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01:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/KaOHWY by [Ken Thompson] in go/src/cmd/5g/ --
peep: more optimization
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01:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/x1qaGq by [Ken Thompson] in go/src/cmd/5g/ --
cgen64: dont use MVN instruction
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01:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fAlJ3k by [Alex Brainman] in go/ -- .hgignore:
ignore src/pkg/runtime/version_*.go
01:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/oLise1 by [Alex Brainman] in go/src/ --
src/run.bash: get rid of long windows expression
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02:53 < vice_virtue> If I have a method (say: func (this Data) Write(data
[]byte) for example) which modifies the receiver, do I use a pointer for the
receiver?
02:53 < Eridius> yes
02:53 < Eridius> if you don't use a pointer, then you're operating on a copy
of the struct
02:54 < vice_virtue> Thanks, so then it's just like C
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02:54 < Namegduf> Yeah; everything is passed by value.
02:54 < vice_virtue> ...  though if "Data" were defined as: type Data
[]byte, then I could change the values inside of it but not extend it, correct?
02:55 < Namegduf> Yes.
02:55 < Namegduf> Slices are a reference type.
02:55 < vice_virtue> Lovely, thanks
02:55 < vice_virtue> Wait...  they're sort-of a reference type...  not
entirely
02:55 < Namegduf> They're a reference type.
02:56 < vice_virtue> All slices of a given array point to the same array
(and hence can mutate it), but the fields such as len and cap are values, aren't
they?
02:57 < Namegduf> They're part of the reference type, yes.
02:58 < Namegduf> A slice is a reference to a length of data.
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03:03 < rm445> if we have two slices on an array and append to one of them
such that it reallocates, do we then have two slices on two separate underlying
arrays?
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03:06 < Eridius> rm445: I would imagine so
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03:10 < vice_virtue> Namegduf, perhaps you misunderstand me...
http://pastie.org/1543469 outputs http://pastie.org/1543473
03:10 < vice_virtue> So slices are pass-by-value, even though that value
includes a reference to the underlying array
03:11 < Namegduf> Yes.
03:11 < vice_virtue> A more illustrative example loops from 0 to extendTo
03:12 < Namegduf> That's what reference types are.
03:14 < vice_virtue> I'm not sure you understand me yet...  a slice is a
structure with (afaik) 3 fields: data, len, and cap.  If it were passed by
reference then I could mutate either of those three fields.  Since it's not, I can
only mutate the data which data references
03:14 < Namegduf> You can't manipulate any of the fields, aside by making a
new slice.
03:15 < vice_virtue> I see what you mean.
03:16 < vice_virtue> Although doesn't append potentially mutate a slice?
From what I recall, the only reason we need to reassign the slice in the case of
append is incase the underlying array needs to be reallocated
03:16 * vice_virtue goes to investigate whether slices are in fact immutable
03:16 < Namegduf> Append mutates the array.  It can't mutate the slice, it's
passed by value.
03:17 < Namegduf> Slices are immutable like integers are.
03:17 < vice_virtue> :) I'll buy that
03:18 < Namegduf> I'd consider the len, certainly, to be as much a part of
the referenced data as the data pointer.
03:18 < Namegduf> If you change the len, it's a difference slice pointing to
a different set of data.
03:19 < Eridius> for the record, slices also contain a index into the array
for the first value.  That's just not exposed anywhere
03:19 < Eridius> (unlike len and cap, which are exposed via the relevant
methods)
03:20 < Namegduf> Really?  I thought the data pointer was just allowed to
point into the middle of an array.
03:21 < vice_virtue> From the underlying representation standpoint, I
believe that what Namegduf says makes more sense..  unless it's somehow GC related
(I'm not sure how the GC works)
03:23 < Eridius> Namegduf: ..you may be right.  I should probably shut up ;)
03:23 < Eridius> Namegduf: actually no, that's probably not true
03:23 < Eridius> Namegduf: the array has to be rooted by the slice.  Unless
the GC can understand pointers into the array and find the start from it
03:24 < Eridius> which I suppose is possible.  In either case, it's an
implementation detail
03:24 < rm445> Eridius: src/pkg/runtime/runtime.h seems to contradict you -
I've only glanced at it but look at the definition of struct Slice
03:25 < Namegduf> Why does the array have to be "rooted"?
03:25 < Namegduf> The GC has to understand pointers into the middle anway
03:25 < Namegduf> *anyway
03:25 < Eridius> rm445: you may be right
03:25 < Namegduf> You can take the address of an item in an array
03:25 < Eridius> alright, back to shutting up
03:26 < Namegduf> 'sokay.
03:26 < Namegduf> I was looking for that struct.
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03:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/hHDZMZ by [Yasuhiro Matsumoto] in
go/lib/codereview/ -- codereview: use cmd.communicate.
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03:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bsJdqF by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/ -- fix
build clean.bash
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04:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/W8DPlF by [Alex Brainman] in
go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: implement windows version of Fsync
04:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/D5KdTh by [Kyle Consalus] in
go/src/pkg/container/ring/ -- container/ring: Replace Iter() with Do().
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08:19 < wrtp> sussman: you're welcome to open-source the code if you want
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09:59 < nsf> http://nsf.github.com/images/ccode2.png
09:59 < nsf> :P
09:59 * nsf is a master of autocompletion daemons
10:00 < napsy> nsf: what colorscheme is that?
10:00 < nsf> baycomb afair
10:00 < nsf> modified
10:02 < napsy> ok tnx
10:02 < nsf> http://pastie.org/1498670
10:03 < nsf> plus I use in .vim/after/syntax/c.vim
10:03 < nsf> syn matchcOperator"(\|)"
10:03 < nsf> syn matchcOperator"{\|}"
10:03 < napsy> cool, tnx
10:03 < nsf> oops
10:03 < nsf> syn match cOperator "(\|)", etc.
10:03 < nsf> in Go too
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10:27 < erus_> slice has an append method now right?
10:27 < nsf> no
10:27 < Namegduf> There's an append function.
10:27 < Namegduf> Not a method.
10:27 < nsf> append is a built-in function
10:27 < Namegduf> Builtins have no methods.
