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02:23 < shazbot> are there any tools available for writing Go code in Emacs?
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02:26 < Makoryu> None whatsoever, I'm sure :V
02:26 < Makoryu> Actually there are probably at least two Emacs modes by now
02:28 * shazbot just found go-mode.el under the misc directory in the source code
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07:10 < TheSeeker> ooh.  http://ergolang.com/ (spied on ml)
07:14 < nsf> the nice thing about it, that it is written in Go
07:15 < nsf> otherwise it's a buggy windows compiler, who needs that :)
07:15 < Namegduf> That's interesting.
07:15 < TheSeeker> program / compile / debug Go from Visual Studio
interface?  yes please.
07:16 < Namegduf> If you say so.
07:16 * Namegduf is not a Windows dev, hated the few times he needed to compile
software on Windows.
07:16 < KBme> +1
07:17 < nsf> * Garbage collection is not yet implemented
07:17 < nsf> that's all I wanted to know
07:17 < TheSeeker> I'm too stupid to keep 1000 methods and variables in my
head when writing a large program.  I need stuff like method autocomplete and
variable spell checking to be anything close to productive :|
07:18 < nsf> you can't call "beta" a compiler of a garbage collected
language without GC
07:18 < TheSeeker> how long has GC been working in Go's main compiler?
07:18 < nsf> TheSeeker: have you seen gocode?
07:18 < Namegduf> Since release.
07:18 * TheSeeker uses windows, not linux/vim
07:19 < nsf> well, what can I say
07:19 < nsf> there is an eclipse integration though
07:19 < nsf> with few hacks it works on windows
07:19 < KBme> the eclipse plugin didn't really work when i last tried it
07:19 < KBme> it just mimicked working
07:20 < cbeck> http://static.flickr.com/87/240803829_9212773615_o.png
07:20 < TheSeeker> If tools are user-friendly, people will use tools.  if
you're super-elitist and just go with "windows is crap, you shouldn't use windows"
then you cut yourself off from a huge user-base.
07:20 < TheSeeker> if you don't WANT new developers learning Go, then that's
fine, I guess.
07:21 < Namegduf> I'm not a fan of VS even on Windows.
07:21 < Namegduf> Configuration was a PITA.
07:21 < Namegduf> And it's got poorer compatibility with other versions of
itself than, well, anything.
07:22 < nsf> you don't have to be a "super-elitist" to say "windows is crap"
07:22 < Namegduf> If people like it, that's good, I'm just saying it's not
to my taste.
07:22 < nsf> linux is a much better development platform than windows :)
07:22 < KBme> both of them are just as much crap
07:22 < TheSeeker> and windows is a much more user-friendly environment for
users, which is why it will always have more users.
07:22 < KBme> just in different ways
07:23 < Namegduf> KBme: That's a silly claim.
07:23 < Namegduf> Regardless of what metrics you pick, the odds of two
things compared being exactly equal are tiny.
07:23 < KBme> ha
07:23 < KBme> void == void
07:23 < KBme> even if one of the voids is 2x void
07:23 < Namegduf> It's a fallacy to go from "comparison is hard and vague
and a matter of debate" to "they're equal".
07:24 < KBme> bah, you fanboys just argue as much as you want
07:24 < nsf> well, I agree that windows gives much bigger user base
07:24 < nsf> but I don't know..  I'm concerned about quality :)
07:24 < nsf> of the user base
07:25 < nsf> although just adding more people helps too
07:25 < Namegduf> I think it's neat, I just can't comment aside "it's
interesting" at the VS integration.  :P
07:25 < nsf> in some ways
07:25 < TheSeeker> I don't care if it's VS integrated, it would just be
really nice if Go had a real IDE.  preferably written in Go...
07:25 < Namegduf> Also, they don't mention the Go compiler in Go working on
UNIX.
07:26 < Namegduf> Which I think does sound like a pity, especially given Go
provides much more functionality in a portable manner than C.
07:26 < Namegduf> And if there were bits missing, they could have
*contributed* them.
07:27 < Namegduf> Even if it's commercial.
07:27 < KBme> default joomla!  favicon ☺
07:27 < nsf> the only thing that bothers me regarding using Go for writing
an IDE
07:28 < nsf> it's a problem that I'm experiencing with gocode
07:28 < nsf> it can easily eat 200-400 megs of memory
07:28 < nsf> after 20-60 minutes of using
07:28 < TheSeeker> sounds like a memory leak.
