--- Log opened Thu Dec 24 00:00:36 2009
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00:47 < bakkdoor> is there some kind of parser generation kit for go yet?
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01:48 < goplexian> is #go-nuts logged?
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01:53 < jessta> goplexian: there are logs here,
http://go-lang.cat-v.org/irc-logs/
01:54 < goplexian> thx jessta :)
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02:02 < goplexian> I understand the rest, I'm a little puzzled just by what
the [0] is doing in this statement, anyone care to explain?
02:02 < goplexian> [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[0:1][0][0:1]
02:03 < goplexian> [0:1] selects the first slice, then [0], and then [0:1]
selects the first element of the first slice
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02:11 < jessta> goplexian: I don't think the [0:1] are doing anything
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02:14 < goplexian> @eval [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[1:][0][0:1]
02:14 < rndbot> [3]
02:15 < goplexian> [1:] selects second slice, then [0] for some strange
reason, then [0:1] selects first item of second slice
02:15 < goplexian> the [0] bugs me, maybe drhodes knows but I think he is
idle
02:15 < jessta> @eval [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[1:][0][0:1]
02:15 < rndbot> [3]
02:15 < jessta> @eval [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[1][0][0:1]
02:15 < rndbot> <Error: cannot slice (((node ARRAYLIT))[1])[0] (type
int)>
02:16 < jessta> @eval [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[1][0:1]
02:16 < rndbot> [3]
02:16 < goplexian> we should take this to #go-run not to annoy anyone
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02:17 < jessta> the [1:] is the same as [1] for a 2 item array
02:18 < goplexian> yes, i see, that helps, i can throw away the [0] now
02:20 < goplexian> seems strange though
02:20 < goplexian> I would have thought these two would be the same
02:20 < goplexian> @eval [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[1:][1:]
02:20 < rndbot> []
02:20 < goplexian> @eval [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[1][1:]
02:20 < rndbot> [4]
02:21 < goplexian> @eval [2][2]int{[2]int{1,2}, [2]int{3,4}}[1][1]
02:21 < rndbot> 4
02:22 * goplexian boggles.
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02:25 < jessta> ah, good point, [1:] is a slice, [1] is an int
02:26 < goplexian> so thats whats going on, hmm
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02:37 < exitstate> file.Readdir is similar to 'ls' yes?
02:38 < Gracenotes> what's the best route for parsing config files?
02:39 < Gracenotes> I suppose it's not so hard to scan line by line,
ignoring those without ='s reading until #s, and parsing manually, but...  trivial
batteries included, maybe?
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02:57 < goplexian> I wish there was function overloading
02:58 * goplexian sniffles a little.
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03:06 < Ycros> goplexian: aye.  But then you have interfaces
03:07 < Gracenotes> function overloading, that evil hack?  :/
03:07 < goplexian> maybe I just dont know how to do what I want to do
03:07 < Gracenotes> function overloading is trivial, but annoying, to
translate into non-overloaded names.  So it doesn't provide you too much
abstraction.
03:08 < Gracenotes> annoying if you make your compiler do it, mainly
03:08 < Ycros> goplexian: what do you want to do?
03:08 < Gracenotes> so you want to dispatch somehow, right?  I'm sure Go can
help..  perhaps.
03:08 < goplexian> I'm writing a little library wrapper type thing and I
want the user to be able to call structthing.addfoo(blah, blah) but also
structthing.addfoo(blah, blah, blah)
03:09 < Ycros> goplexian: yeah
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03:09 < Ycros> goplexian: well, you could accept nil for the last argument,
or you could use var args
03:10 < goplexian> computer explain var args
03:10 < dho> go supports varargs.
03:11 < dho> see eg.  template/template.go
03:11 < dho> or log/log.go
03:11 < dho> in src/pkg
03:13 < goplexian> am I looking for `= itoa` ?
03:16 < goplexian> dho, I'm not sure what you mean by varargs, do you mean
looking up a variable with reflect?
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03:38 < exitstate> hmm
03:38 < Gracenotes> rndbot should be more privy to private messages now
03:39 < exitstate> On my other machine, i have an issue building go, I get
cat /tmp/gotest1-....-user: No such file or directory, when it gets to testing on
a few hundred files
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04:01 < kevinwatt> How to know the key is exist in a maps or not?
