+l set.
06:27 <+iant> JLB: erlang is a fairly different language, more aimed at
working with distributed computers; Go is multicore on a single system; Go
compiles to machine code, doesn't use a VM
06:27 < dwelz> dyld: Library not loaded: /opt/local/lib/libintl.8.dylib
06:27 <+agl> no_mind: gmp is a bigint library, written in C
06:27 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: no, not if you abandon the calling conventions.
06:27 < kuroneko> the point is not to
06:27 < no_mind> ah ok
06:27 < DJCapelis> you should be able to use a good portion of %i, another
good portion of %l and some of %g.
06:27 < Quadrescence> agl: it's more than a bigint lib.
06:27 < kuroneko> if you abandon the calling conventions, you MUST stub to
call other code
06:27 < kuroneko> and you must stub to be called
06:27 <+iant> dwelz: I don't think we've seen that one, but I know people
have gotten it working on OS X
06:27 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: yes.
06:27 < Loafers> Go > C & C++?
06:27 < Quadrescence> I should donate my bignum code to Go, then maybe
Google will hire me.
06:28 < jdp> iant: thanks
06:28 < DJCapelis> kuroneko: Eventually you may want to make Go fit in with
the standard ABI, but in the meantime it's possible to do a quick and dirty port
with basically trampolines that works.
06:28 <+iant> Quadrescence: Go does already have bignums, and Google is
looking for people
06:28 < Quadrescence> iant: I thought it only had large integer arithmetic
06:28 < JLB> iant, thanks
06:28 < Loafers> Is Go a board game?
06:28 < DJCapelis> and since you have weird stack behavior you can have all
the stubs share a stack I think...
06:28 < Capso> Loafers, yes
06:29 <+iant> Quadrescence: there is a bignum package, it's not in the
06:29 < Loafers> Who wants to play Go?
06:29 < sanxiyn> Loafers: I play Go.
06:29 < DJCapelis> Has anyone written Go in Go yet?  I imagine it has to
have been done already and I just missed it in the docs?
06:29 < plux> the game?
06:29 < Quadrescence> iant: I see.  I guess "bigint" and "bignum" are
usually thrown around synonymously; what I wrote computes elementary and
transcendental functions to arbitrary precision
06:29 < sanxiyn> DJCapelis: You mean computer Go AI player?
06:29 < Loafers> Why did Google choose the name Go?
06:30 < sanxiyn> That would be an interesting exercise indeed.
06:30 < kuroneko> kaib: when I'm talking about windowing boundaries (for
lack of a better term), I'm talking about the point in which you shift the
register window on processors that support that idea
06:30 < Loafers> Seems like too many complications...
06:30 < DJCapelis> sanxiyn: or even just something that displays a go board
and allows for two players to play
06:30 -!- no_mind [n=orion@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer)]
06:30 < kuroneko> ia64, sparc v8 + v9 all do it
06:30 <+iant> DJCapelis: there is not a full Go compiler in Go yet, there is
a Go parser and an experimental interpreter
06:30 < Jerub> Loafers: because goog sounded weird.
06:30 < sanxiyn> Loafers: First two letters of Google, I heard.
06:30 < Jerub> ;)
06:30 < DJCapelis> sanxiyn: but AI is always fun if need be.
06:30 < antarus> Loafers: covered in the FAQ
06:30 -!- vegai [n=vegai@archlinux/developer/vegai] has joined #go-nuts
06:30 <+robpike> google didn't choose the name go, we did
06:30 < DJCapelis> iant: no no, I'm sorry I meant the game.
06:30 -!- uman [n=brennan@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #go-nuts
06:30 <+iant> Quadrescence: ah, sounds cool
06:31 <+kaib> kuroneko: thanks, it was a foreign concept to me.  haven't
done any architecture with such a concept before.
06:31 -!- crawshaw [n=david@CPE-121-210-88-66.gxeb1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined
06:31 < Loafers> Well at least Go the game is receiving the attention it
deserves now
06:31 < kuroneko> kaib: the idea being that you can save time on register
06:31 <+iant> DJCapelis: whoops, sorry, yes I think that would be cool
06:31 < plux> gonna be hard to find relevant searches for Go
06:31 < DJCapelis> kaib: sparc is somewhat strange.  :)
06:31 < antarus> kaib: yea sparc is weird ;)
06:31 < Loafers> plux, my point exactly
06:31 < sanxiyn> Quadrescence: You got multiprecision library.
06:31 < antarus> best assembly language I've use though ;)
06:31 <+robpike> "go programming language" searches work pretty well
06:31 -!- epalm [n=eric@user248-110.vpn.utoronto.ca] has joined #go-nuts
06:31 < DJCapelis> antarus: it is beautiful, just annoying for compiler
writers :)
06:31 < Loafers> robpike, i'm to lazy to type that long
06:31 < Quadrescence> sanxiyn: multiple precision, arbitrary precision,
bignum, same thing
06:31 < sanxiyn> Quadrescence: Binary splitting?  :)
06:31 <+iant> it's pretty hard to search for C, too
06:31 -!- quellhorst [n=quellhor@static-70-104-26-16.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has
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06:31 < DJCapelis> antarus: the layout into bits is very clean too.
06:31 <+robpike> code search will soon have a go language search built in
06:32 < quellhorst> holy crap there are a lot of people here
06:32 <+robpike> can we get to 200?
06:32 * antarus pokes at this logging pkg
06:32 < kuroneko> what's neat about sparc abi though is that the abi already
supports multiple arguments and returns in its calling convention
06:32 < epalm> i'm nearly at the end of http://golang.org/doc/install.html ,
when i run ./all.bash i get "make: quietgcc: Command not found"
06:32 < antarus> robpike: let me just turn on a few more irc clients...
06:32 < quellhorst> can we get it over 10 that know go?
06:32 < Quadrescence> sanxiyn: For hypergeometric expansions, sure
06:32 < mjard> I'm sure you'll hit 200
06:32 < antarus> epalm: make sure quietgcc is in your PATH
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06:32 <+robpike> epalm: make sure $GOBIN is in your path, or $HOME/bin if
you didn't set GOBIN
06:32 < scriptdevil> How long has go been in development?  It already feels
mature.  :D
06:32 <+agl> epalm: make sure that $GOBIN exists, is writable and is in your
06:32 < plux> $GOBLIN ;D
06:32 < antarus> epalm: make sure you use $HOME instead of ~ when you set
06:32 < abbyz> aha, dynamic scoping.
06:32 <+iant> scriptdevil: started whiteboard design 2 years ago
06:33 <+robpike> about two years since we started drawing on the board.  see
the language design faq at the site
06:33 < quellhorst> is there a webserver written in go yet?
06:33 < DJCapelis> robpike: I'd say you're likely to hit it soon, I think
you guys hit critical mass somepoint today, I noticed the web sort of exploding
about Go.
06:33 -!- mikeperrow [n=mikeperr@] has quit []
06:33 <+robpike> golang.org is a web server written in go
06:33 <+iant> quellhorst: golang.org is running a server written in Go
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06:33 < quellhorst> iant: source?  git?
06:33 < scriptdevil> quellhorst: hg
06:33 <+agl> Quadrescence: src/cmd/godoc
06:33 <+robpike> (although there is a python app engine cache on the front
for largely irrelevant reasons)
06:33 <+agl> quellhorst: src/cmd/godoc
06:34 <+robpike> one cool thing that's not obvious about godoc
06:34 < joeyadams> I wrote a trivial program that starts goroutines:
06:34 <+robpike> godoc is also a command-line tool
06:34 < mjard> yeah, three links on reddits proggit
06:34 <+robpike> you can say godoc fmt Printf
06:34 -!- ninja123 [n=ninja123@] has joined #go-nuts
06:34 < scriptdevil> iant: It is good that a mainstream system programming
language after ages.
06:34 < joeyadams> Problem is, on my system (Linux/386), it only uses one
06:34 < ceh> Good morning.
06:34 < uman> robpike, heh, I disagree with your way of pronouncing "fmt"
06:34 -!- Hong_MinHee [n=dahlia@] has joined #go-nuts
06:34 < uman> just saying "format" sounds much more natural
06:34 < quellhorst> the google video on go is too slow
06:34 <+robpike> at the shell.  what's neat about that is that the template
package means the same code is doing all the work; it's just a formatting decision
at the end
06:34 < Loafers> Cool here is Rob Pike:
06:35 < quellhorst> 50 mbps and a tiny youtube vid is hanging.
06:35 -!- xmonader [n=ahmed@] has quit ["Leaving."]
06:35 < bthomson> just download it
06:35 -!- epalm [n=eric@user248-110.vpn.utoronto.ca] has quit [Client Quit]
06:35 <+robpike> set GOMAXPROCS to the number of cores you want to use
06:35 <+robpike> or call runtime.GOMAXPROCS(N)
06:35 <+agl> joeyadams: there's an env var to set the number of OS threads
to use.
06:35 < joeyadams> hmm
06:35 <+agl> joeyadams: just listen to Rob :)
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06:36 < joeyadams> Did he do the Google Talk?
06:36 <+robpike> depending on what you're doing, it might slow you down
because of locking, but some of the stuff in /test/bench uses it well
06:36 < joeyadams> I already listened to that
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06:36 < Quadrescence> agl: Me Rob or Pike Rob?
06:36 < justinvh> So, what's the thoughts of the other programming language
Go! -- How far does the argument of "same-name" apply to "go"?
06:36 < justinvh> I would hope not very far.
06:36 <+agl> Quadrescence: the Pike variety
06:36 < uman> justinvh, stop trolling
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06:36 -!- jessta [n=jessta@li7-205.members.linode.com] has joined #go-nuts
06:36 < justinvh> uman: How is that trolling?
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06:37 < epalm> thanks antarus, robpike, agl
06:37 < Loafers> Is it okay to go nouts in this channel?
06:37 -!- jlbnet [n=jlbnet@] has joined #go-nuts
06:37 < Loafers> nuts*
06:37 < DJCapelis> robpike: A dream feature would be for it to detect and do
the right thing.  Perhaps when the standard lib is installed a default value could
be generated for the machine the lib is being installed on?  Or do you forsee that
everyone will just have that variable appropriate set in their environment?
06:37 < joeyadams> robpike> Ah, thanks
06:37 -!- Sp3c1alK_ [n=specialk@jmerlin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
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06:37 <+robpike> we're just used to having those vars and crosscompiling all
the time.  we should probably automate it a little more
06:38 < StevenTyler> hello!!!!
06:38 < antarus> DJCapelis: it seems like you could do that via a small
library call
06:38 < antarus> look in /proc/cpuinfo
06:38 < antarus> see how many cpus you have, set var accordingly
06:38 < epalm> oh hey, robpike, just finished watching the talk, sounds
06:38 < fynn> robpike: What is the ultimate vision for Go? where do you see
it being used?
06:38 < DJCapelis> antarus: yes, but it would be a shame to do that at the
start of every process during startup code...
06:38 < StevenTyler> looks interesting, hopefully it will become one if the
leading commercial languages
06:38 <+robpike> epalm: thanks.  try it out
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06:38 <+robpike> ultimate vision?  just that it catches on enough to be
useful to people
06:38 < Loafers> commercial?
06:38 < DJCapelis> antarus: one of the nice things about gcd that isn't
present here is the ability for something to inform your decisions based on
available hardware.
06:39 < DJCapelis> especially if we want to consider hotplugging cpus.
06:39 < sanxiyn> Programming languages are...  used for programming.
06:39 < Jerub> it looks useful for all those pythony things i do that just
aren't fast enough.
06:39 < fynn> robpike: I mean, used for which things specifically?  :)
06:39 < DJCapelis> (and by hotplugging I just mean offlining and online
cores dynamically, which some power management tools might want to do)
06:39 <+robpike> some of the comments on the web seem to miss the point, so
maybe the ultimate vision is that people "get" it eventually
06:39 < uman> robpike, do you know to what extent Google will begin using Go
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06:39 < chrome> the plan9 naming convention for the toolchain is a bit twee.
06:39 -!- hugo_dc [n=hugo@] has joined #go-nuts
06:39 < sanxiyn> uman: Read FAQ.
06:40 < abbyz> I should RTFM, but can I pass an anonymous function as a
parameter to a function?
06:40 -!- shakesoda [n=shakesod@c-67-183-112-91.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined
06:40 <+agl> abbyz: yes
06:40 <+iant> abbyz: sure
06:40 < sanxiyn> abbyz: yes
06:40 <+robpike> we're using it internally but only for experiments now.
there's a lot of work to do to make it solid enough for large-scale production,
mostly libraries and such to talk to existing infrastructure.  but we're working
on it
06:40 < epalm> seems that i'm still having trouble building
http://pastebin.com/d3bb97fdc that's the end of ./all.bash
06:40 < abbyz> agl, iant, sanxiyn: is there an example in the docs?
06:40 < hugo_dc> Hi
06:40 < sanxiyn> I heard protocol buffer code generator is coming.
06:40 < sanxiyn> Thrift?
06:40 < uman> sanxiyn, the FAQ answers a similar but different question
06:40 -!- theatrus [n=user@] has joined #go-nuts
06:40 < joeyadams> Is there a function for setting GOMAXPROCS to the number
of CPUs?  E.g.  runtime.GOMAXPROCS(sysconf(_SC_NPROCESSORS_ONLN))
06:40 < uman> robpike, thanks
06:40 < antarus> epalm: do you have a firewall?  the tets require internet
06:41 -!- esser [n=marceles@unaffiliated/cobol] has quit []
06:41 <+iant> abbyz: I'm not sure, but I'm sure there are examples in the
06:41 < antarus> joeyadams: I'm attempting to hack the runtime to do that on
program start
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06:41 <+robpike> joeyadams: sounds like a project for you
06:41 <+agl> epalm: that paste seems empty
06:41 < mjard> haha
06:41 -!- no_mind [n=orion@] has joined #go-nuts
06:41 < hugo_dc> I got an error trying to compile Go
06:41 < hugo_dc> FAIL: net.TestDialGoogle
06:41 < joeyadams> Should Go ideally use all CPUs by default?
06:41 < epalm> agl: loads for me...
06:41 < epalm> antarus: standard ubuntu 9.04 install, i'm behind a NAT
06:41 < fynn> Jerub: interesting.  what have you used it for so far?
06:42 < joeyadams> Or would it be better to just use one and require the
coder to manually specify to use all CPUs instead?
06:42 <+robpike> protocol buffer stuff is done, just need to find a good way
to release it.  not as simple as you'd think.  it's on our list
06:42 < antarus> if the net_ or http_ tests fail it might be network related
06:42 < Loafers> Why isn't Go working for me?
06:42 < antarus> because they go to the internet and try to do things
06:42 <+iant> hugo_dc, epalm: that test fails in some cases, depending on
DNS, by the time you reach the point the compiler and libraries have been built
06:42 <+agl> epalm: oh, sorry.  The line wrapped.  Try hg pull -u first
06:42 -!- crawshaw [n=david@CPE-121-210-88-66.gxeb1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit
06:42 < antarus> iant: I'd say you could be cheap and start up a tiny
webserver to test without instead of pointing at live google services ;p
06:42 < Loafers> Why do I need a plugin to play Go?
06:42 < epalm> agl: in $GOROOT?
06:42 <+agl> epalm: yes
06:42 < antarus> er with*
06:43 -!- JKnife [n=JKnife@gr33nn1nj4.com] has joined #go-nuts
06:43 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+o agl] by ChanServ
06:43 < DJCapelis> joeyadams: it seems like the exact approach on how to
best deal with that hasn't been decided yet, though of course at the moment you're
free to do it programatically but the future seems like it'll lead to a better
06:43 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+b *!*n=loafers@ip68-225-14-205.pv.oc.cox.net] by agl
06:43 -!- Loafers was kicked from #go-nuts by agl [agl]
06:43 < chrome> well, the network tests fail on a lot of corporate networks
06:43 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-o agl] by agl
06:43 < JKnife> any windows port?
06:43 <+agl> JKnife: none yet
06:43 -!- epalm [n=eric@user248-110.vpn.utoronto.ca] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
06:43 <+iant> JKnife: not yet
06:43 < hugo_dc> thank you iant
06:43 < JKnife> ok, i guess i could try in SFU or Cygwin
06:43 -!- tabo [n=tabot@camelot.tabo.pe] has joined #go-nuts
06:44 <+robpike> joeyadams: some programs work better when there's no memory
contention, some need it.  it's hard to automate, which is why it's not automatic
06:44 < joeyadams> Right.  I think it'd make sense to have a function to set
it to default
06:44 < Capso> JKnife, also doesn't function in Cygwin, I believe
06:44 < joeyadams> e.g.  os.GoMaxProcs(...) and os.GoMaxProcs() for default
06:44 < JKnife> well damn...  *sits back and waits*
06:44 < joeyadams> though I just assumed Go supports default arguments
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06:45 < joeyadams> or maybe just runtime.GOMAXPROCS(int) and
06:46 -!- nickgibbon [n=nring@] has joined #go-nuts
06:46 <+robpike> you don't need runtime to find the number of cpu's.  that's
computable by something in syscall, which captures the native OS interface.
06:46 < scriptdevil> http://pastebin.com/d47493464 is this a successful
06:46 -!- bryce_ [n=bryce@c-76-121-192-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
06:47 < Kniht> JKnife: windows does run VMs with non-windows OS on them, and
you should always dual boot if you're interested in programming and systems, imho
06:47 < chrome> where do the go.* files in misc/xcode belong?
06:47 < abbyz> woot!
06:47 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@] has joined #go-nuts
06:47 < abbyz> i CPSed my fact.
06:47 < javarants2> chrome: it tells you in the files
06:47 < joeyadams> robpike> Ah, makes sense.  Would os.GoMaxProcs(int)
and os.NumCpus() make sense?
06:47 < DJCapelis> So far this is my favorite commit:
06:48 < chrome> ah hmm.
06:48 <+robpike> there is already runtime.GOMAXPROCS(int)
06:48 <+agl> scriptdevil: it's a little odd, but you can probably ignore it.
06:48 < joeyadams> I just ask because runtime.GOMAXPROCS(int) looks kinda
hackish (with the capital letters)
06:48 < scriptdevil> agl: :) Thanks
06:48 < antarus> It looks hackish because commented above it says "this
should go away when the scheduler is improved" :)
06:49 < joeyadams> and if the num cpus function doesn't need to go in
runtime because syscall exists, we'd have two similar-purpose functions in two
different modules
06:49 <+robpike> joeyadams: it's spelled like that because of the env var.
you're right it looks hackish.
06:49 < drusepth> I just read about Go on /.  and am considering looking
into it tomorrow (it's a bit late tonight), but I'm curious whether it has
documented support for sockets atm
06:49 < joeyadams> e.g.  runtime.GOMAXPROCS(os.NumCpus())
06:49 <+robpike> scriptdevil: cd $GOROOT/src/pkg; make test
06:49 <+robpike> if that succeeds you're fine
06:49 -!- eydaimon [n=eydaimon@unaffiliated/anywho] has joined #go-nuts
06:49 <+agl> drhodes: yes golang.org/pkg/net
06:49 < drusepth> gotcha
06:50 < msw> iant: I got things happy, I broke gotest
06:50 < drusepth> Thanks - will definitely check out tomorrow then :)
06:50 <+robpike> joeyadams: that seems ok to me
06:50 <+agl> oh look, we made /.
06:50 < joeyadams> Did I get the naming convention correct on that one?
06:50 <+robpike> agl: took them surprisingly long
06:50 < JKnife> Kniht: true, but i just reinstalled, and before i set up a
new VM i am gonna wait for F12 to be released...  wait..  :D i am on a CentOS VPS
06:51 <+robpike> joeyadams: NumCPUs seems better
06:51 -!- sanxiyn [n=tinuviel@] has left #go-nuts ["전 이만 갑니다."]
06:51 < joeyadams> I dunno.  I normally think of BumpyCaps as "each word
starts with a cap"
06:51 < drusepth> Oh, /.  article is at
if you didn't catch it
06:51 < drusepth> :)
06:51 < joeyadams> however, dbSomething breaks the pattern
06:51 < joeyadams> in lowercase, you say dbSomething.  In caps, DBSomething
arguably looks better than DbSomething
06:52 < antarus> joeyadams: looks like the 'sysinfo' syscall has what you
06:52 < antarus> but only for linux?  bah
06:52 < scriptdevil> robpike: Thanks
06:52 <+robpike> joeyadams: we're trying to keep initializations as caps, as
in HTTP and URL not Http and Url
06:52 < joeyadams> ah, okay
06:52 <+robpike> scripdevil: did it work ok?
06:53 < JKnife> drusepth: that is how i found out :)
06:53 < joeyadams> antarus> So what's better?  sysinfo or
06:53 -!- RazvanM [n=RazvanM@dazzler.isi.jhu.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No
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06:54 < joeyadams> Hmm, I guess a fancy testcase could be used that compares
whatever is used with /proc/cpuinfo
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06:56 < flea__> what would be the best way to emulate operator overloading?
with interfaces?
06:56 < chrome> any reason why I'd be getting this with the hello world
example: main.go:1 not a function
06:56 < chrome> line 1 is "package main"
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06:57 < chrome> oh i'm an idiot.
06:57 <+robpike> chrome: are you using a c compiler instead of a go
compiler?  e.g.  6c not 6g?
06:57 < scriptdevil> robpike: Yeah.  I got a PASS.  Thanks
06:57 <+robpike> scriptdevil: cool.  have fun
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06:58 < scriptdevil> robpike: This channel has some of the most enthusiastic
moderators :D GO GO GO!!!
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reset by peer)]
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06:58 < chrome> scriptdevil: tjat
06:58 < chrome> that will pass
06:58 < chrome> :P
06:58 < flea__> is it really 11PM in Mountain View?  that's what I call
06:58 < antarus> joeyadams: I'm not sure how you can call sysconf (I don't
see it in the syscall pkg)
06:58 <+robpike> it's only 10:59
06:58 <+agl> flea__: yes it is.  I, for one, will be going to sleep soon :)
06:58 < Quadrescence> flea__: All programmers stay up late and code.
06:58 < antarus> flea__: some of us are night stalkers ;)
06:59 < eydaimon> so microsoft went with an OCaml type language, and now go
seems to be another imperative language.  Interesting
06:59 < JKnife> woo building on my vps :D
06:59 < antarus> I should stop messing with go and finish my work ;)
06:59 < scriptdevil> eydaimon: Looks like functions are first class members.
06:59 < scriptdevil> eydaimon: Infact, that was my first question :D
06:59 <+robpike> flea__: operator overloading isn't there syntactically at
all.  but yes, interfaces are the best way to capture different implementations of
the same operator, as long as your operator can be expressed as a method
07:00 <+robpike> functions are true closures
07:00 -!- jamesr [n=jamesr@c-76-102-52-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit []
07:00 < joeyadams> How do you all usually type the · symbol?
07:00 < JKnife> damn OpenVZ...
07:00 < eydaimon> scriptdevil: :)
07:00 <+kaib> joeyadams: we don't.
07:00 -!- Skel [n=JustinHo@cpe-024-211-196-059.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
07:00 < JKnife> can't read input: open /dev/stdin: no such file or directory
07:00 < eydaimon> odd way of doing the build stuff
07:01 <+kaib> joeyadams: why do you need it?
07:01 < antarus> JKnife: er, what OS are you trying this on?  :)
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07:01 <+iant> good night all, see you in the morning
07:02 < antarus> night iant
07:02 < mjard> night
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07:02 < scriptdevil> iant: night :)
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07:03 < eydaimon> I'm looking forward to fooling around with it :)
07:03 < eydaimon> what i'd like to see is some unity between languages and
building shared object libraries
07:03 <+robpike> you shouldn't need to type the center dot.  it's an
implementation detail in gc that's actually going away.
07:03 <+robpike> in go programs you just type .
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07:05 < eydaimon> robpike: know if anyone has started a port for macports?
I don't see anything submitted
07:05 < eydaimon> I'll whip it together now if noone else has
07:05 < JKnife> antarus: CentOS 5 in a OpenVZ VPS
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07:05 < mjard> that gopher is growing on me
07:05 < Eridius> eydaimon: the problem with making a Port is there would
need to be a source tarball download
07:05 < chrome> I think they want people using mercurial until go is
07:05 <+robpike> eydaimon: not that i know of
07:06 < Eridius> eydaimon: the standard way of dealing with projects that
don't have one is to host such a tarball on the macports servers, but I don't know
if go is in a state where the source should be frozen for distribution
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07:06 < flea__> robpike: so if i have multiple types with a 'plus' method, I
could use an interface with a plus method
07:06 < eydaimon> Eridius: not really.  the ports system supports repos
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07:06 < andguent> robpike, rsc9: is there a windows port in the work?
07:06 -!- ap0th [n=chatzill@c-24-15-198-188.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined
07:06 < Eridius> eydaimon: ports aren't supposed to use the version control
fetch mechanisms
07:06 <+robpike> i think a tarball at a release tag makes sense but it's
probably a little early to set one up
07:06 < eydaimon> Eridius: oic what you mean
07:06 < Eridius> eydaimon: that mechanism was designed for ports in
07:06 < ap0th> hello, i'm having trouble with install
07:06 <+agl> andguent: no Windows port yet
07:06 < eydaimon> Eridius: it does support you tagging it yourself though
07:06 < antarus> JKnife: hrm, not sure how OpenVZ handles /dev
07:06 <+rsc9> andguent: no.  want to write one?
07:07 <+robpike> flea__: yes, but you can't call it +
07:07 < eydaimon> Eridius: it's better than not having a port at all
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07:07 < andguent> rsc9: well i still got my stuff to do on 9vx ;)
07:07 <+robpike> no windows port in the works.  love to have one
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07:07 < Eridius> eydaimon: perhaps.  The other issue is `port install` can't
set up the required env variables
07:07 < eydaimon> Eridius: have you tried ?
07:07 < antarus> How are you going to handle libraries bundled with go
versus third party libraries?
07:07 <+agl> ap0th: you're going to have to give some details
07:08 < eydaimon> Eridius: and having a go-devel port is perfectly
acceptable way to get around the repo thing
07:08 < Eridius> eydaimon: well in theory it could munge your .bash_profile
or something, but that would be extremely frowned upon and would be editing files
outside of the sandbox
07:08 < flea__> ok, so type method names cannot be reserved words or
07:08 < Eridius> eydaimon: true, if you wanted to call it go-devel then
making it based on the repo would be fine, but you still have the env var issues
07:08 <+robpike> flea__: correct
07:08 < eydaimon> Eridius: I'm not convinced that the env vars is an issue
07:08 < ap0th> during "making lib9" of all.bash
07:08 <+agl> antarus: no firm plans yet, but there's a reason why import
statements take a string, no a token.
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07:09 <+rsc9> ap0th: drop the transcript into pastebin.com and send us the
07:09 < Eridius> eydaimon: unless go can operate just fine without them (and
if so, why do install instructions tell you they're required variables?), it is an
issue.  a Portfile cannot safely edit the user's .bash_profile, nor should it be
doing such a thing
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07:09 < andguent> rsc9: but i have a look at it.  i guess...dunno how much
trouble it'll be.  one thing that comes to my mind is at least PE support, which i
have no clue about..at all
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07:09 < chrome> robpike: do you recommend integrating gofmt into the
build/test cycle to automatically format the code as you work on it?
07:09 -!- epalm [n=eric@bas1-portcredit33-1176388860.dsl.bell.ca] has joined
07:09 < eydaimon> Eridius: I'm not sure what you're talking about.
07:09 <+robpike> chrome: sure.  it's fast and easy.  not every keystroke but
once in a while
07:10 <+rsc9> andguent: go on windows is probably easier and more
interesting than 9vx anyway.
07:10 < Eridius> eydaimon: in order to set the env vars, the Portfile would
have to edit your .bash_profile.  Do you accept that as true?
07:10 < eydaimon> Eridius: nope
07:10 < chrome> robpike: I was considering adding it to my Makefile ;)
07:10 <+robpike> we think gofmt is a radical idea but it will take a while
for its radicalness to be appreciated
07:10 < Eridius> eydaimon: ok, what alternative would you propose?
07:10 < flea__> any plans for function overloading?  or is it just more 'go'
to define multiple types and use interfaces?
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07:11 < chrome> robpike: actually, its not too way out there.  A lot of
shops already insist code be run through indent with certain flags before
committing to repo.
07:11 <+robpike> flea__: if by function overloading you mean same name,
different types, no.  see the language design faq
07:11 < eydaimon> Eridius: I'm going to cut this discussion short and just
make the Portfile to prove my point instead.
07:11 * antarus appreciates anything that enforces style; even style he hates
07:11 < ghoti_> I having having trouble with exec->Run(), Has anyone
figured it out?
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07:11 < andguent> rsc9: first thing that fails is obivously the p9p bits.  i
try to tackle them first when i find some time this week
07:11 -!- mjard_ is now known as mjard
07:11 < joeyadams> "kaib> joeyadams: why do you need it?" => That's
apparently how the C->Go stuff works; I dunno.
07:11 < Eridius> eydaimon: fair enough.  If you need it committed, I can do
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07:11 < flea__> robpike: I am slowly going through the site, but first I
need to finish your presentation :)
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07:11 <+robpike> chrome: right, but gofmt is more aggressive and also part
of the system.  hg requires you to run it before submitting to the depot.  all go
code is gofmtified
07:11 < chrome> robpike: how safe is gofmt -w=true ?
07:11 <+robpike> chrome: we use it all the time
07:12 < joeyadams> I'm trying to figure out how to implement NumCPUs, and I
know this isn't quite how to do it:
07:12 < ap0th> http://pastebin.com/m520376ca
07:12 <+kaib> joeyadams: right.  like rob said it's going away, i just copy
and paste it from somewhere or type alt dot dot in acme
07:12 <+rsc9> ap0th: cool.
07:12 < eydaimon> Eridius: cool.  give me some 30 mins
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07:12 < Eridius> joeyadams: how about using sysctl?
07:12 < Eridius> or does that not exist on all supported platforms
07:12 < chrome> robpike: now if only you could force people to comment :P
07:12 < joeyadams> Okay, we're looking at syscall, sysctl, and sysconf
07:12 <+robpike> joeyadams: it doesn't belong in runtime.
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07:12 < Libster> does the go programming language have a search bar?
07:12 < antarus> joeyadams: you should write it in go, not C
07:13 < ap0th> thanks rsc9
07:13 <+robpike> you need sysctl or sysconf support in syscall and then it's
just a library call
07:13 < antarus> joeyadams: thats why I pointed you at the syscall pkg and
sysinfo ;)
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07:13 < antarus> after grepping through teh source I got the impression most
of the 'extras' were written in go and not C :)
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tokuhiro_____, (+2 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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07:13 <+robpike> Libster: http://golang.org has a rudimentary search on the
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07:13 < Libster> no i meant the actual language does it have a search bar in
07:14 < Capso> robpike: just ban
07:14 <+robpike> C was important for bootstrapping.  its importance to the
runtime will diminish i suspect
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07:14 <+robpike> Libster: sorry i don't understand
07:14 < Libster> sorry i will think of a better question to troll with
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07:14 < Libster> give me a minute
07:15 < Eridius> so who's going to implement the first Go AI in Go?
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07:15 < andguent> robpike: just wondering.  what was the rational to write
something new instead of fixing limbo?
07:15 <+robpike> andguent: wanted to run on the bare metal
07:15 < ghoti_> http://pastebin.com/de9500dc <- Can anyone see whats is
wrong here?
07:15 <+robpike> andguent: also, the type system is totally different from
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07:16 < abbyz> andguent: and also http://9fans.net/archive/2009/11/120
07:16 <+robpike> ghoti: (nice name by the way mr.fish): exec.Run
07:17 < andguent> abbyz: i kind of stopped reading 9fans.  too much noise
07:17 < ghoti_> robpike: oh, thats silly.  sorry about that, thanks
07:17 < Eridius> ok, since strings are immutable, isn't hte Echo demo in the
tutorial pretty inefficient?
07:17 < Associat0r> no op overloading?
07:17 < Associat0r> what about math stuff?
07:17 < ap0th> http://pastebin.com/m520376ca <---problem installing go on
07:17 <+robpike> Eridius: yes.  if you had a long arg list a bytes.Buffer
would be better
07:17 -!- paulbaumgart [n=paulbaum@cpe-66-75-245-65.san.res.rr.com] has quit []
07:18 <+robpike> or you could use bytes.Add
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07:18 <+robpike> Associat0r: what about math stuff?
07:18 < antarus> Associat0r: I assume you could define routines like Add,
Multiply, Divide, etc...
07:18 < chrome> robpike: oh, multiple return values, cool.
07:18 < mjard> Libster: still thinking?
07:18 < Libster> yeah give me a minute
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07:19 < Libster> do you have any suggestions?
07:19 < CESSMASTER> are there plans to integrate Go with V8?
07:19 <+robpike> chrome: that was ken's idea
07:19 < Libster> what have the previous trolls been doing
07:19 -!- Morphius [n=morphius@adsl-69-151-27-22.dsl.lbcktx.swbell.net] has joined
07:19 < chrome> robpike: he gets a cookie for that one.
07:19 < chrome> (or a beer)
07:19 < Associat0r> antarus yes but that kinda clutters the code
07:19 < eydaimon> Eridius: you planning to be around in 30 mins?
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07:19 < Morphius> I'm getting a whole bunch of "file not found" errors when
trying to run ./all.bash on Ubuntu 9.04 x86
07:19 <+robpike> something you won't appreciate until you've used it for a
while is the initialization.  compare the rpc package's setup with how you'd do it
with something like protocol buffers
07:19 -!- jcgregorio_ is now known as jcgregorio
07:20 < Eridius> eydaimon: most likely
07:20 < Morphius> I have a clean source tree from Mercurial.
07:20 < Associat0r> robpike math stuff like vectors matrices etc
07:20 < antarus> ap0th: you have no /usr/include/limits.h ?
07:20 < Morphius> Am i missing something?
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07:20 <+robpike> Associat0r: not much.  feel free to build stuff
07:20 < mjard> Libster: very few trolls this evening, you had a decent
07:20 < Associat0r> robpike I mean with regards to lack of op overloading
07:20 < Libster> oh
07:20 < Eridius> Morphius: what is it claiming not to find?
07:20 < andguent> are there plans to have a 9P lib in go?  i think that
could give the 9P situation a whole new spin
07:21 <+robpike> CESSMASTER: no plans but we've talked about things like
that.  we really want go in the browser
07:21 < sstangl> andguent: someone in #plan9 already started a project for
07:21 < Capso> andguent, Also covered in 9fans
07:21 <+robpike> andguent: no plans.  again, feel free....
07:21 < Morphius> Eridius: Makefile:5: /home/morphius/go/src/Make.linux/386:
No such file or directory
07:21 < CESSMASTER> robpike: will there be a search bar?
07:21 -!- al-maisan [n=al-maisa@f049150118.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
07:21 < eydaimon> Eridius: great.  macports has decided to install sqlite3
just to even fetch the source-code
07:21 < eday> is there any plans to natively support distributed goroutines
(ie, like Erlang processes)?
07:21 < Capso> CESSMASTER, is all of #not-math going to come here with that
07:21 < andguent> robpike: all right.  sorry for bothering.
07:21 < Eridius> Morphius: I take it your $GOOS is set to "linux"?
07:21 < Eridius> eydaimon: yeah, you have to pull in all Mercurial
dependencies :p
07:22 < mjard> Libster: so don't strain yourself, just let it flow
07:22 < Morphius> Eridius: Yes.
07:22 < antarus> robpike: aha, I knew I liked := from somewhere; spirited it
away from szl eh ;)
07:22 < epalm> slicing doesn't seem to allow python-like a[1:] (everything
after the first element)
07:22 <+robpike> it originated in newsqueak
07:22 < ap0th> antarus - I'm getting a quietgcc: command not found error
07:22 < Libster> mjard: it takes time
07:23 < antarus> ap0th: quietgcc should be located at $GOBIN/quietgcc, make
sure $GOBIN is in your PATH
07:23 < antarus> ap0th: i assume 'which quietgcc' returns nothing
07:24 < Morphius> Eridius: nvm...  $GOARCH incorrectly set...  misread the
docs and put linux/386.  Not I'm getting quietgcc not found.
07:24 < Eridius> ahh
07:24 < eydaimon> Eridius: I already had it installed :P
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07:24 < Eridius> eydaimon: via MacPorts?
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07:24 < Libster> has anyone made any games yet in Go? I was thinking of
making an MMORPG
07:24 < eydaimon> Eridius: aye.  macports is really weird that way
07:25 < KirkMcDonald> Libster: Heh.  Go has only been public for a matter of
07:25 < no_mind> go appears to be a good language for gaming
07:25 < Libster> o
07:25 < Libster> i was gonna make a halo mod with it
07:25 < Eridius> eydaimon: macports doesn't trust anything from the system
07:25 < sfuentes> anyone able to install go using cygwin?
07:25 < epalm> victory!  http://pastebin.ca/1666097
07:25 < epalm> / prints 15
07:25 < mjard> Libster: that was decent, not great
07:25 < Eridius> hrm robpike make.bash's validity test for GOOS and GOARCH
don't catch everything
07:25 < eydaimon> Eridius: alright, got it to download.  now to get it to
compile :)
07:25 < Libster> sorry
07:25 < andguent> sfuentes: go certainly won't run out of the box on cygwin
07:25 < Libster> i'll think of a better one
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07:25 < mjard> good
07:26 < Associat0r> robpike I meant math in regards to op overloading?
07:26 <+robpike> no op overloading.  the language design faq mentions this
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07:26 < sfuentes> andguent: i have verified that
07:26 -!- DWarrior1 [n=axfv@c-71-63-157-143.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined
07:26 < Eridius> oh wait I tested that wrong.  actually the test should work
fine.  I don't know why Morphius didn't have an error spit out when he had his
GOOS set wrong
07:27 < Associat0r> robpike also no defining of new operators right?
07:27 <+robpike> functions and methods only
07:27 < Associat0r> robpike ok thanks
07:27 -!- breadtk [n=breadtk@persian-rose.feralhosting.com] has joined #go-nuts
07:27 < breadtk> Ok wow...seriously google?
07:27 < breadtk> You guys are aiming for world domination guys
07:27 * breadtk bows
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07:29 < level09> i just heard about this new lang ..  is it for the desktop
primarily ?
07:29 < Morphius> So my quietgcc not found issue was solved my an 'mkdir
~/gobin' (which is what $GOBIN is set to)
07:29 -!- mheath [n=michaelh@75-169-103-11.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
07:29 < DJCapelis> level09: There's no reason it would be restricted to the
desktop really...
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07:30 < drhodes> put together a nearly useless import graph (~2MB) of the
pkg directory: http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7964/goimportgraph.png
07:31 < fynn> why is the receiver definition syntax so verbose?  :/ it's
making me miss self
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07:31 < abbyz> why is it not fair to call sum this way -
sum([1:3]int{1,2,3,4}) or sum(&[1:3]int{1,2,3,4})?
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07:32 < abbyz> the slices bounds don't wrap.  array[3:1] gives a runtime
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07:32 < Quadrescence> robpike: Excuse this 99% off-topic question, but could
you, by chance, draw a mascot for C89 (with the same style as plan9 and go)?
07:33 <+robpike> it's not me it's renee french.
07:33 -!- robot12 [n=robot12@inferno.kgts.ru] has joined #go-nuts
07:33 <+robpike> abbyz: i don't understand your syntax.  the array type is
[n]int not [1:3] int
07:34 < Jerub> robpike: are there any australian Go googlers?
07:34 < robot12> hi all :)
07:34 <+robpike> just say []int{1,2,3,4}
07:34 <+robpike> jerub: yes
07:34 < Jerub> robpike: 2009.osdc.com.au is only 3 weeks away, and there's a
space or two in the schedule.
07:34 < mjard> robpike: the multiplexing example reminds me a lot of actors
in scala, any plans having channels that work over a network?  or is that just a
little too high level?
07:34 -!- monkfish [n=chatzill@pc4231.stdby.hin.no] has joined #go-nuts
07:34 < robot12> robpike, is there a version for Plan9 ? :)
07:34 -!- bryce_ [n=bryce@c-76-121-192-70.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit []
07:35 <+robpike> fynn: it's not that verbose if you look at it fairly.  you
need to say what the type is because you can't declare a method inside a struct -
what if the type is not a struct?
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07:35 <+robpike> mjard: see gob and rpc packages.  and more is sure to come
07:36 <+robpike> robot12: not yet
07:36 -!- KiNgMaR [n=ingmar@endgegner.net] has joined #go-nuts
07:37 < fynn> robpike: you may be right; somehow I just think there could be
an OOP syntax that gives programmers the concise, familiar syntax they like for
little cost.
07:37 < eydaimon> Eridius: hm.  everytime I change the portfile, macports
wants to download the repo again...  unless I can figure that part out, it may
take awhile :/
07:37 < fynn> Is there any plan to support macros?
07:38 < Eridius> eydaimon: I don't know anything about the mercurial fetch
type.  I've only used the svn/git types before
07:38 <+robpike> fynn: no macros
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07:38 < eydaimon> Eridius: any idea how to do it there?  I'm almost at it
compiling now
07:38 < scriptdevil> Hmmm.  One less than 200
07:39 * theatrus likes the look of the rpc library
07:39 <+rsc9> drhodes: there should be a clear ordering--the package
dependencies are a dag--but the graph doesn't show it.  you might try starting
with $GOROOT/src/pkg/Make.deps instead, which is package level as opposed to file
07:39 -!- sjbrown_ [n=sjbrown@] has joined #go-nuts
07:39 < eydaimon> Eridius: duh, I'll make it clone locally :)
07:39 < sjbrown_> this language has me jazzed
07:39 < drhodes> ok rsc9, thanks
07:39 < scriptdevil> 200 :) The limit is reached
07:40 -!- bvalek2 [n=bvalek2@] has joined #go-nuts
07:40 < sjbrown_> do i win a prize?
07:40 -!- aatifh [n=atif@] has joined #go-nuts
07:40 < scriptdevil> sjbrown_: Yeah.  ChoGO
07:40 < aatifh> ping
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(Connection timed out)]
07:41 < sjbrown_> how are the packages discovered?  is there something like
PYTHONPATH in python?
07:41 < sjbrown_> or is it a compiler flag?
07:41 -!- Ycros [n=ycros@] has joined #go-nuts
07:41 <+robpike> sjbrown: the env vars GOROOT GOARCH GOOS
07:42 -!- theoros` is now known as theoros
07:42 < sjbrown_> GOOS?  is it preceeded by a bunch of DUKs?
07:42 -!- bvalek2 [n=bvalek2@] has left #go-nuts []
07:42 <+robpike> just say GOOS GOARCH repeatedly until you feel better
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07:43 < epalm> heh, no mention of windows in the faq
07:44 < theatrus> hmm, something you don't see in many standard libraries,
an asn1 parser
07:44 < sjbrown_> i like the scrapping of header files.  god, i hate those
07:44 -!- jwnz [n=user@CPE001839f8e82b-CM0017ee6363de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com]
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07:45 < sjbrown_> the for syntax is also super nice
07:45 < Eridius> eydaimon: I'm going to bed.  If you get the Portfile
working, just email it to me at <kevin@sb.org> and I'll take care of
committing it tomorrow
07:45 < scriptdevil> sjbrown_: Infact, DUK seems like a good name for a
library written in GO :P
07:45 < jdp> robpike are there future plans to get rid of the GO*
environment variables?
07:45 -!- theoros [n=theoros@unaffiliated/theoros] has left #go-nuts []
07:45 -!- shaiguitar_ is now known as shaiguitar
07:45 < theatrus> I hope there was some underlying reason for that, not just
to complete the kitchen sink ;)
07:45 -!- eno__ [n=eno@] has joined #go-nuts
07:45 <+robpike> jdp: no plans.  are they a problem other than the initial
setup?  we crosscompile all the time and being able to flip builds is very handy
07:46 < jdp> no they aren't, you're right
07:46 < scriptdevil> sjbrown_: Can Google ever go wrong is the question.  I
dont wanna sound like a fanboy.  But I am positively amazed at the maturity and
completeness of a 2 day old language.  (Forget the 2 years of development)
07:46 <+robpike> you need asn1 for x509 for SSL
07:46 < Eridius> robpike: I'm of the opinion that crosscompiling should be
achieved by passing -arch flags to the compiler
07:46 < Eridius> and with that, I'm going to sleep.  g'night
07:46 < uman> when (if ever) will Go be available for Windows?
07:46 < KiNgMaR> <- wondering about Windows support as well
07:47 < mjard> heh
07:47 < epalm> windows isn't mentioned anywhere in the faq
07:47 <+robpike> Eridius: that means different makefiles and all that, or
else some other configuration management setup.  env vars work great
07:47 < sjbrown_> scriptdevil, are you waiting for the Google Bob?
07:47 < mrd`> Pft, use a real OS. :P
07:47 < uman> also, my humble recommendation is that you put this in the FAQ
07:47 < uman> mrd`, that's a useless answer
07:47 < theatrus> oh I missed the whole ssl library, last I dealt with asn1
was with SNMP on embedded microcontrollers
07:47 <+robpike> uman: you're right
07:47 < mjard> uman: you have to respect the fact that it's very very rare
that the tables are turned this way
07:48 < eydaimon> Eridius: I'll email you the ticket
07:48 < sjbrown_> the only bad taste I have from go so far is the
prediliction for unxstyl names
07:48 < eydaimon> Eridius: I'll file it as per usual
07:48 < antarus> Eridius: meh, I dunno when I cross-compile I typically set
CHOST, CTARGET, etc...and my build system handles talking to the compiler for me;
I don't see how this is conceptually different?
07:48 < uman> mjard, for a reason: Windows is very popular
07:48 -!- harja [n=maharj@] has joined #go-nuts
07:48 < ggbgg> uman: not among programmers.
07:48 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@53.250.sfcn.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No
route to host)]
07:48 < scriptdevil> uman: For developers and hackers.  It is always *nix
07:48 < fgb> relax
07:49 < uman> scriptdevil, er, have you ever been a professional programmer?
07:49 * scriptdevil turns back to "Effective Go"
07:49 < uman> what you use is rarely "whatever the programmers personally
07:49 < scriptdevil> uman: Nope :P
07:49 < Morphius> Okay.  New issue.  I get this error when building Go:
07:49 < joeyadams> Does Go have something like using?
07:49 < joeyadams> e.g.  using fmt;
07:49 < joeyadams> Println("Ah, much better");
07:50 -!- RazvanM [n=RazvanM@pool-173-75-187-87.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has
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07:50 <+robpike> joeyadams: import . "fmt" but it's frowned upon because it
can introduce name clashes
07:50 < joeyadams> instead of having fmt.  before every Println
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07:50 < antarus> joeyadams: package.method is one of the things I love about
the google python style guide
07:50 < epalm> robpike: such a clash will prevent compilation?
07:50 < antarus> (that they seem to have adapted here)
07:50 < Ycros> joeyadams: the explicitness is nice
07:50 < antarus> adopted?  somethign
07:51 < antarus> epalm: I dunno, let me try to build an example
07:51 * flea__ thinks it's time to install
07:51 <+robpike> epalm: yes.  again, you get used to it and it keeps things
very clear.  yeah, "fmt" is unixy but it's short and unobtrusive
07:51 -!- shaiguitar [n=shaiguit@] has left #go-nuts ["Why not?"]
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07:51 * robpike is trying a new feature
07:51 * robpike is done
07:52 < Element14> @_@
07:52 -!- daglees [n=jamil@unaffiliated/daglees] has joined #go-nuts
07:53 < sjbrown_> i'd prefer "format" and "Printline" to "fmt" and "Println"
07:53 < sjbrown_> you could always do import fmt "format" to make things
07:53 < Morphius> Anyone have any idea what may be giving me that error?
07:53 <+robpike> sjbrown_: import format "fmt" does half of it
07:54 < joeyadams> I'm still trying to figure out how to get the number of
CPUs.  sysinfo doesn't have it
07:54 < joeyadams> It has "procs" which is /* Number of current processes */
07:54 < antarus> Morphius: likely you have a dns or network problem
07:54 < joeyadams> When I ran it, I got 319
07:54 < antarus> joeyadams: sec
07:54 < sjbrown_> well that's the other way around.  human-readable names
are advantageous mostly when *reading*
07:54 <+robpike> Morphius: have you done hg pull -u recently?  some network
bugs were fixed tonight
07:54 < epalm> should go code be written with the number of available
cores/processors in mind?
07:55 < eydaimon> robpike: if you had a release version, what would that be
for this release?
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07:55 < antarus> joeyadams: hrm I do fail
07:55 < mjard> looks like "fmt" is going to be one of those things you'll
end up explaining forever
07:55 <+robpike> eydaimon: please rephrase for clarity.  it's late
07:55 < joeyadams> I figured sysconf(_SC_NPROCESSORS_ONLN) would be the best
07:55 < sjbrown_> oh wow.  I just learned about Go's Interfaces.  This thing
is sooo sweet
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07:55 < Morphius> robpike: Just got the latest release tree about 20 minutes
ago; when I heard about this language.
07:55 < joeyadams> where should I put that?  syscall?
07:55 < joeyadams> sysconf isn't a syscall, apparently
07:56 < antarus> it is not
07:56 <+rsc9> eydaimon: this release's version is 2009-11-10.1
07:56 < Morphius> antarus: I'm connected to the internet....  And Idea where
I should start looking?
07:56 -!- javax [n=javax@galaxy.infidyne.com] has joined #go-nuts
07:56 <+robpike> we've seen some firewall issues.  try disabling the
firewall if you have one.
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07:56 < eydaimon> rsc9: thanks
07:56 < itrekkie> can someone clue me in on how to build the
doc/progs/cat.go example?  I keep getting an error about a missing "./file", so
I'm obviously doing something wrong…
07:56 < antarus> Morphius: assuming you can still build the hello.go example
you can likely ignore those test failurse
07:56 <+robpike> if all else fails, put the net package in the NOTEST block
in src/pkg/Makefile and file an issue please
07:56 < eydaimon> rsc9: does the -r release tag keep shifting?
07:56 <+rsc9> yes but the other tags do not
07:57 < Morphius> antarus: Okay, I'll give that a try.
07:57 <+rsc9> cat $GOROOT/.hgtags
07:57 <+robpike> itrekkie: you need to compile go/doc/progs/file.go first.
it's imported by cat.go
07:57 -!- bovv [n=crow@p2016-ipbf806yosida.nagano.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts
07:57 < eydaimon> rsc9: so if I wanted a fixed tag, what would I use?  ok
07:57 < itrekkie> robpike: ah, thank you :)
07:57 <+rsc9> anything in the second column but release
07:57 < eydaimon> rsc9: thanks :)
07:57 < eydaimon> rsc9: i.e.  hg clone -r release.2009-11-10 [etc] will
07:58 <+rsc9> yes
07:58 <+rsc9> but use 2009-11-10.1 which was the second release today and
has some important fixes
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07:58 < Morphius> antarus: Okay, you're right.  Works fine.  Thanks!  :-D
07:59 < eydaimon> rsc9: ok.  thanks
07:59 < eydaimon> rsc9: I'm just making a portfile, so right now it's not so
important to get it exactly right :)
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08:01 * fynn just built Go on OS X 10.5.8 with no issues.
08:02 < fynn> robpike: congrats on creating this :)
08:02 < psankar> I want to package go for openSUSE.  Are there any relase
tarballs that I can wget and use ?
08:02 < flea__> fynn: thats what i'm planning to do first, followed by
08:03 <+robpike> fynn: thanks!
08:04 -!- ideamonk|away is now known as ideamonk
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08:05 < eday> robpike: it being used for anything "real" internally yet, or
is it still in the toy phase?
08:05 <+robpike> eday: golang.org is real.  but mostly just toys yet
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08:06 < psankar> robpike, congrats :-)
08:06 < flea__> ok, last question for today: any plans for lambda functions?
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08:06 < eday> robpike: any plans to make goroutines/channels distributed
(like Erlang), or are you guys just stick with rpc pkg for that stuff?
08:06 < Capso> eday: the webserver upon which golang.org is running is
written in G; that's pretty real
08:06 < flea__> o_O
08:06 <+rsc9> flea__: closures are already there
08:07 <+rsc9> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Function_literals
08:07 < eday> Capso: yeah, and it's not died yet from /., so thats a good
sign :)
08:07 * flea__ looking
08:08 <+robpike> fynn: thanks and have fun
08:08 -!- CESSMASTER [n=CESSMAST@unaffiliated/joelywoely] has left #go-nuts
08:08 < flea__> ooh, nice
08:08 -!- Gib1 [n=Adium@pat1.orbitz.net] has joined #go-nuts
08:08 < flea__> well, congrats robpike and the whole go team, now ...  to
installation and hacking :)
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08:10 <+robpike> eday: no plans yet but we've talked a lot about it
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08:13 <+robpike> it's late here.  see you guys tomorrow.
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08:18 < zer0c00l> Seems like golang has got a big community ;)
08:18 -!- naderman [n=naderman@phpbb/developer/naderman] has quit [Remote closed
the connection]
08:18 < scriptdevil> zer0c00l: Yeah :) In its very first days
08:18 < pmv> heh
08:19 < joeyadams> I think it'll die down after a while (when people go
"okay, neat, later")
08:19 < mjard> eday: yeah, that's something I'm also very interested in
08:19 < joeyadams> though the long-term trend will likely be growth
08:19 < zer0c00l> hey scriptdevil
08:19 < scriptdevil> hey!
08:19 < zer0c00l> Any one packaging golang for fedora?
08:19 < scriptdevil> I see some level of inconsistency with the ; Some lines
in the tut use it.  Some dont.  Somebody needs to write a styleguide soon
08:19 -!- oRk-maradatscha [n=Maradats@] has joined #go-nuts
08:19 < psankar> anybody aware of any release tarballs for go ? or we should
just take things from mercurial ?
08:20 < scriptdevil> psankar: Checkout from mercurial
08:20 <+rsc9> psankar: there are no release tarballs - things are moving too
fast - better to use mercurial
08:20 -!- auntieNeo [n=rewt@97-121-46-26.bois.qwest.net] has left #go-nuts []
08:20 < eday> scriptdevil: it's only to separate statements, if you only
have one statement in a block, not needed
08:21 < pmv> yeah like perl
08:21 < Tronic> This was advertized as something that C++ programmers might
be interested on.
08:21 < Tronic> So far I haven't been happy.
08:21 < scriptdevil> eday: Actually I find it kinda stinging to read some
lines with and some lines without ;.
08:21 < psankar> rsc9, scriptdevil, oh okay I wanted to package for openSUSE
so a release version will be ebtter.  may be i will stick with the vcs revision
number as the identifier
08:21 < vsmatck> Tronic: :)
08:21 <+rsc9> there are release names besides "release"
08:21 < Tronic> Garbage collection, no operator overloading, no implicit
type conversions, ...  So, another Java?
08:21 <+rsc9> cat $GOROOT/.hgtags
08:21 <+rsc9> to see them
08:22 < Tronic> Maybe with nicer syntax...
08:22 < pmv> Tronic, heh I get the impression that it should have said,
"instead of C++, here's how we might have done things better"
08:22 < vsmatck> It seems like implicit conversions is a feature you don't
08:22 < pmv> it's not a smooth move from C++
08:22 < Tronic> Anyway, trying to watch the presentation, but Youtube is
having trouble streaming it to me.
08:22 <+rsc9> Tronic: I've done primarily C++ for the last few years and I'm
interested.  ;-)
08:22 -!- blasdelf [n=fred@c-76-104-181-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined
08:22 < dw> about the best thing i've seen thus far is codifying terse
identifiers composed of their parent module name into the language style :)
08:22 < Tronic> So I'm letting it get some buffer while I'm complaining here
08:22 <+rsc9> Also it compiles to machine code, not JVM
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08:23 < pmv> it's not another java, it's meant to be a systems lang
08:23 < Tronic> rsc9: I'm definitely interested too.
08:23 < ideamonk> I'm gonna build it from source now and lookout for speed
that is shown in youtube video
08:23 < pmv> and it's definitely not as verbose as java
08:23 < pmv> in fact it feels like a scripting lang
08:23 < vsmatck> I guess I'd be more inclined to like this language than
most C++ programmers.  I do high performance network programming in C++.
08:23 < pmv> yeah, the current libraries are impressive
08:24 < joeyadams> public private static void abstract final Main(const
MutableIterator<MutableArray<String> > args) {...}
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08:24 < bovv> I am trying to build it right now, but I get an error...  it
wants something called "queitgcc"...  doesn't find it and terminates.
08:24 < bovv> terminates => stops the build.
08:24 < vsmatck> The one-thread-per-connection way of doing networking is
much more strait forward than something like a a proactor.
08:25 < eday> bovv: make sure $GOBIN is in your $PATH
08:25 < ideamonk> bovv, for me the mercurial clone is taking too much time
08:25 < Morphius> bovv: Try setting $GOBIN and then mkdir'ing that
08:25 < bovv> thanks.
08:25 < vsmatck> You just can't do it in C++ because you're using real
threads and you can't have a few thousand of them running.
08:25 < Morphius> bovv: And ass eday said; make sure it's in your $PATH
08:25 < scriptdevil> ideamonk: Well, it is not too big
08:25 < joeyadams> bovv-> Did you run the ./all.bash ?
08:25 < joeyadams> oh, nvm
08:25 < joeyadams> I'm looking at getting the CPU count still.  glibc
targeting Linux, for sysconf(_SC_NPROCESSORS_ONLN), ends up looking at /proc/stat
first, then /proc/cpuinfo . Targeting mach, glibc uses some hurd-specific stuff,
08:26 < itrekkie> Can anyone point me in the direction of a Makefile, or a
"standardish" way to build a project?  I tried looking into using one from the
pkg/ dir, but it doesn't seem to do what I want.
08:26 < chrome> itrekkie: http://codepad.org/IBHDk0eZ <-- works for me
08:26 < ideamonk> scriptdevil, hg -v doesn't show anything more than without
a -v, and suddenly shows a huge list of files...  pretty late in verbosity...  GOt
08:26 < chrome> put source in src, puts objects in obj
08:27 < bovv> thanks....  the path thing fixed it.
08:27 < chrome> oh hang on
08:27 < bovv> (My GOBIN is set to ${HOME}/gobin
08:27 < chrome> http://codepad.org/ZDbrgNuW
08:27 < chrome> fixed
08:27 < ap0th_> what is this all about?  ---> http://pastebin.com/mc9cc8e
08:27 < itrekkie> chrome: thank you for that
08:27 < scriptdevil> bovv: Hmmm.  Did you mkdir it?  Also, is it in your
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08:28 < eday> vsmatck: I'm curious about that as well, 10k+ active conns in
the Go scheduler...
08:28 < bovv> Yes...  my initialization looks like this:
08:28 < chrome> there needs to be more example programs
08:29 < chrome> that are not showcases for the cool stuff, just examples of
ordinary stuff
08:29 < bovv> [ ! -d "${GOBIN}" ] && mkdir -p "${GOBIN}"
08:29 < mjard> hasn't been public very long
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08:30 < bovv> SO, while I wait for my build to finish...
08:31 < bovv> ...  what problem does this language seek to solve?
08:31 < scriptdevil> bovv: Check the faqs.
08:31 < sejo> why does go have a dep on ed?
08:31 < eday> chrome: look at the tests in src/pkg's, unit tests are usually
good examples
08:31 < pmv> haha really
08:31 < scriptdevil> sejo: It is a build dep
08:32 < pmv> why
08:32 < chrome> eday: yeah, Im just stuck on something more fundamental than
that :P
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08:33 < sejo> scriptdevil: yes I noticed, but why?
08:33 < antarus> sejo: because someone wrote some of the unittests using ed?
08:34 <+rsc9> sejo: some scripts use it to build things
08:34 < sejo> antarus: I do hope not!
08:34 <+rsc9> ed is the standard editor
08:35 < blasdelf> and ed was written by the project authors 40 years ago
08:35 < antarus> blasdelf: details :)
08:35 < chrome> for example, in all the code I've seen, you can do something
like "l, err := Listen(network, addr);" and not define l
08:35 < ment> go sure has a big runtime
08:35 < chrome> and that obviously works, but if I try to do it, it whinges
at me
08:36 < mjard> ment: smaller than c++'s
08:36 < chrome> how do I define a net.TCPAddr for example?  How do I then
get it to resolve an address?
08:36 < chrome> var address *net.TCPAddr = new(net.TCPAddr);
08:36 < chrome> ?
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08:38 < blasdelf> Anyone else gotten this while compiling go?  "gotest:
error: no tests matching Test([^a-z].*)?  in _test/archive/tar.a"
08:38 < uriel> chrome: see Dial
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08:38 < chrome> uriel: who is Dial?
08:39 < uriel> chrome: Dial is a function call
08:39 <+rsc9> blasdelf: hg pull; hg update release; try again
08:39 <+rsc9> fixed earlier this evening
08:39 -!- kampasky [i=pasky@nikam-dmz.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #go-nuts
08:39 < chrome> yes but I need a TCPAddr to listen to a socket
08:39 < blasdelf> rsc9: that's funny, I just cloned it minutes ago
08:39 <+rsc9> blasdelf: hmm, that's no good
08:40 <+rsc9> let me know if it fixes your problem.  if not, what does hg
log -l 1 -q print?
08:40 <+rsc9> chrome: net.Listen
08:40 < dw> if a type requires a 'constructor', using the New<Type>
idiom, is it possible to hide the underlying type so an instance of it can't be
created in the 'unconstructed' state?
08:40 < eydaimon> I keep getting errors during testing now.  anyone else
experiencing this?
08:40 <+rsc9> chrome: run this: godoc net Listen
08:40 < chrome> rsc9: yeah, I see that, but it needs a TCPAddr to be
constructed and I don't see how to do that
08:40 <+rsc9> not for net.Listen
08:40 <+rsc9> net.Listen takes a string
08:41 <+rsc9> eydaimon: what is the error?
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timed out)]
08:41 < eydaimon> rsc9: give me a sec, I started over
08:41 < mjard> godoc is awesome
08:41 < Tronic> Nice syntax for what is auto foo = ...  in C++0x.
08:41 < chrome> ah I was looking at TCPListener.  So I should never use
08:41 < uriel> 08:39 < chrome> yes but I need a TCPAddr to listen to a
08:41 < uriel> no you don't
08:42 < uriel> (YAY!  /me cries with more joy)
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08:42 < eydaimon> rsc9: gopack grc _test/bytes.a _gotest_.8
08:42 < eydaimon> PASS
08:42 < eydaimon> ??none??: cannot open file: /???/_xtest_.8
08:42 < eydaimon> cd compress/flate && make test
08:42 < joeyadams> Does go have something similar to fgets?
08:42 < joeyadams> (read a single line at a time)
08:42 <+rsc9> joeyadams: godoc bufio ReadLine
08:43 < blasdelf> rsc9: Still getting the same error, I'm at
08:44 < joeyadams> hmm, it's not here: http://golang.org/pkg/bufio/#tmp_57
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08:46 < joeyadams> Hmm, I guess ReadString would work
08:46 <+rsc9> sorry i forgot the name
08:46 -!- itrekkie [n=itrekkie@ip72-200-111-233.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts
08:46 <+rsc9> ReadBytes or ReadString
08:46 <+rsc9> depending on what you want
08:47 < joeyadams> Do I need to use buffered IO for that?
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08:49 < mjard> rsc9: what do I have to do to get a gordon t-shirt?
08:49 <+rsc9> mjard: i don't know, sorry.
08:49 < eydaimon> rsc9: I guess something must be wrong with my environment.
08:49 -!- iarwain [n=iarwain@ec2-79-125-6-47.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has
joined #go-nuts
08:49 < mjard> :(
08:49 -!- millenomi [n=millenom@93-35-148-23.ip55.fastwebnet.it] has joined
08:49 < chrome> arr, I get it.
08:50 <+rsc9> joeyadams: r := bufio.NewReader(os.Stdin); s, err :=
08:50 <+rsc9> etc
08:51 -!- jbauer [n=jbauer@adsl-99-176-8-19.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined
08:52 < teedex> is there an emacs mode for go yet ?
08:52 < chrome> whats the "correct" way to convert some bytes to a string
08:52 < scriptdevil> teedex: Yes
08:52 < scriptdevil> It is in misc
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08:52 < teedex> misc where ?
08:52 < scriptdevil> teedex: In the hg checkout
08:52 < dw> rsc9: the more I see of go the more it reminds me of D in many
places.  was D an influence at all?
08:52 < teedex> super thanks scriptdevil
08:52 < dw> array slices, built in gc, same functional goals, closures, ..
08:53 < dw> and very similar syntax sometimes
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08:53 <+rsc9> dw: D was not an influence.
08:53 <+rsc9> chrome: string(bytes)
08:54 < ScriptDevil> dw: Array slices and functional stuff are there even in
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08:54 < dw> ScriptDevil: python slices are copying, whereas D and go both
return references to the original array
08:54 < mycroftiv> go installed and setup and builds nicely, any additional
places to find go programs yet in addition to doc/progs from the distribution?
08:54 < manveru> ScriptDevil: heya
08:54 < dw> ScriptDevil: but yes, fair enough i guess
08:55 < ScriptDevil> scoopr:hey :)
08:55 < ScriptDevil> manveru: Hey
08:55 < scoopr> hey
08:55 < ScriptDevil> scoopr: Sorry.  I meant manveru.
08:55 < scoopr> k
08:55 < manveru> lol
08:55 < ScriptDevil> Anyway.  A Hey doesn't hurt ;)
08:55 < manveru> oi scoopr :)
08:55 < scoopr> easily mistaken =)
08:55 < bovv> I'm a little bit concerned about the naming conventions used
by Go. For example, reading the FAQ, they use "gc" (go compiler)which I confused
with "gcc" for a while until they explicitly referred to "gcc".
08:55 < scoopr> howdy manveru =)
08:55 < joeyadams> ugh:
08:55 < joeyadams> file, err := os.Open("/proc/stat", 0, 0);
08:55 < joeyadams> readstring.go:9: err declared and not used
08:56 < joeyadams> file := os.Open("/proc/stat", 0, 0);
08:56 < manveru> ScriptDevil: wanna improve on the PKGBUILD?
08:56 < joeyadams> readstring.go:9: multiple-value os.Open() in single-value
08:56 < bovv> And "Go Programming Language" as an acronym is "GPL"...  it's
quite confusing.  T
08:56 < ScriptDevil> manveru: Nope.  Mine was similar.  Kinda more primitive
08:56 < KirkMcDonald> joeyadams: file, _ := os.Open("/proc/stat", 0, 0);
08:56 < ScriptDevil> manveru: I will follow it though.  And tell you of any
08:56 < joeyadams> What does _ do?  Is it a dummy?
08:56 < KirkMcDonald> joeyadams: Should be.
08:56 < manveru> ScriptDevil: thanks
08:56 < manveru> i found it failed on my notebook at first
08:57 < KirkMcDonald> Anyone know how I can get at argv[0]?
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08:58 < KirkMcDonald> Ah, os.Args appears to be a thing.
08:58 < joeyadams> os.Args(0)
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08:58 < joeyadams> err, os.Args[0]
08:58 < ScriptDevil> manveru: But yeah.  ed is a makedepends
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08:59 < manveru> ok
08:59 < manveru> any better place for the notice about env?
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09:00 < ScriptDevil> manveru: post_install()?
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09:00 < KirkMcDonald> D feature that I miss: nesting /+ +/ comments.
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09:00 <+rsc9> joeyadams: import "log" at the top
09:01 <+rsc9> then f, err := os.Open(whatever); if err != nil {
log.Exit(err); }
09:02 < chrome> well, my program listens on a socket and says hello when I
telnet to it :D
09:02 < chrome> thats, a lot less work than in C.
09:02 < KirkMcDonald> I'm writing a stupid wrapper around the compiler and
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09:03 <+rsc9> KirkMcDonald: http://pastebin.com/m65145fcb
09:03 < chrome> someone needs to write a pastebin that knows go.
09:03 < KirkMcDonald> rsc9: Yes, but I'm writing it in Go. :-)
09:03 < ScriptDevil> manveru: Well.  You also need to add it to PATH.  Do so
in /etc/profiles.d
09:03 <+rsc9> cool!
09:04 < bovv> chrome: congrads.  :-)
09:04 < KirkMcDonald> chrome: This would actually be very easy.
09:04 < KirkMcDonald> chrome: Write a Go lexer for Pygments.
09:04 < KirkMcDonald> chrome: Then paste.pocoo.org can know it.
09:04 < Innominate> if anyone has missed it, the go distribution includes
syntax highlighting for a few editors
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09:04 < Capso> rsc9: does go run on linuxemu in Plan 9 yet?  ;)
09:04 < eydaimon> rsc9: I'm trying to make a macport for go.  The only
difference I can discern from the build error I'm getting, and an enviornment
where it's working, is directory depth
09:04 <+rsc9> capso: i don't know but i doubt it
09:05 < chrome> KirkMcDonald: where is the fun in that?  Write a paste
server in go!  :D
09:05 <+rsc9> eydaimon: what is the error?
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09:06 < chrome> go/parser, could be the way to do it, hmm
09:06 -!- parren [n=peo@84-74-3-137.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #go-nuts
09:06 < bovv> I can't get a clean build out of it.  :-(
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09:07 < eydaimon> rsc9: are you using a mac?
09:07 -!- mitchellh [n=mitchell@c-71-231-140-22.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined
09:07 <+rsc9> eydaimon: sure
09:08 < eydaimon> rsc9: if you got macports, I can just send you the
Portfile instead
09:08 -!- kaigan|work
[n=kaigan@c-8290e255.1411-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined
09:08 <+rsc9> eydaimon: no thanks, i don't have macports.
09:08 <+rsc9> what is the error?
09:10 < eydaimon> [00:43]*eydaimon> rsc9: gopack grc _test/bytes.a
09:10 < eydaimon> [00:43]*eydaimon> PASS
09:10 < eydaimon> [00:43]*eydaimon> ??none??: cannot open file:
09:10 < eydaimon> [00:43]*eydaimon> cd compress/flate && make test
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09:10 <+rsc9> does it really say /???/ with three question marks
09:10 <+rsc9> ?
09:10 -!- jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has quit ["Ciao"]
09:10 < Hekos> the build tests dont work for $HOME/.go
09:10 < RichiH> do you guys intend to package for debian and/or is someone
in here planning to>?
09:10 < RichiH> s/>//
09:12 < eydaimon> rsc9: yes, that's a copy paste
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(Connection timed out)]
09:12 <+rsc9> richih: there is no intended packaging right now.  things are
still moving too fast
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09:13 < Capso> RichiH: But if you do make a package, please make one for
Sarge also
09:13 < KirkMcDonald> Actually, a Pygments lexer would be a good idea for a
number of reasons.
09:14 < chrome> Conn.Read() thinks the Conn is EOF even though it's not
09:14 < joeyadams> how do I construct a loop like this?
09:14 < KirkMcDonald> It would also easily permit syntax highlighting in
09:14 < joeyadams> for i:=0; (s, err := r.ReadString('\n')).err != nil; i++
09:14 <+rsc9> eydaimon: if you want to debug it is running $GOBIN/gotest
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09:16 < eydaimon> rsc9: http://pastie.org/693384
09:16 < chrome> Conn.Read() should block, right?
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09:17 < tf> hi, just looking at RangeClause for maps, are maps traversed
from left to right (i.e.  are they implemented as red-black trees)?  Just curious
on how to do things like lower_bound, equal_range (to get a slice?), upper_found,
find etc
09:17 -!- tf is now known as flea__
09:17 <+rsc9> maps are traversed in an unspecified order
09:17 <+rsc9> they are not ordered
09:17 <+rsc9> Conn.Read blocks
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09:18 < eydaimon> rsc9: http://pastie.org/693386
09:18 -!- chris2 [n=chris@nash.fs.lmu.de] has joined #go-nuts
09:18 < KirkMcDonald> rsc9: They're some sort of hash table, I assume?
09:19 < chrome> rsc9: can you tell me what I am doing wrong here?
09:19 <+rsc9> KirkMcDonald: yes
09:19 -!- category [n=category@robothouse.vm.bytemark.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts
09:19 < oRk-maradatscha> rsc9 is like a Teaching Assistant for an
introduction into go right now ...  give him a break
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computer has gone to sleep"]
09:19 < chrome> oRk-maradatscha: I'm sure he's capable of defending
09:19 < eydaimon> rsc9: anyway, bed time.
09:19 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+o rsc9] by ChanServ
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09:21 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #go-nuts to: Go: http://golang.org | Bug
tracker: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/list |
http://code.google.com/p/go/wiki/CommonProblems | Please use a pastebin (like
pastebin.com) and include all context when reporting errors
09:21 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-o rsc9] by ChanServ
09:21 < sykopomp> does Go implement channels the same way plan9 does?
(using a global lock on all channel/select operations), or does its implementation
actually split locking/signaling in such a way that the global lock is gone?
09:21 <+rsc9> sykopomp: there's a global lock now, though we intend that to
09:22 < sykopomp> rsc9: any thoughts on the approach you might take?
09:22 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #go-nuts
09:22 <+rsc9> sykopomp: haven't thought much
09:22 < sykopomp> I managed to get rid of the global lock for channel
operations, but now I'm stuck with how to integrate it all with select :\
09:23 <+rsc9> cool
09:23 < garbeam> rsc9: glad about this lang, do you have any pointer for C
bindings to go, I just tried to grep through the docs
09:23 <+rsc9> sykopomp: send me mail with details
09:23 * parren thinks codereview.py and pbranch could work well together
09:23 <+rsc9> or send to golang-nuts@googlegroups.com
09:23 <+rsc9> garbeam: no c bindings yet
09:23 <+rsc9> there is a basic ffi demo in misc/cgo
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09:23 < garbeam> rsc9: any help on C bindings appreciated or nearly there?
09:23 < sykopomp> rsc9: ehh, this is for a library for a different language.
I just saw a glimmer of hope since everyone seems to be stumped about that lock
09:23 <+rsc9> eydaimon: i am perplexed.  file a bug in the bug tracker and
include the name of the directory
09:24 -!- mizai [n=mizai@rhou-164-107-213-187.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined
09:24 <+rsc9> chrome: you said what are you doing wrong but i see a program
and no errors?
09:24 <+rsc9> tell me what is broken
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09:24 < KirkMcDonald> I am finding the flag package to be fairly limiting.
09:25 <+rsc9> chrome: var b []byte
09:25 -!- ap0th_ [n=chatzill@c-98-212-1-27.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
09:25 <+rsc9> declares a nil []byte with length 0
09:25 <+rsc9> you want
09:25 <+rsc9> b := make([]byte, 1000)
09:25 <+rsc9> garbeam: look at misc/cgo.
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09:26 <+rsc9> sykopomp: still, send an explanation to golang-nuts.  it'll be
good to have.
09:26 < chrome> rsc9: ah, thanks, yeah, giving it an empty buffer would make
it not be able to Read() :)
09:26 * rsc9 is falling asleep; time for bed
09:26 < sykopomp> rsc9: eh, alright >_>
09:26 <+rsc9> good night everyone.  good luck
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09:26 < chrome> night, thanks for the pointers
09:26 -!- quietdev [n=quietdev@unaffiliated/quietdev] has joined #go-nuts
09:26 < jandem> is it right that when i modify the type name, i need to
modify the "receiver" type in all methods?  or am i overlooking something?
