--- Log opened Fri Jun 11 00:00:10 2010
00:00 < jesusaurus> uriel, im trying to build on freebsd, is there a
different branch i should be trying to build?
00:01 < jesusaurus> other than release?
00:02 <+iant> According to http://godashboard.appspot.com/ the freebsd
x86_64 port is working
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00:02 < jesusaurus> oh, im using 386
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00:03 <+iant> probably some code needs to move over from the amd64 port or
something
00:04 < uriel> jesusaurus: release should build
00:04 < uriel> ah, iant already answered :)
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01:24 < grncdr> what happens with package level variables in terms of
go-routines?  is there any synchronization between them?
01:25 < KirkMcDonald> No.
01:29 < Ginto8> grncdr: if assignment/read operations are atomic then,
though they don't provide synchronization, you can safely assign and read from
them in a parallel fashion
01:30 < grncdr> that's a pretty big if
01:30 < grncdr> are hash read/writes atomic?
01:31 < Ginto8> well the memory model page and the lang spec probably talk
about which are atomic and which aren't
01:32 < grncdr> ah, hadn't seen the memory model page before
01:32 < uriel> grncdr: use channels
01:32 < grncdr> uriel: I know that's the idiom, but I haven't figured out
how to map this problem to channels yet
01:32 < uriel> then explain the problem, and maybe somebody will help you
01:33 < uriel> in any case, when you have a shared resource, it is usually
best to have a goroutine in charge of it, and have other goroutines talk to it
when they want to interact with the shared resource
01:33 * uriel goes to sleep
01:35 < Ginto8> if you can't think of a method with channels, you may want
to look into runtime.[RW]Mutex
01:36 < Ginto8> though mutexes aren't really idiomatic in most situations
01:53 < grncdr> ok, don't think I need mutexes, but I do need to be able to
check if a channel is full without blocking
01:54 < grncdr> e.g.  a simple fifo
01:54 < Ginto8> oh
01:54 < Ginto8> buffered channel
01:54 < Ginto8> len()
01:54 < Ginto8> there you go
01:54 < Ginto8> for a buffered channel of type T
01:54 < Ginto8> c := make(T,n)
01:54 < Ginto8> where n is the size of the buffer
01:54 < grncdr> yeah, I have that
01:55 < Ginto8> use len()
01:55 < grncdr> perfect
01:55 < Ginto8> if len(c) < cap(c) { c <- data }
02:06 < exch> or '_ = c <- data' <- also performs non-blocking push,
and silently fails when channel is full.  Basically the same deal as Ginto8's if
statement
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02:10 < exch> that _ will be a boolean btw.  so if you need to check whether
the push suceeded, use: if ok := c <- data; ok { ....  }
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06:56 < BrowserUk> Anyone here ever built go under msys/mingw?
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07:04 < wrtp> BrowserUk: nope, 'fraid not.
07:06 < BrowserUk> wrtp:'k.  It appears to be working, but boy is it ever a
convoluted build process.  I've never seen so many processes created and destroyed
in such a short time.
07:07 < wrtp> bit of a contrast with the usual build then...
07:08 < BrowserUk> It's certainly different to what I'm used to.
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07:27 < BrowserUk> I don't suppose <ed> scripts work with <sed>?
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08:05 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cLao5 by [Alex Brainman] in
go/src/pkg/runtime/windows/ -- runtime: free lock handles on Windows
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08:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cLc1D by [Alex Brainman] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/runtime/windows/ -- runtime: switch to OS stack during Windows syscall
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09:58 < wrtp> BrowserUK: no.  the regexps are similar but the language is
quite different
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13:30 < steven_t> hello :)
13:30 < Tonnerre> Hello Mr. typedef
13:30 < steven_t> bwa?
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13:32 < steven_t> i wonder, if there a unix implementation written in Go
yet?
13:35 < steven_t> *is
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13:40 < TenOfTen> updating go and then goprotobuf breaks it.  but running
goprotobuf from may 11 works still.  i wonder if those guys hang around here.
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13:49 < EthanG> steven_t: uriel wanted to make a start in unix command line
tools, but hasn't had much time.  http://repo.cat-v.org/goblin/ A couple of guys
have written some of the tools but there's nothing on the page yet
13:49 < EthanG> I don't think they'll be making a unix as such, though
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13:50 < steven_t> i see.
13:50 < steven_t> is it feasible to write a robust secure kernel in go?
13:50 < steven_t> ie one that could replace linux?
13:50 < EthanG> I may very well have a go at the command line myself
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13:51 < EthanG> kernel...  I know none of the details but I expect there's a
fair chance of it
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14:27 < mpl> iant: I'm pretty sure I have no local modifications in that
tree.  'hg status' should be enough to confirm that, right?
14:27 <+iant> right
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14:28 <+iant> it's the first thing to check, anyhow
14:28 < mpl> ? src/pkg/runtime/cgo2c
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14:28 < mpl> that's all it returns.
14:28 <+iant> OK, so that is not the problem here
14:28 <+iant> (you can delete cgo2c, by the way, it got renamed)
14:29 < mpl> done.