04:05 < jessta> kevinwatt: item,ok := somemap[key]
04:05 < jessta> and then check that ok is true
04:07 < kevinwatt> jessta: understand, thx.  :)
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04:39 < exitstate> ugh, can't build go with grsec
04:39 < exitstate> fun
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05:12 < Ycros> exitstate: ouch
05:12 < anticw> exitstate: what error(s) do you get?
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05:17 < defectiv> does go have an associative array concept?
05:17 < Ycros> defectiv: yes, it has maps - they are built-in.
05:17 < defectiv> oh, that's what a map is..
05:18 < defectiv> can arrays/maps have mixed types?
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05:18 < jessta> defectiv: nope
05:19 < Ycros> unless you store an interface{} and use type checks to get
values out
05:19 < jessta> but you can declare them as an interface type, and put
things in there that have that interface
05:19 < SoniaKiss> oh my, look at all the people (my first time here)
05:21 < kfx> thanks for letting us know
05:24 < defectiv> what's wrong with this?  var win_lose =
map[map]{"frontrunner": map[int]{"win": 0, "lose":0}, "nonfrontrunner":
map[int]{"win": 0, "lose": 0}}
05:27 < defectiv> oh i think i see
05:27 < exitstate> found a weird build bug
05:27 < exitstate> if I run ./all.bash with grsec kernel, it fails on the
test folder.
05:28 < exitstate> saying cat: /tmp/gotest1-3213-xorl: No such file or
directory on every file in the dir
05:28 < defectiv> is google actually using go to run mainstream products
yet?
05:28 < exitstate> but if I run ./run in the test dir on its own, it works
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05:30 < SoniaKiss> ./all.bash doesn't quite give me a clean test result, but
the build seems to work ok
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05:30 < exitstate> SoniaKiss: do you get the cat tmp errors?
05:31 < skelterjohn> ./all.bash very rarely completes successfully, for me,
but has always worked with what i did
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05:32 < SoniaKiss> no, i get a fail: ken/chan.go
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05:33 < SoniaKiss> and yes sj, it's working pretty well.  i'm having a
problem with the gob package though
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05:33 < exitstate> builds for me, just doesn't finish the test
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05:35 < Soak> how install a library please?
05:35 < Soak> like http://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL
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05:42 < skelterjohn> Soak: "make install"
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13:06 < ekidd> Is there an efficient way to recompile Go after making tiny
changes?  "make all" always does a full build from scratch for me.
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14:29 < dagle> On the first day of christmas google gave to me, a lang that
could be compiled but looked nicer then C.
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14:55 < dho> On the day before the first day of christmas the rats outside
of my house gave to me
14:55 < dho> two chewed through spark plug wires
14:56 < dho> one chewed through encasing
14:56 < dho> that partridge must be eluding me somewhere.
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15:04 < dagle> dho: They didn't make you food like in the movie?  :(
15:04 < dho> no, they ate my car
15:04 < dho> my new 2010 ford fusion
15:05 < dho> like, just-bought-two-weeks-ago-and-only-have-800-miles-on-it
new
15:05 < dagle> :(
15:05 < dagle> That sucks.
15:05 < dho> yep, and insurance is closed tomorrow through the weekend
15:05 < dho> so if it doesn't get taken care of today i'm fucked
15:06 < kfx> dho: stop smearing peanut butter on important engine components
15:07 < dho> kfx: the only thing i can think of is that it was warm near the
engine block.
15:07 < dho> there's snow and ice all over
15:07 < kfx> yeah that happens
15:08 < kfx> go to a pet store, get some 'bitters' of the sort used to keep
rabbits from eating furniture
15:08 < kfx> apply to the cabling and hoses when you park for the night
15:08 < kfx> it'll hold you out until you can pay someone to come in and
rain death down upon the enemy
15:09 * dho feels like the city should do that :(
15:09 < kfx> probably
15:10 < dho> i'm gonna have to tell the neighbors to watch out too.
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15:10 < dho> sigh.
15:10 < jimdagem> you had animals nest in your car?
15:11 < dho> at least i decided to spend the extra $8 a month for the $100
deductible plan
15:11 < dho> when your premium is >200 a month, $8 extra doesn't matter
that much anyway
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16:35 < fynn> Quick question: I know Go has support for automatic garbage
collection.  can I turn that off and manage memory myself, the way I did in C?
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17:04 < anticw> fynn: no
17:07 < fynn> anticw: hm, that's a problem for me, but thanks.
17:07 < fynn> are there plans to add support for that at any future time?