09:26 < doublec> sykopomp, what's the other language?
09:27 < sykopomp> doublec: common lisp
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09:27 < sykopomp> there's two libraries that implement channels using the
global lock, basically taking the algorithm from plan9.  I gave per-channel locks
a shot.
09:27 < manveru> ScriptDevil: k, new PKGBUILD
09:29 < jandem> are there already alternative implementations of Go? like
for the JVM/CLR/LLVM
09:29 < cbus> manveru, maintainer of community/golang?  :)
09:29 -!- octoploid [n=octoploi@77-23-127-119-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined
09:29 < ScriptDevil> cbus: aur/golang
09:29 -!- kridian [n=kridian@kridian.com] has joined #go-nuts
09:29 < manveru> cbus: i'm not a dev
09:30 < ScriptDevil> manveru: Well.  I am writing one myself.  Will see
yours :)
09:30 < cbus> was just gonna mention that the thingie whines on md5sums :)
09:30 < manveru> oh?
09:30 -!- doohan [n=doohan@client-82-26-73-171.bmly.adsl.virginmedia.com] has
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09:30 < manveru> ah
09:30 < cbus> ==> Validating source files with md5sums...  go.install ...
09:30 < cbus> ==> ERROR: One or more files did not pass the validity
09:30 < cbus> Error: Makepkg was unable to build go-lang-hg package.
09:30 < cbus> (tried like a minute ago)
09:30 < manveru> damn, i wish there was a better way to do `makepkg -Rfi`
09:30 < ScriptDevil> cbus: Well.  There is no md5sum
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Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!"]
09:31 < cbus> or hmm, that was go-lang-hg
09:31 < cbus> doh, sorry
09:31 < ScriptDevil> cbus: Oh. The new one
09:31 < ScriptDevil> manveru: Can I PM you?
09:31 < manveru> ok, updated
09:31 < manveru> sure
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09:35 < cbus> manveru, seems to be compiling, I'll get back to you in a year
or two when my slow laptop gets done ;)
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09:37 < vegai> interfaces look quite a bit like haskell typeclasses.  Which
is a good thing
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09:38 < Innominate> hm with multiple returns is there a way to ignore one
value while getting the other?
09:38 -!- keishi_ is now known as keishi
09:38 < KirkMcDonald> Innominate: foo, _ = whatever()
09:38 < Innominate> thanks
09:38 < rog> vegai: yeah.  they're what objective c should've done years ago
with its prototypes
09:39 < KirkMcDonald> I think I need to write a new command-line option
parsing library.
09:39 < KirkMcDonald> "flag" just isn't doing it for me.
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09:41 < chrome> KirkMcDonald: have it able to generate the usage info
09:41 < KirkMcDonald> "flag" can sort of do that.
09:42 < chrome> its kinda ugly if so
09:42 < KirkMcDonald> But something akin to Python's optparse or the newer
argparse would be great.
09:42 < chrome> ah, PrintDefaults
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09:43 < KirkMcDonald> And I wrote one of these for D some time ago.
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09:43 < chmj> issue 9
09:43 < chmj> hahahahaahah a
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09:44 < Innominate> ahaha
09:44 < chrome> oops
09:45 < Moe> haha
09:45 < chmj> oh well
09:45 < chmj> goolang it is
09:45 < chmj> or golang
09:45 < Moe> Or just goo
09:45 < Moe> I'd love me some goo
09:45 < KirkMcDonald> Well, this project will have to wait.
09:46 < chmj> the guy won't go down without a fight, even if google decides
to play bully
09:46 < Moe> Would make for hilarious geek conferences I guess
09:46 < doublec> goo is already taken for a lisp dialect
09:46 < chmj> lawl
09:46 < Innominate> not in wikipedia doesn't exist
09:46 < chmj> really?
09:46 < chmj> damn
09:46 < Moe> pff, lisp
09:46 < chrome> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=998367
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09:47 < KirkMcDonald> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(programming_language)
09:47 < KirkMcDonald> Therefore, the other one doesn't exist.
09:47 < KirkMcDonald> Clearly.
09:47 < octoploid> What does "panic PC=xxx
09:47 < Moe> Clearly
09:47 < octoploid> " mean?
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09:51 < gointrigue> So I take it that go is not available on winblows :(
09:51 < chrome> renaming the "go" package might suck
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09:52 < chrome> gointrigue: no, and cygwin wont work with it either.
virtualbox yourself a linux install
09:52 < gointrigue> blast it all.
09:52 < gointrigue> I'd have linux on my desktop if my soundcard had full
support :(
09:52 < Moe> gointrigue: Yeah, go get a "real" operating system ..  Windows
is where the kids go to play
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09:53 < Innominate> so this guy has a programming language which exists only
in his self published book
09:53 * Moe winks
09:53 < gointrigue> Maybe so, Moe.
09:53 * Moe likes Innominate drift
09:53 < gointrigue> But I didn't come here for OS wars :P
09:54 < Moe> Me neither ..  I was merely hangin' there for a joke
09:54 < Moe> To each their own ..  and if that means using Windows
09:54 < gointrigue> I am mainly writing a windows app, but think that I
might like to use Go as my server.
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09:55 < gointrigue> Now the fun of getting C# to talk to Go via networking.
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09:56 < Moe> gointrigue: What's your soundcard btw?
09:56 < gointrigue> x-fi platinum
09:56 < gointrigue> fatality
09:56 < Moe> Ah
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09:56 < Moe> The major culprit
09:56 < vegai> goroutines currently take quite a lot of memory.  Is that
bound to change?
09:56 < gointrigue> Indeed.
09:56 < chid> lol
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09:57 < vegai> or was there something memoryintensive in the chaining
example in the googletalk; chaining a message through 500000 goroutines took about
2.5GB of mem
09:57 < gointrigue> But I absolutely love the x-fi, but even with working
alsa drivers I would only have about 20% of the power of the device.
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09:58 < gointrigue> No CMSS3D, crystalizer, dolby/dts s-pdif encoding output
09:58 < gointrigue> the main things I use :(
09:58 < gointrigue> I'd just have a generic 5.1 audio card, and that
essentially keeps me away from swapping to linux.
09:59 < doublec> vegai, is that 5Kb per goroutine?
09:59 < Innominate> vegai: The point is that doing something like that in
any other language is a ridiculous proposition to begin with
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09:59 < doublec> vegai, on 64bit?
09:59 < vegai> doublec: on 64bit, yes
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09:59 < vegai> ok, so 5kb per 'thread' isn't that bad, really
09:59 < doublec> yeah that's not too bad
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10:00 < doublec> on factor, 32bit, it was about 1Kb when I last tested
10:00 < doublec> but that was a couple of years ago
10:00 < doublec> so might have grown by now
10:00 < Moe> gointrigue: I'd even say there hardly is any other driver
supporting the features you're using
10:00 < vegai> I'll see how haskell does
10:00 < gointrigue> Exactly.
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10:01 < Moe> gointrigue: I take it you tried using Creative's "open source"
10:01 < gointrigue> Which keeps my desktop under windows.
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10:01 < gointrigue> There really isn't any good working driver for the x-fi
family of cards for linux.
10:01 < chrome> ooh!  i got go to panic :D
10:01 < gointrigue> Some maybe just get basic functionality, putting sound
to the channels
10:01 < chrome> runtime exceptions look fun.
10:02 < gointrigue> but really ignoring a good majority portion of the
hardware's capability.
10:02 -!- vongodric [n=albeva@79-74-159-4.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined
10:02 < gointrigue> I use these functions pretting much every day.
10:02 < vongodric> hi
10:02 < vongodric> is there go for windows ?
10:03 < gointrigue> Hehe, I just came here for that, and the answer was no,
10:03 < gointrigue> Unfortunately.
10:03 < brianski1> vmware'
10:03 -!- QwertyM [n=harsh@unaffiliated/qwertym] has left #go-nuts ["Konversation
10:03 < blasdelf> gointrigue: all of those X-fi features you love are
implemented in the driver
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10:03 < chrome> not yet
10:03 < vongodric> k thanks
10:03 < mizai> anyone know how to call C code from Go?
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10:03 < chrome> look in misc/cgo
10:03 < mizai> thanks
10:04 < gointrigue> Is that so, blasdelf?  For linux?  Also is it working,
is there any UI for management?
10:04 < Moe> As far as I know it provides all the facilities of the regular
ALSA interface
10:04 < Moe> *over
10:04 < Moe> So ..  any good mixer will do
10:04 < blasdelf> gointrigue: all the special advertised features are
implemented in the windows driver
10:04 < gointrigue> Obviously, blasdelf.
10:05 < gointrigue> The problem was switching to linux I would lose all of
this under that OS.
10:05 < blasdelf> the physical hardware is nothing special, the cheaper
cards are nearly identical
10:05 < gointrigue> True, but I have the front drive packadge
10:05 < gointrigue> and remote
10:06 < blasdelf> and the extra ports are switched on in software?
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10:06 < gointrigue> Blasdelf, you are misunderstanding entirely.
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10:06 < quietdev> hey hope hasn't yet been asked to death but can you update
running code like in erlang?
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10:07 < gointrigue> I was saying that the sound card was hindering my
decision to go with linux full time on the OS, because under linux only basic
functionality is capable, not the bells and whistles I love.
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10:07 < Moe> gointrigue: So, again ..  did you use the XFiDrv package
provided by Creative?  I'm not trying to argue here ..  I'm just curious
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10:07 < gointrigue> I use the drivers provided by creative, yes.
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10:08 < gointrigue> (for windows)
10:08 -!- jnwhiteh [n=jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire] has joined
10:08 < blasdelf> gointrigue: see JACK and friends for the bells and
10:08 < gointrigue> But the linux ones last I checked bardly even operated.
10:08 < gointrigue> blasdelf, just forget it, lol.
10:08 < blasdelf> gointrigue: good plan
10:08 < NoobFukaire> yeah linux sound is a clusterfuck
10:08 < Moe> well, Creative has introduced a new, supposedly open source
drier lately
10:09 < NoobFukaire> it's a shame really
10:09 < gointrigue> I know, and it doesn't work for shit.
10:09 < rog> no discriminated unions, no lists - it seems like go was
written for minimal impedance mismatch with proto buffers
10:09 < Moe> Okay, that's what I wanted to know
10:09 < blasdelf> quietdev: not right now, buy you could import 6g :)
10:10 < blasdelf> rog: and especially no GADTs :/
10:10 < ScriptDevil> Well.  I wonder if someone tried cygwin
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10:11 < blasdelf> ScriptDevil: doubtful that it'd work, they're excersising
the hell out of the syscalls (given that they wrote them!)
10:11 < blasdelf> plus the ELF binary format, and tons of other issues that
cygwin doesn't even try to handle
10:12 < gointrigue> someone should definitely try go for cygwin.
10:12 < gointrigue> I lack the knowledge to do it myself or I would.
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10:14 < leitz> Just found out about Go and have two (for the moment)
questions.  From the install directions there seems to be a decent link to Python,
Does that go into the language itself, or just that the Python install procedures
are what the Go team is used to?
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10:15 < leitz> Also, for those of us relegated to older hardware, a fast
language seems useful.  Is the 386 port developed enough to run on dusty and musty
single core sub-trillion GHz processors with not much ram?
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10:15 < quietdev> thank you blasdelf
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10:16 < blasdelf> leitz: some of the tests use up to 3GB of RAM
10:17 < gointrigue> Seems kind of bloated >.>
10:17 < blasdelf> Just discovered an easter egg:
10:17 < gointrigue> My laptop only has 2 gigs
10:17 < leitz> blasdelf, will the test fail or just run slow?
10:17 < blasdelf> so it'll swap, that's what you have an operating system
for :)
10:17 < impeachgod> hello everyone
10:18 < impeachgod> I get a transaction abort error when I try to check out
Go from the mercurial repo
10:18 < impeachgod> abort: Access is denied
10:18 < leitz> blasdelf, that'll work.  Of course, it reminds me of my 3rd
question.  Go is a "systems programming" language.  Are there any plans to write a
desktop sized OS in it?
10:18 < danderson> impeachgod: are you cloning over http, not https?
10:19 < impeachgod> I tried both
10:19 < impeachgod> same error
10:19 < blasdelf> the server's been getting banged on sometimes
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10:20 < blasdelf> impeachgod: I could pull fine just now
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10:20 < blasdelf> leitz: the Go authors are known to be capable of writing
Operating Systems :)
10:20 < gointrigue> What I want to know, why when seraching for go,
golang.org isn't like the first result lol
10:20 < gointrigue> should be like...  go.google.com
10:20 < gointrigue> or something
10:21 < blasdelf> it's not an official google project
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10:21 < leitz> blasdelf, yeah...Mac X, meet Plan X. ;)
10:21 < gointrigue> ahhh, well..  true
10:21 < blasdelf> leitz: Alan Kay has been working on such a project for
several years on an NSF grant
10:22 < blasdelf> a full OS in 500 nicely typeset pages
10:22 < blasdelf> using as many new programming languages and meta-languages
as necessary
10:23 < impeachgod> blasdelf: Viewpoint Research Institute?
10:23 < blasdelf> they published their TCP implementation, which parses the
RFC ASCII-art as data
10:23 < blasdelf> impeachgod: Bingo
10:24 < impeachgod> that's pretty cool
10:24 < impeachgod> I played around with their packrat parser
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10:31 < ScriptDevil> Ha. Got a good working PKGBUILD for Archlinux.  Will
upload in a minute or 2 for those who are interested.
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10:32 < ScriptDevil> btw.  Is it on shootout.alioth already?  All the tests
seem to be there in test/bench
10:32 < quietdev_> hi is anyone planning on using Go for web or email
development?  let me know, i'd love to have someone to chat with about challenges
and solutions
10:33 < Tronic> Why is there no exception handling?
10:33 < Element14> http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html#exceptions
10:33 < Tronic> Thanks.
10:34 < jnwhiteh> Has anyone played with closing channels much?  I'm trying
to figure out how to cleanly terminate a process network (i.e.  using somethign
like poisons) but I can't seem to make it work right since the zero value gets
sent down teh channel after its been closed.
10:34 < andguent> where does libcgo fit in.  any thoughts?
10:34 < barrynorton> I'm getting gnu/stubs-32.h: No such file or directory
on a brand new Ubuntu install - what am I missing?
10:35 < quietdev_> to what extent will Google commit to dogfooding Go
10:35 < quietdev_> most of the successful commercial languages out now have
arguably gotten more mature because people use them, if Google don't even bother
to use Go large scale, there will be some doubt as to why external users should
use it
10:36 < Element14> barrynorton: not sure about ubuntu but in debian
libc6-dev provides that file
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10:37 < barrynorton> Element14: same on Ubuntu, in my understanding, and
mine is up-to-date
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10:37 < planetcall|work> i just saw Go ...  is it cross platform ?
10:39 < Hekos> im going to use it to solve the aTSP problem for school :3
luck luck blaming me for plagiarism on a 3 day old programming language :D
10:40 < ScriptDevil> planetcall|work: Now that no one else answered...  The
answer imho is "To an extent".  The Windows port isn't ready yet
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10:40 < Element14> barrynorton: maybe your libc6-dev is 64 bit?  (just
10:40 < ScriptDevil> The binaries are not portable
10:40 < andguent> isn't ready?
10:40 < Kniht> barrynorton: worked perfectly for me severaly hours ago
(couple go repo revisions ago possibly?) in ubuntu9.4 (after adding net to NOTEST,
but that's after building, fwiw), if that helps
10:40 < andguent> there is no windows port
10:40 < Kniht> several*
10:40 < andguent> nor is it being worked on
10:41 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo6.150.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined
10:41 < ScriptDevil> andguent: Well.  I meant that.  Misworded it
10:41 < impeachgod> if I can help, I'll port it to Windows
10:41 < impeachgod> any outstanding technical reasons why it isn't?
10:41 < andguent> i am currently in the process to do so
10:41 < impeachgod> ah, ok then
10:41 < andguent> but feel free to do so too
10:41 < andguent> i am by no means a good programmer and may fail
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10:43 < planetcall|work> ok ..  ScriptDevil I went through the FAQ section
and didn't find a compelling reason as how is Go better than C# 4.0 ..  I know it
is an immature comparison but why should I even go for Go with C# in my side
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10:44 < quietdev_> planetcall|work: did you see the 1 hr October video?
10:44 < quietdev_> planetcall|work: how long are your compile times for your
c# 4.0 projects?
10:45 < planetcall|work> hmm ..  let me see the video then
10:45 < planetcall|work> :)
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10:45 < Element14> not tied up with .NET is good enough for me :)
10:45 < quietdev_> Element14: if you don't need .NET then you lost nothing
10:46 < voxadam> I just watched Pike's Go presentation at Google on YouTube.
He mentioned that there was work underway (or maybe scheduled) to replace the
current mark-and-sweep GC with something more advanced.  Specifically, he
mentioned The Recycler from IBM.  IBM claims a maximum pause time of 2.6 ms.  If
this is true what are the chances of Go being suitable for real-time/deterministic
10:46 < Tronic> Is the evaluation order of function arguments specified?
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10:50 < Tronic> Say, if I call foo(file.GetByte(), file.GetByte()), will the
first parameter be the first byte from the file?
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10:50 < Tronic> I've had some nasty issues with this in C++ because the
order is unspecified (GCC evaluates right-to-left).
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10:51 < quietdev_> voxadam: hey what are some software ideas you are
thinking of using a real-time high level language for?
10:52 < ScriptDevil> Tronic: When evaluating the elements of an assignment
or expression, all function calls, method calls and communication operations are
evaluated in lexical left-to-right order.
10:52 < ScriptDevil> Tronic: It is there in the official spec
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10:54 < ScriptDevil> Tronic: Please read the official spec well.  It is well
laid out.  With a good number of sub-headings and short readable sentences
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10:56 < voxadam> quietdev_: My interests are largely hobbies but a garbage
collected language capable of bounded latencies combined with a Linux kernel that
is getting closer and closer to being capable of real-time sounds like fun.  I
love the idea of being able to create a motion control loop in a POSIXish OS with
a GC language.
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10:58 < vhold> I wonder what Google's take on the fact the linux kernel has
been getting 2% slower each release is..
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10:59 < vhold> We have not been able to upgrade our kernels lately because
it pushes our latencies too high to do so..  I'm not sure if it's for the same
reasons linus describes..
11:00 < voxadam> vhold: According to an article from the Kernel Summit
they're still using 2.6.18.
11:00 < vhold> it seems like the quest for ultimate desktop performance may
have been forsaking linux in the one place it's truly a success
11:00 < voxadam> http://lwn.net/Articles/357658/
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11:01 < Tronic> ScriptDevil: Seems very readable.
11:01 < vhold> Ah, that's interesting, thanks..  we're still on 2.6.20
11:01 < Tronic> vhold: Latencies and bandwidth (performance) are different
11:02 < Tronic> Different distributions have vastly different latencies.
E.g.  Ubuntu generic kernel peaks 50-100 ms latency spikes all the time, while
many other distributions (and Ubuntu rt kernel) can keep latencies under a few
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11:02 < xMDKx> yo
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11:03 < vhold> for us they are related, we have to push a lot of data under
a certain time frame
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11:12 < ScriptDevil> 261?  Well.  The count is increasing.  4 hours back, we
were wondering if we will hit 200 today.
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11:13 < quietdev_> vhold: hey what are you guys working on?  ^^
11:13 * robot12 compiled first programm on Go :)
11:14 < dark_fader> Quick question for anyone here...  Is it possible to use
Go with Apache to serve web pages yet?
11:14 < robot12> but ....  GOARCH ...  GOROOT ...
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11:15 < robot12> dark_fader, U can write http server on Go :)
11:15 < robot12> it will be better :)
11:15 * vegai thinks about writing a Go server and client on Go
11:15 < robot12> to Go somewhere :)
11:15 < alt^255> greetings.
11:15 < ScriptDevil> I have a feeling that the Go jokes are already getting
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11:16 < dark_fader> I could.
11:16 < alt^255> ScriptDevil: for the first minutes I was sure I was looking
at a programming language for the game of Go
11:16 < dark_fader> I don't want to go down the route of Django and Rails
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11:17 < ScriptDevil> dark_fader: They are frameworks
11:17 < Innominate> begs the question, would would a go web framework be
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11:18 < inra> any news on a go compiler for windows?
11:18 < ScriptDevil> inra: andguent is working on one.  There is no official
port as of yey
11:18 < ScriptDevil> *yet
11:19 < inra> ok, thanks /waits :)
11:19 < vhold> quietdev: It's a kind of specialized search and ranking
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11:19 < andguent> ScriptDevil: well not really.  i am not a googler or
something.  my spare time is limited.  success is not guaranteed by any means
11:19 < Kniht> ScriptDevil: cliched already, eh?  go f*#$ #@*^
11:19 < quietdev_> dark_fader: hey i bet you can cook up something like
mod_mono, which talks to a daemon that serves out pages written against mono
11:19 < dark_fader> ScriptDevil, they both include their own webserver
11:19 < quietdev_> so a mod_go would written as a c plug-in for Apache
11:20 < quietdev_> that talks to another daemon that services requests
11:20 < ScriptDevil> dark_fader: I saw that.
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11:21 < bruceb3> who in the 'go' team has such a liking of plan9 ?
11:21 < andguent> well...  all of them?
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11:21 < andguent> ken thompson?
11:21 < andguent> russ cox?
11:21 < mizai> rob pike?
11:22 < dark_fader> quietdev_: hmm...  I could research writing an Apache
mod.  I was kinda hoping someone had already done it.
11:22 < quietdev_> you don't have to research, there's a really
straightforward book from O'Reilly on writing something like that
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11:23 < quietdev_> you can you read the sample code for mod_mono and other
language glue-ware like tcl, and other little scripting languages
11:23 < quietdev_> and you'll have it done soon enough :-) no not over a
weekend but soon enough :-)
11:23 < ScriptDevil> bruceb3: Well.  It is a perfect fit :D The networking
11:23 < madac> An Apache module would be a nice quick-start, but it would
ultimately get in the way of go's massively concurrent process model.
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11:24 < bruceb3> better question, who is in the 'go' team.  Sounds like
plan9 === go team
11:24 < quietdev_> madac: then you need to do many to many, a mod_go running
on a farm of apaches capable of speaking to a farm of Go app servers
11:24 < quietdev_> then it will shine
11:25 < quietdev_> but i won't argue against a go http or something else as
11:26 < madac> Agreed, but go shouldn't need a farm till you get above, say,
100k concurrent requests.
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11:27 < mpl> bruceb3: there are a lot of ppl working more or less working
on/with plan 9 who are of course not at google's/in the go team.
11:27 < quietdev_> shouldn't, should, it all depends on the application
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11:27 < quietdev_> security needs, tasks, etc, we'll see
11:28 < madac> quietdev_: Certainly, Apache buys you a lot in the meantime.
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virus.  Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the
world of IRC."]
11:28 < Yoavk_> Is GO available for windows?
11:28 < robot12> No
11:28 < Yoavk_> Will it?
11:29 < Yoavk_> Will GO ever be available for windows?
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11:29 < ScriptDevil> Yoavk_: Maybe.
11:29 < robot12> mostly no imho
11:29 < ScriptDevil> I recommend that we have a bot here that you can do a
!windows to
11:29 < ScriptDevil> Ok. Am off now
11:29 < robot12> Go depends on ...  plan9port :)
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11:29 < andguent> robot12: p9p is the least problem
11:29 < andguent> robot12: i solved that within some minutes
11:30 < dark_fader> ta ppl.
11:30 < dark_fader> bai
11:30 < andguent> there are other more problematic ones
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11:30 < Yoavk_> Is there any workaround for running & compiling in windows?
11:30 < robot12> andguent, libs are another problem :)
11:30 < madac> What about Cygwin?
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11:31 < Yoavk_> Has anyone tried that yet?
11:31 < hashbang> My go test program doesn't do anything (
http://pastebin.com/m57b805b7 ); what've I done wrong?
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11:32 < Innominate> hash: When main finishes the program ends and doesn't
care what other goroutines are doing
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11:33 < p3rror> hello when i'm installing go i get FAIL step
11:33 < hashbang> Innominate, figured it might be something like that.  How
do I make main() wait for all the goroutines to finish?  A back channel?
11:33 < p3rror> here the trace http://fpaste.org/QwgF/
11:33 < p3rror> please can you help me with this
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11:34 < mizai> ucrf
11:34 < mizai> acs[pl
11:34 < Innominate> i don't know the best way to do it, but yea i think you
should use channels to wait for them to finish
11:34 < mizai> `
11:34 < mizai> ugh, computer locked up somehow, sorry
11:34 -!- mizai [n=mizai@rhou-164-107-213-187.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit
11:35 < Innominate> select maybe?
11:36 < robot12> hashbang, robot12@darkstar:~/Develop/Go/My/thread$ ./8.out
Hello!!!Endthread A: 0
11:36 < robot12> thread B: 0
11:36 < robot12> thread D: 0
11:37 < hashbang> robot12: I'm testing on a Q6600 quad-core, so maybe my
main() finishes before yours.  :-)
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11:37 < robot12> hashbang, :) Yep[
11:37 < robot12> hashbang, too fast :)
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11:39 < blasdelf> please, for the love of god, nobody write an Apache mod_go
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11:40 < blasdelf> Go already comes with http://golang.org/pkg/http/ -- just
put nginx in front of it
11:40 -!- deafmetal [n=deafmeta@54.76-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined
11:40 < deafmetal> hello?
11:41 < deafmetal> anyone here?
11:41 < npe> yup
11:41 < vegai> quite many, actually
11:41 < blasdelf> I'm sure several people will write event-driven
goroutine-based HTTP servers (think about Comet), especially once the Big Channel
Lock is removed
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11:41 < deafmetal> i have a rather noobie question...
11:42 < deafmetal> I'm getting an error when i try and run all.bash
11:42 < deafmetal> liek so: $GOROOT is not set correctly or not exported
11:42 < npe> deafmetal: did you add GOROOT to your bashrc and export it?
11:42 < deafmetal> GOBIN=/Users/deafmetal/bin
11:42 < deafmetal> GOARCH=386
11:42 < deafmetal> GOROOT=/Users/deafmetal/go
11:42 < deafmetal> GOOS=darwin
11:42 < deafmetal> yes.
11:43 < deafmetal> that's the result of my env } grep
11:43 < Element14> did you explictly export it?
11:43 < npe> bash -c 'echo $GOROOT'
11:43 < npe> see if you're successfully exporting it.
11:43 < deafmetal> ok
11:44 < deafmetal> deafmetal-2:~ deafmetal$ bash -c 'echo $GOROOT'
11:44 < npe> and nothing?
11:44 < deafmetal> no, it gives me the path
11:44 < madac> Put export in front of everything, e.g.:
11:44 < madac> export GOBIN=...
11:44 < alt^255> deafmetal: in the same terminal where you're running
all.bash, do a . ~/.bashrc
11:44 < madac> export GOARCH=...
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11:45 < deafmetal> does it matter that i'm setting these in a .profile
rather than a bashrc
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closed the connection]
11:45 < npe> deafmetal: yes.
11:45 < deafmetal> ahah
11:45 < deafmetal> ok.
11:46 < Element14> deafmetal: supposedly you should set them in
11:46 < Element14> the install script uses bash after all...
11:46 < deafmetal> bash_profile rather than bashrc?
11:46 < npe> profile == first login, bashrc == every shell instantiation
11:46 < deafmetal> ah.
11:46 < deafmetal> ok.
11:46 < deafmetal> let me try that.
11:46 < deafmetal> thanks.
11:47 < alt^255> deafmetal: if not present should be created.
11:48 < blasdelf> OMG, Go ships with a direct port of Spacewar from the PDP1
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11:49 * hashbang isn't getting the 'Multiplexing' part of the tutorial
11:49 < leitz> Any comments on taking an old Unix or Linux book like the 1st
edition of "Linux Application Development" and trying to learn some Go with that?
11:50 < blasdelf> leitz: that wouldn't excercise any of the novel goroutine
11:50 < blasdelf> you might look at stuff for older CSP languages like
Newsqueak and some of the Plan9 stuff
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11:52 < leitz> blasdelf: I'm more thinking of learning how to do stuff,
however small, on my Linux machine.  Maybe then getting into the coolness of Go
once I understand it better.  In this case I'm coming from a sysadmin role, not
really a programmer yet.
11:53 < blasdelf> it's more about trying the kind of toy problems that lend
themselves to CSP
11:53 < vegai> looking at an Inferno book might be interesting too :)
11:53 * vegai has one in the bookshelf...
11:53 < Innominate> leitz: invest in a newer book
11:53 < RayNbow> just curious...  if new is a function in go, then what is
its type signature?
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11:54 < leitz> Recommendations, Innominate?  I have lots of C books that sit
moslty unused.  My hope was to use the online tutorial with the problem set in teh
books to get going and see what I can do.  Then get a newer and more detailed book
when I'm ready.
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11:54 < leitz> Anyone want to buy some old C books?  ;)
11:54 -!- furbage [n=furbage@78-105-127-75.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined
11:55 < vomjom> wow, 269 people?
11:55 < vegai> heh, several shops are selling "Inferno Programming with
Limbo" for £0.50
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11:55 < vegai> "brand new condition" too
11:55 < __gilles> hi
11:55 < leitz> vegai, thanks!  I'll make myself a note and go look.  Right
now I'm fixing to be late for work.  :(
11:56 < alt^255> what about plan9 and inferno, how they relate to Go?
11:56 < Innominate> leitz: Can't hurt to try, but an experimental language
is probably not the best place to start
11:57 < blasdelf> alt^255: written by the exact same authors, espousing many
of the same concepts
11:57 < hnsr> anyone know what I might be doing wrong here?
http://pastie.org/693501 it fails to find quietgcc even though it is in my PATH,
and I can run it from my shell
11:57 < leitz> Innominate, I'm rather slow sometimes, so the language will
mature faster than my programming.  :)
11:57 < hnsr> as far as I can tell all my env vars are set up correctly
11:57 < blasdelf> hnsr: is your PATH exported?
11:57 < alt^255> blasdelf: interesting.  thanks.
11:57 < leitz> Good day all, see you this (EST) afternoon!
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11:58 < hnsr> blasdelf, yeah
11:58 -!- mizai [n=mizai@rhou-164-107-213-187.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined
11:58 < madac> alt^255: Go looks very similar to Limbo, Inferno's
programming language.
11:58 < hnsr> blasdelf, at least, I export it in my .bashrc
11:58 < ikke> --- FAIL: os_test.TestRemoveAll
11:58 < ikke> RemoveAll "_obj/_TestRemoveAll_" succeeded with chmod 0
subdirectory?(extra *os.PathError=lstat _obj/_TestRemoveAll_: no such file or
11:58 < alt^255> I'm just looking for something that can move people away
from C++ into the 90s
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11:59 < blasdelf> ikke: you're running as root, aren't you?
11:59 < ikke> yeah :)
11:59 * blasdelf admonishes ikke
11:59 < ikke> :)
12:00 * ikke will run as user
12:00 < ikke> just found issue 22
12:00 < blasdelf> the tests assume all sorts of awesome things about the
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12:01 < madac> alt^255: I'd say that Go has a very good chance of doing just
that.  It really needs generics, which are on their radar.
12:01 < blasdelf> a bunch of them use *ed*, which K&R wrote 40 years before
starting Go :)
12:01 < nacerix> hi all
12:01 < alt^255> madac: I already like this.
12:01 < blasdelf> madac: It has interfaces
12:02 < blasdelf> It seems that they've avoided GADTs, possibly because they
don't mesh with Protocol Buffers
12:02 < madac> blasdelf: Interfaces and generics are orthogonal concepts.
Yes, they both support polymorphism, but in very different ways.
12:03 < blasdelf> madac: I know, I've used Haskell for 5 years :)
12:03 < nacerix> I need help about this message make: quietgcc : command not
12:04 < nacerix> when trying to install go on my ubuntu box
12:04 < blasdelf> If only Luca Cardelli worked at Google too...
12:04 < hnsr> blasdelf, I fixed it, apparently it was because I had
'~/dev/go' instead of '/home/$USER/dev/go' in my PATH, even though bash itself had
no trobules with it
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12:04 < blasdelf> hnsr: expansion happens in odd places, and only ever in
the shell
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12:05 < hnsr> i shall not count on them again :p
12:05 < Innominate> nacerix: It means you env vars are set wrong
12:05 < Innominate> your
12:06 < nacerix> ah ok, sorry, I think I know where the problem is
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12:07 < deafmetal> yay.  finally it's compiling.  I did have to use
.bash_profile rather than .bashrc.  odd.
12:08 -!- hoffmann [n=ph@tmo-045-7.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #go-nuts
12:08 < nacerix> deafmetal: me too
12:08 -!- lb [n=lb@pd95b8344.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts
12:09 < nacerix> i just forget to include $GOBIN in my PATH
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12:09 < blasdelf> on some platforms .bashrc has to be sourced manually (from
12:09 < mizai> ugh, chromium is wreaking havoc on my system
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12:10 < mizai> oh, it's back now :)
12:11 < hnsr> I just ran into this bug:
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=7 but I already have the revision
that was supposed to have solved that bug, should I file a new one or just reply
to it?
12:11 < deafmetal> blasdelf interesting!
12:11 -!- cloowny [n=cloowny@slo13-1-82-66-195-23.fbx.proxad.net] has joined
12:11 < cloowny> hi there
12:12 -!- grumbel [n=grumbel@i59F56CD7.versanet.de] has joined #go-nuts
12:12 < cloowny> anybody use go with textmate?
12:12 < engla> there is a bundle on the mailing list
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12:13 < blasdelf> wouldn't be surprised if it was in the TM repository
12:13 < cloowny> oh ok i have to check this out
12:13 < hnsr> ok, looks like I did need to set LC_ALL=C
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12:14 < blasdelf> hnsr: unset it
12:15 < blasdelf> I ran into the same thing, Russ Cox will probably have a
patch in tommorrow
12:15 < hnsr> ah ok
12:15 < engla> Two questions: powerpc support?  :-) Can you crash go?
12:16 < blasdelf> engla: A) through gcc; B) Yes, you can dereference
uninitialized pointers
12:16 < npe> anybody build an xcode plugin for the pbfilespec and the
clangspec yet?
12:17 < npe> If not how are people integrating the pbfilespec?
12:17 < npe> http://maxao.free.fr/xcode-plugin-interface/
12:17 < npe> just found this, will start after lunch.
12:17 < hashbang> running server.go from the docs seems to show that
goroutines don't get created in different threads (i.e.  make use of multiple
cores).  Is that correct?
12:19 < npe> hashbang: normal goroutines are part of the same process.
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12:19 < npe> hashbang: I'm don't know enough about the language yet to see
how they deal with ioprocs etc...
12:19 < osmosis> when is android support and app engine support coming?  ;P
12:20 < blasdelf> hashbang: there's presently a Big Channel Lock too
12:20 < hashbang> npe: by adding some fmt.Printf(), I managed to get it to
use 120% CPU, so presumably IO is handled in a different process or thread
12:20 < blasdelf> osmosis: it already supports multiple ARM architectures
12:20 < cloowny> i have problem installing go i have the error "$GOROOT is
not set correctly or not exported" when all.bash
12:20 < engla> I thought you couldn't "make" uninited pointers in Go
12:21 < blasdelf> engla: you can't make one that doesn't cause Go to halt
12:21 < osmosis> blasdelf, guess we just need and SDK
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12:22 < hashbang> blasdelf: so go's (currently) not immediately and
naturally a way of exploiting multi-core CPUs, right?
12:22 < blasdelf> osmosis: well, a library for dealing with JNI crap
12:22 < blasdelf> hashbang: read some of the older literature on CSP
12:23 < osmosis> blasdelf, you mean to call the java system libraries?
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12:23 < blasdelf> osmosis: to get called from and return back into Dalvik
12:23 < deafmetal> cloowny: where did you set the $GOROOT var?
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12:24 < hashbang> blasdelf: I'm aware it's a hard problem, if that's the
point you're making.  I was just wondering if Go was the first potential language
to make things easy(er) for app developers
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12:25 < blasdelf> hashbang: the point is that you already have way more CPU
than you can handle, and CSP is (correctly) aimed more at getting a correct and
clear algorithm than physical parallelism
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12:26 < blasdelf> also, Google doesn't give two shits about single-process
12:26 < hashbang> blasdelf: depends on the problem; emulation, for instance,
doesn't easily scale across multiple cores
12:26 -!- JBeshir [n=namegduf@138-38-226-61.resnet.bath.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts
12:26 < blasdelf> they already need to run on more than one box (by six
orders of magnitude)
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12:27 < hashbang> blasdelf: but for the common case, sure; I routinely write
shell scripts to solve the problems I typically need to solve for heavens' sake!
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12:28 < Diablo-D3> you've got to be kidding me
12:28 < Diablo-D3> 283 people?
12:28 < blasdelf> if you're writing your program correctly decomposed into
CSPs, it's no big deal to start multiple processes
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12:29 < gursikh> hi has anyone found any good go tutorials?
12:29 < mycroftiv> have you looked at the 3 day course pdfs?
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timed out)]
12:30 < blasdelf> go is presently aimed at polyglots
12:30 < gursikh> no, are they on http://golang.org/?
12:30 < nc> mycroftiv: could you link me to those 3day course pdfs ?
12:30 < gursikh> i'll find them.  thanks for the tip.
12:31 < mycroftiv> http://golang.org/doc/GoCourseDay1.pdf
http://golang.org/doc/GoCourseDay2.pdf and similar for #3
12:31 < mycroftiv> linked from the http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html
page which is also relevant of course
12:31 < nc> mycroftiv: thank you
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12:32 < gursikh> is it possible to write Go apps for app.engine?
12:32 < blasdelf> gursikh: nope
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12:33 < blasdelf> unless you want to write a mips compiler, and run that on
the JVM :/
12:33 < nc> :(
12:33 < Diablo-D3> yeah
12:33 < Diablo-D3> go will never take off
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route to host)]
12:34 < Diablo-D3> google doesnt seem to wanna write a java bytecode
compiler for it
12:34 < blasdelf> I'm sure they'll get to it eventually, they already have
NaCL support
12:34 < Diablo-D3> salt?
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12:34 < under> Hi. :)
12:34 < Diablo-D3> blasdelf: wtf is salt?
12:34 < blasdelf> so NaCL-saft x86_64 code could run on AppEngine without
12:35 < blasdelf> Google NAtive Client
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12:35 < gursikh> blasdef: wouldn't that defeat the point?
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route to host)]
12:35 < blasdelf> it's a protected x86 sandbox that runs as a browser plugin
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12:37 < blasdelf> gursikh: not at all, they'd release an SDK that compiled
your apps using the NaCL backend
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12:38 -!- watermind [n=watermin@bl8-121-164.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #go-nuts
12:38 < watermind> hi guys, I don't get this example
12:38 < watermind> var a uint64 = 1; is supposed to be the same as a :=
12:39 < blasdelf> yes
12:39 -!- mmu_man [n=revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net] has joined
12:39 < mmu_man> plop
12:40 < watermind> blasdelf: but looking at the lang faq I can't understand
the explanation for what it does...
12:40 -!- nets [n=nets@bzq-79-178-103-16.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #Go-nuts
12:40 < blasdelf> watermind: I think it might be in Effective Go
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12:40 < watermind> oh wait
12:40 < nc> watermind: well by just looking at the example you've pasted, it
seems to me like the := operator is used to define a variable
12:40 < watermind> I think I understand
12:40 < watermind> right..
12:40 < Innominate> watermind: it's hard to describe it better than you did
12:40 < watermind> sorry
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12:41 < watermind> pascal was getting me confused
12:41 < chmj> ruined my chicldhood
12:42 < chmj> childhood
12:42 < blasdelf> := for assignment is the way to go, then you don't have
jackasses putting constants on the left in conditional expressions
12:42 < chmj> I invent words, ffs
12:42 < nets> can i learn this language, before learning C and such?
12:42 < dchest> can json package unmarshal top-level arrays?
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12:43 -!- akent [n=akent@ppp234-52.static.internode.on.net] has quit ["leaving"]
12:43 < dchest> http://pastie.org/693553 -- it doesn't unmarshal []Tweet for
some reason
12:44 < nc> hehe
12:44 < Kniht> blasdelf: amen
12:44 < nc> not suprised someone is already working on a twitter client
12:44 < Innominate> nets: imo it's probably a bad choice for a first
language(whole different argument), but can you?  no real reason why not
12:44 < Kniht> dchest: fwiw, the json spec doesn't allow top-level arrays
12:44 < dchest> twitter client is the new hello world :)
12:45 -!- telemachus [n=telemach@] has joined #go-nuts
12:45 < dchest> Kniht: hm, didn't know this.  so, twitter's json is not json
after all?
12:45 < Kniht> I don't know what twitter's api does
12:45 < mmu_man> hmm how large is the hg depot ?
12:45 < Kniht> I know the javascript *object* notation spec requires an
object at the top level
12:45 < telemachus> so here's a funny side-effect: do we think that the
downage of the Mercurial OSX binaries is because of go?
12:46 < dchest> example: http://twitter.com/statuses/public_timeline.json
(attn: will download json file)
12:46 < Kniht> dchest: http://json.org/
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12:47 < nets> Innominate, i know little bit of C, little bit of C++ ,
assembler Vhdl and other languages but no language in big knowledge
12:47 < nets> i think Go interesting me and i can do it, but its a good idea
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12:48 < binBASH> So Go is a compiled language.
12:48 < nc> is there any chance whatsoever of me building go on openbsd ?
12:48 < telemachus> binBASH: only if you do it right
12:48 < Element14> nets: depends on what you want to learn it for?
12:48 < binBASH> It's not very intressting for webservers I guess
12:48 < LaPingvino> why not?
12:48 < LaPingvino> :P
12:48 < nets> what do you mean.
12:48 < nets> for what.
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12:48 < Innominate> binbash: One of the examples _is_ a webserver
12:49 -!- fhs [n=fhs@pool-72-89-195-252.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit
12:49 < binBASH> Innominate: Yes I've seen it.
12:49 -!- stelt [n=chatzill@ip565b0469.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
12:49 < binBASH> I mean to run Go on a webserver something like Tomcat would
be needed
12:49 < nc> anyone?
12:50 < binBASH> so Go programs get autocompiled etc.
12:50 < Element14> nets: some possible answers: for fun, for enhancing your
CV, for learning new things about programming, for looking at potential solutions
to existing technological problems, etc..
12:50 < nets> all you say :)
12:50 < nets> it true.
12:50 < blasdelf> binBASH: god no, you take your Tomcat back to the ASF
12:50 < Element14> I guess on the CV point go is not a good choice yet :)
12:51 < nets> :)
12:51 < Element14> doubtful whether any potential employers know a 3 day old
12:51 < Innominate> It couldn't hurt
12:51 < m0rra> for a cv you will send out tomorrow?
12:51 < m0rra> probably yes
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12:51 < dchest> avoiding top-level arrays in json, still can't unmarshal :(
12:51 -!- kichik|work [n=kichik_w@bzq-84-108-238-52.cablep.bezeqint.net] has
joined #go-nuts
12:51 < dchest> sure, I'm doing something wrong, but what?  :)
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12:52 < binBASH> blasdelf: Sorry, did you read right?  ;-) I said not to use
Tomcat I said something Tomcat alike would be needed.
12:52 -!- jb55 [n=jb55@bas11-kitchener06-1088890944.dsl.bell.ca] has joined
12:52 < binBASH> I don't want to give developers access to compilers at all
12:52 < Element14> huh?
12:53 < binBASH> they should place their codes on a webserver and it should
do the work.
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error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
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12:54 < Element14> writing a script to auto compile as files are uploaded
doesn't seem like too hard to me...  (or am i missing anything?)
12:54 < blasdelf> binBASH: so use a damn build tool as a post-commit hook,
don't shove it into your webserver
12:54 < Innominate> webserver/compiler
12:55 < blasdelf> whatever Apache httpd or Tomcat or Squid is doing, you
should always do the opposite
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12:55 < temoto> Hello, nuts :)
12:55 < dchest> ah, yeah, it works!  Thanks again, Kniht.  Getting rid of
top-level arrays helped
12:56 < binBASH> blasdelf: I agree on that part ;)
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12:57 < binBASH> I did not read docs detailed yet, but is it possible to
have those Go programs running via eg.  cgi or fastcgi?
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timed out)]
12:57 < Element14> binBASH: why not?
12:57 < Innominate> There is no reason i can see that go couldn't be used
via cgi
12:57 < JBeshir> Go via *FastCGI* could be neat
12:57 < blasdelf> binBASH: Remember, do the opposite of Apache
12:58 < blasdelf> USE HTTP GOD DAMNIT
12:58 < blasdelf> Go ships with an http package, use it
12:58 < binBASH> I know
12:58 < blasdelf> put a reverse proxy like nginx in front of it if it talks
to the outside
12:58 < binBASH> dunno if it's fast though.  Will try to benchmark in near
future *g
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12:59 < binBASH> You know I'm comming from PHP.  I coded myself a webserver
using PHP to run my sites.
12:59 < binBASH> because fastcgi and apache were too slow.
12:59 -!- chid [n=dorl@c122-106-95-175.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined
12:59 < blasdelf> FastCGI is the worst idea ever
12:59 < barrynorton> ok, installed up, had a play and I'm left with a big
question about the concurrency features and their stated 'inspiration from CSP' -
given that all I can find no select/alt, for instance (for non-determinism, a la
occam via newsqueak) or other algebraic-style control, just co-routines, isn't
this just pi-calculus (rather than CSP)-like channel passing?
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12:59 < JBeshir> Oh, I like the easy unit testing setup.
12:59 * wollw ran the hello world example as a cgi
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13:00 < wollw> so yeah, no reason for it not to
13:00 < JBeshir> Wait
13:00 < JBeshir> Things written in C/C++/whatever were too slow
13:00 < JBeshir> So you wrote...  nevermind, forget it.
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13:01 < binBASH> JBeshir: I know it's quite unbelievable
13:01 < nc> it won't build on openbsd :(
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13:01 < nc> atleast, it hasn't with my efforts so far
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13:01 < blasdelf> nc: here's a nickel kid, get a real operating system
13:02 < nc> "lol"
13:02 < nets> google wave its nice :)
13:02 < psankar> I am trying to package go for openSUSE.  Our buildsystem
doesnt allow to connect to outside network during the builds.  So, one of the
testcases fails causing the build to break.
13:02 < scriptdevil> psankar: Take a snapshot.
13:02 < psankar> Is there a way i can disable all network related test cases
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13:02 < psankar> scriptdevil, snapshot ?
13:03 < scriptdevil> psankar: I am sorry.  I did not mean the testcases.
13:03 < RayNbow> btw, has anyone tried writing a go program for the
thread-ring benchmark?  :)
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13:03 < binBASH> JBeshir: For me it was really faster to code something in
PHP which does preforking and provide websites than regular Apache (mod_php) or
13:03 < temoto> ./all.bash finished with ---\n> panic PC=xxx\n0 known
bugs; 0 unexpected bugs; test output differs is that "panic PC=xxx" thing normal?
Should i report it?
13:03 < psankar> okay...  any solutions for this ? (apart from trying to
patch thigns msyelf) ?
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13:03 < nc> temoto: i think there is a ticket for that issue on the bug
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13:05 < scriptdevil> psankar: I guess just ignoring all the tests should
work.  It will work most of the time anyway
13:05 < psankar> scriptdevil, how do i ignore the test ?
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13:06 < scriptdevil> psankar: psankar In run.bash
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13:09 < psankar> scriptdevil, I commented the `make test` line inside the
maketest() function.  there are some smoketests below that.....  shall i disable
all fo them ? or better, can i comment the run.bash itself ? ((bcos it looks to me
that run.bash is only for testing)
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13:10 < scriptdevil> psankar: I do not know :) Try that :)
13:10 < psankar> scriptdevil, ah okay.  I thought you are one of the prime
developers :-)
13:11 < scriptdevil> psankar: Lol no!  I am just another person who is
interested.  And I maintain the Archlinux Package
13:11 < psankar> scriptdevil, ah okay ...  :-)
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13:14 < engla> did I see right, and example using `backticks` in go syntax?
13:14 < engla> python abandons backticks for good reasons
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13:15 < RayNbow> what's the problem with backticks?
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13:16 < engla> hard to type, hard to see what they are
13:16 < engla> the " and ' are pretty universally recognized though
13:17 < engla>
13:18 < ment> and 'l' looks very much the same as '1'
13:18 < RayNbow> hard to type is not a reason not to use them...  it can
only be a reason not to use them for important things you use a lot
13:18 < RayNbow> and in go (as far as I've seen), backticks are used for raw
13:19 < RayNbow> and I doubt you'd use raw strings a lot in day-to-day
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13:19 < engla> keeping all of the language accessible is a sensible goal to
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13:20 < Innominate> does go actually use backticks?
13:20 < Innominate> also hard to type is a fantastic reason to not use
13:20 < engla> I saw it in a flag.Int(..) example but I wasn't sure if it
was a typo
13:21 < RayNbow> raw_string_lit = "`" { unicode_char } "`" .
13:21 < nc> hmm
13:21 < nc> has anyone encountered this error
13:21 < nc> make: make: don't know how to make dofmt.o.  Stop in
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13:22 < temoto> What is size of Go light thread?
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13:27 < JBeshir> Hmm, how does one convert bytes to a string?
13:27 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined
13:27 < JBeshir> Just...  String(<byte thing>)?
13:27 < JBeshir> s/String/string/
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13:28 < sobersabre> hi..
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13:29 < a1> Did anyone try building go on cygwin?
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13:33 < shaiguitar> daganev: Well it was before you came ;)
13:33 < shaiguitar> dorkalev: Well it was before you came ;)
13:33 < shaiguitar> daganev: nm /ignore
13:33 < dorkalev> shaiguitar: sigh
13:33 < shaiguitar> :)
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13:35 < dchest> JBeshir: yes.  at least, it works for me
13:35 < mmu_man> ./all.bash: line 7: bash: command not found
13:36 < mmu_man> hmm some OS I know installs bash as /bin/sh ...
13:36 < JBeshir> "foo.go:22: cannot use &foo_buf (type *[512]uint8) as type
13:36 < under> Are the compilers for windows or linux?
13:36 < JBeshir> Linux and Mac OS X, I think.
13:37 < under> Mac?  Lol.
13:37 -!- schrdoingers_CT [n=IV@74-128-123-101.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined
13:37 < JBeshir> Ah, nevermind.
13:37 < sobersabre> under: what is so laughable about Mac ?
13:37 < JBeshir> It works if I call string() explicitly and pass it a
pointer to the array, rather than the array itself.
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13:38 < under> sobersabre, I can understand for Linux, but Mac..  Why not
13:38 < Innominate> two reasons
13:38 < sobersabre> under: easily understandable :) the devels probably use
13:38 < sobersabre> and Linux.
13:38 < sobersabre> but not windows...
13:38 < Innominate> osx is bsd based, and the devs happen to use it
13:38 < JBeshir> UNIX-likes have a lot more in common than UNIX-likes and
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13:40 < mmu_man> hmm of course "which" doesn't work here...
13:40 < sobersabre> mmu_man: where are you that you don't have which ?
13:42 < zLuke_> is there a release versioning system for the language?  like
0.001 ?
13:42 -!- luca_work_ [n=luca@host35.190-136-120.telecom.net.ar] has joined
13:43 < zLuke_> now we need a "google docs" kind of go IDE from google :-)
13:44 < mmu_man> sobersabre BeOS
13:44 < vegai> does anyone in google use windows?  :P
13:44 < mmu_man> guess it will only ever work in Haiku
13:44 < under> i dont think so :)
13:44 < mmu_man> BeOS doesn't have /bin/which, just a function in
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13:45 < JBeshir> Hmm.
13:46 -!- savij [n=xl091@88-107-0-98.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #go-nuts
13:46 < mmu_man> well given the state of pthread in BeOS I guess I'll just
try Haiku only
13:46 < aaront> of course people at google use windows
13:46 < JBeshir> Is there a syntax for ignoring a function return value for
a multi-return-value function?
13:46 < JBeshir> Or otherwise telling it to stop complaining that I never
use that particular value?
13:46 < Innominate> use _ in place of the variable
13:46 < JBeshir> Okay.
13:47 < Innominate> _, err = Write(stuff);
13:47 < scriptdevil> vegai: Yes.
13:48 < scriptdevil> vegai: In the Mercurial talk, the problem was that
there wasn't a machine that had OpenOffice2/Linux :-| So the entire show was by
13:48 -!- dsp_ [n=dsp@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #go-nuts
13:48 < mmu_man> ...  at least using $BASH instead of hardcoding wouldn't
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13:49 < jkp> wow!
13:49 < jkp> man, this place is busy already :)
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["Vision[0.9.7-H-090423]: i've been blurred!"]
13:49 < scriptdevil> jkp: It is growing.
13:49 * jkp has just finished watching the google talks video and is excited
13:49 < watermind> hmmm kind of ugly that 3.0 can be assigned to an integer
13:49 < ment> hmm 8g is checking prototypes in compile time against
imported.8 ?
13:49 < jkp> one question: is there any database support yet?
13:50 < a1111> Oh I'm such an idiot...  of course it wouldn't work in cygwin
13:50 < a1111> it produces elf binaries
13:50 < a1111> god damn it
13:50 < vegai> jkp: doesn't seem to be
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13:50 < scriptdevil> a1111: Good that you confirmed that.
13:50 < jkp> vegai: :(
13:51 < scriptdevil> jkp: There are people proposing oracle and sqlite
support already.  Some may already be working
13:51 < andguent> a1111: even if.  cygwin is a pain.  it has to run on bare
windows to be usable
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13:51 < scriptdevil> jkp: Aren't you asking too much from a 3 day old
13:51 < jkp> scriptdevil: kk :)
13:51 < jkp> scriptdevil: its not 3 days old ;)
13:51 < jkp> but yeah, i did wonder
13:51 < jkp> si there an official blog to subscribe to yet?
13:52 < jkp> id like to watch progress passively at least
13:52 < ment> oh noes, blag?
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13:53 < jkp> w00t, it does have zlib compression: maybe i can reimplement my
client side stuff for starters...see if i can get something to interoperate
13:54 < clearscreen> is it the google repo or just mercurial that is piss
13:54 < ment> ok, how to compile project with circular imports?  a.go:
import "b"; b.go: import "c"; c.go: import "a" ?
13:54 -!- psankar [n=evo@opensuse/member/psankar] has quit []
13:54 < mmu_man> warning: redefinition of `ushort
13:55 < scriptdevil> The one thing I am worried about is that by separating
Interfaces, values and messages things can get scattered around pretty soon.  :( I
may be wrong though.  I am no Software Engg.  Guru
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13:55 < mmu_man> let's just copy the *bsd stuff
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13:56 < mmu_man> couldn't you just use makefiles ?
13:56 < ment> what do you mean by that?
13:56 < andguent> mmu_man: there's quite some trickery involved with the p9p
bits in golang.  to the best of my knowledge no one has so far done p9p on haiku.
so there might be some traps
13:56 -!- volker48 [n=marcus@c-69-253-247-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined
13:57 < andguent> mmu_man: especially headers and stuff
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13:57 < volker48> I'm tring to build on mac osx and i get this error ---
FAIL: net.TestDialError
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13:57 < mmu_man> andguent if someone did it before there would be no point
in porting :p
13:57 < andguent> mmu_man: p9p != golang.  but golang uses some p9p bits.
13:57 < mmu_man> ment having shell scripts to call make is just denying the
usefulness of make itself
13:58 < mmu_man> and its benefits
13:58 < mmu_man> andguent will see when I'll hit the wall
13:58 < andguent> mmu_man: it's basically the recreation of several original
plan9 libs under a posix system
13:58 < mmu_man> I'm used to doing recursive porting now anyway, so many
apps depending on useless things
13:58 < ment> mmu_man: the shellscripts are calling make
13:58 < mmu_man> the only left is FF3 + Cairo but I'll leave that to someone
else ;)
13:59 < mmu_man> ment exactly, for stuff make itself should be fine, and it
also forces clean all which defeats any possible dependancy handling
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14:00 < mmu_man> seems people now all have 4GHz machines they don't feel
necessary to avoid rebuilding stuff
14:00 < mmu_man> src/lib9/_p9dir.c:245: structure has no member named
14:00 < mmu_man> ohkay...
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14:01 < ment> mmu_man: i think they have some issues with compilation/link
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14:01 < uriel> mmu_man: given that the go compilers can rebuild the whole go
tree (>100k lines of code) in under 10sec in a 2Ghz laptop, I don't think
rebuilding is an issue
14:01 < mmu_man> well this should be solvable by explicitely depending a
target by another one but well
14:02 < uriel> (or maybe you mean the C bits, but those only need to be
built once mostly..
14:02 < mmu_man> uriel well for now I need to bootstrap it with gcc, which
isn't really a beast
14:02 < uriel> yea, gcc is an abomination
14:02 -!- millenomi [n=millenom@93-35-148-23.ip55.fastwebnet.it] has joined
14:02 < mmu_man> except each time I fix a header missing or whatever,
./all.bash cleans up everything :p
14:02 < uriel> you could use ken's C compilers ;P
14:02 < jkp> volker48: im getting failures too
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14:02 < uriel> which are also ridiculously fast
14:03 < ajhager> volker48: I am having the same exact issue.  Trying to
track down exactly where it is failing.
14:03 < mmu_man> ok there is a _HAVESTGEN but where do I undef this
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14:03 < rawtaz> hello!
14:03 < bnijk_> hey
14:03 < g0wda> hello
14:04 < mmu_man> ah top of the file
14:04 < rawtaz> i would like to know if the *awesome* go mascot is also open
sourced and available in some nice graphics format?  :D
14:04 * bnijk_ reaches into his santa-bag, "oh let's see here little boy"
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14:04 < mmu_man> rawtaz like SVG ? ;)
14:04 < rawtaz> mmu_man: yeah that would be cool :)
14:04 < bnijk_> i think i might have just the thing!
14:04 < rawtaz> some vector thingie
14:05 < rawtaz> i just love it
14:05 < rawtaz> i bet you do too :p
14:05 * bnijk_ gets bitten by something in his bag
14:05 < rawtaz> =P
14:05 < bnijk_> wtf
14:06 < mmu_man> ok now it seems to build further...
14:06 < bnijk_> nope, you're out of luck kid
14:06 < rawtaz> wow, there's a lot of ppl in here.  did most of them join
within the last week or so?
14:06 < mmu_man> src/libmach/executable.c:517: syntax error before `union'
14:06 < bnijk_> better load it up in inkscape and make it yourself
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14:06 < rawtaz> bnijk_: oh noes, is that so?
14:06 -!- miff [n=ww@] has joined #go-nuts
14:06 < bnijk_> looks like it
14:06 * mmu_man throws a C89SyntaxErrorException
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14:06 < rawtaz> bnijk_: aight :)
14:06 < bnijk_> if you like the go logo, though
14:07 < bnijk_> i think you can get tshirts of the plan9 logo ;)
14:07 < rawtaz> haha yea
14:07 < rawtaz> im not sure they'd be able to stay in the same room though?
14:07 < bnijk_> you're right
14:07 < bnijk_> the plan 9 bunny would be disappointed with rob's decision
to work with google
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14:08 < rawtaz> hehe
14:08 < rawtaz> so does this one have a name?
14:08 * bnijk_ disappears in a puff of telephones
14:08 < rawtaz> ttyl
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14:09 * mmu_man thanks eternally Plan9 for giving UTF-8 to BeOS 15y ago and
finally GNU/Linux people seeing light
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14:09 < mmu_man> src/libmach/obj.c:86: duplicate array index in initializer
14:10 < mmu_man> hmm must be some C89 again
14:10 < rawtaz> oh.  seems to be potential issues with the name of this
language :o
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14:10 < rawtaz>
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14:12 < m0rra> haha.  how about just go-pl.  :
14:12 < mmu_man> it's a game as well...  eh
14:12 < Innominate> rawtaz: If you count a guy's toy language.  It seems to
only be documented in a self published book and a couple of academic papers that
aren't available without paying for them.(Am i wrong?)
14:12 < muzgo> --- FAIL: http.TestClient Get
http://www.google.com/robots.txt: dial tcp connection timed out
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14:12 < muzgo> does the http package supports proxies?
14:12 < muzgo> sorry, i was lazy
14:12 < muzgo> gonna read the docs
14:13 < rawtaz> Innominate: maybe so :) spontaneously i think one should
pick a name that isnt already used though
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14:13 < Innominate> rawtaz: If you're willing to count that as "used" you're
looking at a hell of a search
14:13 < rawtaz> hehe
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14:14 < brontide> rawtaz: when I saw the bug report I went looking myself.
You have to use the authors name to get any hits
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14:14 < Innominate> And the hits are all the book, i still have no idea what
his language looks like
14:14 < mmu_man> well, google will just do what Kraft Food did with my
neighbour Milka Budmir, (sue her and get her website milka.fr for free)
14:14 < mmu_man> :^P
14:15 < cDlm> Innominate: a bit like prolog
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14:15 < Innominate> cdlm: Have you seen it or are you getting that from the
first page of one of his papers?
14:15 < watermind> Are there no sum types??
14:15 < cDlm> but the conflict with the game is what's the most awkward
14:15 < Associat0r>
14:15 < cDlm> Innominate: preview of the book
14:16 < brontide> Actually I find the use of a basic verb to be annoying
since searching for related websites is nearly impossible
14:16 < cDlm> the game of Go suggests a real minimal language like smalltalk
lisp or FP
14:16 < mmu_man> hmm what's the rationale behind using
14:16 < mmu_man> [Obj68020] "68020 .2", _is2, _read2,
14:16 < mmu_man> instead of
14:16 < mmu_man> [Obj68020] {"68020 .2", _is2, _read2},
14:17 < mmu_man> which is valid C89 and a lot more logical anyway...
14:17 < rawtaz> brontide: maybe google censored the searches not requiring
the "original" authors name?  ;-D
14:17 < bnijk_> google is bad
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14:18 < cbeok> just trying to catch the buzz, anybody doing anything
14:18 < kfx> nope
14:18 < kfx> nothing at all
14:18 -!- kill-9 [n=kill-9@cpe-65-24-145-70.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined
14:18 < kfx> there hasn't even been any activity in this channel in months
14:19 < m0rra> well, just reading through issue 9, cbeok
14:19 -!- Zaba [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has joined #go-nuts
14:19 < m0rra> haven't laughed so hard in a while
14:19 < mmu_man> ok let's try :%s/^\([.*]^I\)\(.*\),$/\1{\2},/gc on 8db.c
14:19 < psankar> I packaged go compiler as a rpm and when i try to compile a
helloworld.go file, I get: fatal error: can't find import: fmt
14:19 < mmu_man> hmm
14:19 -!- emit [n=emit@unaffiliated/emit] has joined #go-nuts
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14:19 < psankar> whereas in a local build things work fine
14:19 < kfx> psankar: environment vars set?
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14:19 < Innominate> psankar: That happens if you dont have goroot set
14:20 < psankar> kfx, ahhh.  I think not.  I thought environ.  variables are
needed only for compiling the compiler
14:20 < cbeok> haha m0rra, thanks, thats hilarious
14:20 < psankar> kfx, Innominate : I dont ahve the sources.  I have created
a rpm by packaging the output of all.bash
14:21 -!- jawbroken [n=jawbroke@c114-76-153-199.sunsh2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has
joined #go-nuts
14:21 < psankar> I have all the files taht will be in the GOBIN directory
14:21 < psankar> I mean I have a gofmt in my /usr/bin
14:21 < rawtaz> damn.  its totally incredible that google havent come up
with a chrome release for mac yet.  its been ages :<
14:21 < Innominate> psankar: point gooroot at the output of all.bash, i hope
you have more than just the binaries
14:22 < rawtaz> so its at least nice to see that go comes for mac as a first
release :)
14:22 -!- benchik [n=benny@] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"]
14:22 -!- scriptdevil [n=scriptde@] has joined #go-nuts
14:22 < mmu_man> :%s/^\(\[.*\] \)\(.*\),\(.*\)$/\1{\2},\3/gc
14:22 < psankar> Innominate, i think i havent made myself clear...  i
created a rpm which packages the output of all.bash....  so now i install the .rpm
in another machine where there is no all.bash
14:23 -!- sysRPL [n=sysrpl@uslec-66-255-47-18.cust.uslec.net] has joined #go-nuts
14:23 < psankar> Innominate, it is in this new machine where i have the rpm
installed, i am getting the error
14:23 < sysRPL> does go support objects?
14:23 < engla> rawtaz: the go devs have some *nix heritage so it's not
really surprising.  but nice.
14:23 < sysRPL> i guess not
14:23 < rawtaz> yeah
14:23 < Innominate> psankar: Yes but what do you consider the output of
14:23 < Innominate> If it's literally everything, you just need to set your
environment variables
14:23 < psankar> Innominate, i meant all the files that are created in the
$GOBIN directory
14:24 -!- cyberwiz [n=mitashki@Bolt.marketxs.com] has joined #go-nuts
14:24 -!- arun [n=arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts
14:24 < watermind> so am I right that there are no sum types?
14:24 < psankar> Innominate, oh you mean, i should set the GOROOT to thje
directory where the bianries are copied ? (/usr/bin in this case)
14:24 < Innominate> psankar: There is more to go than the binaries, you need
the goroot
14:24 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit ["using
sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]
14:24 -!- emiranda [n=chatzill@SCZ-200-73-96-00241.wimaxtigo.bo] has joined
14:24 < Innominate> it's like copying gcc into /usr/bin without having any
include files
14:25 < sysRPL> really, what the point of go?  no objects, no events, ...
it just another function programming language
14:25 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: Depends on what you call objects.  From what I
can see, because of splitting messages and values, it is like an object
14:25 < temoto> What is size of Go light thread?
14:25 < psankar> Innominate, ahah..  Okay.  so what are the other files that
must be packaged ?
14:25 -!- maragato [n=robteix@nat/intel/x-qhjhdahoozboiuzn] has quit [Remote
closed the connection]
14:25 < psankar> Innominate, in addition to the binaries....
14:25 < Innominate> psankar: Shrug, just package the whole GOROOT tree
14:25 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: Events can be emulated by channels and select.
14:26 -!- rexes13 [n=p_tourna@] has joined #go-nuts
14:26 < rexes13> hey
14:26 < scriptdevil> psankar: Check my PKGBUILD if you want.  [manveru
deserves a lot of credit for it too]
14:26 < scriptdevil> rexes13: hey :)
14:26 < sysRPL> no properties, no virtual methods, no inheritence, no
delegates, no indexers
14:27 < psankar> Innominate, hmm.  that doesnt sound correct.  for instance,
i cannot comiple gcc sources and gcc binary when i want to give gcc.  (or may be i
am confusing)
14:27 < rexes13> where the heck is $GOROOT?
14:27 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: The point is DO YOU NEED ALL THAT?
14:27 < rexes13> cant install go
14:27 < psankar> scriptdevil, ah tahnks.  /me looks
14:27 < temoto> sysRPL: a language not similar to C# is worthless in your
eyes, huh?
14:27 -!- t0d0r [n=t0d0r@ip-75-188.interbild.net] has joined #go-nuts
14:27 < sysRPL> i acuatlly don't use c#
14:27 < rexes13> can someone help me install it?
14:27 < sysRPL> i use fpc
14:27 < uriel> sysRPL: not having those things is a huge feature
14:27 < Innominate> rexes: It's wherever you set it to be
14:27 < telemachus> rexes13: $GOROOT is where you set it
14:27 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: It is like saying.  Hey.  I hate *nix because
it has no Internet Explorer.  It has no Visual Studio.  It has no kernel.dll
14:27 < rexes13> didnt set it
14:27 < telemachus> I believe the default is $HOME/go
14:28 < temoto> rexes13: set it :)
14:28 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined
14:28 < telemachus> rexes13: you need to set it
14:28 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Client
14:28 < rexes13> temoto: how?
14:28 < telemachus> see here: http://golang.org/doc/install.html
14:28 < nc> hello
14:28 -!- iant [n=iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit
14:28 < rexes13> telemachus: where are u from?
14:28 -!- Jurily [n=jurily@catv-89-135-6-27.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #go-nuts
14:28 < sysRPL> scriptdevil: actualyl it's like saying, why can't i create
an object heirarchy
14:28 < rexes13> telemachus: didnt help at all
14:28 < Innominate> psankar: I'm new to this too, so i have no idea which
files you need and which you don't, just that the $GOROOT is where go keeps its
standard libaries and such
14:28 < telemachus> rexes13: it doesn't matter where I'm from
14:28 < temoto> rexes13: i.e.  echo 'export GOROOT=$HOME/go' >>
14:28 < telemachus> $GOROOT and company are environment variables
14:28 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: Because it does not work that way
14:28 < rexes13> maybe we are from the same country
14:29 < psankar> Innominate, ohokay tahnsk for the help
14:29 < sysRPL> scriptdevil: functgional programming is good, but it's not
what we need in a "new" language
14:29 < telemachus> you set them in your shell's start-up files
14:29 < telemachus> say .bashrc
14:29 < temoto> rexes13: or open your favourite editor and add that line
14:29 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: It is not about that alone.  Please read the
docs and listen to the video
14:29 < Innominate> go isn't really a functional language
14:29 < rexes13> i dont get ya
14:29 < telemachus> rexes13: ok, that's fine, but you will need to learn a
bit then
14:29 < rexes13> the install html didnt help me
14:30 < telemachus> what shell are you using
14:30 < rexes13> i have an hg directory in my pfloder
14:30 < sysRPL> sure that all it is, is a functional language with support
for concurrency
14:30 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: Channels are totally cool.  They might be from
CPL or whatever.  goroutines steal the show too
14:30 < rexes13> bash shell
14:30 -!- clearscreen [n=clearscr@e248070.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts
14:30 < Jurily> goroutines have a weird name
14:30 < engla> did anyone compile gccgo yet?  How long approx is the
compile, and any tips how to speed it up?  (for example, do I need to enable c++
for go?)
14:30 < scriptdevil> Jurily: wordplay on coroutines :P
14:30 < telemachus> ok, you will need to edit a file in your home directory
(it probably already exists) called .bashrc (or perhaps .bash_profile)
14:30 -!- RazvanM [n=RazvanM@pool-173-75-187-87.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit
[Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
14:30 < delfick1> sysRPL: have you read even atleast the tutorial ?
14:31 < Jurily> but I guess it's better than 'threads'
14:31 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: Well.  I would hate a language that does it
all.  If you did, go lisp ;)
14:31 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: Before you are flamed for trolling.  Please
watch the video.
14:31 < telemachus> rexes13: add lines like this: GOROOT='$HOME/go'
14:31 < sysRPL> i've seen them
14:31 < rexes13> telemachus: where?
14:31 < Jurily> did anyone write a GNU-style command line parser yet?
14:31 < sysRPL> go is a concurrent functioanl laguage ...  woop dee doo
14:32 < telemachus> rexes13: I just said in your .bashrc or .bash_profile
14:32 < Element14> it's a functional language?
14:32 < scriptdevil> Element14: He is trolling.
14:32 -!- Solver [n=robert@capella.opentrend.net] has joined #go-nuts
14:32 < delfick1> sysRPL: with garbage collection, hides a lot of complexity
of concurrent programming, almost like a dynamic language, etc with mighty fast
compiling time and close to C speed
14:32 < telemachus> Jurily: there is a built-in flags parser, but not quite
as elaborate as Getopt
14:32 < temoto> Oh noes, it's a functional language because someone said
it!!  :)
14:32 < telemachus> well, not built in, but an available library
14:33 < nc> hello
14:33 < nc> has anyone come across this error: ?
14:33 < nc> make: make: don't know how to make dofmt.o.  Stop in
14:33 < sysRPL> the world does not need another strictly functional
programming language
14:33 < temoto> sysRPL: please stop trolling.
14:33 < rexes13> telemachus: where is this damn file??
14:34 < Element14> sysRPL: the world does not need another strictly
functional programming language troll
14:34 < scriptdevil> Element14: Good one!
14:34 -!- emiranda [n=chatzill@SCZ-200-73-96-00241.wimaxtigo.bo] has left #go-nuts
14:34 < mmu_man> ar: haiku.o: No such file or directory
14:34 -!- aht [n=chickama@] has joined #go-nuts
14:34 < mmu_man> hmm I suppose this I must write :)
14:34 < nc> i guess not..
14:34 < telemachus> rexes13: what os are you in?
14:34 < sysRPL> hey, i am trying to save you all from the effort ...  go
back to C (which is fine btw)
14:34 < rexes13> linux
14:34 < telemachus> rexes13: open a terminal and enter ls -lA
14:35 -!- brianmacdonald [n=brianmac@c-98-208-175-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has
joined #go-nuts
14:35 * delfick1 laughs at sysRPL
14:35 < kfx> thanks for your efforts sysRPL nobody cares
14:35 -!- Raziel2p [n=Raziel2p@] has joined #go-nuts
14:35 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: I will save your time.  Get out :P
14:35 < telemachus> do you see any items named .bash<something>?
14:35 < rexes13> done
14:35 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: We actually don't care about your comments :P
14:35 -!- cbeok [n=user@lnk2-themill-gw.binary.net] has quit [Remote closed the
14:35 < rexes13> yeap
14:35 < Jurily> if you want to save effort, why C?
14:35 < telemachus> rexes13: help a brother out - list them
14:36 < scriptdevil> sysRPL: How many other languages had 300+ people in its
channel this soon?
14:36 < JBeshir> Eurgh, Go is horribly painful to experiment with.  For
every test line of debug output I add, I have to go add a module, add a variable
in place of a _, and to undo it, I have to reverse those; to repeat elsewhere, I
need to do that again, because I can't leave unused dependencies in temporarily.
14:36 < rexes13> telemachus: ?
14:36 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined
14:36 < sysRPL> scriptdevil: if you didn't care then you would not have
14:36 < mmu_man> at east I won't have any "return -EFOO;" to fix, good
14:36 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@] has quit []
14:36 < telemachus> rexes13: tell me what files you found with the word bash
in them
14:36 * telemachus sighs
14:36 < mmu_man> (people doing this should be slapped on public place"
14:36 < sysRPL> scriptdevil: no one is going to use "Go"
14:36 < rexes13> i opened the .bashrc file
14:36 -!- jbrockmeier [n=jbrockme@opensuse/member/jbrockmeier] has joined #go-nuts
14:37 < rexes13> it has a line like it GOROOT=$HOME/go
14:37 < JBeshir> Go needs a socket I/O tutorial sometime
14:37 < telemachus> oh for crying out loud
14:37 < telemachus> did it get there by itself rexes13?
14:37 -!- ninja123 [n=ninja123@] has joined #go-nuts
14:37 < rexes13> idk
14:37 < telemachus> rexes13: gotcha
14:38 < nc> try turning $HOME into ${HOME}
14:39 -!- hamaxx [n=hamax@89-212-75-219.static.t-2.net] has quit [Read error: 104
(Connection reset by peer)]
14:39 < temoto> rexes13: prepend GOROOT with word export.
14:39 -!- mow [i=curmudge@mom.nu] has joined #go-nuts
14:39 < delfick1> is it (or will it be) possible to call go from python?