10:27 < nsf> var x []string
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10:27 < nsf> x = append(x, "1", "2", "3")
10:27 < nsf> x == []string{"1", "2", "3"}
10:28 < Namegduf> How does slice equality work?
10:28 < nsf> it doesn't work like that
10:28 < Namegduf> I didn't think so.
10:28 < nsf> just an example :)
10:28 < Namegduf> But that is what x contains, yeah.
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10:28 < nsf> I meant that x is that slice
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10:51 < erus_> does append increase capacity for me?
10:52 < nsf> yes
10:52 < nsf> it returns a new slice if an old has not enough capacity
10:52 < nsf> an old one*
10:53 < erus_> super
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11:04 < erus_> are strings passed by value?
11:05 < Namegduf> Strings are immutable, so you can't tell the difference.
11:05 < erus_> if i have functions that process string as input should i
have string ptr as arguement
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11:05 < Namegduf> Function parameters are always pass-by-value.
11:06 < Namegduf> There are no exceptions.
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11:06 < Namegduf> Types can be reference types, in which case referring to
the data they contain can modify the original
11:06 < erus_> so it makes sense to pass string ptr into function?
11:06 < nsf> erus_: no
11:06 < Namegduf> No.
11:06 < erus_> ah ok
11:06 < Namegduf> Assigning TO a passed-in value will always just modify the
local variable named that.
11:07 < erus_> yeh i get that
11:07 < erus_> i was just thinking speed wise
11:07 < Namegduf> Strings are internally implemented as a pointer and
length.
11:07 < Namegduf> Like a slice without a cap.
11:07 < Namegduf> (Since they can't be mutated)
11:07 < Namegduf> So copying a string does not actually copy the string's
data.
11:08 < Namegduf> Slicing a string also does not actually copy the string's
data.
11:08 < erus_> super
11:09 < Namegduf> You can't tell the difference between them copying the
data, since you can't modify a string anyway.
11:09 < Namegduf> Just generate a new string based on the old one.
11:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/4b37GG by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in
go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: handle unchunked, un-lengthed HTTP/1.1 responses
11:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/e0102M by [Gustavo Niemeyer] in
go/src/cmd/cgo/ -- cgo: fix handling of signed enumerations
11:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5H33ry by [Gustavo Niemeyer] in go/src/pkg/ --
build: Drop syslog on DISABLE_NET_TESTS=1
11:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Ip26ar by [Andrew Gerrand] in
go/misc/dashboard/godashboard/ -- misc/dashboard: hide benchmarks link temporarily
11:22 < erus_> I just wrote a mesh loader for my own custom mest format :D
11:22 < erus_> now i have to write a converter or plugin :|
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12:47 < erus_> what are my options for compiling file data in a binary?
just bin2h type stuff?
12:48 < Days`> hello there, i got an "non-declaration statement outside
function body" in my very simple code here : http://pastie.org/1544658 , do you
know why ?
12:49 < Days`> it seems that i can't create an object outside the main
function scope, but if i create an object like a map (var params =
make(map[int]string) for example) it does work.
12:51 < fzzbt> how to convert string to []byte?
12:51 < mpl> fzzbt: []byte(foo)
12:53 < decaf> Days`: you can only call a function in another function
12:53 < decaf> mysql.New() in this case
12:53 < fzzbt> still get error ..  problem somewhere else maybe
12:53 < Days`> oh i see, thanks you decaf
12:54 < mpl> fzzbt: what error?
12:54 < decaf> yw
12:58 < Days`> decaf: interesting thing is that you can assign it outside a
function, then call its methods
12:58 < wrtp> decaf: that's not true
12:59 < decaf> oops
12:59 < wrtp> the short assignment outside the function body is the problem
12:59 < decaf> enlighten me please
12:59 < wrtp> Days`: you need var db = ....
12:59 < wrtp> you can't use := outside a function
12:59 < mpl> wrtp: yes, but why?
12:59 < wrtp> because it makes the syntax much simpler
13:00 < Days`> yep i was just pastieng that
13:00 < Days`> http://pastie.org/1544729 this works fine
13:00 < mpl> wrtp: how so?  the parser would have to get much more
complicated to work with that?
13:00 < decaf> error message should be "too simple syntax" then
13:01 < wrtp> it's because of the ambiguity between func as declaration and
func as expression, i think
13:01 < Namegduf> Everything at top level begins with a keyword
13:01 < Namegduf> This is kinda pretty
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13:02 < Namegduf> For short declarations, that would need to not be true
anymore.
13:02 < wrtp> i guess they could put in a special case for := at top level
13:02 < fzzbt> mpl: nvm, i was trying to convert a pointer accidentally.  it
work now
13:02 < Namegduf> That would be a pity.
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13:03 < wrtp> i dunno.  it does seem slightly odd that you can't do it.
13:03 < mpl> it sounds like a good reason, but it still is an odd limitation
everytime I encounter it.
13:04 < aiju> Namegduf: or just allow leaving out the type
13:11 < wrtp> you can leave out the type
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13:14 < wrtp> yeah, it would be easy to put into the grammar.  no conflicts.
13:15 < wrtp> but it would make := more special than it currently is -
currently it's grammatically just the same as an assignment statement
13:16 < wrtp> and i don't think we want arbitrary assignment statements at
global level
13:16 < KBme> yeah, i think that usually mean the design is wrong at one
point
13:21 < wrtp> yeah - the dependency-based global initialisation in go is
very strong point.
13:21 < wrtp> you'd lose that if you allowed sequential assignment
statements.
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13:44 < plexdev> http://is.gd/mBmCXu by [Adam Langley] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/x509/ -- crypto/x509: add name constraints support.
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14:33 < dario_> is there a better way to implement a singleton in go:
http://paste.q0a.de/m3630 ?
14:35 < erus_> do we really need singletons in go?
14:36 < erus_> I was doing something like that dario_ and i reallized i
didnt need to wrap the functions in a class
14:36 < aiju> singletons seem really stupid
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14:38 < dario_> ok, the idea i just had depends on them, so i'm just gonna
try it, and will realize once i have shot myself into the foot :D
14:38 < wrtp> isn't a singleton just a global variable?