07:28 < nsf> well, I have a little experience with GC languages
07:29 < cbeck> Here's hoping the move away from mark and sweep happens
sooner rather than later
07:29 < Namegduf> Sounds like references being kept somewhere.
07:29 < nsf> but objects count stays more or less ok
07:29 < nsf> although memory is still growing :(
07:29 < nsf> cbeck: I really hope that it will happen soon
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07:29 < nsf> Namegduf: yeah, and go figure out where
07:29 < nsf> :(
07:30 < TheSeeker> I think I read somewhere that Go never releases allocated
memory.  it will collect and mark allocated memory for re-use, but never give back
to the system.  so peak memory use = total memory use ?
07:30 < Namegduf> Yes.
07:31 < nsf> it's true, yes
07:31 < Namegduf> At present.
07:31 < Namegduf> Like a number of GC languages.
07:31 < nsf> but you know it just grows more and more, I don't understand
why
07:31 < nsf> it should stay more or less const
07:31 < Namegduf> This makes it suboptimal for things which you really
really want to be able to peak up, then go back down, but programs don't generally
behave that way.
07:31 < |Craig|> someone mentioned the eclipse for go.  I tried it recently.
It works, but is missing stuff thats needed for it to be usable
07:31 < TheSeeker> does that also mean that fragmented memory can lead to
ever-expanding footprints?
07:32 < nsf> TheSeeker: probably, yes
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07:33 < nsf> I'm very curious how golang.org web server handles that
07:34 < nsf> they don't tell us, but imho it eats memory as well
07:34 < nsf> slowly :)
07:34 < TheSeeker> I really have no idea how the memory manager works.  does
it find the first contiguous block large enough to satisfy a given allocation, and
allocates more at the end if nothing is found?
07:34 < nsf> and gets restarted every week or two due the releases of the go
07:35 < nsf> TheSeeker: it doesn't matter how it allocates the memory
frankly, it matters how it frees the memory
07:36 < nsf> and in the current case, it doesn't
07:36 < nsf> it keeps it in somewhat suboptimal internal structures and
apparently fails to use them wisely
07:38 < TheSeeker> so does the memory manager ever defragment the heap?
that seems like a hazerdous operation
07:38 < nsf> nope it doesn't
07:38 < nsf> it doesn't move the memory at all
07:39 < nsf> I don't like that approach actually, but looks like all good
modern GCs do that
07:39 < nsf> Mono sgen, .NET gc, pypy GC, etc.
07:39 < nsf> I guess there is a reason for that
07:40 < nsf> compacting is important for long-running processes
07:40 < nsf> but it creates a problem with using pointers
07:41 < |Craig|> allocate 1gb, allocate, 1 byte, deallocate 1gb, allocate
1.1 gb...  I can see how poor orginizing can waste a ton of memory.  I wonder how
much of a problem it is with lots of mid/small objects though
07:41 < nsf> you can't just pass pointer to the C API and hope that the
memory it points to will not move
07:41 < nsf> .NET uses pinning for that
07:41 < nsf> Go has no such thing currently, but apparently it is required
for compacting gc
07:46 < TheSeeker> hmm, related thread
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/3bfbb83dd9a15242
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07:47 < KBme> linux can compact memry also, now..
07:47 < nsf> well, he is lucky, memory usage grows slowly
07:47 < nsf> few kilobytes after 20 runs
07:47 < nsf> in my case it's one or more megs after each run :)
07:55 < nsf> and it's funny that memory actually starts growing
07:55 < nsf> if I'm trying to free my internal caches
07:55 < nsf> :D
07:55 < TheSeeker> I'm thinking of trying to make a Go implementation of
Freenet ...  if it ends up being anything like the Java implementation though,
it'll be allocating and freeing hundreds of megs per minute.  I can see that
becoming a problem real fast :|
07:56 < nsf> probably, yes
07:57 < TheSeeker> well, no sense worrying about it until I try...  first
step, make a UDP listen socket.  :)
08:05 < nsf> I've created a ruby script that runs gocode autocompletion
command, let's see how much memory it will eat
08:07 < nsf> it is slowing down though, makes me think that it is not really
a memory leak
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09:06 < napsy> Is google protobufs a petented thing?