(i.e.  like go version of a c module in python)
14:39 < temoto> rexes13: it must look exactly like this line:
14:39 < sysRPL> and who the hell needs pointer * in a new language anyhow
...  i use a native code langaueg without a vm and i don't need * or &
14:39 < temoto> export GOROOT=$HOME/go
14:40 < jkp> sysRPL: agreed about pointers
14:40 < jkp> it seems a bit odd
14:40 -!- crez [n=crez@122.199.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 60
(Operation timed out)]
14:40 < kfx> sysRPL: hey do you have any good programs in system RPL
14:40 < kfx> I have an hp50g and there's really a dearth of useful tools
14:40 < jkp> im guessing thats the old C hackers coming out in Thompson et
14:40 < sysRPL> kfx: yes about 20 years ago
14:40 < scriptdevil> rexes13: http://pastebin.com/m28b1dfd8
14:40 < sysRPL> for the 48gx
14:40 -!- R3ND3R [n=ReNDeR@i209-195-120-51.cia.com] has joined #go-nuts
14:41 < scriptdevil> jkp: Well.  By eliminating pointer arithmetic, it is
14:41 -!- tuples_ [i=55006258@gateway/web/freenode/x-jznxvgefezfwnriy] has joined
14:41 < kfx> the equation library is okay but it really lacks the breadth of
software the 48 series had
14:41 -!- mennis [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined
14:41 < nc> gah
14:41 < nc> this is aggravating me
14:41 < tuples_> Reading from files gives me back "[]uint8".  How do I make
a string out of it?  For example to use it in strconv.Atoi
14:42 < nc> i can't see anything in the makefile that would lead to this
14:42 < scriptdevil> nc: Well.  make clean.  hg revert and try
14:42 < nc> scriptdevil: i did
14:42 -!- aht [n=chickama@] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:42 < tuples_> What is the difference between "[]uint8" and "string"
14:42 < JBeshir> tuples_: Call string(thing read)
14:42 < scriptdevil> nc: Which OS. I am sorry if I am making you repeat
14:42 < R3ND3R> i was wondering if GO would be well suited to creating
interpreters that act as environments
14:42 < nc> scriptdevil: openbsd
14:42 < JBeshir> One is a series of bytes, the other is a string, including
unicode support.
14:42 -!- skerner [n=skerner@nat/google/x-cqoqvvannzxukwoy] has joined #go-nuts
14:42 < nc> scriptdevil: the most probable reason is simply a syntax error
in the makefile
14:42 < nc> i'm researching that now
14:43 < tuples_> JBeshir: Where can that be found in the docs?
14:43 < scriptdevil> nc: Oh. :) Yeah.  OpenBSD is always correct :P
14:43 < R3ND3R> or rather environments that handle interpretation requests
in realtime
14:43 < nc> hehe
14:43 < JBeshir> tuples_: Hell if I know, I asked here.  :P
14:43 < R3ND3R> rather than requiring binaries
14:43 < tuples_> JBeshir: hehehehehehe
14:43 < Innominate> nc: Can you make it use gmake?
14:43 -!- kobkrit [n=kobkrit@ppp-124-122-233-91.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined
14:43 < JBeshir> Well, not about the difference, I assumed that, based on
the whole "unicode support" thing.
14:44 < JBeshir> And what I know about bytes (in short, they aren't
14:44 -!- skerner [n=skerner@nat/google/x-cqoqvvannzxukwoy] has quit ["Leaving"]
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14:44 -!- cmarcelo [n=cmarcelo@enlightenment/developer/cmarcelo] has joined
14:44 < tuples_> JBeshir: "string(buf read)" ...?  buf is a []uint8
14:45 -!- skerner_ [n=skerner@nat/google/x-upnldgouoojxteyv] has joined #go-nuts
14:45 < watermind> hmmm so in go how much is 8+3 * 2 ?
14:45 -!- mdevan [n=mdevan@] has joined #go-nuts
14:45 < JBeshir> tuples_: What's with the " read" part?
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14:45 -!- skerner [n=skerner@nat/google/x-fvfxsukpkxbfmvtt] has joined #go-nuts
14:45 < tuples_> JBeshir: You told me so :)
14:45 < tuples_> Alright, works, thank you so much!
14:45 < JBeshir> "thing read"
14:45 < tuples_> understood!
14:45 -!- aatifh [n=atif@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer)]
14:45 < Jurily> watermind: run it through gofmt first :)
14:45 -!- plainhao [n=plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has joined #go-nuts
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14:46 -!- savij [n=xl091@88-107-0-98.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit ["tired of
trolls and google fanboys"]
14:46 < watermind> Jurily: ah I see...  so gofmt would turn it into 8 + 3*2
14:46 < vomjom> watermind, apparently the answer is 14
14:46 -!- t0d0r [n=t0d0r@ip-75-188.interbild.net] has quit [Connection reset by
14:46 < vomjom> (before gofmt)
14:47 -!- delfick1 [n=iambob@203-59-186-84.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #go-nuts []
14:47 < _dr> the faq states gc is used yacc/bison to generate a parser?
what about the lexer?  does gc already use the native stuff in pkg/go?
14:47 -!- aaront [n=aaront@unaffiliated/aaront] has quit ["And that's all he
14:47 < watermind> vomjom: right thanks, for a moment reading the docs I
thought spaces could be used to set precedences
14:47 < vomjom> watermind, that's what i believed too after reading
effective go :P
14:47 -!- t0d0r [n=t0d0r@ip-75-188.interbild.net] has joined #go-nuts
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14:48 -!- WentNuts [n=wentnuts@adsl-69-151-8-119.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined
14:48 < R3ND3R> sad at the lack of active interpreter hybrid environments
14:48 -!- R3ND3R [n=ReNDeR@i209-195-120-51.cia.com] has left #go-nuts []
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14:49 < mmu_man> hmm what are the needed funcs to be implemented by
<os>.c anyway ?
14:49 -!- three-f-jeff [n=phaedrus@] has joined #go-nuts
14:49 -!- boondox [n=boondox@ninthfloor.org] has joined #go-nuts
14:49 < WentNuts> Good morning.  Has anyone made vim or emacs syntax support
for go?
14:49 < vomjom> vim already exists
14:49 < three-f-jeff> I'm going to second WentNuts on that.
14:50 < nc> :o
14:50 < Innominate> it's included in the distribution wentnuts
14:50 < nc> url to the vim syntax file ? :)
14:50 < wcn> WentNuts: they are in the misc directories.
14:50 < npe> anybody using go in xcode?
14:50 < Innominate> xcode is too
14:50 < nc> oh cool
14:50 < WentNuts> Very cool, thanks Innominate
14:50 < mmu_man> someone will need to write one for Pe
14:50 < vomjom> download the repository and go to misc/vim/go.vim
14:50 < Innominate> under misc
14:50 < three-f-jeff> It's there.  Thanks guys.
14:50 < temoto> Great, thanks.  I was looking for syntax support too.
14:50 < mmu_man> ed: command not found
14:50 < Innominate> it made me very happy finding those
14:50 < scriptdevil> Emacs-mode needs a small patch.  It is on the mailing
14:50 < mmu_man> oh dear, do we *really* need this antiquity ?
14:50 < scriptdevil> mmu_man: Install ed
14:51 < scriptdevil> mmu_man: It is a build dependency
14:51 < Innominate> A unix system without ed might as well not even have ls
14:51 < scriptdevil> Innominate: Nope.  I dont think ed is in coreutils
14:51 < mmu_man> scriptdevil "install" means porting sometimes
14:51 < scriptdevil> Innominate: Archlinux did not have it.  And to think, I
dont even use it
14:51 < nc> gah
14:51 < mmu_man> vi should be able to do this, why need ed
14:51 < mmu_man> or just use sed
14:51 < three-f-jeff> ed is the standard.
14:51 -!- schrdoingers_CT [n=IV@] has quit []
14:51 < scriptdevil> mmu_man: Some testcases.  I dont know
14:52 < nc> is go meant to be built with gmake, and not make?
14:52 < nc> (to whoever suggested i try gmake)
14:52 < three-f-jeff> There are things you can script in ed that you cannot
easily do in sed.
14:52 < mmu_man> nc BSD ?
14:52 < scriptdevil> nc: Yeah.  It is a linux build by default.
14:52 -!- anom1 [n=anom1@cm64.delta149.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts
14:52 < mmu_man> or sunos maybe ?
14:52 < Innominate> nc: I believe it is
14:52 < nc> yeah, i'm running openbsd
14:52 < nc> ah ok
14:52 < mmu_man> in most OSes make = gmake
14:52 < nc> that's probably why it's unable to know how to make dofmt.o :)
14:52 -!- whooosh [n=whooosh@c-76-106-34-132.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Client
14:52 < nc> ah sweet
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14:52 -!- JoLeClodo [n=JoLeClod@wallinfire.net] has joined #go-nuts
14:52 < scriptdevil> nc: I thought of suggesting that.  But yeah...
14:53 < JoLeClodo> hello
14:53 < mmu_man> on BSD I'll likely have to change all calls to make into
$(MAKE) and call export MAKE=gmake ./all.bash
14:53 < rexes13> ok guys added the lines u suggested
14:53 < JoLeClodo> it's possible to embedded go in c program ?
14:53 < Innominate> not currently
14:53 < temoto> rexes13: echo $GOROOT
14:54 < three-f-jeff> JoLeClodo: you probably want to mess with gccgo as it
matures.  That should be able to at least link against C code.
14:54 < mennis> Is there a difference between limbo's iota and go's iota?
14:54 < three-f-jeff> (I haven't tried that yet, though)
14:54 -!- RazvanM [n=RazvanM@dazzler.isi.jhu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
14:54 < watermind> a := [4]int{1, 2, 3, 4}; s := a[1:3]; // howcome s has
length 2...
14:54 < JoLeClodo> three-f-jeff: ok thx !
14:55 -!- absk [n=chatzill@] has joined #go-nuts
14:55 < nc> yea!
14:55 < nc> sweet
14:55 < rexes13> temoto: i ran it
14:55 < rexes13> now?
14:55 < engla> watermind: it's the interval [1, 3)
14:56 < _dr> nc: worked?  i was planning on trying on openbsd, too...
14:56 < temoto> watermind: i didn't study it, but it seems that slicing has
python semantics.  I.e.  that is from 1 including 1, to 3 excluding 3.
14:56 -!- Cool_Fire [i=5c464752@gateway/web/freenode/x-owbcbjflbomdkyju] has
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14:56 < Cool_Fire> heh, busy here
14:56 < temoto> rexes13: what did it output?
14:56 < scriptdevil> mennis: Given that limbo is one of Go's inspirations.
And that I havent hear of itoa elsewhere, maybe.  Read the language reference
14:56 < nc> _dr: yep, it fixed the problem i was having
14:56 < watermind> engla, temoto: ok got it...  yuck :S
14:56 < Cool_Fire> I've got 2 questions, if anyone knows:
14:56 < rexes13> "/home/myuser/go-h
14:56 -!- Esmil [n=esmil@4704ds1-gjp.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts
14:56 < rexes13> hg*
14:56 < ment> range is keyword?  can i write my own "range"?
14:56 < watermind> engla, temoto: is there any obvious reason why it's
inclusive on left and exclusive on right??
14:56 < Cool_Fire> 1.  Is there (any plans) for a IDE for go?
14:56 < nc> _dr: i came across a new error though, much further down the
line of execution...  so if you're gonna build on OpenBSD or a system that doesn't
use gmake by default, just make sure you change 'make' to 'gmake' in *make*.bash
14:57 < temoto> watermind: i actually find it useful in some cases.  I need
to provide good example, but i don't have one in mind right now.
14:57 < Cool_Fire> 2.  What about GUIs?
14:57 < engla> watermind: there are two good reasons.  3-1 = 2, so we should
make the interval halfopen.  and -1:2 to include 0,1,2 would suck so 0:3 for 0,1,2
is better
14:57 < scriptdevil> Cool_Fire: It has good support for vi, emacs, xcode
14:57 < Cool_Fire> ok
14:57 < _dr> ok thanks nc, alias make=gmake should do
14:57 < engla> watermind: you should ask dijkstra about this
14:57 < Cool_Fire> but that's just syntax highlighthing I take it?
14:57 < ment> Cool_Fire: team of programmers from microsoft are working
right now to integrate go into visual studio as Go#
14:57 < nc> _dr: yeah that works too
14:57 < scriptdevil> Cool_Fire: At the moment, yes.  On Emacs, indentations
14:57 -!- brrant [n=John@65-102-225-252.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
14:57 < Cool_Fire> ok, thanks
14:57 < temoto> ment: that's a joke, right?
14:58 < kfx> GUIs?
14:58 < _dr> although having a portable build system right out of the
repository would be nice, too
14:58 < scriptdevil> ment: Really?
14:58 -!- sysRPL [n=sysrpl@uslec-66-255-47-18.cust.uslec.net] has quit []
14:58 < rexes13> temoto: now?
14:58 < kfx> do most 'systems languages' have native GUI support?
14:58 < temoto> rexes13: yeah, great.  Now go on with installation manual.
Y'know, hg clone and all that.
14:58 < Cool_Fire> Does it matter?  I'm just asking if Go does.  It does a
lot of things others don't from what I've seen
14:59 -!- bbeck [n=bbeck@dxr-fw.dxr.siu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
14:59 < scriptdevil> kfx: You could have an add-on
14:59 < rexes13> i did hg clone before
14:59 < ment> temoto: yes.  they are considering the name "Start#" instead
(for copyright reasons).
14:59 < scriptdevil> Cool_Fire: Maybe.  Keep wathching the mailing list.  It
is likely to be Wx. Guido liked it :P
14:59 < temoto> rexes13: oh great, i believe, next step is cd $GOROOT/src ;
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14:59 * scriptdevil stabs himself for spreading rumors
14:59 -!- LordMetroid [n=lordmetr@] has joined #go-nuts
14:59 * madmoose wants Pointy#
14:59 < LordMetroid> ...
14:59 < Cool_Fire> scriptdevil: alright, thanks.  Wx is pretty sweet tbh.
14:59 < engla> watermind:
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15:00 < scriptdevil> Cool_Fire: Well.  That is what I expect/hope it is.  NO
15:00 < Cool_Fire> have a nice day everyone, I'm off again as I'm supposed
to be working.
15:00 < rexes13> yeah but this command gets me an error
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15:00 < absentia> /join #gonads ...  et
15:00 < absentia> er
15:00 < absentia> hi!
15:00 < temoto> rexes13: what error?
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15:00 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v kaib] by ChanServ
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15:00 <+kaib> morning everyone
15:00 < rexes13> says there is no such file or directory
15:01 < temoto> rexes13: you know "gives error" is as useless as not saying
15:01 -!- jandem [n=jandem@unaffiliated/jandem] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:01 < rexes13> i told u the error
15:01 < temoto> rexes13: yeah, thanks.  It's just..  for future.
15:01 < watermind> engla: thanks reading...  I can understand the argument
for starting at 0 and specifying it's dimension, just struggling to see how it
generalizes to this case...  will read and think :)
15:02 < watermind> * its
15:02 < temoto> rexes13: so is alone cd $GOROOT/src successfull?
15:02 < rexes13> nope
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route to host)]
15:02 -!- rob| [n=rob@95-90-45-206-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts
15:02 < brianmacdonald> what's the difference between .g and .go extensions?
15:02 < temoto> rexes13: ah!  Of course.  That's because you done hg clone
earlier and it did clone in other directory.
15:03 < rexes13> damn
15:03 < rexes13> how do i reverse it now?
15:03 -!- aatifh [n=atif@] has joined #go-nuts
15:03 <+kaib> brianmacdonald: go is the canonical extension for go source
files.  where are you seeing a g?
15:03 < temoto> rexes13: ls -l hg, put that into paste
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15:04 < absk> is Go supported only on UNIX systems for now?
15:04 < temoto> kaib: do you know what is the size of Go light thread?
15:04 <+iant> absk: yes
15:04 < brianmacdonald> kaib: you're right.  nevermind
15:04 <+kaib> temoto: goroutine.  roughly a 4kb stack and some accounting
15:04 < temoto> absk: but windows has UNIX subsystem starting from 2003
server, i believe.  This may not guarantee compilation, though.
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15:05 < andguent> temoto: just shut up when you have no idea, will you?
15:05 < absk> ok, then I'll wait for Go# for VS
15:05 <+kaib> temoto: i've been pondering to make that a flag for 5g/5l
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15:05 < rexes13> temoto: now?
15:06 <+kaib> temoto: to make it possible to run more goroutines on targets
with small memories (like 64kb on some arm7 devices)
15:06 < watermind> engla: I honestly don't see how that argument relates to
the definition of slices
15:06 -!- ginkgo [n=ginkgo@chello084113198244.17.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit
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15:06 < temoto> andguent: yeah everyone have bad days.  Don't keep it
15:07 < temoto> rexes13: well let me see the output of ls -l.  But not in
15:07 < zLuke_> cool stuff - will be great when there is some IDE support!
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15:07 < watermind> engla: seemed to my like both a[left_inclusive,
right_inclusive] or a[left_inclusive, dimension_slice] would be more intuitive
15:07 < temoto> rexes13: put that on codepad.org or some other paste
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15:07 < temoto> kaib: what flag?  If that's possible to make goroutine
smaller, why not just make it small by default?  :)
15:07 < wcn> kaib: how far back on the ARM platform does the support go?  I
have some ARM920's (ARM5) that I'd love to do Go tinkering with.
15:07 < mbishop> God, why couldn't they have used := for ALL assignment?
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15:08 < andguent> temoto: the point is: you are telling people who want
help, crap.
15:08 <+iant> mbishop: it helps to have the compiler let you know if you
accidentally used a new name
15:09 < rexes13> temoto: i deleted the folder
15:09 <+kaib> temoto: it's a performance tradeoff.  if you make the
individual segments of the stack smaller you will end up with more
morestack/lessstack calls.
15:09 < _dr> does the gc suite already use the native lexer from pkg/go?
15:09 -!- sobersabre [n=bilbo@] has quit [Read
error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
15:09 < temoto> rexes13: ouch, you could rename it.
15:09 < rexes13> temoto: running the hg clone command again
15:09 <+iant> _dr: no, the gc suite is written in C
15:09 <+iant> _dr: for bootstrapping reasons
15:09 < rexes13> temoto: really?
15:09 < temoto> rexes13: but no problem, just repeat hg clone now.
15:09 < rexes13> temoto: damn me
15:09 -!- piotr [n=piotr@chello084010208203.chello.pl] has joined #go-nuts
15:09 <+kaib> temoto: which cost a bit.  so on machines with plenty of
memory you want most goroutines newer to extend their stack.
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15:10 < temoto> kaib: i wonder how Erlang manages to have its process to be
320 bytes.
15:10 < engla> watermind: the example there is for intervals, a slice is an
interval of indices.  ewd suggests that experiment shows that other conventions
than [,) are confusing.  I think that [a,b) with len = b -a is very logical.
inclusive on both sides would not make it so
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15:10 < zLuke_> any google protocol buffer routines yet?
15:11 < mbishop> I do like how Go got the types correct though.  Size should
be included in type names
15:11 <+iant> zLuke_: they exist but the updated protocol compiler has not
yet been released
15:11 -!- jbrockmeier [n=jbrockme@opensuse/member/jbrockmeier] has left #go-nuts
15:11 <+kaib> wcn: hard to say really.  there is currently only one thing
that precludes using arm5 (use of STREX/LDREX in cas) but that's on my list to
15:11 < Jurily> Is there any way to get the command line without the flags
15:11 < zLuke_> iant: Thanks - will be looking for it
15:11 <+kaib> wcn: the original plan9 compiles are quite old and generate
pretty straightforward code.
15:11 <+iant> Jurily: see the os package, os.Args
15:11 <+kaib> wcn: test it and let me know what breaks ..  :-)
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15:11 < Jurily> thanks
15:12 <+kaib> temoto: remember that those 320 bytes probably don't count
stack storage needed by the process after start.
15:12 < watermind> engla: not really that's not what he suggests at all
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15:12 <+kaib> temoto: a goroutine isn't "using" 4kb when it's started, it
just needs to reserve that much memory.
15:12 < zLuke_> How big is this effort at Google anyway?  team of 5, team of
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15:13 <+iant> zLuke_: I think we're up to about 7 or 8 people
15:13 < wcn> zLuke_: the blog post lists the team, and the CONTRIBUTORS file
lists other Googlers who have helped.
15:13 <+iant> some of them are just pitching in for now
15:13 < watermind> engla: in fact a lot (most really) of what's there has to
do with starting at 0
15:13 -!- dustycarver_ [n=dustycar@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined
15:13 < temoto> kaib: AHA not using.
15:13 < zLuke_> okay - wasn't sure how exhaustive that list was
15:13 < temoto> kaib: how much does it use?
15:14 <+iant> the list is exhaustive, but some of the people just wrote a
few functions here and there
15:14 < watermind> engla: you can have [a,b) regardless of wheather you
start at 0 or anything else
15:14 -!- rexes13 [n=p_tourna@] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection
reset by peer)]
15:14 < watermind> engla: so that's really not what his argument is about
15:14 -!- Metaphorically [n=chatzill@206-248-157-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined
15:14 < zLuke_> Any thoughts for GPU routines (ala OpenCL) stuff?
15:14 -!- fhein [n=freundh@c-bee5e155.258-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has
joined #go-nuts
15:14 <+kaib> temoto: that i don't know.  but keep in mind that the memory
is still lost to the system, which is why it might make sense to make it smaller.
15:15 < nc> getting this to build has turned into an all-day project
15:15 < nc> :/
15:15 <+iant> zLuke_: no real thoughts, I'm sure they would be useful
15:15 < temoto> kaib: i see, thanks for exhaustive answer.
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15:15 < engla> watermind: ok, sure.  the arguments I took from that article
are still the two I told first and nothing more though
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15:16 < rexes13> temoto: finished it
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15:16 < rexes13> it does sth like compiling
15:16 < rexes13> atm
15:16 < rexes13> then i need to know how to write a programm
15:16 -!- pavlakis [n=pavlakis@wlan-146-227-104-150.dmu.ac.uk] has joined #go-nuts
15:16 < zLuke_> I am curious on the interplay that would need to be done to
match the go concurrency stuff with something like openCL or CUDA - will be very
15:16 < temoto> rexes13: i'd visit http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html
15:16 < rexes13> pavlakis: are u greek?
15:16 < pavlakis> rexes13, indeed :)
15:17 -!- atzz [n=alnt@] has joined #go-nuts
15:17 < rexes13> pavlakis: alh8eia?
15:17 < temoto> rexes13: and this http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html
15:17 <+kaib> wcn: so what is the exact hardware you are trying to target?
15:18 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 364 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 361
15:18 < pavlakis> rexes13, nai.  so difficult to believe?
15:18 < rexes13> lol
15:18 < watermind> engla: ok, agreed...  but is argument for that has 2
parts, 1st the one you said, the rest is related with starting with 0, so ...
15:18 < ment> zLuke_: goodluckwiththat
15:19 < rexes13> pavlakis: den synantw kai pollous ellhnes me tetoia
endiaferonta syxna gi ayto aporhsa
15:19 < wcn> kaib: These are older Freescale i.MX1 boards I have lying
around.  I was more curious if it was possible.
15:19 < tuples_> http://pastebin.com/m7658fb7 - What's wrong here?
15:19 < watermind> engla: this seems to satisfy it and be more intuitive,
a[left_inclusive, dimension_slice]
15:19 < pavlakis> rexes13, oute ki egw.  sta perissotera kanalia nomizoun
oti einai nickname :)
15:19 <+kaib> wcn: if it isn't i really want to know about it and fix it.
there is a ton of useful older arm hardware out there which i'd love for us to
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15:20 < watermind> engla: if all you want is to easily get the dimension
just use it as the 2nd parameter then...
15:20 < temoto> I didn't get it from FAQ.  Are two goroutines scale to CPU
cores when they don't do any IO?
15:20 -!- syd [n=sydcogs@] has joined #go-nuts
15:20 <+kaib> wcn: i'm trying to get some arm7 hardware up and running.  the
step from arm7->arm5 is probably doable as well.
15:21 <+kaib> wcn: but like i said earlier, ldrex/strex needs to be fixed in
15:21 < tuples_> ah never mind.
15:21 < ajhager> "There is a “foreign function interface” to allow safe
calling of C-written libraries from Go code." is in the FAQ, but I am having a
hard time finding any other information about it.
15:21 < ajhager> Am I missing something?
15:21 < mmu_man> how about C++ ?
15:21 -!- irotas_ [i=461902a4@gateway/web/freenode/x-xvdjkxvyojzskyap] has joined
15:21 < engla> watermind: sure but would you not have an even bigger problem
if the two number's roles would be that much different.  a[x, y] x: index,
15:21 * mmu_man pets native Haiku GUI bindings
15:21 <+iant> ajhager: it's not well documented but see misc/cgo
15:21 < bizarrefish> hmm
15:21 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit
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15:22 < ajhager> iant: Oh ok.  Thank you.
15:22 -!- _dr [i=dr@sugar.openlsd.org] has quit ["update"]
15:22 < bizarrefish> is there a way of getting 6c/6l to not strip all the
15:22 < engla> watermind: however often it breaks down to using a[x,
(end-x)]..  and if you do that too often in real code, then a[x:end+1] is much
more practical
15:23 < watermind> engla: or using a[x,end]...
15:23 < engla> watermind: sure, allowing negative lengths to mean -x = end
15:23 < temoto> mmu_man: do you really use Haiku?
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15:23 < watermind> engla: I honestly don't see why the semantics of both
arguments being different would be a problem
15:23 <+iant> bizarrefish: the tools don't generate ELF, you can see the
symbols with 6nm
15:23 < bizarrefish> iant, i was talking about the executable
15:23 < watermind> engla: not more complicated then having to memorize that
the first is inclusive and snd is not
15:23 < bizarrefish> but 6nm you say...hmm
15:23 < Diablo-D3> my god
15:24 -!- pydroid [n=kenny@cm12.sigma118.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts
15:24 < Diablo-D3> the channel is even bigger!
15:24 -!- djm [n=djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has joined #go-nuts
15:24 < Diablo-D3> why!
15:24 -!- mennis [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit
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15:24 < bizarrefish> Diablo-D3, yes, my son?
15:24 < Diablo-D3> why is it it bigger!
15:24 < zLuke_> Is there any milestones list for language release versions?
What are the big threads being worked?
15:24 -!- peritus- [n=peritus-@wll192-246.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has joined #go-nuts
15:24 < nomulous> Hey, so what are you all going to do about the name issue?
I really like the name "G"...
15:24 -!- mennis [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined
15:24 < bizarrefish> the thing that bothers me is that a GO
15:24 < engla> watermind: it is not hard to get used to.  are you used to
both inclusive from somewhere else?
15:24 < bizarrefish> program is about 130K just to say hello world
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15:25 -!- bizarrefish [n=bizarref@abdn003.abdn.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the
15:25 < Diablo-D3> someone is going to have to write a library for go called
15:25 < zLuke_> bizarrefish: my 6.out "Hello World" example was 620k
15:26 < watermind> engla: well pascal for instance
15:26 < Diablo-D3> just so the internet can implode at how stupid that is
15:26 < watermind> engla: when defining arrays
15:26 -!- crankyadmin [n=crankyad@user-5af2599d.tcl121.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined
15:26 <+aclements> Diablo-D3: ogle is the name of the (currently incomplete)
Go debugger.  I think it's a rather apt name for a debugger.
15:26 -!- lb [n=lb@pd95b8344.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
15:26 < Diablo-D3> aclements: oh crap
15:27 < Diablo-D3> its already started!
15:27 < Diablo-D3> the internet is imploding!
15:27 < watermind> engla: and Haskell too
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15:27 < Esmil> Is the mercury repo down for all or just me?
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15:28 < NaN> I wow, busy channel
15:28 < NaN> Go made slashdot today :)
15:28 < Diablo-D3> nan: yes, and I've been bitching about it all day
15:28 < NaN> Yeah?
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15:28 < Diablo-D3> go makes it to slashdot, but important java news doesnt
15:28 < NaN> What's happening in java?
15:28 < watermind> engla: so which languages do you know that define
15:28 < Diablo-D3> clearly go is an inferior language, but the only reason
slashdot talks about it is because its google's
15:28 < Innominate> important java news is an oxymoron
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15:29 < engla> watermind: so x: 1..10 makes an array from 1 to 10 inclusive
in pascal?
15:29 < watermind> engla: I heard python, but nver used
15:29 < engla> watermind: python
15:29 < NaN> Well, I think a new language is more interesting than anything
I've heard lately about Java
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15:29 < NaN> Especially if go does what it claims about concurrency
15:29 < ment> i think a new language is more interesting than anything i've
heard about java ever
15:29 -!- robot12_ [n=robot12@inferno.kgts.ru] has joined #go-nuts
15:29 < Diablo-D3> nan: but java can do it as well
15:29 < NaN> :)
15:30 < NaN> Java is slow though
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15:30 < engla> watermind: so pascal's syntax 1..10 is to be understood
differently than Python's 1:10 fortunately the syntax is not identical
15:30 < NaN> go claims to be nearly as fast as C
15:30 -!- c_korn [n=korn@Xbff5.x.pppool.de] has joined #go-nuts
15:30 < Diablo-D3> java is almost as fast as
15:30 < Diablo-D3> C
15:30 < kfx> hahahaha
15:30 < Diablo-D3> the only way for go to beat java is for go to be faster
than C
15:30 < Zaba> Diablo-D3, until you start using objects
15:30 < NaN> Not in my experince...
15:30 < watermind> engla: TYPE vector = array[2..10] of integer defines an
array with indexes in [2..10]
15:30 -!- volker48 [n=marcus@c-69-253-247-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit []
15:30 -!- jebblue [n=jebblue@cpe-66-68-154-241.austin.res.rr.com] has joined
15:30 < Diablo-D3> nan: then, please, learn how to not suck with java
15:30 < kfx> Diablo-D3: that's hilarious you're hilarious
15:30 < ment> NaN: i've read in Senior Executive Daily that java is as fast
as C
15:30 < NaN> Hehe
15:30 < LordMetroid> No, really Java has seen a lot of improvements and it
is almost as fast as C
15:30 < watermind> engla: and you can also define...  TYPE bounds = 2..10
15:30 < engla> watermind: since it's a slice it is not hard to imagine 1:10
slicing making [1..9]..  it's a "slice" and the knife (:) is before the number 10
15:31 < watermind> engla: TYPE vector = array[bounds] of integer
15:31 < Associat0r> I have written numerical F# code that was as fast as C
15:31 < mpl> ment: if senior executives said it, it must be true.
15:31 <+aclements> NaN: goroutines were designed to be much lighter-weight
than Java threads, which opens up some interesting possibilities like using them
for generator-style functions.
15:31 < Diablo-D3> Associat0r: bwahahaha, no you havent
15:31 < Associat0r> yes I had
15:31 < Diablo-D3> neither .net nor mono can execute .net bytecode that fast
15:31 < Associat0r> Diablo-D3 the only limit is lack of SSE
15:32 < Diablo-D3> it takes about 2 and a half times more than C does for
any given task
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15:32 < Diablo-D3> in any language
15:32 < jb55> is there anyway to make a slice of initialized channels?
make([]chan bool, 10) builds a slice of nil channels.  Is there a quick way or do
I have to use a for loop calling make on each element?
15:32 < NaN> aclements: I'm looking forward to learning about all of that.
15:32 < watermind> engla: there's a difference between a trick for
memorizing something and an intuitive explanation for a choice, I really believe
the first :P
15:32 < Associat0r> Diablo-D3 so structs that are like more than 2 floats
wide will suffer
15:32 < watermind> *the first is easy
15:32 < NaN> Does anyone know if go is planning to work on a distributed
15:32 < Associat0r> Diablo-D3 but numerically it's as fast and in some cases
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15:32 < Diablo-D3> Associat0r: structs, generally, will suffer under .net
15:32 -!- irotas_ [i=461902a4@gateway/web/freenode/x-xvdjkxvyojzskyap] has quit
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15:32 < Associat0r> Diablo-D3 .NET I am talking about not Mono
15:32 < Diablo-D3> .net is slower than mono
15:32 < engla> watermind: ok.
15:32 -!- MyCatVerbs [n=mycatver@lurkingfox.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts
15:33 < Diablo-D3> so please, stop being a microsoft/novell shill
15:33 < NaN> Diablo-D3: Did you come here just to flame?
15:33 < reality|poolboy> here it comes...
15:33 < Diablo-D3> nan: I came here to laugh at the slashdot crowd
15:33 < engla> watermind: python has extended slicing that I think go has
not, the third parameter is the step.  a[:] is a copy of whole a, and a[::-1] is a
copy of a reversed
15:33 < NaN> Oh
15:33 < zLuke_> Please keep on go related topics/issues
15:33 < NaN> Yeah, I would prefer to talk about go, not Java
15:33 < NaN> I'm in a go channel
15:33 < Associat0r> Diablo-D3
15:33 -!- Selar [n=hussain@wire.dsl.frii.net] has joined #go-nuts
15:33 < NaN> Go whine in the Java channel
15:33 < Associat0r> Diablo-D3 here you go
15:33 -!- Diablo-D3 [n=diablo@] has left #go-nuts []
15:34 < Associat0r> or here http://www.messwithyourjunk.com/?p=26
15:34 < three-f-jeff> There he went.
15:34 < NaN> :)
15:34 < shambler> awww
15:34 < shambler> he left
15:34 < shambler> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/
15:34 -!- dny [n=freedan@170-167-19-84.nbiserv.com] has joined #go-nuts
15:34 < NaN> I guess the logic made too much sense.
15:34 <+aclements> jb55: You have to initialize each one.  One of the design
tenants of Go was to make the cost of every operation obvious (in contrast with,
say, C++), so if you're going to initialize a slice of channels, it should be
obvious that the cost is proportional to the length of the slice.
15:35 < jb55> ok that makes sense, thanks
15:35 < Associat0r> yes the shootout tells otherwise but that's Mono
15:35 < temoto> Are two goroutines scale to CPU cores when they don't do any
15:35 -!- Cy-4- [i=cy-4@1-1-9-15a.hka.j.bostream.se] has joined #go-nuts
15:35 < MyCatVerbs> temoto: Yes, they're multiplexed over OS threads.
15:35 < watermind> engla: right, I've never even used slices before
15:36 -!- hebroon [n=hebroons@p4bcd08.hkidnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined
15:36 < MyCatVerbs> temoto: Unless I've misread the documentation.  ;)
15:36 < zLuke_> Is there a standard form yet to farm goroutines to different
15:36 < hoffmann> shambler: i started to port the shootout exampls to go
http://github.com/hoffmann/go-shootout, any help is welcome
15:36 <+aclements> temoto: I don't quite remember what the scheduler
currently implements, but if it doesn't currently do that, it is planned.
15:37 -!- aef2 [n=aef@gate.kliksys.ru] has joined #go-nuts
15:37 < MyCatVerbs> temoto: http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#parallel
<- yes.  ♥
15:37 < Selar> can I build go on windows?
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15:37 < temoto> MyCatVerbs: thanks for link.
15:38 < clearscreen> Selar: nah
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15:38 < Selar> clearscreen: just loonicies for now?
15:38 < clearscreen> Selar: and mac
15:38 < clearscreen> and you can build apps for linux/mac/arm
15:39 < Selar> i don't have a vm for that, though ;)
15:39 < Selar> ok, cool
15:39 -!- saml [n=sam@h-68-167-23-150.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined
15:39 < bbeck> Is there a vim syntax highlighting plugin for go?
15:39 < saml> no windows binary?
15:39 -!- ag90 [n=ag90@nat/ibm/x-ypecaxijaeflslzk] has joined #go-nuts
15:39 < ment> bbeck: in misc/
15:39 < clearscreen> saml: nope
15:39 <+aclements> zLuke_: No; however, there is an RPC library, so you can
easily build a traditional RPC client/server system.
15:39 < bbeck> ment: thanks
15:39 < saml> success!
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15:39 < jb55> hoffman: aren't most of them implemented under src/bench ?
15:39 < shambler> hoffmann, hehe, thanks for the info, may be I'll
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15:40 < jb55> err
15:40 < jb55> test/bench
15:40 < jb55> rather
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15:40 < aef2> hi all.  I try to build Go on FreeBSD, and see very strange
bug of 8c - http://pastebin.com/d61e4d776
15:40 -!- visionjinx [n=visionji@114.49.220-216.q9.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
15:40 < hoffmann> ahh havn't seen test/bench yet, thanks
15:41 -!- Element14 [n=sydneyfo@pcd303171.netvigator.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
15:41 < NaN> So what does go do to allow processes to communicate across
15:41 < NaN> i.e.  over infiniband or ethernet?
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15:41 -!- niterain [n=niterain@c-76-108-29-82.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read
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15:41 <+iant> NaN: just sockets, in the net package
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15:42 < NaN> So there's no memory sharing mechanism...
15:42 <+iant> NaN: not across machines, no
15:42 < tuples_> What exactly is a string?  Is it a slice of a byte array?
If I have a := "hello"; and b := a[1:3]; does it duplicate that part?
15:42 < NaN> I think go needs MPI or something similar...
15:42 < NaN> coarrays maybe...  :)
15:42 < muzgo> NaN: haha, you must be kidding
15:42 -!- volker48 [n=marcus@c-69-253-247-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined
15:42 < NaN> Not at all :)
15:43 < Selar> sweet, i have a f11 x64 vm.  that should do.
15:43 -!- GGLucas [n=GGLucas@5357F9E6.cable.casema.nl] has joined #go-nuts
15:43 < jb55> Man I'm not getting any work done today, Go is too much fun
15:43 < muzgo> aef2: 8c is a c compiler, not c++
15:43 <+aclements> tuples_: It's implemented underneath as a byte array and
does share memory between string slices.  It is not actually a Go array or slice,
though, since those are mutable and strings are not.
15:44 < muzgo> aef2: no throw there
15:44 < drusepth> jb55: That's the spirit
15:44 -!- Zaba_ [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has joined #go-nuts
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15:44 < drusepth> Get your boss coding Go also and you'll be home free
15:44 < tuples_> aclements: thanks!!  that's great.
15:44 < ment> jb55: what are you working on?
15:44 -!- huf [n=huf@mu.parawag.net] has joined #go-nuts
15:44 < NaN> I don't know, I'd love it if there are a global address space
15:45 -!- saati [n=bjb@marvin.harmless.hu] has joined #go-nuts
15:45 < aef2> muzgo: this is correct C code.  All ok with gcc.  throw - is a
function of go runtime
15:45 < jb55> ment: just learning the language really, playing with
goroutines and seeing if I can get a site running using the template engine
15:45 < tuples_> aclements: so that means that splitting a string will
actually create an "array of slices"?
15:45 < tuples_> eh, that's awesome.
15:46 < ment> btw - channels are used instead of iterators?
15:46 < muzgo> aef2: how would the C compiler (kencc) know where to find
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15:47 < aef2> muzgo: Compiler don't know.  this is a linker problem.  But
this is a preprocessor bug
15:47 -!- gzt [n=gzt@24-151-178-146.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts
15:47 < muzgo> aef2: ok then, if you think so
15:47 <+aclements> tuples_: Well, "slice" has a specific meaning in Go :) It
will return an array of strings, where those strings are all backed by the memory
from the original string.
15:48 < gzt> so I just ported doom to go
15:48 < tuples_> great great great!
15:48 -!- Fred__ [i=1804ecbb@gateway/web/freenode/x-nzzjkvngonfurmrg] has joined
15:48 <+aclements> ment: Yes.  Because goroutines are extremely lightweight,
when used for iterators they effectively devolve into coroutines, just like how,
say, Python generators are implemented.
15:49 -!- elmarco [n=elmarco@a83-245-167-151.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined
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15:49 -!- Jurily [n=jurily@catv-89-135-6-27.catv.broadband.hu] has quit
15:49 < ag90> Question.  Was the net test bug fixed?
15:49 -!- peritus- [n=peritus-@wll192-246.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has quit ["This
computer has gone to sleep"]
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15:50 < vomjom> is there a way to convert a struct straight to a []byte and
vice versa?
15:50 < ment> aclements: where do gorutines come in?  i thought that channel
is just mutexed buffer and without any new threads involved
15:50 <+iant> vomjom: no
15:50 < vomjom> so if i wanted to do straight binary serialization, what are
my options?
15:50 <+iant> vomjom: take a look at pkg/gob
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15:51 < vomjom> iant, ah, thanks
15:51 <+iant> ment: a buffered channel could be used in a single goroutine
if you wanted; a synchronous/unbuffered channel can only be used between
15:51 -!- luiz [n=luiz_cap@] has joined
15:51 <+aclements> ment: I might have misunderstood your question.  You can
iterate using the for range construct over arrays, slices, maps, and channels.
Iterators/generators are typically implemented with a channel being iterated over
in one goroutine and being fed by another.
15:51 -!- sgtarr [n=sgt@rasterburn.org] has joined #go-nuts
15:52 < sgtarr> Go.
15:52 < zLuke_> I love the 100000 goroutine example from the video -
15:52 < sgtarr> Any thoughts on Go for embedded use?
15:52 < ment> aclements: oh, i missed 'go' keyword in container/list.Iter().
15:53 < ment> aclements: now it makes much more sense
15:53 -!- pois0n [n=pois0n@] has joined #go-nuts
15:53 < aef2> Somebody can compile it on Linux box with 8c compiler?
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15:54 <+kaib> sgtarr: on arm it should be possible
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15:55 <+kaib> sgtarr: what type of embedded work did you have in mind?
15:55 < Associat0r> kaib what about kernels and device drivers?
15:55 < sgtarr> kaib: on Arm yes :)
15:55 < sgtarr> kaib: I have a little Telit unit here that runs Linux
15:55 -!- ConSi [i=consi@sh.8px.pl] has joined #go-nuts
15:55 < ConSi> hi
15:55 < ConSi> [;
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15:56 <+kaib> sgtarr: what arm core does it use?
15:56 < Latexxx_> is there an emacs mode for go?
15:56 < sgtarr> kaib: it uses arm9
15:56 < Latexxx_> or something similar for some other editor
15:56 <+aclements> Latexxx_: Yes.  It's in misc/
15:56 <+kaib> Associat0r: should be doable.  i'm counting on the fact that
it's easy to link in assembly into go programs.  on a barebone system you would
end up doing some of the lowest level in assembly and then linking back up into
15:57 < sgtarr> kaib: 4MB of memory
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15:57 <+kaib> sgtarr: ooh.  i wouldn't call that embedded, that's more like
a real machine ..  :-)
15:57 < sgtarr> kaib: yeah, you are right, it's not like a tiny atmel avr
8-bit :)
15:57 <+kaib> sgtarr: i've been looking at an arm7 with 64kb of ram.  and
there was some talk about supporting arm5..
15:58 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined
15:58 < sgtarr> kaib: looking at the arm7 with the intent of running some Go
code on it?
15:58 < Freeaqingme> How realistic would it be to see a solution for shared
webhosting that uses Go any time soon?
15:58 <+kaib> sgtarr: so yes, 5g output is currently running on android
hardware which is presumably arm9 (strex/ldrex)
15:58 <+kaib> sgtarr: yep.
15:58 < mmu_man> sed '1a\ char* anames[] = 1a\ { $a\ }; /^
A/!d;s/A\([A-Z0-9]*\),*/"\1",/' 6l/6.out.h
15:58 < mmu_man> that was easy :)
15:58 < pbunbun> Loving that there's a "Go for C++ programmers" page on the
site :P
15:58 < ment> Freeaqingme: any hosting that allows cgi
15:58 < sgtarr> judging from the size of this channel, people seem excited
about Go
15:59 <+kaib> sgtarr: the one main thing missing is soft float support.
most of the failing tests are due to missing float support in the android
reference implementation.
15:59 < shambler> why not, it's new
15:59 < sgtarr> I see
15:59 < Freeaqingme> ment, that easy :X tnx
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15:59 <+kaib> sgtarr: try simple hello.go using println("hello") instead of
fmt.Printf and let me know how it works
16:00 -!- paulbaumgart [n=paulbaum@cpe-66-75-245-65.san.res.rr.com] has joined
16:00 < pbunbun> sgtarr: I've barely looked at it, but similar to C++, with
built in threading (that's what the "go whatever()" does I assume?) and native
compiling seems pretty awesome, if they get a decent amount of libaries and stuff
for it (for graphics etc.) seems great
16:00 <+kaib> sgtarr: it *should* work out of the box.  and as long as you
do ints you should be fine ..  :-)
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16:00 < sgtarr> kaib: you mean on the arm9?
16:00 -!- triddell [n=tim@207-191-198-64.cpe.ats.mcleodusa.net] has joined
16:00 <+kaib> sgtarr: yep.
16:00 < sgtarr> i can try that :)
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16:00 <+kaib> sgtarr: that's the main hardware i have at the moment.
16:00 -!- kobkrit [n=kobkrit@ppp-124-122-233-91.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit
16:00 < aef2> Somebody can compile it on Linux box with 8c compiler?
16:01 < sgtarr> pbunbun: yea, it may be very interesting, I am doing an
application for an arm9 soon and I might go for Go instead of C if it makes sense
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16:01 < temoto> Is foreach semantics planned?
16:01 <+kaib> sgtarr: actually, if you look at test/run you'll notice that
one can set a launcher fir arm
16:01 < sgtarr> why are the imports in ""'s ?
16:01 < piotr> aef2: test.c:5 function args not checked: throw
16:01 < piotr> test.c:6 function args not checked: throw
16:01 -!- thotypous [n=asdf@archlinux/trusteduser/thotypous] has joined #go-nuts
16:02 -!- vmac [n=vmac@h69-128-47-244.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined
16:02 < sgtarr> kaib: a launcher, so it runs immediately when the device is
switched on, you mean?
16:02 -!- jamesf [n=jfassett@54.Red-88-8-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined
16:02 <+kaib> sgtarr: set that to upload to your board and see how many
tests in /test you can get to pass.
16:02 < jb55> for those who might not have noticed it: misc/vim/go.vim :)
16:02 < aef2> piotr: thank you
16:02 < sgtarr> kaib: oh i see now
16:02 < uriel> dns is not fully propagated yet, and I need to fix some
things, but somebody asked for irc logs: http://go-lang.cat-v.org/irc-logs/go-nuts
16:02 < raysl> no textmate bundle?
16:02 < sstangl> uriel: nice :)
16:02 < hat0> any documentation on building/packaging external libs?
16:02 <+kaib> sgtarr: it can be anything, on android i use adb to push the
binary and launch.  send me run.out at kaib@golang.org
16:03 < jamesf> anyone get make.bash: line 20 ..  /bin/quietgcc: Permission
denied error on os x?
16:03 -!- erik__ [n=erik@rrcs-71-42-227-214.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
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16:03 <+aclements> temoto: What do you mean by "foreach semantics" that's
different from the "for range" construct?
16:03 -!- iant [n=iant@nat/google/x-xfwgfgrvnokygtbn] has joined #go-nuts
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16:03 < sstangl> hat0: see the "Contribute" page
16:03 < sgtarr> kaib: do you work for google?
16:03 <+kaib> sgtarr: yep
16:03 * sgtarr was wondering if ken thompson and rob pike are in here
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16:04 < sstangl> sgtarr: robpike was in here earlier.
16:04 <+kaib> sgtarr: ken hasn't been online, rob is probably asleep.  he
was up pretty late.
16:04 * uriel has a hard time imagining ken on irc...
16:04 -!- crez [n=crez@122.199.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #go-nuts
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16:04 < temoto> aclements: i mean s := 0; for x in intarr { s += x } without
messing with array indicies when you don't need em.
16:04 -!- Rift [n=jhamilto@ip67-152-34-30.z34-152-67.customer.algx.net] has joined
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16:04 < uriel> (I certainly wouldn't want to see ken wasting time in irc ;P)
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16:05 < MyCatVerbs> sstangl: would I be ostracised for admitting that half
my reason for joining this IRC channel was to yell "Hi Rob, thank you for all that
work you did on Unix."?  ;P
16:05 -!- __20h__ [n=some_one@r-36.net] has joined #go-nuts
16:05 <+aclements> temoto: Does "for _, x := range intarr" do what you're
looking for?
16:05 -!- __20h__ [n=some_one@r-36.net] has left #go-nuts []
16:05 < sgtarr> i always assume the oldschool guys hardly even surf the web.
Perhaps they still write code on paper like Dijkstra did, I wonder.  But in ken
and rob's case I'm sure that's not the case.
16:05 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined
16:06 < temoto> aclements: yeah, pretty close, thank you!  I didn't know
16:06 -!- dougie [n=doug@h85.14.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Client
16:06 < sstangl> MyCatVerbs: no, but possibly yes if you did that on the
mailing list ;)
16:06 <+aclements> temoto: for range iterates over both the key and the
value, so it you only bind one you'll get the key/index, but you can use _ to
throw that away and get only the value.
16:06 -!- me__ [n=venkates@c-68-55-179-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
16:06 < me__> whoa, everyone ever is here.
16:06 <+kaib> sgtarr: ok, i'll be off to have some breakfast, i'll be online
later.  i'd be really interested in how much of the tests in /test you can get to
run, keep me posted.
16:06 < temoto> aclements: does Go actually use "_" name for optimizations
or is it really bound to some value?
16:06 < sstangl> me__: it's true!
16:06 < me__> sstangl: sstangl!
16:06 < sstangl> me__: me__!
16:06 -!- kaib [n=kaib@] has quit []
16:07 < sstangl> me__: I meant to work on the driver yesterday, but was
temporarily distracted by Go.
16:07 < ment> btw - gorutines don't fork any threads until some syscall() is
about to enter, right?
16:07 <+iant> temoto: "_" is not bound to a value
16:07 < mmu_man> hmm missing wait3 & wait4...
16:07 <+aclements> temoto: _ is a black-hole.  I'm not sure how much it gets
optimized, but it never gets bound to anything.
16:07 < vomjom> huh
16:07 -!- licio [n=licio@CAcert/Assurer/licio] has joined #go-nuts
16:07 <+iant> ment: in general, yes, though there is also GOMAXPROCS
16:08 < temoto> iant, aclements thanks.  That's great.  I miss that black
hole in python.
16:08 -!- Arek_ [n=arek@76-10-138-81.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #go-nuts
16:08 < vomjom> if i open a file O_RDONLY, is file.WriteString("foo")
supposed to error out?  because it just does nothing right now
16:08 -!- Maddas [n=mz@] has joined #go-nuts
16:08 <+iant> vomjom: it should return an error, it won't crash the program
16:08 -!- impeachgod [n=Long@] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:08 < vomjom> oh, didn't see the error argument :P
16:08 < vomjom> return value i mean
16:08 -!- mulander [i=mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has joined
16:09 < pbunbun> Is there something like exceptions in go?  Like try { ...
} catch(e Exception) { ...  };
16:09 < vomjom> pbunbun, nope
16:09 <+agl> pbunbun: nope
16:09 < ment> iant: what if the gorutine hooks in endless loop (not calling
any syscalls)?  does go runtime have any kind of watchdog?
16:09 < uriel> btw, created a reddit for go links:
http://www.reddit.com/r/golang post any interesting things you find there ;)
16:09 < sstangl> pbunbun: thankfully, no ;)
16:09 <+iant> ment: no, it will just keep running
16:10 < temoto> pbunbun: FAQ states there are no exceptions and why.
16:10 < pbunbun> So you use the return value of a function to determine if
it errors (or pass some argument or whatever?)
16:10 < jb55> uriel: nice
16:10 -!- marciogm [n=marciogm@189-041-172-218.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has
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16:10 <+iant> pbunbun: yes
16:10 < pbunbun> Yeah Exception kinda annoy me in Java but I can kinda see
why they'd be useful (if it didn't FORCE you to use them)
16:10 < sstangl> pbunbun: most functions have a second return value that
denotes error.
16:10 <+aclements> pbunbun: Yep, but unlike in C, since you can have
multiple return values, you don't have to cram the error information in with the
regular return value.
16:10 < me__> are any people who know the runtime around?
16:10 <+iant> me__: yes
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16:10 < pbunbun> multiple return value...  Didn't realise, nice
16:11 < sstangl> pbunbun: you can do the same in C by returning a struct,
but this looks prettier.
16:11 < engla> there is even automatic detection if using multiple return
value form or not for some statements
16:11 < Selar> whoa, go'll run on android?
16:11 < temoto> Because of multiple values you can use monad semantics to
handle errors and bypass correct values through pipe of functions.
16:11 -!- kaigan|work
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16:12 <+agl> Selar: the ARM port is even more experimental than the rest of
Go, but yes, so some extent.
16:12 < mmu_man> my current diff:
16:12 < skerner> temoto: Not sure what 'monad symantics' are.  Can you give
an example?
16:12 < me__> i'm working on a port to dragonfly bsd, i'd like to use
pthreads instead of the lwp_create syscall, in pkg/runtime/<os>/threads.c.
im thinking of bridging between 8c-generated code and the host calling
convention...  is there any reason you folks used clone directly?
16:12 <+aclements> temoto: True, though there's no equivalent of
do-notation, so you have to feed things through yourself.
16:12 < mmu_man> $BASH stuff shouldn't actually be needed, but it wouldn't
hurt really...
16:13 <+agl> me__: well, we don't link again libc so using pthreads wasn't
an option
16:13 <+iant> me__: the 6g/8g library goes down to the system call level, as
you see; clone is the right system call to use on GNU/Linux
16:13 < me__> sure.  i was going to link against libc.
16:13 < me__> *link the runtime against...
16:13 < me__> any reason you folks didn't do that?
16:13 <+iant> that is hard because 6g/8g use a different calling convention
16:13 <+iant> me__: gccgo does link against libc
16:13 <+agl> me__: in which case pthreads should work.  I believe that gccgo
has done that in the past and maybe still does
16:14 <+iant> yes, gccgo links against libc and uses pthreads
16:14 < temoto> skerner: i'll show some pseudocode in a minute
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16:14 < me__> other than the calling convention, which i was going to
bridge, was there any reason?
16:14 <+agl> me__: you will burn a lot of stack space of course
16:14 < me__> s/going to/considering/g
16:14 <+iant> me__: the runtime is tightly tied to threading, you would have
to make sure that continues to work
16:15 -!- Smergo [n=smergo@mail.hellstrom.st] has joined #go-nuts
16:15 < me__> iant: wait, are you the gold iant?
16:15 -!- dga [n=dga@] has joined #go-nuts
16:15 <+iant> me__: yes
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16:15 < me__> oh, thanks for that work!  and the articles on linkers &
loaders, even more.
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16:16 <+iant> you're welcome
16:16 < engla> is gccgo a bootstrapping thing?  will it become better in the
future or the other way - insignificant?
16:16 < absentia> http://www.spy.org/tmp/go_spong.jpg
16:16 <+iant> engla: gccgo is not a bootstrapping thing, it's a separate
16:16 <+iant> engla: I expect that gccgo will always stay ahead of 6g/8g in
terms of quality of the generated code
16:17 <+iant> I don't expect gccgo to go away, but we'll see
16:17 -!- lov [i=vol@kokshark.techbandits.com] has joined #go-nuts
16:17 < lov> Hi, I'm having trouble compiling go on ubuntu 9.04
16:17 -!- javarants2 [n=Adium@c-24-6-187-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit
16:17 < engla> ah ok.  but 6/8 are so much faster it is worth it I take it
16:17 -!- dajero [n=dajero@cp834233-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: 110
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16:17 < lov> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/avollmer/go/src/pkg/net'
16:17 < lov> --- FAIL: net.TestDialError #2: "dial tcp
no-such-name.google.com.:80: lookup no-such-name.google.com.  on
server misbehaving", want match for `dial tcp no-such-name.google.com.:80: lookup
no-such-name.google.com.( on .*)?: no (.*)`
16:17 -!- aef2 [n=aef@gate.kliksys.ru] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:17 <+iant> engla: yes, that's the idea
16:17 < lov> any suggestions?
16:18 <+iant> lov: those tests fail in some DNS scenarios, at that point the
compiler and libraries have been built, so you can ignore the test failure
16:18 < me__> fwiw some things were better done by kencc than gcc.
16:18 <+iant> me__: sure
16:18 < Associat0r> iant how would you write a garbage collector in Go?
16:18 < absentia> can anyone give me the 10 second skinny on why I would
want to ..  or should learn go?
16:18 < sstangl> lov: your $GOBIN should contain the executables you wanted.
16:18 -!- monov [i=5cf7d9a9@gateway/web/freenode/x-csynwzgwcbhmybtc] has joined
16:18 < monov> Hey..
16:18 <+iant> Associat0r: you would have to use the unsafe package
16:18 < lov> alright, thanks
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16:18 <+iant> absentia: see http://golang.org/
16:18 < Associat0r> iant that allows pointer arithmatic?
16:18 < devinus> are there any plans to make an LLVM backend for Go?
16:19 <+iant> Associat0r: yes, via a conversion to the unsafe.Pointer type
16:19 < sstangl> absentia: there is an hour-long tech talked linked to from
http://golang.org that discusses the reasons.
16:19 <+iant> devinus: not at present but I would like to see one; I hope
that the gccgo frontend will over time become usable by LLVM
16:19 -!- mpowers [n=Marshall@ool-4353cfd6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts
16:19 < monov> so..  what are _you_ guys using Go for?  as a simpler ruby?
faster C#? just some toy?
16:19 -!- hhg [n=hhg@hhg.to] has joined #go-nuts
16:19 <+iant> monov: it's an experiment
16:19 < Associat0r> iant and is there a way to disable the GC in some way?
16:19 -!- volker48_ [n=marcus@c-69-253-247-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit
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16:19 < harryv> monov: a simpler ruby?  wtf.
16:19 <+iant> Associat0r: not at present, but, yes, that would also be
16:19 -!- RooTer [i=rooter@87-205-66-223.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #go-nuts
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16:20 < Associat0r> iant is that planned?
16:20 <+iant> monov: we're using Go for some experimental things but nothing
in production yet
16:20 < me__> other than the hour-tech-talk, is rob pike's newsqueak google
tech talk linked?
16:20 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE506C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
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16:20 <+iant> Associat0r: yes, that will be necessary at some point, I think
16:20 < Associat0r> iant I mean I am interested in how Go can fully replace
16:20 < monov> iant: in your work in google?
16:20 < sstangl> Associat0r: I think many people are interested in fully
replacing C++ ;)
16:20 < ment> Associat0r: it isn't supposed to replace c++
16:20 -!- RayNbow [i=kirika@wlan-145-94-175-240.wlan.tudelft.nl] has quit ["When
science finally locates the center of the universe, some people will be surprised
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16:20 -!- Wezz6400 [n=Wezz6400@145-118-111-123.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #go-nuts
16:21 <+iant> monov: my work has mostly been implementing Go
16:21 < Associat0r> iant also the lack of operator overloading or at least
defining bothers me
16:21 <+iant> Associat0r: Go isn't going to replace C++ in general, it's
just an alternative
16:21 < me__> hmm, when using limbo, i found i wanted weak refs; have there
been any thoughts towards that?
16:21 < monov> iant: ok
16:21 <+iant> Associat0r: the language is not fixed in stone but I doubt Go
will ever get operator overloading
16:22 <+iant> me__: I have not heard any discussion of weak refs
16:22 < Associat0r> iant the thing is I do a lot of numerical stuff and
having to have method names for math operetors is not so nice
16:22 <+iant> Associat0r: understood; language design is always a tradeoff
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16:22 < mpowers> I'm curious about how Go achieves such awesome compile
times relative to C/C++.  Is there a quick answer for this, or a writeup of the
techniques used to improve compile speed?
16:22 < Wezz6400> Being a fan of C++ I don't mind Go being different, C++
already exists so to create something very similar would be pointless imo
16:23 <+iant> mpowers: the main reasons are the simple syntax and the
package system
16:23 < ag90> I'm curious.  Go has some amount of C interoperability.  Am I
16:23 -!- blackmagik [n=blackmag@unaffiliated/blackmagik] has joined #go-nuts
16:23 <+iant> ag90: limited but yes, see misc/cgo for an example; it's not
well documented yet
16:23 < Associat0r> iant that I understand, OCaml also made that tradeoff
16:23 <+aclements> me__: Russ and I did discuss weak refs a while back.  I
believe the conclusions was that Go needs something like weak refs.
16:23 < pbunbun> iant: So you're saying it's the language itself being easy
to compile, not just the compiler being good?
16:23 <+iant> pbunbun: the compiler is good, but, yes, the language is the
16:23 < thotypous> does anyone have an example using closures please?
16:24 < Associat0r> Wezz6400 well I don't want Go to be similair to C++, but
at least do what C++ can do
16:24 < mpowers> so there is no preprocess step in Go, i guess?
16:24 <+iant> thotypous: there are some examples in the course slides, I
think on day 2
16:24 < pbunbun> iant: So the gcc-based compiler is (or should/could be) far
faster than compiling regular C/C++?
16:24 < thotypous> iant: thanks
16:24 < albertito> is the implementation of the package system documented
somewhere (besides the code, I mean)?
16:24 <+iant> mpowers: right, no preprocessor
16:24 -!- rdz1 [n=rdezaval@fireuol.sinectis.com.ar] has left #go-nuts []
16:24 <+iant> pbunbun: yes
16:24 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #go-nuts
16:24 < hat0> sstangl, thanks - i phrased my question poorly..  any
documentation on calling to and linking to c libs?  (i likes me some go from what
i've seen..want to try my hand at building some go bindings for a little
video-game related project of mine)
16:24 -!- jorendorff [n=jorendor@c-76-22-141-17.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined
16:24 < Wezz6400> Associat0r why would you want that if that means large
tradeoffs for little functionality
16:24 < Associat0r> iant what about tail call optimization does Go do that?
16:24 <+iant> albertito: I don't think so, it's fairly straightforward
16:24 < pbunbun> Ok cool, (haven't actually downloaded it yet, when I get
time I will)
16:24 < ag90> So does that mean it is possible to bind libraries like GTK to
16:25 <+iant> hat0: there are some xamples of linking to C libs, no docs yet
I think
16:25 < albertito> iant: thanks!
16:25 <+iant> Associat0r: gccgo does it, I don't know offhand whether 6g/8g
do it
16:25 <+iant> ag90: it is possible but not currently simple
16:25 < Associat0r> Wezz6400 who said it's little functionality?
16:25 < ag90> Ok
16:25 < ag90> Thanks
16:25 <+iant> we know it is a need
16:25 < ment> thotypous: a := int(5); x := func () int { return 4 + a; }; a
= 7; fmt.Printf("%d\n", x());
16:25 <+aclements> Associat0r: 6g/8g can optimize tail calls in very, very
limited circumstances.
16:26 < thotypous> ment: thanks :D
16:26 < me__> aclements: okay, awesome.
16:26 < Associat0r> aclements iant thanks for the answers
16:26 < hat0> iant, thanks.  any tips on where i could find the examples?
16:26 < Wezz6400> Associat0r there are things in C++ which are useful only
in rare cases, which I don't mind go not having, and since you were talking about
'everything' that includes the little stuff
16:26 < albertito> and one more question: in the tech talk a work in
progress GC is mentioned.  Is it ready/available somewhere?  I took a quick peek
at the code but found only mgc0 which seems to be the mark&sweep collector
mentioned in the talk
16:26 <+iant> hat0: misc/cgo
16:26 < hhg> aclements: no plan to have an explicit become() ?
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16:26 < me__> hhg: beat me to it :)
16:26 < hat0> outstanding, thanks!
16:27 <+iant> albertito: no, the GC in progress is at the whiteboard stage,
it's not in the code
16:27 < hhg> me__: :-)
16:27 < albertito> iant: thanks again!
16:27 < me__> hhg: thinking alef?
16:27 -!- dp_ [n=dp@BAJ0325.baj.pppool.de] has joined #go-nuts
16:27 <+aclements> hhg: Not to my knowledge :)
16:27 < mmu_man> hmmm
16:27 < mmu_man> undefined reference to `waidpid'
16:27 -!- erik__ [n=erik@rrcs-71-42-227-214.sw.biz.rr.com] has left #go-nuts
16:27 < mpowers> out of curiosity, besides preprocessing, what are the
language features of say, C, which cause the most amount of "work" for the
compiler, and how does Go fix that?  Do these improvements come "free", or is
there a cost paid in complexity/readability of code?
16:27 < Associat0r> Wezz6400 well it's not just C++ that does op overloading
also asking about GC is a valid question since it's a systems language
16:28 < ment> mmu_man: hmm s/waidpid/waitpid/ maybe?
16:28 <+iant> mpowers: preprocessing a key--parsing #include headers is much
slower than reading in compiled package information
16:28 <+iant> mpowers: also Go's syntax is easier and therefore faster to
parse, notably the declaration syntax
16:28 < Wezz6400> well sure, I was just pointing out that wanting everything
C++ has appears pointless to me, not that any random feature C++ has and go
doesn't it shouldn't have
16:28 -!- GarethTheGreat [i=gareth@autopia.garethnelson.com] has joined #go-nuts
16:28 < ment> iant: how to do circular imports?
16:29 < hhg> me__: actually Newsqueak :-)
16:29 < GarethTheGreat> wow
16:29 <+iant> ment: you can't
16:29 < GarethTheGreat> this is one full channel
16:29 < mmu_man> ment ugh shrug
16:29 * mmu_man needs new glasses
16:29 < nc> i am so psyched to try out Go
16:29 < nc> but i can't get it to build for the life of me
16:29 < nc> :/
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16:30 <+iant> nc: people here may be able to help
16:30 < RooTer> nc: take ur pills and start again?
16:30 < nc> RooTer: heh
16:30 -!- pydroid [n=kenny@cm12.sigma118.maxonline.com.sg] has left #go-nuts []
16:30 <+iant> most problems are either incorrect environment variable
setting, or failure of net/http tests which can be ignored
16:31 < Associat0r> iant is the unsafe.Pointer type implemented in Go
16:31 -!- thiago_ is now known as arteofn
16:31 <+iant> Associat0r: yes, the whole unsafe package is implemented
directly by the compiler
16:31 -!- arteofn is now known as artefon
16:32 < nc> im pretty sure the problems i'm having are due to make/gmake
16:32 < nc> all of the problems i've had so far were fixed by um
16:32 < hat0> is this test failure something that can be ignored:
16:32 < hat0> --- FAIL: os_test.TestRemoveAll
16:32 < hat0> RemoveAll "_obj/_TestRemoveAll_" succeeded with chmod 0
subdirectory?(extra *os.PathError=lstat _obj/_TestRemoveAll_: no such file or
16:32 < nc> removing a conditional in a couple of the .bash files that set
the GOBIN variable, and changing make to gmake in the makefiles
16:32 < Wezz6400> I'm curious how fast go really is, there's loads of
languages out there that claim to be "nearly as fast as C++" but what 'nearly'
really means often differs quite a bit from what you might expect
16:32 <+iant> hat0: don't run the tests as root
16:33 -!- volker48 [n=marcus@c-69-253-247-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit
16:33 < artefon> iant: i just saw the go video..  it seems to be the
language i've been dreaming ;;)
16:33 < hat0> k
16:33 <+iant> Wezz6400: see test/bench/timing.log for some real timings
16:33 <+iant> Wezz6400: it will continue to improve
16:33 < mmu_man> cannot find -lm
16:33 < mmu_man> *WHO* should I slap for this ???
16:33 < nc> yoself !
16:33 < nc> lol
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16:34 < syd> hmm, anyone had this?  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/149997/
16:34 < Wezz6400> hmm I'll look into that
16:34 < mmu_man> though shallst never assume libm !
16:34 -!- robpike [n=r@c-76-21-1-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
16:34 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v robpike] by ChanServ
16:34 < ikke> if i use for verdade:=0; verdade < 1; { ...  } i get an
error saying that verdade is never used, but if I use var verdade int; for
verdade=0; verdade <1; { ...  } it works fine
16:34 -!- maennj [n=maannj@dyn-209-2-208-43.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #go-nuts
16:34 -!- p2hicy [i=p2hicy@unaffiliated/p2hicy] has joined #go-nuts
16:34 < vomjom> so Go is using twice as much memory as i expect.  i have a
struct that's 24 bytes and i allocate an array of 40 million of them, but each one
instance seems to take about 47 bytes
16:34 < ikke> sounds weird to me
16:34 < hhg> robpike: any plans to have an explicit Newsqueak-like become()
in Go ?
16:34 < Tarun> When is the windows port expected for go?  (haven't tried
using cygwin yet)
16:34 < ment> ikke: you declared verdade twice
16:34 <+iant> ikke: use _ if you want a variable you aren't going to use
16:35 < ment> ikke: first in var ...; then again in loop body
16:35 <+iant> ikke: wait, I see--that may be a bug--can you open an issue?
16:35 < ment> s/body/header
16:35 < vomjom> anyone know where that extra memory is coming from?
16:35 <+robpike> hhg: we've talked about it but no plans.  become wasn't a
function - it's just return
16:35 < ikke> iant sure
16:35 <+iant> vomjom: may be GC overhead, hard to know
16:35 <+iant> ikke: thanks
16:35 < nc> hmm
16:35 -!- xspager [n=dlemos@rjfw01.calandra.com.br] has joined #go-nuts
16:35 < Wezz6400> I like C++ for its power and speed, but easier languages
often allow for a much higher productivity and faster development.  Often C++ is
still used for its speed, in time it will be interesting to see if go will change
that a bit
16:35 < nc> is there a flag you can pass to gmake forcing it to show you the
full path of the Makefile it is reading when it gives you errors?
16:35 < nc> i.e.
16:35 < nc> Makefile:30: *** missing separator (did you mean TAB instead of
8 spaces?).  Stop.
16:36 <+iant> Tarun: I would like to see a Windows port but we're not
working on one
16:36 -!- p2hicy [i=p2hicy@unaffiliated/p2hicy] has left #go-nuts []
16:36 * dj_tjerk slaps Wezz6400
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16:36 < Wezz6400> lol what?
16:36 < dj_tjerk> hi
16:36 -!- likewhoa [n=likewhoa@ool-45717734.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts
16:36 < hhg> robpike: yeah, sorry, "become statement" I meant to say :-)
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16:37 < Wezz6400> ahhh devschuur as well :p
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16:40 < vomjom> hmm, nevermind, i figured out what the overhead was :P
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16:41 < vomjom> apparently encoding each object with gob adds an equivalent
size object to memory
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16:42 < ikke> iant nevermind, was my mistake
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16:45 < Associat0r> iant if the compiler handles the Unsafe package then
wouldn't that mean Go does allow pointer arithmetic?
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16:46 <+iant> Associat0r: it's a matter of semantics, I guess; Go does not
allow pointer arithmetic--unless you import "unsafe"
16:46 <+iant> we assume that people who import "unsafe" know what they are
16:47 -!- MixMix [n=mixmix55@86-41-204-13-dynamic.b-ras1.lmk.limerick.eircom.net]
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16:47 < Associat0r> iant it's kinda how F# does it
16:47 <+iant> in environments where safety is paramount, import "unsafe"
could be prohibited
16:47 -!- maennj [n=maannj@dyn-209-2-208-43.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit []
16:47 < StylusEater> +1 for go...thx kevin
16:48 < Associat0r> iant but then F# unsafe package implements it with
inline IL
16:48 < KirkMcDonald> No slice assignment?
16:48 < Associat0r> iant but it's nice to hear Go has it when it's needed
16:48 -!- bj_990 [n=bj@] has joined #go-nuts
16:48 <+iant> Associat0r: yes, it's sometimes necessary
16:48 -!- camedee [i=40ecf5f3@gateway/web/freenode/x-jmqrnyucmzckzynz] has joined
16:48 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: correct, no slice assignment
16:48 < bj_990> go looks great..  :)
16:49 < bj_990> so far
16:49 -!- cod [n=cod@KD124214136122.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts
16:49 -!- camfex [n=d@] has joined #go-nuts
16:49 < JBeshir> How do you extend arrays?
16:49 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Is this considered a deficiency?
16:49 -!- _Lucretia_ [n=munkee@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia] has joined #go-nuts
16:49 < nc> gah i am dumbfounded
16:49 < JBeshir> And how do you compare strings for equality?
16:49 < dj_tjerk> might i ask why it's "func (p *myType) get() int {}" and
"func (p myInteger) get() int {}" , i.e.  why is there no * in the latter
16:49 < JBeshir> I'm trying ==, but it doesn't seem to work.
16:49 -!- DrWhax_ [n=DrWhax@dhcp-077-248-216-065.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts
16:50 * JBeshir has the string printing out, and is comparing it to a constant
which appears to match the printed version, but it doesn't...  work.
16:50 <+iant> JBeshir: see pkg/container/vector for one approach
16:50 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: the language is not set in stone but we're not
discussing slice assignment at present; it tends to hide a complex operation in a
simple looking statement
16:50 -!- comatose_kid [n=anonymou@c-24-6-139-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit []
16:50 < mmu_man> go.y:970.9-973.9: warning: rule useless in parser due to
conflicts: non_expr_type: '(' non_expr_type ')'
16:50 < mmu_man> ./mkbuiltin: line 18: 8g: command not found
16:51 < mmu_man> hmm...
16:51 <+iant> JBeshir: == does work for strings, not sure what is happening
in your case
16:51 < _Lucretia_> or you could stop trying make C safe and use Ada
instead, it already is by design, has concurrency, has realtime, has distributed
capabilities, has OO, is readable, is scalable, keeps you out of the debugger
(most of the time if the app is well designed and not slapped together like most C
code is), etc.  Just a thought, eh Google!?
16:51 <+iant> mmu_man: make sure $GOBIN is on PATH
16:51 <+iant> _Lucretia_: Ada is fine, Go is an alternative
16:51 < _Lucretia_> it's just yet another attempt to make C safe
16:52 < me__> somewhat different synchronization models..
16:52 -!- Wezz6400_ [n=Wezz6400@145-118-111-123.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #go-nuts
16:52 < _Lucretia_> C syntax isn't the most readable
16:52 <+iant> _Lucretia_: I think it has other interesting features, myself
16:52 < Associat0r> iant it might be handy to mention the unsafe package in
the FAQ, so some C people don't dissmiss it outright for lack of ptr arithmetic
16:52 < nc> ada is very ugly though
16:52 < nc> in my opinion
16:52 < _Lucretia_> nc, wrong
16:52 < ment> _Lucretia_: what's your point?
16:52 < nc> well
16:52 * bj_990 lol at ada
16:52 < nc> its an opinion
16:52 < nc> so its not wrong
16:52 < KirkMcDonald> iant: I assume there is some memcpy-equivalent I'm
supposed to use?
16:52 < mpurcell|bed> _Lucretia_: go awa troll
16:52 < mpurcell|bed> away*
16:52 -!- frodenius [i=frod@unaffiliated/frodenius] has joined #go-nuts
16:53 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: there is a memcpy equivalent, but probably not
for slice assignment; we expect people to write a loop
16:53 -!- mpurcell|bed is now known as mpurcell|afk
16:53 <+iant> note that you can take a slice of a slice
16:53 < _Lucretia_> not troling, just making a point
16:53 <+iant> No language flamewars please
16:53 <+iant> every language has its place, otherwise nobody would use it
16:53 < KirkMcDonald> iant: What I really want to do is concatenate two
slices, receiving a third slice.
16:53 -!- Wezz6400 [n=Wezz6400@145-118-111-123.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit []
16:53 < mpurcell|afk> _Lucretia_: your point is opinion and is not wanted.
please leave, help, or idle.  kthx
16:53 -!- Wezz6400_ is now known as Wezz6400
16:54 < temoto> skerner: hello?