14:39 < rm445> make me boggle too, but a bunch of us boggling doesn't
explain anything - we need someone who thinks singletons are great to explain why
14:39 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts
14:39 < wrtp> if you don't want to create it at startup, then you can use
sync.Once
14:40 < wrtp> and have a function to return the value
14:40 < Ina> Singletons are global variables for people who claim to loathe
global variables.
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14:42 < skelterjohn> morning
14:42 < skelterjohn> nothing wrong with global variables
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14:43 < Ina> There's some subtle differences between Singletons and globals,
but in 95% of the cases, a Singleton is used where a global would be (slightly)
more efficient without sacrificing anything.
14:44 < wrtp> dario_: http://paste.q0a.de/m3632
14:45 < wrtp> Ina: is the subtle difference simply that a global variable is
created at initialisation time, not first-call time?
14:46 < Ina> That's the biggest one, IIRC.  I don't use Singletons myself,
though.
14:46 < dario_> wrtp: yah, probably
14:46 < wrtp> the pattern is common then.  i don't see why you'd ever need
to use the word "Singleton" though.
14:47 < skelterjohn> because a patterns book from the 90s coined lots of
silly words
14:47 < Ina> what skelterjohn says
14:48 < dario_> +2
14:48 < wrtp> i had a look at that book once.  it went straight over my head
14:48 < wrtp> i think it only makes sense if you're working in a language
with inheritance
14:49 < exch> design patterns by themselves are just silly
14:49 < skelterjohn> that, and all the ideas are really straightforward and
easy to come up with on your own
14:49 < skelterjohn> i have a not-so-charitable opinion that the whole
'design pattern' thing is to help good programmers quickly explain simple ideas to
morons
14:49 < exch> Most of the time they just describe common sense ways of
implementing something.  Why on earth you would need to give it a name and write
books abuot it is beyond me
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14:51 < wrtp> i think it's probably because several mainstream languages are
so full of pitfalls that you have to tread very carefully to avoid them
14:52 < exch> possibly
14:52 < skelterjohn> i TA'd a course for two years where we taught these
pattens, and tested students on their knowledge of them
14:52 < skelterjohn> i felt silly most of the time
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14:55 < exch> The last C# job I applied for a few years ago was with a firm
which was really into all these hype things.  Thorough knowledge of design
patterns was apparently the single most important thing to them
14:55 < exch> When that came up, I was very much inclined to just stand up
and walk out, but I really needed the work.  So had to force myself not to rage
14:56 < wrtp> the funny thing is, i quite often get the feeling that i'm
missing something really important, something crucial, something that would really
make me "get it".
14:56 < skelterjohn> nono
14:56 < skelterjohn> don't feel that way
14:56 < exch> there is nothing magical about design patterns
14:57 < skelterjohn> treating design patterns as some kind of fundamental
building blocks is overly simplistic and unworkable
14:57 < exch> If anything, they can complicate understanding by using obtuse
and convoluted terms and analogies
14:57 < skelterjohn> i agree
14:58 < exch> For some people this works I suppose.  But not for me :p
14:58 -!- xyproto [~alexander@77.40.159.131] has joined #go-nuts
14:58 < skelterjohn> "well i see you have a global variable, there.
wouldn't our program be better if it used the singleton pattern instead?"
14:58 < exch> hehe
14:58 < exch> return that question by asking "Why exactly would that be
better?"
14:58 < exch> and see how quickly they shit themselves
14:58 < skelterjohn> because global variables are bad, everyone knows that
14:58 < xyproto> Does the current hg version of go not compile for anyone
else as well?
14:59 < skelterjohn> xyproto: i'll check
14:59 < xyproto> skelterjohn: thx
14:59 < skelterjohn> (running all.bash)
14:59 < skelterjohn> and when you say "current version", do you mean "hg
pull -u"?
14:59 < skelterjohn> or release
15:01 < exch> chromium is really starting to piss me off
15:01 < exch> apparently it's impossible to forkexec a new chrome window/tab
and track the process until it is closed
15:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has joined #go-nuts
15:02 < exch> Whichever way I try it.  with os.Wait(), or manually polling
procfs for process info, as soon as it is launched, the process is marked as dead.
Eventhough the window/tab is very much alive
15:03 < skelterjohn> the process you spawned probably spawned another
process
15:03 < skelterjohn> check the id of the process you're watching against the
id of the window you know is alive
15:03 < exch> Either that, or it is usurped by chromiums sandbox process
15:05 < exch> that's the kicker.  the same id is still there
15:05 < exch> ah wait
15:05 < exch> If I spawn chrome from a fresh instance (no other windows/tabs
are open), the code works
15:05 < exch> But if an instance is already running, things go wrong
15:07 < exch> This is turning out to be a major dealbreaker as far as my app
is concerned.  I think I'll consider a different approach
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15:08 < exch> A PING message approach may be better.  My server launches,
spawns chrome and tracks incoming 'PING' http requests.
15:08 < exch> that should get rid of any kind of browser specific malarky
15:08 < skelterjohn> are you making a GUI app by running a server and
connecting to it immediately with chrome?
15:08 < exch> yes
15:08 < skelterjohn> cool
15:09 < exch> it works beautifully for any other browser, except chrome
15:09 < skelterjohn> :<
15:09 < exch> So perhaps the PING thing is a viable alternative
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15:09 -!- yebyen [~yebyen@martyfunkhouser.csh.rit.edu] has joined #go-nuts
15:09 < yebyen> can someone help me with map[string]interface{}?
15:10 < skelterjohn> what's the problem, yebyen?
15:10 < yebyen> is it possible to declare an anonymous function and assign
it to that
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15:10 < skelterjohn> xyproto: it compiled fine for me
15:10 < skelterjohn> yebyen: any type can be held by an interface{}
15:11 < skelterjohn> so if you have x := func(){...}; mymap["x"] = x
15:11 < skelterjohn> that would work fine
15:11 -!- dchest [~dchest@95.155.52.241] has quit [Quit: dchest]
15:11 < skelterjohn> but then to call it, you'd have to do
mymap["x"].(func())() i think
15:11 < skelterjohn> i think func() is the right signature for that
15:11 < yebyen> like var container = map[string]interface{} { "key" : func()
{ return func(text string) { return "<b>" + render(text) + "</b>" } }
15:12 < yebyen> something is not right, because that does not compile
15:12 < skelterjohn> at a glance that looks ok
15:12 < skelterjohn> oh
15:12 < exch> func() has no return value defined
15:12 < yebyen> d'oh
15:12 < yebyen> i just noticed that
15:13 < yebyen> func() func()?