09:06 < napsy> patented*
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09:12 < TheSeeker> hmm, any obvious reason why this little echo program
doesn't work?  http://dark-code.bulix.org/vmud8b-78762
09:12 < nsf> I don't think that you can patent a data format, but it is
possible to patent encoding/decoding algorithm
09:12 < nsf> although I don't think that this is the case with protobufs
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09:13 * TheSeeker is probably going about writing a 'read from socket' loop all
wrong :P
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13:03 < uriel> nsf: it is certainly not possible to patent any of that
outside the US
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13:12 < nsf> well, when someone talks about patents, he means mostly US
13:12 < nsf> I guess
13:12 < nsf> software patents*
13:14 < nsf> uriel: btw, what do you think about non-recursive make?
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13:15 < nsf> i've heard you don't like gmake, but actually gmake provides
more or less enough features for implementing that
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14:18 < TheSeeker> ok, so my udpecho program seems to work under linux, with
ReadFromUDP() being a blocking operation
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14:51 < TheSeeker> replacing conn.ReadFrom(buf) / conn.ReadFromUDP(buf) with
conn.Read(buf) it works, but I can no longer tell where the data came from...
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15:29 < morphiax> Hi, could someone point me in the right direction?  Very
confused about the http package
15:30 < morphiax> Trying to do this in go:
http://code.google.com/apis/accounts/docs/AuthForInstalledApps.html
15:30 < morphiax> I can do the first part, get a response
15:30 < morphiax> But then I have to set a cookie with the SID received
15:31 < morphiax> and make requests to the Google Service with this cookie
15:32 < morphiax> I figure you can use AddHeader with the response I get
back from the first request
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15:32 < morphiax> But I don't understand how to use the response to make a
get request
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15:33 < morphiax> Any advice?
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16:40 < nsf> wrtp: hey, few days ago we were talking about non-recursive
make approach for Go, I have a small demo for you (few basic templates and few
packages from Go lib including complex 'runtime')
16:40 < nsf> are you still interested?
16:45 < wrtp> yes, but i couldn't look at it for a couple of days
16:47 < nsf> well, what about now?  do you want me to upload it somewhere?
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16:51 < wrtp> busy now
16:51 < nsf> ok
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18:57 < fenicks> hello
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19:20 < sxs> hi
19:21 < sxs> i just found a bug in the Effective Go Docu.  Should i report
it in the regular issue tracker?  Or fix it in my local hg clone and push
somewhere?
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19:28 < sxs> http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#defer the example code
will not compile: bytes is undefined.  i tried buf.Add() instead.  does not
complile, too
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19:32 < uriel> sxs: report it, or follow the instructions at
http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html
19:32 < uriel> if it is a short fix, probably filling the bug should be the
simplest
19:32 < MaybeSo> not listed there would be a line at the top for the imports
of "os" and "bytes"
19:33 < MaybeSo> I'm not sure they bother to list those imports in all the
examples
19:33 < sxs> ahh, bytes package that's it
19:33 < MaybeSo> they are simply showing snippets of code, not necessarily
fully functioning programs
19:36 < sxs> yes, i understand.  but sometimes that's a problem for newbies
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20:15 < skelterjohn> taking a look at the godashboard projects list, the
only tree collection i see is GoLLRB
20:15 < skelterjohn> has anyone used that?
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21:57 < sxs> how can i convert *string to string?  is it possable?
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22:07 <+iant> sxs: what do you mean?  given variable v of type *string, then
*v has type string
22:08 < sxs> puh, the pointer stuff confuses me.  When a func returns
*string and i want to pass it to an other function which needs string i have to
add the *?
22:08 <+iant> yes, *string is a pointer to a string; to get the string
value, use *v
22:09 < sxs> ok.  when i build some structs i ca nuse t *T or t T. what is
the best practice to choose?
22:10 < sxs> in methids when i want to modify the sender i shoud use a
pointer.  but when else?
22:10 <+iant> if the struct is large, then it is more efficient to pass *T
to a function than it is to pass T
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22:10 <+iant> other than function calls, T is generally more efficient
22:11 <+iant> of course when the function is to modify the struct, you
should use *T
22:14 < sxs> thx
22:15 < sxs> in generall, can i get a pointer from every type with &?
22:15 <+iant> yes
22:16 < sxs> but instead of passing around a pointer to an large array i
should use a slice of it, right?
22:16 <+iant> yes
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22:33 < sxs> i have direcotries as followed: src/pkg in src is my main.go in
pkg i have lang/token.go.  i tried import "./lang/tokengo" and "lang/token".
can't import.
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22:36 < sxs> is there somethinf like "class_path" in java?  a base directory
for the imports?