16:54 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: there is no good way to do that other than to
use a loop, sorry
16:54 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Is the idiomatic way to do this to allocate a
new array, loop over both slices, and copy each element into this array?
16:54 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Okay.
16:54 -!- freenose [n=freenose@] has joined #go-nuts
16:54 < temoto> Hello Kirk.
16:54 < ment> for j := range x.Iter() { ...  } is it possible to specify
type of j in for loop header?  (as x is container with interface {} elements)
16:54 < KirkMcDonald> Hello.
16:55 < zLuke_> Any thoughts on a package that implements something similar
to parallel-python for distributing goroutines?
16:55 < _Lucretia_> balls to this, "j" as a var name, fuck me
16:55 -!- _Lucretia_ [n=munkee@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia] has left #go-nuts
16:55 < mmu_man> iant sure it is
16:55 < JBeshir> Oooh, I have a good question.
16:55 <+iant> ment: you would need to declare j as a var with a type, and
use = instead of :=
16:55 < JBeshir> Is there any plan for implementing something similar to
CPAN, or gems, or the various equivalents in other languages?
16:56 -!- c_korn [n=korn@Xbff5.x.pppool.de] has left #go-nuts ["Software you want.
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16:56 < JBeshir> Not essentially the software so much as a central
repository/collection of modules.
16:56 -!- jimmy_ [n=rodrigo@] has joined #go-nuts
16:56 < temoto> Yeah what about distributing Go packages?
16:56 -!- dp_ [n=dp@BAJ0325.baj.pppool.de] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:56 < zLuke_> JBeshir: I agree -- CPAN did wonders (does) for perl
16:56 <+iant> we haven't gotten as far as thinking about CPAN
16:56 < temoto> Latter Haskell experiance proves that it must be
16:56 < JBeshir> Okay.
16:56 -!- jkimball5 [i=8930d809@gateway/web/freenode/x-fipwdngahyqhpcax] has
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16:56 <+iant> I'm off, back in a while
16:56 < skerner> temoto: Hi.
16:57 < JBeshir> Decentralised distribution already exists
16:57 < JBeshir> First, you get a package, then you give it to someone else
16:57 < engla> argh.  gccgo compile ends with ‘-fsplit-stack’ is not
supported by this compiler configuration
16:57 < temoto> That's not organized.
16:57 < kfx> hahaha what about haskell 'proves' anything about software
16:57 -!- bobappleyard1 [n=bob@cpc4-macc1-0-0-cust170.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has
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16:57 < JBeshir> CPAN's neatness is its centralisation to make all that code
available for everyone.
16:57 < mmu_man> ah 8g is here now, odd
16:57 < jorendorff> "A send on a channel happens before the corresponding
receive from that channel completes." In practice, this means (a) the compiler
generally can't move reads/writes across go commands, and (b) the platform has to
be pretty cache-coherent.  Right?
16:57 -!- telemachus [n=telemach@] has joined #go-nuts
16:58 < temoto> skerner: so i tried to make a monad semantics example.  It's
ugly as hell, and it should not work, but it should give the idea.
16:58 < me__> src/cmd/cc has acid; has it been tried / does it work with 8g
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16:59 < telemachus> if I'm having a duplicate of the log.TestAllLog problem
is it best to just add that test to the NOTEST list?
16:59 < bobappleyard1> how do i read a (utf8) char from a buffer?
16:59 -!- maragato [n=robteix@nat/intel/x-xvdcxwaklzripjnq] has left #go-nuts
16:59 < temoto> skerner: basically, the idea is that each call checks for
error and calls next function only if there was no error in previous.
17:00 < dj_tjerk> iant > might i ask why the "Go for C++ Programmers"
guide says "func (p *myType) get() int {}" and "func (p myInteger) get() int {}" ,
i.e.  why is there no * in the latter
17:00 -!- furbage [n=furbage@78-105-127-75.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit []
17:00 < KirkMcDonald> dj_tjerk: Methods don't have to be on pointers.
17:00 -!- furbage [n=furbage@78-105-127-75.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined
17:00 < sstangl> me__: I don't believe so; they were talking about making a
new debugger that has little to do with acid.
17:01 < skerner> temoto: Neat.
17:01 < me__> sstangl: cool.  were they talking in here about it?
17:01 -!- fabrianchi [n=fabrianc@unaffiliated/fabrianchi] has joined #go-nuts
17:01 < temoto> skerner: But without syntactic sugar that's totally ugly.
17:01 < sstangl> me__: I asked robpike about it.
17:01 < me__> nice.
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17:02 < nc> this is absurd
17:02 < blackmagik> iant, the curly braces must go :)
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17:04 < jkimball5> yeah curly braces are always ugly
17:05 -!- octoploid [n=octoploi@77-23-127-119-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined
17:05 < jeromatron> so does go support list comprehensions?  couldn't find
it in the docs...
17:05 < me__> go could have begin/end instead.  </snark>
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17:07 < sstangl> me__: grumble
17:07 < blackmagik> me__, or just end.  i think the parser should know where
to begin.  then again they seem to be advertising super fast compilation times so
maybe curly braces aid in quicker parsing
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17:08 < sstangl> jeromatron: it doesn't support list comprehensions, as far
as I know.
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17:08 < temoto> blackmagik: i was all complaining about complex syntax until
i read that some of that is made intentionally to simplify parser and speed up
17:09 < blackmagik> temoto, yea i thought so
17:09 < temoto> That's not high level language anyway.
17:10 < jeromatron> sstangl - tx - dang :( one of my favorite features of
python and others...  Go is still young though...  at least they have conditionals
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17:10 < ikke> my first go code
17:10 < ikke> http://pastebin.com/f44451899
17:10 < jkimball5> on a modern system, the speed difference would be
marginal if a different exists at all between parsing "begin" and '{'
17:10 < ikke> :)
17:10 < me__> jkimball5: i was being silly, i've been writing a lot of vhdl
off late.
17:10 < melba> lol maze
17:10 < engla> what is the go animal?  a gopher?
17:10 -!- pierron [n=pierron@88-122-99-206.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined
17:11 < temoto> ikke what is iota?
17:11 < me__> a mutated bunny from outer space.
17:11 < sstangl> it happens occasionally.
17:11 < jkimball5> me__: congrats.  haven't used it, but I know it's based
on Ada so it has something going for it.
17:11 < ikke> temoto http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Iota
17:11 < octoploid> If your're editing in vim ":silent ! gofmt -w %" is nice.
It will reformat the currently opened file.
17:11 < Associat0r> jkimball5 this
17:11 -!- Bytecode_ [n=bytecode@97-124-183-166.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
17:11 < temoto> ikke, thanks.
17:12 < Associat0r> jkimball5 that's what it's based it
17:12 < StylusEater> ikke: need to remove the ; from import line I believe
17:12 < jkimball5> Associat0r: what are you talking about?
17:13 < Associat0r> jkimball5 limbo language
17:13 -!- a_robbins [n=alex@cpe-76-185-7-190.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
17:13 < jkimball5> okay, but how does it relate to VHDL?
17:13 -!- jlouis [i=jlouis@] has joined #go-nuts
17:13 < Associat0r> jimmy_: Limbo relates to Go
17:13 < Associat0r> jkimball5 I mean
17:14 < ikke> StylusEater works fine with the ;
17:14 < StylusEater> ikke: hrm..my bad
17:14 < jkimball5> that's cute that they already updated the wiki to show Go
as being influenced by it
17:14 < sstangl> Associat0r: it was a joke about poor syntax choices.
17:14 * jkimball5 masturbates a bit more to Google's logo
17:15 < a_robbins> Having trouble installing go.  At the ./all.bash step I
get this: http://pastebin.com/m3396f26 (using ubuntu 9.04)
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17:15 < sstangl> a_robbins: those are just tests; the programs should have
built successfully.  Check your $GOBIN.
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17:16 < rog> is there a canonical way to do discriminated unions?
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17:16 < a_robbins> oh, I didn't set GOBIN since it said it was optional in
the docs
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17:17 < rog> (e.g.  a channel of one of several different message types)
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17:17 -!- aaront [n=aaront@unaffiliated/aaront] has quit ["And that's all he
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17:17 < a_robbins> sstangl: I do have all the programs in my bin folder,
17:17 < nc> 8==e
17:17 -!- codehai [n=codehai@xdsl-78-34-34-207.netcologne.de] has joined #go-nuts
17:18 < a_robbins> sstangl: is it an issue that my tests aren't passing?
17:18 < sstangl> a_robbins: yes; check whether bugs have been filed against
your particular case here: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/list
17:18 < sstangl> a_robbins: if not, it would be useful to open a new issue
17:18 < Selar> woot, hello.go works
17:19 < a_robbins> sstangl: ok, thanks for your help
17:19 < jkimball5> we don't have bugs, we have issues!
17:19 -!- rafaelmartins [n=rafael@unaffiliated/rafaelmartins/x-162351] has joined
17:19 < sstangl> "oopses" is also cutesy.
17:19 < Brakkvatn> jkimball5: You have an issue
17:19 < nc> hrm
17:19 -!- dataviruset [n=dataviru@90-230-45-9-no55.tbcn.telia.com] has joined
17:20 * jkimball5 is a noob
17:20 * dataviruset is reading the news...
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17:21 < weggpod> hy all
17:21 < dataviruset> hy
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17:21 < weggpod> i discover this language today and i'm very interesting
17:22 < dataviruset> same here
17:22 < jkimball5> i like to think that i'm interesting
17:22 < frodenius> glad you all are interesting people
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17:22 < r00ttap_> yes you are very interesting
17:22 < jkimball5> but Ada programmers are decidedly not interesting in the
programming world
17:22 < frodenius> hell the world would be so boring without you
17:22 -!- dpb9cpu [n=dpb@ip65-46-56-98.z56-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined
17:22 < r00ttap_> HAHA
17:22 < weggpod> but what think really google about it
17:23 < r00ttap_> okay, now I'm confused
17:23 < frodenius> erm
17:23 < frodenius> probably google thinks go is superb
17:23 -!- nero76 [n=nero76@p4FC554E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
17:23 < r00ttap_> google good think is it?
17:23 < frodenius> what?
17:24 < r00ttap_> exactly
17:24 < Zaba_> r00ttap_, are you talking in the reverse polish notation?
17:24 -!- NoobFukaire1 [n=tmccrary@d199-74-115-65.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined
17:24 < jkimball5> google also thought python was superb
17:24 < dataviruset> python sux
17:24 < weggpod> they have began to realise project with it?
17:24 -!- epalm [n=epalm@utl-192-234.library.utoronto.ca] has joined #go-nuts
17:24 < jkimball5> given google's history of other programming related
stuff, i'd bet this language changes every 4 days
17:25 < annodomini> weggpod:
17:25 < jkimball5> you need to use a standardized, ISO/ANSI language to
really be in a good position
17:25 -!- comatose_kid [n=anonymou@adsl-76-254-61-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net]
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17:25 < ajray> i'm good with that as long as it keeps improving
17:25 < vegai> yes, please don't let it stagnate.  We have enough dead
17:25 -!- gnukid [n=user@] has joined #go-nuts
17:25 < jkimball5> languages aren't dead, they're *stable*
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17:26 < dataviruset> python's dead and unstable
17:26 < jkimball5> not to say there aren't dead languages, but what you're
not refering to truly *deaD* languages
17:26 < annodomini> Yes, you want a language to get stable eventually, but
Go is at a very early stage and I'd be glad for it to be in flux for a while.
17:26 -!- comatose_kid [n=anonymou@adsl-76-254-61-108.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net]
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17:26 < jkimball5> annodomini: right, we should wait until it's standardized
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17:27 < annodomini> Well, depends on what you mean by "we".  If you mean
early adopters who want to play with something new, then you should use it and
improve it now.
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17:27 -!- a_robbins [n=alex@cpe-76-185-7-190.tx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Go is
building correctly now"]
17:27 -!- aishumoorthy [n=aishwary@] has left #go-nuts []
17:27 < annodomini> If you mean for deploying code, no, it's probably not
ready for doing serious production-level projects quite yet.
17:27 -!- musty [n=musty@unaffiliated/musty] has joined #go-nuts
17:27 < musty> Hai
17:27 < jkimball5> this notion that languages should be in beta is a very
new concept and is an inherently wrong philosophy
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17:27 < jkimball5> google thinks everything should be a turd, dump it on the
world and make them help you fix it
17:28 < frodenius> lol
17:28 < tsuru`> "worse is better"
17:28 -!- mog [n=mog@c-68-62-169-247.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
17:28 < annodomini> Huh?  What successful languages have never changed since
being released?
17:28 < jkimball5> you might not believe it, but there are languages out
there that were actually *architected* by real software engineers and computer
scientists, not some fresh out of college nerd at google
17:28 < weggpod> annodomini, cobol ?
17:28 < vomjom> haha
17:28 < frodenius> dynamic languages have been developed with the community
17:28 < jkimball5> annodomini: It's how they change, not that they change
17:28 < tetha> jkimball5: and no one uses them?
17:29 < vomjom> rob pike and ken thompson are fresh out of college nerds,
apparently :P
17:29 -!- Luke_ [n=luke_d@pool-74-109-213-93.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined
17:29 < jkimball5> tetha: sure because Go users don't like *quality*
17:29 < annodomini> vomjom: haha
17:29 < frodenius> yes, i met them yesterday ad standford
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17:29 < onox> Ada ftw!
17:29 -!- onox [n=onox@kalfjeslab.demon.nl] has left #go-nuts []
17:29 < tetha> jkimball5: or python users?  or ruby users?  ...  and so on
17:29 < frodenius> haskell!!
17:29 < Wezz6400> jkimball5 why did you come in here only to bitch about go
17:29 < tsuru`> REPL!!!
17:30 < Wezz6400> do you really think anyone is interested?
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17:30 < kfx> jkimball5: which 'fresh out of college' nerd would we be
talking about here
17:30 < kfx> I'm just curious
17:30 < frodenius> don't feed the troll
17:30 * Libster feeds jkimball5
17:31 < kfx> thanks for regulating my behavior buddy
17:31 < jkimball5> nom nom nom
17:31 < kfx> I forgot you were in charge
17:31 < Libster> i was trying to troll this channel last night but i didn't
do a god job thanks for filling in for me
17:31 < frodenius> lol
17:31 < Wezz6400> with over 400 users now, this channel needs ops
17:31 -!- dajero [n=dajero@82-169-246-141.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #go-nuts
17:31 < Brakkvatn> OP PLZ!!!11111oneoneone
17:31 < Bytecode_> i'm having an odd problem with my net test
17:31 < reppie> everybody trolls all the time, nowadays
17:31 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@] has quit [Read error: 110
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17:31 < Libster> i should be op
17:31 < annodomini> I'm interested in why switch and if statements include
initialization; wouldn't it be simpler and clearer to just do that on the previous
17:31 < Libster> i am impartial
17:31 < frodenius> Bytecode_: everyone has it
17:32 -!- Luke_ [n=luke_d@pool-74-109-213-93.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has left
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17:32 < Libster> i will ban everyone without personal bias
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17:32 < no_mind> can I haz ops too ?
17:32 < Wezz6400> I'm impartial as well, I hate everyone :p
17:32 < Bytecode_> Libster: good, because I have very strong personal bias
17:32 < jkimball5> i'm just trying to convince you let google prove their
own language and quit being a bunch of sheep Wezz6400
17:32 * jkimball5 looks directly at Wezz6400
17:32 < jkimball5> troll my ass
17:33 < Libster> google sux
17:33 < kfx> jkimball5: how long have you been out of college
17:33 < blackmagik> with over 400 people present in the channel for a fresh
language that's really good.  when was it first released?
17:33 < Wezz6400> jkimball5 I'd say you could say the same thing in a much
more friendly and constructive manner, thus contributing way more than doing it
this way
17:33 < kfx> if it's longer than ken thompson or rob pike then I'll accept
your weird-ass ranting
17:33 < jessta> annodomini: because you want things scoped to the if/switch
17:33 < frodenius> blackmagik: yesterday
17:33 < Wezz6400> Saying it like this is counterproductive to the goal you
say you have
17:33 < Libster> uh
17:33 < annodomini> jessta: Ah, OK. Thanks.
17:33 < jkimball5> Wezz6400: given your first comment to me, i'd say you're
17:33 -!- dustycarver_ is now known as electronoob
17:33 < Libster> i think it's mor eimpressive how long you were IN college
17:33 < Libster> and academia
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17:34 -!- tuples_ [i=55006258@gateway/web/freenode/x-umqvsejaxjmviimm] has joined
17:34 < frodenius> yeah, how you needed 4 years for your bachelor thesis?
17:34 < kfx> I'm wondering if jkimball5 has googled either of those names
17:34 < tuples_> how do I compile a new package and include it?
17:34 < kfx> also wondering if his complete lack of relevant information
extends to other statements he makes
17:34 < jkimball5> hmm?  which names?
17:34 < frodenius> :)
17:34 < bj_990> it took me 5 years to get a 4 year degree..  :)
17:34 < blackmagik> frodenius, cool.  i usually have my head handed to me
when using irc numbers as a metric but it's no doubt Go could push past Scala (for
e.g.  much faster)
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17:35 < kfx> jkimball5: ken thompson, rob pike.  are they fresh out of
17:35 < temoto> Thompson too?
17:36 < three-f-jeff> Oh yeah.  Ken Thompson too.
17:36 < KirkMcDonald> Oh, interesting.  The builtin types aren't actually
reserved words.
17:36 < kfx> http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html#history
17:36 < jkimball5> no, but i doubt they had anything to do with Go
17:36 < kfx> jkimball5: your doubts are wrong
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17:37 < temoto> I start to think that jkimball5 is a bot put here to keep up
the crowd chatting.
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17:37 -!- pdallago [i=45b58846@gateway/web/freenode/x-xqaaekfgtvqilqbc] has joined
17:37 < kfx> temoto: I hope the bot is written in go
17:37 < jkimball5> lol they should probably be fired then.
17:37 < jkimball5> "exceptions and generics are still an open issue"
17:37 < jkimball5> good thing they carefully thought this stuff through
before publishing it
17:37 < three-f-jeff> jkimball5: google "release early, release often"
17:38 < three-f-jeff> It's a new language.  It's only been in development
for two years.
17:38 -!- Medliwork [n=Medlir@adsl-76-252-78-16.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net] has
joined #go-nuts
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17:38 < kfx> with any luck go will never have generics or exceptions
17:38 -!- mjl- [n=none@knaagkever.ueber.net] has joined #go-nuts
17:38 < Wezz6400> you might not agree with what they're doing, but that
doesn't mean they're just messing about
17:38 < jkimball5> yes because exceptions and generics are so awful
17:38 < jessta> jkimball5: I'm pretty sure they've been thinking it through
for the last 30 years
17:38 < three-f-jeff> For that matter, go checkout K&R 1st edition and then
try looking at some of the Unix V6 sources.
17:39 < kfx> programmers who rely on them generally are
17:39 -!- MarkAtwood [n=matwood@gorf.tangent.org] has joined #go-nuts
17:39 < blackmagik> my first impression is that a language like Go is
needed.  i like C for its minimalism but a little more is needed.
17:39 < itrekkie> hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone knew of or is
working on some sort of build system, or maybe even just a "standard" Makefile
17:39 -!- pavlakis [n=pavlakis@wlan-146-227-104-150.dmu.ac.uk] has left #go-nuts
17:39 < tuples_> how do I compile a new package and include it?  foo.go
"package foo"...  then "import "foo";" but it says can't find import: foo
17:39 < ajray> tuples_: have you built foo.8 yet?
17:39 -!- emet [n=emet@unaffiliated/emet] has joined #go-nuts
17:39 < tuples_> I have built foo.6
17:39 -!- int-e [n=noone@] has joined #go-nuts
17:39 < ajray> and you're importing "./foo" ? or "foo"?
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17:40 < emet> holy crap
17:40 < three-f-jeff> (Personally, I don't see the need for exceptions when
you have tuple returns)
17:40 -!- vcgomes [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #go-nuts
17:40 < rog> close(c), cool
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17:40 < tuples_> ajray: using "./foo" tells me "undefined: Foo"
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17:41 < rog> defer too, mmm
17:41 < tuples_> but it's definitely defined ...  type Foo struct {...}
17:41 -!- dibb [n=dibb@ashera.openend.se] has joined #go-nuts
17:41 < bobappleyard1> foo.Foo?
17:41 < itrekkie> wouldn't foo be defined in package.Foo?
17:41 < tuples_> oh oh oh.
17:41 -!- wcr [n=wcr@unaffiliated/warcrime] has joined #go-nuts
17:42 < tuples_> itrekkie: thanks so much
17:42 < tuples_> !
17:42 < nc> package.Poo
17:42 < nc> lol
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17:42 < itrekkie> I had the same problem fro a while, was irritating ;)
17:43 < tuples_> itrekkie: Yes, but it's all starting to make sense!
17:43 < mmu_man> bcgen(Node *n, int true)
17:43 -!- mtrapr [n=dorian@82-35-106-178.cable.ubr06.dals.blueyonder.co.uk] has
joined #go-nuts
17:43 < scriptdevil> The syntax is starting to feel natural already :D
17:43 -!- prip [n=_prip@host234-124-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has
joined #go-nuts
17:43 < mmu_man> hmmmm some ppl should be slapped on public place
17:43 < temoto> Either i do something wrong, or this program doesn't scale
to CPU cores.  http://codepad.org/24vLzZKL
17:44 -!- pdallago [i=45b58846@gateway/web/freenode/x-xqaaekfgtvqilqbc] has quit
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17:44 < mmu_man> was wondering why some syntax error before '1'
17:44 < scriptdevil> temoto: Am i confused.  i in both loops
17:45 < scriptdevil> temoto: Shouldn't that be j or k or something?
17:45 < ment> temoto: put fmt.Printf("x\n"); in the beginning of busy()
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17:45 < Selar> i <3 the plan9 refs
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17:46 < temoto> scriptdevil: it works.  I guess it uses proper i.
17:46 < scriptdevil> temoto: Sorry.  I forgot that closures were in it.  My
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17:47 -!- uptown [n=jason@h-64-105-162-139.sttnwaho.static.covad.net] has joined
17:47 < mmu_man> hmm why would true map to TRUE which is 1 in this case...
17:47 < mmu_man> odd
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17:49 < itrekkie> has anyone gotten the -I flag to work in 6g?  I'm trying
to store objects in a separate directory, but every time, it's an import not found
17:49 < uriel> reminder, there is a subreddit dedicated to go:
17:49 -!- lasko [n=lasko@] has joined #go-nuts
17:49 * uriel just found there that there are SDL bindings for go already
17:49 < temoto> ment: doesn't help.  If i put two prints one at start and
one just before ch<-y, then i see "busy stop" lines with a huge delay.
17:49 < temoto> Probably delay is all time required to run busy().
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17:51 < int-e> can somebody explain how the memory model guarantees that in
a = "hello world"; c <- 0; the write to a /happens before/ sending to the
channel?  The examples say so, but I can't find a corresponding definition.  At
the same time the specification makes clear that statements in a single function
are not ordered by /happens before/ in general.
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17:52 < mmu_man> /work/golang/go/src/cmd/8g/cgen.c:1024: conflicting types
for `sgen'
17:52 < mmu_man> /work/golang/go/src/cmd/8g/gg.h:103: previous declaration
of `sgen'
17:52 -!- aho [n=nya@e179090156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
17:52 < mmu_man> int vs int32 ...
17:52 -!- nddrylliog [n=nddrylli@tsf-wpa-2-5004.epfl.ch] has left #go-nuts
17:52 * InLoveWithGoogle lol
17:53 -!- MaCkeR [n=MaCkeR@] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"]
17:53 < aho> is ARM supported?
17:53 -!- cod [n=cod@KD124214136122.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."]
17:53 < vomjom> yes
17:53 < aho> ace
17:53 < KirkMcDonald> I found an error in the lexical docs.
17:53 -!- sharpner [n=sharpner@dslb-088-065-034-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined
17:53 < musty> KirkMcDonald, cool!
17:53 < KirkMcDonald> break default func interface select
17:53 < KirkMcDonald> case defer go map struct
17:53 < KirkMcDonald> chan else goto package switch
17:53 < KirkMcDonald> const fallthrough if range type
17:54 < KirkMcDonald> Ack
17:54 < KirkMcDonald> Stupid clipboard.
17:54 < InLoveWithGoogle> Google is going to dominate the internet, soon..
17:54 < r00ttap_> soon?
17:54 < ment> temoto: so between each busy stop is an equal time delay?
17:54 < m0rra> why do you think they aren't?
17:54 < KirkMcDonald> I meant to paste: decimal_lit = "0" | ( "1" ...  "9" )
{ decimal_digit } .
17:54 < KirkMcDonald> That is how that should read.
17:55 < int-e> I also wonder how concurrent calls to l.Unlock() and l.Lock()
are numbered, but I guess there's an implicit sequencing point at the point the
mutex/semaphore is actuall taken/released/incremented/decremented.
17:55 < aho> KirkMcDonald, no...  it's a stupid client.  a good client won't
submit your message if it contains a pasted newline character
17:55 -!- fhs [n=fhs@pool-72-89-195-252.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined
17:55 < temoto> ment: yup.
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17:55 < KirkMcDonald> aho: irssi does this to some extent.
17:55 -!- muckel [n=Christia@ip-94-79-146-96.unitymediagroup.de] has joined
17:55 < KirkMcDonald> aho: But it didn't catch that one for some reason.
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17:56 < albertito> KirkMcDonald: iirc ircii protects from pastes >= 5
lines or so, I think 4 is under the limit
17:56 < Zaba_> KirkMcDonald, there's an option to set how many lines irssi
will ask you about
17:57 < wcr> When was Go officially announced?
17:57 -!- Ina [n=Ina@dsl-087-195-206-242.solcon.nl] has joined #go-nuts
17:57 * Ina waves
17:57 < temoto> wcr: youtube video was yesterday.
17:57 < ment> temoto: is the example you post earlier still relevant?
17:57 < wcr> and when was this chan created :D
17:57 -!- dotsintacks [n=a@digsby05.rit.edu] has joined #go-nuts
17:58 < temoto> ment: yes, i want to find out how to scale to CPU cores so
17:58 < Rob_Russell> so it looks like 6g *.go doesn't do what one might
expect...  time to rework the Makefie
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17:58 < swamytk> hello world in c (a.out) is just 8K, whereas 8.out in go is
581K.  why it is so?
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17:59 < vomjom> swamytk, it's statically linked
17:59 < jessta> swamytk: static linking
17:59 < bj_990> maybe the garbage collection?
17:59 -!- drusepth` [n=drusepth@] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
17:59 < swamytk> swamytk@mediacenter:~/workspace/go$ file 8.out
17:59 < swamytk> 8.out: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1
(SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
17:59 < temoto> bj_990: garbage collection doesn't take 600KB.
17:59 < Zaba_> swamytk, ldd it
17:59 < vomjom> swamytk, ldd 8.out
18:00 < bj_990> it does in java..  waka waka
18:00 < bj_990> ok bad joke
18:01 < swamytk> but, why file command shows it as dynamically linked?
18:01 < ment> temoto: that's weird.  but all the "busy in" are printed out
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18:01 < temoto> ment: yup.
18:01 < Zaba_> swamytk, well, actually, there's a linker flag that makes it
show up statically linked---but it doesn't change anything else
18:02 < daganev> is go considered a server language?
18:02 <+kaib> daganev: yep
18:02 * cvanvliet is upset Jkimball is not here anymore, and leaves channel
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18:02 < NaN> I wish go was designed for distributed computing...
18:02 < temoto> kaib: could you explain why my goroutines don't scale to CPU
18:02 < swamytk> Zaba_, thanks.  how can i compile go program with
dynamically linked?
18:03 < temoto> http://codepad.org/24vLzZKL
18:03 < ment> temoto: http://codepad.org/BW9wkM75
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18:03 < glewis> For that SDL example, if I "make sdl", it says: "sdl.go:8:
fatal error: can't find import: C" - any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
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18:04 <+kaib> temoto: GOMAXPROCS=4
18:04 < musty> Is there a tarball of the Go install or something?
18:04 <+kaib> temoto: or some higher value.
18:05 < temoto> ment: that does print more stuff, but doesn't scale :)
18:05 < bobappleyard1> uriel: making a submission to that subreddit
18:06 < uriel> bobappleyard1: cool
18:06 < temoto> kaib: yeah!  That helped.
18:06 < temoto> kaib: so default is 1?
18:06 -!- john__ [n=john@bas2-toronto01-1177673674.dsl.bell.ca] has joined
18:06 < temoto> ment: environment variable GOMAXPROCS helped.
18:06 -!- mutilator [n=muti@2607:fbd0:10:1:b4ad:553f:ea66:ae14] has joined
18:06 <+kaib> temoto: correct.
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18:07 < temoto> kaib: thanks.  This is awesome.  Go is a better Cilk.
18:07 < MarkBao> yeah, there you go
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18:07 < mmu_man> gopack: confused in pkg data near <<h>>
18:07 < mmu_man> gopack grc _obj/math.a _go_.8
18:07 < mmu_man> gopack: write error: No space left on device
18:07 < mmu_man> hmm...
18:08 < Associat0r> kaib can the FAQ and Go for C++ programmers be updated
to mention http://golang.org/pkg/unsafe/ ?
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18:09 < rog> what package does conversion from decimal string to int in go?
18:09 <+kaib> Associat0r: the omission might be on purpose ..  :-)
18:09 < rog> anyone know?
18:09 < mmu_man> float.c:7 overflow in constant
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18:09 < mmu_man> hmm
18:09 < bj_990> im a bit confused ..  usually when there is garbage
collection, there are virtual machines....  how does gc work with go...  any
18:09 <+kaib> Associat0r: if you want to integrate with hardware a better
approach is to use one of the assemblers.
18:09 -!- Bao [n=bao@h-200-46.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts
18:09 < vomjom> rog, maybe bignum?
18:10 < vomjom> rog, it has an IntFromString func
18:10 < gcarrier> how can one build small binaries?
18:10 < vomjom> i don't imagine you can right now :P
18:10 < int-e> gcarrier:
http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/elfkickers.html ;-)
18:10 < gcarrier> i wrote a small example, 6g and 6l
18:10 -!- quellhorst [n=quellhor@static-70-104-26-16.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has
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18:10 < gcarrier> 640KB!
18:10 -!- ninja123 [n=ninja123@] has quit [Remote closed the
18:10 < Associat0r> kaib I undestand but I read a lot of bad comments on the
net about how Go can't do pointer math while it can
18:11 < vomjom> gcarrier, yeah, it's statically linked right now
18:11 < ment> gcarrier: that should be enough for everyone
18:11 < gcarrier> int-e: darwin
18:11 < gcarrier> ment: :P
18:11 < MarkBao> hmm, it's too bad that Go is such a new language
18:11 < vomjom> gcarrier, i don't think you'll get small binaries anytime
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18:11 < int-e> gcarrier: they don't work under modern linux kernels anymore
18:11 < MarkBao> needs moar libraries for, like, mobile phone dev
18:11 < swamytk> how to link go program dynamically?
18:11 < Zaba_> what's wrong with keeping things statically linked, anyway..
18:11 < gcarrier> int-e: ha ha
18:11 < kfx> MarkBao: how about writing them
18:11 < kfx> here's your big chance to shape the future
18:11 < vomjom> why are you guys all so concerned about binary sizes for a
beta language?
18:12 < vomjom> :P
18:12 < Zaba_> why are y'all concerned about binary sizes lower than 1MB?
18:12 < MarkBao> kfx: I'm actually too inexperienced.
18:12 < MarkBao> :)
18:12 < rog> vomjom: i guess so.  seems unusual though.
18:12 < gcarrier> Zaba_: because i work on embedded systems?
18:12 < musty> I want to toy around with the Linux kernel, is Go capable of
doing so at a level that C is without restrictions/limitations etc?
18:12 < swamytk> i want to know about dynamic way to have a common framework
of shared libraries
18:12 < bj_990> nevermind..  wiki answered my ?
18:12 < musty> Say, loadable kernel modules.
18:13 <+kaib> Associat0r: sure.  but lack of pointer arithmetics is kind of
a feature.  slices replace most of the mundane use and there are still ways to get
at the hardware.
18:13 < musty> Anyone have a clue about the capabilities of this?
18:13 -!- eulalia [n=eulalia4@wikia/Eulalia459678] has joined #go-nuts
18:13 < temoto> kaib: is (limited) support for list comprehensions
18:13 < Associat0r> kaib what are the other ways to get at teh hardware?
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18:13 < musty> Hmm
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18:14 < halfdan> ahoi
18:14 < swamytk> i am basically a 8051 assembly programmer..  used with
worrying about size :-)
18:15 < me__> hmm, why is cas() being used in the linux runtime for
18:15 -!- rbohn [n=rbohn@] has joined #go-nuts
18:15 < musty> kaib, here?
18:16 <+kaib> musty: yep
18:16 < musty> kaib, reckon you can answer my question ^ ?
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18:17 < Associat0r> kaib what are the other ways to get at the hardware in
18:17 -!- kingisaac [n=ihildebr@nat1.oklahoman.net] has joined #go-nuts
18:17 < techknowlust> I'm having trouble installing go on OS X
18:17 -!- DrNach [n=nach@85-250-85-159.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #go-nuts
18:17 < techknowlust> I keep getting an error about $GOROOT not being set or
18:17 -!- hebroon [n=hebroons@p4bcd08.hkidnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit
18:17 < sharpner> export GOROOT=/somedirectory
18:17 < techknowlust> even when $GOROOT/src/ exists as it needs to
18:17 <+kaib> musty: re linux kernel.  the answer is probably no.  linux is
designed pretty tightly around c, not even c++ is a first class citizen
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18:18 <+kaib> Associat0r: you can write platform specific assembly and
compile it with 6a/8a/5a.
18:18 < techknowlust> one sec, client is acting up
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18:18 < rog> this seems a bit more clunky than it should be:
18:18 < rog> (n, _, _) := bignum.IntFromString(s, 0);
18:18 < rog> x = int(n.Value());
18:18 < three-f-jeff> kaib: wouldn't the "cannot turn of gc" be a pretty big
problem in the kernel as well?
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18:18 < three-f-jeff> s/of/off
18:18 < Associat0r> kaib inline?
18:18 -!- techknowlust_ is now known as techknowlust
18:18 <+kaib> Associat0r: if you look at src/pkg/runtime/$GOARCH) you can
see some examples.
18:18 < Associat0r> kaib thanks
18:19 < techknowlust> so I export GOROOT=/path/to/go/dir
18:19 <+kaib> Associat0r: no, you have to link against them.
18:19 < techknowlust> but still it's giving this error
18:19 -!- seymour [i=mike@dsl-244-114-37.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #go-nuts
18:19 <+kaib> Associat0r: the asm files end in s.
18:19 < techknowlust> this is when I run it with sudo, is there a chance
that sudo doesn't have these variables ?
18:19 < seymour> pppaaarrrtttaaayyy!
18:19 <+kaib> three-f-jeff: depends on what you do.
18:19 < seymour> lol hi techknowlust
18:19 < musty> kaib, What are the benefits of Go, that're centric to kernel
18:19 < musty> If there are any.
18:19 < techknowlust> hey seymour, hows things?
18:20 <+kaib> three-f-jeff: in interfacing with the linux kernel, probably
true.  if you wrote your own os then you could have better control.
18:20 < sharpner> you don't need sudo
18:20 < Associat0r> kaib in that case I think unsafe is nice to have IMO
18:20 < seymour> lol things are good, weird meeting you here
18:20 < Brakkvatn> FAIL
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timed out]
18:20 < Brakkvatn> I get this error upon building:
18:20 < Brakkvatn> http://pastebin.com/m32f01908
18:20 < InLoveWithGoogle> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=9
18:20 < techknowlust> sharpner: got it running now, tis ok
18:20 <+kaib> Associat0r: true, but asm functions are more expressive than
just using unsafe.  all asm functions are by definition unsafe, the package unsafe
is just a small subset of what asm can do.
18:21 < techknowlust> seymour: yeah I know eh?  PM cause this is channel
18:21 < Associat0r> kaib yes that's true
18:21 < seymour> sure
18:21 < three-f-jeff> kaib: one of my first thoughts when reading the docs
on golang.org was "how would this work for implementing a kernel", and you would
want to do the entire thing in go, but you'd have to customize the gc to work at
the kernel level (eg, being mindful of page tables and segments)
18:21 <+kaib> musty: i'm not sure i can mention anything specific.  go is
really trying to be a general systems language as opposed to a kernel language.
18:21 < musty> Hrm, when building the ./all.bash
18:21 < musty> I get "make.bash: line 20: /home/stinker/.go/bin/quietgcc: No
such file or directory"
18:22 <+kaib> three-f-jeff: correct.
18:22 -!- jbergstroem [n=lfe@bergstroem.nu] has joined #go-nuts
18:22 < musty> kaib: Yeah, fair enough.
18:22 < musty> I still fancy it anyway
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18:23 < musty> I think I might have to rebuild from scratch, no?
18:23 < musty> Being as I haven't a bin.
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18:23 < KirkMcDonald> There!  I've written a lexer for Pygments.
18:23 < Koen_> hey guys, i get the following output when i run all.bash:
18:23 -!- SRabbelier [n=SRabbeli@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has
joined #go-nuts
18:23 < Koen_> > panic PC=xxx
18:23 < Koen_> 0 known bugs; 0 unexpected bugs; test output differs
18:23 < KirkMcDonald> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/150021/
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18:24 < pancake> musty: export PATH=$GOBIN:$PATH
18:24 < temoto> Is (limited) support for list comprehensions
18:24 <+kaib> three-f-jeff: i have some plans for doing embedded work on
arm.  the line between firmware and os is drawn in the water.
18:24 < temoto> Koen_: i had that too and they sad it's fine.
18:24 < three-f-jeff> kaib: that sounds awesome.
18:24 < techknowlust> getting a failed test error on compile
18:25 < SRabbelier> Wow, http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=9 has
become a spam fest real fast
18:25 < Koen_> temoto: ok, thanks
18:25 < techknowlust> to do with a http test
18:25 < temoto> Koen_: they sad there is probably a reported issue.
18:25 < remote> can we re-write python in go already?
18:25 < three-f-jeff> kaib: would that involve having a pluggable gc
library, so you could write a tiny C kernel to handle MM, and then the rest in go?
18:25 < wqzzz> techknowlust: that's the exact same error i get
18:25 < Koen_> temoto: so i should be able to compile things without a
18:25 < danderson> SRabbelier: that's what happens when you try to make
something political and unleash the peanut gallery on it
18:25 < danderson> I really wish google code had a stupidity filter on
comments now.
18:26 < techknowlust> wqzzz: I presume it's a server error so
18:26 < temoto> remote: python is rewritten in a more efficient way (LLVM)
so what?  The frontend language is still old python to be compatible with
thousands of libraries.
18:26 < SRabbelier> danderson: don't you guys have some AI for that by now?
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18:26 < danderson> SRabbelier: yes, but it spends its days banging its head
against a wall screaming "Make it stop!  Make it stop!"
18:26 < temoto> Koen_: i do compile things and they run.  I had that PC=xxx
panic message.
18:26 * SRabbelier chuckles at danderson
18:26 < Koen_> temoto: ok :)
18:26 < three-f-jeff> kaib: or would the compiler just have a -freestanding
switch to use a special "kernel level" gc?
18:26 -!- Naktibalda [n=gm@ctv-79-132-171-55.vinita.lt] has joined #go-nuts
18:27 < teralaser> Naktibalda : Curiousity killed the cat
18:27 < Naktibalda> :P
18:27 < Naktibalda> you were first
18:27 < teralaser> ok, true
18:27 <+kaib> three-f-jeff: i haven't thought this through yet, what i'll
probably do is handle all real time work on timer interrupts and then just let
everything else run normally.
18:27 -!- DarthArachides [n=DarthAra@unaffiliated/dartharachides] has joined
18:28 < temoto> remote: but yes, you can make a python-like frontend
language and translate it into go.  You'll get garbage collection, light threads
and great type system for free.
18:28 < wcr> Any 'official' word on issue9 yet?  :D
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18:28 <+kaib> three-f-jeff: rsc and i have been debating this slightly,
there really isn't really fixed interface for this yet.
18:28 < Aria> "nice book, go away"?
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18:29 < musty> pancake, so I want to have that in my bashrc?
18:29 < pancake> i would put it in the profile, bash sucks
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18:29 < musty> pancake, I have "GOROOT=$HOME/go GOARCH=amd64
18:30 < Associat0r> temoto kinda like http://delight.sourceforge.net/
18:30 < musty> in my bashrc...
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18:30 < pancake> i just did this in the shell, you only need this to build
18:30 -!- NfNitLoop [n=bip@FCodyC-1-pt.tunnel.tserv8.dal1.ipv6.he.net] has joined
18:30 < musty> pancake, Sorry, just a bit confused about where this should
18:30 < techknowlust> is anyone else having their build fail due to a http
test error ?
18:30 < NfNitLoop> yes.
18:30 < wqzzz> techknowlust: i wonder about that...
18:30 -!- InLoveWithGoogle [i=545b7b8f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ozkajwfkkbkvgssj]
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18:30 < NfNitLoop> I just came here for that error.
18:30 < musty> pancake, would export PATH=$GOBIN:$PATH satisfy?
18:30 -!- jshriver [n=jshriver@cblmdm24-53-165-86.buckeyecom.net] has joined
18:30 < NfNitLoop> I'm getting a lookup failure, even though I can dig the
domain just fine.
18:30 < musty> or do I need those ^ above.
18:30 < jshriver> greetings
18:30 < musty> hmm
18:31 < pancake> i dont understand why the build system depends on bash and
why they didnt put a small shellscript in the root automating this environ
18:31 < jshriver> anyone here successfully build Go under Ubuntu Linux 386?
18:31 < musty> pancake, Can you show me what you did?  So I might emulate.
18:31 -!- zalgo [i=andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has left #go-nuts []
18:31 < Tronic> Hmm..  I guess this language has nothing to offer me.  D
seems like a better option if I ever decide that C++ isn't, after all, the perfect
solution for everything and beyond :)
18:31 < pancake> ah, and the 'ed' scripts doesnt works in my ubuntu8.04, in
archlinux its ok
18:31 < pancake> so enam.c are not generated correctly
18:31 < jvogel_> hi does ken thompson or rod pike actually get on irc?
18:31 < pancake> musty: yep 1m
18:31 < musty> pancake, thanks.
18:31 -!- Chipku [n=skaushik@] has joined #go-nuts
18:31 < Tronic> I wish you luck, perhaps we'll see again later (depending on
where golang evolves).
18:31 -!- ruiwen [n=ruiwen@bb219-74-182-228.singnet.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts
18:32 < three-f-jeff> jvogel_: I saw rob on here earlier.
18:32 < jvogel_> whats his nick
18:32 -!- Tronic [i=tronic@dsl-hkibrasgw-ff51c300-29.dhcp.inet.fi] has left
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18:32 < three-f-jeff> robpike
18:32 < musty> ...
18:32 < bear> techknowlust have you done a hg pull -u ? they made some
revisions yesterday to fix issues that were causing http and net test failures
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18:32 < jvogel_> lol
18:32 < me__> hah, not r?
18:32 < jvogel_> ok
18:32 < swamytk> jshriver, i have built go on ubuntu 9.10 successfully and
compiled some programs also
18:32 -!- PHG [n=PHG@ltsp2.csl.tjhsst.edu] has joined #go-nuts
18:32 < glewis> jshriver: yes, just built successfully, no errors
18:32 < techknowlust> bear hg pulled in the last hour
18:32 < musty> jvogel_, why does it matter?
18:32 < NfNitLoop> bear: I'm having the same issues, and I just got my
initial pull an hour ago.
18:32 < jvogel_> musty: just wondering man
18:32 < bear> techknowlust, an hg pull -u or a hg clone?
18:32 < Brakkvatn> I'm having trouble building on my Fedora 11 amd64.  In
the building process I get an error that os_test.TestRemoveAll fails.
18:32 < jshriver> getting this while doing ./all.bash
18:32 < jshriver> bin/gotest: line 141: 13880 Trace/breakpoint trap
18:32 < bear> you need to do the hg pull -u *after* the initial hg blone
18:33 < temoto> Associat0r: yeah kinda like, but Delight type system is
completely wrong.
18:33 < jvogel_> musty: i didnt meant it in a condescending way, i just
thought it'd be neat if i saw them on irc
18:33 < NfNitLoop> bear: Oh, huh.  trying the pull now.
18:33 * techknowlust checks zsh command history
18:33 < techknowlust> one sec
18:33 < techknowlust> bear: hg clone
18:33 < musty> jvogel_, *shrug*
18:33 < musty> hg clone -r ?
18:33 < swamytk> the compilation of go took around 2 to 3 mins in AMD Quad
core machine with 4GB RAM on ubuntu 9.10
18:33 < bear> techknowlust, yea, try: hg pull -u now and see if you get some
new updates
18:33 < techknowlust> I'm not familiar with mercurial, could this be the
cause of my problem?
18:33 < techknowlust> ok
18:33 < PHG> after you pull, you have to update
18:33 < PHG> iirc?
18:33 < NfNitLoop> techknowlust / bear: ah, yep, I see changes.
18:34 < musty> that's what -u does
18:34 < musty> iirc
18:34 < PHG> i'm sorry
18:34 < NfNitLoop> seems strange to have to pull immediately after cloning.
18:34 < NfNitLoop> (coming from bzr) :p
18:34 < temoto> Hey, BTW, shouldn't ./all.bash run some make with some -jN?
18:34 < bear> techknowlust, no - we are all on bleeding edge :) - the bug
fix party yesterday probably has not been pushed to a release yet
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18:34 < techknowlust> I see
18:34 -!- robpike [n=robpike@nat/google/x-ptbyvwjgmcwjnyys] has joined #go-nuts
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18:34 < wqzzz> techknowlust: i got "2 files updated" after hg pull -u just
right now
18:34 < musty> jvogel_, your wish has been answered.
18:34 < techknowlust> bear: if I clone would the .hg directory be included ?
18:34 < JakeSays> so no go for windows?  :(
18:34 < musty> Did anyone have qualms when installing with bash?
18:34 < emet> this web server code example is pretty cool
18:34 < temoto> I see MAKEFLAGS=-j4 in make.bash.  Great.
18:34 < jvogel_> musty: hehe
18:35 < emet> no I got it to compile and install
18:35 < bear> techknowlust, after running hg clone you should see a .hg dir
as part of the new files - yes
18:35 < emet> it was necessarily hard IMO, maybe use autotools next time?
18:35 < PHG> i have a question though, why so many gotos in the source?
18:35 < PHG> though i havent looked through much.
18:35 < weggpod> how to convert string in int when is it possible
18:35 < weggpod> ?
18:35 < musty> jvogel_, Going to /QUERY him now?  :)
18:35 < techknowlust> bear: yes, the problem was I thought 'now' was a
required argument to the hg pull command
18:35 < PHG> are they faster?  (i am very new to c)
18:35 < musty> pancake, still around?
18:35 < techknowlust> running that now
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18:36 < techknowlust> thanks
18:36 < olegfink> silly question: I'm trying to call an anonymous func from
itself.  The first idea was to just generate an OCALL with curfn->nname, but of
course anonymous funcs don't have ->nname.  Is the only possible way to do this
is to add OCALLSELF in addition to OCALLFUNC and implement that in the backend?
18:36 < pancake> musty: yeah sorry im just busy at work
18:36 < bear> emet - it's a bootstrap compiler environment that is in flux -
i'm sure once they get the crosscompiler set for each environment i'm sure the
install will be cleaner
18:36 < emet> I don't think they are slower or faster
18:36 < jvogel_> musty: lol
18:36 < temoto> PHG: you will be surprised.  grep fuck kernel-source/ -r
18:36 < musty> pancake, ah ok.
18:36 < musty> bah.
18:36 < bear> techknowlust, ahh - sorry - the perils of command lines and
english in IRC :)
18:36 < jvogel_> musty: no i just wanted to see
18:36 < techknowlust> bear: tell me about it
18:37 < emet> PHG, I don't think they are slower or faster, most instruction
sets have a "jump" instruction tho which is basically a goto
18:37 < musty> GOROOT=$HOME/go/
18:37 < musty> GOARCH=amd64
18:37 < musty> GOBIN=$HOME/go/bin/
18:37 < musty> GOOS=linux
18:37 < musty> export GOARCH GOOS GOROOT GOBIN
18:37 < musty> That's not enough?
18:37 < musty> For my .bashrc I mean ...
18:37 < NfNitLoop> bear: Hrmm, even after the update, I'm getting
Dial("tcp", "", "www.google.com:80") = _, dial tcp www.google.com:80: lookup
www.google.com.  on no answer from server
18:37 -!- connerk [n=connerk@cpe-069-134-147-205.nc.res.rr.com] has joined
18:37 < emet> no musty
18:37 -!- phoodle [n=phoodle@brln-4d0c32df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts
18:37 < musty> emet: what else must I do?
18:37 < emet> PATH=${PATH}:$GOBIN
18:38 < musty> That's all
18:38 < musty> ?
18:38 <+iant> NfNitLoop: I would just ignore that test failure
18:38 < emet> yea
18:38 < temoto> musty: for bash you can write export and variable definition
on same line.  export GOARCH=amd64
18:38 < temoto> that's not requirement
18:38 < musty> temoto, Eh, not a bash user...
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18:38 < jshriver> how do you do the mercueria update after the original
18:38 < NfNitLoop> iant: ah, ok.  :p
18:38 < soul9> hg pull -u
18:38 < bear> NfNitLoop, yes, there are some dns oddities right now that are
messing with the tests - I would just ignore them for now
18:38 < temoto> musty: and i guess you could escape some problems if you
omit last slash in GOROOT.
18:38 < vegai> jshriver: hg pull && hg update
18:39 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 473 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 4 voices, 469
18:39 < emet> musty, then you run ./bash.all and the commands will become
avail on your shell
18:39 < jshriver> ty
18:39 < temoto> cd $GOROOT/src && ./bash.all
18:39 < bear> ./all.bash
18:39 < temoto> right, all.bash
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18:41 < PHG> can go just use c libraries?
18:41 < PHG> like if i wanted to use opengl
18:41 -!- jmpnz is now known as mennis
18:41 <+iant> PHG: with some effort; see misc/cgo
18:41 <+iant> needs more docs
18:41 < PHG> ah, ok.
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18:41 < temoto> Is (limited) support for list comprehensions
18:41 -!- swamytk [n=swamytk@] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
18:42 < jshriver> Is there a mailing list for Go?
18:42 <+iant> temoto: beyond range?
18:42 <+iant> jshriver: golang-nuts@googlegroups.com
18:42 < hat0> people really aren't getting range, are they
18:42 -!- Killerkid [n=l1am9111@host86-132-16-197.range86-132.btcentralplus.com]
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18:42 < hat0> maybe you guys ought to expand the docs about range a little,
18:42 < Brakkvatn> US Rangers
18:42 * musty wonders why Go chose to use mercurial
18:43 -!- brianmacdonald [n=brianmac@c-98-208-175-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has
left #go-nuts []
18:43 < impl> because Mercurial is awesome!
18:43 < engla> musty: google code supports only hg and svn?
18:43 < PHG> i like mercurial, personally, we use it at my high school for
our intranet
18:43 < KillerX> are maps immutable?  if not, how can I dynamically add to a
map after declaring it?
18:43 <+iant> musty: because code.google.com uses mercurial
18:43 < musty> engla, No SVN here ...
18:43 < connerk> I'm guessing it's a Python thing.
18:43 < musty> iant, Ah, eh.
18:43 <+iant> KillerX: maps are not immutable, you assign them like "m[k] =
18:43 -!- aschallich [n=amos@173-13-183-46-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left
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18:43 < drhodes> In the context of channels, the <- operator allows for
what is provided by yield in python's enhanced generators (pep342)?
18:43 < musty> I don't think its great :)
18:43 < KillerX> iant: but, var x map[int]string; x[0] = "hello"; doesn't
18:44 * rog mourns tuples.
18:44 < musty> But, then again, I am running against those that chose it for
18:44 <+iant> musty: code.google.com is cool, Mercurial was the best choice
given that constraint
18:44 < PHG> rog: what is wrong with tuples?
18:44 -!- Chipku [n=skaushik@] has quit [Remote closed the
18:44 < sstangl> what is the license on the Go gopher logo?
18:44 -!- Chipku [n=skaushik@] has joined #go-nuts
18:44 -!- tumdum_ [n=tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has joined #go-nuts
18:44 < engla> at least google code does support something else than svn
now.  so we can stop laughing
18:44 <+iant> sstangl: I think Creative Commons Attribution, see the bottom
of the home page
18:44 < jshriver> thanks the patches made my build work.
18:44 < rog> PHG: they're not in the language
18:44 < ment> ``need type assertion to use interface { } as string'' how do
i assert string type in for e = range l.Iter() { } where e is already declared as
18:44 < emet> anyone know when I can get some example Go source code
18:44 < jvogel_> word
18:44 < musty> iant: I guess your recommendation might give me reason to
review it again, properly.
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18:45 -!- bmac7 [n=brianmac@c-98-208-175-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined
18:45 < pancake> musty: sorry the lag
18:45 < pancake> musty: http://lolcathost.org/cgi-bin/wk/go
18:45 < PHG> oh.  i like tuples in python.  convenient way to return
multiple values.
18:45 < ment> erm, not how, where
18:45 -!- jmarki [n=jmarki@bb121-7-106-186.singnet.com.sg] has left #go-nuts
18:45 <+iant> emet: there is a lot in the libraries
18:45 < PHG> java doesn't have that, very annoying, at least as far as I
18:45 <+iant> ment range I.iter().(string)
18:45 < bmac7> are there any database connection packages in the works?
18:45 < rog> PHG: and they're really lovely for expressing CSP channel
18:45 -!- akdom [n=akesling@wvc32573rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
18:45 <+iant> musty: Mercurial seems fine to me, we're not recommending it
particularly, code.google.com has some page on why they used Mercurial instead of
18:45 < PHG> rog: i wish i knew what that was.
18:45 < jvogel_> akdom: you're not in class today
18:46 < rog> PHG: go has multiple-value-return, but tuples aren't
18:46 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@e181236190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
18:46 <+iant> bmac7: several people have mentioned database connections, I
haven't seen any code
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18:46 < PHG> rog: i meant CSP channel protocols, what are those?
18:46 < musty> iant: ah, ok.
18:46 < ment> iant: invalid type assertion: (f.*List·Iter()).(string)
(non-interface type <-chan interface { } on left)
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18:46 < musty> thanks pancake
18:47 -!- grawity [n=grawity@78-56-197-6.static.zebra.lt] has joined #go-nuts
18:47 <+iant> ment: a type assertion requires an interface type on the left,
I'm not sure just how to parse your code
18:47 < techknowlust> bear: still getting the failed lookup error
18:47 < techknowlust> changed the dns server I was using and everything.
any ideas?
18:47 < JakeSays> so how portable is go?  i'm wondering how difficult a llvm
port would be.
18:47 < temoto> iant: i couldn't find documentation for range.
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18:47 < engla> musty: I found this about hg git
18:47 <+iant> techknowlust: I would just ignore a net or http test failure,
the compiler and libraries will be built and installed before the test fails
18:47 < bear> techknowlust, are you on a mac?
18:47 -!- Silverwolf [n=silverwo@dial208-250.dialup.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Read
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18:47 < jshriver> Go reminds me of Pascal or Ada, interesting
18:47 -!- PRab [n=prabahy@c-71-238-57-17.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
18:47 <+iant> JakeSays: I hope to make the gccgo frontend more portable to
something like LLVM, there is a fair amount of work to do, though
18:48 < bear> or using a firewall - the issue with dns and go is documented
- for now it's a work-around-solution :)
18:48 <+iant> temoto: see the language spec
18:48 < techknowlust> bear: yup
18:48 < KillerX> iant: this code crashes on line 6.
18:48 < temoto> iant: i meant things like [n..10], [5..].
18:48 < JakeSays> iant: do you know if there are plans for a windows port?
18:48 -!- ajray [n=alex@nom26731d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
18:48 < PHG> i still haven't gotten it to install :/
18:49 < temoto> iant: range doesn't seem to address that.
18:49 < KillerX> JakeSays: no plans for a windows port yet
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18:49 < PHG> i wonder if it would be hard to make a gentoo ebuild
18:49 < JakeSays> hmm.
18:49 < rog> well, if you did have tuples, you could write something like:
chan<- (string, <-chan int)
18:49 -!- eno__ is now known as eno
18:49 < rog> PHG: ...  which would express an RPC channel that takes a
string and returns an int
18:50 < jshriver> Anyone have the URL for the language spec?
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18:50 < rog> as it is you have to define a struct for the (string, <-chan
int) which is inconvenient
18:50 < GeDaMo> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html
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18:50 < PHG> rog: sorry, probably shouldn't bother explaining it to me, i
don't know what an rpc channel is
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18:51 < PHG> rog: i just started using c about a month ago in my high school
programming class, so its probably way above my level
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18:51 < grawity> Hi *.  I just tried building Go on a Debian 5 VPS, and all
the final tests fail with "cat: /tmp/gotest1-1247-grawity: No such file or
18:52 -!- teneighty [n=teneight@cpe-76-93-137-167.san.res.rr.com] has joined
18:52 < temoto> PHG: i suggest you read SCIP book.  That's one of the best
reading for starter programmer.
18:52 < PHG> SCIP?
18:52 < temoto> SICP actually
18:52 < rog> PHG: google "remote procedure call"
18:52 < ment> iant: http://codepad.org/TyIEnrgG
18:52 < PHG> and i'm not exactly starter.  been programming in java for
years, python for years, vb6 since 4th grade.  but then again not exactly college
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18:52 <+iant> temoto: I'm not sure I understand [n..10],[5..]
18:52 < aaront> just finished my first Go program, it's very spiffy
18:53 < KillerX> iant: I figured out the problem I wasn't calling make() on
the map to allocate it
18:53 < KillerX> thanks
18:53 < emet> cool
18:53 < bobappleyard1> uriel:
18:53 < temoto> iant: [n..10] is a list from n to 10, each item is +1.
18:53 <+iant> KillerX: cool
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18:54 < temoto> iant: [5..] is an infinite list starting from 5, each item
is +1.  In terms of Go, it may be expressed as an implicit channel and implicit
goroutine go-ed for you.
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18:54 <+iant> temoto, KillerX: OK, Go doesn't have anything like that, sorry
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18:55 < charles_> missing item from go language, const of type binary, hex
const is 0xBEEF and binary const is 0b1011010100101 etc...  WHY NOT???
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18:56 < emet> Go's object model is pretty interesting I think
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18:56 < olegfink> iant: sorry to address directly, but was my question from
20 minutes ago ignored or just overlooked?
18:56 <+iant> charles_: I guess we just didn't find a need while working
with the language; hex and octal seem adequate, at least for now
18:56 <+iant> olegfink: overlooked, sorry
18:56 <+iant> what was it?
18:56 < emet> so there is no inheritance, just interfaces, and a object can
implement a interface external from it's definition?
18:57 < temoto> BTW i was amazed how good Go optimizer is.
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18:57 <+iant> emet: there is inheritance in the form of anonymous embedded
18:57 < charles_> iant, I know tradition and all, just a little easier than
conversion to hex all the time, VERY EASY tho
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18:57 < temoto> compared to nonexisting python optimizer
18:57 < bobappleyard1> emet: yeah, pretty much.  an object implements an
interface if it has the required methods
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18:57 < emet> but the object doesn't need to even know about the interface
18:57 < tetha> temoto: you do know that there are optimizing python
implementations around?
18:57 < bobappleyard1> emet: no it doesn't
18:57 < fynn> temoto: ...  that's comparing apples to oranges.
18:57 < emet> that's awesome
18:58 < grawity> I just tried building Go on a Debian 5 VPS, and all the
final tests fail with "cat: /tmp/gotest1-1247-grawity: No such file or directory"
18:58 < emet> that is really cool
18:58 < temoto> emet: no objects.  The best implementation of object model.
18:58 < engla> temoto: google is working on optimizing python ;-) among
18:58 < charles_> inat, BTW very good job so far, it is at the right place a
the right time, (25 year C programmer here).  ;)
18:58 < temoto> tetha: do you mean unladen?
18:58 < saml> can i build using mingw?
18:58 < emet> unladen swallow
18:58 < olegfink> iant, I was trying to call an anonymous func from itself.
The mst obvious (and wrong) idea was to generate an OCALL with curfn->nname,
and the only other option I see is to add OCALLSELF in addition to OCALLFUNC and
implement that in backend, but that look awful.  Do I miss anything else?
18:58 <+iant> grawity: I don't see that in yoiur log
18:58 < three-f-jeff> emet, temoto: the 'no objects' OO is what blew my mind
when I read the specs.
18:58 < tetha> temoto: unladen, pypy, jython, ironpython, w/e
18:58 <+iant> grawity: your log looks fine
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18:58 < musty> I still get: make.bash: line 20:
/home/stinker/go/bin/quietgcc: No such file or directory
18:58 < tetha> temoto: psyco, also
18:59 < engla> temoto: but pypy is publishing exciting results too (nothing
usable yet)
18:59 < musty> engla: ^
18:59 < bobappleyard1> tetha: stackless too
18:59 < temoto> Ah, right, psyco is one i know.
18:59 < ment> ok, any suggestions where to put type assertion in
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18:59 <+iant> olegfink: you are asking about the compiler internals?  Sorry,
I don't know the answer.  What you say sounds plausible
18:59 < musty> engla, Think you could help me out, I cd'd into go/ but
there's no bin ...
18:59 < e2d2> musty, i had that when i didn't have $GOBIN in path
18:59 < tetha> engla: I'm really interested in how good pypy will become
18:59 < temoto> Anyway, i didn't mean to offense python.
18:59 < musty> e2d2: I added it to my path though.
18:59 < PHG> you can link c stuff in python programs, right?  that would be
interesting to be able to do for go programs
18:59 < engla> musty: I can't help with go, sorry
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19:00 < PHG> like, have go stuff in python?
19:00 < musty> I need to rm -rf go/ after I re-add it again?
19:00 < bobappleyard1> PHG: ctypes
19:00 < musty> engla, ok.
19:00 <+iant> menty: for e = range f.Iter().(string)
19:00 < bobappleyard1> so yes
19:00 < GeDaMo> musty, I had to create the GOBIN directory manually
19:00 < temoto> bobappleyard1: we need gotypes now :)
19:00 < bobappleyard1> heh
19:00 < musty> GeDaMo, oh ...
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19:00 < charles_> iant, one problem that gets overlooked is the install
issue, will that be addressed at some point?  or are developers on their own??
19:01 < bobappleyard1> charles_: it's been out for a couple of days
19:01 < musty> GeDaMo, so, you made your GOBIN dir seperate from go/ meaning
that its not "in" your go/ ?
19:01 <+iant> charles_: which install issue?
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19:01 < GeDaMo> musty, it's in go/
19:01 < charles_> iant, I mean of APPS not the go system itself
19:01 < musty> GeDaMo, you use bash?
19:01 < GeDaMo> musty, yes
19:01 < bobappleyard1> when it gets into distros etc any issues go away
19:01 <+iant> charles_: an app is just statically linked so can be installed
anywhere; we don't really have a solution, it's true
19:01 < charles_> iant, I'm a developer and can manage the install but my
19:02 <+iant> well, we're not distro maintainers
19:02 < olegfink> iant: yes, cmd/gc.  Is there anyone you'd recommend
bothering with this or should I just go the backend route?
19:02 < emet> iant, is there a plan on removing the need to env variables?
19:02 < bobappleyard1> they don't need to worry charles_
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19:02 < bobappleyard1> it's just a binary for them
19:02 <+iant> olegfink: I would send an e-mail to golang-nuts
19:02 < bobappleyard1> no runtime etc
19:02 < charles_> have been looking for cross develop system as to install
for users
19:02 < musty> GeDaMo, still around?
19:02 < ment> iant: again, that doesn't help (invalid type assertion error),
results here: http://codepad.org/1I2NmNuH
19:02 < GeDaMo> musty: yes
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19:02 < musty> GeDaMo, sorry, see pm pelase.
19:02 < musty> please*
19:02 < ment> iant: unless i'm missing something
19:02 <+iant> emet: no particular plan at the moment
19:02 < SRabbelier> Gah, what did you guys do to the go project page on
codesite?  Why this hack?  "http://code.google.com/p/go/wiki/Source?tm=4" ?
19:02 < charles_> bobapple, net seing the point
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19:02 < GeDaMo> musty, I have them turned off, hold on a sec
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19:03 < bobappleyard1> charles_: your users don't need to install go
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19:03 < musty> GeDaMo, ah.
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19:03 < charles_> the WHOLE idea of JAVA write once run anywhere is that
"they" managed the install to an extent
19:03 < phoodle> hi all, trying to build on os x (10.5.8)--build is
complaining it can't find "quietgcc"--is that supposed to be an alias?
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19:03 < bobappleyard1> charles_: just the binary you make, which is a matter
of copying a file
19:03 < travisbrady> wow, nearly 500 members already
19:03 < charles_> bobapple, still not getting it.
19:03 < three-f-jeff> phoodle: it's a bash script.
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19:03 < three-f-jeff> phoodle: is $GOBIN in your path?
19:03 < grawity> iant: Darn, forgot to redirect stderr to log.  Uploaded a
new one to the same location.
19:03 <+iant> ment: sorry, you are quite right
19:04 < bobappleyard1> travisbrady: members?
19:04 < phoodle> three-f-jeff: no, i'll add it
19:04 <+iant> You need to do for p := range f.Iter() { e := p.(string);
19:04 < bear> charles_, the issue of app installs is moot with a single
binary generated by the compiler - you just have to ensure you have binaries for
all target platforms
19:04 < eno> iant: besides pkg and GOBIN/*, what need to be in distribution
for a golang package?
19:04 < bear> charles_, but if the language starts generating traction and
libraries become common, then package management becomes an issue and that's a
whole other pain in the tuckus
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19:04 < charles_> bear, now we are getting close, how about a universal
binary or byte codes??
19:04 < mrd`> Man, I feel like I'm back in CS 101.
19:05 < delza> phoodle: I had the same problem.  You $GOBIN has to be in
your path, has to exist, and it can't be in your path as "~/bin" but works as
19:05 < bear> charles_, not yet as the compiler generates very specific
instructions - you could try the gccgo frontend but even that would generate
specific arch targeted binaries
19:05 < ment> iant: works, thanks
19:05 < phoodle> three-f-jeff: thanks, adding to path seems to work, is now
compiling, delza: thanks as well
19:05 < charles_> bear, I only mention it because it is hard, if it was
easy, I'de have the solution
19:05 < travisbrady> bobappleyard1: the number of people in this channel
19:05 <+iant> eno: I think that's it
19:06 < ajray> is there a Go book yet?
19:06 < bobappleyard1> travisbrady: oooh i see
19:06 < Selar> geez
19:06 < charles_> bear, need to think ahead if possible
19:06 < bear> charles_, hehe - true - but I think the golang guys are
working on the "crawl" phase before they can get to the "sprint" phase that is
what distro packages are (IMO)
19:06 < Selar> it just came out
19:06 < Selar> the tutorials and videos are awesome right now
19:06 < KillerX> why can I not do this: http://pastebin.com/m5d74a6df (using
a struct type as values in a map)?
19:06 < bear> charles_, yea, the issue will become important as soon as they
allow for linking to outside libraries
19:06 < charles_> bear, the key to a system is design and getting that
right, MUCH hard to re-design than the other way around
19:06 < olegfink> iant: OK, thanks.
19:07 < eno> iant: thx, i've done a cross arm build, doing a native build
right now
19:07 < charles_> bear, so at least try
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19:07 < chrome> oh noes
19:08 < chrome> the internet has broken
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19:29 < danopia`> bye all
19:29 < danopia`> lol
19:33 < reppie> names
19:33 < reppie> /
19:36 < danopia`> kick reppie
19:36 < danopia`> /
19:36 * danopia` hides
--- Log closed Wed Nov 11 19:44:35 2009
--- Log opened Wed Nov 11 19:44:38 2009
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19:45 < GeDaMo> if you do env | grep GO it shows the environment variables
as set?
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19:47 < jmil1> GeDaMo: no they are not set
19:47 < ment> what happend to prefix and postfix incrementation again?
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19:48 < shatly> Innominate: you could ssh into a 'nix box
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19:48 < shatly> Innominate: you could ssh into a 'nix box
19:48 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: hmmm, yeah, the spec mostly just links to
itself; in this case it is referring to unsafe.Reflect
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19:48 <+robpike> ment: see the language design faq
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19:48 < jmil1> GeDaMo: but if i do an echo $GOROOT it shows correctly
19:48 < jmil1> just not in env command
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19:49 < saati> jmil1: export GOROOT=dirname
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19:49 < asyncster> is there a program that compiles, links, and runs a go
19:50 < asyncster> sort of like running 'python program.py'
19:50 < asyncster> but a go version
19:50 < asyncster> :)
19:50 < ceh> Good evening.
19:50 < KirkMcDonald> asyncster: I've written something which compiles and
links one.
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19:50 < ment> robpike: i see.  well, we had a good run.
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19:50 < drhodes> asyncster: I just wrote a python version ~5 lines, I'm all
ears if you find one though
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19:51 < asyncster> ah
19:51 < asyncster> ok
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19:51 < KirkMcDonald> asyncster: Mind, this was also my first Go program, so
it's fairly primitive: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/150042/
19:51 <+gri> asyncster: gotest was written to run tests, but as part of the
job it is compiling, linking, and running a go program, all written in go.
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19:52 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: nice!
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19:53 < Eridius> if LLVM is considered too slow, why does gccgo exist?
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19:53 < nc> ddos successful
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19:54 < Eridius> hrm, irssi is having a hard time telling which parts/joins
are from a netsplit and which aren't
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19:54 < Dreamr_3> quietgcc: command not found
19:54 < Dreamr_3> erorr on OSX Leopard
19:54 < jmil1> saati: didnt' work, not sure what to do next
19:54 < Dreamr_3> i have xcode installed
19:54 -!- tomaw_ [i=tomaw@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #go-nuts
19:54 < Dreamr_3> trying to find ./all.bash
19:54 <+iant> Eridius: It's always good to have at least two compilers for a
language, but it's mainly because I thought a gcc frontend for Go would be an
interesting project
19:54 -!- wm4 [n=luser@p5080D4E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
19:54 < NfNitLoop> Dreamr_3: is ~/bin in your PATH?
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19:56 < phoodle> Dreamr_3: i had the same problem on OS X just now, GOBIN
has to be in your PATH
19:56 < Dreamr_3> compiling :)
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19:57 < jmil1> compiling now, thanks all!  GeDaMo saati
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19:57 < engla> iant: is it not possible to produce a go frontend, gcc
middleend, llvm backend compiler, reusing all of gccgo.  although that sounds
19:57 < Eridius> iant: you should build Go support into Clang ;)
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19:58 <+iant> engla: it is presumably possible but I'm not sure why one
would want to do it
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19:58 <+iant> Eridius: I don't know clang
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19:58 < Dreamr_3> grrr
19:58 < rog> if i call close on a channel and then send on it, then what
happens?  if it's an error, do defer functions get executed?
19:58 < Dreamr_3> now i get a panic
19:58 <+iant> You know, gcc is also a good compiler
19:58 <+iant> and it is also free software
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19:58 < jmil1> iant: you should really look into it.  it's amazingness
19:58 < Dreamr_3> in net test
19:58 < Eridius> iant: and it's also GPL3'd
19:58 < jmil1> clang is
19:58 < danopia`> how old is go
19:58 < Dreamr_3> *checking firewall*
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19:59 < Eridius> at some point in the not-so-distant future, OS X is going
to drop gcc entirely
19:59 <+iant> there is nothing wrong with GPLv3, but this is not the place
for that conversation
19:59 < Dreamr_3> allow all incoming
19:59 <+iant> off to lunch, back later
19:59 < glewis> Yes!!!  "%v" - thank you, Go designers!!!
19:59 < Dreamr_3> http://pastie.org/694208 thoughts?
19:59 <+robpike> lunch time
19:59 < Capso> rog: Hey!  :)
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20:00 < nc> what does %v do ?
20:00 < engla> googlers are pretty precise about lunch time :)
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20:00 <+agl> nc: prints a value
20:00 < nc> awesome
20:00 < glewis> Used in Printf, will print any value, appropriately by its
20:00 <+agl> nc: there's also %#v and %+v.  See http://golang.org/pkg/fmt
20:00 < nc> thats sweet
20:00 < nc> as heck
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20:01 < rog> guess i'll just have to experiment
20:01 < Dreamr_3> yep
20:01 < Dreamr_3> net fails
20:01 < wm4> what do Go programmers think about D?
20:01 < rbancroft> thanks for the help iant!
20:01 < KirkMcDonald> wm4: Never heard of it.
20:01 -!- cb_ is now known as xoebus
20:01 < Dreamr_3> can anyone advise?
20:01 < wm4> KirkMcDonald: lies
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20:01 < glewis> This D programmer is thinking that Go is definitely worth
checking out!!!  I would really like the buf[1:$], though.  :-)
20:01 < Venom_X> where do the misc/xcode/ files need to go to get xcode
syntax highlighting go code?
20:01 < jmil1> glewis: i only program in E
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20:02 <+agl> Dreamr_3: hg pull -yu
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20:02 <+agl> Dreamr_3: sorry
20:02 <+agl> Dreamr_3: hg pull -u
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20:02 < i0n1> is there a chance for exceptions in the future as with
20:02 < ajhager> cgo is working great, but now I need to send a function
pointer to the C side.  Getting "dwarf.Type func() void reports unknown size" no
matter what I try.
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20:02 < KirkMcDonald> D features which could easily be shoved into Go
whole-cloth: Nesting /+ +/ comments.  The $ thingy inside of slices.
20:02 < ment> glewis: yes, my code is full of x = x[1:len(x)]
20:02 <+agl> ajhager: a function pointer?  Are you expecting the C code to
call into Go?
20:02 < uriel> i0n1: I hope not
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20:03 < Dreamr_3> wow, a lot quieier :)
20:03 < Dreamr_3> lets see if it works :)
20:03 < temoto> i0n1: i think i saw it in FAQ near generics answer.
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20:03 < jmil1> I heard E is much better language than Go :
20:03 < i0n1> thanks
20:03 < temoto> KirkMcDonald: what is $ thingy?
20:03 <+agl> ment: KirkMcDonald: glewis: yes, x[y:], x[:y] and some sort of
$ are desirable.
20:03 < KirkMcDonald> Oh! Also _ inside of string literals.
20:03 < ajhager> agl: I am trying to call glutInitDisplayFunc() which takes
void (*func)(void).  Is there anything I can do?
20:03 < wm4> Python style [:bla] slices sucks
20:03 <+agl> ment: KirkMcDonald: glewis: there have been discussions on it
before, it just hasn't happened yet.
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20:04 < KirkMcDonald> agl: The D expression x[a:$] is basically equivalent
to Python's x[a:].
20:04 -!- napsy [n=luka@] has joined #go-nuts
20:04 < KirkMcDonald> Er.
20:04 -!- rapidfx [n=host666@vl-cen-ce1.avtlg.ru] has quit ["Leaving."]