15:13 < yebyen> how does one say what i mean
15:13 < yebyen> this is tricky
15:14 <+iant> the type of a function which has no parameters and no results
is "func()"
15:14 < skelterjohn> x := func() func() {return func(){doSomething()}}
15:14 < skelterjohn> y := x()
15:14 < skelterjohn> z := y()
15:14 < skelterjohn> z() -> doSomething()
15:18 -!- dchest [~dchest@95.155.52.241] has joined #go-nuts
15:19 < exch> perhaps give those functions their own type first.  At least
that makes the code easier to understand by splitting it up into smaller chunks.
15:19 < yebyen> yeah i'm writing it out across a few more lines, and not
inside a map
15:19 < yebyen> to make sure i understand what i'm trying to do ...
15:19 < yebyen> but i'm trying to get on mustache.go
15:20 < yebyen> i don't know if it's crazy to want to write my data up in go
instead of in javascript
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15:23 < yebyen> the syntax sure will make it clearer what's happening
15:24 < yebyen> rather than absent-type returning
15:24 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-40-138-161.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br]
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15:24 < yebyen> i really wanted func() func(text string)string
15:26 < yebyen> ..  maybe
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15:26 < yebyen> this is odd
15:27 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-40-138-161.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br]
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15:27 < yebyen> i think i have it though
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15:28 < yebyen> only 22 compile attempts later
15:28 < yebyen> not bad
15:30 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
15:31 < skelterjohn> :)
15:31 < xyproto> skelterjohn: strange that it compiles for you.  I get
"gamma.go:157: invalid operation: z * x (type float * float64)", amongst others
15:32 < skelterjohn> ah
15:32 < skelterjohn> i should have asked from the beginning
15:32 < skelterjohn> you have old binaries floating around
15:32 < skelterjohn> do a "which 6g"
15:32 < xyproto> skelterjohn: gcc 4.5.2
15:32 < xyproto> skelterjohn: ah
15:32 < skelterjohn> or 8g if you use 6g
15:32 < xyproto> skelterjohn: /usr/bin/6g
15:32 < skelterjohn> delete all go-related binaries from /usr/bin
15:32 < skelterjohn> the float type doesn't actually exist anymore
15:33 < xyproto> skelterjohn: ah, ok, I will try that.  Thank you.
15:33 < skelterjohn> so i know when you compile you're using something
pretty old
15:34 < yebyen> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/335101/
15:34 < skelterjohn> yebyen: that is very hard to read
15:34 < yebyen> what's a better pastebin
15:34 < skelterjohn> i think you should define some intermediate types
15:35 < skelterjohn> oh - not what i meant
15:35 < yebyen> skelterjohn: what i need to see is why does line 17 compile
and line 14 blows up
15:35 < xyproto> skelterjohn: yes, it got a bit further this time, but now I
get a different error
15:35 < skelterjohn> it's hard for me to tell - you should define
intermediate types :)
15:35 < xyproto> skelterjohn: --- FAIL: net.TestGoogleSRV
15:35 < xyproto> failed: lookup _xmpp-server._tcp.google.com.  on
[10.10.10.1]:53: no such host
15:36 < yebyen> then i can try and figure out what line 25 should look like,
for actually calling that function ^_^
15:36 < skelterjohn> xyproto: there is a way to disable net tests
15:36 < skelterjohn> something like "NET_TEST_DISABLE=1"
15:36 < skelterjohn> but probably not exactly that
15:36 < xyproto> skelterjohn: ok.  My previous version of go was not that
old, btw, just approx 4 months :)
15:36 < xyproto> skelterjohn: I'll find the option.  Thanks.
15:36 < skelterjohn> xyproto: that's about when the float type was removed
15:37 < skelterjohn> keep in mind that 4 months is a sold 25% of go's
lifetime :)
15:37 < skelterjohn> solid
15:37 < skelterjohn> xyproto: DISABLE_NET_TESTS=1
15:40 < xyproto> skelterjohn: ok, I found it, but when I now do this:
DISABLE_NET_TESTS=1 ./all.bash, I get a complaint about quietgcc.  It seems like
it was removed when I removed the go package.
15:40 < xyproto> ./make.bash: line 28: /usr/bin/quietgcc: Permission denied
15:40 < skelterjohn> permission denied doesn't mean it isn't there
15:40 < xyproto> which is strange in itself, since /usr/bin/quietgcc is not
therre
15:40 < skelterjohn> it means it has the wrong permissions
15:40 < skelterjohn> um
15:41 < xyproto> ls: cannot access /usr/bin/quietgcc: No such file or
directory
15:41 < skelterjohn> :s
15:42 < skelterjohn> try running quietgcc.bash?
15:42 < skelterjohn> or copy quietgcc.bash to /usr/bin/quietgcc
15:42 < skelterjohn> ?
15:42 < skelterjohn> i'm guessing here, never had to deal with this
15:42 < xyproto> skelterjohn: solved it by making a symlink from
/usr/bin/gcc to quietgcc...
15:42 < yebyen> skelterjohn: http://pastie.org/1545253
15:43 < skelterjohn> gonna be a noisy compile, i suppose
15:43 < yebyen> that is what you wanted to see i think...  can you tell me
about line 18?
15:43 < xyproto> skelterjohn: oh well, better than no compile
15:44 < skelterjohn> xyproto: $GOROOT/src/quietgcc.bash is just a script
that invokes gcc, so you can probably make it link there instead (in the future)
15:44 < skelterjohn> yebyen: looking
15:44 < yebyen> it will be great if i just need another comma or something
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15:45 < xyproto> skelterjohn: seems to compile now, with DISABLE_NET_TESTS
and /usr/bin/quietgcc in place...  :)
15:45 < skelterjohn> cool, glad it worked out
15:46 < xyproto> skelterjohn: thanks for helping out :)
15:46 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@84.119.84.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
15:47 < yebyen> i almost remember my prof teaching his go class saying this
was one of the disappointing things about go
15:47 < yebyen> that line 21 compiles but line 18 does not...