22:38 < |Craig|> sxs: use "/localPath"
22:38 < fafhrd> hey all new to Go, and working through the tutorial at
http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html ; I've gotten to the point of compiling the
"file" example (under section "An I/O Package", and I get "use of package file not
in selector" when following the directions to compile -- I've been over the code,
and it seems verbatim from the example -- thoughts?
22:38 < |Craig|> with no leading / it looks inside the go packages folder I
think
22:39 <+iant> fafhrd: confusion about file vs.  File?
22:39 <+iant> file is the name of a package, File is the name of a type
22:40 < fafhrd> iant: then there's definitely an error in the example file
is only referenced as "import "./file"", and is never set up as a var or :=
22:41 <+iant> that is right, though; file is the name of the package, not a
variable
22:41 < fafhrd> (in the example's "helloworld3.go" (i named it main.go) --
the file.go portion compiles cleanly)
22:42 <+iant> what does the line that gets that error look like in your
source code?
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22:43 < fafhrd> file, err = file.Open("/meh/mah/moo.txt", 0, 0)
22:43 < fafhrd> (the file is supposed to not exist ;-) )
22:43 < fafhrd> (that is, the one being opened)
22:43 <+iant> you are using "file" as both a variable and a package name
22:43 <+iant> hmmm, you're right, the source code does that too....
22:43 < fafhrd> so does the example
22:43 < fafhrd> right
22:44 * fafhrd tries to change name
22:44 <+iant> hmmm, this is a bit tricky; you used "=" rather than ":="
22:44 <+iant> when using ":=" the code defines a new "file" which shadows
the package level "file"
22:44 <+iant> without ":=" you are referring to an existing variable
22:44 <+iant> but the only existing variable is the package
22:44 <+iant> hence the error
22:45 < fafhrd> oh -- i see that now!  thanks!  ...  which means the
variable file isn't being allocated (as opposed to the package file, which is
always there after import), right?
22:45 <+iant> right
22:45 < fafhrd> cool ...  and indeed it compiles; thanks
22:47 < fafhrd> so ...  the "namespacing" of Go allows for names to be the
same between variables and packages?  i.e.  var file and package file above?
22:47 < sxs> Craig: But you don't mean absolute path, right?
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22:48 < |Craig|> sxs: just the path from main.go file or what ever I think
22:48 < |Craig|> I figured it out kinda on accident, and I don't really know
how it works, I just need a / before my package names for ones in the same folder
22:49 < sxs> ok, import token "/pkg/lang/token.go" will not work
22:49 < |Craig|> no .go on the end, but otherwise, maybe
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22:50 < sxs> sorry, didn't had an .go at the end.  typo
22:50 < |Craig|> I think a leading slash means look relative to the working
directory, and no leading slash means look relative to go's packages folder
22:50 < |Craig|> but thats just a guess
22:51 < |Craig|> "image/png" for example is in side a folder called "image"
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22:52 < cbeck> "./mypkg" is in the current dir
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22:52 < |Craig|> I don't have a . and my imports work
22:53 < |Craig|> is this documented anywhere?
22:53 < |Craig|> I'd like to see it all nicely laid out
22:53 < diordna> I just upgraded my go and now I get this on basic
hello-world code: "can't find import: fmt"
22:53 < diordna> what did I break?
22:54 < sxs> puh, i only found
http://golang.org/doc/go_faq.html#Packages_Testing
22:54 < sxs> but that will not give us the answer
22:55 < sxs> i triet './ ' /' and without a prefix.  all does not work
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22:57 < sxs> i also tried to put the files into same directory and tried all
three versions
22:58 < sxs> also i tried with and w/o pkg/, caus i think i'read something
that pkg is something by convention.
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23:02 < sxs> must the import point to where the .go or the .6 file is?
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23:16 < sxs> http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html#tmp_184 7th code example
23:16 < artefon> diordna: how did u upgrade your working dir?
23:16 < diordna> just like it says on the web site
23:16 < diordna> hg pull / hg update release / ./all.bash
23:17 < sxs> use import "./foo/bar to import ./foo/bar.go nut it must be
compiled (there is a bar.6 beside)
23:17 < sxs> and main must be compiled in the directory frome where you
start relativele
23:17 < artefon> diordna: is GO_HOME set correctly?
23:17 < diordna> artefon: yes, I have upgraded several times with no issues
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23:17 < sxs> mine does not compile because i ran 6g src/main.go -o ...
23:18 < sxs> if i run the compile inside src it works
23:18 < artefon> diordna: humm i cant help you :( sorry
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23:19 < sxs> good night, good fight
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 16 00:00:13 2010