20:04 < KirkMcDonald> Did I say string literals a moment ago?  I meant
numeric literals.
20:04 < wm4> I think D smashes Go completely, except probably for the
concurrency part
20:04 < Dreamr_3> agl: bingo, moving on
20:04 < ajhager> agl: I've seen this possible in Python's ctypes, but I've
been digging into cgo's internals and can't find anything.
20:04 < temoto> Yeah, i'd like to see 1_000_000 too.
20:04 < KirkMcDonald> So 1_000_000 is a valid literal in D.
20:04 < Dreamr_3> so is there a textmate syntax?  :)
20:05 < glewis> In D, you can also use $ with an expression, like buf[1:$-1]
20:05 <+agl> ajhager: what you can't do is pass a pointer to a Go function
into C. I don't know the specifics of the GL libs however.
20:05 < freenose> Dreamr_3: there is no gay syntax
20:05 < Eridius> haha awesome
20:05 < three-f-jeff> wm4: I skipped D because it's just C++ cleaned up by
removing the C compatibility (that may seem a bit simplistic, but D never seemed
to fix the basic problems with the C++ object model)
20:05 <+agl> Dreamr_3: someone submitted a TextMate bundle.  I'm not had a
chance to review it yet.
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20:05 < Dreamr_3> agl: where would i find that?  :)
20:05 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@] has joined #go-nuts
20:05 < KirkMcDonald> three-f-jeff: The D object model is much closer to
Java's than C++'s.
20:05 < engla> Eridius: +1
20:06 <+agl> Dreamr_3: http://codereview.appspot.com/154050 and
20:06 < KirkMcDonald> three-f-jeff: Apart from proper templates and mixins.
20:06 < wm4> three-f-jeff: D went the same way as Java and C#, when it comes
to fixing the object model...  no, C compatibility is not dropped; you still can
link it, and most C declaration can just eb pasted into D
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20:06 < KirkMcDonald> D has link-compatibility with C, but not
20:06 < three-f-jeff> KirkMcDonald: that's what I meant.
20:06 < nc> is there a G language
20:06 < nc> cause google Go should just be called G
20:07 < nc> to solve that naming issue from that mccabe guy
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20:07 < Dreamr_3> ha
20:07 < Tak> there's G also
20:07 < temoto> Naming issue?
20:07 < KirkMcDonald>
20:07 < Tak> my vote is Issue9
20:07 < soul9> "Go!" != "go"
20:07 < wm4> D either compiles C code, or rejects it...  it can't happen
that D compiles some C code, but the code behaves differently from C
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20:07 < nc> oh
20:08 < nc> haha
20:08 < three-f-jeff> KirkMcDonald: what I consider broken about OO is the
object heirarchies, in that sense Java, C++, C# and D are much the same (with the
exception of multiple inheritance, which is extra broken)
20:08 < jb55> what's this defer statement all about
20:08 < Eridius> earlier someone was claiming Go never implicitly converts
anything, but that's wrong.  It implicitly converts array pointers into slices
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20:08 < KirkMcDonald> I like defer.  It's basically like D's scope(exit).
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20:08 -!- ajray [n=alex@nom26005c.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
20:08 < wm4> what the heck did the Go designers think when they designed the
20:08 < ajray> does google have a continuous integration server for Go
20:09 -!- MagBo [n=Petrache@mpe-2-170.mpe.lv] has joined #go-nuts
20:09 < ajray> With the fast compilation times and all :-)
20:09 <+agl> ajray: we have an internal thing, yes
20:09 <+agl> ajray: nothing solid nor public yet.
20:09 < MagBo> hi!
20:09 -!- keithcascio [n=keith@pool-96-251-58-223.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has
joined #go-nuts
20:09 -!- danielrf [n=cgibreak@pool-96-248-174-38.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has
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20:09 < ajray> agl i was thinking of maybe making one myself
20:09 < engla> no public google projects using Go yet?
20:09 < engla> except for the go website (?)
20:09 < Dreamr_3> hmmm
20:09 < MagBo> it go meant to by a system-programming lang?
20:10 < MagBo> is*
20:10 < frodenius> yes
20:10 < engla> MagBo: you have to wonder when the homepage's subtitle is "a
systems programming language"
20:10 -!- sjbrown_ [n=sjbrown@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)]
20:10 < MagBo> ((:
20:10 < keithcascio> I read the Ars article, and go-lang.org, it's exciting
20:10 -!- erikd [n=aphistic@] has joined #go-nuts
20:10 < three-f-jeff> wm4 and KirkMcDonald: Not that you can't write good
code in D/Java/C++, I just find the object models do more to get in my way.  And
I'm pretty sure that go actually fixes that problem.
20:11 < MagBo> yes, my question was far more rithorical than it should be.
20:11 < wm4> three-f-jeff: how does it fix it?
20:11 < ajray> can I do lazy evaluation of statements in Go?
20:11 < MagBo> and how direct memory management is implemented?
20:11 < three-f-jeff> wm4: there is no unified objects.
20:12 < nickbp> i noticed in the 1hr video that there was discussion of a
templating syntax -- has that been worked out or is it still in progress?
20:12 < MagBo> and what about templates?
20:12 < keithcascio> I take it that Go source code files can participate in
circular dependencies, like Java source files, unlike C source files, correct?
20:12 -!- diabolix [n=jsoyke@] has joined #go-nuts
20:12 < dsp_> i have to giggle.  i don't think i remember the last time i
saw someone get excited about a programming language.
20:12 < keithcascio> last time I got excited was Ruby
20:12 < three-f-jeff> wm4: What I mean is the object model splits out the
interfaces and then maps them automatically.
20:12 < wm4> dsp_: oh, they get excited about D all the time
20:12 <+agl> keithcascio: within a package, certainly.
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20:13 < dsp_> wm4: D did not particularly excite me.  i mean, sure, it's
kinda cool
20:13 -!- CMA [n=cma@unaffiliated/cma] has joined #go-nuts
20:13 < dsp_> but it's still a programming language
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20:13 < diabolix> so, the 'go' keyword, and <-, are they part of the
language?  or are they added through some means of meta-programming by the
20:13 < dsp_> a C like one at that heh
20:13 -!- krig_ [i=kegie@stalin.acc.umu.se] has joined #go-nuts
20:13 <+agl> diabolix: part of the language.
20:13 < Dreamr_3> any mysql libs for go yet?
20:14 < diabolix> i see.
20:14 < mattgirv> dsp_: What is wrong with C?
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20:14 < dsp_> mattgirv: i'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, it's
just not exciting
20:14 < ajray> i bet google has internal SQL stuff somewhere (MySQL,
20:14 -!- nickbp [n=fsoh@unaffiliated/beoba] has left #go-nuts ["( °_°)"]
20:14 < three-f-jeff> wm4: I usually stick to C when I want a typed language
because the data structures are clearer (to me), whereas everytime I poke around
with OO programs, everything is layered about 6 layers too deep (which is super
annoying when you have to resort to RTFS).
20:14 < Dreamr_3> ajray: that they are keeping to themselves?
20:15 < mattgirv> dsp_: I remember when I first got into programming with my
Amiga, assembly language seemed exciting then hah :)
20:15 < keithcascio> +agl: thanks, that leads me to ask about the compiler,
g6, is it more like javac, i.e.  is it actually a build system, or is it more like
gcc, strictly a compiler?
20:15 -!- kim__ [n=kim@207-179-227-215.mtco.com] has joined #go-nuts
20:15 <+agl> keithcascio: 6g is like GCC.  It outputs machine code.
20:15 < ajray> i dunno.  The video said its been going on about two years
now.  i think SQL integration is something that'd happen in the first two years of
20:15 < nc> i have determined
20:15 < nc> Go will not build on openbsd
20:15 <+agl> keithcascio: you need to present all the files in the package
to it: it doesn't chase links.
20:15 < wm4> three-f-jeff: I also feel like most "OOP" type systems suck
20:16 < wm4> I have yet to look how Go handles inheritance, overriding, etc.
20:16 < keithcascio> +agl: that seems to differ from gcc, since gcc compiles
one file at a time, correct?
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20:16 < kmc_> why does go have implicitly nullable types?  aren't those
pretty much a disaster?
20:16 < three-f-jeff> wm4: And I think, I'm not totally sure of this, but I
think go does it better.
20:16 < ajray> also, i'd like to add my voice to the templating question.
Has it come anywhere from where the talk mentioned it?
20:16 -!- Cesario [n=Cesario@vil69-8-88-172-179-202.fbx.proxad.net] has joined
20:16 <+agl> keithcascio: correct
20:16 < three-f-jeff> wm4: time will tell, but I'm excited (and I put a lot
of implicit trust in anything Ken Thompson and Rob Pike come up with).
20:16 < diabolix> I think if you need a complex feature, the language should
provide a means to add it, not depend on it.
20:17 -!- davidL [n=david@unaffiliated/davidl] has left #go-nuts []
20:17 < kmc_> with nulls, unless you have some way to structure computation
(e.g.  monads), you end up writing "if (x == NULL) return NULL" every other line
20:17 < diabolix> like, why can't the 'go' keyword be a function that takes
a closure as an argument?
20:17 < ajray> diabolix: would templating qualify as a complex feature?
20:17 < keithcascio> +agl: OK, how is a typical Go program built, using gnu
20:17 -!- haitao [n=haitao@faraday.ps.uci.edu] has joined #go-nuts
20:17 < Clooth> iMac-Nico:src Nico$ sudo ./all.bash
20:17 < Clooth> $GOROOT is not set correctly or not exported
20:17 < Clooth> :/
20:17 < Clooth> $GOROOT is set to /Users/Nico/Go
20:17 < diabolix> ajray, no, templating is a feature by which you can add
new features.
20:17 < Clooth> which is where the mercurial clone is
20:17 < Eridius> Clooth: did you export it?
20:18 < krig_> anyone have an emacs mode for go?
20:18 < ajray> Clooth: did you source your .bashrc after adding those lines?
20:18 < Clooth> maybe not
20:18 * Clooth tries again
20:18 < ajray> krig_: its in the misc folder
20:18 < Eridius> krig_: misc/emacs/go-mode.el
20:18 < danderson> diabolix: because goroutines are nothing without the
support of the runtime, which makes it a language feature, not a library function
20:18 -!- akeidolon [i=eidolon@firefly.cat.pdx.edu] has left #go-nuts []
20:18 < krig_> ajray Eridios: thx
20:18 < three-f-jeff> wm4: also, if the OO model ends up being
no-better/no-worse, the concurrency model is awesome.
20:18 -!- Skel is now known as JustinHoMi
20:18 < danderson> (my non-authoritative opinion)
20:18 -!- yiyus [i=12427124@je.je.je] has joined #go-nuts
20:18 < wm4> is there an IDE (think Visual Studio, Eclipse...) for Go yet?
20:18 < three-f-jeff> wm4: there's vim, emacs and xcode support.
20:18 -!- ShadowIce [n=pyoro@p54A27D38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
20:19 < wm4> three-f-jeff: yes the concurrency stuff seems to be very good
20:19 < Clooth> Yes Eridius, Yes ajray
20:19 < diabolix> danderson, what do goroutines do that you can't do with a
function that takes a function as an argument?
20:19 < ajray> wm4: i'm hacking at tab-completing methods in VIM.  right now
vim is (afaik) syntax hilighting
20:19 < Clooth> export GOROOT=/Users/Nico/Go
20:19 < Clooth> and I just ran source .bash_profile
20:19 < Clooth> there is no .bashrc file
20:19 < wm4> I'm one of those people who laugh when hearing the words "vim"
and "IDE" together...  sorry
20:19 < three-f-jeff> wm4: the concurrency stuff is what I immediately
started playing with.
20:19 < danderson> diabolix: check the docs on how goroutines get scheduled.
The runtime schedules them on threads in such a way that goroutines share threads.
20:19 -!- Spion [n=spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #go-nuts
20:19 < Eridius> wm4: haha
20:19 < Venom_X> wm4: looks in the misc directory
20:19 < three-f-jeff> wm4: and I'm one of those that won't touch anything
that is not vim.
20:20 -!- tromp_ [n=tromp@rtc34-222.rentec.com] has joined #go-nuts
20:20 < wm4> heh
20:20 < ajray> wm4: is the emacs mode better?
20:20 < wm4> ajray: nah
20:20 < diabolix> danderson, ok, thats fine, but why can't a function called
'go' that takes a pointer to a function do the same thing?
20:20 < ajray> i just want to be able to tab-complete methods
20:20 < ajray> saves me a little time coding.  like everything else i try to
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20:20 < Clooth> so any idea?
20:21 < Deltafire> ajray: ctags support would be nice - you'd get
tab-completing methods then
20:21 < danderson> diabolix: ah, so your question is purely about syntax,
not why goroutines can't be lifted out of the language into a lib
20:21 -!- Fish [n=Fish@] has quit [Dead socket]
20:21 < danderson> then, I don't know.
20:21 < Clooth> I have "export GOROOT=/Users/Nico/Go" in .bash_profile
20:21 < ajray> Deltafire: yeah, thats what i'm looking at now (vim+ctags)
20:21 < Clooth> and I have sourced it
20:21 < Clooth> but it says iMac-Nico:src Nico$ sudo ./all.bash
20:21 < Clooth> $GOROOT is not set correctly or not exported
20:21 < Eridius> Clooth: what does 'env | grep ^GO' say?
20:21 < Clooth> it lists the 4 vars
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20:21 < Clooth> GOBIN=/Users/Nico/Go/bin
20:21 < Clooth> GOARCH=386
20:21 < Clooth> GOROOT=/Users/Nico/Go
20:21 < Clooth> GOOS=darwin
20:21 < Dreamr_3> so can i define my own methods?
20:21 < vegai> Clooth: why sudo?
20:21 < diabolix> danderson, well, both.  I mean, why should you have to add
a feature to the language for something as simple as the go keyword?
20:21 < Dreamr_3> so i can add two strings together?
20:22 < Clooth> vegai, it says permission denied without it
20:22 < ajray> Dreamr_3: yes, but you can add strings normally
20:22 < Dreamr_3> text + "more test";
20:22 < Clooth> for the bin directory
20:22 < Eridius> Clooth: btw, if you're on a Core Duo computer you probably
want to use amd64 instead of 386
20:22 < ajray> Dreamr_3: strings are first class typtes
20:22 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-133-105.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined
20:22 < ajray> types
20:22 < Clooth> even if its intel, Eridius?  :s
20:22 < Dreamr_3> ajray: hmmm
20:22 < Eridius> Clooth: you need to make sure the bin directory exists
20:22 -!- vaibhav [i=squid@iws4.iiita.ac.in] has joined #go-nuts
20:22 < Clooth> it does Eridius
20:22 < Eridius> Clooth: yeah
20:22 < Clooth> I created it
20:22 -!- inz- [n=blaat@critique.xs4all.nl] has joined #go-nuts
20:22 < Dreamr_3> ajray: so why does the join function do all this crazy
copying arrays one byte at a time?
20:22 < Eridius> Clooth: amd64 is the same as x86-64
20:22 < Dreamr_3> ajray: for speed or what?
20:22 -!- tux21b [n=nchristo@trujillo.srv.pocoo.org] has joined #go-nuts
20:22 < aaront> Clooth: it shouldn't need sudo
20:22 -!- mennis [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined
20:22 < diabolix> I've seen where things go when you add features to the
language instead of the runtime.  the end of that road is Ada.
20:22 < aaront> check the permissions on bin
20:23 < Dreamr_3> string#Join
20:23 < ajray> Dreamr_3: strings are immutable, byte arrays are not.
20:23 < danderson> diabolix: goroutines, due to their form, need support
from the runtime to be able to multiplex several goroutines on a single thread.
So from that point, they must be in the runtime.  As for why the syntax is a
keyword rather than a function, I don't know and defer to the creators of the
language for widsom.
20:23 < Clooth> ok I did some progress
20:23 -!- opafan48 [n=opafan48@] has joined #go-nuts
20:23 < Clooth> I'll get back to it
20:23 < Clooth> thanks bros
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20:23 < Dreamr_3> so an object can't set it's value to something else?  have
a string that when added to returns a new string and sets itself to that new
20:24 < Dreamr_3> maybe i'm still thinking too rubyish :)
20:24 < Dreamr_3> a string isn't an object, is it?
20:24 -!- GeDaMo [n=gedamo@] has quit ["Leaving."]
20:24 < NfNitLoop> a string object cannot.  Because it is defined to be
20:25 < danopia`> Dreamr_3, ruby ftw
20:25 < Clooth> helo rup
20:25 < ajray> Dreamr_3: but a variable can take on a new string as its
20:25 -!- haitao [n=haitao@faraday.ps.uci.edu] has left #go-nuts ["Ex-Chat"]
20:25 < Dreamr_3> ajray: yes i read that :)
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20:25 < Dreamr_3> i think Join needs a CopyBytes function it calls :)
20:25 < keithcascio> +agl: what is the typical build system used to build a
Go program?
20:26 < Dreamr_3> all those for loops are just painful
20:26 < ajray> how close is thompson's debugger to being stable?
20:26 < diabolix> I think I see...  a goroutine can give up execution when
sending to a channel, whereas in a normal program you would have to have seperate
20:26 < rup> Err..  Hello Clooth?
20:26 < ajray> (mentioned in the talk)
20:26 <+agl> keithcascio: make at the moment.
20:26 < opafan48> where is the eclipse plugin :)
20:26 < Clooth> wanna be friends rup
20:26 < Clooth> u seem like a cool guy
20:26 < rup> o_o Who are you?
20:26 < keithcascio> +agl: ok, but gnu make doesn't know how to handle
circular dependencies, correct?
20:26 < Clooth> I'm a friendly soul
20:26 -!- peloverde [n=alex@cpe-173-88-148-20.neo.res.rr.com] has left #go-nuts
20:26 < opafan48> ++
20:26 < rup> Okay then.
20:27 < nc> i have a van
20:27 < ajray> keithcascio: do we want to have circular dependencies?
20:27 < nc> with treats in it
20:27 < nc> if u want to join me there
20:27 < mattgirv> friendly soul or horny programmer, you decide
20:27 < three-f-jeff> lol
20:27 < ajray> OT (9.9)
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20:27 < keithcascio> ajray: circular dependencies between source code files,
like java, unlike c
20:27 < three-f-jeff> keithcascio: circular dependencies are the path to
20:27 < ajray> ya
20:28 < opafan48> another ibm invention..
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20:28 -!- Alexie [n=alex@nat67.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts
20:28 < ajray> agl: is there a wishlist page for the bored college students
who want to contribute :-)
20:28 < ajray> (like GSoC wishlists?)
20:28 < three-f-jeff> (for the record, you _can_ do circular dependencies
with make.  I've seen it.)
20:28 < ajray> eww
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20:29 < keithcascio> ajray, three-f-jeff: circular dependencies abound
between source code files of languages that don't use header files, i.e.  foreward
20:29 <+agl> ajray: not yet
20:29 < Alexie> alright, i just grabbed the go sources and tried to build
the code.  but it stopped with a otest: error: no tests matching Test([^a-z].*)?
in _test/archive/tar.a
20:29 < Alexie> error message.  any ideas why?
20:29 < ajray> the continuous integration server idea would be cool, but
redundant if google released theirs in short time
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20:29 < diabolix> is there a way to include a c header?
20:29 <+agl> keithcascio: you don't have cycles in the package graph, but
you can have them within files in the same package.
20:29 <+agl> keithcascio: (although, I've never actaully tried to make
cycles in the package graph so I don't know what happens.)
20:29 -!- rog [n=rog@adsl-67-113-22-114.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit []
20:29 < zalgo_> Alexie: you need LC_ALL=C in your .profile/.bashrc
20:29 < chrome> does gofmt assume 4 spaces per tab?
20:30 < Alexie> zalgo_: thanks
20:30 -!- pierron_ [n=pierron@91-164-162-231.rev.libertysurf.net] has joined
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20:30 < Alexie> zalgo_: I've got LC_ALL=en_GB.UTF-8.  No wonder :)
20:30 <+agl> Alexie: http://code.google.com/p/go/wiki/CommonProblems
20:30 < keithcascio> +agl: I know from Java there are cycles between
java.lang and java.io, also java.lang and java.util
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20:30 < zalgo_> Alexie: uh, sorry, I was wrong ...  just do "export
LC_ALL=C" before you build
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20:30 < Clooth> hey uhm
20:30 < Dreamr_3> so really now while loops?
20:31 < Alexie> yeah, it's building now
20:31 < Dreamr_3> would you just use a for loop and change the variable
inside the loop?
20:31 < Clooth> I get permission denied for every folder inside the Go
20:31 < Dreamr_3> *no
20:31 < Clooth> and every file
20:31 < Eridius> Dreamr_3: for takes the place of while
20:31 < Clooth> do I have to chown
20:31 < Clooth> it
20:31 -!- PhlowX [n=PhlowX@pD955F699.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #go-nuts
20:31 < Dreamr_3> Eridius: how so?  :) while is a diff looping construct
20:31 -!- `vin [n=vinjacob@] has joined #go-nuts
20:31 < rbancroft> zalgo_: really?  I have UTF-8 as well and it worked fine
20:31 < keithcascio> +agl: it would be outstanding if the packages in the Go
libraries somehow avoided those cycles
20:31 < ajray> it almost seems like 'for' means 'loop' now
20:31 < ajray> but its less characters so im not complaining
20:31 -!- urkonn [n=urkonn@] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:31 < Eridius> Dreamr_3: the for syntax allows it
20:31 < bobappleyard1> Dreamr_3: for cond { body } isntead of while
20:31 -!- wm4 [n=luser@p5080D4E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"]
20:31 < Eridius> Dreamr_3: read the docs
20:31 < Clooth> fixed!
20:32 < Dreamr_3> oh
20:32 < Dreamr_3> interesting :)
20:32 < Alexie> rbancroft: not on my gentoo linux setup, i use
20:32 < Dreamr_3> they just couldn't be bothered to call it while :)
20:32 < temoto> Dreamr_3: and for { body } as while(true) { body }
20:32 < vaibhav> hey , i can't install it.
20:32 < three-f-jeff> Dreamr_3: 2 fewer characters.
20:32 -!- Devel [n=chatzill@dslb-088-069-047-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined
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20:33 < temoto> Yeah, the name "loop" would be more generic.  And you can do
that with preprocessor.
20:33 < Dreamr_3> cause storage space for storing source code is so tight
these days :)
20:33 < three-f-jeff> Dreamr_3: typing time.
20:33 < Alexie> It'd be impressive if you rewrote Go in Go, self-hosting
20:33 < Devel> Hell!
20:33 -!- Space [i=router@r190-64-215-23.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has left
#go-nuts ["Leaving"]
20:33 < Devel> *Hello
20:33 -!- dajero [n=dajero@82-169-246-141.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote closed
the connection]
20:34 < me__> hi; if anyone feels like reading some code, here is my patch
so for far DragonFly BSD support:
http://grex.org/~vsrinivas/src/go-dragonfly-1.diff ; any comments on thread.c
would be nice...
20:34 < Clooth> Get http://codesearch.google.com/: dial tcp
codesearch.google.com:http: lookup codesearch.google.com.  on no
answer from server
20:34 < Alexie> yeah changing LC_ALL to C solved my problem thanks
20:34 < Clooth> ^ what
20:34 < temoto> Alexie: and whole compiler in one line, to make you more
impressed, right?
20:34 -!- zalgo_ is now known as zalgo
20:34 < Clooth> Get http://www.google.com/robots.txt: dial tcp
www.google.com:http: lookup www.google.com.  on no answer from
20:34 < Clooth> ^ what
20:34 -!- pois0n [n=pois0n@] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:34 -!- Devel [n=chatzill@dslb-088-069-047-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit
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20:34 < Dreamr_3> Clooth: turn off your firewall
20:34 < Clooth> I didn't know I had one
20:34 <+agl> me__: you should probably mail the list so that it doesn't get
lost in the noise.
20:34 < Clooth> *checks*
20:34 -!- __ed [i=bitch@anal-co.it] has quit ["changing servers"]
20:34 <+iant> Clooth: DNS issue, we've seen various failure cases with DNS
lookups, you can ignore the test failures
20:35 < Clooth> oh so it compiled still?
20:35 <+iant> Clooth: yes
20:35 < Clooth> cause that came on ./all.bash
20:35 < ajray> agl: i'm holding off for a couple days so the noise dies down
20:35 -!- __ed [i=bitch@anal-co.it] has joined #go-nuts
20:35 < Clooth> it was going for a long time
20:35 < Clooth> then it ended on that
20:35 < Alexie> temoto: Yeah, why not?
20:35 < Clooth> -- if its fine then I won't care about it
20:35 < ajray> /.  dropped the bomb on this one
20:35 < aho> Choices for $GOOS are linux, darwin (Mac OS X 10.5 or 10.6),
and nacl (Native Client, an incomplete port).  Choices for $GOARCH are [...] and
arm (32-bit ARM, an incomplete port).  <- how incomplete?
20:35 <+iant> Clooth: that is after compilers and libaries are built and
installed, and it hsa moved on to running tests
20:35 -!- RadSurfer [n=RadSurfe@unaffiliated/radsurfer] has joined #go-nuts
20:35 < Clooth> ok :)
20:35 < Clooth> thanks iant
20:35 < temoto> Alexie: because there is Brainfuck language to impress
20:35 < me__> agl: okay, will do.
20:35 * Alexie shrugs
20:35 < aho> (oops...  pasted a bit too much) :f
20:36 < danderson> me__: opening an issue with the patch attached is also a
good way to avoid it getting lost in the noise
20:36 < Clooth> are you "+ dudes" the guys behind the language or just hired
20:36 < Alexie> is the darwin port x86 only or can it run on ppc as well?
20:36 < Clooth> -hired
20:36 -!- brrant [n=John@65-102-225-252.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:36 <+iant> Clooth: I worked on the language
20:36 < danderson> Clooth: the voiced people are the go team.
20:36 -!- dr34mc0d3r [n=dr34m@wsip-68-15-107-109.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit
20:36 < soul9> Alexie: it looks like it's 386-only
20:36 < slide_rule> how do I write a makefile for just compiling a
command-line program, rather than a package or such?
20:36 < Clooth> Yeah I thought so
20:36 < danderson> well, more or less :)
20:37 < Clooth> well good going iant ;)
20:37 <+iant> thx
20:37 < Clooth> (pun intented)
20:37 < Clooth> intended*
20:37 < ajray> the 'go team' sounds badass.  like special forces
20:37 < three-f-jeff> Go Team1
20:37 <+iant> slide_rule: you could copy, e.g., cmd/gofmt/Makefile, I
20:37 < Clooth> ye
20:37 < three-f-jeff> s/1/!
20:37 < Eridius> call them Team Go
20:37 < Eridius> then you can order them to Go, Team Go!
20:37 <+iant> the Go Nuts
20:37 < three-f-jeff> Go Team!  Go!
20:37 < me__> danderson: its nowhere near ready yet; i'm just trying to get
20:37 < danderson> ajray: you should see them when they're out on an
20:37 -!- grawity [n=grawity@78-56-197-6.static.zebra.lt] has quit ["sleep."]
20:37 < ajray> lol
20:37 < dsp_> so when can we expect to see a plan 9 port ;D
20:37 -!- pierron [n=pierron@88-122-99-206.rev.libertysurf.net] has quit [Read
error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20:37 -!- boebbel [n=magnus@dslb-088-064-086-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined
20:38 < boebbel> hi
20:38 < Clooth> iant
20:38 < Clooth> can you explain something to me though
20:38 < ajray> dsp_: i'll try that later today :-P
20:38 < Eridius> you could have called it R-Go.  Then the team would be the
R-Go Nuts
20:38 -!- pkrumins [i=nhl@unaffiliated/pkrumins] has joined #go-nuts
20:38 < kfx> dsp_: excellent question
20:38 < Clooth> the language is very interesting looking..  but one thing
that disturbs me alot is the logo
20:38 < boebbel> how can i install go on my opensuse?
20:38 -!- ajray [n=alex@nom26005c.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
20:38 < boebbel> is there a rpm package?
20:38 <+iant> Clooth: the logo?  that is a gopher
20:38 <+iant> I like him
20:38 -!- alst [n=chatzill@c-f5d5e055.117-1-64736c20.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has
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20:38 -!- rog [n=rog@adsl-67-113-22-114.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined
20:38 < Eridius> Clooth: the logo is awesome
20:38 < Clooth> it looks like a gopher that has indeed gone nuts
20:38 <+iant> boebbel: not yet
20:38 < aho> Clooth, the mascot is plain awesome
20:38 <+iant> Clooth: perfect
20:38 < Clooth> ah so it was intended :(
20:39 < Clooth> I thought you guys just had a fetish for animals that looked
20:39 < Clooth> in reference to plan9
20:39 < dsp_> looks like a bastard child of glendas
20:39 < Clooth> but wait-- you do.
20:39 < Clooth> :(
20:39 < jmil1> it's richard gere's favorite language
20:39 <+iant> distant cousin, I think
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route to host]
20:40 < keithcascio> +agl: how does gnu make invoke g6?  One source file at
a time, or more than one at a time?
20:40 <+iant> keithcascio: all the files in one package are pased to 6g at
the same time
20:40 -!- weeegod [n=weeegod@] has joined #go-nuts
20:40 <+iant> different packages are separate invocations of 6g
20:40 < Clooth> I'm gonna try bribery in order to gain a permanent job at
20:40 < Clooth> You think I'll succeed?  Y/N
20:41 <+iant> Clooth: N
20:41 < danderson> N.
20:41 < pbunbun> Y
20:41 < kfx> you could try interviewing
20:41 < boebbel> how do i have to edit my bashrc?
20:41 < keithcascio> +iant: I see, thanks, and I apologize, "6g"
20:41 < kfx> that's what I'm doing
20:41 < soul9> hm..
20:41 < soul9> warning: chan.c:1011 no return at end of function: gcd
20:41 <+iant> Google is indeed hiring
20:41 < Clooth> any more votes?  :(
20:41 -!- __ed [i=bitch@anal-co.it] has quit ["changing servers"]
20:41 < pbunbun> Clooth: Obv.  they'll say no on IRC
20:41 < wcn> Clooth: N
20:41 -!- MarkBao [n=MarkBao@pool-98-110-164-56.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit
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20:41 < Clooth> any more YES votes?
20:41 < Clooth> :(
20:41 -!- __ed [i=bitch@anal-co.it] has joined #go-nuts
20:41 < Clooth> pbunbun: who said anything about IRC?
20:41 < alexsuraci> Clooth: here's a pitty Y.
20:41 < Clooth> O.o
20:41 -!- ninja123 [n=ninja123@] has joined #go-nuts
20:41 < Clooth> Thanks alexsuraci
20:41 < alexsuraci> np
20:41 < alexsuraci> also *pity
20:42 < danderson> me__: oh, okay.  Well, good work on getting support for
more platforms going.  Karma to you.
20:42 < pbunbun> As someone who can't even find a minimum wage job at the mo
I might not be the best person to convince you of a yes
20:42 <+iant> pbunbun: that is true, but it's also true that bribery won't
work, there isn't one person who makes a hiring decision, and, even if there were,
you wouldn't know who it was from the outside
20:42 < TenOfTen> any list of library bindings for go?
20:42 < Clooth> I have a mole on the inside
20:42 < Clooth> (inside of my skin :()
20:42 -!- SomeDumbBumb [n=jack@p54992DC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
20:42 < chrome> ok being able to write a multithreaded tcp server in 53 loc
is pretty sweet.
20:42 < pbunbun> Clooth: Really?  You should get that checked out
20:42 <+iant> TenOfTen: golang.org/pkg
20:42 < keithcascio> +iant: does that mean packages cannot participate in
circular dependencies with each other?
20:42 < Clooth> iant, instead of searching for it myself, is there a jobs
20:42 <+iant> keithcascio: yes, no circular imports
20:43 <+iant> Clooth: google.com/jobs, I think
20:43 -!- luiz [n=luiz_cap@] has quit [Read
error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:43 < me__> danderson: thanks.  is there any place that i should put it
that people might look at it?
20:43 -!- vaibhav [i=squid@iws4.iiita.ac.in] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:43 < Clooth> iant, if I were to apply from europe, is it possible to get
help in relocating to-- for example a US office?
20:43 < TenOfTen> iant: thanks.  there's been any talk on opengl bindings
and similar?
20:43 <+iant> me__: I think opening an issue, or simply starting setting up
a patch as in golang.org/doc/contribute.html
20:43 < Clooth> well not relocating to the office (atleast not fully) but in
the area
20:43 < keithcascio> +iant: that sounds good, but it surprises me, since
there is such heavy circular dependence between packages in the java standard
20:43 < Clooth> meh
20:43 < Clooth> I'm going off-topic
20:43 < danderson> me__: as agl suggested, waiting a little for the peanut
gallery to quiet down is probably a good idea at this point
20:43 < Clooth> I apologize
20:44 <+iant> Clooth: there are european offices, but, yeah, this is
somewhat off-topic
20:44 -!- wcn [n=wcn@] has quit []
20:44 <+iant> keithcascio: it has not been a problem for us so far
20:44 <+iant> we'll see
20:44 < alexsuraci> Where's gccgo?  It's in the tutorial but doesn't go in
my /bin folder on compilation.  Is that out of date?
20:44 < boebbel> Hey how do i have to set up the variables in my .bashrc
20:44 < chrome> iant: if I have a net.Conn and I perform a Read on it with a
buffer thats not big enough, it'll panic if I send it too much.  Is there a way to
make Read only try to read X amount of data?
20:44 < danderson> me__: but if you follow the instructions at
http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html#Code_review to get a code review going, and
pass the review link around on here, that might get you early feedback
20:45 -!- mizai [n=mizai@rhou-164-107-213-187.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit
[Remote closed the connection]
20:45 < danderson> if that's what you're after
20:45 <+iant> alexsuraci: http://golang.org/doc/gccgo_install.html
20:45 -!- Bytecode_ [n=bytecode@97-124-183-166.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote
closed the connection]
20:45 < alexsuraci> iant: Thanks.
20:45 <+iant> boebbel: follow the install instructions, that should work; in
.bashrc "export GOROOT=...", etc.
20:45 < me__> danderson: okay, will do.  thanks!
20:46 < keithcascio> +iant: it seems important, because the Go people want
Go programs to compile fast, which means exploiting multi-core, which means a
parallel build
20:46 < boebbel> iant: ty
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20:47 <+iant> chrome: I'm surprised that it panics, but try io.ReadFull
20:47 <+iant> keithcascio: a parallel build seems orthogonal to circular
package dependencies
20:47 -!- Anubisss [i=Anubisss@ip-170-21-userpool.zeg.zelkanet.hu] has quit
["Haromfajta ember van.  Aki tud szamolni es aki nem."]
20:47 < kim__> in what ways are goroutines better than what i can already do
with the plan 9 thread library?
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20:47 < chrome> iant: do you want to see the code and the panic I get?
20:47 <+iant> kim__: goroutines are coroutines multiplexed onto OS threads
20:48 < sstangl> agl: I think the latest commit broke amd_64 build:
20:48 < Alexie> hrmm, a simple hello world comes to 512k, whereas equivalent
c program is 4k
20:48 < keithcascio> +iant: does "orthogonal" mean mutually exclusive?
20:48 -!- SomeDumbBumb [n=jack@p54992DC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #go-nuts []
20:48 < three-f-jeff> Alexie: it's got a runtime that has to do GC and
goroutine scheduling.
20:48 -!- plainhao [n=plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has quit []
20:48 -!- debacle [n=chatzill@c-71-203-31-53.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined
20:48 < kim__> iant: are there benchmarks or anything comparing the two?
20:48 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
20:48 < Alexie> three-f-jeff: oh yeah i'd forgotten about gc and schediuling
20:49 <+iant> chrome: I don't have time at the moment, but if you get a
panic from Read then it's probably worth opening an issue, seems like an error
would be better
20:49 < three-f-jeff> Alexie: 512k is probably a working minimum for binary
size, since right now, the programs are statically linked.
20:49 < Alexie> does google uses go for their projects?
20:49 < sstangl> Alexie: also unicode ;)
20:49 < NaN> Can I use intel C++ to compile go code?
20:49 < pkrumins> trying go
20:49 < Alexie> unicode is good
20:49 * Alexie likes unicode
20:49 -!- roppert [n=roppert@] has joined
20:49 -!- BlueT_ [n=matthew@ubuntu/member/BlueT] has joined #go-nuts
20:49 <+iant> keithcascio: orthogonal (to me) means more like "independent"
or "separate issue"
20:49 < temoto> Alexie: FAQ says it's not because Go is not production ready
20:49 * sstangl любит уникод
20:49 < chrome> iant: ok, will do that
20:50 <+iant> kim__: comparing goroutines to Plan 9 threads?  I'm not aware
of any benchmarks
20:50 < chrome> iant: I'm pretty sure its my fault though :)
20:50 < three-f-jeff> sstangl: And it displayed!  Even if I cannot read it!
20:50 < Alexie> sstangl любит уникод :)
20:50 < Alexie> cute
20:50 < pkrumins> sstangl, a ja ljublju ascii ;)
20:50 < keithcascio> +iant: I disagree, circular dependence and
parallelization are intimately related
20:50 <+iant> NaN: you should be able to start with icc to build the Go
compiler, though it might need some tweaking of quietgcc
20:51 <+iant> keithcascio: how so?
20:51 -!- jaan [n=jaan@] has joined #go-nuts
20:51 < temoto> I don't know what 512KB working minimum you guys are talking
about since i have 85kb 6.out on amd64.
20:51 < me__> hmm, might be of interest - in the linux runtime, in thread.c,
++ and -- are used for m->locks.  remember those aren't atomic.
20:51 < ment> sstangl: and i love Z҉A҉L҉G҉O̚̕
20:51 < weggpod> how can i found doc about programming thread program with
20:51 < kim__> alexie: staticly linked programes fork much faster than
dynamically linked ones
20:51 <+iant> me__: note that the linux runtime is being compiled with 6c,
not a general C compiler, so we have control over the semantics
20:51 < keithcascio> +iant: earlier in this discussion, agl said 6g "doesn't
chase links"
20:51 <+iant> weggpod: lots of stuff on golang.org
20:51 -!- jaan is now known as mtz
20:52 < me__> iant: still, 8c doesn't generate INC and DEC at least for ++
and -- iirc
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20:52 <+iant> me__: OK--I guess I don't know whether there is a problem
there or not, it's not really my area
20:52 < weggpod> iant, more
20:52 <+iant> weggpod: I don't think there is anything more than golang.org
20:52 < ssb> kim__, until icache starts thrashing =]
20:52 -!- inz- [n=blaat@critique.xs4all.nl] has quit []
20:52 < Clooth> My friend said there was a textmate bundle for Go already
20:53 < Clooth> but I'm having a hard time finding it
20:53 < Clooth> is there one?
20:53 <+iant> keithcascio: I've lost that comment already, sorry, I'm not
sure what it refers to
20:53 < three-f-jeff> temoto: hellwrld.6 is about 5k and 6.out from running
"6l hellwrld.6" is ~620k.
20:53 < alexsuraci> Clooth:
20:53 < weggpod> iant, i just some line about goroutine but nothing about
how to share memory etc..
20:53 -!- rog [n=rog@adsl-67-113-22-114.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit []
20:53 <+iant> all goroutines share memory
20:53 < keithcascio> +iant: generally, a single strongly connected component
of the dependency graph of source code files must be compiled in a single
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20:54 <+iant> keithcascio: you only need to recompile a package if the
packages upon which it depends change their exported data
20:54 < me__> iant: i don't know that it is or isn't yet; is there ever a
case where code running on an M can be interrupted between a load of m->locks
and a store?  afaik, the answer is no, so its safe...
20:54 <+iant> you do not need to recompile if some dependency changes
internally, you just need to relink
20:54 < aartist> how it is different from Perl?
20:54 < temoto> three-f-jeff: ah right, it's all about fmt package.
20:54 <+iant> me__: I'm not familiar enough with the details of the
goroutine runtime to comment usefully
20:54 < temoto> three-f-jeff: try to remove it.
20:55 <+iant> aartist: it's very different from Perl
20:55 -!- wcn [n=wcn@] has joined #go-nuts
20:55 < keithcascio> +aint: maybe I'm asking the wrong questions, maybe Go
source files don't depend on each other the same way C or Java source files depend
on each other, is Go more like Python or Ruby in this respect?
20:55 < opafan48> does go have goto?
20:55 < saati> opafan48: yes
20:55 <+iant> keithcascio: when you import a package, you get access to the
types, vars, consts, and funcs defined in that package
20:55 -!- rafaelmartins [n=rafael@unaffiliated/rafaelmartins/x-162351] has quit
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20:56 < three-f-jeff> temoto: yep.  go/pkg/linux_amd64/fmt.a is 280k.
20:56 < three-f-jeff> And it probably has enough other dependencies to get
it past the half mib mark.
20:56 <+iant> keithcascio: this is done by having the compiler pull in the
parsed export information, it's not like a #include
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20:56 <+iant> I don't know how Python does this kind of thing
20:56 < NfNitLoop> the same way.
20:56 < temoto> Python does everything at runtime.
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20:56 < NfNitLoop> well, yes, at runtime.
20:57 <+iant> Go does this at compile time
20:57 < NfNitLoop> but import imports symbols, not code.  Just like in Java
and Python.
20:57 <+iant> right
20:57 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 510 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 5 voices, 505
20:57 -!- markbao_ [n=MarkBao@nmd.sbx10962.wellema.wayport.net] has joined
20:57 < temoto> And you can't have two import t1 within t2.py and import t2
within t1.py
20:57 < keithcascio> +iant: interesting, maybe 6g is smarter than javac
20:57 < opafan48> how can i use qt4 in Go?
20:57 <+iant> temoto: right
20:57 -!- infrared [i=infrared@visor.slugabed.org] has joined #go-nuts
20:57 <+iant> keithcascio: I don't know how javac does it
20:57 < temoto> iant: same applies to Go imports?
20:58 <+iant> opafan48: no very good way right now, it would be possible
along the lines of misc/cgo
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20:58 -!- einsidan [n=einsidan@194-144-68-248.du.xdsl.is] has joined #go-nuts
20:58 <+iant> temoto: right: no circular imports
20:58 -!- kim__ [n=kim@207-179-227-215.mtco.com] has left #go-nuts ["wizard needs
food -- badly!"]
20:58 < temoto> keithcascio: ^ i guess it answers your circular dependancies
20:58 -!- laurin [n=lek@host245-241.excalibur.tvcconnect.net] has left #go-nuts []
20:59 < keithcascio> +iant: javac cannot compile part of a strongly
connected component, it needs the whole thing at once, maybe 6g is smarter than
20:59 <+iant> keithcascio: in Go there is a tree of package imports, if A
imports B then you have to compile B first and then A
20:59 < MWeber> hi guys...i lost the link to the page, which describes what
to do when the test fails while bootstrapping...
20:59 -!- cherez [n=cherez@] has left #go-nuts []
20:59 < temoto> The interesting thing here is that dependancies can be
automatically found.  It wouldn't be wise to write them in Makefile by hand.
20:59 < NfNitLoop> iant: is there any wa to automate that at the moment?
20:59 <+iant> temoto: yes
20:59 < NfNitLoop> way*
20:59 < boebbel> is there any editor which supports syntax highlighting for
go yet?
21:00 < einsidan> i think texmate does
21:00 < soul9> bobappleyard1: vi, emacs and xcode
21:00 < temoto> But that should be something simple to sed preprocessing.
21:00 < keithcascio> temoto: right, gnu make can't handle circular
21:00 < soul9> it's in the source tree under misc/
21:00 <+iant> NfNitLoop: automate dependency finding?  see src/pkg/Make.deps
21:00 < mpl> soul9: nothing for acme yet?  :/
21:00 < bobappleyard1> soul9: hm?
21:00 < soul9> :( nope
21:00 < soul9> bobappleyard1: sorry :)
21:00 < NfNitLoop> iant: cool, thanks.  :)
21:00 -!- gustaf [n=gustaf@] has joined #go-nuts
21:00 < uriel> what do you want for acme?  *it just works*
21:00 -!- [A]KangB [n=LOL@] has joined #go-nuts
21:00 < soul9> boebbel↑
21:01 < bobappleyard1> soul9: oh i see
21:01 -!- Koen_ [n=Koen@] has quit ["leaving"]
21:01 < soul9> yeah, i don't need syntax highlighting
21:01 < soul9> |gofmt is easy enough
21:01 * pkrumins sings wake me up before you go go
21:01 < asyncster> does go support anonymous functions?
21:01 -!- magewhopper [n=magemage@Wikipedia/Mage-Whopper] has joined #go-nuts
21:01 <+iant> asyncster: yes
21:01 < temoto> For good.
21:01 < asyncster> like var f func = ....
21:01 -!- ErikRose_ [n=grinch@300bd-253.tlt.psu.edu] has left #go-nuts []
21:01 < mpl> uriel: all the maching opening to closing signs work?
21:01 < [A]KangB> how old is go languaje!?
21:01 <+iant> asyncster: var f = func() { }
21:01 < soul9> sure
21:01 < temoto> That's not anonymous.  You just gave it a name.
21:01 < asyncster> awesome :)
21:01 < uriel> mpl: yes
21:02 < soul9> mpl: that's automatic
21:02 < bobappleyard1> asyncster: f := func () { }
21:02 -!- nexneo [n=niket@] has joined #go-nuts
21:02 <+iant> [A]KangB: started about two years ago, see language design FAQ
21:02 -!- tyler_wylie [n=tyler@] has joined #go-nuts
21:02 < [A]KangB> thanks iant
21:02 <+iant> temoto: func() { }()
21:02 < tyler_wylie> Greetings :) I am unable to build Go on my x86-64
Fedora machines
21:02 < pkrumins> does go have any functional programming language elements?
21:02 < mpl> soul9: no that's not.  for exemple that kind of matching for
xml on p9p was added by russ sometime this year.
21:02 -!- gdoko [i=gdoko@albalug/gdk] has joined #go-nuts
21:02 < soul9> actually, matching parentthesis even works in wm/irc ☻
21:02 < sstangl> tyler_wylie: what's the error?
21:02 -!- CMA_ [n=cma@unaffiliated/cma] has joined #go-nuts
21:02 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: let me try to rebuild and I'll pastebin it
21:02 < soul9> mpl: xml is different
21:02 <+iant> pkrumins: not particularly
21:02 < temoto> asyncster: that's inline function or lambda if you will.
Anonymous is plan f(arg1, arg2, func(){ code });
21:02 -!- gnibbler [n=duckman@124-168-51-145.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts
21:02 <+iant> temoto: that works too
21:02 < vhold> In the documentation, it says Go is not yet mature enough for
Google itself to use productionally, what's an example of that immaturity?
21:03 < soul9> xml is retarded, that doesn't count
21:03 < soul9> works on jjson though
21:03 <+iant> vhold: needs better libraries, better GC
21:03 < temoto> iant: yeah and that's awesome!
21:03 < soul9> json*
21:03 < mpl> soul9: sure.  I suppose there isn't much to change from C for
it to work on Go.
21:03 < vhold> better GC as in..  faster..  or as in..  don't crash so much
21:03 -!- dual [n=dual@] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:03 < nexneo> what should be directory structure for custom package ?
21:03 < pkrumins> since i learned haskell, everything seems different, would
love fp elements in every language.
21:03 <+iant> vhold: faster
21:03 -!- `vin [n=vinjacob@] has quit [K-lined]
21:04 < temoto> nexneo: so good question.  We need more guide styles.
21:04 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error:
110 (Connection timed out)]
21:04 <+iant> nexneo: if it's your own package, whatever you like, really;
for a contributed package see golang.org/doc/contribute.html
21:04 < vhold> iant: thanks
21:04 < bobappleyard1> pkrumins: i know what you mean, although lisps in my
21:04 < temoto> no, style guides that it
21:04 < Deltafire> is it possible to strip the executables produced by 6l?
they seem rather large
21:04 -!- x2cast [n=alvaro@] has quit
21:04 < soul9> mpl: basically on any language that uses parenthesis like
< ( [ or { it works
21:04 < mpl> iant: I wonder how you get the energy to repeat those things so
many times.  good for you :)
21:04 -!- __ed [i=bitch@anal-co.it] has quit ["changing servers"]
21:04 <+iant> Deltafire: it's because 6l always links statically
21:04 < tromp_> how big is hello world binary?
21:04 < Clooth> iant, is a web framework a too wild of an idea yet
21:04 -!- __ed [i=bitch@anal-co.it] has joined #go-nuts
21:04 < Deltafire> tromp_: 638k on osx
21:04 -!- roveItaly [n=rove@host-84-222-77-229.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined
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21:05 <+iant> mpl: I forget them 10 seconds after I type them, so it doesn't
seem like repetition to me
21:05 < mpl> soul9: makes sense.
21:05 -!- meheff [n=meheff@nat/google/x-oxgdoeufhhffxiqu] has joined #go-nuts
21:05 < temoto> I wonder how many "Go support" requests guys like codepad,
github are getting today.
21:05 <+iant> Clooth: I don't think so, but obviously some design
21:05 <+iant> is needed
21:05 < roveItaly> hi, is there any italian?
21:05 < Clooth> yes
21:05 < Clooth> I was thinking of something along the lines of RoR
21:05 < nexneo> iant: thanks, when I import it should I have to use -I flag
for path can be defined in import statement ?
21:05 < Clooth> MVC
21:05 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: http://pastebin.ca/1667043
21:05 <+iant> nexneo: the import statement can use a full pathname if you
like, or you can rely on -I searching
21:05 < jlouis> Clooth: perhaps it is not what this thing is built for
21:05 < ssb> do I understand correctly that GC is precise?
21:05 < Clooth> jlouis
21:05 <+iant> I don't think we really know what will work out best for
arbitrary packages
21:05 -!- Megz [i=Megz@] has joined #go-nuts
21:06 < nexneo> iant: cool
21:06 < Clooth> is ruby built for web development?
21:06 -!- gustaf [n=gustaf@] has left #go-nuts []
21:06 < roveItaly> I've got problem compiling go compiler for my ubuntu
21:06 -!- stefanha [n=stefanha@] has joined #go-nuts
21:06 < nexneo> Clooth: noap
21:06 < pkrumins> I am now trying to install go but I get this:
21:06 <+iant> ssb: The current gc walks the stack and as such is imprecise
21:06 < Clooth> nexneo: exactly
21:06 -!- TravisBarker [n=tbarker@twiki/developer/TravisBarker] has joined
21:06 < pkrumins> it installs somethign called 'quietgcc'
21:06 < tyler_wylie> er sstangl refresh :)
21:06 < TravisBarker> hi all
21:06 < pkrumins> not sure what to do with it, and it doesn't run tests as
the install doc shows it should
21:06 -!- hat0 [n=hat@cpe-67-9-132-238.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:06 < jlouis> Clooth: feel free to try doing it.  I am just hypothesizing
you will find it harder than you think, Go being a systems language
21:06 < Megz> Go sucks!!!!
21:06 < soul9> heh
21:06 <+iant> pkrumins: make sure that GOBIN is on your PATH
21:07 < Clooth> Yes I understand that jlouis.  It was just a wild idea
21:07 < tromp_> go is the greatest game ever!
21:07 < opafan48> Megz, +1
21:07 < ssb> iant, are there plans to implement precise gc?
21:07 < temoto> Clooth: web framework in Go is a wild idea because Go is low
level.  HTTP server in Go is a good idea, though.
21:07 < sstangl> tyler_wylie: what's the problem?
21:07 < aaront> Megz, opafan48: then why are you here?
21:07 < Clooth> indeed temoto
21:07 < pkrumins> oh right
21:07 < Megz> no operator overloading, I can't make a simple Vector
interface which supports simple things like v1*v2
21:07 <+iant> ssb: yes
21:07 < Megz> vector3d
21:07 < pkrumins> iant, didn't notice the "'which quietgcc' fails" error at
the end
21:07 < opafan48> aaront, to find another illusion
21:07 < pkrumins> i thought it was a success message
21:07 < jlouis> Bittorrent client in Go would be fun
21:07 < Clooth> temoto: to expand this idea: a web framework could be a go
application instead of the framework being go
21:07 < Clooth> :D
21:07 < pkrumins> iant, perhaps it would be good if errors had 'error: '
appended at the beginning
21:07 < jlouis> as the "client" acts much like a server
21:07 -!- Cyric [n=g0d@rrcs-70-62-118-186.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
21:08 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: it leaves on that error
21:08 -!- artefon [n=thiago@] has quit ["bye"]
21:08 < Clooth> and it could use go-style design
21:08 < Clooth> for the code
21:08 < Clooth> but yeah
21:08 < nexneo> temoto: Web framework in Java was wild idea too.  :)
21:08 < Megz> you guys are all drinking Kool-aid
21:08 < Megz> how about LuaJit
21:08 < Megz> you dont even /need/ to compile
21:08 < sstangl> tyler_wylie: I don't see an error; I have 722 lines
21:08 < temoto> I wonder if there will born a better replacement for
nginx/lighthttpd in Go.
21:08 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: I updated it: http://pastebin.ca/1667045
21:08 < temoto> nexneo: yes, it is still.
21:09 < opafan48> Megz, i ll use it
21:09 < danderson> temoto: don't wonder, start implementing and see what
happens :-)
21:09 < vhold> Why is Go all statically linked?  Was the speed difference
really that great?
21:09 -!- FreshMeat_ [n=crump@c-67-180-74-9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined
21:09 < danderson> opafan48: don't feed the trolls.
21:09 -!- awishformore [n=awishfor@] has joined #go-nuts
21:09 < sstangl> tyler_wylie: check your $GOBIN; the programs should be
21:09 -!- depood [n=depood@chello080108055214.19.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined
21:09 <+iant> vhold: it's a different toolchain approach, it could probably
become dynamically linked at some point if that seems desirable
21:09 <+robpike> go is only statically linked if you use 6g/8g/5g and it's
because the tool chain it's built on only does static linking
21:09 < jlouis> temoto: you can probably implement somehting within 20-30%
performance of those in go in 1/10 the lines of code
21:09 -!- [A]KangB [n=LOL@] has quit ["lero la"]
21:09 <+iant> vhold: Go uses a different linker so dynamic linking is a lot
more work
21:09 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: alright so it built but errored out anyways?
21:10 < JordanG> hey guys, trying to build go, and when i run all.bash i get
an error that the quietgcc command isn't found
21:10 < temoto> jlouis: 20-30??
21:10 < sstangl> tyler_wylie: those are tests that are failing; the
toolchain has already been built.
21:10 -!- keithpoole [n=keithpoo@cpc3-bagu8-0-0-cust84.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has
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21:10 < sstangl> JordanG: mkdir ~/bin
21:10 < jlouis> temoto: quick guess
21:10 <+iant> JordanG: Make sure your $GOBIN is on your PATH
21:10 <+robpike> jordanG: see common problems link at top of irc client
21:10 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: alright I'll give it a try :)
21:10 < temoto> Man i thought go is faster.
21:10 < me__> iant: 6/8l knows how to generate records for libdynld still,
21:10 < vhold> iant: so for now the extra complexity wasn't worth it for
what will probably be a very small number of distinct binaries running on
individual systems I'd imagine?
21:10 < temoto> Are epoll/kqueue bindings there yet?
21:10 < roveItaly> my go installing problem is
21:10 -!- gri [n=gri@nat/google/x-yxkmjhnegzriduus] has joined #go-nuts
21:11 < opafan48> why all these env variables?  cant this be solved more
21:11 < blackmagik> Megz, i think you took the channel name too literal.
have you gone-nuts lol?
21:11 < sstangl> temoto: truthfully, it doesn't really make sense to ask how
fast a language is, only the compilers
21:11 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v gri] by ChanServ
21:11 <+iant> me__: just enough for dynamic linking against other shared
libraries, it doesn't generate any dynamic relocations for the binaries
21:11 <+iant> vhold: yes
21:11 < JordanG> ok, thanks
21:11 -!- wcr [n=wcr@unaffiliated/warcrime] has quit []
21:11 < roveItaly> my go installing problem is http://dpaste.com/119337/ and
my GO*environment is http://dpaste.com/119341/
21:11 < pkrumins> the go compile time seems to be impressive only on really
fast machines
21:11 < roveItaly> can anybody help me??
21:12 -!- infrared [i=infrared@visor.slugabed.org] has left #go-nuts []
21:12 <+agl> roveItaly: hg pull -u
21:12 -!- keithpoole [n=keithpoo@cpc3-bagu8-0-0-cust84.bagu.cable.ntl.com] has
quit [Client Quit]
21:12 < soul9> pkrumins: have you ever compiled gcc or pythoonn?
21:12 < soul9> python*
21:12 < pkrumins> i am now compiling it on a 2.2ghz celeron with 786mb ram,
it has been 4 mins and it's still compiling
21:12 < devewm> are the executables produced by Gccgo smaller size than
those output from 6g/8g?
21:12 -!- stefanha [n=stefanha@] has left #go-nuts []
21:12 < pkrumins> soul9, the video showed it compiling in 19 secs
21:12 < opafan48> too much PR
21:12 < temoto> sstangl: yeah, but particular implementations of algorithms
still can be compared, right?
21:13 <+iant> pkrumins: are you talking about the time required to build the
Go compilers, or the time required to run the Go compilers building Go code?
21:13 <+iant> The Go compilers are written in C
21:13 < Wezz6400> well a celeron at 2,2 GHz is an ancient machine
21:13 < roveItaly> agl: thanks, I'm compiling ;D
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21:13 <+iant> devewm: yes, somewhat, because they are dynamically linked
21:13 < mtz> whoa, lot of people here :D
21:13 < Wezz6400> that's from the P4 era
21:13 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: ah!  success alright
21:13 -!- gzt [n=gzt@24-151-178-146.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Connection
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21:14 < devewm> iant: makes sense.  would be interesting to see some
comparisons, see how much size is due to runtime vs having things statically
21:14 < pkrumins> iant, time required to build the whole Go (./all.bash)
21:14 -!- h3r3tic [n=heretic@] has left #go-nuts ["return this;"]
21:14 < jlouis> Netburst is so beautiful an architecture...  20 pipeline
stages of which 2 is just driving around data from one part of the cpu to others
21:14 < sstangl> temoto: sure
21:14 <+iant> pkrumins: that is not a good reflection of the speed of
running the Go compilers, because that is mostly compiling C code
21:14 < soul9> pkrumins: also, i'd think that''s a lappy with an ssd drive,
which might speed up things quite a bit
21:14 -!- AlanT1 [n=Work@] has joined #go-nuts
21:14 < Wezz6400> lol jlouis
21:14 -!- AlanT [n=Work@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset
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21:15 < soul9> does go have the environment variables hardcoded?
21:15 -!- Alexie [n=alex@nat67.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
21:15 <+iant> soul9: I'm not sure what you mean
21:15 < pkrumins> right.  :)
21:15 -!- dobre_zlo [i=unixwiza@k-lined.info] has joined #go-nuts
21:16 < dobre_zlo> hi
21:16 -!- proun [n=proun@cpe-76-180-82-128.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
21:16 < soul9> well, is e.g.  GOROOT hardcoded anywhere or can ii move them
around and juust set GOROOT?
21:16 < soul9> iant↑
21:16 < sstangl> soul9: you set it in your .bashrc.
21:16 -!- cerv [n=kane@] has joined #go-nuts
21:16 -!- nc [n=nc@bbis.us] has left #go-nuts ["8====e"]
21:16 < proun> can gccgo be used to create a shared object lib?
21:16 -!- dwery [n=dwery@nslu2-linux/dwery] has joined #go-nuts
21:16 < halfdan> hey, i'm getting some errors trying to build go
21:16 -!- joeedh [n=chatzill@c-24-10-97-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit
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21:16 < soul9> sstangl: rather for creating a paackage
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21:17 < sstangl> soul9: you can move them around and just set $GOROOT (try
21:17 <+iant> soul9: you can move things around and just set GOROOT
21:17 < soul9> cool
21:17 <+iant> proun: yes
21:17 < dwery> hello!  I'm trying to output some json formatted data and was
looking at the package json.  I think I'd need the opposite of json.Unmarshal().
Any idea?
21:17 -!- Edward123 [n=dzzzt@unaffiliated/edward123] has joined #go-nuts
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21:17 -!- fhein [n=freundh@c-bee5e155.258-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has
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21:17 < mtz> halfdan: errors like what?
21:17 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: now for a vim plugin :)
21:17 < sstangl> tyler_wylie: already exists!  misc/vim/go.vim
21:17 < jlouis> dwery: perhaps there is some interface implementation?
21:17 < halfdan> mtz: http://nopaste.info/dd8da78971.html
21:18 -!- muckel [n=Christia@ip-94-79-146-96.unitymediagroup.de] has quit
21:18 < jlouis> dwery: a Writer or Serializer or something such
21:18 -!- FreshMeat [n=crump@c-67-180-74-9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
21:18 -!- FreshMeat_ is now known as FreshMeat
21:18 -!- temoto [n=temoto@] has quit [Operation timed out]
21:18 < dwery> jlouis: haven't found anything yet
21:18 < jlouis> caveat: I have not written any Go at all :)
21:18 < opafan48> where is the eclipse plugin with 9999 wizards?
21:19 -!- joeedh [n=chatzill@c-24-10-97-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined
21:19 < sstangl> opafan48: c.c
21:19 < halfdan> mtz: any ideas?
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21:19 < halfdan> that's just the end of the output ./all.bash produces
21:19 < asyncster> is there a regular expression library in go?
21:19 <+iant> asyncster: yes, pkg/regexp
21:20 <+iant> it needs some optimization, though
21:20 < remote> robpike is sexy
21:20 <+robpike> asyncster: it's also pretty simple
21:20 < asyncster> cool :)
21:20 < jlouis> asyncster: http://golang.org/pkg/regexp/ :)
21:20 < roveItaly> all work now!  thanks!
21:20 < uriel> iant: what are the plan/status of rewriting the runtime from
C to Go?
21:20 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: where!
21:20 <+robpike> asyncster: hope to have a much better one soon
21:20 < blackmagik> iant, which part of go do you work on?
21:20 -!- CMA [n=cma@unaffiliated/cma] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed
21:20 < sstangl> tyler_wylie: go/misc/vim/go.vim (hg root)
21:21 < tyler_wylie> oh
21:21 < mtz> halfdan: no sorry, but it looks serious and something you
should report...
21:21 -!- jcgregorio_ [n=chatzill@] has joined #go-nuts
21:21 < pkrumins> exploring packages
21:21 <+iant> uriel: not sure, sorry
21:21 <+iant> blackmagik: I wrote the gcc frontend
21:21 < pkrumins> i'll try to write an article "how to learn go in one day"
21:21 < uriel> iant: ok, just wondering, thanks
21:21 <+iant> uriel: it's a good question
21:22 < roveItaly> is there any plugin for eclipse for programming Go??
21:22 -!- jcgregorio_ [n=chatzill@] has quit [Client Quit]
21:22 < blackmagik> iant, cool, and yea it would be cool to have it self
21:22 -!- jcgregorio_ [n=chatzill@] has joined #go-nuts
21:23 < vhold> pkrumins: Go comes with 3 "Course" pdfs, 1 for each day...
I'm not sure how good they are but you might want to check it out
21:23 < opafan48> roveItaly, soon to be there, will cost around 9999 $ * £
21:23 -!- aidecoe [n=aidecoe@etiriah.aidecoe.name] has joined #go-nuts
21:23 < mtz> :D
21:23 -!- jcgregorio_ [n=chatzill@] has quit [Client Quit]
21:23 < manveru> so all that's missing is ctags support?
21:24 < opafan48> and qt4 bindings
21:24 < roveItaly> uff...
21:24 < roveItaly> :D
21:24 < manveru> not before tk bindings :)
21:24 -!- jcgregorio_ [n=chatzill@] has joined #go-nuts
21:24 < manveru> wait, i didn't even check for them yet
21:24 -!- Bytecode [n=bytecode@] has joined #go-nuts
21:25 < manveru> yeah, none either
21:25 < opafan48> maybe they ll focus on gwt..
21:25 < pkrumins> vhold, oh, didn't notice those.
21:25 < mtz> roveItaly, not yet, as i understand, but as it is quite simple
language and google has eclipse support for gwt i would not be suprised if they
would release a eclipse plugin for go.
21:25 -!- anfedorov [n=anfedoro@nmd.sbx07441.brookny.wayport.net] has joined
21:25 < proun> there doesn't happen to be any git mirrors of the repo eh?
21:25 < manveru> opafan48: binding with java...  quite the challenge :)
21:25 < tyler_wylie> sstangl: you should be able to move this into
/usr/share/vim/vim72/syntax and then it should work right?  or do I need to change
a setting
21:26 < jlouis> dwery: one way is to have an interface which returns a json
fragment and let your types implement this interface
21:26 < jlouis> I would guess
21:26 < manveru> normal C is easiest for FFI, qt is C++...  so you'd have to
swig it
21:26 -!- onox [n=onox@kalfjeslab.demon.nl] has joined #go-nuts
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21:26 < vhold> pkrumins: Yea, poking around in the doc dir and in src/pkg
seem to be of understated importance..  especially the wealth of example code in
the libraries
21:26 < roveItaly> eclipse power is uncomparable for software engineering :D
and it would be e good business for this language :D
21:26 < opafan48> ?!business
21:27 < manveru> lol
21:27 < dwery> jlouis: mm I need something easier...  I need some structured
output of a struct
21:27 < manveru> roveItaly: you don't know a thing if you think software is
about engineering :P
21:27 < dwery> jlouis: json, xml, anything would do
21:27 < rbancroft> in the google talk, rob mentioned that they were working
on swig support
21:27 < pkrumins> vhold, didn't explore that yet.  looking at it now.
21:27 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit ["MICROSOFT WORD IS A FUN
21:28 < devewm> tyler_wylie: i had to add an entry to filetype.vim
21:28 < manveru> hmm, ncurses first maybe?
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21:28 -!- evocallaghan [n=edward@ns1.auroraux.org] has joined #go-nuts
21:28 < nexneo> is there env variable for import path?
21:29 < manveru> nexneo: GOROOT
21:29 < evocallaghan> Question, why was this created if Ada already exists?
21:29 < nexneo> how can it have multiple import path?
21:29 < manveru> nexneo: symlinks?
21:30 <+iant> nexneo: multiple -I options
21:30 -!- fobs [n=hans@dslb-084-059-047-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined
21:30 < opafan48> evocallaghan, coz it had no G in its name
21:30 < tyler_wylie> devewm: yea, that worked thanks :)
21:30 < devewm> tyler_wylie: np :)
21:30 < ment> why can't I type assert []Element array to []*Node type?
21:30 -!- ag90 [n=ag90@nat/ibm/x-agwmrqilhqistnfo] has quit []
21:31 < uman> what is the Go equivalent of scanf?
21:31 -!- mesenga [n=cbacelar@] has joined #go-nuts
21:31 -!- r00ttap_ [n=wjones@] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
21:31 <+iant> uman: I don't think there is a direct parallel to scanf, but
see pkg/strconv
21:32 < halfdan> mtz: it seems that problem has already been commited
21:32 -!- proun [n=proun@cpe-76-180-82-128.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit
21:32 < uman> iant: thanks
21:32 < nexneo> iant: trying to create Makefile for custom package.  looking
21:32 < uman> I suppose the first step would be learning to get any input at
all from stdin
21:32 < uman> how is that done?
21:32 -!- jimmy_ [n=rodrigo@] has quit ["Saindo"]
21:32 <+agl> nexneo: copy a Makefile from an existing package
21:33 < KirkMcDonald> uman: os.Stdin is a File object for the fd 0.
21:33 < nexneo> agl: did that it compiles my custom package fine.  problem
is with main Makefile
21:33 < roveItaly> manveru: I don't understand what u mean
21:33 < roveItaly> :(
21:33 <+iant> uman: os.Stdin supports the io.Reader interface
21:33 < uman> Thanks both of you
21:34 < remote> i wonder why you're using mercurial
21:34 < remote> seriously
21:34 < evocallaghan> lame
21:34 <+iant> remote: because that is what code.google.com provides
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21:34 < opafan48> >> func (b *buf) uint8() uint8 { // so where is the
21:34 -!- aa [n=aa@] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:34 < eharmon> hrm, I lay claim to the first Go IRC bot :P
21:34 < remote> didn't think so
21:35 < manveru> roveItaly: eclipse is overrated, you only need it because
java is so verbose that shoveling all the boilerplate around would be unbearable
21:35 <+iant> remote: didn't think what?
21:35 -!- boebbel [n=magnus@dslb-088-064-086-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit
[Remote closed the connection]
21:35 < remote> i've used subversion with code.google.com before
21:35 < pkrumins> gonna watch pike's lecture now
21:36 <+iant> remote: yes, they support both mercurial and subversion; we
went with mercurial
21:36 < danderson> remote: mercurial support was released last May.
21:36 < jlouis> pkrumins: it's worth it
21:36 < opafan48> / Address-sized uint.
21:36 < opafan48> func (b *buf) addr() uint64 {
21:36 < opafan48> switch b.addrsize {
21:36 < opafan48> case 1:
21:36 < opafan48> return uint64(b.uint8())
21:36 < opafan48> case 2:
21:36 < opafan48> return uint64(b.uint16())
21:36 < opafan48> case 4:
21:36 < opafan48> return uint64(b.uint32())
21:36 < opafan48> case 8:
21:36 < opafan48> return uint64(b.uint64())
21:36 < opafan48> }
21:36 < opafan48> b.error("unknown address size");
21:36 < opafan48> return 0;
21:36 < opafan48> }
21:36 < blackmagik> opafan48, use pastie.org guy!
21:36 < danderson> please don't do that again.
21:37 < opafan48> ugly
21:37 <+agl> nexneo: add the path to src/pkg/Makefile and run deps.bash
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21:37 < chrome> Guys, how can I make a channel broadcast?  Rather than be a
21:37 <+iant> opafan48: hopefully some ugliness in the libraries will avoid
ugliness in user code
21:37 < uman> so what method should I use to read from os.Stdin?  ReadAll?
ReadFile?  ReadFull?
21:38 <+iant> chrome: have a goroutine read from the channel and fan out to
a bunch of different channels
21:38 <+iant> uman: any of them; whichever one does the job you want
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21:38 < nexneo> agl: thanks, will try that.  Another question: what is
difference between _obj/{package}.a and _go_.6 ?
21:38 < chrome> iant: ah, gotya
21:38 < chrome> its early :)
21:38 < jlouis> iant: there are no channel duplication?
21:38 <+iant> jlouis: no, and if there were it would just be a goroutine
under the covers anyhow
21:39 -!- kees_ [n=kees@ipd50a7644.speed.planet.nl] has joined #go-nuts
21:39 < uman> I want to read one line from stdin.  Stop at newline
21:39 < jlouis> iant: with the fanout implementation I guess.  It goes hand
in hand with orthogonality.
21:39 -!- bockmabe_ [n=B@miles.jfet.net] has joined #go-nuts
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21:40 <+iant> uman: we may be missing buffer.ReadLine
21:40 < opafan48> '/run #c++
21:40 <+iant> uman: but I think that is where it would go
21:41 <+iant> for now, use a buffer and read one byte at a time up to
newline, I guess
21:41 < dwery> with reflections can I know the name of the fields of
structure at runtime?
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21:42 < uman> iant: thanks
21:42 -!- hat0 [n=hat@cpe-67-9-132-238.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
21:42 < vhold> If you are using bufio, you can use either ReadBytes('\n') or
ReadString('\n'), depending on what you need
21:42 <+iant> dwery: yes
21:42 -!- stkerr [n=chatzill@c-98-223-36-41.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined
21:42 <+iant> vhold: ah, thanks
21:43 < uman> vhold, thanks, that appears to work
21:43 -!- i0n1 [n=a@88-117-117-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit []
21:43 < dwery> iant: nice!  any pointer to some example?  I've read the
documentation but cannot sort it out
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21:43 <+iant> dwery: no simple example that I know of, but see
pkg/reflect/all_test.go for some complicated ones
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21:44 < dwery> ty
21:44 < vhold> It really can't be stated enough that there's a ton of
answers to questions on the pkgs within the test code inside src/pkg/*
21:44 < manveru> vhold: so there is no difference between "\n" and '\n'?
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21:45 < mwarning> are ppl moving to #issue9 now?  ;)
21:45 <+iant> "\n" is a string and '\n' is a byte
21:45 < vhold> man: one is a byte, one is a string literal, or perhaps a
byte array literal?  I'm not entirely sure
21:45 <+iant> a string literal
21:45 < vhold> see iant
21:45 < remy_> sorry to interrupt : is there a syntaxical coloration ruleset
for vim ?
21:45 < KirkMcDonald> remy_: Yes.
21:45 < manveru> remy_: misc/vim
21:46 < weggpod> channel implementation use pipe ?
21:46 < remy_> thanks :)
21:46 <+iant> weggpod: no
21:46 -!- tuples_ [i=55006258@gateway/web/freenode/x-qnkhlrzamtwgketb] has joined
21:47 -!- einsidan [n=einsidan@194-144-68-248.du.xdsl.is] has quit []
21:47 < blackmagik> time to start using the "rtfm" answer :)
21:47 -!- dchest [n=dchest@] has joined #go-nuts
21:47 < chrome> iant: can you make a new scope just by enclosing it in { } ?
21:47 -!- Futek [n=Futek@3505ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #go-nuts
21:47 <+iant> chrome: within a function, yes
21:48 < chrome> ah, sweet.
21:48 < tuples_> Why does "buf := make([]uint8, 10.000.000)" pretty much use
10mb of RAM, but using "buf, _ := io.ReadFile("10mb");" eat up like 80mb?
21:48 < ment> iant: imagine i have an []Element array (with Element being
empty interface) and i store into it *Node pointer, can I somehow cast the array
to []*Node or do i have to copy it with type assertion one-by-one?
21:48 -!- MisterSpoon [n=irc@cpc3-broo4-0-0-cust471.renf.cable.ntl.com] has quit
21:48 < vhold> tuples: utf-8 represntation ?
21:48 -!- Clooth [n=Clooth@cs27062173.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the
21:48 < tuples_> I tried reading the file in 1kb portions, but since there's
no pointer arithmetic, I don't see how it's possible to fill up my pre allocated
21:48 <+iant> ment: you have to copy element by element, sorry
21:49 -!- streblo [n=streblo@c-67-188-5-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined
21:49 <+iant> tuples_: you can use slices to make up for lack of pointer
arithmetic for that kind of job
21:49 <+iant> keep reslicing to different parts of your buffer
21:49 -!- faux [n=user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Connection timed
21:49 < KirkMcDonald> Slice assignment would be nice.
21:49 < tuples_> I'll give it a shot
21:49 <+iant> tuples_: I don't know the answer to your memory usage
question, by the way
21:49 -!- agl [n=agl@] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:50 < KirkMcDonald> I don't really buy the argument that it hides the
runtime complexity of the operation.
21:50 -!- einsidan [n=einsidan@194-144-68-248.du.xdsl.is] has joined #go-nuts
21:50 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: we're a bit concerned about making an operation
which looks simple be expensive
21:50 < pkrumins> what are you guys going to do with that guy who claims to
have go!  language?
21:50 < tuples_> iant: I even stuffed it into the http server example,
because I thought maybe the GC never runs, but even after a while, memory usage
stays that high
21:50 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: sorry for just giving you that argument
21:50 < KirkMcDonald> iant: It is my experience, in both Python and D, that
is isn't really a problem.