17:07 < fynn> (kind of hard to use Go as a "systems language" if I can't
control memory)
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17:11 < anticw> i dont think it would work that same way you do things in C
17:11 < anticw> as to whether this prevents it being a systems language,
time will tell
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17:13 < exDM69> I'm sure you can call malloc yourself
17:13 < exDM69> but that wouldn't really make any sense in most cases
17:14 < exDM69> in other cases, it might.  for example if you need "page
locked" memory for DMA transfer or something similar
17:14 < exDM69> memory mapping, etc
17:17 < anticw> special allocations and page pinning aren't entirely the
same as doing alloc/free explicitly
17:18 < anticw> both of those make sense and it's been suggested the runtime
(or something) support such cases
17:18 < anticw> do all memory management yourself though would likely mean
subverting some aspects of the type system...  which certainly you can do, but
it's hard to see why you would do this as the norm
17:19 < exDM69> no, not exactly the same but from a go programmer's view
calling malloc/free is similar to calling mmap/munmap
17:19 < dho> i believe someone's working on mmap support.
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17:20 < anticw> dho: i thought about that, for both array backing store and
also zero-or-touch for large objects ...  got a reference?
17:20 < dho> seem to recall it on the ml or maybe from talking with russ
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17:21 < anticw> i have code here that uses unsafe.Pointer for some 'hacks'
to deal with large int arrays, but even so those are pretty contained
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17:30 < anticw> dho: ok, it looks to work if you dod the syscall directly
and then futz with unsafe.Pointer ...  that's really not that bad
17:31 < anticw> dho: you do have to be careful with what you're doing sure,
and lack of finalizers makes tracking when to free a bit ugly, but it's not
greatly worse than C then
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17:32 < dho> I dunno.  There are times when I do wish it had that support.
17:34 < anticw> dho: how would you use it?  i mean, for the most part you
can make a package to do this for you doing just what i did
17:34 < anticw> when finalizers are supported you can use that for the
free/release path
17:35 < dho> Would be cool to have just a native pointer type that you can
do anything with.  The native type system knows what sizes your types are, so you
could just read directly into them
17:35 < dho> it would probably have to go through some sort of interface,
but it would be nice.
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17:38 < anticw> dho: i dont really see how that's work that using some
package that uses reflection + unsafe to allocate for you
17:39 < anticw> s/work/better/
17:39 < anticw> dho: i'm more concerned about that fact ints are used
everywhere so i can't have really large arrays easily
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17:42 < dho> i haven't played with unsafe really, so if that's a possibility
cool.  reflection is slow though, so it almost defeats the purpose in a lot of
cases, i imagine.
17:43 < dho> i don't know what you mean by prevalence of ints meaning you
can't have really large arrays
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17:48 < anticw> dho: over 2^32 elements
17:49 < dho> Oh, I see.
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17:49 < dho> hm, array access is int offset?
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17:50 < anticw> lots of APIs are int as well
17:50 < dho> fail.
17:50 < dho> that seems short-sighted.
17:51 * dho thinks it should be using whatever type carries intptr
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17:51 < anticw> well, int64 sucks on 32-bit platforms ...  and even on
64-bit platforms is bloaty
17:51 < dho> on 32-bit platforms intptr is 32 bits
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18:05 < dho> anticw: and 64-bit platforms are bloaty anyway because they're
64-bits.  that's why you get more ram for them :)
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18:26 < taruti> anticw: nothing is stopping you of specifying the array
element types to be 8/16/32 bits.
18:27 < taruti> anticw: using native word sized ints in most interfaces is
sensible.
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19:15 < KirkMcDonald> Hmm, I haven't used Go in a few weeks.
19:15 < KirkMcDonald> They went and made newlines significant?
19:17 < exDM69> is that a recent change
19:18 < KirkMcDonald> Well, I got a patch from someone for my Go project
which "Updates the source code to match the recent parsing changes
19:18 < KirkMcDonald> (specifically the implicit semicolon on newline)"
19:18 < KirkMcDonald> And I'm just wondering where I can see more about this
change.
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19:23 < drhodes> KirkMcDonald: there's some debate on the mailing list about
it
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19:26 < KirkMcDonald> It appears to interfere with the style I was using for
very long function declarations.
19:27 < KirkMcDonald> For fuctions with long parameter lists and multiple
return types, I was using: func name \n (arg, arg, arg, arg, string) \n (r1 int,
err os.Error)
19:27 < KirkMcDonald> That is, spreading it across three lines.