14:31 < mpl> iant: uh, sh -v ./test.bash seems to be running fine...
14:31 < mpl> oh silly me, it's the old build that works.
14:32 <+iant> ok--test.bash is what all.bash runs
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14:42 < mpl> iant: alright, I pulled latest release again.  ./test.bash
gives me a panic after ./hello >>run.out
14:42 < mpl> can you infer anything from that or should I run it through
gdb?
14:46 <+iant> you'll have to run it through gdb
14:47 <+iant> I hope gdb can show something, it may get confused here
14:47 <+iant> it may not be able to dig up the debug info
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14:50 < mpl> it doesn't seem to print much besides the warnings about the
missing debug symbols.
14:51 < mpl> do I have to rebuild everything with -g or only some specific
parts?
14:51 <+iant> try passing -g to the gcc compile lines
14:51 <+iant> nothing else recognizes -g anyhow
14:52 <+iant> biab
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15:32 < mpl> iant: so I've added -g to _CGO_CFLAGS in Make.pkg and after
occurrences of "gcc" in make.bash but I still have no debugging symbols in ./hello
after a full rebuild.  What did I forget?
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15:32 <+iant> well, there wouldn't be debug symbols in ./hello; there would
be some in $GOROOT/pkg/linux_386/stdio.so
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15:33 <+iant> what I don't know is whether gdb can get them from there
15:34 < mpl> right, because hello is compiled with 8g?
15:34 <+iant> yes
15:34 < mpl> ok
15:34 <+iant> the stack dump can find the symbols in 8g compiled code, but
not in gcc code
15:35 <+iant> my hope is that gdb may find the symbols in gcc compiled code
15:36 < mpl> then what do you suggest I do now?
15:36 < mpl> (sorry my brain is fried after today's work day).
15:36 <+iant> what happens when you run the program under gdb now that
you've compiled with -g?
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15:37 < mpl> warning about the symbols not found, then that:
15:37 < mpl> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
15:37 < mpl> 0xb7f657d8 in ??  ()
15:37 < mpl> that's all.
15:37 <+iant> what does "where" print?
15:38 < mpl> bunch of lines like this one
15:38 < mpl> #0 0xb7f657d8 in ??  ()
15:38 < mpl> and twice that location:
15:38 < mpl> #5 0xb80b7260 in _rtld_global () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2
15:38 <+iant> bother
15:40 <+iant> well, let's try this
15:41 <+iant> grab the files $GOROOT/pkg/linux_386/libcgo.so,
$GOROOT/pkg/linux_386/stdio.so, hello and send them to me and rsc
15:41 <+iant> perhaps it will crash on our system
15:41 <+iant> I'm not too optimistic, though
15:42 <+iant> or is there any chance of us doing an ssh to your system?
15:42 <+iant> the debugging here is going to be correlating between the
symbol table and the code, which is painful
15:45 < mpl> iant: sure, I was about to offer that, but I remembered russ
was not so much a fan of that from the time I proposed to do that with some p9p
issues.
15:46 < mpl> iant: just gimme a few mins to finish a few things and prep you
an account.
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16:12 < mpl> iant: did you get the pv message?
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20:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cLUeF by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 3 subdirs of
go/src/cmd/ -- Pad Go symbol table out to page boundary when linking dynamically.
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21:16 < steven_t> hello!
21:17 < steven_t> is it possible to retrieve a handle to a function name
given a string?
21:19 < KirkMcDonald> Perhaps make a map[string]func()
21:19 < steven_t> oh hi KirkMcDonald
21:19 < KirkMcDonald> :-)
21:19 < steven_t> what kind of things are go good for?
21:20 < KirkMcDonald> I have found it good for long-running servers and
clients, which I am pretty sure are also what it was designed for.
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21:21 < steven_t> i heard its dynamic but i cant find any references to this
in the docs
21:21 < KirkMcDonald> Read up on how interfaces work.
21:22 < steven_t> ok.  thanks :)
21:22 < steven_t> i wonder if it would make sense to write a web framework
in go
21:23 < KirkMcDonald> Sure.
21:23 < steven_t> does go have any adbantages over python in that kind of
field?
21:23 < KirkMcDonald> Go can do parallelism.
21:23 < steven_t> isnt it also multitudes faster than cpython?
21:24 < KirkMcDonald> Perhaps.
21:25 < steven_t> ugh.  i probably shouldnt learn go right now.  i just
started diving into the pylons docs
21:26 < steven_t> thats just the trouble with me.  my curioisity is not
proportionate to my available time
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21:28 < steven_t> so far it looks like go is a good candidate to replace c
21:28 < steven_t> in things like, unix utilities, kernels, device drivers,
etc
21:28 < steven_t> actually arent those the 3 primary things that make up an
os?
21:29 < KirkMcDonald> I am not so sure about this.
21:29 < KirkMcDonald> Go has an active runtime.
21:29 < steven_t> oh.
21:29 < KirkMcDonald> A GC and all that.
21:30 < steven_t> much like python?