21:50 < roveItaly> manveru: maybe for java is as you said, but I use it for
LaTeX, C++,web programming,perl, test-driven programming, trac integration...
etc...etc...  and it seems to me very powerful!  and it calls minus time to learn
shortcuts than emacs :D...  for project with a lot of different languages, eclipse
integration of all plugins can help and it's a great increase of quality of jobs,
especially if in your team there is someone that decrea
21:50 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: we'll consider it
21:50 < KirkMcDonald> s/is/this/
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21:52 < dchest> Is this the easiest way to convert string to base64-encoded
string?  http://pastie.org/694440
21:52 -!- Gynvael [n=gynvael@static-87-105-185-61.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined
21:52 < Gynvael> hi
21:52 < vomjom> iant, if i wanted to propose changes to the pkg API
(specifically time), how would i go about that?
21:53 < ment> how expensive is different-package method call compared to
static (lowercase) local method call and lolcal non-method call?
21:53 < tuples_> iant: "cannot assign to buf[i:1024]", I feel like I'm
missing something here...
21:53 < KirkMcDonald> tuples_: There is no slice assignment.
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21:54 < tuples_> so I need to "file.Read" directly into the buffer slice?
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[""Woot...go go..  go?""]
21:55 <+iant> vomjom: open an issue or send a patch according to
21:55 < adheus> will the go language be used on Chrome OS?
21:56 <+iant> ment: method calls are the same, whether local or
different-package; they are a little bit more expensive than non-method calls but
not much
21:56 -!- aaront [n=aaront@unaffiliated/aaront] has quit ["And that's all he
21:56 < tuples_> KirkMcDonald: I got it.  file.Read(buf[i:i+1024]); so much
to wrap my head around...
21:56 <+iant> adheus: don't know
21:56 < vhold> adheus: I think their primary intention is for using it for
backend systems programming..  but there is some native-client related stuff in go
that makes me wonder...
21:56 < KirkMcDonald> tuples_: Ah, yes.
21:57 -!- filgood [n=filip@87-194-33-18.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts
21:57 <+gri> tuples_: consider also io.ReadFile.
21:57 < vhold> src/pkg/exp/nacl contains hints that they're experimenting
with go and browser integration
21:57 < tuples_> gri: Yes, but that one uses insane amounts of memory
21:57 < Eridius> how do I update a pending codereview change?
21:57 < tuples_> 3-4-5 times the size of the file
21:58 < Associat0r> iant are there plans fo first class functiions?
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21:58 < Eridius> ah hg upload
21:58 < kees_> what is the syntax of the variables in .bashrc?  for instance
$GOROOT?  something like $GOROOT='~/hg'?
21:58 <+iant> Associat0r: I think we have first class functions--what are
you looking for?
21:59 < frodenius> kees_: export GOROOT=~/hg
21:59 < kees_> thanks!
21:59 <+iant> kees_: http://code.google.com/p/go/wiki/CommonProblems
21:59 < Associat0r> iant passing functions to functions
21:59 < Associat0r> iant higher order functions
21:59 < jamesr> you can pass functions to functions
21:59 < Capso> Associat0r, you mean maps?
22:00 <+gri> tuples_: ReadFile uses a bytes.Buffer underneath which uses
amortized doubling of the buffer.  That may explain it.
22:00 < Gynvael> fd, err:= os.Open("test.png", os.O_WRONLY | os.O_CREATE,
0666); <=- is this sufficient to create a file ? (like in fopen("test.asdf",
22:00 -!- exch [n=nuada@h144170.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts
22:00 < Associat0r> Capso no just passing functions around as param
22:00 < tuples_> gri: makes sense.  thanks for the explanation.
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22:00 <+iant> Gynvael: yes, that should do it
22:01 < mjard> Associat0r: yeah, you can do that
22:01 <+iant> Associat0r: there are no plans for making functions more first
class than they already are
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22:01 < frodenius> Associat0r: you have to create a type afaics
22:01 < Gynvael> iant: mhm, and then fd.WriteString("sadf"); should write
something to it right ?
22:01 * opafan48 part
22:01 <+iant> Gynvael: sounds right
22:01 -!- opafan48 [n=opafan48@] has left #go-nuts []
22:01 < doublec> Associat0r, see this thread:
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22:04 < Associat0r> doublec thanks
22:04 < Gynvael> iant: ok thanks
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22:04 < timmcd> Hello
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22:04 < timmcd> Is there support for TCP sockets with Go?
22:04 <+iant> timmcd: yes, see pkg/net
22:04 < uriel> timmcd: yes and no, sockets suck, use listen/dial
22:04 -!- YazzY [n=yazzy@unaffiliated/yazzy] has joined #go-nuts
22:05 < depood> hi :) i have a realy simple question: what should be $GOBIN
to run the bash from the go installing ? the only "bin" is /bin :(
22:05 < timmcd> iant/uriel: Awesome, thanks!
22:05 -!- kees_ [n=kees@ipd50a7644.speed.planet.nl] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:05 < uriel> iant: how are you so fast?  are you an AI hidden in a secret
8g flag :)
22:05 <+iant> depood: mkdir $HOME/bin, export GOBIN=$HOME/bin
22:05 -!- YazzY [n=yazzy@unaffiliated/yazzy] has left #go-nuts []
22:05 <+iant> uriel: ha, no, I've just been doing this kind of thing a long
22:05 < depood> ah thanks i'll try :)
22:05 <+iant> plus I have a good network connection
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22:06 < uriel> iant: heh, you guys are doing an awesome job at support and
answering questions
22:06 <+iant> thanks, we'll see how long we can keep it up
22:06 < vhold> Yea it is sort of uncanny
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22:06 <+iant> I'm sort of assuming that it will slow down at some point
22:07 < hhg> uriel: iant has been answering questions non-stop for hours :-)
22:07 < shinku1> evening
22:07 < uriel> hhg: yea, I noticed, that is why I was wondering if he was an
ai ;)
22:07 < uriel> hey shinku1
22:07 -!- shinku1 is now known as shinku_
22:07 < Gynvael> yaay...  I've managed to save an image to a PNG file...
yaay ;> hehe, I'm begining to like this language
22:07 < timmcd> Is there support for using straight up C libraries, like,
say, Ncurses?  Or even using C/C++ tk, qt, wx libraries?
22:08 < tuples_> How can I divide ints by floats?  Eeeea!
22:08 < uriel> Gynvael: congrats
22:08 <+iant> timmcd: some support, but not well documented; see misc/cgo
22:08 < timmcd> iant: tyvm
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22:08 < jordibunster> iant: at least you're not getting homework questions
yet.  I hope.
22:08 -!- fobs [n=hans@dslb-084-059-047-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit []
22:09 <+iant> jordibunster: ha, yes
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22:09 < jordibunster> "i must make simple framework in go, i know ror is the
best, but i nieed write it to schooll.  I don't know how i can start.  Meybe you
can help me find any info about how to do
22:09 < jordibunster> "
22:09 < jordibunster> :P
22:09 -!- aa [n=aa@r190-134-69-153.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined
22:10 < Gynvael> uriel: ;>>
22:10 < tyler_wylie> head_hurts
22:10 < KirkMcDonald> So the Go web framework will be named "Go on
Go-karts"?  :-)
22:11 < pbunbun> jordibunster: How did you know what I was JUST about to ask
22:11 < Gynvael> ;DDD
22:11 -!- Rift [n=jhamilto@ip67-152-34-30.z34-152-67.customer.algx.net] has quit
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22:11 < timmcd> Kirk: Go on Karts ;)
22:11 < tyler_wylie> KirkMcDonald: go-karts
22:11 < tyler_wylie> just go-karts
22:11 < timmcd> tyler_wylie: Why stop there?  The Go web framework will be
named: Go.
22:11 < uman> is anyone planning to make Go bindings for ncurses or any GUI
22:11 < timmcd> just Go.
22:12 < timmcd> uman: Thats what I was wondering ;)
22:12 < tyler_wylie> GoTK
22:12 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@p4FE75383.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:12 < vhold> By the time you hook it up to your backend DBMS, what will
the point of the speed of Go be?  What you want to do is improve that backend with
Go first :P
22:12 < timmcd> iant: Your post to check out misc/cgo turned up the emacs
modes, tyvm!
22:12 < vhold> (in reference to web frameworks such as RoR)
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22:12 < shinku_> nice google iniciative, i hope to be part of go devteam
22:12 < chrome> vhold: some DBMSs are not slow.  Heard of TimesTen?
22:13 < jordibunster> chrome: never, do link
22:13 < manveru> uman: i think we should wait for swig support first
22:13 -!- NoobFukaire1 [n=tmccrary@d199-74-115-65.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit
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22:13 < adheus> what's more simple, use 8g or gccgo?
22:13 < chrome> http://www.oracle.com/timesten/index.html
22:13 -!- Bytecode [n=bytecode@97-124-183-166.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:13 -!- JonGretar [n=jongreta@85-220-17-244.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined
22:13 * Eridius doesn't seem to have a gccgo
22:13 < blackmagik> vhold, with a backend like mongodb i'm sure the
performance will matter
22:13 < jordibunster> Oh, in-core.
22:13 < chrome> in-memory
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22:14 < pbunbun> adheus: If you use gcc or g++ already I imagine gccgo is
more familiar, and apparently creates slightly faster programs (but takes a bit
longer to compile)
22:14 -!- badromance [n=aniani@bzq-79-177-238-203.red.bezeqint.net] has joined
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22:14 <+iant> adheus: unless you are familiar with how to build gcc, you
will most likely find it simpler to build 8g
22:14 -!- Bytecode [n=bytecode@97-124-183-166.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client
22:14 < badromance> so is go changing the name ?
22:14 < gzt> have tutorials for complete newbies been made?
22:14 < timmcd> Of what?
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22:14 < timmcd> gzt: http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html ?
22:14 < mitch_feaster> has anyone seen any benchmarks for go?  I haven't
been able to find any benchmark data...
22:14 <+iant> mitch_feaster: see test/bench/timing.log
22:15 < adheus> thanks, iant, pbunbun
22:15 < mitch_feaster> sweet thanks
22:15 < depood> i'm "here" from java, should i learn some c++ before ?
22:15 < Eridius> depood: nobody should learn C++ :p
22:15 < exch> indeed :p
22:15 < pbunbun> depood: Doesn't look all THAT similar to C++ IMO
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22:15 < pbunbun> Not enough to make it worthwhile to go learn it
22:16 < gzt> the go tutorials seem to assume you know about general
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22:16 < KirkMcDonald> I think Go has fairly little in common with C++.
22:16 -!- oxtail [n=oxtail@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:16 < badromance> where can i read about goroutines?
22:16 -!- einsidan [n=einsidan@194-144-68-248.du.xdsl.is] has left #go-nuts
22:16 < dchest> is there a bug in base64?  I can't get encoded strings with
some lengths (1, 2 don't encode at all, some other gets truncated).  If of course,
I'm doing it right: http://pastie.org/694440
22:16 < shinku_> nobody should learn c++[2]
22:16 < timmcd> badromance:
22:16 < cking> any word on why the generated binaries are so large for
simple programs?
22:16 <+iant> cking: they are statically linked
22:16 -!- vaibhav [i=squid@iws4.iiita.ac.in] has joined #go-nuts
22:16 < pbunbun> gzt: Yeah I assume since it's fairly new language they
kinda assume it'd be experienced programmers giving it a shot, I'd say easier
tutorials will pop up in time
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22:17 < badromance> does go support mpi for communicating ?
22:17 -!- GoogleIsShiny [i=545b7b8f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ppqvrfxdvpkxkvlz] has
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22:17 -!- rata [n=rodrigo@princed/developer/rata] has joined #go-nuts
22:17 <+iant> badromance: not yet
22:17 -!- andrewh [n=andrewh@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts
22:17 < badromance> dang
22:17 < dwery> it's me again :D there's a way to trim multiple spaces in a
22:17 -!- fynn [n=fynn@unaffiliated/fynn] has joined #go-nuts
22:17 < badromance> (so i guess no infiniband support)
22:18 < Zarutian> Interfaces seems to make depency injections like a breeze
but what about authority injection (or lack thereof) to limit a programs access to
things it doesnt need to have to do its thing?
22:18 -!- Rob_Russell [n=chatzill@206-248-157-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined
22:18 <+robpike> dwery: strings.TrimSpace
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22:18 <+iant> Zarutian: not in the full capability sense, no
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22:18 < bobappleyard1> i see four stories on proggit about go.  three are
solely concerned with the name.
22:18 < doublec> does the C ffi support callbacks into Go code?  For
example, calling a Go anonymous function in the gui event loop?
22:19 <+iant> doublec: not currently, no
22:19 < cking> last random question - has anybody with any degree of
authority made a statement w.r.t bug 9:
22:19 < jessta> bobappleyard1: par for the course on proggit
22:19 -!- dw [n=dw@unaffiliated/dw] has joined #go-nuts
22:19 < bobappleyard1> jessta: i suppose
22:19 < fynn> Any good URL for Go's garbage collector?
22:19 < Arek_> running timing.sh fails when building fasta.c . undefined
symbols: "_fputs_unlocked" on MacOSX 10.5
22:19 < badromance> robpike, is go an up2date limbo ?
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22:19 < dwery> robpike: trimSpace works only for leading and trailing spaces
22:19 < DarkAnt> cking: the I9 bug
22:19 < DarkAnt> haha
22:19 < KirkMcDonald> dwery: You want to normalize whitespace within the
22:19 <+iant> fynn: the current garbage collector is mark and sweep, in the
future we hope to implement something like Recycler (which you can find using your
favorite search engine)
22:19 < dwery> KirkMcDonald: yes
22:20 < Zarutian> iant: I here I was hoping that there might be a fresh
start that would integrate security consideration into normal way of writing the
code instead of trying to bolt it on later (when its often too late)
22:20 <+robpike> dwery: regexp.ReplaceAllString is perhaps the simplest if
you know regular expressions
22:20 <+iant> Zarutian: the language is intended to be safe but it's not
intended to provide capabilities
22:20 < manveru> why do i keep getting base64.go:6: undefined:
22:20 < badromance> also, using a mark and sweep GC isn't as promosing as a
low-lantecy memor model here
22:20 < dwery> robpike: thanks
22:20 < mrd`> Hm, closures sharing mutable stack variables caught me off
22:20 -!- ajray [n=alex@nom23228b.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
22:20 < manveru> i did import "bytes"...
22:20 < fynn> iant: thanks.
22:20 <+iant> manveru: did you import "bytes"?
22:20 <+iant> hmmm, don't know....
22:20 -!- gtroy [n=Galen@unaffiliated/gtroy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)]
22:20 <+iant> well, in that message you misspelled String
22:20 < manveru> oh
22:20 <+iant> badromance: yes, we know
22:21 < bobappleyard1> mrd`: isn't that the correct behaviour?
22:21 < manveru> thanks :)
22:21 < manveru> much better
22:21 < badromance> is there any ETA on future go plans ?
22:21 < cking> not that I will pretend my opinion counts w.r.t.  I9 but I'm
currently proselytizing Go at work and wanna know if the name is gonna change
22:21 < Zarutian> iant: hmm but adapting golang programs to run
KeyKos/Eros/Capros Domains would be relativly easier than other programs ;)
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22:21 < mitch_feaster> Just looked at the benchmark data.  I had my fingers
crossed that go was going to be a little faster...  Looks like it still has a ways
to go to catch up to C. Not bad, however, given all the nice features of go plus
the fact that the language is so young, not bad at all.
22:21 <+iant> badromance: no ETA on future plans as yet
22:22 -!- slide_rule [i=ad42401d@gateway/web/freenode/x-jyetvosbhctlvmmt] has
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22:22 <+iant> mitch_feaster: thanks, yes, we do need to continue to improve
22:22 < chrome> iant: is there a better way of writign the idiot if err !=
nil { return err; } ?
22:22 < chrome> idiom :)
22:22 <+iant> chrome: no, alas
22:23 < chrome> not requiring { } around it might help?
22:23 -!- TechnoKat [n=quassel@cary-e-110.resnet.purdue.edu] has joined #go-nuts
22:23 < bobappleyard1> chrome: then () will return
22:23 < KirkMcDonald> If only there were some manner of scheme, used in
other languages, for the propagation of errors up the call-stack.
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22:23 <+robpike> chrome: need the { } but not the ;
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22:23 < pkrumins> Any way to build GUI apps in Go?
22:23 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: see language design faq
22:23 <+iant> chrome: one thing you can do is name the return parameter
"err", then you don't need to explicitly name it again
22:24 < olegfink> at which point does e.g.  walkclosure() get called in the
compilation process?
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22:24 < ajray> +robpike: is there a way to do lazy evaluation of statements
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22:24 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: I've read it.  I'm just being a jerk.  :-)
22:24 < Zarutian> pkrumins: stick an rfb viewer on the apps stdin and
22:24 <+iant> olegfink: unfortunately the people who can answer that
question are mostly not on right now
22:24 -!- dho [n=devon@onager.omniti.com] has joined #go-nuts
22:24 < quit> Is there any way to run Go on windows?
22:24 -!- xpapiez [n=xpapiez@15.244.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #go-nuts
22:24 < uman> quit, No.
22:24 < blackmagik> rtfm
22:24 < mrd`> bobappleyard1: Not saying it's wrong, just caught me off
guard.  My brain was still in Erlang mode, so I wasn't thinking about having to
deal with shared state.
22:25 < keithcascio> +robpike: for the purposes of compilation, do Go source
files depend on each other in the same sense that java source files do?
22:25 < timmcd> quit: Dual boot some sort of unix
22:25 -!- anothy_x [n=a@cpe-76-189-197-62.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
22:25 < bobappleyard1> mrd`: k
22:25 < dho> hey anthony
22:25 < Zarutian> quit: other than using virtualbox.org or vmware to run
linux ontop then no
22:25 < uman> does Go run on solaris?
22:25 <+iant> keithcascio: Go source files depend on imported packages, not
on other source files
22:25 <+robpike> ajray: not what you're asking, no.  but you could probably
do something clever by putting the statement in a goroutine and sending it a
message it when you want it to run
22:25 <+iant> uman: no, not yet
22:25 < ajray> robpike: thanks, i like that solution :-)
22:25 < anothy_x> dho: hey
22:25 <+iant> I think a Solaris port would not be difficult
22:25 < uman> iant: do you have any idea if a port is in the works?
22:26 <+robpike> keithcascio: yes, as i understand it, but only within a
single package
22:26 <+iant> I do not have any idea, we aren't working on one ourselves
22:26 < timmcd> iant: How many people are currently working on the Go
source, improving the language?  (as we speak, that is.)
22:26 < KirkMcDonald> I am still not sure what to think of the fact that a
package implies nothing about the source files which comprise that package.
22:26 <+iant> the team at Google is five or seven people, depending on how
you count
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22:26 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Does that mean two 20% people?
22:26 < hhg> timmcd: see CONTRIBUTORS in the source
22:26 < fynn> KirkMcDonald: yeah, I'm not sure either how long term it's
going to work without Exceptions
22:26 < vhold> This is that awkward phase where the giant company that's
released something into the open source world wants to say "You see, we released
this because..  we were kind of thinking..  all these things you want..  could
maybe..  be something..  you do.."
22:27 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: they're 100% at the moment but may drop out
later, I'm not sure
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22:27 <+iant> vhold: ha ha, indeed
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22:27 < keithcascio> +robpike: am I correct that means you must always
invoke 6g on an entire package?
22:27 <+iant> it's a giant company but a small team
22:27 < fynn> iant: what exactly is the vision for what Go would be used
22:27 < fynn> desktop apps?  server-side web applications?  ChromeOS?  :)
22:27 < bobappleyard1> fynn: sort of thing C is used for now
22:27 <+iant> keithcascio: yes, all files in a package must be passed to 6g
at the same time
22:27 <+robpike> keithcascio: you must present all the source for your
package to the compiler at once
22:28 <+iant> fynn: making programming fun again
22:28 < chrome> general purpose programming
22:28 <+robpike> keithcascio: also: see how gotest runs; it recompiles the
package so it can add testing
22:28 < fynn> bobappleyard1: only device drivers and operating systems?  ;)
22:28 < olegfink> iant: ok, I'll just wait for my ML post to be answered
then.  :-)
22:28 -!- groceryheist [n=groceryh@user20.net177.whitworth.edu] has joined
22:28 < bobappleyard1> bobappleyard1: and webservers and guis and databases
22:29 < bobappleyard1> talking to myself there
22:29 < vhold> fynn: I personally see it as most appropriate for unix system
programming..  writing servers, databases, long running concurrent processes where
latency is critical..  but that's just me
22:29 < hhg> fynn: systems programming.
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22:29 < keithcascio> +robpike, +iant: what does the build process look like
then?  How does gnu make know to pass entire packages at once?
22:29 < fynn> vhold: that's what I think as well, but pretty clear that it's
also useful for desktop application programming.
22:29 < Zarutian> fynn: my guess is that golang is good for anything that c
is good for but doesnt require insane performance
22:29 < ssb> how Go was received by google's own army of programmers?
22:29 <+robpike> makefiles run things
22:29 <+iant> keithcascio: GNU make doesn't know anything about Go at
present, so you have to write the rules yourself
22:30 < keithcascio> +iant: OK, thanks
22:30 < bobappleyard1> GNU make voodoo scares me, anyway
22:30 < keithcascio> +robpike: thanks
22:30 < KirkMcDonald> make isn't that complicated, really.
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22:30 <+robpike> bobappleyard1: the makefiles are dead easy; all the hard
work is done for you.  look at some of the examples in src/pkg/...
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22:30 < bobappleyard1> makefiles are easy
22:30 < fynn> hhg, Zarutian: again, not sure how saying it would only be
used where C currently is makes sense, seeing that C is only used for very small
specific niches, and that it's clear Go has application beyond those niches.
22:30 < hhg> fynn: Go should also be useful for writing massively scalable
servers in a structured programming style (no events and inversion of control)
22:30 < timmcd> Would it be worth it for me to work on making my MUDlib in
Go, or just stick with languages I know and are more developed?
22:31 < keithcascio> KirkMcDonald: that's because gnu make can't handle
circular dependencies between source files
22:31 < tuples_> What exactly does the command string(buf) do, if buf is a
22:31 < bobappleyard1> GNU make's implicit rule nonsense is scary though
22:31 < chrome> why is it scary?
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22:31 <+iant> timmcd: I'm not sure we can answer that question for you
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22:31 < fynn> hhg: why "no events"?
22:31 < cking> can we explicitly free memory if we so choose, or at least
help the GC out, or is it all automatic?
22:31 < timmcd> iant: Oh please won't you?  ^_^
22:31 < vaibhav> what a GUI options, is there any way to build GUI
22:32 <+iant> tuples_: it treats each element in the slice as a Unicode
character, converts to UTF-8, and appends all the bytes together into a string
22:32 < fynn> timmcd: dude, if you want to learn Go, do it in Go :)
22:32 < timmcd> vaibhav: It doesn't look like it, but I'm probably wrong
22:32 < manveru> is there any reason for having mandatory semicolons?  :)
22:32 < tuples_> iant: Copying the slice in the progress?
22:32 < timmcd> manveru I don't think it does...
22:32 <+iant> cking: it is all automatic at present
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22:33 <+iant> manveru: semicolons separate statements, we need something to
do that job
22:33 < keithcascio> +robpike: in light of research that I've done on the
java standard library, it surprises me that you could stay within the constraint
that packages not participate in circular dependencies with each other
22:33 < cking> iant: any plans on supplementing that or is it not a
consideration right now?
22:33 < manveru> iant: newlines?
22:33 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Newlines?  :-)
22:33 < KirkMcDonald> Hah.
22:33 <+iant> tuples_: you get a new string, which is separate from the
slice, but the slice per se is not copied
22:33 < eno__> hmm, got "Illegal instruction" from 5.out built on amd64
(with GOARCH=arm), running on ARM linux
22:33 < piotr> vaibhav: use existing C library, example here
22:33 < chrome> posix signal handling, is it in one of the existing
22:33 <+iant> keithcascio: it's worked so far, we'll see
22:33 < tuples_> iant: Because the memory consumption doubles if I use
string(), which seems very strange to me.
22:33 < hhg> fynn: you would write goroutines that block on i/o, like a unix
process dealing with a single client, and you can use all the structured
constructs (loops, etc.) and it just blocks when it needs to and the state is on
its stack.  you don't get into the awkward model where you have inversed all the
control with a "reactor" like event structure, where things subscribe to be called
22:33 < keithcascio> +iant, +robpike: all of java's most important packages
participate in circular dependencies with each other
22:33 <+iant> cking: we know that the GC needs work
22:34 -!- quit [n=Maurizio@] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection
timed out)]
22:34 < vhold> fynn: This is where I'm a bit over my head, but I think the
idea is that instead of events where you're passed in your context of who you're
talking to, etc, you just talk normally like you would in an oldschool
fork-on-connect model and let the system task switching during blocking syscalls ?
22:34 < vaibhav> piotr: 'll give it a shot ,
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22:34 < fynn> vhold: yeah, I think that at the very least forking would
22:34 <+iant> manveru: I don't think newlines are entirely adequate, plus
sometimes it's nice to have multiple small statements in one line
22:35 -!- eno__ is now known as eno
22:35 < fynn> hhg: *nod*
22:35 -!- xoebus [n=xoebus@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has left #go-nuts []
22:35 < manveru> iant: so what's the issue with having both as separator?
22:35 <+iant> manveru: long statements which break across multiple lines
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22:35 -!- mikeperrow_ [n=mikeperr@] has joined #go-nuts
22:35 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Python manages to do it.
22:36 -!- mikeperrow_ [n=mikeperr@] has left #go-nuts []
22:36 < manveru> most languages do it with \
22:36 <+iant> also, we prefer not to have invisible syntax, though we
understand that some languages like it; that's just a design choice
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22:36 < timmcd> OO, if any?
22:36 < vhold> Well, fork()ing on connect was an easy, but seriously
expensive, model for concurrently handling many small requests
22:36 < timmcd> rr, scratch that.  I'll just look pu how it handles oo
22:36 < manveru> :(
22:36 <+iant> chrome: I don't know if we have signal handling, actually
22:36 -!- hallsa [n=shane@miles.jfet.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:36 * manveru writes a semicolon-adding preprocessor
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22:37 < chrome> iant: kinda need it for server daemons :)
22:37 < cking> braces are great, makes things explicit - semicolons same
thing, though I like that they're usually optional
22:37 -!- rog [n=rog@] has joined #go-nuts
22:37 <+iant> chrome: yes, that's true, it might be in there, I'm not sure
22:37 < bobappleyard1> timmcd: watch rob pike's presentation linked on the
site.  pretty good explanation of the objecty stuff.
22:37 < eydaimon> has anyone added go to the great language shootout type
benchmarks yet?
22:37 < frodenius> what's the timeline for swig support?
22:37 <+iant> eydaimon: there is some code in test/bench
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22:38 <+iant> frodenius: probably sooner rather than later, but no explicit
22:38 < frodenius> hmk
22:38 < chrome> iant: i guess its hard right now with no ability to call go
code from c
22:38 < tuples_> iant: I am just trying to find out where all the memory
gets lost...  :/
22:38 < binrapt> This video presentation on Go on YouTube is irritating,
apparently the greatest thing about this language is that it "compiles" fast
whereas it really just uses C or C++ (I don't know) as an intermediary language
and gcc does the rest of the work?
22:38 < chrome> can't just wrap the syscall
22:38 < jessta> what is with all the semicolon hating?
22:38 <+iant> chrome: I would encourage you to file an issue on that
22:39 -!- eekee [n=ethan@sourcemage/guru/eekee] has joined #go-nuts
22:39 < jlouis> binrapt: not all the compilers
22:39 < cking> binrapt: looks like u got about 5 minutes through the video
22:39 < KirkMcDonald> binrapt: Man what no.
22:39 < chrome> will do
22:39 -!- rata [n=rodrigo@princed/developer/rata] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"]
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22:39 < hhg> binrapt: no.  read the website
22:39 < binrapt> It's only 78 seconds in length
22:39 < binrapt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoWei-GAPo
22:40 < vhold> tuples: is the processing growing linearly with the amount
you read, or is the "overhead" constant ?
22:40 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit []
22:40 < tuples_> it exactly doubles
22:40 < cking> binrapt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKnDgT73v8s
22:40 < manveru> jlouis: it's mental overhead, it's useless but mandatory
syntactic sugar
22:40 < tuples_> I allocated a []uint8 with the size of the file, and read
it into it.  memory usage: filesize.
22:40 -!- rog [n=rog@] has quit [Client Quit]
22:40 < tuples_> then I used s := string(...); -> memory usage doubled
22:41 < groceryheist> Personally, I am very excited about Go.
22:41 -!- vmac [n=vmac@h69-128-47-244.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] has left
#go-nuts []
22:41 < groceryheist> especially because I already know what I want to
program with it.
22:41 < KirkMcDonald> groceryheist: A Diplomacy adjudicator?
22:41 < Quadrescence> groceryheist: And why in the world would you be
excited about this language over another?
22:41 < groceryheist> no
22:41 -!- bmac7 [n=brianmac@c-98-208-175-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:41 < groceryheist> an SVM
22:41 < hnsr> i'm only excited about Go because i desperately need something
to be excited about :(
22:42 < groceryheist> sad:
22:42 < groceryheist> Well, I like learning / using different langs
22:42 -!- redondos [n=nnnnredo@twat.com.ar] has joined #go-nuts
22:42 < Quadrescence> I see.
22:42 < jlouis> I think Go fills a missing spot.  Something like C but not
22:43 < groceryheist> Also, I really like the idea of having C with
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22:43 < JonGretar> jlouis: You mean like Objective-C?  :)
22:43 < groceryheist> yeah
22:43 < ouah> hi!
22:43 < cking> what's up with all the hate and cynicism?  wanna be down on
go?  then think of it as a few neat ideas, then go on your merry way and wait
while it evolves
22:43 < groceryheist> but I hate apple :)
22:43 < jlouis> That I will proably keep on programming Haskell/ML and not
use Go is another thing entirely
22:43 < weaselkeeper> I like not having to ; a statement :P
22:43 <+gri> tuples_: when you convert a []byte into a string, the bytes
have to be copied.  note that the string remains immutable, but the []byte can
change.  A better implementation may use a ref-count inthe future, but that has
other problems in a MT environment.
22:43 -!- bmac7 [n=brianmac@c-98-208-175-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined
22:44 < manveru> base64.go:14: too many arguments to return
22:44 < matthieu_p> groceryheist: why hating apple ?
22:44 < manveru> any idea what that means...  i'm trying to return a string
22:44 < KirkMcDonald> I am excited about Go because it has some of the same
goals as D, but is less likely to collapse in on itself.
22:44 -!- jordibunster [n=jordi@mail.cardiomems.com] has quit []
22:44 -!- rntz [n=rntz@pool-98-110-42-52.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net] has joined
22:44 <+iant> manveru: did you declare the func as returning a value?
22:44 < groceryheist> I'm mostly joking about that...  Of course by saying
that I am flamebaiting.
22:44 < JonGretar> :)
22:44 < Capso> D was meant to make programming fun again?
22:44 < manveru> oh...
22:44 < tuples_> gri: Okay, thank you.  Is there a way to explicitly delete
the old []uint8, because it doesn't seem to be GC'ed even after several minutes or
just waiting
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22:45 < groceryheist> I don't use apples products and I don't see much
reason to.
22:45 < KirkMcDonald> Capso: Moreso than C++, at least.  :-)
22:45 < manveru> iant: thanks again
22:45 <+gri> tuples_: i.e., creating a new string from []byte requires a
copy.  creating a substring from a string doesn't (strings remain immutable)
22:45 -!- kim__ [n=kim@207-179-227-215.mtco.com] has joined #go-nuts
22:45 < feenode> wow 500 members already!
22:45 < tuples_> yes, I understood that part, that's awesome.
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22:45 < manveru> now i know why i never learned C...  all this explicit
22:46 < JonGretar> Well..  Go is cute.  At the moment I don't see myself
using it.  But it's on my watch list.  Kinda don't have any place to use it.
22:46 < groceryheist> Anyway, I am very excited about closures and
inheritance and speed and all that nifty stuff.  And since it's by google and an
all-star team of programmers I figure it will stick around for awhile.
22:46 < groceryheist> I also like implicit typing and having maps as a built
22:46 -!- rntz [n=rntz@pool-98-110-42-52.cmdnnj.fios.verizon.net] has left
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22:46 < manveru> can't go infer that if i return a string that i'd like to
return a string?
22:46 < jlouis> I like how the := operator is a poor-mans-type-inference for
instance :)
22:46 -!- bdd [n=bdd@204-15-3-164-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:46 < manveru> i mean, since the return statement is explicit already
22:47 < groceryheist> maps are pretty much my utility structure anyway.
22:47 <+iant> manveru: we do require explicit function signatures
22:47 < KirkMcDonald> manveru: I am seriously not a fan of this sort of
implicit type conversion.
22:47 < manveru> why conversion?
22:48 < KirkMcDonald> manveru: Better that it be explicit than it be unclear
what is going on with your data.
22:48 -!- dotsintacks [n=a@digsby05.rit.edu] has quit []
22:48 < manveru> return something_that_is_a_string ...  why would that
return something that's not a string?
22:48 < jlouis> KirkMcDonald: type reconstruction is a (PL) solution to that
problem which can also solve it.
22:48 < KirkMcDonald> manveru: Oh, I misunderstood what you were talking
22:48 < slide_rule> is there an interface that specifies that objects are
comparable?  for implementing i.e.  binary trees?
22:48 < KirkMcDonald> manveru: Yeah, type inference is good.
22:49 < nexneo> manveru: I see your point it something like :=
22:49 < nexneo> for func
22:49 <+iant> slide_rule: there is sort.Interface, as an example
22:49 < manveru> just the fact that the func has a return statement should
kick in inference
22:49 < eno> manveru: i don't think Go has full type inference
22:49 < KirkMcDonald> Go has very little type inference.
22:50 < manveru> hm :(
22:50 < KirkMcDonald> You can infer the types of variables from the types of
their initializers.  And that's about it.
22:50 < slide_rule> iant: yes - but that's for specifying that a collection
object is sortable, I'm looking for something that specs that an object can be
compared to others of the same type
22:50 -!- recover [n=recover@ip21278.lbinternet.se] has quit [Read error: 104
(Connection reset by peer)]
22:50 <+iant> slide_rule: ah, no, that is something that requires generic,
which we are still thinking about
22:51 < jlouis> iant: it sounds a lot like type classes
22:51 < KirkMcDonald> D's templates are probably its strongest feature.
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22:51 < KirkMcDonald> I believe that Go would benefit from the addition of
templates and (some) operator overloading.
22:51 < manveru> ok, i'll wait a year or two until go grows a bit...  i'm
not interested in writing boilerplate because the compiler is too lazy
22:52 < slide_rule> iant: so data structures would need to be type-specific?
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22:53 <+iant> slide_rule: or use interface{}
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22:53 < slide_rule> iant: and just use <, > and ==?
22:53 < Zarutian> hmm..  so the go operator is like the "branch both ways
opcode" ;Þ
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22:54 <+iant> slide_rule: no, you would have to write explicit method calls
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22:54 < jessta> I'm still trying to work out embeding, what is wrong with
this?  http://pastebin.com/d49b49fde
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22:55 < feenode> travisbrady: have you considered making go into whatever my
favorite pet language is?
22:55 < feenode> travisbrady: i think that is the best thing to do
22:56 <+iant> jessta: the comment is correct: embedding is not the same as
inheritance, and that approach is not supported in Go; sorry
22:56 < travisbrady> feenode: well what is your favorite pet language?
22:56 < jessta> iant: so what does embeding do?
22:57 < feenode> travisbrady: well, i've been writing an algol/prolog mixed
language and go should pretty much do everything that one does
22:57 <+iant> jessta: it lets you pick up the methods of the embedded type
as your own methods
22:57 < cking> feenode: I'm more of an INTERCAL fan myself
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22:57 <+iant> jessta: it's not the same as inheritance
22:57 <+iant> jessta: I'm not sure just how to describe without saying what
it does
22:58 <+iant> I think you are looking for an interface value
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22:58 < feenode> cking: is that the compiler don cheedle was working on
before he stopped development to star in hotel rawanda?
22:58 < feenode> cking: because i heard he is back to hacking on it full
22:58 < dw> jessta: for interfaces and structs, its mostly equivalent to
copy/pasting the body of the embedded object into the embeddee
22:58 <+iant> that is, given []SantasHelper, where SantasHelper is an
interface, you can assign a Reindeer to an element of that slice
22:58 < cking> lol
22:58 < dw> jessta: however, you also 'inherit' the methods that applied to
the embedded object too
22:58 <+iant> jessta: but you can't convert []Reindeer to []SantasHelper,
because those are slices with different element types
22:58 < uman> how can I make a Go program handle SIGINT ?
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22:59 <+iant> jessta: does that make sense?
22:59 < uman> in a way other than terminating
22:59 < dw> someone needs to write a Go lexicon :)
22:59 < vhold> Er, is that like inheritence but without any polymorphism?
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22:59 < dw> cat with bleeding paw, brb :(
22:59 < feenode> go-nuts?  why not stop with the euphemisms and just called
it gonoads
22:59 <+iant> vhold: yes; Go has inheritance via embedding and polymorphism
via interface types
22:59 <+iant> but they are not the same idea
22:59 < feenode> anyone who agrees with me, i'll be in #gonads
22:59 <+iant> uman: good question, I'm not sure
22:59 < Freeaqingme> linux_amd64.c:1: sorry, unimplemented: 64-bit mode not
compiled in << Wat do I forget?
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23:00 < vhold> So basically you can't override an implementaiton, but you
can implement an interface
23:00 -!- ctimmerm [n=ctimmerm@cs71226.pp.htv.fi] has joined #go-nuts
23:00 <+iant> Freeaqingme: are you using 6c instead of 6g?
23:00 -!- fhs [n=fhs@pool-72-89-195-252.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit
23:00 < groceryheist> Is it currently possible to do database programming
using GO?
23:00 < weggpod> how to assign value to Buffer type variable ?
23:00 -!- jfgiorgi [n=User@ant06-1-82-242-109-47.fbx.proxad.net] has left #go-nuts
23:00 <+iant> vhold: well, you can override an implementation by embedding
and then redefining a method
23:00 <+iant> groceryheist: there are no database connection libraries yet
23:00 < groceryheist> like with ODBC or something?
23:00 -!- JonGretar [n=jongreta@85-220-17-244.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit []
23:00 < groceryheist> ok
23:01 < jessta> iant: ah, I think I get it
23:01 < feenode> groceryheist: the go fork go-nads (go + numerics and
databases) does
23:01 < mrd`> groceryheist: You can use the file system just fine though.
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23:01 < groceryheist> thanks.
23:02 * kuroneko shakes his head
23:02 < Freeaqingme> iant, I just do ./all.bash ?
23:02 < epalm> so what about this guy whose language is called "Go!"
23:02 <+iant> Freeaqingme: to install, set up the environment variables, and
run all.bash
23:02 < epalm> any resolution there?
23:02 < Freeaqingme> iant,hmm, I will, tnx
23:02 < feenode> epalm: 1024x786
23:02 < uman> how can I check that there was no error on something that
returns an os.Error
23:02 < feenode> epalm: i think that was the resolution
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23:02 < uman> err == nil ?
23:02 < feenode> epalm: but you'll need to verify on the mailing list
23:02 < groceryheist> \whois mrd
23:02 <+iant> uman: yes
23:03 < epalm> feenode: ok thanks
23:03 < uman> iant: ty
23:03 <+iant> feenode: please stop randomizing
23:03 < kuroneko> the trolls have (predictably) descended.
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23:03 < uman> whoever is named ianto should change nick.  Not being able to
tab-complete iant is annoying
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23:03 < ianto> uman: do ian<TAB> then ;)
23:03 < feenode> iant: :<
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23:04 < uman> ianto, still doesn't work.  I guess that's what I get for
using Windows and its dearth of good IRC clients ;)
23:04 < ianto> uman: I'm using Windows....  + PuTTY + irssi ;)
23:05 < Freeaqingme> iant, I asked those Q's for MvdS, if there's anything
else, MvdS will ask them in here instead of me.  (and hi to MvdS )
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23:05 < eekee> menu completion is the feature y'all want.  one tab ->
iant, two tabs -> ianto
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23:05 < kuroneko> iant: how's the first day of madness going?  :)
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23:06 <+iant> kuroneko: very busy
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23:07 < MvdS> right, this is what I did: GOROOT=~/go; GOOS=linux;
GOARCH=amd64; hg clone ...  $GOROOT; cd ~/go/src; ./all.bash
23:07 -!- defectiv [n=clays@c-24-5-65-40.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
23:07 < Freeaqingme> and then you got the error about the 64bit mode not
compiled in, right?
23:07 -!- wtavares [n=wtavares@] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:07 < Freeaqingme> @ MvdS ^^
23:07 <+iant> MvdS: did you export the environment variables?
23:08 < MvdS> Freeaqingme, right, and now you tell me, I think I know the
23:08 < MvdS> iant, yes I did
23:08 -!- svanlund [n=david@cordelia.pingpangdns.com] has joined #go-nuts
23:08 < MvdS> sorry, but Freeaqingme was a bit quick to paste my errors here
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23:09 < MvdS> I'm working on my atom netbook at to moment, _obviously_ that
is not amd64 ;-)
23:09 < kuroneko> heh
23:09 < MvdS> so, i'll try again ;-)
23:09 -!- breeno [n=breeno@72-254-67-66.client.stsn.net] has quit [Client Quit]
23:09 < Freeaqingme> (I'm just the messenger!)
23:10 <+iant> MvdS: then set GOARCH=386
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23:11 < MvdS> I'm used to working with x86_64 for a long time now, I didn't
think about checking that at all
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23:12 < bakkdoor> hi, is there any emacs mode for go yet?
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23:12 -!- Rift [n=jhamilto@c-24-22-243-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit []
23:12 < vhold> Yes, in the misc dir
23:13 < mulander> bakkdoor: $src/misc/emacs/
23:13 < bakkdoor> mulander: ah great, thanks!
23:13 -!- faltad [n=user@lgp44-4-88-160-58-65.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts
23:14 < chrome> is it possible to be receiving messages from two channels at
a time in a single goroutine?
23:14 < jamesr> you can select on multiple channels
23:14 < jamesr> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Select_statements
23:14 -!- lenst [n=user@90-229-131-67-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts
23:15 < chrome> ah thanks
23:15 -!- kjk [n=Adium@] has quit ["Leaving."]
23:15 < dho> Anybody working on porting to FreeBSD at the moment?
23:15 -!- ayo [n=nya@f051102245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
23:16 <+iant> dho: I saw something about DragonFly, not sure about FreeBSD
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23:16 < dho> Alright, now you've seen something about FreeBSD :)
23:16 <+iant> cool
23:16 < blup> hello o.o
23:16 < hnsr> hi blup
23:16 < dwery> how do I obtain an array of all the keys of a map?
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23:17 -!- jh99 [n=jh99@g225035037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
23:17 < blup> id like to ask a question, i use gentoo linux does anyone know
if the go compiler is available in portage under any name?
23:17 <+iant> dwery: I think you have to use range to walk over the map
23:17 < dwery> iant: ty
23:17 -!- CheeToS [n=na@129-2-135-108.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #go-nuts
23:18 < wcn> blup: the only way to get the compiler now is from the Go site.
It's too volatile now for a distro.
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23:18 < kfx> iant: please never put exceptions in this language :)
23:18 < blup> okay thank you, i jsut wanted to be sure
23:18 < KirkMcDonald> Man.  There's a whole lotta vitrol in the Slashdot
23:19 < KirkMcDonald> But I guess that's Slashdot for you.
23:19 < mkanat> KirkMcDonald: Welcome to the Internet.
23:19 <+iant> kfx: noted
23:19 * mkanat nods.
23:19 < ap0th> how do you update?
23:19 -!- nexneo [n=niket@] has quit []
23:19 * freenose wonders how many users this channel had before the slashdot news
23:19 < wcn> freenose: about 100
23:19 <+iant> ap0th: how do you update the sources?  hg pull -u
23:19 < ponce> is there some doc about Go's relflection ?
23:19 < jcfiala> I'm amused by the problem with the other language named
Go!, and interested in seeing how it works out.
23:19 < ap0th> thanks
23:19 < ponce> reflection*
23:20 < wcn> ap0th: then wait the grueling 2 minutes to rebuild from source.
23:20 <+iant> ponce: look at pkg/reflect on the web site
23:20 < KirkMcDonald> freenose: Just channel is just barely a day old, of
23:20 < mkanat> iant: I think where exceptions are useful is where a single
function has a lot of truly exceptional (unusual) conditions that would be
inconvenient to check on function returns, but that sometimes you might want to
check specifically for.
23:20 < KirkMcDonald> freenose: s/Just/This/
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23:20 < bakkdoor> hi
23:20 -!- weggpod [n=weggpod@ivr94-12-78-224-16-145.fbx.proxad.net] has quit
[Remote closed the connection]
23:20 -!- KillerX1 [n=anant@145-116-234-40.uilenstede.casema.nl] has joined
23:20 < mkanat> iant: So any mechanism that would ease that sort of
situation would be just as welcome as an exception system is in other languages.
23:20 -!- bbeck [n=bbeck@dxr-fw.dxr.siu.edu] has quit ["leaving"]
23:20 < CallToPower> hi
23:20 < kfx> exceptions are useful when you can't be bothered to plan your
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23:21 < djm> dho: presumably not too hard to get it to get it to work on
freebsd - change all the /bin/bashes to /usr/local/bin/bash, fix the makefiles,
and that might be enough
23:21 < mkanat> kfx: Well, not necessarily.
23:21 <+iant> mkanat: I'm not sure what we could do better than some sort of
switch, I guess; perhaps there is something
23:21 < kfx> I'd hate to see Go crufted up in order to handhold the
23:21 <+iant> djm: there is a system call interface which would need some
23:21 < KirkMcDonald> kfx: No, I don't buy this argument at all.
23:21 < mkanat> iant: Well, one situation I'm thinking of is a WebServices
interface, where you need to catch and re-interpret any possible error condition
within a large framework with certain codes and so forth.
23:22 < scandal> question about type/assignment compat.  "named and an
unnamed type are compatible if the respective type literals are compatible".  it
seems like this should be legal, but the compiler complains: type T0 int; var a T0
= 1; b := 2; a = b;
23:22 -!- andrewh [n=andrewh@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read
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23:22 < vsmatck> One example I can think of that supports what kfx said is
this.  When I do a whole bunch of lexical casts in c++ (boost) I can wrap them all
in a try{}.  That would be very verbose without exceptions.
23:22 < mkanat> iant: Or other unusual interfaces into a program that aren't
its UI.
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23:22 < vsmatck> I do this a lot when dealing with database results.
23:22 -!- Jan_Flanders [n=chatzill@d54C1E33B.access.telenet.be] has joined
23:22 <+iant> scandal: "int" is a named type
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23:22 < mkanat> iant: But yeah, maybe there's some theoretical improvement
over exceptions.  There's a lot of interesting things in language design these
23:23 < mkanat> ("These days" sometimes being "1980".)
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23:23 < scandal> iant: ok, i guess i am confused on what an unnamed type is.
will read more.
23:23 < hjkhjh> hllo
23:23 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #go-nuts
23:23 < vhold> The thing I wish I could do, that might be a bit naive, is
just make entire classifications of failure fatal entirely or to contexts..
like..  all file IO failure means the whole thing falls over, and socket IO means
that channel dies..  etc..  and then almost never deal with error checking..
because those two things are pretty much all I ever do..  failure is generally
23:23 < djm> iant: well, freebsd has a linux compatibility thing, so that
might provide a temporary solution, no?
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["WeeChat 0.3.0"]
23:24 < mkanat> iant: Perhaps the concept could be something like "anything
that could be exceptional should go into a goroutine that ends under exceptional
23:24 <+iant> vhold: one approach for that is to do most of your work in a
goroutine; if something goes wrong, send a failure notice on a channel and
runtime.Goexit(); then you don't have to pass errors up a chain
23:24 < dho> djm: no, there's some machdep stuff
23:24 <+iant> djm: quite possible, I don't know enough to say one way or
23:24 -!- ahf [i=ahf@irssi/staff/ahf] has joined #go-nuts
23:24 < dho> djm: luckily russ already did most of that work in plan 9 port
23:24 < mkanat> iant: That doesn't solve the "I need to re-interpret this
error" case, but it does solve the "this stuff we really don't expect to happen"
23:24 * dho is familiar enough with plan 9 / rsc's past work that it shouldn't be
too big of an issue.
23:24 <+iant> mkanat: yes, that approach does handle some cases
23:24 -!- aaront [n=aaront@d24-141-25-171.home.cgocable.net] has joined #go-nuts
23:24 <+gri> scandal: a named type is a type that got a name - either a
built-in type or any type that is declared with a type declaration.  hope that
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23:25 < dho> I just need to figure out what's different about go's libmach
than p9p's
23:25 < chrome> there is also goto :P
23:25 < scandal> gri: how do you make an unnamed type?  is that a result of
using literals only?
23:25 < dho> and possibly some other stuff for channel / `goroutine'
23:25 < dho> but it shouldn't be so bad.
23:25 -!- sg [n=sg@] has joined #go-nuts
23:25 < KirkMcDonald> Just don't do operations which could possibly result
in errors.
23:25 < KirkMcDonald> Clearly.
23:25 < vsmatck> hah
23:25 < sg> mmm hi
23:25 < ap0th> 2 minutes and still compiling...
23:26 < ap0th> <---crossing fingers
23:26 < kuroneko> KirkMcDonald: kinda hard where nopping can potentially
result in errors.
23:26 <+gri> scandal: an "unnamed type" is something like []int, e.g.  used
in an expression, say: x := []int{1, 2, 3};
23:26 < kuroneko> ;)
23:26 < mkanat> KirkMcDonald: I don't think a perfect void exists.
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23:26 < bobappleyard1> mkanat: how philosophical
23:26 < sg> is there plans to have a Go port to Win32 platforms?
23:26 < mkanat> bobappleyard1: :-)
23:26 < scandal> gri: ah ok, that explains the example in the spec about
type T0 []string; being compatible with []string;
23:27 < ajray> sg check the mailing list
23:27 < scandal> gri: thanks :)
23:27 <+iant> sg: we would love to see that happen, but we are unlikely to
do it ourselves
23:27 < matei> are there any samples of long programs in Go that do
nontrivial and thorough error handling?  I'm curious to see how the lack of
exceptions works out in practice when you compensate for it with the other
language features
23:27 < dho> ajray: fancy seeing you here.
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23:27 < Freeaqingme> iant, does Google use Go itself in any apps that have
real meaning?
23:27 < ayo> matei, is there goto?  :>
23:27 -!- SiegeLord [n=siege@pool-71-124-166-56.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has
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23:27 <+iant> matei: the Go libary does plenty of error handling
23:27 < KirkMcDonald> matei: Based on my limited experience so far, it ends
up smelling a lot like C error handline.
23:27 <+iant> matei: not sure if that is what you are looking for
23:27 <+gri> scandal: for instance: type T []int; x := T{1, 2, 3}; // x has
a named type (T); but y := []int{1, 2 3}, y has an unnamed type ([]int).
23:28 < KirkMcDonald> handling*
23:28 < uriel> sg: andguent already started to look into doing a win32 port
23:28 -!- lindsayd [n=lindsayd@nat/cisco/x-fkazxdzojpqgjbyp] has joined #go-nuts
23:28 < uriel> sg: I'm sure he would love to get help ;)
23:28 <+iant> Freeaqingme: the language is still experimental, so other than
golang.org itself, no, not really
23:28 < mkanat> KirkMcDonald: Well, my major feeling about Go right now is
that it is indeed a replacement for C, so....
23:28 <+gri> scandal: x and y are assignment compatible
23:28 <+iant> ayo: yes
23:28 < droid0011> anybody got gccgo compiled?  I folowed the web
instuctions, but it seems to be broken ...
23:28 < sg> iant how much of Go src is OS dependant?  are changes to make it
happen only needed on the code generator or everywhere?
23:28 < mkanat> KirkMcDonald: And it does say "systems programming language"
pretty clearly.  :-)
23:28 < KirkMcDonald> mkanat: True.
23:28 < kuroneko> droid0011: got it compiling now..
23:29 < vsmatck> It doesn't seem like a replacement for C or C++ because it
sacrifices speed.  Is my thinking incorrect?
23:29 <+iant> droid0011: may be best to send e-mail to the list with a
description of your problems
23:29 < ayo> iant, oh...  that's a surprise
23:29 < kuroneko> it's still somewhere compiling the C frontend.
23:29 <+iant> sg: mostly the low level runtime library
23:29 < scandal> gri: thanks for the example, that helps a bunch
23:29 < mkanat> vsmatck: Well, it's certainly a very new language.  But it's
compiled, not interpreted, so it could be competetive.
23:29 < droid0011> iant: ok
23:29 <+iant> vsmatck: it sacrifices some speed, but not very much; that may
rule it out for some uses but not others
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23:29 < mkanat> vsmatck: The only advantage that C has is about 30 years of
compiler work.
23:30 < ahf> has anyone written Vim files for Go, yet?
23:30 < wcn> ahf: in the misc directory.
23:30 < ajray> ahf check misc/vim/
23:30 < ahf> awesome.
23:30 <+iant> that should be a FAQ, I guess
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23:30 < ajray> iant and maybe the FAQ should be in the topic
23:30 < vsmatck> Ahh, so perhaps it would displace C and C++ to some degree
for some tasks.  I'm thinking an exception might be a modern game engine.  It
doesn't seem like it could displace C++ for that task.
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23:31 < bobappleyard1> vsmatck: given easy support for concurreny, a game
engine might a be a good place for it
23:31 < kuroneko> I'm personally hoping it'll displace perl/python for
intermediate sized projects
23:31 < KirkMcDonald> vsmatck: At least not until the C interoperability
23:31 <+iant> vsmatck: in any case we're not trying to displace C/C++, just
providing an alternative
23:31 < ajray> kuroneko: me too.
23:31 -!- nuggien [n=dnguyen@nat.electric-cloud.com] has joined #go-nuts
23:31 < blup> thats wkat i was thinking kuroneko
23:31 < scandal> iant: i might suggest adding instructions in the go.vim
file about how to use it.  took a minute for me to figure that part out.
23:31 < ajray> i can see myself being much more productive and efficient
using go
23:32 < ajray> scandal: add it to your filetypes.vim?
23:32 < blup> a MINUTE?
23:32 <+iant> scandal: I have no idea how to use it, but if you want to
patch the file, that would be great; see http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html
23:32 -!- KillerX [n=anant@gentoo/developer/KillerX] has quit [Read error: 110
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23:32 < vsmatck> Hmm, I suppose it doesn't have to be all or nothing either.
A lot of games use LUA.  Not every task within a game requires maximum speed.
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23:32 < blup> time will tell
23:32 < scandal> ajray: i dropped in ~/.vim/syntax/ and made a
23:32 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@p4FE75383.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
23:33 < vsmatck> I'm not making an argument or anything.  Just thinking
about someone else's question out loud.
23:33 < KirkMcDonald> au BufRead,BufNewFile *.go set filetype=go
23:33 -!- DeFender1031 [n=danf@pool-70-17-124-217.res.east.verizon.net] has joined
23:33 < KirkMcDonald> (In the ftdetect/go.vim file.)
23:33 < scandal> KirkMcDonald: that's exactly what i used :)
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23:34 < RicardoC> Is it possible to install on windows xp already?:P
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23:34 < bobappleyard1> RicardoC: tried cygwin?
23:34 < mkanat> vsmatck: Perhaps a Go++ with exceptions and inheritance
would be a competitor for C++.  But that's not even really something to think
about right now.
23:35 < mkanat> vsmatck: And I get the impression it's something the current
Go team wouldn't be interested in, though I could be wrong.
23:35 < kuroneko> ugh.  noo~
23:35 < KirkMcDonald> Inheritance?
23:35 < vsmatck> I'm quite convinced that the behavior of inheritence can be
accomplished effectively in go.
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23:35 < vsmatck> Exceptions don't seem stricly necessary.  They only make
error handling easier it seems.
23:35 < mkanat> vsmatck: It can be accomplished effectively in C, too, it's
just a matter of how much the language assists you.
23:35 < RicardoC> @ bobappleyard1, I would like to try it a the moment..
but the at the moment I can't connect to a website while irc works perfectly :p
23:35 < hnsr> check 44.11 in the vim user manual on how to properly install
syntax files
23:35 < kuroneko> I disagree about the error handling
23:36 < bobappleyard1> full continuation support would be better than
special casing exceptions if you were going to extend it that way
23:36 < kuroneko> C-style error handling is perfectly fine
23:36 < mkanat> vsmatck: Well, that's one of the purposes of a programming
language--possibly the only purpose--to make programming easier.  :-)
23:36 < ayo> RicardoC, virtualbox + ubunto ;>
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23:36 < vsmatck> mkanat: indeed :)
23:36 < ayo> *u
23:37 < vsmatck> iant: Thinking about what you said.  Offering an
alternative to C is displacing C if you plan on having > 0 users.  Not picking
a fight just thinking about the logic of what was said.
23:38 -!- xuwen [n=xuwen@adsl-99-157-74-219.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined
23:38 < vsmatck> I'm all for better tools anyways.  I guess programming
languages are complicated tools.  Not easy to always know exactly what they're
for.  :)
23:38 < bobappleyard1> vsmatck: it's not necessarily zero sum though, the
pool of programmers in this domain may increase
23:38 < Freeaqingme> vsmatck, one could use C as well for webapps.  Making C
an alternative to PHP...  ;)
23:39 <+iant> vsmatck: not if the pie keeps growing higher
23:39 < vsmatck> bobappleyard1: Ahh!  Your point about the non-zerosum'ness
is well taken.
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23:39 < chrome> vsmatck: have you written any go yet?
23:39 < vsmatck> chrome: ya, I've been messing with the networking.
23:39 < chrome> vsmatck: same; I really like goroutines.
23:40 < chrome> I understand its similar to erlang.
23:40 < vsmatck> I haven't started a goroutine yet.  I'm struggling a bit
23:40 < blup> pure conjecture on your part
23:40 -!- ikke [n=1kk3@unaffiliated/ikkebr] has joined #go-nuts
23:40 < chrome> vsmatck: really?  I'll share this telnet talker in a minute
once it's working right
23:40 < bobappleyard1> not messed around with goroutines yet, although i
made my own implementation of channels in common lisp after watching rob pike's
talk on newsqueak
23:40 < vsmatck> goroutines are similar to lightweight threads I think.
It's a highly appealing part of the language to me.
23:40 < eno> chrome: it's definitely different from erlang
23:41 -!- cmarcelo [n=cmarcelo@] has joined
23:41 < vhold> When a company like google releases something like this, I
always feel better when there's a transparently selfish motive stated :)
23:41 < eno> other than the light weight
23:41 -!- dju [i=dju@ip-39.net-80-236-37.suresnes.rev.numericable.fr] has joined
23:41 < chrome> eno: yeah, wouldn't know.  I'm a C monkey.
23:41 < bobappleyard1> so i'm aware of some of the semantics
23:41 < uriel> go should kill java and c++, and that alone will make the
world a hugely better place
23:41 < eno> erlang is all about async message sending
23:41 < chrome> uriel: amen
23:41 < vsmatck> pff!
23:41 < bobappleyard1> uriel is already a go bigot, class
23:41 < mkanat> vhold: I think "a systems language with memory safety" is
enough motive all by itself.
23:42 < eno> imo you can build sync communication from async
23:42 < ajray> why mercurial?
23:42 < eno> but not the other way
23:42 < vsmatck> If you have more tools in your shed you're more likely to
have a tool better suited to a particular task.  That's how I'm thinking about it.
23:42 < uriel> bobappleyard1: I'm not a go bigot, I have been an anti c++
and anti java bigot for many years, go simply has given me hope that something
sane could kill them
23:42 -!- jcfiala [n=jfiala@] has left #go-nuts []
23:42 < ajray> does google prefer mercurial over git?
23:42 < vhold> mkanat: Yes, but why take on the burden of releasing it?  I'm
sure we can think of tons of them, but I like it when they state it :)
23:42 < uriel> mkanat: that is true too,
23:42 < bobappleyard1> uriel: ok.  respectable opinion
23:43 < bobappleyard1> uriel: i find those two languages fairly revolting as
23:43 < dho> uriel: it's like your birthday.
23:43 < dho> bobappleyard1: don't give uriel too much leeway :)
23:43 < bobappleyard1> hehe
23:43 * mkanat doesn't really object to Java.  It has one of the best standard
libraries of any language and it has really good Unicode support.
23:43 <+robpike> ajray: code.google.com supports only svn and mercurial.
mercurial made it easier for us to tie in the codereview stuff.  thtat's why it's
23:44 < mkanat> But nobody's going to be writing systems-level code in Java.
23:44 < eno> interesting to see how goroutine might be applied to
distributed env, where network can be unreliable
23:44 < uriel> dho: I swear that yesterday, when I first read about go, i
thought it was a miracle of god/glenda/ken, and answer to my prayers for revenge
against all the evil in the software industry
23:44 < kfx> it *needs* that standard library, because most of its users
can't code anything themselves
23:44 < dho> uriel: :)
23:44 -!- Iulius [n=wtf@] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:44 < bobappleyard1> uriel: is rob pike your god?
23:44 < chrome> if I have an array, foo []Mytype, how do I add stuff to that
23:44 < blup> you like underestimating people kfx
23:44 < uriel> bobappleyard1: hah, nah, ken maybe ;P
23:44 < mkanat> kfx: Standard libraries exist so that you don't have to
code.  Do you think every component of every program should be built from the
ground up?
23:44 -!- delza [n=delza@d66-183-63-49.bchsia.telus.net] has quit []
23:44 -!- bovv [n=crow@p2016-ipbf806yosida.nagano.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error:
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23:44 < kfx> blup: it's impossible to underestimate java
23:45 < kfx> mkanat: nice straw man attempt
23:45 < uriel> it is impossible to understimate how much damage java has
done to the world, many hundreds of billions of $ completely wasted because of it
23:45 < uriel> (c++ might have been even more harmful)
23:45 < mkanat> uriel: Well, what do you think is specifically wrong with
Java, as a language (not as a platform)?
23:45 < kfx> not to mention huge swaths of my time
23:46 < chrome> can anyone answer my go related question?
23:46 < blup> i think it was worth a shot, they could have never known if
they didnt try
23:46 < sg> why do you think java has damaged the world, uriel?
23:46 < dho> chrome: that's not an array, that's a slice
23:46 -!- dw [n=dw@unaffiliated/dw] has left #go-nuts []
23:46 < chrome> dho: ok, so how can I add stuff to it?
23:46 < dho> arrays have specified sizes
23:46 < kuroneko> oh geez - somebody's set uriel off again...
23:46 < uriel> mkanat: this is offtopic, sorry for getting carried away
23:46 < mkanat> uriel: Okay, agreed.
23:47 < chrome> dho: I want to be able to store an arbitrary number of
Mytypes in foo
23:47 < bakkdoor> when i want to compile a hello world programm, i get the
following error: "test.go:3: fatal error: can't find import: fmt".  any
environment variables that need to be set besides $GOROOT ?
23:47 -!- tasklist7_ [n=tasklist@] has joined #go-nuts
23:47 < doublec> chrome, you might want
23:47 < ayo> "many hundreds of billions of $ completely wasted"...  oh what
a pile of bs :D
23:47 < chrome> doublec: thanks :)
23:47 < doublec> which is a dynamically sized vector
23:47 < dho> chrome: http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#slices
23:47 < dho> but what doublec said
23:47 -!- AakashPatel [n=AakashPa@unaffiliated/aakashpatel] has joined #go-nuts
23:47 < chrome> dho: yeah, that doc doesnt help me
23:47 -!- AakashPatel [n=AakashPa@unaffiliated/aakashpatel] has left #go-nuts
23:47 -!- cying [n=cying@] has quit []
23:47 -!- JohnNy_cz [i=JohnNy_c@jhn4.kolej.mff.cuni.cz] has quit []
23:47 < droid0011> ajray: you can easy convert the hg repo to git
23:48 <+robpike> chrome: you can't add to a slice in general because it's
got underlying data that simple appending would overwrite.  you need new storage.
see that slices discussion dho sent.  also look at the implementation of bytes.Add
and how it uses capacity
23:48 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@i577BA04E.versanet.de] has joined #go-nuts
23:49 -!- Lorthirk [n=cm0901@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection
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23:49 -!- hyperstream [n=Stream@] has joined #go-nuts
23:49 <+robpike> chrome: in other words, you can sometimes append without
allocation, sometimes not.  strings are different because they are immutable and
appending can work simply by +
23:49 -!- RayNbow [i=kirika@scientia.demon.nl] has quit ["When science finally
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23:50 < chrome> so arrays are more like C arrays?
23:50 -!- hensonsturg [n=henson@68-119-32-060.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined
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23:50 < blup> whats wrong with the mercurial repository
23:50 <+iant> chrome: yes, except when passing them to a function--they are
passed by value, not reference
23:50 < chrome> gotya
23:50 <+robpike> chrome: arrays are like C arrays - just storage - but - BIG
BUT - when you pass one around it's a copy, not the address of the first element
23:51 -!- robertpateii [n=robertpa@207-114-244-5.static.twtelecom.net] has quit
23:51 < vhold> Unless you pass around a reference or a slice..  ?
23:51 <+robpike> chrome: see effective go
23:51 < blup> btw : 0 known bugs; 0 unexpected bugs; test output differs
<- is that test output thing fine?
23:51 < chrome> it might be worth noting that vector exists in the effective
go tute :)
23:51 < vhold> The notion of slices as references is one of the more novel
things to me..  if I have that right..
23:51 <+iant> vhold: yes, slices are a reference type
23:51 -!- RicardoC [n=blaat@53547AF9.cable.casema.nl] has quit []
23:51 <+iant> blup: that seems unusual--the test output diff should appear
just before that line
23:51 <+robpike> vhold: yes, reference and an attempt to split C arrays into
two separate concepts that work well
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23:52 < alexsuraci> iant: i had the same thing as blup on two different
23:52 -!- _ivo_ [i=5f5f993f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ymmreghktiwpbmyq] has joined
23:52 < blup> > panic PC=xxx
23:52 < blup> it says this first
23:52 < alexsuraci> that too
23:52 <+iant> OK, that kind of diff is not too important
23:52 <+robpike> blup: what's $GOARCH
23:52 <+iant> it may indicate some problem in the stack backtracer, but that
is not a very big deal
23:52 -!- swolchok [n=swolchok@li45-103.members.linode.com] has joined #go-nuts
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23:53 -!- plainhao [n=plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has joined #go-nuts
23:53 <+robpike> blup: some of the tests deliberately crash.  it can
probably be ignored.
23:53 < blup> okay thank you it seems to work
23:53 < blup> goarch is amd64 btw
23:54 -!- Irssi: #go-nuts: Total of 513 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 5 voices, 508
23:54 -!- me___|ugrad-lab [i=[U2FsdGV@batman.acm.jhu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
23:54 < chrome> ooh, vector.Do - nice
23:54 < _ivo_> hey guys!  is anyone working on a database connection
23:55 -!- marclurr [n=marclurr@cpc2-walt12-2-0-cust386.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com]
has joined #go-nuts
23:55 < me___|ugrad-lab> _ivo_: a number of people
23:55 <+iant> _ivo_: several people have mentioned it, not sure if anyone is
working on it yet
23:55 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has joined #go-nuts
23:55 < ajray> droid0011: is it possible to submit code (contribute) using
that though?
23:55 <+robpike> blup: hmmm.  linux or darwin?
23:55 < blup> linux
23:55 <+robpike> blup: version?
23:55 < blup> what linux version?
23:55 <+robpike> robpike: yes
23:55 < ajray> robpike: is there a go syntax parser?  that one could use to
make a ctags clone (gotags)?
23:55 <+robpike> ajray: package go
23:56 < kuroneko> oh neat, there is a json package already
23:56 <+robpike> blup: yes which linux version?
23:56 < hnsr> I think I got the same output as blup on my linux amd64 system
23:56 < blup> 2.6.28
23:56 -!- freeksh0w86 [n=chatzill@] has joined #go-nuts
23:56 -!- dchest [n=dchest@] has quit []
23:56 < blup> yes its getnoo
23:56 -!- creack [n=creack@ip-67.net-80-236-112.lhaylesroses.rev.numericable.fr]
has joined #go-nuts
23:56 <+iant> hnsr: blup: which glibc version?  (run /lib64/libc.so.6)
23:56 <+robpike> blup: yes, i think you're ok.  some linux versions vary in
how signals behave and it confuses the run time.  shouldn't be an issue for
non-crashing programs.  safe to ignore i believe.
23:57 < marclurr> anyone done anything cool with go yet?
23:57 < blup> glibc 2.11
23:57 <+iant> thx
23:57 < blup> i jsut asked cause it wasnt the exact thing it said in the
23:57 -!- base3 [n=base3@host81-141-239-146.wlms-broadband.com] has joined
23:57 <+iant> might be worth opening an issue on this, with all that info
23:57 < base3> ..  ...  ...  ...  ..  . ..  ....  .....  .....
23:57 < base3> ...  ....  ....  .....  .%/\ ..  ....  .....  .....  .
23:57 < base3> . ...  ...  ...  ..  .%./ &.  ....  ......  ....  ...
23:57 < base3> ..  ....  ..  ...  .%**/ \ .....  .....  ....
23:57 -!- tasklist7 [n=tasklist@] has joined #go-nuts
23:57 < base3> ....  ....  ..  .%***/ &.  .....  .....  ...  .
23:57 -!- punya [n=punya@c-24-19-57-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
23:57 < base3> ......  ....  . .%.***/ .d99b_ \ . ......  ...  ....
23:58 < base3> .......  .%*****/ -' `'.&.  .....  ...  .....
23:58 < base3> ..  ..  .%******/ ._."""'~::, \ . ...  .....  .
23:58 < base3> .......  .%*******/._'` .'"^':, :.,&.  . ....  .....
23:58 < base3> ...  .%********/',_-^{ ( ) } :.\ ........  ..
23:58 < base3> ..  .%*********/%^ '.  .' ;.&.  . ...  ....
23:58 < base3> . .%**********/; ".,." ;#.\ . . .....
23:58 < base3> .%***********/ ~'.,,.  ,.-'^ &.  . ...  ..
23:58 < base3> .%************/ ""-.,.-""~ \ . . ..
23:58 < base3> .%*************/ &.  ..  ..
23:58 < base3> %**************/ \ ...
23:58 < chrome> fail.
23:58 < marclurr> +1
23:58 < bobappleyard1> ouch
23:58 < hnsr> libc version: http://pastie.org/694635
23:58 < kfx> heh
23:58 -!- Obiru [n=Obiru@114-30-97-73.ip.adam.com.au] has joined #go-nuts
23:58 -!- sg [n=sg@] has left #go-nuts []
23:58 < chrome> how do you create a func on the fly for a vector.Do ? :)
23:59 < chrome> like, an inline func.
23:59 < bobappleyard1> just write it
23:59 < punya> Why is a *vector.Vector not a heap.Interface?  Supposedly the
signatures for Push don't match up but could someone explain how they differ?
23:59 < bobappleyard1> anonymous functions are supported
23:59 < olegfink> chrome:
23:59 < base3> ..  ...  ...  ...  ..  . ..  ....  .....  .....
23:59 <+robpike> chrome: see the container/vector test.  it contains a nice
23:59 < base3> ...  ....  ....  .....  .%/\ ..  ....  .....  .....  .
23:59 < base3> . ...  ...  ...  ..  .%./ &.  ....  ......  ....  ...
23:59 < base3> ..  ....  ..  ...  .%**/ \ .....  .....  ....
23:59 < base3> ....  ....  ..  .%***/ &.  .....  .....  ...  .
23:59 < base3> ......  ....  . .%.***/ .d99b_ \ . ......  ...  ....
23:59 < base3> .......  .%*****/ -' `'.&.  .....  ...  .....
23:59 < base3> ..  ..  .%******/ ._."""'~::, \ . ...  .....  .
23:59 < jamesr> base3: cut that out
23:59 < base3> .......  .%*******/._'` .'"^':, :.,&.  . ....  .....
23:59 < base3> ...  .%********/',_-^{ ( ) } :.\ ........  ..
23:59 < base3> ..  .%*********/%^ '.  .' ;.&.  . ...  ....
23:59 < Freeaqingme> iant, /msg chanserv op #go-nuts
23:59 < base3> . .%**********/; ".,." ;#.\ . . .....
23:59 < base3> .%***********/ ~'.,,.  ,.-'^ &.  . ...  ..
23:59 < base3> .%************/ ""-.,.-""~ \ . . ..
23:59 < base3> .%*************/ &.  ..  ..
--- Day changed Thu Nov 12 2009
00:00 < base3> %**************/ \ ...
00:00 < Freeaqingme> iant, /kick #go-nuts base3
00:00 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+o iant] by ChanServ
00:00 < chrome> /kb would be better
00:00 < chrome> assuming sensible irc client
00:00 -!- base3 was kicked from #go-nuts by iant [#go-nuts]
00:00 < marclurr> :)
00:00 -!- Fish- [n=Fish@] has joined #go-nuts
00:00 * SRabbelier mutters some more about having to export GOOS-es without having
a goose export license, that might be illegal!
00:00 <@iant> Freeaqingme: thanks
00:01 < Freeaqingme> yw
00:01 -!- base3 [n=base3@host81-141-239-146.wlms-broadband.com] has joined
00:01 < base3> ..  ...  ...  ...  ..  . ..  ....  .....  .....
00:01 < base3> ...  ....  ....  .....  .%/\ ..  ....  .....  .....  .
00:01 < base3> . ...  ...  ...  ..  .%./ &.  ....  ......  ....  ...
00:01 < base3> ..  ....  ..  ...  .%**/ \ .....  .....  ....
00:01 < base3> ....  ....  ..  .%***/ &.  .....  .....  ...  .
00:01 < danderson> iant: /ban base3
00:01 < red1> LOL
00:01 < base3> ......  ....  . .%.***/ .d99b_ \ . ......  ...  ....
00:01 < Freeaqingme> iant, kickban ;)
00:01 < base3> .......  .%*****/ -' `'.&.  .....  ...  .....
00:01 < soul9> ☺
00:01 < base3> ..  ..  .%******/ ._."""'~::, \ . ...  .....  .
00:01 < base3> .......  .%*******/._'` .'"^':, :.,&.  . ....  .....
00:01 < base3> ...  .%********/',_-^{ ( ) } :.\ ........  ..
00:01 < base3> ..  .%*********/%^ '.  .' ;.&.  . ...  ....
00:01 < base3> . .%**********/; ".,." ;#.\ . . .....
00:01 < antarus_> iant: you can just do /mode +q base3 ;)
00:01 -!- Fish [n=Fish@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset
by peer)]
00:01 < base3> .%***********/ ~'.,,.  ,.-'^ &.  . ...  ..
00:01 < base3> .%************/ ""-.,.-""~ \ . . ..
00:01 < base3> .%*************/ &.  ..  ..