15:47 < yebyen> maybe if i just assign the variable first
15:47 < skelterjohn> put a coma at the end of line 18
15:47 < skelterjohn> comma
15:48 < skelterjohn> the lexer is inserting a semi-colon
15:48 < yebyen> oh damn :)
15:48 < skelterjohn> so you either need to put a comma, or move the curly
brace on the next line up to line 18
15:48 < yebyen> that was it
15:48 < skelterjohn> that whole semi-colon thing still bugs me
15:48 < fzzbt> Is "buf := new(bytes.Buffer)" the same as "buf :=
&bytes.Buffer{}"?  They both seem to work, but I don't understand why you would
ever want to use new() when you can just allocate new instances by taking variable
address..  ??
15:49 < skelterjohn> fzzbt: x := new(X) is the same as x := &X{}
15:50 < exch> &X presumably allocateds objects on the heap, the other one
does not
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15:50 < exch> or was the other way around?
15:50 < erus_> have you guys read this: http://monoc.mo.funpic.de/go-rant/
15:50 < skelterjohn> exch: they're both on the heap
15:50 < skelterjohn> if you ever take an address, it's on the heap.
something from new is on the heap
15:50 < fzzbt> skelterjohn: seems kinda redundant
15:50 < skelterjohn> *shrug*
15:50 < fzzbt> which one should i prefer
15:51 < skelterjohn> no consensus on that
15:51 < skelterjohn> erus_: that page launched an annoying new window that
tried to sell me something with an audio file
15:51 < exch> erus_: note that that was written in 2009.  Go was barely out
of the womb back then.  Arguments like that are worth absolutely 0.
15:52 < exch> Might as well change the title of that into "HAHA Ima rant so
I can get some page views, yay!'
15:53 < skelterjohn> i'm not thrilled with his use of the term "new jersey
approach"
15:53 < wrtp> fzzbt: if you're initialising some fields, use &T{field:
value, ...}; if not, use new(T)
15:53 < erus_> the only thing I kinda agree with is his position on
exceptions
15:53 < erus_> but I'm not sure I like them
15:53 < erus_> but go has recover or something now right?
15:53 < wrtp> erus_: he was writing at a time when go had no form of
exception
15:53 < aiju> erus_: yeah
15:54 < aiju> "really ugly syntax"
15:54 < skelterjohn> he also mischaracterized the reasons for not having
generics and exceptions
15:54 < exch> His approach is similar to writing a sweeping rant about how
much a new game sucks and is useless and will never come to anything, just from an
early beta preview
15:54 < aiju> fucking bikeshed arguments
15:54 < skelterjohn> as "it's hard, so we'll just make our programmers lives
harder"
15:54 < skelterjohn> when in reality it was "it's hard, so we're going to
think about it to make sure we do it right"
15:55 < exch> important difference indeed
15:55 < skelterjohn> and he called that first interpretation the "new jersey
approach"
15:55 < skelterjohn> to which i take offense
15:56 < skelterjohn> being a new jersian
15:56 < erus_> haha
15:56 < aiju> Aside from it being Yet Another Squiggly Brace Languag [...]
15:56 < exch> not even sure what that means.  but then, im not from new
jersey ;p
15:56 < aiju> he's a fucking idiot if he can't seperate bikeshed from real
arguments
15:56 < skelterjohn> i had never heard it before
15:57 < aiju> Why is an array and a slice of an array a fundamentally
different type?  Arrays are value types, for example, and slices are reference
types.
15:57 < aiju> not everything he says is outdated, he's just clueless
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15:58 < skelterjohn> it's hard to take a review seriously when there are
basic factual errors
15:58 < skelterjohn> (reminds me of some academic reviews i've read
recently)
15:58 < aiju> 16:57 < exch> not even sure what that means.  but then,
im not from new jersey ;p
15:58 < aiju> it's a reference to the "worse is better" paper
15:58 < exch> ah
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15:59 < skelterjohn> still not sure why that gets "new jersey"
15:59 < aiju> contrasting MIT ("THE RIGHT THING, MEIN FÜHRER") and New
Jersey style ("dude, it was easier for us to implement")
15:59 < aiju> skelterjohn: actually it's a positive attribute
16:00 < aiju> skelterjohn: and it's called so because Bell Labs is situated
in New Jersey
16:00 < skelterjohn> ah, thanks
16:00 < skelterjohn> that's the connection i was looking for
16:00 < aiju> and UNIX is archetypical new jersey style
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16:01 < yebyen> http://pastie.org/1545354
16:01 < yebyen> now that's pretty
16:01 < yebyen> and it compiles
16:01 < skelterjohn> always a plus
16:02 < aiju> yebyen: function returning function pointers?  lol
16:03 < aiju> reminds me of three star programming
16:03 < yebyen> the best one is actually...
16:03 < yebyen> container["wrapped"].(func()
Passthrough)()(container["name"].(string))
16:04 < yebyen> i forgot to write it first
16:04 < exch> :P
16:04 < yebyen> what to call func() Passthrough
16:05 < yebyen> is that a functor?
16:05 < yebyen> heh
16:05 < aiju> reminds me of K programming
16:05 < aiju> http://aiju.phicode.de/code/k/tictactoe
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16:08 < yebyen> oops
16:08 < yebyen> you cannot simply declare an anonymous function by uttering
the type that you defined for it
16:11 < yebyen> https://gist.github.com/818727
16:11 < yebyen> line 18...  heh
16:12 < skelterjohn> i dunno, maybe that should be allowed
16:12 < skelterjohn> it certainly makes sense
16:13 < exch> if Functor was a #DEFINE, then yes
16:13 < yebyen> if there were really parameters in Functor though
16:13 < skelterjohn> ah, true
16:13 < yebyen> instead of just being a function dispenser
16:13 < yebyen> how could you name the parameters
16:14 < yebyen> this is really neat though
16:14 < yebyen> i'm glad i took the day off work to look at this
16:15 < yebyen> now, to make something...