19:27 < dho> newlines are only significant in a few cases, and that's
because every line gets an implicit semicolon.
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19:30 < KirkMcDonald> Oh, wait, that's not the style I was using.
19:31 < KirkMcDonald> It was: func (r *ReceiverType) \n name(arg, arg, arg,
arg string) \n (ret int, err os.Error)
19:32 < dho> same answer applies
19:32 < dho> func and { must appear on the same line.
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19:32 < KirkMcDonald> Barring line continuations.
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19:33 < dho> well, which effectively makes it the same line :)
19:33 < KirkMcDonald> Yes.  :-)
19:34 < KirkMcDonald> I don't know if I like this.
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19:35 < KirkMcDonald> I was going to ask "but can a semicolon even appear
between 'func' and '{'," but then I realized that a semicolon can appear wherever
a type is required.
19:37 < KirkMcDonald> Still.  I would think that this meaning of a newline
could be limited to contexts in which a semicolon is used.
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19:41 < KirkMcDonald> The proposed change is a lexical change, which seems
like the wrong way to do it.
19:43 < dho> KirkMcDonald: it does simplify the parser quite a bit.
19:43 < KirkMcDonald> I would do something like: Add a 'newline' token to
the lexer.  Change all occurances of ';' in the grammar to be a new production:
Semicolon = ';' | newline.  Ignore newlines in all other contexts.
19:43 < dho> KirkMcDonald: Having done most of my actually in-Go coding
post-change, I must say I rather like it.
19:45 < KirkMcDonald> Mostly I want to capture the relative elegance of how
Python does it.
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19:45 < dho> i'm not fond of how python does it
19:45 < KirkMcDonald> No?
19:46 < dho> no, every scope gets its own tab convention
19:46 < KirkMcDonald> I am not referring to how Python delimits blocks.
19:46 < KirkMcDonald> I am referring to how Python uses newlines as
statement separators.
19:47 < KirkMcDonald> But then ignores newlines in other contexts.
19:48 < KirkMcDonald> It does this by making newlines part of the grammer,
rather than doing some weird lexical hack.
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19:52 < KirkMcDonald> Which isn't to say that these two parts of the grammar
are not related.
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19:52 < KirkMcDonald> (Blocks and statements, I mean.)
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20:47 < anticw> taruti: 32-bits isn't enough
20:47 < anticw> dho: x86-64 isn't that bloaty actually, not nearly as much
as some other 64-bit platforms
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21:16 < timmcd> Does anyone else have issues when trying to build Golua?
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21:24 < dho> timmcd: I haven't actually tried it :)
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21:24 < dho> timmcd: it may not be gofmted with the new stuff.
21:28 < timmcd> dho: So running gofmt on the files should fix it?
21:28 < dho> maybe, that's just a shot in the dark
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21:43 < dho> hm, what happened to plexdev?
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22:01 * dho considers writing a hello world kernel in go
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22:04 < Guest44257> hello dho, I remember you talking about writing down
some porting notes, any news?
22:06 < dho> haven't had time over the holidays
22:06 < dho> it's still on my todo list
22:08 < dho> i'm happy to answer specific questions in the meantime
22:08 < dho> those are probably best addressed via email
22:08 < Guest44257> did you want to port to openbsd?  or is someone working
on that right now?
22:09 < dho> someone was doing it; i made some preliminary code, but I
haven't figured out all the specifics for ELF on openbsd
22:09 < dho> (and haven't had the time)
22:09 < dho> it would probably be easier for me to give someone a patch for
openbsd and direct them.
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22:10 < dho> i'm heading home; probably will have access to email but no irc
for the holiday weekend
22:10 < dho> later!
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23:11 < sfuentes> anyone mind helping me out with my makefile?  :
http://pastie.org/756028
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23:13 < sfuentes> agh.  nm
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23:31 < dacresni> crickets
23:31 < dacresni> any plans to port Go to the PPC?
23:31 < dacresni> mac os or otherwise?
23:33 < sinuhe> dacresni: I seem to remember a mailing list post on the
topic.
23:33 < dacresni> I'll look there thanks
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23:34 < dacresni> hopefully they can say if its trivial on gcc
23:36 < dacresni> sweet, they also seem to suggest Gccgo
23:38 < dacresni> thank you
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 25 00:00:36 2009