00:01 < base3> %**************/ \ ...
00:01 < base3> iant: get your act together
00:01 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+b %base3!*@*] by iant
00:01 < danderson> base3: how about you just go away instead :)
00:01 < Freeaqingme> :D
00:02 < jamesr> this is what you get for doing all the hard work of getting
a project open sourced :)
00:02 <@iant> I'm not an experienced IRC op, I'm afraid
00:02 < red1> could it be a bot?
00:02 < DeFender1031> that ascii art isn't even very good...  i mean, at
least do something imaginative...
00:02 -!- epalm [n=epalm@utl-192-234.library.utoronto.ca] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:02 < creack> do google go run on freebsd?
00:02 < danderson> iant: want a hand?  I'm happy to help shut up spammers.
00:02 < JBeshir> Is there anything wrong with "parameters :=
strings.Split(line, " ", 0); if (parameters[0] == "PING") { /* Do stuff */ }
00:02 < hnsr> is it a piramid?
00:02 < Freeaqingme> it's a fail
00:02 <@iant> danderson: sure, thanks
00:02 -!- tedster [n=tedster@cpe-008051.dhcp008.wadsnet.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:02 < antarus_> iant: plenty of irc folk around ;)
00:02 < JBeshir> It isn't working, and I'm beginning to think I'm missing
something stupid.
00:02 -!- antarus_ is now known as antarus
00:03 -!- destreet [n=david@99-68-42-244.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has
joined #go-nuts
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00:03 < plainhao> try leaving out the parentheses in the if conditional
00:03 * antarus is actually surprised at the lack of trouble ;)
00:03 -!- bpot [n=bpot@] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:03 < mkanat> antarus: Usually FreeNode is pretty tame.
00:03 -!- andrewh_ [n=andrewh@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined
00:03 < glewis> anyone know if the emacs go-mode can indent with spaces
instead of a hard tab when I hit the TAB key?  I've looked through the .el and
couldn't figure it out, and it's not based on c-mode.
00:03 -!- Obiru [n=Obiru@114-30-97-73.ip.adam.com.au] has left #go-nuts []
00:03 -!- marclurr [n=marclurr@cpc2-walt12-2-0-cust386.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com]
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00:03 < JBeshir> plainhao: Doesn't seem to have done anything.
00:03 -!- base3 [n=base3@host81-141-239-146.wlms-broadband.com] has left #go-nuts
00:03 < mkanat> glewis: gofmt uses tabs.
00:03 <+robpike> JBeshir: looks reasonable.  you don't ned parens on if.
what's happening?
00:03 < punya> I think my question might have got lost because of all the
surrounding ascii-art spam, so I'll repeat:
00:04 < punya> Why is a *vector.Vector not a heap.Interface?  Supposedly the
signatures for Push don't match up but could someone explain how they differ?
00:04 < JBeshir> robpike: The "if" is failing to execute when it is PING; or
at least looks a lot like it on output.
00:04 < JBeshir> An additional thing I've found is that fmt.Printf("%c\n",
parameters[0][0]) seems to print nothing at all when it happens.
00:04 < DrNach> JBeshir: conditionals don't have paranthesis around them in
00:05 -!- mib_mib [n=chatzill@c-98-245-57-255.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit
[Remote closed the connection]
00:05 < jamesr> the ()s make no difference here, since they're around an
00:05 <+robpike> JBeshir: after calling strings.Split, fmt.Printf("%#v\n",
00:05 < JBeshir> Taking the parens out didn't change anything; I assume they
just were redundant in that context.
00:05 <+robpike> you will see exactly what you have in the split array
00:05 < jamesr> it's like doing if ( (true) ) in C or something
00:05 < SRabbelier> mhhh, compiling go itself takes quite a while (but still
under a few minutes), although I can't imagine how long it'd take to compile say
gcc :P
00:06 < blup> takes me over an hour to bootstrap gcc
00:06 < SRabbelier> wow, yup, I managed to clone, configure, and make go in
under 5 minutes, awesome :D
00:06 < JBeshir> The array looks completely empty.
00:06 < destreet> Is there a list of current packages under development?
00:06 < chrome> what am I doing wrong here: http://pastie.org/694642 (inline
00:06 < blup> SRabbelier, id assume thats not a go features, the compiler is
jsut small
00:06 <+robpike> JBeshir: well that's your problem :)
00:06 < SRabbelier> blup: how is that not a feature?  :P
00:07 <+robpike> robpike: a couple more prints should figure it out
00:07 <@iant> punya: good question, I'm not sure offhand
00:07 < SRabbelier> blup: means it's easy to port :)
00:07 < JBeshir> Well, like it contains a huge nulled string.
00:07 <@iant> /msg chanserv access #go-nuts add danderson +VotsriRfA
00:07 <+robpike> JBeshir: define "nulled".  go does not use \0 in strings
00:07 < blup> i thought you were referring to the face that go says it
compiles things fast
00:07 < blup> fact
00:07 < mkanat> iant: Mmm, I think you may want to change your password now.
00:07 -!- juan22arg [n=juan@] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:07 -!- MvdS [n=moshe@] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:08 < mkanat> iant: Oh, wait, that's not your password, is it?
00:08 -!- peloverde [n=alex@cpe-173-88-148-20.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
00:08 < antarus> mkanat: nope
00:08 -!- panaggio [n=panaggio@200-158-190-234.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined
00:08 <@iant> mkanat: nope, it's some magic string, I hope
00:08 -!- hiromtz [n=hiromtz@h028.p027.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts
00:08 < mkanat> That's strange Freenode permissions strings.
00:08 < jamesr> that's a perm string
00:08 < JBeshir> robpike: Yeah, they're getting in there anyway.  I think my
reading code is broke.
00:08 < danderson> iant: yeah, nothing confidential.  Weird your irc client
made that a litteral / though.
00:08 < mkanat> That is weird.
00:08 < SRabbelier> anyone have me some Make rules for building go programs
that I can just stuff in some directory?
00:08 < kuroneko> there's garbage on the start of the line
00:08 < danderson> iant: open a query to chanserv, and paste in everything
from the 'access' keyword on.
00:08 <+robpike> JBeshir: well use %#v to print stuff and you'll get
go-syntax output, very clear and helpful when you have empty strings and so on
00:08 < kuroneko> that's why
00:09 < JBeshir> robpike: Thanks for that.
00:09 < chrome> robpike: mind taking a look at my pastie?  it is whinging
about send_message and clients
00:09 < SRabbelier> wow
00:09 < SRabbelier> I are the blind
00:09 <+robpike> chrome: sure
00:09 -!- lenst [n=user@90-229-131-67-no52.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error:
110 (Connection timed out)]
00:09 <+robpike> chrome: remind me please
00:09 < chrome> http://pastie.org/694642
00:10 -!- ajray [n=alex@nom23228b.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit ["Leaving."]
00:10 < chrome> line 11 and 19 in that paste
00:10 < destreet> Is anyone working on a mysql package?
00:10 < mkanat> destreet: Well, ideally one would be able to link the MySQL
C library, no?
00:11 -!- jcgregorio_ [n=chatzill@] has joined #go-nuts
00:11 < blup> gogo bindings ;p
00:11 <+robpike> chrome: you can't write a func declaration inside a func.
instead of what you have define a var: send_message := func(....) { }
00:11 < kuroneko> mkanat: there are type problems there though
00:11 <+robpike> chrome: functions are always a little different
00:11 < chrome> arr, ok
00:11 < kuroneko> as well as ABI problems unless you're using gccgo
00:11 -!- leitz [n=leam@] has joined #go-nuts
00:12 <+robpike> chrome you could also just write the func as an expression
inside Do()
00:12 < destreet> I was hoping for something more elegant for mysql.  More
like with ruby.
00:12 < chrome> robpike: was kind of hoping that was the case but couldn't
see how to do it
00:12 < mkanat> destreet: Well, those are wrapping the C library, somewhere
at the bottom.
00:13 -!- Fermat [n=none@LINERVA.MIT.EDU] has joined #go-nuts
00:13 < mkanat> destreet: So they all depend upon the language's ability to
use native code outside of the language's normal runtime.
00:13 < me___|ugrad-lab> robpike: 8g doesn't have hjdicks.  is this a bug or
a feature?
00:13 < chrome> robpike: just do, vector.Do({stuff here}) ?
00:13 <+robpike> chrome: don't need to declare new_message and new client.
can just say case new_message := <-message_channel:
00:13 < mkanat> destreet: Unless they use the mysql client binary, which
would be too slow, I'd have to imagine, for serious production use.
00:13 < bobappleyard1> how would i get the equivalent of a C union?
00:13 -!- adheus [n=adheus@ns0.rix.com.br] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer)]
00:13 < nuggien> is http.ListenAndServe() meant for demonstrative purposes
00:13 <+robpike> vector.Do(func(client Client) { body....  })
00:14 < chrome> c programmer habits :)
00:14 < chrome> oh, thats novel.
00:14 -!- drusepth is now known as `
00:14 -!- ` is now known as drusepth
00:14 <@iant> bobappleyard1: we don't have unions in Go at this point
00:14 < kuroneko> iant: can it stay that way?  :)
00:14 <+robpike> chrome: however, i think you have the wrong type for the
func.  see the example in
00:15 < bobappleyard1> iant: i got that.  how would i get something similar
00:15 <+robpike> chrome: look at TestDo()
00:15 -!- jkimball4 [n=jkimball@pdpc/supporter/professional/jkimball4] has joined
00:15 < kuroneko> bobappleyard1: which "similar" properties are you after?
00:15 * mkanat actually once compiled a list of everything that a modern language
needs in order to succeed (what all the libraries it would need to have are).
Wonder if I should write one of them for Go.
00:16 < DrNach> robpike: What type of application do you think Go would be
best for, compared to other existing programming languages?
00:16 < jkimball4> mulander: still here, eh?
00:16 < TwhK> hey, when I try to compile it, I get the following error:
00:16 < mulander> jkimball4: just lurking around :)
00:16 -!- stefanc [n=stefanc@] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:16 < TwhK> Any help?
00:16 < bobappleyard1> kuroneko: being able to have an object that can take
on different shapes and sizes depending on which bits of it are accessed.
00:16 < chrome> Oh, Element is not "whatever you like", its a concrete type.
00:16 <@iant> TwhK: don't run the test as root
00:16 < chrome> oh, an interface.
00:16 < nuggien> i tried benchmarking a http.ListenAndServe() helloworld
against the facebook/friendfeed tornado server helloworld for fun, and go didn't
perform as well
00:16 < SRabbelier> where's the "panic" function Robert Griesemer refered to
00:17 < SRabbelier> gri: ^
00:17 <@iant> TwhK: at that point the compiler and libraries have been built
anyhow, so you can go ahead and use them
00:17 <+gri> panic() is a built-in
00:17 -!- mennis [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit
[Connection timed out]
00:17 <+gri> just say: panic("foo");
00:17 -!- yungyuc [n=yungyuc@unaffiliated/yungyuc] has joined #go-nuts
00:17 <+robpike> DrNach: i don't think we know yet :)
00:17 < TwhK> iant, alright, thanks
00:17 < kuroneko> bobappleyard1: flatten the members into a struct
00:18 -!- SiggyF [n=SiggyF@] has quit ["Leaving"]
00:18 < destreet> mkanat: someone should certainly do it.
00:18 < SRabbelier> gri: ah, where in the C files then?
00:18 -!- andrewh [n=andrewh@] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to
00:18 < DrNach> robpike: I find it quite interesting or strange (depending
how you look at it) that most of the libraries Go is bundled with seems to be for
working with Go itself, or various web standards
00:18 < chrome> ok looked at the docs for interfaces, looked at docs for
vector Elements ...  its not clear.  Bah, stupid brane.
00:18 -!- anfedorov [n=anfedoro@nmd.sbx07441.brookny.wayport.net] has quit []
00:18 <+robpike> TwhK: this might be fixed.  pull -u
00:18 < kuroneko> or use nested structs if you must keep it seperate.
Unless you're dealing with astronomical numbers of instances, and very large union
members, the benefits of union are usually outweighed by the pitfalls
00:18 < chrome> how do I make my Type conform to the Element interface so I
can store it in a Vector?
00:19 <+robpike> chrome: you don't have to do anthing!
00:19 < eharmon> should regex place the newline in my match when doing a
match strings on "<some stuff here>(.*)$"?/window 6
00:19 <+gri> SRabbelier: sorry, missing context.  Looked out of the window
for a sec...
00:19 < eharmon> oops
00:19 -!- andrewh_ [n=andrewh@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit
00:19 -!- tonfa [n=tonfa@wtf.punw.org] has joined #go-nuts
00:19 <+robpike> chrome: anything!  it does just by being there.  Element is
interface {} and any type satisfies that
00:19 <@iant> chrome: every type meets the Element interface, since the
interface is empty
00:19 < chrome> robpike: well, thats a little bit like magic, then.  So how
do I use it?
00:19 -!- andrewh_ [n=andrewh@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined
00:19 < leitz> robpike: this morning I was pondering taking some old Unix
application books and trying the tasks out in Go. I'm new to Go as well as not a
"real" programmer, so it'd be more fun than useful.  But the idea of doing system
stuff seems engging.
00:19 < tonfa> gug
00:19 < chrome> src/main.go:40: cannot use (node CLOSURE) (type func(client
Client)) as type func(elem vector.Element)
00:19 -!- andrewh_ [n=andrewh@94-194-56-42.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read
error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:19 <@iant> chrome: you use a type assertion to convert back to the real
00:20 < SRabbelier> gri: you said it's a builtin, so I'm wondering where in
the c files it's defined, am curious as to what it does
00:20 < SRabbelier> gri: (under the hood I mean)
00:20 <+robpike> chrome: yes, that's what i was saying.  Client satisfies
Element but func(Client) != func(Element)
00:20 -!- paddyez [n=paddy@wikipedia/paddyez] has joined #go-nuts
00:20 < SRabbelier> unrelated: how do I turn on debugging symbols?
00:20 <+robpike> the closure needs to have type func(Element).
00:21 < _ivo_> Hey, I'm really exited about this language.  Is google
planning to use go for any of its developer services, like appengine?
00:21 < kuroneko> bobappleyard1: sound reasonable?
00:21 <+gri> SRabbelier: got it.  somewhere in runtime I think - need to
00:21 < SRabbelier> gri: thank you!
00:21 <@iant> punya: I think you have found a bug in the compiler, would you
mind opening an issue for that?
00:21 < bobappleyard1> kuroneko: perhaps
00:21 -!- telemachus [n=telemach@user-0cev9bh.cable.mindspring.com] has joined
00:21 <@iant> punya: you've certainly found a bug somewhere, since 8g
rejects it but gccgo accepts it
00:21 * kuroneko restarts his gccgo build from scratch (after it produced
differing stage2+3]
00:22 < chrome> robpike: ok, understood ...  but I don't see then how I can
make http://pastie.org/694660 work
00:22 < chrome> I need to cast it?
00:22 < chrome> didnt think that was kosher in go :P
00:22 -!- nuggien [n=dnguyen@nat.electric-cloud.com] has left #go-nuts []
00:22 <+robpike> chrome: again, please look at Test.Do() in
http://golang.org/src/pkg/container/vector/vector_test.go see how it's func(e
Element) but then does i := e.(int)
00:23 < punya> iant: I'll do that in a moment, thanks for confirming.
00:23 < Rob_Russell> i don't see a line-at-a-time read method in the os
package, is there one or should i write my own?
00:23 <+robpike> robpike: you need to unbox.  apologies
00:23 < chrome> oh thats what you were talking about
00:23 <@iant> SRabbelier: panic is defined in pkg/runtime/runtime.c
00:23 < droid0011> kuroneko: I have exact the same problem
00:23 <+robpike> Rob_Russell: bufio has it
00:23 < chrome> robpike: thanks :)
00:23 < Rob_Russell> robpike: thx
00:23 < punya> iant: In general, is gccgo better maintained than 8g?
00:23 -!- bitform [n=bitform@pdpc/supporter/professional/bitform] has quit
00:23 < SRabbelier> gri: ^
00:23 < tonfa> how to do C-style (with goto's) error handling with Go? since
goto's are restricted (at least in spec, not in the actual implementation) it
isn't really possible, or is there a different way?
00:23 < punya> iant: Also, which behavior is correct in this instance?
00:23 -!- ctimmerm [n=ctimmerm@cs71226.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving..."]
00:23 <@iant> punya: they are both maintainer at about the same level
00:24 -!- ruinevil [n=ruinevil@cpe-74-68-126-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined
00:24 <@iant> punya: I think gccgo's behaviour is correct, myself
00:24 < blup> use if i assume?
00:24 < kuroneko> tonfa: gotos are Not The Only Way
00:24 <+gri> SRabellier: http://golang.org/src/pkg/runtime/runtime.c
00:24 -!- tasklist7 [n=tasklist@] has quit ["Colloquy for iPhone -
00:24 < punya> iant: Thanks, I'll create the issue and see if I can make my
program work with gccgo.
00:24 -!- gdk [i=gdoko@albalug/gdk] has joined #go-nuts
00:24 < paddyez> what I like is +Inf
00:25 < tonfa> kuroneko: but then I don't get why it would be useful to keep
gotos (especially with the powerful break-with-label)
00:25 < Hertta> gccgo, would be great to get it compiled but meh.  :)
00:25 < SRabbelier> gri: thanks, and it has what I'm looking for on line 40
so I can "yes it does, acshually" mr.  Corbit
00:25 <@iant> biab
00:25 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has left #go-nuts ["+++
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00:25 < paddyez> 172!  is actually +Inf
00:25 -!- iant [n=iant@nat/google/x-xfwgfgrvnokygtbn] has quit ["Leaving."]
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00:27 < ruinevil> hello
00:27 < _ivo_> Hey, I'm really exited about this language.  Does anyone know
if google planning to use GO for any of its developer services, like appengine?
00:27 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v danderson] by ChanServ
00:27 < ruinevil> is there anyway you can run compile the go compiler in
00:27 < SRabbelier> _ivo_: see the ml
00:27 -!- ank3but [n=hub@dslb-088-064-040-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined
00:27 < dho> ruinevil: no
00:28 -!- Eytre [n=afitz@adsl-190-192-124.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:28 < ank3but> I dont find the Source of the Compiler?!
00:28 < ruinevil> hi dho, how goes the freebsd dtrace project?
00:28 < ruinevil> hmmm
00:28 -!- IceRAM [n=mircea@] has quit []
00:28 < dho> ank3but: https://go.googlecode.com/hg/
00:28 -!- anothy_x [n=a@cpe-76-189-197-62.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error:
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00:29 < dho> ruinevil: i haven't dealt with that for a couple years
00:29 -!- KinOfCain [n=KinOfCai@rrcs-64-183-61-2.west.biz.rr.com] has joined
00:29 < dho> jb@ took it over (read: usurped)
00:29 -!- matt1982 [n=chatzill@94-171-145-192.cable.ubr19.brad.blueyonder.co.uk]
has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:29 < SRabbelier> ruinevil: there are some threads on the mailing list
about it, progress seems slow
00:29 -!- jcgregorio [n=chatzill@] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
00:29 -!- destreet [n=david@99-68-42-244.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has left
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00:30 < ank3but> dho: How can Download as an Archive?
00:30 -!- _ivo_ [i=5f5f993f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ymmreghktiwpbmyq] has quit
[Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
00:30 < raichoo> dtrace seems to be pretty hard to implement
00:30 < ruinevil> did you get a new cat?
00:30 < dho> ank3but: at this point, you don't.
00:30 -!- rbohn [n=rbohn@] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox
00:31 < dho> raichoo: it's not so bad.
00:31 < dho> ruinevil: i have 2 now
00:31 < fgb> ruinevil, no, but I'm having some burgers
00:31 < dho> hey federico
00:31 < raichoo> dho: It isn't.  Well, that surprises me.  But good to hear
00:31 -!- panaggio [n=panaggio@200-158-190-234.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote
closed the connection]
00:31 < dho> raichoo: it's relative :)
00:31 < fgb> hola
00:32 < raichoo> Is there any progress with userspace tracing?
00:32 -!- ank3but [n=hub@dslb-088-064-040-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client
00:32 < KirkMcDonald> So here's a Makefile question.
00:32 -!- ConSi [i=consi@sh.8px.pl] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
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00:33 < ruinevil> does the gocompiler compile on freebsd?
00:33 < KirkMcDonald> The rule for the binary should depend on the .6 file
for the main package.  And the .6 for the main package should depend on the .go
files for that package, and the .6 files for the packages it depends on.
00:33 < dho> ruinevil: no
00:33 < KirkMcDonald> Does this sound right?
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00:33 -!- inra [n=kite@adsl-99-135-72-13.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit []
00:33 < Arek_> does the http package web server automatically select which
multiplex mechanism to use depending on OS . Ie: Kqueue on Darwin and Epoll on
Linux ?
00:33 < dho> KirkMcDonald: yes
00:33 < Rob_Russell> KirkMcDonald: yeah
00:34 < KirkMcDonald> As opposed to the binary depending on all of the .6
files together, as you'd do in C.
00:34 -!- Cyric [n=g0d@rrcs-70-62-118-186.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit ["ircN
8.00 for mIRC (20080809) - www.ircN.org"]
00:34 < Rob_Russell> KirkMcDonald: that depends on the project specifics i
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00:35 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: yes.  plus .6 files contain link-time
dependency info so you don't have to list all the dependencies; they're compiled
00:35 < KirkMcDonald> The .6 file has the curious dual-role of object file
and header file.
00:35 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: right
00:36 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: this is also why you need to compile a
package before you can compile another one that imports it.
00:36 -!- iant [n=iant@] has joined #go-nuts
00:36 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ
00:36 < KirkMcDonald> Yeah.
00:36 < mrd`> Anyone else using go-mode?
00:37 < npe> robpike: do you guys do most of your development in p9p acme?
00:37 -!- ajbentley [n=bentley@71-38-215-103.albq.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:37 -!- rewired [n=t@100-20.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #go-nuts
00:37 < me___|ugrad-lab> npe: :)
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00:38 < bobappleyard1> ok, how do i do reflection then
00:39 <+iant> bobappleyard1: golang.org/pkg/reflect
00:39 <+robpike> npe: rsc and i do; some use other things.
00:39 < bobappleyard1> iant: i'm looking at that, it's confusing me
00:39 < dho> step 1: read
00:39 < dho> step 2: repeat
00:40 <+iant> bobappleyard1: I may have missed something, but you may need
to ask a more specific question
00:40 <+robpike> bobappleyard1: if you have suggestions how to make the doc
comment clearer, please tell me.  i tweaked them just a few days ago
00:40 < npe> robpike: so when you're debugging you just use the stacktrace
from panic?  does it work with p9p's acid as well?
00:40 < bobappleyard1> iant: i'll try and work out what i want to ask
robpike: i'll get back to you
00:40 <+robpike> npe: yes, just use panic traces for the most part.  we have
a hacked-up acid but want to do much better.  watch this space.
00:41 < bobappleyard1> " A type switch or type assertion can reveal which.
" <-- what's this when it's at home?
00:41 < npe> robpike: cool thanks.
00:41 < carllerche> Is it possible to add functions on int?  so that I can
do 1.myFunc() ?
00:41 -!- Federalu [n=DeathRow@host218-90-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it]
has joined #go-nuts
00:41 < JBeshir> Does TCPConn.Read() null-terminate its reads, and should
string() be understanding that?
00:41 -!- leitz [n=leam@] has left #go-nuts []
00:42 -!- radix [n=r@wordeology.com] has joined #go-nuts
00:42 <+iant> bobappleyard1: they are in the language spec
00:42 <+iant> bobappleyard1: a type assertion looks like v.(type)
00:42 <+iant> bobappleyard1: a type switch is switch v.(type) { case int: }
00:42 -!- Federalu [n=DeathRow@host218-90-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it]
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00:43 < radix> are go arguments passed by value (i.e.  are they copied) or
by reference?
00:43 -!- Federalu [n=DeathRow@host218-90-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it]
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00:43 < bobappleyard1> iant: thanks, i went through that section and somehow
breezed straight throug that
00:43 -!- dpb9cpu [n=dpb@ip65-46-56-98.z56-46-65.customer.algx.net] has quit
00:43 <+iant> carllerche: you can add functions on an integer type you name
yourself, and do Myint(1).MyFunc()
00:43 <+iant> JBeshir: I don't think it nul terminates, it returns the
length that it reads
00:43 -!- Federalu [n=DeathRow@host218-90-dynamic.13-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it]
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00:44 < JBeshir> Ah, so I have to use that.
00:44 < carllerche> is it because int is special, or can I not add functions
to any types outside of the package I am in?
00:44 <+iant> radix: both; most types are by value; slices, maps and
channels are by reference
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00:44 <+iant> carllerche: the latter--you can only add methods to your own
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00:44 < radix> iant: the types that are by value: are they only the
immutable ones, or some mutable ones as well?
00:44 -!- mode/#go-nuts [-o danderson] by danderson
00:44 < radix> iant: basically, I'm trying to figure out the rationale for
the existence of pointers in go
00:44 -!- shardz [n=samuel@c-75-67-166-65.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:44 < camfex> why does Sleep(ns) calls syscall.Sleep(ns) ? isn't it
supposed to pause only the current goroutine ?
00:44 <+iant> types like int, float, and also arrays are passed by value
00:45 <+iant> radix: so, not only immutable ones
00:45 <+danderson> (shotgun spammer, if anyone was wondering, spammed #emacs
a few seconds ago)
00:45 < kuroneko> [ah, right]
00:45 -!- anfedorov [n=anfedoro@cpe-24-90-197-242.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit []
00:45 <+iant> camfex: that should pause only the current goroutine, I hope
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00:46 < ank3but> dho: Grr show me that.
00:46 < ank3but> :/
00:46 < ank3but> Jet -> :)
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00:46 < kuroneko> droid0011: what were you trying to build gccgo on?  amd64?
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00:47 < droid0011> kuroneko: amd64 ubuntu
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00:47 < kuroneko> droid0011: karmic?
00:47 < droid0011> jaunty
00:47 < kuroneko> ok - that's some relief then :)
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00:48 < kuroneko> I was using karmic when I got the build differences
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00:49 < droid0011> gcc version 4.3.3 (Ubuntu 4.3.3-5ubuntu4)
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00:50 < kuroneko> gcc version 4.4.1 (Ubuntu 4.4.1-4ubuntu8)
00:50 -!- jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #go-nuts
00:50 < kuroneko> that at least rules out it being a problem with the
specific version of gcc, unless they're both broken
00:51 <+iant> it is working except for the bootstrap comparison?  Which
files are miscomparing?
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00:53 < kuroneko> iant: I've restarted with multilib disabled
00:53 < kuroneko> so it'll be a while before I have a new result
00:53 < jlouis> If I do the unmentionable, and share a reference type (e.g.
a map) between several goroutines, do I need to run my own sync primitive?  Or is
the idiom to let one goroutine be owner of the map and then take requests on it
through channels?
00:53 <+iant> jlouis: the latter
00:54 < jlouis> The latter is very Erlang-like I might add :)
00:55 -!- loureiro [n=loureiro@201008197252.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined
00:55 < jlouis> what about the former, is the map protected from multiple
updates and other nastiness?
00:55 < dj_ryan> what are the limits of the latter approach?
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00:55 <+iant> jlouis: no, it's not; you would need to use your own
sync.Mutex or similar construct
00:56 < jlouis> ah, you punted on that one.  No worries though.  It is
mostly a non-issue with the latter approach
00:56 -!- jh99 [n=jh99@g225035037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #go-nuts []
00:56 <+iant> jlouis: yes, we intentionally punted on it
00:56 -!- peloverde [n=alex@cpe-173-88-148-20.neo.res.rr.com] has left #go-nuts
00:57 <+iant> dj_ryan: I don't think there are any real limitations to the
single goroutine approach
00:57 <+iant> you have to have a channel variable around, I suppose
00:57 < jlouis> dj_ryan: the only limitation is how fast you can send
channel messages to it, but that is definitely not going to be a limiting factor
in most workloads
00:57 < ank3but> can be set env.  in go has this 'os' ?
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00:58 < dj_ryan> yeah
00:58 < dj_ryan> im thinking of workloads where it is a problem
00:58 < dj_ryan> just wondering if go is going to become 'erlang but not
erlang' or more flexible
00:58 <+iant> but on the other hand you don't need to use a mutex when
accessing the map
00:58 < jlouis> dj_ryan: note that you can still build scalable maps by
having one goroutine load-balance the request to several to achieve more speed
00:58 <+iant> accessing a single mutex from several different threads can
get expensive too
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00:59 < jlouis> to several goroutines
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00:59 < dj_ryan> there are non-locking objects and fine-grained locking and
CAS approaches
00:59 < KirkMcDonald> I remain somewhat baffled as to how variadic functions
00:59 < jlouis> iant: escape analysis can eliminate that mutex
00:59 <+iant> well, perhaps
00:59 < dj_ryan> i think for most uses, the goroutine control method is
probably the best
00:59 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: ask me specific questions about variadic
00:59 <+iant> channels aren't that expensive either
00:59 < SRabbelier> can I have flag parse a required argument that's not
prefixed?  that is ./go 4 I want it to parse the 4 as an int?
00:59 < jlouis> iant: right.  My Erlang experience is that communication is
mostly a non-issue
01:00 <+iant> SRabbelier: I don't think so, I think you have to pick that up
yourself and use the strconv functions
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01:00 < dj_ryan> no channels arent expensive
01:00 < jlouis> but en Erlang, everything has value-type semantics, so if
you message an 8mb big binary tree you copy it.
01:00 < dj_ryan> but serializing all accesses to a data structure is
01:00 < SRabbelier> iant: bummer, thanks
01:00 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Take a function: func f(a...);
01:00 < jlouis> at least with the default memory model
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01:00 < mrd`> jlouis: Large binaries in Erlang are stored in a shared heap
within a single OS process.
01:00 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: The static type of 'a' is interface{}, as I
understand it.
01:00 <+robpike> SRabbelier: after you call flag.Parse (if you do), then
flag.Arg will be the remaining arguments
01:00 -!- telemachus [n=telemach@user-0cev9bh.cable.mindspring.com] has joined
01:01 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: yes
01:01 < jlouis> dj_ryan: you do not have to serialize it like that if you
build your data structure around a set of processes
01:01 < jlouis> dj_ryan: I've been there with Erlang before
01:01 < dj_ryan> so use 2 trees instead of one?
01:01 < SRabbelier> robpike: but they will be strings, I want an int :)
01:01 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: How would I extract the first argument from
this?  Let us say, for simplicity's sake, that we already know it is of a struct
type S.
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01:02 < jaddison> It's probably been asked a billion times...  but has
anyone got any performance metrics between python and go and say...  c/c++?  I
wouldn't mind seeing a nice blog article somewhere.
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01:02 < jlouis> mrd`: right.  For their binary() type they use ref-counting.
This works because those data are immutable
01:02 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: you need to unpack it.  to do that, use sv :=
01:02 <+iant> jaddison: see test/bench/timing.log
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01:02 < jaddison> iant, thanks.
01:02 <+robpike> then you can iterate on sv.Field(i)
01:03 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: i'm typing this from memory so apologies for
any typos
01:03 < scandal> fyi, i hacked together a script to generate a tags file for
go code.  seems to work ok in vim http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~me/gotags
01:03 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Alright.
01:03 < jlouis> dj_ryan: yes, or start by hashing the key, and then find the
channel in the set responsible for that bucket
01:03 < dj_ryan> jlouis: could you expand a bit?  I'm thinking of high
performance shared data structures shared among dozens of active threads.  ordered
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01:03 < dj_ryan> jlouis: oh so just hash tables then?  ah easy then.  too
easy really
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01:04 < jlouis> dj_ryan: for the first level, then it is up to the goroutine
in the other end of the channel
01:04 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: http://golang.org/src/pkg/fmt/print.go look
at the implementation of Fprintf and/or doprintf
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01:04 < dj_ryan> jlouis: that is not appropriate for the use im thinking of.
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01:04 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: Fprintf is very short,
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01:05 < jlouis> dj_ryan: it is worth thinking about how you can split your
data structure over multiple goroutines I think -- if performance of that
structure ends up being the bottleneck
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01:05 < Carlus> hi
01:05 < droid0011> iant: weird, now I get: sysinfo.c:18:24: fatal error:
linux/user.h: No such file or directory
01:05 < droid0011> compilation terminated.  make[3]: *** [sysinfo.go]
01:06 < dj_ryan> jlouis: the use im thinking of is in-memory databases.
Where having a coherent global view is paramount.
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01:06 <+iant> droid0011: do you have the linux-libc-devel package installed?
01:06 <+iant> droid0011: I mean, linux-libc-dev
01:06 < Carlus> The Go Lang is only used for websites creation?
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01:06 < jlouis> dj_ryan: could an MVCC approach solve the global coherency?
01:06 <+iant> Carlus: we think it can be used for a range of things
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01:07 < dj_ryan> jlouis: right now we are using the concurrent skip list in
java and it works well.  highly performant and no locks
01:07 < dj_ryan> i essentially need more of that
01:07 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@i577BA04E.versanet.de] has quit
01:07 < bobappleyard1> Carlus:
http://grammerjack.blogspot.com/2009/11/multi-threaded-go-raytracer.html this is
what someone has done with it
01:07 < kuroneko> oh, Issue 24: somebody is using the wrong GOARCH for test
to work.
01:07 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: The * in there was non-obvious.
01:07 < kuroneko> should be rejected.
01:07 -!- jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has quit ["Ciao"]
01:08 < kuroneko> well, GOOS and GOARCH actually
01:08 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: I am still getting a handle on when pointers
are typically used and when they are not.
01:08 < Carlus> iant, can you give me others examples, besides sites?
01:08 < jlouis> dj_ryan: oh.
01:08 -!- kakazza [n=kakafn@unaffiliated/kakazza] has joined #go-nuts
01:08 < dj_ryan> i basically have a bigtable clone
01:08 -!- cfq [n=cfq@94-194-98-91.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts
01:08 < bobappleyard1> Carlus: check the link i just gave you
01:08 < Carlus> bobappleyard1 tks
01:08 < Carlus> sorry, tks
01:08 < bobappleyard1> :)
01:08 < SRabbelier> ...  passing a string to a function that expects an int
assign '0' to the int?
01:08 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: a tip when doing this sort of thing.
Printf("%T", something) will print out a go representation of something's type.
helps you find * and so on
01:09 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: structs are usually passed as pointers
01:09 < droid0011> iant: yes the linux-libc-dev is instaled
01:09 <+iant> Carlus: compilers, database, etc., many possibilities
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01:09 <+iant> SRabbelier: you shouldn't be able to pass a string to a
function that expects an int
01:09 -!- lambo4jos [n=chatzill@c-76-126-250-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined
01:10 <+iant> droid0011: but no <linux/user.h>?  Hmmm.  You may need
to edit libgo/mksysinfo.sh
01:10 < SRabbelier> iant: func fib(n int) int
01:10 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Makes sense.
01:10 <+iant> droid0011: clearly this needs more portability work
01:10 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: These getBool, getInt, etc, functions inside
of print.go seem quite useful.
01:10 -!- Aria [n=aredride@eridani.theinternetco.net] has quit ["Ta!"]
01:11 < SRabbelier> iant: and then I'm passing it i from "for i := range
flag.Args() {"
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01:11 < jlouis> dj_ryan: I wouldn't rule out an approach where multiple
goroutines maintained the map, but it definitely takes some thinking getting right
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01:11 <+iant> SRabbelier: flag.Args() returns a slice, so i is an int
01:11 < SRabbelier> (hadn't checked out the strconv yet, incremental coding
and whatnot)
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01:11 <+iant> SRabbelier: you want for _, v := flag.Args(), I think
01:11 < Carlus> iant, good, tks :)
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01:11 < dj_ryan> jlouis: you'd have to split up the ordered data structure
and assign 'shards' to in-memory goroutines
01:11 < donpdonp> just got hello world to compile and run.  wooo!
01:11 < dj_ryan> seems...  scary
01:12 < SRabbelier> iant: ah, i is the index?
01:12 < ank3but> donpdonp: Gratulation..  ^^
01:12 < jlouis> dj_ryan: the usual Erlang approach is to version stuff so
you know which version to take to give a coherent view of the data
01:12 <+iant> SRabbelier: yes
01:12 < jlouis> ie, MVCC
01:12 -!- ajray [n=alex@wvc32563rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
01:12 * SRabbelier nods
01:12 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: yeah but they're not public.  not sure they
should be in that form.  but you have the source....
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01:12 < ajray> can we submit code for review w/o reviewers, or does it have
to have reviewers and/or CC's?
01:12 < jlouis> dj_ryan: I know too little about concurrent skip lists to be
of any help.  I only know of Pughs original skip-lists.
01:12 < dj_ryan> jlouis: the problem is funnling all access in a serialized
form into 1 goroutine or process
01:12 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: True.
01:12 < TwhK> The default libraries should have been downloaded along w/ the
compiler, right?
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01:12 <+iant> ajray: you do need to let somebody know about it, I suppose
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01:13 < jlouis> dj_ryan: if he only has to mux/demux I think he can take an
immense pounding
01:13 < dj_ryan> the concurrent skip list uses a combo of fine grained locks
and CAS methods ot avoid needing locks on the data structure allowing multiple
processes to acces it w/o serializing access
01:13 <+iant> ajray: if you want to make me the reviewer I'll kick it off to
somebody else
01:13 < jlouis> dj_ryan: Doug Leas Java implementations?
01:13 <+robpike> ajray: or you can just say golang-dev@googlegroups.com as
the reviewer
01:13 <+iant> or just review it if it's in my bailiwick
01:13 < dj_ryan> jlouis: yeah i believe so
01:13 <+iant> ah, golang-dev, better idea
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01:14 < Carlus> bobappleyard1 very good, bob.  is there already a site using
go lang?
01:14 < ank3but_> A gccgo/gcc/ada/s-osinte-solaris-posix.ads
01:14 -!- zipito_ [n=zipito@85-10-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
01:14 < ank3but_> My connection stops...
01:14 < bobappleyard1> Carlus: golang.org
01:14 < dwery> can I do something like arrayA[0:2] = arrayB[1:3] ?
01:14 <+iant> Carlus: http://golang.org is written in Go
01:14 -!- bill_h
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01:14 <+iant> dwery: no, sorry
01:14 < dj_ryan> jlouis: we are talking upwards of 500k ops/sec on data
structure.  no joke here.
01:15 < dwery> iant: best way to obtain the same effect?
01:15 < jlouis> dj_ryan: ouch :)
01:15 <+iant> dwery: you have to write a loop
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01:15 < dj_ryan> jlouis: i said, bigtable clone.  high volume, low latency
data storage
01:15 < dwery> ouch :(
01:15 <+robpike> dwery: simple cases of that assignment look reasonable but
it can be very expensive in general.  we don't want to make expensive things look
01:15 < bill_h> Hey, this might sound like a stupid problem, but after I've
downloaded the compiler I don't seem to have the default libraries
01:15 < Carlus> iant, bobappleyard1 Thank you very much :)
01:15 < dj_ryan> jlouis: we get this in java right now on 8 core systems
with HTT
01:15 < dwery> robpike: ok
01:15 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit []
01:15 < bill_h> when I try to compile the 'hello world' program, I get a
fatal error
01:15 < bill_h> when trying to import fmt
01:15 < dwery> thanks for the work you are doing here guys
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01:15 <+iant> bill_h: do you have GOROOT set correctly?
01:15 <+robpike> bill_h: seen common problems link above
01:15 <+iant> and exported?
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01:16 < bill_h> Ah, that's probably it
01:16 < jlouis> dj_ryan: coherency, especially in caches, is going to die
also I think
01:16 < kuroneko> Can somebody look at Issue #53 and review my patch to fix
01:17 < dj_ryan> we add a few layers above it to achieve per-row coherency.
i dont think its perfect
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01:17 < ank3but_> When i compile a go programm can i send to my friend
without have gccgo or libs?
01:17 < dj_ryan> but the idea of serializing all accesses to a datastructure
via 1 goroutine is the functionally same thing as slapping 'synchronized' on every
method in Java and calling the problem solved
01:17 < bill_h> where should GOROOT be pointing to in ~/go ?
01:18 < dj_ryan> or at least performance equavlent
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01:18 < kuroneko> bill_h: it should be pointing at ~/go assuming ~/go is
your checkout
01:18 < kuroneko> and it should be exported
01:18 < yootis> The golang.org page had some longer seminars (video I think)
on there, but I can't find them anymore.  Are they available?
01:18 < Eridius> woohoo!  The language design FAQ uses the term "ironic"
01:18 -!- benjack [n=Ben@cm101.gamma247.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts
01:18 <+robpike> Eridius: :)
01:18 < Eridius> yootis: there's the "Tech talk (1 hour)" linked on the left
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01:19 <+agl> bill_h: GOROOT should be the go directory itself
01:19 <+iant> ank3but_: yes, 8g/6g always statically link, so you can send
programs around without any other libraries
01:19 < yootis> But weren't there 3 half-day sessions as well at one point
01:19 -!- werdan7 [n=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts
01:19 <+agl> bill_h: (i.e.  $GOROOT/src/make.bash should exist)
01:19 < ank3but_> iant: good.
01:19 < bill_h> ah, I don't have that =\
01:19 < Eridius> yootis: those are linked from the tutorial page
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01:20 <+robpike> yootis: http://golang.org has both on the landing page
01:20 < ank3but_> How much time is spend in this Project?
01:20 < yootis> Thanks!
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01:20 < msw> ugh
01:20 < msw> wrong window
01:21 <+iant> ank3but_: see the FAQs
01:21 < bill_h> agl, I was wrong I do have it, but when I run it it says:
'line 41: quietgcc.bash: No such file or directory'
01:21 < bobappleyard1> no need to break on switch clauses, i take it?
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01:21 <+iant> bill_h: still a common problem, I think: must put $GOBIN in
01:21 <+iant> bobappleyard1: right
01:21 < bobappleyard1> iant: souper
01:22 < danopia`> <Eridius> woohoo!  The language design FAQ uses the
term "ironic" correctly!
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01:22 < danopia`> context please :P
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01:22 < ajray> if i want to submit a couple different changes to code
review, do i have to have different branches, or just remove the files from the
submission text file
01:23 < ank3but_> Maybe make an Webblog in go :D
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01:23 <+agl> kuroneko: you should send that to rsc for review
01:23 < Eridius> ooh http://github.com/rsms/Go.tmbundle
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01:23 <+agl> bill_h: you should be running all.bash rather than make.bash
01:24 <+iant> ajray: if the changes are to different files, you can have
multiple changes in one tree
01:24 <+iant> ajray: otherwise, yes, different checkouts or different
branches or whatever seems best
01:24 < ajray> is that how i keep the different files separate then (remove
lines from submission file)?
01:24 < bill_h> Okay, hold on...
01:24 <+iant> ajray: yes
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01:25 <+iant> ajray: and then "hg pending" will show you your different
01:25 < ajray> thanks
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01:25 < drhodes> what ctypes has done for python, could be done for go with
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01:27 <+iant> drhodes: there is some FFI support already, see misc/cgo
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01:28 < ajbouh> is it possible to trap errors like divide by zero?
01:29 <+iant> ajbouh: not currently, sorry
01:29 < ank3but_> compiling gccgo, in how much time?
01:30 < ank3but_> ca~
01:30 < ajbouh> iant: any suggestions about how to build support for that?
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01:30 <+iant> ank3but_: building gccgo takes 30 to 45 minutes on my desktop
01:30 < ank3but_> ok cool
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01:31 <+agl> ajbouh: it would take a lot of hacking in the runtime.
Currently we don't even support signals.
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01:31 <+iant> ajbouh: it's a complex question because it leads directly into
how to handle exceptional cases
01:31 < mesenga> hi..  where i will go host websites that use go?
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01:31 < Eridius> hey, is anybody here on a 32-bit intel Mac?
01:31 < bill_h> thanks for your help agl, iant
01:31 < bill_h> working
01:31 < bill_h> :)
01:31 <+iant> mesenga: not sure I understand that question
01:32 < droid0011> iant: libc-dev doesn't include user.h It's in
linux-headers-2.6.* Here it is located at
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01:32 < mesenga> iant, where can i host go applications (sites)?
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01:33 <+agl> mesenga: currently you have to host them yourself.
01:33 <+iant> mesenga: whereever you like, I suppose; we don't have a place
for them
01:33 < ajbouh> i have some simple ideas, half-baked ideas on the subject -
is this the right forum for that?
01:33 < ajray> is there any code-diving tools for go?  (like go-scope
instead of cscope?)
01:33 <+iant> droid0011: right, it's not in libc-dev, it's in linux-libc-dev
01:33 <+agl> droid0011: I don't believe that files in /usr/src are in the
search path for includes.
01:33 <+iant> which is a different package
01:33 <+iant> agl: droid0011 is trying to build gccgo
01:33 <+agl> iant: ok, I'll let you handle it then :)
01:34 <+iant> ajbouh: the mailing list may be more useful, unless they are
really half-backed, in which case go ahead
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01:34 < mesenga> agl, iant: tks
01:34 -!- nutate [n=rseymour@cacsag4.usc.edu] has joined #go-nuts
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01:34 <+agl> ajray: it would be easy to write them in go.  There are already
packages for parsing source files.
01:34 < ajray> yup.  playing with those now :-)
01:35 < ajray> i <3 cscope for c, i'd <3 goscope as well
01:35 < droid0011> iant: apt-file list linux-libc-dev | grep user.h gives
here nothing
01:35 <+iant> droid0011: OK, some system difference, then
01:35 <+iant> I'm running Hardy
01:36 < ank3but_> Only devs from google code golanng?
01:36 <+iant> mksysinfo.sh needs to be more portable
01:36 < ank3but_> -n
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01:36 <+iant> ank3but_: at the moment, I think so, but as other people learn
the system and show good work we plan to add them
01:36 < ajbouh> iant: any reason you guys haven't gone with something like
"go func () { ..  }, chan os.Error"
01:36 <+iant> like other open source projects
01:37 < ank3but_> iant: Okay...
01:37 <+iant> ajbouh: we've considered that and it may happen at some point,
but no promises
01:37 < ank3but_> go is interesting.
01:37 < ajbouh> iant: and you're suggesting that building something like
that would involve a lot of runtime hacking?
01:38 < ank3but_> i search for a while an other language but C was the best
for me.
01:38 < ank3but_> go looks cool
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01:38 <+iant> ajbouh: I don't think it would take that much hacking, it's
more a question of whether we think it is a good fit for the language
01:38 <+iant> we're trying to be very careful not to add unnecessary
01:38 <+robpike> ajbouh: the idea of getting a channel from a go f()
invocation makes sense.  i've thought about it a lot, though, and worry that it
may be more complicated to do than it's worth.  but we are still talking about it
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01:40 < rando> iant: but won't folks then write a bunch of libraries for the
things 'they' think are missing and we end up with all the layers back again?
01:40 < droid0011> iant: checked jaunty and karmic, there is no user.h in
01:40 -!- benjack [n=Ben@cm101.gamma247.maxonline.com.sg] has quit []
01:41 <+iant> rando: libraries are one thing, the language proper is another
01:41 < nutate> I would just like to congratulate the team on making
something so easy to install (at least on OS X 10.5 intel)
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01:41 <+iant> droid0011: what can I say, I see it here
01:41 < Eridius> nutate: the only thing that would make it easier is to stop
using Mercurial ;)
01:41 -!- devinus [n=devin@cpe-66-25-177-158.austin.res.rr.com] has quit []
01:41 <+iant> droid0011: I certainly believe you
01:41 <+iant> droid0011: I'm just not running those systems
01:41 < ajbouh> robpike: i've built a language+runtime that uses channels
for error handling - it turned out much simpler + robust than we expected
01:42 < nutate> Eridius: I just want to see if I can make sense of this from
the multicore standpoint...  I know enough to be dangerous with pthreads, openmp,
cuda, etc...
01:42 -!- giovannucci [n=bobg@c-24-60-168-59.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit
01:42 <+robpike> nutate: thanks!
01:42 <+robpike> ajbouh: is it written up?
01:42 < engla> since it would be hard to implement map(func, array)
correctly in the type system, what about list comprehensions ala Python; can
syntax support solve this;perhaps: a := [f(x) for _, x := range otherarray]
01:43 < kfx> droid0011: check libc6-dev
01:43 <+iant> engla: we do have range
01:43 < ajbouh> robpike: not formally
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01:43 < SRabbelier> how would I do something like..  "res, err = foo() +
01:43 < SRabbelier> is it possible in one line?
01:43 < kfx> droid0011: or linux-headers-<kernelversion>
01:43 <+robpike> SRabbelier: sorry, no
01:43 < engla> iant: the point is adding syntax for map as list
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01:43 < rando> iant: ah, OK. that makes sense.  I do like the direction of
this language.  I think rob hit it on the head, programming became 'not fun'
unless you used a dynamically typed language.  I'll be watching.  As soon as I
think it's solid enough I'll try to use it in my production environment.
01:44 < SRabbelier> robpike: what's the goey way to do it?
01:44 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: So the elements of this dynamic struct have a
static type of reflect.Value.  If I wanted to pull a static S out, I would say:
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01:44 < Eridius> rando: you want fun?  Go learn Haskell ;)
01:44 <+iant> engla: fair enough
01:44 <+iant> SRabbelier: I'm not sure just what you are trying to do,
01:44 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: (After confirming that the type is, indeed,
01:44 <+robpike> SRabbelier: does foo() return a pair?
01:44 < rando> Eridius: I looked at it....  my head hurt.
01:44 < SRabbelier> robpike: yes, the usual 'value, err' pair
01:44 < Eridius> rando: hehehe
01:44 < SRabbelier> I'm implementing fibonaci to practice
01:45 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Since unsafe.StructValue doesn't have a Get
01:45 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: you do not need package unsafe.  you should
almost never need it.
01:45 < danopia`> rando, lisp is fun
01:45 < SRabbelier> and I see no elegant way to do the fib(n-2) + fib(n-1)
01:45 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Er. reflect.StructValue, I mean.
01:45 < SRabbelier> (with fib returning value,err)
01:45 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: reflect.StructValue has a Field(int) method
and NumField()
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01:46 < ajray> rando: learn you a haskell for great good is the best haskell
primer i've ever seen
01:46 -!- devinus [n=devin@cpe-66-25-177-158.austin.res.rr.com] has joined
01:46 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Which serves right up until I want a variable
of type S.
01:46 < danopia`> learn you a haskell!
01:46 -!- devinus [n=devin@cpe-66-25-177-158.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote
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01:46 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: (Or *S, as the case may be.)
01:46 < ajray> danopia`: for great good!
01:46 <+robpike> SRabbelier: if fib returned just one value, you can do v1,
v2 := (v1+v2), v1 or something like that
01:46 <+robpike> not sure that helps you
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01:47 < ajbouh> robpike: happy to explain outline our approach further, if
it'd be helpful
01:47 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Which actually serves for quite a long
01:47 < rando> Ya, folks, this announcement has been good, I was going to
start learning java (even though I didn't want to, a person needs to stay
employeed).  Now I'll just learn go.
01:47 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: is S the type of the structure or of a field
01:47 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has joined #go-nuts
01:47 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: It is the type of the structure which I
passed to the variadic function.
01:47 < danopia`> rando, i don't think there are many commercial go venders
01:47 < bill_h> seeing as how gedit doesn't support syntax highlighting for
go, yet
01:47 < danopia`> unfortunately
01:47 -!- brrant [n=John@65-102-225-252.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:47 < bill_h> what other languages have similar syntax?
01:47 < SRabbelier> robpike: hum, but I had it return an error in the case
of n < 0, any advice?
01:47 < danopia`> although you won't have the "code's compiling!" excuse
when you are caught fooling around
01:48 < droid0011> kfx: yes sure, it is in
linux-headers-<kernelversion> but that IMO means userspace prgs should not
use it
01:48 < RockOn> I'm pretty excited about Go
01:48 < danopia`> you can't do much in 3 seconds
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01:48 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: if you *know* you have an S, that thing is
still inside the value.  off the top of my head, it's value.Interface.(*S)
01:48 <+robpike> sorry value.Interface().(*S)
01:48 < rando> danopia`: doesn't matter, I work on open source!  :-)
01:48 < ajbouh> iant: how far along is the nacl port?
01:48 < SRabbelier> robpike: I mean, is "you passed -4 to fib" not something
you'd return an os.Error for?
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01:49 <+robpike> SRabbelier: it makes sense to do that but the code won't be
as pretty.  you'd need to use an if statement
01:49 < gointrigue> I have a nooby question.  Since I can't use go on
winblows, I got a VM of ubuntu going.  However, I am a dunce when it comes to some
linux crud.  (hence ubuntu :P) How do I edit the bashrc for the installation of
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01:49 < danopia`> ubuntu/
01:49 < danopia`> try running:
01:49 < danopia`> gedeit ~/.bashrc
01:49 < SRabbelier> robpike: yeah, and I end up having to use a bunch of
accelorary (is that a word?) variables to store the intermediate result
01:49 < danopia`> err
01:49 -!- rogue [n=quassel@75-145-199-97-Richmond.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has
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01:49 < danopia`> gedit ~/.bashrc
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01:49 < danopia`> does Go run in cygwin?
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01:50 <+agl> danopia`: no
01:50 < mjard> shouldn't that really be in ~/.bash_profile
01:50 < gointrigue> Here is what I have
01:50 < gointrigue> $GOROOT=$HOME/go; $GOOS=linux; $GOARCH=386; (Don't
01:50 < rogue> any help -> installed quietgcc as /home/dingo/bin/quietgcc
but 'which quietgcc' fails
01:50 < danopia`> what am i not laughing at
01:50 < danopia`> that's mine exactly, minus me quoting values
01:50 < saati> rogue: /home/dingo/bin/ is not in the $PATH
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01:51 < mjard> gointrigue: now you just need to export those
01:51 < gointrigue> Hrm, I should probably do that then?  lol
01:51 < danopia`> oh yea
01:51 < danopia`> export them too
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01:51 < kfx> '$GOROOT=$HOME/go' isn't going to work
01:51 < danopia`> also, check `echo $PATH`
01:51 < mjard> also drop the $ from everything except $HOME
01:51 -!- jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #go-nuts
01:51 < danopia`> my xubuntu have $HOME/.bin but not $HOME/bin
01:52 < danopia`> so i used $HOME/.bin for the GOBIN
01:52 < danopia`> GOBIN reminds me of goblins
01:52 -!- tjake [n=jake@75-44-151-7.lightspeed.smfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined
01:52 <+iant> droid0011: the userspace program doesn't use it, but I needed
it to extra some data structure for some reason
01:52 < rogue> saati: thanks fat fingered that path :)
01:52 <+iant> droid0011: I actually don't remember, you could try just
removing it from mksysinfo.sh to see what happens
01:52 < gointrigue> I am doing something horribly wrong :(
01:53 < RockOn> I'm on Ubuntu and I've found it easier to build gccgo
01:53 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Ah. Of course.
01:53 < gointrigue> No command '=linux' found, did you mean:
01:53 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: I am beginning to get the hang of this.
01:53 < danopia`> i'm on xbuntu 8.04 and got go fired up with no issues
01:53 <+iant> ajbouh: I think the NaCl port works except for closures, which
require some support from the NaCl folks
01:53 < gointrigue> No command '=386' found, did you mean:
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01:53 < danopia`> gointrigue, try using "quotes"
01:53 < danopia`> ="linux"
01:53 < gointrigue> I did :(
01:53 < gointrigue> $GOROOT="$HOME/go"; $GOOS="linux"; $GOARCH="386";
01:53 < SRabbelier> is it possible to combine assignment and declaration?
01:53 < danopia`> you need it to be like
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01:54 < ajbouh> iant: are there bugs filed?
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01:54 < danopia`> export GOROOT="$HOME/go"
01:54 < danopia`> here's what i have:
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01:54 < danopia`> export GOROOT="$HOME/go"; export GOOS='linux'; export
GOARCH='386'; export GOBIN="$HOME/.bin"
01:54 < SRabbelier> I have a v variable already, but not yet an err in "if
v, err = strconv.Atoi(s); err != nil {"
01:54 <+iant> ajbouh: filed with the NaCl team?  we've spoken with them
01:54 < trasktrojanek> When running ./all.bash (Linux) I'm getting
"make.bash: line 41: /usr/local/bin/quietgcc: Permission denied" presumably
because I don't have quietgcc (same when GOROOT is /usr/bin)
01:54 < gointrigue> ahh..  single quites?
01:54 < archtech> It would be nice of the golang.com site had a page on
typical uses as envisioned for Go. What is it intended to be used for.
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01:55 < ajbouh> iant: yeah, was hoping to track progress on it.  wasn't sure
how high a priority it was for the core team.
01:55 < kfx> trasktrojanek: it puts quietgcc in that directory; you need
write permissions
01:55 < danopia`> trasktrojanek, is your quietgcc +x'ed?
01:55 < mjard> gointrigue: http://pastie.org/694747
01:55 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: So switch f := field.Interface().(type)
appears to be a useful construct.
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01:55 < gointrigue> GOARCH=386 GOROOT=$HOME/go GOOS=linux (output of env |
grep '^GO')
01:56 <+iant> ajbouh: I'm not sure either
01:56 < mjard> gointrigue: that's fine, you still have to export them
01:56 < gointrigue> Now what would gobin be about?
01:56 < gointrigue> I did, that is the output from grep
01:56 < mjard> where it puts the compiler
01:56 -!- sr_ is now known as sr
01:56 < gointrigue> export GOROOT='$HOME/go'; export GOOS='linux'; export
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01:57 < gointrigue> The exact lines I have in the bashrc
01:57 -!- philcrissman_ [n=philcris@174-20-188-170.mpls.qwest.net] has joined
01:57 < gointrigue> copy/pasted
01:57 < mjard> gointrigue: ok, now type "source .bashrc"
01:57 < danopia`> wait
01:57 <+iant> I'll be back in a while
01:57 < danopia`> gointrigue, use "" aroud the ones wiht $HOME
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01:57 < danopia`> so it evals the $HOME
01:58 < mjard> and you should be set
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01:58 < mjard> danopia`: single quotes work fine, as well as no quotes at
01:58 < gointrigue> I did source .bashrc
01:58 < ajbouh> iant: gotcha.  i'd like to experiment with (very)
rudimentary error isolation - is anyone hacking on this?
01:58 < gointrigue> no output to console
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01:58 < xbaez> hi
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01:59 < mjard> gointrigue: ok, now you have to build the compiler
01:59 < Jerub> documentation question:
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Type_identity_and_compatibility under 'these
types are identical' is the 3rd line a typo?
01:59 < danopia`> mjard, for me it said that it couldn't find $HOME/.bin
until i used "'s
01:59 < xbaez> i'm doing a hello worl but when i run 8l helloworld.8 it
tells me this goarch is not known: amd64
01:59 < xbaez> ??none??: cannot open file:
01:59 < xbaez> any help ?
01:59 < nutate> man...  I have access to a good 96 dual core nodes...
01:59 < danopia`> lol @ my PS1
01:59 < ajbouh> iant: can just mess around myself, if not
01:59 < danopia`> export
\[\e[33m\]\w\[\e[32m\]]\[\e[1;0m\]$\e[0m "
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01:59 < mjard> danopia`: actually, you're right
02:00 <+agl> xbaez: try running `make && make install` in $GOROOT/src/pkg
02:00 * nutate wonders if writing a simple parallel molecular dynamics code in Go
would be publishable...
02:00 < mjard> I need more caffeine
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02:00 < JBeshir> How do you create an array of slices?
02:00 < KirkMcDonald> Jerub: No, it does not appear so.
02:01 < KirkMcDonald> Jerub: Why do you think it is a typo?
02:01 * danopia` has no idea what a slice is
02:01 < KirkMcDonald> var x []int; // x is a slice
02:01 <+agl> JBeshir: make([][]int, length, cap)
02:01 < ajray> whats the diference between a slice and an array?
02:01 < JBeshir> agl: Okay, thanks.
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02:01 <+agl> ajray: a slice has a capacity for one
02:01 < KirkMcDonald> The length is part of an array's type.
02:02 < xbaez> agl it tells me Makefile:80: /src/Make.pkg: No such file or
02:02 <+agl> ajray: also, an array is included in it's containing structure,
where as a slice is more like a pointer.
02:02 <+robpike> member:identifier:kirkmcdonald: yes
02:02 < Jerub> KirkMcDonald: Ah, I think I've misunderstood this.  reading
it again.
02:02 <+agl> xbaez: you probably don't have $GOROOT set
02:02 < gointrigue> *cough* Go should be ported to a GIT repository :3
02:02 < danopia`> git++
02:02 <+agl> gointrigue: I'm afraid that decision has been make and hg won.
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02:03 < danopia`> gointrigue, google likes hg from what i've seen
02:03 < SRabbelier> gointrigue: git remote-hg coming up!
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02:03 < Jerub> okay, ignore me :)
02:03 < JBeshir> Is there any easy way to make a slice of a whole string?
02:03 < SRabbelier> gointrigue: I already have read-only support working (so
you can git clone arbitrary hg repositories, you just can't push back)
02:03 < JBeshir> foo[0:len(foo)] seems...  long.
02:03 <+robpike> JBeshir: just say foo then :)
02:03 < KirkMcDonald> JBeshir: Why slice it at all?
02:03 < kfx> haha
02:04 < gointrigue> abort: No such file or directory: $HOME/go :((((
02:04 < JBeshir> KirkMcDonald: So I can add it to an array.
02:04 < danopia`> gointrigue, did you use double quotes
02:04 <+robpike> JBeshir: if foo is an array and you want to promote it to a
slice, you can say &foo.  it means the same thing
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02:04 < gointrigue> no
02:04 < JBeshir> Okay.
02:04 < gointrigue> I made it single quotes
02:04 <+agl> JBeshir: it is long.  It's probably something that will be
02:04 < gointrigue> export GOROOT='$HOME/go';
02:04 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: That strikes me as a moderately weird choice
of syntax.
02:04 < danopia`> SRabbelier, that's good enough, now make a github repo
that updates daily from go's hg
02:04 < danopia`> gointrigue, use "
02:05 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: which is weird?
02:05 < Eridius> the biggest issue with making a git mirror is you can't
participate in the code review process
02:05 < SRabbelier> danopia`: I'm pretty sure that the github guys are
working on that regardless using hg-git
02:05 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: That &array gives a slice over the array.
02:05 < JBeshir> "cannot use &main_parameters[i] (type *string) as type
[]string" <-- Doesn't seem to work?
02:05 < KirkMcDonald> robpike: Maybe I am too used to C.
02:05 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: actually it makes a lot of sense.  a slice is
a reference to an array.  &array doesn't become a slice, but it can be assigned to
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02:05 < ojm> vim doesn't have syntax highlighting for Go yet :(
02:05 < ajray> yes it does
02:05 < kfx> ojm: it ships with go
02:05 < JBeshir> ojm: It's in...  misc/vim or something.
02:06 < ajray> check misc/vim/
02:06 < Eridius> ajray: misc/vim/
02:06 < KirkMcDonald> ojm: There's a go.vim in the repository.
02:06 < ojm> :o
02:06 < alexsuraci> is there one for emacs?
02:06 < kfx> alexsuraci: yes, you can use go.vim
02:06 < Eridius> alexsuraci: yes
02:06 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: yeah, it can be different.  it's not C
02:06 < danopia`> alexsuraci, you actually use emacs for text editing?
02:06 < alexsuraci> haha
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02:06 < ajray> its an operating system
02:06 < ojm> hey, there's a vim mode for it
02:07 < gointrigue> brb
02:07 < danopia`> don't you have your emacs install boot up as it's own OS
and then you jsut use emacs scripts instead of programs?
02:07 -!- gointrigue [i=ad1a7bb7@gateway/web/freenode/x-hrstivwkfdnjezgz] has quit
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02:07 < danopia`> like PDF viewing, IRC, image editing, etc.?
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by peer)]
02:07 < alexsuraci> i use xmonad, so, sort of close
02:07 < rando> danopia`: that's what eclipse is for!
02:07 < danopia`> web browsing
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02:08 < chrome> robpike: any chance you'll do some shorter go related videos
that expose more detail on features and included packages?
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02:08 < ajray> theres a psychiatrist in emacs too iirc
02:08 <+robpike> chrome: no plans but maybe one day
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02:08 * rando says where is book?
02:08 < alexsuraci> i used vim before I tried emacs, ended up sticking with
it for the superior indentation logic and scripting language.  didn't see it
coming either.
02:08 < ojm> I'm pretty sure there was some coffee machine that can be used
from emacs
02:09 < xbaez> thanks
02:09 <+robpike> rando: no plans but maybe one day
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02:09 < danopia`> ojm, can emacs clean my room?
02:09 < Eridius> alexsuraci: I used to use vim and I switched to emacs when
I discovered how horrendous the vim scripting language was
02:09 < Amaranth> Busy channel :)
02:09 < Eridius> though I still use textmate far more often
02:09 <+robpike> if you guys are going to have an editor war....
02:09 < Amaranth> danopia`: If you're using it correctly you won't notice
the room ;)
02:09 * Eridius also played with yi a bit
02:09 < alexsuraci> they started it :(
02:09 < Eridius> robpike: when are we going to get a CLI editor written in
02:09 < ruinevil> acme?
02:09 < danopia`> Amaranth, that's a nice one
02:09 < ojm> danopia: well you could probably command your roomba with it
02:10 < nutate> robpike: emailing my PI regarding using Go for a simple
parallel MD code...  might be publishable...  might not
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02:10 <+robpike> nutate: sounds fun
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02:10 < nutate> robpike: i have a hard time doing unfun things.  :-)
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02:11 < alexsuraci> pretty crazy how quickly this channel exploded
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02:11 < rando> robpike: and folks, thanks for the great new interesting
language, and support on this channel.  Take care.
02:11 <+robpike> alexsuraci: indeed
02:11 <+robpike> rando: thanks!
02:11 < spvensko> hi, i am a geneticist that uses scripting languages to do
simulations, and other small jobs that benefit my research.  i am decent with
python and am interested in go.  Is there anything that go offers that would
greatly benefit me in go over python?
02:12 <+robpike> spvensko: programs should run much faster, be less prone to
crashing.  but you could try it and see...
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02:12 < brunov> robpike, even compared to numpy?
02:12 <+robpike> brunov: can't say.
02:12 < chrome> robpike: i got my talker working :D
02:13 <+robpike> chrome: :)
02:13 < spvensko> so is it worth learning then as opposed to C++?
02:13 < brunov> I noticed that there are some benchmarks in the /test
directory, have you submitted them to the benchmark game page?  It'd be nice to
see the results there
02:13 < chrome> spvensko: i think it poops all over C++ :P
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02:13 < chrome> (but that isn't hard)
02:14 <+robpike> brunov: no, not yet, but that's what they're there for
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02:14 < gnibbler> will slices ever support negative indices?
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02:15 <+robpike> gnibbler: no.  we think negative indices can happen by
accident and we want to catch them.  just last week a friend had a nasty python
bug for just that reason
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02:15 < KirkMcDonald> I still like D's $-syntax.
02:15 <+robpike> KirkMcDonald: sawzall had $ too.  it might show up
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02:16 < gnibbler> robpike: so there isn't an easy way to grab the last
element using a slice?
02:16 < ajray> anyone here use elipse with go?
02:16 < ajray> eclipse*
02:16 <+robpike> gnibbler: not supertrivial no.  len(x)-1
02:16 <+robpike> robpike: i agree it could be prettier
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02:17 < Eridius> robpike: any thought to adopting ruby's convention of
treating negative indices as offsets from the end?
02:17 < Eridius> so -1 is the last element
02:17 < tsuru`> are there plans or thoughts on giving golang a REPL?
02:17 <+robpike> Eridius: see above comment to gnibbler
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02:17 < RockOn> What do I need to add to .bashrc for $GOROOT?
02:17 < Eridius> ah
02:17 < chrome> test my go talker: telnet mars.stupendous.net 5555
02:17 < KirkMcDonald> RockOn: export GOROOT=/whatever
02:18 < RockOn> thanks
02:18 <+danderson> @src Ix
02:18 <+danderson> oops
02:18 <+robpike> RockOn: probably $HOME/go if go is the root of your
mercurial chckout
02:18 < Eridius> robpike: what about introducing special syntax?  I think
someone earlier suggested foo[1:$] to have $ be the same as the length of the
02:18 < Eridius> you could then use it to be something like foo[$-1] to get
the last element
02:18 < RockOn> and...  export GOOS=linx ?
02:18 < Eridius> though that's also a bit weird
02:18 < RockOn> linux*
02:18 < KirkMcDonald> Eridius: Man we literally just had this conversation.
02:18 < Eridius> KirkMcDonald: pfft, too much chatter in here
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02:19 < KirkMcDonald> Eridius: That is D's $-syntax which I was referring
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02:19 < Eridius> ah
02:19 < Eridius> yeah I see your mention now
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02:20 < aclements> tsuru`: There is a partial implementation of an
interpreter, including a REPL, in pkg/exp/eval
02:20 < zLuke_> IS Python being discouraged at Google now in favor of go?
02:20 <+robpike> zLuke_: no of course not
02:20 < KirkMcDonald> zLuke_: They're really far from being anywhere near
similar languages...
02:21 < zLuke_> I would hope not since they really play different roles -
just waht I read on some blog
02:21 < gnibbler> zLuke_:They are working on their own Python implementation
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02:21 < zLuke_> GoPython - would love to leverage some of the Go concurrency
02:21 < danopia`> gnibbler, well of course
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02:22 < danopia`> would it be opensourced?  :P
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02:22 < KirkMcDonald> danopia`: Search for unladen-swallow.
02:22 < KirkMcDonald> danopia`: It is already open-source.
02:22 < wcn> hey kaib
02:22 <+kaib> heya wcn
02:23 < wcn> turns out those ARM920's I have are actually ARM4, not ARM5.  I
was confusing them with something else I worked on at the time.
02:23 < wcn> How much more pain am I in for?
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02:24 < kfx> unladen swallow isn't really a whole python reimplementation,
it's more like a targeted re-engineering
02:24 < KirkMcDonald> Yeah.
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02:25 <+danderson> zLuke_: don't believe everything you read on the
internet.  People make things up, when they're not wildly extrapolating some mild
02:25 < chrome> meh, someone needs to port curses to go :P
02:26 < dgnorton> i'm a linux noob trying to get go to build...getting
"make: quietgcc: Command not found"
02:26 < sstangl> chrome: why not you?
02:26 < chrome> dgnorton: GOBIN not in PATH?
02:26 < chrome> sstangl: why not indeed.  Lets see if I have a spare week to
do that :P
02:26 < sstangl> dgnorton: mkdir ~/bin
02:26 < dgnorton> no but default is $HOME/bin right?
02:26 < kfx> oh wow
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02:27 < chrome> dgnorton: set all the variables, make sure GOBIN is in PATH,
it'll work.
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02:29 < ajbentley> quietgcc error here, GOBIN is in my PATH
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02:29 < dgnorton> chrome: ok, thanks
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02:29 < chrome> can you write to GOBIN?
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02:29 < vsmatck> ajbentley: your bin directory is probably not in your PATH.
02:30 < Skaperen> trying to download Go using hg but it keeps failing ...
error message is: abort: could not import module _md5!
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02:30 < ojm> porting curses?  You are my heroes :)
02:30 < chrome> ojm: hey I didn't say I was :P
02:30 < Skaperen> this is the command I tried: hg clone -r release
https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ /tmp/gotree
02:30 < mjard> chrome: less chatting, more porting
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02:31 < chrome> :(
02:31 < ajbentley> $HOME/bin is in my path
02:31 < mjard> :D
02:31 < chrome> do you know how many routines are in ncurses?
02:31 < mjard> ajbentley: echo $GOBIN
02:32 < ojm> six?
02:32 < mjard> chrome: actually, yes I do :\
02:32 < vsmatck> ajbentley: hmm, The quietgcc program is in the bin
02:32 < chrome> a *lot*
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02:32 < ajbentley> echo $GOBIN says /home/anthony/bin
02:32 < ajbentley> and that's in my path
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02:33 < vsmatck> Is it in the $PATH of the terminal you're launching the
build command in?  Like did you do source ~/.bashrc ?
02:33 < mjard> ajbentley: and $GOARCH and $GOOS are set?
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02:34 < ajbentley> GOBIN, GOOS, GOROOT, GOARCH are set, all in one terminal
02:34 < chrome> did you use export?
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02:34 < ajbentley> oh wait, ksh is my default shell, not bash
02:34 < ajbentley> i put it in .profile and not .bashrc
02:34 < ajbentley> woops
02:35 < mjard> hehe
02:35 < diabolix> is there a place to talk about questions/concerns about
02:35 * mjard adds that to the question list
02:35 < vsmatck> ajbentley: I made exact same mistake when installing it.
02:35 < diabolix> like a forum or wiki?
02:35 < hnsr> what exactly is there difference in bash between doing
"FOO=blah" or "export FOO=blah" ? I've never really understood that
02:35 < Eridius> hnsr: the former doesn't export the variable to the
environment of any subprocesses
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02:36 < hnsr> ahh
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02:36 < tabo> without export you'd have to "FOO=blah cmd" every time you use
02:36 < hnsr> i see
02:36 < ajbentley> hm, still not working
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02:37 < vsmatck> Can you launch the quietgcc program from outside the bin
directory without the full path to it?
02:37 < chrome> anyone else think interfaces in go are freaking awesome?
02:37 < ajray> i do!
02:37 < chrome> or at least moderately exciting
02:37 < mjard> I'll give you a woo
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02:37 < dgnorton> chrome: it's building.  thanks.  Is the install guide
wrong about the default?
02:38 < chrome> awesome.
02:38 < JBeshir> Hmm.  What's Go's answer to C++'s std::set?
02:38 < chrome> dgnorton: I don't know, i just had success only once I set
all 4
02:38 < chrome> and made sure bin was writable
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02:38 < Eridius> JBeshir: I imagine you could make a set API pretty easily
based on map
02:38 < JBeshir> I see lists, vectors, and maps, but the only one of those
usable without lots of sorting logic is probably the map.
02:39 < ajbentley> "which quietgcc" says /home/anthony/bin/quietgcc, running
that says "bad interpreter: no such file or directory"
02:39 < ajray> does the emacs files support tab-completing methods (im not
good enough w/ emacs to figure it out)
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02:39 < vsmatck> ajbentley: hmm, sounds like it is finding the program.
02:39 < chrome> ajbentley: i think its just a shell script; check the
shebang line
02:40 < kuroneko> ajbentley: what are you running on?
02:40 < ajbentley> aha
02:40 < ajbentley> bash is /usr/local/bin/bash here, that must be it
02:40 < tabo> is that on bsd?
02:40 < ajbentley> yes
02:40 < chrome> dont think thats supported
02:40 < tabo> that line should be #!/usr/bin/env bash
02:40 < tabo> (or just sh)
02:40 < spvensko> what do you guys think about this issue 9 stuff that's
going on?
02:41 < chrome> Choices for $GOOS are linux, darwin (Mac OS X 10.5 or 10.6),
and nacl (Native Client, an incomplete port).
02:41 < kuroneko> spvensko: does it really matter?
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02:41 < Eridius> spvensko: I think it's pretty silly
02:41 < chrome> you need a mac or linux :P
02:41 < tabo> ah, no bsd support?