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16:39 < erus_> s(a,b)int*a,*b
16:39 < erus_> wtf is that valid c?
16:40 < skelterjohn> no idea
16:40 < twolfe18> doesn't look like it to me
16:40 < twolfe18> s(a,b);int*a,*b would
16:41 < erus_> s(a,b)int*a,*b; { }
16:43 < twolfe18> maybe a closure?
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16:44 < niemeyer> erus_: If s is a macro, it can be anything
16:45 < wrtp> it's old style C
16:46 < wrtp> parameters were traditionally declared outside the function
header
16:46 < wrtp> pre-ANSI
16:46 < wrtp> (but still valid, i think)
16:46 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error:
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16:46 < erus_> http://aiju.phicode.de/code/sort
16:47 < erus_> http://pastie.org/1545562
16:47 < aiju> yes, that's valid C
16:47 < aiju> you never read UNIX code, did you :P
16:48 < erus_> does it work?
16:48 < aiju> yes
16:49 < erus_> what does it do?  how can i test it
16:49 < aiju> sort a list of numbers
16:49 < aiju> pass it a pointer to the first and the last element of an
array of numbers
16:49 < aiju> (last element, not the element beyond it)
16:49 < erus_> ok cool
16:50 < aiju> array of ints, that is
16:52 < skelterjohn> why would anyone write code like that?
16:52 < aiju> skelterjohn: for fun
16:52 < skelterjohn> oh
16:52 < aiju> i wrote that after i discovered the comma operator
16:52 < skelterjohn> the comma operator...?
16:52 < aiju> a,b,c evaluates a, b and c and has the value of c
16:53 < aiju> printf("%d\n", (i++,j++,k++)); prints the value of k and
increases i, j and k
16:53 < erus_> well it works
16:53 < aiju> it has some actual uses
16:53 < aiju> like while(c = getchar(), c != EOF)
16:53 < twolfe18> o snap, that is useful
16:54 < niemeyer> Familiar too ;)
16:54 < aiju> of course it also makes a great obfuscation tool
16:55 < aiju> like all that u shuffling i do in that source code
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17:01 < fzzbt> why can't i add methods to exported non-local structs, eg.
template.Template?
17:02 < fzzbt> always get "cannot define new methods on non-local type
template.Template"
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17:03 < fzzbt> is there a way around
17:05 < exch> you can 'alias' the template and define methods on that.  type
MyTemplate template.Template; func(m *MyTemplate) F() { ...  }
17:06 < exch> not really an alias though.  MyTemplate is a different type
entirely, but it should do what you need
17:06 < fzzbt> exch: yes, that works, but then i would have to define all of
the methods and not just the new one i want to add..
17:07 < exch> why?
17:07 < fzzbt> i dont know why, it just doesn't compile
17:07 < exch> var m MyTemplate; m.MyOwnMethod();
template.Template(m).SomeExistingMethod() might do the trick
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17:16 < fzzbt> that's not very elegant
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17:17 < exch> you can try embedding the existing template in your own
template struct.  That won't be any more 'elegant' though.  You simply can't
define new methods on types in other packages
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17:30 < fzzbt> but im defining my own with "type MyTemplate
template.Template".  I don't understand why there is such a restriction..
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17:33 < fzzbt> why m.SomeExistingMethod() couldn't work off the bat too?  in
OOP languages you could inherit class and add methods to it too as you please
without redefining all the methods of the ancestor classes.
17:34 < aiju> fzzbt: inheritance was explicitly avoided in Go
17:34 < wrtp> fzzbt: you can do type MyType struct {*tempate.Template} if
you want the template methods too
17:34 < exch> Go doesnt have type hierarchies like you see in C++/java/etc
17:35 < wrtp> it's not too far away - you just can't pass it to something
expecting a plain *template.Template
17:35 < wrtp> but that's a good thing, because how could they know about
your methods, which might break invariants of the original
17:36 < wrtp> if two packages both defined a method "Foo" on
template.Template, how would the system decide which Foo to use?
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18:02 < skelterjohn> i'm trying to think of the best way to handle
something, maybe someone will have a suggestion
18:02 < skelterjohn> goinstall recently added cgo support
18:03 < skelterjohn> using special comments in the source to indicate what
libs should be linked
18:03 < skelterjohn> so, i want to have gb also support this
18:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/U6HDEo by [Robert Griesemer] in 4 subdirs of
go/ -- go/printer: remove notion of "Styler", remove HTML mode
18:03 < skelterjohn> so far, so good - i don't suspect there will be a
problem getting gb to correctly build packages that work with goinstall
18:03 < skelterjohn> but what about things like runtime?
18:03 < skelterjohn> the runtime package is kind of crazy
18:03 < skelterjohn> if i just have gb invoke a makefile, that works fine
18:04 < skelterjohn> but how can gb know that it can't possibly do the cgo
process with the runtime package?
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18:12 < wrtp> skelterjohn: you could always have runtime as a special case
:-)
18:12 < wrtp> it'd be a hack but...
18:12 < skelterjohn> it'd be nice to avoid special cases
18:12 < wrtp> of course
18:12 < aiju> the runtime is really crazy
18:12 < aiju> it uses hacks deep inside the compiler
18:12 < skelterjohn> well, if runtime is the only pkg in $GOROOT/src/pkg
that needs this consideration, then maybe it's possible
18:12 < wrtp> that's the whole purpose of the runtime...
18:13 < wrtp> it is definitely some kind of a special case.
18:13 < wrtp> but can gb deal with os too?
18:13 < wrtp> i.e.  places where you've got arch-specific code
18:13 < wrtp> and what about places with assembly code?
18:13 < skelterjohn> it looks at _$GOOS in the file names
18:13 < skelterjohn> if there is assembly code it invokes a makefile
18:14 < skelterjohn> but since os is pure go, gb builds it fine
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18:17 < skelterjohn> looks like the GOROOT packages not in the runtime
directory are all pretty simple
18:17 < skelterjohn> in most cases they just build an extra .s file
18:18 < skelterjohn> so perhaps a runtime exception is a good way to go
18:18 * aiju will place foo_linux.go in all his programs with no real meaning
18:18 < aiju> just to confuse gogb!