21:30 < KirkMcDonald> Not quite like Python.
21:30 < steven_t> oh..
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21:31 < steven_t> are there any http daemons written in go yet?
21:32 < steven_t> any production-ready ones?
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21:35 < mpl> steven_t: I don't know what you mean by daemon, but the http
package has everything needed for an http server.
21:35 < mpl> as for production, the golang.org site runs on top of it.
21:39 < steven_t> wow
21:39 < steven_t> so golang.org is run by a go-based web server?
21:39 < steven_t> is it open source?
21:39 < Namegduf> Yes
21:40 < mpl> as I told you it's all in the http package
21:40 < mpl> http://golang.org/pkg/http/
21:40 < steven_t> amazing
21:40 < Ina> mpl, a daemon is the unix term for a background process,
usually used for servers and the like.
21:41 < mpl> yea I figured
21:41 < steven_t> is golang.org's go-based web server open source?
21:41 < mpl> you can't really have a daemon in the sense where you'd orphan
the process and give it to init
21:42 < mpl> the only thing you can do with go atm is just run them in the
background from your shell afaik.
21:42 < mpl> steven_t: read up.
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22:18 < steven_t> guys..
22:18 < steven_t> does go produce binaries that can be executed on similar
systems without the need for installing the go runtime or anything except for the
executable?
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22:19 < smw> steven_t, yes.  Go creates static binaries.
22:20 < steven_t> so it embeds the runtime into the binary?
22:20 < exch> the runtime is embedded in the binary
22:22 < smw> what exch said :-)
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22:34 < steven_t> i see.
22:34 < steven_t> thats just what objc does.
22:35 < steven_t> its just a bunch of functions in the objc lib which gets
statically included in the binary
22:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cM0tt by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gc/ -- gc:
change -u to require imports to be marked safe
22:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cM0tF by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gopack/ --
gopack: simplify go metadata code
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22:57 < steven_t> one thing i dont understand...  why did the go designers
choose such ugly preferences for keywords and syntax and naming conventions
22:57 < steven_t> why not something more like pythons keywords and naming
conventions?
22:59 <+iant> Go is more a descendant of C than of Python
22:59 < steven_t> right, but it starts fresh and totes this for a lot of big
changes
22:59 < steven_t> so why isnt one of them, "less ugly naming conventions"?
23:00 < steven_t> or "less shortened keywords"?
23:00 <+iant> I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder
23:00 <+iant> and terse is generally better than long
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23:02 < steven_t> oh that reminds me, does go allow passing named arguments
to functions?  or default values in func args?
23:02 <+iant> no, at least not at present
23:02 <+iant> some people use a map to simulate this, but it's not
especially convenient
23:02 <+iant> or a struct
23:03 < steven_t> hmm.
23:04 < steven_t> i noticed Go has returning multiple values from
functions/methods.  is that based on something like automatic
creation/packing/passing/unpacking of tuples like in python?  or is it something
else?
23:04 <+iant> Go doesn't have tuples, just multiple result parameters
23:04 < steven_t> intersecting.
23:05 <+iant> they aren't really packed and unpacked
23:05 < steven_t> i see.
23:05 < steven_t> factionating
23:06 < steven_t> i have to read on what an 'interface' is
23:06 < steven_t> i see it all over these docs
23:08 < steven_t> Go is pretty new, and that makes me nervous about
investing any time into becoming a pro at it.
23:08 < steven_t> because im not sure how well itll pick up in the business
world, where i can get jobs
23:09 < smw> steven_t, Then go is not for you...
23:09 < steven_t> who is it for?
23:09 < smw> if you are looking at it from a "will I get a job" perspective,
then you don't want this.  Try php or C++
23:10 < steven_t> lol.
23:10 < smw> If you need it for your own project, or a company project you
control, use it
23:10 < smw> if you want to play with a cool new language, use it
23:10 < steven_t> i have the skills to get less horrible jobs than c++ or
php at the moment.  but im looking for something fun to learn *and* that could
prove valuable in the future for employment
23:11 < steven_t> i guess i should count myself lucky that my dayjob is objc
rather than c++..  but its hard to look at it that way :D
23:11 < smw> lol
23:11 < smw> well, I can not decide your priorities.
23:12 < steven_t> i never asked you to
23:12 < smw> I do know that if "getting a job" is on the list, go is not the
answer
23:12 < steven_t> i simply said, i feel a little uncomfortable about
learning go just yet.  thats all
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23:12 < smw> but go is awesome :-)
23:12 < steven_t> i think itll be a lot easier once more things like apache
and python and unix and etc are rewritten in go
23:12 < steven_t> which im sure will happen
23:12 < steven_t> (maybe)
23:13 < smw> lol
23:13 < smw> hm...  there is no gopython...  there is one for every other
lang
23:13 < smw> it is a right of passage to have a python runtime :-P
23:14 < smw> even python has a python runtime
23:14 < steven_t> :D
23:14 < steven_t> then wed better get started!
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23:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cM2ZT by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/8l/ -- 8l:
correct test for sp == top of stack in 8l -K code
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