02:41 < spvensko> was just curious kuroneko, didn't mean to offend
02:41 < kuroneko> spvensko: I'm not offended - I just don't think it matters
02:41 < kuroneko> either somebody will change a name, or nobody does, go!
goes back into obscurity and go continues on happily
02:42 -!- hiromtz [n=hiromtz@h028.p027.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts
02:42 < tabo> that guy should be happy, I guess lots of people accidentally
bought his book :P
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02:43 < chrome> if anyone is interested, I wrote a simple telnet talker in
go: http://codepad.org/fkYkZwEd
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02:43 < chrome> it has lots of bugs and does many dumb things, but it works
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02:45 < hiromtz> hi i tried MinGW/Windows compile but failed..  hmm..  let's
wait official release :)
02:45 < chrome> its not ported to windows yet.
02:45 < ojm> you should port every thing to Go so that Gentoo could compile
everything really fast
02:45 < chrome> don't waste your time.
02:45 < kuroneko> ojm: you're missing a few reallys ;)
02:46 < ajbentley> success!
02:46 < ajbentley> ooh, almost
02:46 < kuroneko> ajbentley: you're using FBSD?
02:46 < kfx> the distro should then be renamed 'Gotoo' and be considered
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02:46 < ojm> DE made with this could become defacto in Gentoo :)
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02:47 < ajbentley> kuroneko: openbsd
02:47 < spvensko> ajbentley: as your main OS?
02:47 < kuroneko> you realise even if you do get it to build
02:47 < kuroneko> that it'll produce linux binaries, not OBSD binaries,
02:48 < ajbentley> spvensko: yes, kuroneko: no, but now i do ;)
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02:49 < kuroneko> ajbentley: If you're feeling adventurous, you could try
modifying [58]l to produce an OpenBSD elf header and use OpenBSD syscalls
02:49 -!- PabloG [n=pablogro@] has joined #go-nuts
02:49 < PabloG> Hello
02:49 < diabolix> does go position itself as a c replacement?  it seems like
it intends to be somewhere between C and Java, but not replacing either.
02:49 < danopia`> ajbentley, and then push it back up to the main hg reop :P
02:49 < kuroneko> but I'm not the best person to ask about these things.  :)
02:49 < PabloG> Someone make any app with go?
02:50 -!- kota1111 [n=kota1111@gw2.kbmj.jp] has joined #go-nuts
02:50 < danopia`> define 'app'
02:50 < hiromtz> chrome; thank you i understand not ported windows, i just
try and look source :)
02:50 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE506C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from
02:50 < PabloG> application like tests app.
02:50 -!- tetha [n=hk@pD9EE4847.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
02:50 < danopia`> sure
02:50 < JBeshir> I'm boredly writing the core of an IRC bot in it to learn
the language.
02:50 < danopia`> there's a hello world or so
02:50 < hiromtz> ..(want to) look source
02:50 < Eridius> JBeshir: oh hey, that's a good idea
02:50 * Eridius hasn't come up with a random sample project yet
02:50 < diabolix> can go even interface to C libraries through any sane
means yet?
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02:51 < PabloG> its has a net package for works with sockets
02:51 < kuroneko> diabolix: gccgo should be able to (if you can get it to
build >_< )
02:51 < Amaranth> an IRC bot is a great way to learn a language
02:51 < Eridius> my usual go-to is Project Euler, but that gets boring fast,
and it's really just math problems so it doesn't touch upon the majority of
02:51 * JBeshir tries to figure out his latest issue: somemap["newstring"] =
new(SomeStructure); is segfaulting
02:51 < bobappleyard1> in the process of writing a lisp interpreter in it
02:51 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@53.250.sfcn.org] has joined #go-nuts
02:51 < Amaranth> you figure out sockets, strings, etc
02:51 < danopia`> i was going to write an IRCd in it
02:51 < AirCastle> irc bots are fun
02:51 < JBeshir> An IRCD is hard to do usefully
02:51 < AirCastle> although i'm starting to wish i hadn't used twisted for
02:51 < danopia`> i wrote 3 so far in 3 different langauges
02:52 < danopia`> unless you count mIRC script xD
02:52 < PabloG> ow
02:52 < JBeshir> I mean, you can get one working quickly enough, but the bot
can actually be useful without months of work.
02:52 * Eridius wonders if it's really feasible to write a Cocoa bridge for Go
02:52 < AirCastle> i'm writing a full irc client in python/pyqt/twisted
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timed out)]
02:52 < AirCastle> it already has scripting capability
02:52 < AirCastle> i wrote a trivia bot script to test it
02:52 < AirCastle> :D
02:52 < PabloG> what about go mans
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02:52 < PabloG> lets talk about go
02:52 < danopia`> the test scripts are most fun in writing scripting stuff
02:53 < Eridius> hrm, Cocoa bridge is actually probably not possible right
now, given that IIRC you can't call into Go from C
02:53 < JBeshir> Sure.
02:53 -!- skx [i=skx@] has left #go-nuts []
02:53 < Eridius> I will ask the same question I asked yesterday: who will
write the first Go AI in Go?
02:53 < JBeshir> How do you insert into a map?
02:53 -!- freenose [n=freenose@] has joined #go-nuts
02:53 < JBeshir> 'cause somemap["string here"] = new(SomeStruct) seems to be
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timed out)]
02:54 < spvensko> ajbentley: if you don't mind me asking, why are you using
obsd as your main OS?
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02:55 < kuroneko> Eridius: Go AIs are amazingly non-trivial
02:55 < kuroneko> although, Chess OTOH...
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02:55 < Eridius> kuroneko: yeah I know
02:55 < kuroneko> much simpler rules, much simpler move trees
02:55 < me__> spvensko: why not?
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02:55 < Eridius> the best Go AI is still just a good amateur player, right?
02:55 < uman> who will be the first to write a Klondike Solitaire AI in Go?
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02:56 * kuroneko starts his *third* recompile of gccgo
02:56 < kuroneko> second one blew up during third-stage compile of libgo
02:56 < kuroneko> getting closer at least.  :)
02:56 < me__> kuroneko: what kind of system?
02:56 < rockon> make.bash: line 20: /bin/quietgcc: Permission denied
02:57 < rockon> any suggestions?
02:57 < PabloG> aha
02:57 < Eridius> how do you even compile gccgo?  Running all.bash only gave
me the plan9-style compilers
02:57 < kuroneko> me__: Ubuntu 9.10 on amd64
02:57 < Innominate> jbeshir: try make()ing the map before using it
02:57 < spvensko> me__: i always imagined obsd as having a very limited
software library
02:57 < kuroneko> Eridius: seperate repo
02:57 < PabloG> chmod +x /bin/quitegcc
02:57 < Eridius> ahhh
02:57 < kuroneko> rockon: set GOBIN
02:57 < JBeshir> Innominate: It's in a structure.  How can I do that?
02:57 < me__> spvensko: fair.  I us Dragonfly bsd on my desktop, i can
02:57 < Innominate> good question, duno heh
02:57 < Ycros> what's the easiest way to read the entire contents of a
Reader into a string?
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02:57 < rockon> i think i set gobin to the wrong directory
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02:58 < kuroneko> rockon: that would suggest it's set to an empty string to
02:58 < kuroneko> err, or /bin
02:58 < kuroneko> which is bad
02:58 < rockon> i set it to bin
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02:58 < rockon> how can i know which to set it to
02:58 < PabloG> use sudo
02:58 < bobappleyard1> i just left GOBIN blank
02:59 < PabloG> for the execution.  cos you have some privliages problems
02:59 < kuroneko> I would suggest setting it to /usr/local/bin or ~/bin
02:59 < PabloG> its easy to solve
02:59 < rockon> Thanks
02:59 < kuroneko> PabloG: except the tests fail as root.
02:59 < bobappleyard1> leaving GOBIN blank defaults it to ~/bin
02:59 < PabloG> ok set chmod -R 777 /
02:59 < PabloG> ahahaha
02:59 < kuroneko> bad PabloG!  bad!  :)
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03:00 < bobappleyard1> PabloG: being mean to n00bs i see
03:01 < PabloG> ahaha its just a joke!!
03:01 < ajbentley> spvensko: i'm just used to it, it's the first non-window
os i've used and it has enough programs for me (web browser, mail client, irc...)
03:01 < kuroneko> PabloG: you should know better than to joke about such
things with the inexperienced present - they might actually do it >_<
03:01 < ajbentley> of course software is always a battle, as demonstrated by
the fact that go still won't build here :P
03:02 < me__> ajbentley: what are you on?
03:02 < PabloG> ok sorry thats right.
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03:02 < ajbentley> me__: openbsd i386
03:02 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: i haven't tried it, but i think: line, err =
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03:02 < chrome> ajbentley: its not supported on *bsd
03:02 < PabloG> sorry for all.
03:02 < chrome> ajbentley: you need linux or macos
03:02 < Ruonkrak> so when's the go git repository going live ^_^
03:02 < ajbentley> i know chrome, but i thought i'd try anyway
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03:02 < me__> ajbentley: so i'm working on a port to Dragonfly atm.  how
different is openbsd?
03:03 < Ruonkrak> otherwise, i'm going to tar it up and send it to my
firewalled work account
03:03 < rockon> total noob question, what command do i need to use after
editing bashrc for the changed to take effect?
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03:03 < Ruonkrak> rockon: . .bashrc
03:03 < ajbentley> i don't really know, haven't tried the others
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03:04 < me__> ajbentley: i meant, does it have stuff like rfork() and a
thread local storage?
03:04 < Rob_Russell> rockon: if you have a large/complex/ugly .bashrc, you
can also just close the terminal & open a new one
03:04 < spvensko> ajbentley: do you use X? or just CLI?
03:04 < ajbentley> me__: that's beyond me
03:04 < rockon> thanks
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03:04 < ajbentley> spvensko: i use x, with cwm (comes by default)
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03:06 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: ReadString only exists on bufio.Reader, not on
io.Reader, and it takes a delimiter to stop on - I just want to read the whole
thing into a string
03:06 < dgnorton> chrome: also had to "hg pull -u" before ./all.bash would
run clean
03:07 < ajbentley> anyway, i got it to build as far as it did by specifying
bash and gnu make instead of the defaults, but it dies building gopack
03:07 < Ruonkrak> was pleasantly surprised that ./all.bash ran clean (second
time) on Ubuntu after all prereqs were installed (386)
03:07 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: I mean, it works, if I pass in null as a
delimiter byte, and work on err == EOF.  But I have to create a buffered reader in
between as well.  It feels too verbose, and like there should be a simpler way of
doing it
03:07 < bobappleyard1> Ycros: io.ReadAll ??
03:07 < me__> ajbentley: do you have the error message?  also, at least on
dfly, with torque it can be made to build, but 8l will only generate linux
03:08 < me__> (linux or $GOOS as the case may be)
03:08 -!- ayo [n=nya@f051102245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit
03:08 < Ycros> bobappleyard1: that gets me to a byte array, how do I get
that to a string?
03:08 < ajbentley> quietgcc -ggdb -I/home/anthony/golang/include -O2
-fno-inline -c /home/anthony/golang/src/cmd/gopack/ar.c
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03:09 < ajbentley> src/cmd/gopack/ar.c:1222: warning: passing argument 1 of
'ctime' from incompatible pointer type
03:09 < bobappleyard1> Ycros: one minute
03:09 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: bytes.Buffer.String() will do it
03:09 < bobappleyard1> Ycros: there you go
03:09 < Ycros> cool.
03:09 < ajbentley> that's gcc 4.2.4, same message on 3.3.5
03:09 < spvensko> ajbentley: you've convinced me to try it out
03:10 < ajbentley> spvensko: cool
03:10 < PabloG> Google is watching us.
03:10 < mjard> oh shit
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03:10 < PabloG> shh
03:10 < me__> ajbentley: that's just a warning; the build should continue
03:10 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: so I guess I have to NewBuffer up a buffer.
03:11 < ajbentley> me__: it stops, next line is "make: *** [ar.o] Error 1"
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03:12 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: it's messy but this might be enough code to show
where i used it http://pastie.org/694815
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03:14 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: I know how to use it, I still feel it's a little
too much work
03:14 < gointrigue> Ok I am stuck on this $PATH deal
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03:14 < gointrigue> $GOBIN is not a directory or does not exist create it or
set $GOBIN differently
03:14 < darthlukan> good evening everyone
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03:15 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: though you get []byte out of ReadFile, whereas I
start from a Reader which I first have to read into a byte array.  Dunno.
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03:15 < darthlukan> gointrigue: $mkdir ~/bin
03:16 < gointrigue> my path
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03:16 < darthlukan> gointrigue: that's great, mkdir /home/yourname/bin
03:16 < kfx> export PATH="$PATH:$HOME/bin"
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03:17 < ajbentley> me__: looking at gccquiet.bash, it looks like that stops
the build on purpose
03:17 -!- benno [n=benno@vl10.gw.ok-labs.com] has quit ["leaving"]
03:17 < gointrigue> shit, I didn't capitolize path in that
03:17 < gointrigue> how do I delete it?  lol
03:17 < ajbentley> quietgcc.bash*
03:17 < catron> is there any straightforward way to begin wrapping libraries
into Go?
03:18 < catron> C/C++
03:18 < catron> cgo looks pretty rudimentary
03:18 < doublec> cgo seems to be the way
03:18 < catron> hmm..  okay
03:18 < doublec> you could cgo around libffi and then use that maybe
03:19 < catron> I will play around a little more then..  thanks
03:19 < kfx> or just port the library
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timed out)]
03:19 < kfx> why bother switching to a new language if you're just going to
drag all your old cruft along with you
03:19 < Eridius> heh, /r/golang already exists
03:19 < doublec> because sometimes you just want to get a task done
03:19 < doublec> not implement the world required to even start the task
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03:19 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: what language did you select at pastie - C ?
03:20 < kuroneko> yo Ycros.  fancy running into you here.  :)
03:20 < catron> What support does Go have for X11?  The draw package
mentions it but I haven't found anything else
03:20 < Ycros> kuroneko: hello :)
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03:20 < kfx> doublec: if you're in a hurry to ship a program go might not be
the answer
03:21 < me__> yay!!!  an 8l produced binary is running on bsd!
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(Connection timed out)]
03:21 < doublec> kfx, I'm mainly referring to playing around with the
03:21 < catron> Go should support all POSIX compliant systems if I am not
03:21 < me__> catron: totally not yet.
03:21 < doublec> kfx, in general though I do agree that writing native stuff
in the language is more interesting
03:21 < catron> oh?
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03:22 < me__> look at src/pkg/runtime/linux for good times.
03:22 < gointrigue> I am more or less interested in writing a threaded
non-blocking server daemon for my windows app, if I use Go, then I can host the
server on my existing linux box and still be able to write the UI and what not
with WPF/C# under windows.
03:22 < gointrigue> However, doesn't seem to be many examples of using Go's
03:22 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: I mean, look how I'm using it -
http://pastie.org/694825 - seems to me like I should be able to do that with less
03:23 < JBeshir> gointrigue: You mean basic sockets?
03:23 < catron> me__: The implementation seems to be minimal
03:23 < rockon> GOT IT!
03:23 < gointrigue> yar
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03:23 < JBeshir> gointrigue: http://pastebin.com/m55eff7cb <-- I have a
03:23 < gointrigue> nifty
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03:23 < gointrigue> More looking for the server side of it though
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03:23 < JBeshir> Ah.
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03:24 < Ycros> gointrigue: there's http serving stuff in go, look at the
sources of that
03:24 < me__> catron: the dependence on the structure of the OS's TLS,
making syscalls by itself (the runtime doesn't link libc),
03:24 < catron> ah
03:24 < Ycros> gointrigue: infact golang.org is running on go I believe
03:24 < me__> catron: knowldege in 8l of how to make linux elfs (and darwin
mach-o) only...
03:24 < doublec> catron, there's some example code using SDL
03:24 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: don't know what language i picked on pastie
03:24 < doublec> catron, http://gist.github.com/232088
03:24 < catron> thanks me__ and doubnlec
03:24 < doublec> (found from the reddit go-lang area)
03:25 < catron> *doublec
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03:25 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: your code fragment seems to highlight better
than mine - I picked C/C++, but anyway it's still readable
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timed out)]
03:25 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: your code looks fine, i think it could look
shorter in other languages if the error-checking is left out
03:26 < gointrigue> Ycros, not HTTP, though.
03:26 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: it could, but I don't like going Reader ->
[]byte -> Buffer -> string, it feels like I should be able to go Reader
-> String
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03:26 < gointrigue> Like, straight TCP sockets
03:26 < gointrigue> maybe even UDP
03:26 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: ahh
03:26 < Ycros> gointrigue: yes, but the http server obviously has to use TCP
sockets underneath
03:26 < gointrigue> True
03:27 < rockon> wow i was about to give up, then i got it :)
03:27 < Ycros> gointrigue: ie.  in http://golang.org/src/pkg/http/
03:28 < goto> is windows support planned?
03:28 < Ycros> gointrigue: check func ListenAndServe in server.go in that
dir as an entrypoint
03:28 < Ycros> gointrigue: it uses the "net" package
03:28 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: but io.Reader just gets you the bytes, so you
have to do something to parse it.  with ascii in C we used to be able to skip that
03:28 < catron> Is SWiG integration underway?
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03:29 < JBeshir> Hmm.
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03:29 < JBeshir> How is Go supposed to compare to C in memory usage?
03:29 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: yes, yes, I just think that I should be able to
get a string without having to allocate and create an intermediary []byte
array/slice and a buffer on top
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03:29 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: because getting strings out of readers (ie.  to
print them out) seems commonish
03:29 < ArekZB> gointrigue: are you still having problems ?
03:29 < Rob_Russell> Ycros: yeah, since there's a WriteString in io, i don't
see why there isn't a ReadString
03:30 < Ycros> Rob_Russell: I mean, for the readline case (ie.  parsing
line-based network protocols) we have a ReadString in bufio - but its delimiter is
a mandatory argument
03:31 < kuroneko> Rob_Russell: you'll find readline in bio probably
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03:32 < kuroneko> sorry, bufio
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03:33 < kuroneko> Rob_Russell: in fact, see ReadString in bufio.Reader
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03:34 < Ycros> kuroneko: I just mentioned that :)
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03:34 < kuroneko> Ycros: yeah, ok, I'm a ltitle behind today.  sleepy and
03:35 < kuroneko> from too much EVE + fighting with gccgo + work
03:35 < gointrigue> ArekZB: Not at the moment
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03:35 < Rob_Russell> kuroneko: hehe, yeah, i've been in to bufio already
03:35 < Ycros> kuroneko: I haven't tried gccgo yet, but the default compiler
works wonderfully
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03:36 < kuroneko> Ycros: I'm only trying gccgo because I want to bridge into
03:36 -!- slicslak [n=slicslac@c-68-50-207-133.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined
03:36 < kuroneko> and because having an ABI "compatible" interface would be
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03:36 < kuroneko> don't really want to have to reinvent curses for go.
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03:37 < Rob_Russell> kuroneko: so gccgo is needed for the C FFI?
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03:38 < Ycros> there is cgo, which has been mentioned in here before, don't
know how nice it is to use though
03:39 < rbancroft> they are working on swig
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03:40 < rbancroft> rob mentioned it in the google talk
03:40 < kuroneko> cgo compiles C code to match the go compiler's ABI
03:40 < kuroneko> whereas gccgo compiles go code to match the system ABI
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03:41 < dgnorton> guessing debugger support is very limited at this point?
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03:41 < Rob_Russell> dgnorton: yeah, but see the Ogle package if you're
03:41 < Ycros> rbancroft: they're working on swig for C++ stuff, not so much
for C stuff
03:41 < kuroneko> also, gccgo uses the gcc linker, etc, and all the
headaches and lack of performance to go with it too I'm sure
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03:41 < kuroneko> well, lack of compiler performance.
03:42 < dgnorton> Rob_Russell, thx
03:42 < kuroneko> I'm sure the output code is fine :)
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03:43 < Rob_Russell> kuroneko: sounds good, maybe by the time i'm ready to
call into C libraries someone will have an easy gccgo how-to for me :)
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03:43 < Ycros> kuroneko: so, why'd you pick gccgo over cgo then?
03:44 < kuroneko> Ycros: I'm not compiling ncurses with cgo.
03:44 < Ycros> kuroneko: I'm just looking at the cgo libgmp wrapper in the
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03:44 < kuroneko> also, I'm interested in making gccgo work on insane
platforms ;)
03:44 < kuroneko> I've been busy trying to get it to build on my Sol10 box
at home
03:44 < me__> kuroneko: good luck.
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03:45 < kuroneko> whereas I'm not quite up for rewriting kc/kg/ka/kl yet
03:45 < Ycros> kuroneko: uh, it doesn't look like they compiled libgmp with
cgo, just a wrapper around it
03:45 < me__> kuroneko: they're available, as part of inferno, fwiw.
03:45 < kuroneko> me__: I'm well aware of that
03:45 < kuroneko> you just dont' know kc/ka/kl very well, do you?
03:45 * kuroneko cringes
03:46 < me__> no..  that bad?
03:46 < kuroneko> plan9's use of kc is extremely ABI incompatible
03:46 < me__> cheers.  howso?
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03:47 < kuroneko> no register window guards or usage - happily stomp all
over the full register set, and ignore the precidence of where SP/FP are supposed
to sit.
03:47 < kuroneko> you can try to stub out, which is what I was doing in my
sun4m tree for plan9
03:47 < catron> I was thinking of writing an eclipse plugin for Go. Is there
such a project already?
03:48 -!- dakii [n=Tyler@c-98-244-28-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
03:48 < Ycros> catron: probably not, go for it
03:48 < catron> cool
03:48 * Ycros happily continues using emacs
03:48 < catron> :P
03:48 < catron> I use emacs for some stuff, but eclipse is very nice
03:48 < kuroneko> but in the end, I had some horribly problem with not being
able to get the SP quite right
03:48 < ajbentley> i got everything except cov and prof to build on openbsd
03:48 < kuroneko> because ABI SP and 9 SP sit on different registers
03:49 < Ycros> catron: I mean, go includes emacs and vim plugins in the
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03:49 < kuroneko> kc/ka/kl probably can be made ABI-safe, but i haven't
tried yet
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03:49 < ajbentley> compiled a hello world with 8g, and when copied to a
linux box it works fine, woohoo
03:49 < dakii> Is there anyway to get a windows version or is Go reverse
03:49 < kuroneko> and they generate sparcv8 code, not v9.
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03:49 < kuroneko> well, actually, sparcv7
03:49 < kuroneko> and v8 if you turn on the magic "use hwmultiply" flag
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03:50 < sstangl> dakii: there is a way; it requires a port.
03:50 < kuroneko> there is a sparcv9 compiler too which newsham worked on
03:50 < kuroneko> but I haven't looked at it in detail
03:50 < MonadRagout> Is it possible to type a map over a structure
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03:50 < eydaimon> Eridius: you around?
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03:51 < dgnorton> this is fun and all but "The Gathering Storm" calls before
03:51 -!- luca__ [n=luca@host29.190-230-2.telecom.net.ar] has joined #go-nuts
03:51 < me__> kuroneko: how far did you get with sun4m?
03:51 < kuroneko> me__: MMU headaches.
03:51 < kuroneko> and swearing at the ABI mismatch
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closed the connection]
03:52 < kuroneko> my resolution was if I was going to finish it, I was going
to make the compiler ABI safe at the very least
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03:52 < luca__> hello, I'm giving Go a try by porting a small program and I
have a doubt about error handling.  I do an os.Open() and I want to peek at the
errno in case of error
03:52 < luca__> how can I do that?
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03:52 < kuroneko> so I can call openprom to retrive stuff like physpage map
and hardware config
03:52 < kuroneko> rather than leaving the brute-force probing code in there
03:52 < me__> fair.
03:53 < Ycros> luca__: if you look at the docs, it returns the file as well
as the error
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03:53 < gointrigue> Argh :(
03:53 < gointrigue> 8g: command not found
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03:53 < luca__> Ycros: yes, I saw, but I still don't know how can I get the
errno from the error
03:53 < asonge> gointrigue: is $GOBIN part of $PATH?
03:53 < kuroneko> luca__: what's this errno thing?
03:53 < kuroneko> ;)
03:54 < luca__> kuroneko: the error number from the OS
03:54 < gointrigue> It was supposed to be >.<
03:54 < ArekZB> luca__: // It returns the File and an Error, if any.
03:54 < gointrigue> I thought I set it
03:54 < ArekZB> luca__: return NewFile(r, name), nil;
03:54 < kfx> gointrigue: you need to put that export PATH="$PATH:$HOME/bin"
line in your .bashrc
03:55 < kfx> so that it's set in your bash shells
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03:55 < luca__> ArekZB: I know that, but Error is defined as an interface
with just the String method
03:55 < luca__> I want to peek at the errno, because it's ok for me if the
file already exist, but it's an error otherwise (permission problems for example)
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03:56 < Ycros> luca__: I think you just check if err is os.EEXIST then
03:56 < hensonsturg> if your function has multiple return values, how do you
assign it to variables?
03:56 < me__> kuroneko: i think i did something wrong.  :) i got 8l to
generate a mipseb ecoff?
03:57 < hensonsturg> var1, var2 := MultipleFunc() ?
03:57 < Ycros> hensonsturg: yes
03:57 < kuroneko> me__: umm..  err...  "ow"?
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03:57 < leimy> #haskell
03:57 < luca__> ok, a PathError is returned, and it looks like the Error
attribute from PathError is an Errno...  I guess I have to cast a lot to get to
the errno :S
03:57 < leimy> oops
03:57 < Ycros> leimy: no, not really
03:58 < hensonsturg> Ycros, thanks!
03:58 < asonge> there any vim or editor plugins for go yet?
03:58 < kuroneko> luca__: test against the E...  value you want
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03:58 < gointrigue> this time it didn't give me an error
03:58 < kuroneko> luca__: don't look for the number.
03:58 < Ycros> asonge: yes, vim and emacs - look in misc
03:58 < gointrigue> but how do I run the go app?  lol
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03:58 <+kaib> wcn: sorry, priority interrupt
03:58 < Ycros> asonge: and xcode apparently
03:58 < ArekZB> hmm , i'm pretty sure Open will return nil if perms fail
03:58 < asonge> Ycros: tyvm
03:58 <+kaib> wcn: don't know really.  i think the codegen is ancient, you
might be good.
03:59 <+kaib> wcn: as long as you can jtag into them you can figure things
03:59 < luca__> kuroneko: ?!
03:59 < wcn> kaib: ok, thanks.
03:59 < wcn> kaib: lol, that's a truism.
03:59 < kuroneko> luca__: os defines all the common unix errors
03:59 <+kaib> wcn: most of the instruction set used for codgen is the really
old ones, from late eighties, early nineties.
03:59 < gointrigue> nvm duh, got it
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03:59 < kuroneko> EPERM, ENOENT, etc
04:00 <+kaib> wcn: ep, get output and you are fine ..  :-)
04:00 < kuroneko> if you're interested in the error, either use the String
method to get a human readable version of the error
04:00 < gointrigue> damn it my mibbit is not auto-scrolling
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04:00 < kuroneko> or test against the defined values to se if it's the one
you want
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04:00 < luca__> kuroneko: I know, but you said: kuroneko | luca__: don't
look for the number.
04:00 < kuroneko> yes, don't look for the _number_
04:01 < kuroneko> ie: the actual hard defined number itself isn't all that
accessible it seems
04:01 < Ycros> luca__: because you don't need the errno
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04:01 < luca__> Ycros: why not?
04:01 < kuroneko> so you work with what you can instead.
04:01 < Ycros> luca__: because the errors are already defined in os and you
can test for them
04:01 < luca__> Ycros: how
04:02 < kuroneko> switch error { case os.EPERM : ...  }
04:02 < kuroneko> or any other method you like.
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04:04 < gointrigue> crap, it has been a while since last I coded under
linux.  What was that one lovely editor, tabs, syntax highlighting
04:04 < gointrigue> beans or something, or I forget
04:04 < the_hoser> gointrigue: netbeans
04:04 < kfx> gointrigue: bim
04:04 < kuroneko> oh god no - not netbeans
04:04 < Ycros> gointrigue: netbeans.  But it won't have support for go yet.
04:04 * kuroneko cringes
04:04 < kfx> vim
04:05 < gointrigue> Wait wait no, that isn't what I meant
04:05 < the_hoser> gointrigue: most get by with gedit.
04:05 < gointrigue> Geany is what I was thinking about
04:05 < kfx> it has tabs and syntax highlighting
04:05 < the_hoser> gointrigue: or vim if you're noraml
04:05 < Ycros> gointrigue: if you don't know vim, try emacs
04:05 < gointrigue> oh god vim
04:05 < kfx> that was the good kind of 'oh god' right
04:05 < gointrigue> no
04:05 < the_hoser> hehe
04:05 < gointrigue> lol
04:05 < gointrigue> I don't have the mental capacity for vim
04:05 < Ycros> gointrigue: in $GOROOT/misc/emacs/ you'll find emacs files
that'll enable hilighting and indentation
04:06 < gointrigue> I get turned into goop
04:06 < kfx> the good kind of turned into goop?
04:06 < gointrigue> No
04:06 < rbancroft> the symbol highlighting is slightly off in emacs
04:06 < gointrigue> it is the "Oh god make it stop make it stop!!" kind of
04:06 * kuroneko seriously considers sticking up a hudson against the go tree
04:06 < Ycros> gointrigue: read the top of go-mode-load.el - it tells you
how to get it to load in emacs
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04:06 < gointrigue> I found it, though
04:06 < gointrigue> http://www.geany.org/Documentation/Screenshots
04:06 < gointrigue> Geany is <3
04:07 < Ycros> gointrigue: yeah, but it doesn't have go support yet, does it
04:07 < kfx> yeah geany's okay
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04:07 < kfx> but it doesn't do anything gvim doesn't do
04:07 < gointrigue> I don't doubt that ;D
04:08 < cold-penguin> howdy
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04:08 < Ycros> each to their own
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04:08 < Ycros> I was a vim user for years, I only recently (as in, the last
year) switched to emacs
04:08 < mynameiskristoph> i have an odd question...  how steep of a learning
curve will I have with go if I am coming from a few years c# .net and barely any
php/asp !?
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04:09 < kfx> fortunately, php and asp have nothing to do with programming,
so you can disregard those
04:09 < gointrigue> If only they had named Go something a bit better
04:09 < gointrigue> I can't find shit for it on google hardly *sigh*
04:09 < mrd`> gogurt
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04:10 < mynameiskristoph> I've been using vim for a few months now and love
it (it was the only text editor I could find to open a few hunder meg txt file)
04:10 < rbancroft> that's because it only came out a day ago
04:10 < mynameiskristoph> yeah I just heard about go from a friend on
twitter who saw it on abduzeedo
04:11 < Jerub> i've been a vim user for probably a decade now
04:11 < kuroneko> emacs user for over a decade myself.
04:11 < Jerub> i tried emacs.  it kinda worked.
04:11 < mynameiskristoph> I think I am going to have a steep learning curve
though because all my programming for the past 5 years or so has been web
programming / scripting
04:12 < kuroneko> and microemacs before that.  >_>
04:12 < luca__> kuroneko: my question was, how can I get the "error", I
found an example in the effective go document
04:12 < gointrigue> any way to load the highlighting file into geany in some
fashion?  :3
04:12 < Ycros> gointrigue: search for "go lang" maybe
04:12 < Jerub> but viper-mode et al would randomly switch itself off when
doing complicated tihngs.
04:12 < kuroneko> luca__: oh, easy.
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04:12 < Ycros> gointrigue: the highlighting files are written for emacs and
vim specifically
04:12 < kuroneko> handle, error := io.Open ....
04:12 < Ycros> gointrigue: feel free to write one for geany :P
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04:12 < asonge> gointrigue: you can use the site: feature in google, not
that many sites with information on go afaik
04:12 < kuroneko> you can have tuples on the left-hand side
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04:13 < kuroneko> in fact, it's an error if the left-hand side doesn't have
enough elements specified to receive the return value
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04:13 < luca__> kuroneko: that gives me an Error, but the real returned type
is PathError, to get the Errno I have cast the Error to PathError and access the
Error attribute, right?
04:13 < kuroneko> no
04:14 < Ycros> luca__: you don't need the Errno - as we pointed out before
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04:14 < luca__> Ycros: I still don't get why I don't need the Errno
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04:14 < luca__> this is the example in effective go:
04:14 < luca__> file, err = os.Open(filename, os.O_RDONLY, 0)
04:15 < luca__> ...
04:15 < luca__> if e, ok := err.(*os.PathError); ok && e.Error == os.ENOSPC
04:15 < ArekZB> luca: f, err := os.Open( "file.dat" , os.O_RDONLY, 0444); if
err != nil { fmt.Printf("%v\n" , err.String()) } will print permission denied if
perms fail for example
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04:15 < luca__> the example access e.Error which is an Errno
04:15 < luca__> Ycros: do you have a better way?
04:15 < luca__> kuroneko: do you?
04:15 < Ycros> isn't e.Error an Error not an Errno?
04:15 < luca__> I really don't understand what you mean
04:16 < Ycros> yeah it is
04:16 < luca__> Ycros: os.Open return this: return nil, &PathError{"open",
name, Errno(e)}
04:16 < luca__> Ycros: Error is an interface, Errno is the real type
04:16 < luca__> Ycros: Errno, since it have the String method, satisfy the
Error interface
04:16 < luca__> except I'm getting all this wrong
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04:17 < kuroneko> oh bloody hell.
04:17 < kuroneko> stage 2 vs 3 differences again.
04:18 < kuroneko> no wait, it passed!
04:18 < kuroneko> yay!
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04:19 < luca__> ArekZB: I don't want to print anything
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04:19 < albertito> ArekZB: as I understand it, he wants the errno value so
he can do different things depending on what failed
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04:21 < albertito> ArekZB: so neither the string nor the knowledge there was
an error is enough
04:22 < gointrigue> configure: error: Building GCC requires GMP 4.2+ and
MPFR 2.3.2+.
04:22 < cold-penguin> What exactly does ReadFile() in io return?  According
to the source code it's: []byte, os.Error.  Is that a byte array and an error
04:22 < gointrigue> byte slice and error class
04:22 < gointrigue> I believe
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04:23 < cold-penguin> gointrigue: is that a pointer or does it just copy the
entire array on return?
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04:23 <+kaib> cold-penguin: os.Error is simply an interface that contains
String() string.
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04:23 < cold-penguin> kaib: ok
04:23 <+kaib> cold-penguin: it's a slice.  think of it as a reference.
04:24 < gointrigue> so pointer, essentually?
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04:24 < gointrigue> when trying to build gccgo: configure: error: Building
GCC requires GMP 4.2+ and MPFR 2.3.2+.
04:24 < pandrew> hello!  is it possible to do polymorphism when a method is
calling another method from the same object?
04:25 -!- ablegreen [i=a9e54b72@gateway/web/freenode/x-czusstyrwuuvlbbx] has
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04:25 < gointrigue> pandrew = writing a virus!  run!  ;P
04:25 < droid0011> kuroneko: you must rm -rf * before ../gccgo/configure ,
the diff prob is then gone here.  I am now figuring out how to solve a missing
linux/user.h problem :(
04:25 < pandrew> gointrigue: huh?  i'm talking about object oriented
04:25 < kuroneko> droid0011: yeah, I'm working on that now too
04:26 < kuroneko> the problem is it's not using the kernel headers
04:26 < kmc> can i write the polymorphic "map" function in Go?
04:26 < gointrigue> I know, last time I heard about polymorphism I was
reading about some nasty malware ;P
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04:26 < Ycros> luca__: yeah, you have to: err.(*os.PathError).Error to get
at the error to compare it to os.EEXIST or os.EACCES or whatever
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04:26 < gointrigue> Any reason I am getting: configure: error: Building GCC
requires GMP 4.2+ and MPFR 2.3.2+.  when attempting to configure gccgo?
04:26 < pandrew> as in if A has two methods A1, and A2, and B is a subclass
of A;A1 calls A2; and B overrides A2; i want B.A1 to call B.A2 instead of A.A2
04:26 < Ycros> luca__: I just tested it out - I thought you could compare it
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04:27 < Ycros> luca__: since Open returns err as type Error
04:27 < pandrew> i don't think this can be solved with interfaces
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04:27 < droid0011> kuroneko: well they are gone for userspace :(
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04:28 < luca__> Ycros: yes, I tested it too, I just wondered if you had a
better way to do it, because it seems a little odd having to "cast" the error to
PathError when PathError is the only error that can be returned
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04:29 < Ycros> luca__: it does seem odd, it feels like Open should actually
return PathError and not Error
04:29 < kmc> can i write a function that applies another function to every
element of a slice?
04:30 < Ycros> luca__: anything with a String() can be passed off as an
04:31 < kuroneko> ok, finally have it dying in a consistant spot
04:31 < gointrigue> apt-get: Setting up The Bomb ...
04:32 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: as far as I can see, there are no "subclasses"
in Go.
04:32 < droid0011> kuroneko: I realy don't grok the grep/sed mksysinfo.sh
hell ;)
04:32 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: so your question doesn't make much sense.
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04:32 < kuroneko> ah
04:32 < kuroneko> found the problem.  tracing.
04:32 < pandrew> NfNitLoop: ok, whathever the mechanism is called to
simulate something like subclasses
04:32 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: you can have class A, and class B, and if you
want to use them interchangably, you define a common interface and just accept
objects of that interface.
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04:33 < Ycros> kmc: yes, but there's already one that does it - iterable.Map
04:33 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: so, since it's not really a subclass, it's not
really an override.
04:33 < chrome> irritable?  :P
04:33 < gointrigue> I think I did something bad lol
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04:34 < gointrigue> damn me and my linux noobery
04:34 < gointrigue> I did sudo apt-get upgrade gcc
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04:34 < Ycros> kmc: there's one in strings and another in bytes too
04:34 < gointrigue> and it is going nuts lol
04:34 < kuroneko> droid0011: you need full kernel source
04:34 < kmc> Ycros, so it uses interface{} for parametric polymorphism?
04:34 < kuroneko> the standard headerset isn't enough
04:35 < dsal> (hopefully) quick question: Is there an easy way to map a
[]byte to and from a struct?  (or otherwise pull out specific bits of data with
endian conversion)
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04:36 < kuroneko> basically, it needs the ptrace headers and they're just
not available any other way
04:36 < ablegreen> how do you compile a go program into an .exe file?
04:37 < droid0011> kuroneko: hmm, but how to add to the build-system the
kernel -I path?
04:37 < tuckerkevin> cp foo.go foo.exe
04:37 < kfx> amazing
04:37 < kuroneko> <ksrc>/include
04:37 < kuroneko> yes
04:37 < ablegreen> thanks tucker
04:37 < tuckerkevin> :)
04:38 < mrd`> ablegreen: There's not support for Windows yet.
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04:38 < trasktrojanek> I don't seem to have gccgo, isn't it supposed to be
installed by default?
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04:38 < ablegreen> mrd: what do you mean?
04:38 < pandrew> NfNitLoop: ok, so let me rephrase: if there is a struct A.
There is struct B having an anonymous field A. stuct A has two methods attached:
A1, and A2. all that A1 does is call A2. B overrides the method A2. if i call
binstance.A2 then i get B.A2.  If i call binstance.A1 then i get A.A2.  is there a
way that i could get B.A2 in both cases?
04:38 < kmc> so is the conversion from my-concrete-type to interface{} and
back going to cause overhead when calling Map?
04:38 < mrd`> ablegreen: Only Linux, OS X, and NaCl right now.
04:39 < kmc> or will that get compiled out?
04:39 < ablegreen> mrd: ah i see...
04:39 < mrd`> ablegreen: And none of those use .exe.
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04:39 < ablegreen> mrd: read some article saying go can compile into 'native
04:39 < cold-penguin> We don't have to declare variables that are returned
from function before hand?
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04:40 < Ycros> kmc: not sure, it's casting so I think it's runtime type
checks - they're pondering how to add generics to the language
04:40 < tuckerkevin> the have executables, but not exe, use 6g 6l to get an
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04:40 < mrd`> ablegreen: Yes.  On Linux, OS X, and NaCl.  :P
04:40 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: that requires a more traditional OO language
with virtual methods.  I haven't seen virtual methods in Go so far, I assume they
don't exist.
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04:40 < gointrigue> gah, still having issues trying to get gccgo built
04:40 < gointrigue> keeps griping about MPFR library and GMP library
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04:41 < NfNitLoop> NfNitLoop: now, I only started looking at Go this
morning, so maybe someone else knows better.  ;)
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04:42 < pandrew> NfNitLoop: i am assuming that in case of anonymous fields
the methods are not copied to all types that have them, but only one instance
04:42 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: that is my assumption as well.
04:42 < Ycros> gointrigue: yeah, it seems like there are issues with gccgo -
do you need gccgo as opposed to the default compiler?
04:42 < kmc> NfNitLoop, aren't interface methods basically virtual?
04:42 < NfNitLoop> and in fact, all those methods still seem to operate on a
struct that is the "superclass" equivalent.
04:42 < gointrigue> No, I was merely curious about using itt.
04:42 < ablegreen> what do you guys think of the language so far?  I am
looking at the sample code and it doesn't seem to be simpler than C
04:42 < kmc> otherwise what good are they?
04:42 < NfNitLoop> kmc: In a way, but not like virtual methods in C++ or
04:42 < pandrew> NfNitLoop: the way i see it each method is both virtual and
static.  depending on how you call it.  if you call it trough an interface it is
virtual.  What i'd like to see is the ability to have a method with an interface
receiver, or something like that.
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04:43 < NfNitLoop> kmc: see pandrew's example above for the case that
04:44 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: Yeah, I tried something like that earlier and it
didn't seem to work.  :p
04:44 < rbancroft> ah, is it just me or is go-mode broken
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04:44 < Ycros> rbancroft: works for me
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04:44 < rbancroft> Ycros: does if x == 0 indent properly for you?
04:44 < dsal> rbancroft: go-mode is pretty broken when it comes to
04:45 < mrd`> dsal: I've noticed that.  :(
04:45 < rbancroft> dsal: ahh, ok that's what I'm noticing :)
04:45 < Ycros> rbancroft: yes - however leaving semicolons off doesn't
04:45 < houst0n> Hmmm..  So go seems pretty popular already
04:45 < dsal> I end up running ``M-x gofmt'' a lot.
04:45 < Ycros> dsal, rbancroft: if you put all your semicolons in it's fine
04:45 < ablegreen> does anyone have syntax highlighting for Go
04:45 < houst0n> Anyone done anything 'cool' with it yet?
04:45 < rbancroft> dsal: thanks for the tip
04:46 < mrd`> I need to just bind every key to self-insert-and-gofmt.  :P
04:46 -!- ajray [n=alex@wvc32563rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
04:46 < reppie> is there inline assembly in go?
04:46 < houst0n> Also, anyone got it going on BSD or Solaris yet?
04:46 < houst0n> I'm willing to help out there
04:46 <+iant> reppie: no
04:46 < Ycros> ablegreen: yes, look in the misc dir in the sources
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04:47 < sg> hi
04:47 < offby1> any know of a _super_ simple example of using gotest?
04:47 < reppie> iant that is unfortunate :(
04:47 < NfNitLoop> pandrew: I've been trying to wrap my head around the
issue you've described for a good portion of the day.  If you find any info on Go
devs.  thoughts, I'd like tos ee it.  ;)
04:47 < Ycros> pandrew, NfNitLoop: I don't think Go is designed to support
that sort of thing
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04:48 < NfNitLoop> Ycros: yeah, that's what I was starting to think.
04:48 < NfNitLoop> More like C than C++.  :p
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04:48 < NfNitLoop> (But more like Java than C...!?) ;)
04:49 < trasktrojanek> How do I uninstall Go for the time being?
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04:49 < sg> how do i write a polymorphic function?
04:49 < jeffry> What is a 'correct' way to skip/ignore return values from
functions with multiple return values (e.g.  http.Get's finalURL ...  how do I
'hide' it in my caller code?)
04:49 < sg> if supported
04:49 <+iant> trasktrojanek: just remove $GOROOT and remove the files from
04:49 < Ycros> NfNitLoop: well, it's a different kind of object system, very
04:49 < trasktrojanek> iant, that's what I figured, thanks.
04:49 < gointrigue> Only thing that made me sad about Go
04:49 <+iant> jeffry: assign to the blank identifier "_"
04:49 < gointrigue> "Go has pointers but not pointer arithmetic.  You cannot
use a pointer variable to walk through the bytes of a string.  "
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04:50 < jeffry> iant: ty
04:50 < Ycros> jeffry: use _
04:50 < NfNitLoop> sg: Make an interface with that function in it.  Write
two objects with that interface.  You can then pass them around as that interface
type, but the correct method gets called.
04:50 < Ycros> gointrigue: nothing wrong with that :P
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04:50 < sg> NfNitLoop uhm convoluted, but thanks :)
04:50 < Ycros> gointrigue: the compiler optimises normal iteration for all
that stuff
04:50 < kuroneko> iant: getting headaches with libgo
04:50 < gointrigue> Still....  for devious deeds like memory editing that
seems like a bit of a downside
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04:51 <+iant> gointrigue: you can do devious deeds if you import the unsafe
04:51 < NfNitLoop> sg: the upshot is you don't have class hierarchies.  like
Ycros said, it's much more lightweight.
04:51 <+iant> http://golang.org/pkg/unsafe
04:51 <+iant> kuroneko: what is happening?
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04:52 < sg> i don't like classes and such anyway
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04:53 < kuroneko> iant: issues with ptrace related stuff
04:53 < kuroneko> which kernel were you building against?
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04:53 < droid0011> iant: they removed asm/user.h and linux/user.h from
userspace http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg225379.html
04:53 <+iant> kuroneko: mostly 2.6.24
04:53 < kuroneko> right
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04:53 <+iant> droid0011: OK
04:53 < kuroneko> I'm using 2.6.31
04:53 < kuroneko> ptraceregs.Rip is gone
04:53 < kuroneko> now .Ip
04:53 <+iant> oy
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04:54 < kuroneko> actually, no - Rip is return IP isn't it?
04:54 < kuroneko> not actual IP?
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04:54 * kuroneko ponders
04:54 <+iant> that should probably be adjusted in the sed script, that seems
simpler than compiling multiple versions of the Go code which uses it
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04:55 < kuroneko> also you have to play fun and games to get to the header
04:55 < kuroneko> make prepare no longer links arch/.../include/asm to
04:55 < dsal> OK, I'm really quite confused about how to read data...
04:55 <+iant> kuroneko: it must be available somewhere
04:55 < dsal> cannot use hdrBytes (type [24]uint8) as type []uint8
04:55 <+iant> dsal: use *[24]uint8
04:55 <+iant> a pointer to an array can convert to a slice
04:55 < dsal> Ah, thanks.
04:56 < ablegreen> can someone tell me what the point of goroutines are?
04:56 < dsal> How do I write a conversion?
04:56 <+iant> ablegreen: take advatnage of multicore
04:56 <+iant> dsal: TYPE(VALUE)
04:56 < dsal> I want []byte -> my struct.
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04:56 <+iant> oh, that won't convert directly, sorry
04:56 <+iant> you'll just have to convert it manually
04:56 < dsal> Can I note write a conversion to do that?
04:56 < dsal> er, not...
04:56 <+iant> if you are serializing structs into bytes, you might want to
look at the pkg/gob code
04:58 < dsal> I actually have a very specific serialization I'm working on.
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04:58 < tar_> iant: is multi-core supported now?
04:58 <+iant> you'll just have to write a function which pulls bytes from
the array and puts them into fields
04:58 <+iant> tar_: yes, by relying on underlying OS threads
04:58 < ablegreen> so with goroutines, i can have multiple routines, each
running undera different thread?
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04:58 < dsal> iant: Is there a way to do that using conversion syntax?
04:59 <+iant> dsal: no
04:59 <+iant> sorry
04:59 < tar_> iant: via go, or some library?
04:59 <+iant> ablegreen: yes
04:59 < dsal> OK, just kind of felt like that might be there.  Thanks.
04:59 <+iant> tar_: this is built in to Go
04:59 < tar_> I mean the "go" keyword
04:59 <+iant> yes, via the go keyword
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05:00 < KirkMcDonald> Huh.  I got the compiler to segfault.
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05:00 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: please report an issue with a test case
05:01 <+iant> I haven't seen it segfault in a while
05:01 < KirkMcDonald> Let me try and narrow it down.
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05:02 < KirkMcDonald> Let me try and narrow it down.
05:02 < KirkMcDonald> Ack
05:02 < KirkMcDonald> Wrong window.
05:03 < sg> i have some C code with a struct which has a tagged union inside
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05:03 < sg> how do i do unions in go?
05:03 < droid0011> iant: there is similar sys/user.h but it's not enought, I
get still some udefined structures.  How can I add some -I paths to the build
05:03 <+iant> sg: currently there are no unions, sorry
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05:03 < sg> iant maybe there is other language feature i can use to express
something similar?
05:03 < chrome> iant: my attempt at a telnet talker, with comments.  Would
you mind taking a look, and tell me where I can improve it to be more idiomatic
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05:03 < kuroneko> droid0011: I've hacked in some fixes.  I'll roll them
upstream in a bit.
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05:03 < kuroneko> well
05:04 < kuroneko> to iant to review
05:04 <+iant> droid0011: this is just mksysinfo.sh, you can just add header
at the top of that script
05:04 <+iant> chrome: I can try to take a look, sure
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05:04 < kuroneko> iant: it should probably honour CFLAGS from the
environment - which was my fix
05:04 < chrome> iant:
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05:04 <+iant> sg: not as such; of course you can keep a couple of pointers
to different structs, or something like that
05:04 < dsal> Is there a way to kind of dump some other module's namespace
into mine?  I've got a constants lib and am having to type too much?
05:05 < sg> mmmm, that might work, didn't thought of it
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05:05 <+iant> dsal: you mean like import?
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05:05 < dsal> iant: I import some_module_name and I don't want to say
some_module_name.Type all the time.
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05:06 <+iant> dsal: you can say import a "some_module" and then say a.Type,
or you can say import . "some_module" and the types are imported into the package
05:06 < kuroneko> aha!
05:06 < kuroneko> success!
05:06 < droid0011> iant: the included headers includes another headers, I
need somehow to add an -I path
05:06 <+iant> that is, you can control the name you use to refer to the
names of the imported package
05:06 <+iant> kuroneko: cool
05:06 < dsal> iant: Ah, great.  Thanks.
05:06 < kuroneko> about to do a make check
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05:07 <+iant> kuroneko: I recommend just make check-target-libgo and (cd
gcc; make check-go)
05:07 <+iant> a full make-check will run all the compiler testsuite
05:07 <+iant> droid0011: you can add a -I option to the use of ${CC} in
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05:08 < timmcd> Hey, quick question: What is the procedure to port a C/C++
Library to be used with Go? ie, Ncurses?
05:09 <+iant> timmcd: do you mean to rewrite it in Go? Or do you mean to
call the C/C++ library directly from Go?
05:09 < kuroneko> libgo is good so far
05:09 < KirkMcDonald> Hmm.  Not certain how to narrow down this segfault.
05:09 < chrome> timmcd: see misc/gmp
05:09 < KirkMcDonald> iant: So I have a function which returns a
05:10 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Only I just had Value (without the package name)
by accident.
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05:10 < KirkMcDonald> iant: If I fix it, the segfault goes away.
05:10 < KirkMcDonald> iant: I can't seem to replicate this in a smaller
05:10 < chrome> timmcd: er misc/cgo/gmp
05:10 -!- stewarj [n=stewarj@24-196-228-105.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined
05:10 <+iant> that's OK--attach the whole thing to the issue if you can't
make it smaller
05:11 < timmcd> chrome: What is this?
05:11 <+iant> we won't mind, segfaults are usually easy to debug as long as
we can recreate them
05:11 < chrome> timmcd: an example of a c library wrapped in go.
05:12 < kuroneko> libgo passed!
05:12 < timmcd> What's libgo?
05:12 < rbancroft> is there a reason why you can't specify methods for
non-local types?
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05:12 < rbancroft> technical?  or is it a design choice
05:13 <+iant> chrome: I don't think I would return a string from readline, I
think I would return []byte
05:13 <+iant> chrome: but basically your code looks good to me
05:13 <+iant> chrome: especially if it works
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05:13 <+iant> kuroneko: cool
05:13 <+iant> timmcd: libgo is the name of the Go library in gccgo
05:13 < chrome> iant: oh, it works.  With the noted TODO :) doesn't exactly
clean up after itself atm.
05:14 <+iant> rbancroft: design choice; we didn't want types to be different
in different packages
05:14 < kuroneko> go.test/test/env.go failed
05:14 < ablegreen> has anyone written a web app with go?  even though there
aren't any database wrappers yet
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05:14 <+iant> kuroneko: that just means that you don't have GOARCH set in
the environment
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05:14 <+iant> kuroneko: that test is reliable for 6g/8g, but gccgo doesn't
use GOARCH so it's easy to forget to set it before running the testsuite
05:14 < kuroneko> heh :)
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05:15 < kuroneko> right, that was the only failure.
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05:15 <+iant> cool, a successful gccgo build
05:15 < kuroneko> I'll have to diff out my hacks
05:15 <+iant> glad to hear it
05:15 <+iant> thx
05:15 < dsal> Neat, I got a segfault.
05:16 < kuroneko> in part, I wish I was using git.
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05:16 < kuroneko> then I remember how goddamned big the gcc svn repo is
05:16 < kuroneko> then I'm glad I'm not.  :)
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05:16 <+iant> kuroneko: some day we will move gcc to git, despite the size,
but probably not today
05:17 < kuroneko> well, it's more that using git-svn to pull an svn repo
into git hurts
05:17 <+iant> yeah
05:17 < kuroneko> and given that gcc is some 120k revisions now?
05:17 < kuroneko> I'd be here all month waiting.
05:17 <+iant> 150K, actually
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05:18 < droid0011> there is http://git.infradead.org/gcc.git but not the
gccgo branch :(
05:19 < asonge> it can take a lot of time to get projects the size of gcc
moved between versioning systems
05:19 < asonge> specifically when you've got a lot of hooks
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05:20 < dsal> Ugh, I have a build mess.  My simple Makefile fails horribly
on a clean build due to dependency junk.  Are there any small-project
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05:20 < dsal> I guess a standard .go.6 is not right?
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05:21 < chrome> dsal: http://pastie.org/694903 <-- works for me
05:21 < chrome> put .go files in src, make a obj dir
05:21 < asonge> dsal: i just copied the Makefile from src/cmd/godoc/Makefile
and made changes
05:21 < kuroneko> iant: email address for review?
05:21 < droid0011> kuroneko: could you pastebin svn diff?
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05:21 <+iant> kuroneko: e-mail gccgo patches to ian@google.com, cc
05:21 < offby1> any hints for a mercurial problem: hg pull -u => abort:
error: _ssl.c:480: error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown
05:22 < offby1> this is in a repository that I got yesterday.
05:22 < kuroneko> it's not a patch for direct inclusion - but it'll tell you
what needs fixing.  :)
05:22 <+iant> note that cc to gcc-patches will get archived on the web
05:22 <+iant> kuroneko: sure
05:22 <+iant> you can omit gcc-patches in that case, I suppose
05:22 <+iant> either way is fine
05:22 < kuroneko> I fix the struct name problems in libgo by changing the
names, not in mksysinfo - the sed line made my head hurt.  :)
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05:23 < kuroneko> I'm sure you want a more elegant way of fixing that
05:23 < dsal> chrome: That's fine for one object.  I've got three and if
they don't compile in the correct order, bad things happen.
05:23 < offby1> gaah, sorry: stupid proxy interfering.  never mind
05:23 < gointrigue> What the shit >.<
05:23 <+iant> yeah, that sed line is pretty bad
05:23 < gointrigue> 8g: command not found
05:23 < gointrigue> I just used it not that long ago!
05:24 < chrome> dsal: list them in the objects line
05:24 < ArekZB> check your PATH
05:24 < chrome> in order
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05:24 < gointrigue> how come I keep having to set my path
05:24 < dsal> chrome: Yeah, I am listing the objects, but I'm not listing
them in the correct order.  Bad things happen.
05:24 < dsal> If I list them in the right order, good things happen.
05:24 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Ah! I managed to devise a simpler test-case.
05:24 < gointrigue> shouldn't it damn persist?
05:25 < chrome> dsal: make clean all :P
05:25 < chrome> but yeah I havn't tried a multiple file project yet
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05:25 < ArekZB> did you put the export PATH in a .profile or .bashrc file
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05:25 < dsal> chrome: Yeah, clean == break build unless the objects are in
the right order.  I've just rearranged the objects.
05:26 < chrome> why should it matter what order they are in
05:26 < chrome> weird
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05:26 < dsal> chrome: Before you can import a module from another source
file, that module has to have been compiled.
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05:27 < rbancroft> gointrigue: no, they don't persist, usually
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05:27 < dsal> OK, I'm confused.  Does this actually create a 24 byte buffer?
var thing *[24]byte;
05:28 -!- kc644 [n=keith@Sensitivity.CS.UCLA.EDU] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
05:28 < dsal> Because stuff blows up if I try to use it.
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05:28 <+iant> dsal: No, that creates a nil pointer to a 24 byte buffer
05:28 <+iant> this creates a 24 byte buffer: "var thing [24]byte"
05:28 <+iant> you can convert to a slice by doing &thing
05:29 < KirkMcDonald> iant: Posted as issue 80:
05:29 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: thx
05:30 < kuroneko> droid0011: http://www.pastebin.ca/1667635
05:30 < droid0011> ty
05:30 < dsal> iant: OK, I'm stumbling a bit here.  I need the pointer to
hand to Read, but it's not clear to me how to make it point to something real.
05:31 <+iant> easiest is make([]byte, 24)
05:31 <+iant> or you can do "var buf [24]byte" and pass "&buf" to Read
05:31 < Jerub> my brain parses [24]byte as a pattern matching 2byte and
4byte.  must fix that.
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05:31 < ArekZB> is the a performance hit on using make() versus var
thing[]byte ?
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05:32 < xor> Hi there.
05:32 <+iant> ArekZB: not really; taking the address of thing will make the
compiler move it to the heap anyhow
05:33 < ajray> is anyone working on git tools for go?
05:33 < dsal> iant: passing &buf doesn't compile.  Nor does make: cannot use
make([]uint8, 24) (type []uint8) as type *[24]uint8 :/
05:33 < xor> Where can I find tools to help develop with go?  I mean, is
there an Eclipse plugin, emacs plugin, something?
05:33 < ajray> xor: check the misc dir
05:33 < ajray> in $GOROOT
05:33 <+iant> dsal: read doesn't take *[24]uint8, it takes []uint8, doesn't
05:33 < dsal> Correct.
05:34 < xor> ajray: Thanks, will do.
05:34 <+iant> dsal: so where does *[24]uint8 come from in the above
05:34 < ajray> xor: i thats vim/emacs
05:34 < dsal> var hdrBytes *[24]byte = make([]byte, 24);
05:34 < ajray> i dont know about eclipse, but i'd love an eclipse plugin
05:34 < chrome> dsal: you can just do hdrBytes := make ([]byte, 24);
05:34 <+iant> dsal: ah, no, it has to var hdrBytes []byte = make([]byte, 24)
05:34 < ajray> xor: i'm also playing with the idea of making a cscope-like
goscope for code-diving in go
05:35 <+iant> or just hdrBytes := make([]byte, 24)
05:35 < ArekZB> xor: i don't think there is an eclipse plugin yet . as far
as indentation and highlighting, i'm using the c/c++ file association
05:35 < chrome> iant: beat you :P
05:35 < ArekZB> works really wel
05:35 <+iant> indeed
05:35 < xor> ArekZB: I didn't think of that.  =)
05:35 < xor> ArekZB: Thanks for the suggestion.
05:35 < ArekZB> c/c++ :)
05:35 < Rob_Russell> weird that for a:=0, b:=10 ; a < b ; a++ {} is
invalid but can be rephrased as for a, b := 0, 10 ; a < b ; a++ {}
05:36 < chrome> iant: you just need to get to the critical mass of people
who know enough of the syntax and libs then you can go lurk ;)
05:36 < dsal> iant: yeah, that one works, but it segfaults when I try to
read into it.  :/
05:36 <+iant> chrome: ha, indeed
05:36 < ajray> a couple of us at my university are getting together this
weekend for a go hackfest, and hope to push out some tools in there
05:36 <+iant> ajray: cool
05:36 <+iant> dsal: not sure, must be something else, I guess
05:37 < houst0n> I hope this lang gets renamed soon, go is a stupid name
(and it's stolen, too)
05:37 < ajray> iant: go is what's cool.  now time for me to make myself
useful :-)
05:37 < chrome> go and go!  can coexist
05:37 -!- necromancer [n=necroman@c-69-142-78-178.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined
05:37 < houst0n> Yeah, but it doesn't take away from that it's a a stupid
05:37 < houst0n> ;)
05:37 < chrome> houst0n: obviously some people liked it for it to be named
05:38 < houst0n> Seemingly
05:38 < chrome> houst0n: and when you write your own language, you get to
call it whatever you like.  It's one of the perks of being awesome.
05:38 -!- aaront [n=aaront@unaffiliated/aaront] has quit ["And that's all he
05:38 < Innominate> Show me some way to actually run Go! code without a
05:39 < Innominate> then the guy might have a claim to the name
05:39 < xal> does anyone have an example make file that runs gotest unit
05:39 < xal> i can't get it to work
05:39 < dsal> iant: This is my code… just trying to read 24 bytes from a
connected socket.  Bad things happening.  :( http://pastebin.com/d20e575ba
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05:39 <+iant> xal: there are various examples in the library
05:40 < dsal> Oh wait… I think it may have actually worked.  *sigh*
05:40 * dsal thanks the cardboard programmer
05:40 < chrome> dsal: I do some network stuff in my talker, here, which
works: http://www.stupendous.net/archives/2009/11/12/google-go/
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05:41 < dsal> Yeah, sorry for the confusion.  It's working fine.  I just
moved my segfault down slightly.
05:41 < chrome> dsal: though, iant mentioned that readline() was a bit
05:41 < chrome> (not his words)
05:41 <+iant> dsal: ah, OK
05:42 <+iant> dsal: code will crash in grokHeader because rv will be nil
05:43 < kmc> If Go is trying to appeal to users of languages like Python and
Ruby, why didn't it launch with a REPL?
05:43 < dsal> iant: Yep, I figured that out by actually looking at the stack
trace instead of assuming it was always the same one.  :)
05:43 < xal> has anyone got a start on memcached bindings?
05:43 <+iant> kmc: because it compiles to machine code; there is an
experimental interpreter, I don't know how well it works
05:43 < kmc> iant, you can write a REPL for a native compiler
05:43 <+iant> kmc: sure, it's just harder, and didn't seem like a priority
for Go
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05:44 < chrome> oh man, I have gotten no real work done today
05:44 -!- andresambrois [n=aa@r190-135-146-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has
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05:44 < chrome> iant: damn you guys for not releasing on a weekend
05:45 -!- aa__ [n=aa@r190-135-146-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined
05:45 < chrome> iant: next programming language you develop, please put it
out on a saturday morning
05:45 <+iant> chrome: we'll do better next time.  maybe.
05:45 < chrome> :D
05:45 < devewm> chrome: i'd say the same except that Go was released on my
birthday, so i'm not complaining :)
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05:45 < chrome> "ooh, new shiny", basically sums up my response
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05:46 < ArekZB> ha, shiny indeed
05:47 < kmc> is the type inference in Go described anywhere?
05:48 <+iant> kmc: Go doesn't really have type inference as I use the term
05:48 < KirkMcDonald> kmc: What's to describe?
05:48 < kmc> well, you can declare a variable without giving a type
05:48 < NfNitLoop> it's described in the TechTalk on youtube, and in the
tutorial, and in the other docs...
05:49 < KirkMcDonald> kmc: Only if you also provide it with an initializer.
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05:49 < darius_in_time> hello?
05:49 < kmc> how is the type of an initializer determined?
05:49 < gointrigue> Oh christ on a stick >.<
05:49 < gointrigue> ircbot.go:4: fatal error: can't find import: fmt
05:50 < ArekZB> lol
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05:50 < dsal> gointrigue: That'll happen if your env vars aren't set up
05:50 -!- red1 [n=red1@] has quit []
05:50 < gointrigue> they arrreeee
05:50 * gointrigue cries.
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05:50 <+iant> kmc: the procedure you are after is described in the language
05:51 <+iant> basically you walk down setting the types of constants, and
then walk up setting the types of variables
05:51 <+robpike> gointrigue: are the vars exported?
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05:51 < kmc> iant, which section is that?  i haven't seen it yet though i
haven't read the entire spec
05:51 <+robpike> gointrigue: "fmt" will be in go/pkg/$GOOS_$GOARCH/fmt.a
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05:52 <+robpike> gointrigue: where by "go" i mean $GOROOT
05:52 < kmc> it seems to me that REPL and syntactically implicit types are
two features people associate with "interpreted language" that needn't be.  so
it's good to have them in a language like Go that tries to compete with those
05:52 < ArekZB> gointrigue: heres a snippet from my .profile file for env
variables http://pastebin.com/m36220dfa
05:52 <+iant> kmc: "Variable Declarations"
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05:53 < kmc> thanks
05:53 < gointrigue> linux:~$ echo $GOARCH
05:53 < gointrigue> returns 386
05:53 < gointrigue> they are all workin'
05:53 < rbancroft> should it be i386?
05:53 < gointrigue> even path
05:53 <+robpike> echo $GOARCH doesn't tell you it's exported
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05:54 <+robpike> gointrigue: try sh -c 'echo $GOARCH'
05:54 <+iant> rbancroft: no, 386 is correct
05:54 < rbancroft> iant: oops!  yeah
05:54 <+robpike> gointrigue: did you see if the fmt.a package exists in the
right place?  if it does, then your environment isn't set up and exported
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05:54 < gointrigue> that returns 386
05:56 <+robpike> gointrigue: do the same for GOOS and GOROOT
05:56 < gointrigue> both are returning correct variable
05:56 < chrome> lol, guy on digg posts "This is worthless.  It doesn't have
the best parts of Java: Generics, hierarchies, object casting, making it useless
for OOP.  Ok, so what about structured?  Oops, no hardware pointers, you know, the
good part of C."
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05:56 < gointrigue> and now it compiles
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05:56 < gointrigue> my linux is twackering with my head
05:57 <+robpike> gointrigue: ls -l $GOROOT/pkg/$GOOS_GOARCH/fmt.a
05:57 < chrome> go is worthless because it isn't java or C!
05:57 < chrome> haha :D
05:57 < tetha> chrome: ahaha, generics a 'best part'.  oh my.
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05:58 < kmc> object casting is the best part of java?
05:59 < Jerub> kmc: uh, the lack of object casting brought in by generics
and auto-boxing i think he means.
05:59 < chrome> from what I can see, go doesn't *need* generics; it does
essentially the same thing with interfaces, but without the clumsy syntax.
05:59 < itrekkie> hi everyone, can someone clue me in on the -I flag for
6g?  I'm trying to use a makefile to build .6 files (objects?) in a directory
sitting next to a src directory, but I cannot fix this "cannot find import"
problem.  Are there some docs I'm missing; does anyone have a Makefile or similar
solution they'd be willing to share?
06:00 <+robpike> chrome: not quite.  the unboxing is annoying and it's not
trivial to create a type-safe container.  there are subtler advantages of generics
too.  but they are tricky to get right
06:00 < KirkMcDonald> itrekkie: .6 files are both object files and header
06:00 < tetha> chrome: I'd argue that no one needs that akward hack generics
are ;)
06:00 < KirkMcDonald> itrekkie: You use -I to point the compiler at the .6
files required by the package you are compiling.
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06:01 < kmc> chrome, with generics you could write "map" without the
unnecessary runtime cast
06:01 < KirkMcDonald> itrekkie: Or, rather, to point the compiler at the
directories in which the .6 files are contained.
06:01 < Speciak> anyone want to give a beginner a quick run down on the go
06:01 < wcn> robpike: as an implementer, what are some of the tricky
06:01 < gointrigue> that command is borked
06:01 < itrekkie> KirkMcDonald: and the syntax for the flag is -I dir/,
-Idir/ or does it matter?
06:01 < ment> Speciak: http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html
06:01 < chrome> kmc: coming from C that cast doesn't seem burdensome to me
06:02 < gointrigue> but it compiles now...
06:02 < KirkMcDonald> itrekkie: Both should work.
06:02 <+robpike> itrekkie: there's a subtle issue.  if you don't install the
.a file into the pkg directory, like the makefiles in the existing pkg dirs, then
you probably want to write your imports as ' import "./file" ' so it finds them in
the current directory
06:02 < KirkMcDonald> itrekkie: But it must go first, before any of the .go
06:02 < Speciak> I read the tutorial...  is there any way to program in go
on windows?
06:02 * the_hoser glances up and realizes its midnight.
06:02 < the_hoser> I've been playing with this for four hours :(
06:02 < the_hoser> bed time.
06:02 < chrome> Speciak: install virtualbox and install ubuntu inside it.
06:03 < ment> Speciak: yes, wait for microsoft to release Go# for Visual
06:03 < rbancroft> Speciak: might work with mingw
06:03 < gointrigue> robpike: that command mucked up
06:03 < gointrigue> I had to write it like: ls -l
06:03 < Speciak> ok, thanks guys!  have a good night
06:03 < gointrigue> but it worked
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06:03 < xal> why does gotest simply say
06:03 < xal> make: *** No rule to make target `testpackage-clean'.  Stop.
06:04 < kmc> chrome, the cast is checked
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06:04 < itrekkie> robpike: thanks for that info, does that also stay true of
the .6 files aren't in the same directory as the source .go file that depends on
other compiled code?
06:04 <+iant> xal: gotest is a shell script, and it runs "make
06:04 <+iant> it is expecting the Makefile to look one of the ones under pkg
06:04 < xal> er k
06:04 < dsal> OK, I've moved on to new failures.  What type should I declare
for a dynamically allocated byte slice pointer?
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06:05 <+iant> dsal: you should reslice instead of using a pointer
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06:06 <+iant> dsal: you don't usually need a pointer to a slice, because
slices are passed by reference
06:06 <+iant> dsal: if you do need a pointer to a slice, it is *[]byte
06:06 < itrekkie> Ah, I see.  I removed the I removed the ./ from the import
and it works well now, but I wonder if that's a "bad practice" for my own personal
files, since they're not strictly other libraries?
06:06 < sladegen> heh, #go-nuts was 97 peeps yesterday...  damn those
06:06 < dsal> OK. Basically, my struct contains three []bytes, and I don't
know the size until I compute them.  I figured I'd use Make for that.
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06:07 <+iant> make([]byte, N) returns []byte of size N
06:07 <+iant> note that it doesn't return a pointer, it returns a slice
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06:07 < IntrigueBot> Hi jmacelro
06:07 < jb55> itrekkie: I ended up going this route when building my
packages: http://tinyurl.com/y8arlju works quite well
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06:08 < gointrigue> your bot works namegduf :3
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06:08 < dsal> iant: Oooh.  It just does what I want.  Sorry for the
06:08 < JBeshir> gointrigue: Yeah, I'm sure it could be done much much
06:08 < gointrigue> hah
06:08 < gointrigue> I like
06:08 < JBeshir> Its IRC protocol support is pretty shoddy, it just manages
to 'work'
06:08 < gointrigue> ,3
06:08 < gointrigue> yeah
06:08 < gointrigue> but meh
06:08 < JBeshir> It's not critically wrong, though.
06:08 < itrekkie> jb55: thanks for that!  I think of the hardest things so
far has just been figuring out the way things are or ought to be done
06:09 < gointrigue> bot's don't need to understand damn everything
06:09 < gointrigue> I made an IRC bot in C++
06:09 < gointrigue> did some simple functions
06:09 < JBeshir> It needs NAMES(X) support and user permissions following
06:09 < gointrigue> even was able to pipe console output to it
06:09 < JBeshir> And for that it needs to read ISUPPORT and PREFIX.
06:09 < suraj> Hi, I am new to this.  Is there binary available for windows
to download and try this?
06:09 < JBeshir> I might actually turn it into a package for writing IRC
bots in Go at some point.
06:10 <+iant> suraj: it doesn't run on Windows unless you set up a virtual
machine running GNU/Linux, sorry
06:10 < gointrigue> I could issue linux commands via the bot, and the
console output would write to the channel
06:10 < JBeshir> Neat.
06:10 < JBeshir> Probably only if I get time to put it to practical use,
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06:10 < IntrigueBot> Hi artery
06:10 < gointrigue> I wish I could find my C++ bot code
06:10 < suraj> iant: thanks.
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06:20 < chrome> iant: you need to add a "THERE IS NO WINDOWS PORT YET" to
the front page with a <blink> tag.
06:20 < Ycros> gointrigue: yeah, I wouldn't let people run linux commands
through a bot
06:20 <+iant> chrome: at least it is in the FAQ now
06:21 < chrome> iant: you know they won't read that.  :P
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06:21 <+iant> well, yeah
06:22 < ceh> Good morning folks.
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06:22 < gointrigue> Ycros: I had it locked with various forms of
06:22 < gointrigue> Only I could use the command
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06:22 < gointrigue> however, unforunately, I believe I have permanently lost
my days and days of coding
06:23 < gointrigue> I canot find the CPPs anywhere :(
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06:25 < kmc> how much Go code has been written at Google?
06:26 < ThePhred> So I was messing around with go, and I was working with
the 00dffdsexadfsdfsfdsf ddsfdffor spinning off a long running function as a
06:26 < ThePhred> (sorry, that was weird)
06:26 < NfNitLoop> heh.
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06:27 < NfNitLoop> I think I see your problem!  ;)
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06:27 <+iant> kmc: there have been a few experimental applications
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06:28 < ThePhred> When trying to spin off several long running functions as
goroutines, it seems that the program stays on one cpu core even though it is
using multiple threads
06:28 < ThePhred> so it tacks one cpu core and the rest just sits around
06:28 <+iant> ThePhred: try setting GOMAXPROCS in the environment, e.g.,
06:28 < ThePhred> What am I missing here
06:28 < NfNitLoop> ThePhred: If you're using the 6g compiler, it uses
"segmented stacks" and keeps them all on the same thread.
06:28 < NfNitLoop> oh.  and that.
06:29 < ThePhred> ah ha!
06:29 < ThePhred> Very very useful info
06:29 < ThePhred> thank you very much
06:29 < AndrewBC> Has anyone hooked up Go with Curses functionality, out of
06:29 < chrome> AndrewBC: you just volunteered to wrap the ncurses library!
06:29 < chrome> AndrewBC: You are my hero.
06:29 < AndrewBC> I probably wouldn't mind.  Just didn't want to reinvent
and all that.  :)
06:30 < chrome> AndrewBC: there's been a few people asking about it but its
a lot of work.
06:30 < AndrewBC> Hm. Well it would be a good means to many ends.
06:30 < AndrewBC> Including some of my own
06:30 < AndrewBC> So we'll see.
06:30 < ThePhred> Does channels across processes?
06:30 < chrome> AndrewBC: maybe a script to generate much of the code, would
06:31 < chrome> ThePhred: do they cross processors?  Or separate processes?
06:31 < AndrewBC> Ah, from another language already wrapping the API to Go?
That's an idea.