18:18 < skelterjohn> then you can type gibberish into your makefile
18:18 < skelterjohn> just to confuse make!
18:18 < skelterjohn> :)
18:19 < aiju> make at least doesn't try to outsmart me
18:20 < skelterjohn> gb works by using your directory structure as its build
instructions
18:20 < skelterjohn> it's a design choice
18:20 < skelterjohn> seems like a reasonable one
18:22 < skelterjohn> i just get tired of 1) specifying everything twice
(once so i can keep track of things, then once again to tell make how to build it)
and 2) not being able to figure out how other people's code works until i read the
makefile
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18:24 < aiju> i always thought GCC was slow
18:24 < aiju> now i'm working with Xilinx tools
18:24 < aiju> it takes literally minutes to compile 100 lines of code
18:25 < nsf> omg
18:25 < aiju> ok, Verilog is a bit more complex to compile than C
18:25 < nsf> is it written in python or something?
18:25 < nsf> ah, not a C
18:25 < aiju> but just *parsing* the syntax takes longer than to build all
of Go
18:26 < aiju> nsf: Java
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18:27 < nsf> should be pretty fast
18:27 < aiju> while the tool is stil displaying its current version, Go has
already compiled a ten times larger program
18:27 < aiju> (all the tools are super verbose)
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18:27 < aiju> and just as expected, the moon phase is not right for RS-232
to work
18:28 < aiju> okay, i just got the baudrate wrong
18:32 < aiju> i really wish Verilog was more like Go
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18:40 < rm445> A hardware description language isn't quite the same thing as
a programming language is it?  I vaguely thought hardware language compilers
(synthesisers?) had to do a lot of hard work to figure out the hardware.
18:40 < aiju> rm445: they have to
18:40 < aiju> there is quite a lot of work involved in compiling code for
FPGAs
18:40 < aiju> they have to worry about LUT placement and what not
18:41 < aiju> still, that's no excuse for astronomical time to read in a 100
line file
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18:53 < erus`> skelterjohn: go-gb isnt building
18:54 < erus`> pkg.go:542: undefined: BuildCgoPackage
18:54 < skelterjohn> fixed
18:54 < skelterjohn> ooh no i didn't update the makefile
18:55 < skelterjohn> now fixed :)
18:55 < erus`> perfick
18:55 < erus`> can it build itself now?
18:56 < erus`> yes
18:56 < erus`> i never tried before...
18:57 < erus`> whats this cgo stuff then eh?  eh?
18:59 < InaVegt> cgo is the glue between c and go
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18:59 < erus`> i know that but skelterjohn said he wouldnt use it because
its not standard yet
19:00 < erus`> if i keep rotating a matrix will the axis get out of sync?
19:00 < aiju> erus`: probably
19:00 < aiju> when working with floating point numbers, always expect the
unexpected
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19:01 < erus`> hmmm whats a solution?
19:02 < erus`> save total rotation in a quaternion maybe
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19:05 < plexdev> http://is.gd/abB23Y by [Roger Peppe] in go/src/pkg/rpc/ --
rpc: make more tolerant of errors.
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19:17 < skelterjohn> erus`: take a look at the BuildCGoPackage function in
cgo.go :)
19:17 < skelterjohn> it's a placeholder for future work
19:17 < skelterjohn> but goinstall can do cgo stuff now, so i'm going to try
to work it in
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19:26 < erus`> my code looks so nice and clean now but it runs twice as slow
:/
19:26 < temoto> erus`, the usual dilemma.
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19:27 < erus`> I'll have to wrap it at some point
19:27 < erus`> check if value allready calculated
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19:34 < dforsyth_> are the build scripts done in bash for a reason?
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19:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/rCGy1H by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
syscall: do not use NULL for zero-length read, write
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19:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/CyO0RC by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of go/ --
runtime: new allocation strategy for amd64
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20:00 < erus`> When your nasty bug turns out to be YOU using YOUR api
wrong...
20:01 * erus` is so dumb
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20:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/zxiYOz by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ --
runtime: fix memory allocation on 386
20:10 < madari_> hmm
20:10 < madari_> I wonder which one is supposed to be the right
functionality:
20:11 < aiju> 21:02 < erus`> When your nasty bug turns out to be YOU
using YOUR api wrong...
20:11 < madari_> a) json.Marshal documentation states: By default the
object's key name is the struct field name converted to lower case.
20:11 < aiju> When your really nasty bug turns out to be a missing "|" in
1000 lines of code after days of debugging
20:11 < madari_> b) implementation does not do this
20:11 < aiju> madari_: philosophical question: which one is right?
20:12 < madari_> that's what I'm asking...
20:12 < aiju> if this were true, i'd file a bug report or something
20:12 < aiju> or post on the mailing list
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20:12 < madari_> are there any googlers lurking around here usually?
20:14 < madari_> aiju: yeah I'm creating an issue right now
20:14 < erus`> Andrew gourand said he lurks in here
20:14 < erus`> probly got the name wrong there
20:14 < madari_> :) ok
20:16 < aiju> Go-urand
20:16 < aiju> what an appropriate name
20:18 < erus`> urand when prounced with a cockney accent sounds like "you
'round?" (which means 'are you around') and hes not.  Just a coincidence?  you
decide...
20:18 < aiju> hahaha
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20:19 < rl> madari_: you looking for someone to file bugs with?  :p
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20:34 < madari_> rl: no, that was not my intention.  i was actually hoping
for some insight e.g.  "json.Marshal should indeed lowercase the fields' names" so
that I could fix it myself.  But since I'm not sure what is the correct behaviour
I did create an issue about conflicting implementation and documentation
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20:44 < wrtp> madari_: is the problem that json.Marshal isn't correctly
lowercasing the fields?
20:45 < madari> wrtp: yup.  and I didn't see any "failed efforts" to do in
the source either so that made me think that maybe the documentation is outdated
or wrong.  or maybe the other way around
20:47 < madari> but I created an issue, so we'll see what's the correct
behaviour when someone responds to it
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20:51 < wrtp> madari: looks like a bug to me
20:52 < wrtp> madari: but it's easy to work around for the time being
20:52 < madari> yeah, but tagging is ugly
20:52 < madari> :)
20:52 < madari> I'm not really having any major issues with that, just
happened to notice it
20:53 < madari> Also, if it indeed is a bug, then the quality of the tests
aren't so good :)
20:53 < rl> Maybe the tests are testing the wrong thing
20:53 < rl> it happens
20:53 < rl> :p
20:54 < madari> :)
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20:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/JGunNp by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/codelab/wiki/
-- codelab: update due to recent changes in go/printer
20:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/GJBe3A by [Rob Pike] in go/src/ -- run.bash:
must make codelab before we can test it.
20:58 < rl> but what happens if you have both upper and lowercase members
where case is the only differentiator?
20:58 < rl> or does it only export uppercased/public members?
20:58 < madari> unexported fields are not marshaled
20:59 < madari> afaik
20:59 < rl> ok
20:59 < madari> but I suppose if you had fields "Foobar" and "FoObAr" it
would lead to something like {"foobar":..., "foobar":...}
20:59 < madari> but again, that's just a guess
21:00 < rl> how would that work?
21:00 < rl> but then again if you have Foobar and FoObAr members you
probably have bigger problems :p
21:00 < madari> :)
21:01 < madari> in my opinion, the behaviour described in the documentation
sounds good: if the struct field has no tag, then lower case it and use that as
the object's key name, otherwise use the tag
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21:03 < madari> the current implementation goes a little bit like this: if
f.Tag != "" { e.string(f.Tag) } else { e.string(f.Name) }
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21:08 < rl> sounds inconvenient if you're camelcasing though
21:09 < madari> yup.  but the thing is, neither behavior is "wrong".
luckily we don't have to be the judges :)
21:14 < plexdev> http://is.gd/SDVgM8 by [Ken Thompson] in go/src/cmd/5g/ --
peep: bug fix
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21:22 < TheMue> Hmm, something is broken.  I send a channel over a channel
of channels.  That's ok.  But inside the select I receive a nil.
21:22 < aiju> are you making all the channels?
21:22 < TheMue> yep
21:23 < TheMue> and it's not that I try to receive from nil
21:23 < jnwhiteh> is the channel getting closed?
21:24 < TheMue> error says I try to send to nil and debugging (with print)
shows, that the received channel I want to send data with is received as nil
21:24 < erus`> paste bin
21:24 < rl> madari: could be, but out of curiosity what's the benefit or the
reasoning behind lowercasing the values?
21:24 < TheMue> jnwhiteh: Has been an idea too, but no, I removed all closes
21:24 < jnwhiteh> can you range instead of select?
21:24 < rl> i mean the member names, not values
21:25 < TheMue> jnwhiteh: No, I've got two channels here
21:25 < TheMue> jnwhiteh: And it already worked
21:25 < jnwhiteh> I mean you can panic when you get the nil value, and see
what the sender was doing
21:25 < jnwhiteh> but that's not terribly useful
21:26 < TheMue> jnwhiteh: Just repeated the tests after the last release
21:26 < jnwhiteh> ah, not sure then
21:26 < TheMue> mom
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21:29 < TheMue> Hmm, somehow pastbin didn't work
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21:30 < TheMue> It's here too:
http://code.google.com/p/tideland-cgl/source/browse/cglmon/cglmonetm.go
21:31 < TheMue> Line 110 sends the channel, line 223 receives it.
21:31 < TheMue> *sigh* Should repeat all unit tests after each Go update
21:31 < wrtp> can you distill it into less lines?
21:31 < wrtp> i bet it's a bug in your code :-)
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21:32 < TheMue> wrtp: Maybe you're right ;)
21:32 < TheMue> It already worked, no change since October
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21:34 < TheMue> Btw, already removed the explicit close() statements, no
change
21:35 < wrtp> TheMue: at least make it into an independent main program.
then we can test it.
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21:48 < madari> rl: that's not an easy question so I'll pass it :D
21:50 < madari> rl: I'm looking forward to see how the googlers decide to
resolve it
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22:16 < plexdev> http://is.gd/3qSIlh by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/doc/codelab/wiki/ -- srcextract: HTML-escape output if so desired
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22:29 < vbh> If I collect the return value of a "func() chan int" in a local
variable, and that local variable goes out of scope, does that close the channel ?
(the callee can still be pushing data to the channel)
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22:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cFCR2v by [Rob Pike] in 9 subdirs of go/ --
template: reverse order of arguments to Execute
22:34 < KirkMcDonald> vbh: No, it does not close the channel.
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22:36 < vbh> KirkMcDonald: ok, so the sender will be blocked forever then ?
22:36 < KirkMcDonald> Yes.
22:40 < vbh> KirkMcDonald: I was trying out the "sieve" example from the
tutorial and missed the "for{}" loop in the go-routine that chains filters
together
22:40 < vbh> KirkMcDonald: That would lead to just one filter being
initialized, at which point, the go routine would finish execution
22:40 < vbh> KirkMcDonald: however, I get a : "2throw: all goroutines are
asleep - deadlock!" runtime-panic
22:42 < vbh> KirkMcDonald: Was just curious why it panic'd ..  my guess was
that the output channel was local to that routine and went out of scope
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22:52 < vbh> KirkMcDonald: never mind ..  I think I know the answer ..
thanks for your help
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23:13 < fenicks> hello
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23:15 < rl> madari: tbh it seems almost counter intuitive; you have to know
that the name changes when it's marshaled.  which you can know from reading the
doc of course, but if there's no good reason to lowercase it why not keep it
simple.
23:15 < rl> I'm sure the guys who wrote the library had the same thoughts
though, and for whatever reason decided there was some benefit to lowercasing it
23:15 < rl> Which I'd be curious to hear
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23:20 < plexdev> http://is.gd/OeNQQV by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: optimizations: don't call Write for 0-length data
23:20 < plexdev> http://is.gd/yW0T36 by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/bytes/ -- buffer.go: minor optimization, expanded comment
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 10 00:00:05 2011