--- Log opened Sun Apr 03 00:00:30 2011
--- Day changed Sun Apr 03 2011
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00:32 < ljs> so I have this crazy struct -
00:32 < ljs> type T10 struct {
00:32 < ljs> x struct {
00:32 < ljs> y ***struct {
00:32 < ljs> z *struct {
00:32 < ljs> Next *T11
00:32 < ljs> }
00:32 < ljs> }
00:32 < ljs> }
00:32 < ljs> }
00:32 < ljs>
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00:32 < ljs> ack sorry, should have pastebin'd that
00:33 < ljs> I want to construct a zero'd variable using a compound literal,
or just hey *somehow*, how do I do it?  :)
00:37 < ljs> a less horribly convoluted way of putting it is - how do I
construct types with structs declared within them?
00:38 < ljs> well, with fields of anonymous struct type.
00:41 < KirkMcDonald> With great care?  :-)
00:41 < ljs> :)
00:41 < ljs> ok I'm getting somewhere with var tn struct { Next *T11 }
00:41 < ljs> well, var foo struct { Next *T11 } should I say :)
00:42 < ljs> and yes, there's a reason for this...  a test for a
particularly nasty edge-case I'm patching
00:43 < ljs> not (just) masochism
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00:49 < ljs> phew ok did it :)
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01:36 < bluehex> Hi I was in here earlier complaining that my build was
failing on OSX 10.6.6....  I tried re-cloning the repo to a new place and building
but that didn't help.  What finally did work was to delete all of the binaries
from my $GOBIN directory and build again.
01:37 < bluehex> Details here if anyone is interested:
01:37 < bluehex> http://pastie.org/1748002
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01:42 < katakuna> whats the most efficient way to implement 'return
(in.split(" ")[0].charAt(0) == 'P') ? "PING" : in.split(" ")[1];' in Go, if/else
maybe?
01:43 < bluehex> Oh that's suprising, I had $GOBIN set to /usr/local/bin/go
when I did the build...  A lot of build scripts ended up there but the products
went to $GOHOME/bin/ did this change at some point?
01:43 < bluehex> I'm updating my $GOBIN to $HOME/go/bin but do I need to
copy the files that got put into /usr/local/bin/go into there too?
01:45 < bluehex> Nevermind me I think I'm confused about something.
01:46 < bluehex> Nothing got put into what I had set as $GOBIN
(/usr/local/bin/go) at all.  It was empty I just got confused.
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02:00 < str1ngs> bluehex: you dont realy need GOBIN if you plan to use
GOROOT/bin
02:00 < bluehex> I see.  I should just put $GOROOT/bin on my path then?
02:01 < str1ngs> that works yep
02:01 < bluehex> And I can delete $GOBIN because make files etc don't rely
on it being set?
02:01 < str1ngs> GOBIN is mainly used for edge cases where you say might
when bins in /usr/local/bin
02:02 < bluehex> Oh alright.  That makes things more clear.  Thanks much.
02:02 < str1ngs> np dont mind all the typos :P
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05:24 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Kepk60 by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/src/ --
Make.pkg: increase test timeout to 120 seconds.
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09:37 < nsf> I'm wondering why can't we fix our linkers for better "modules"
model support
09:38 < nsf> for example it would be nice to be able to refer a symbol in a
concrete file instead of simply an abstract symbol
09:39 < nsf> that way there won't be a requirement of having unique symbol
names
09:40 < nsf> and as far as I understand Go (gc compiler) does something like
that
09:41 < nsf> symbol renaming at link time or something
09:41 < nsf> based on a path of the library file
09:41 < nsf> but it only works for static linking, dynamic linkers are
another problem
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09:42 < nsf> :\
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09:46 < taruti> Has anyone got a more efficient RSA-implementation lying
around?
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09:49 < nsf> uhm, why Go spec says that: "The grammar is compact and
regular"
09:49 < nsf> is Go's grammar regular?
09:50 < nsf> or is it other kind of regular?  :)
09:50 < nsf> lol
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10:12 < zimsim> why is it so that the built-in string() func doesnt accept
an object of `type foo []byte`
10:13 < zimsim> wheras `func String(b []byte) {}` accepts an object of foo
10:14 < nsf> string it not a built-in function
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10:14 < nsf> string() is a conversion operation
10:14 < KirkMcDonald> string([]byte(blah))
10:14 < nsf> I guess these two cases use different rules
10:14 < nsf> yeah, that would work
10:15 < zimsim> right, I still dont understand why these have different
rules
10:15 < nsf> because spec describes a lot of special cases about conversion
to/from strings
10:16 < nsf> and first cases uses "assignable" property
10:16 < nsf> case*
10:16 < nsf> oops
10:16 < nsf> I mean second case
10:16 < nsf> function call
10:16 < nsf> type foo []byte is assignable to []byte
10:16 < nsf> but foo is not convertable to string
10:16 < nsf> []byte is
10:17 * nsf thinks that type system of any language is the most confusing part
10:18 < nsf> I'm writing one and I'm freaking out :)
10:19 < nsf> oh, btw I have a question
10:19 < nsf> what would be the type of this expression:
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10:19 < nsf> var a, b *int; c := a - b;
10:19 < nsf> if Go had pointer arithmetic :)
10:20 < nsf> in C and C++ it's 'int'
10:20 < zimsim> ehm.
10:20 < nsf> which is a suprise for me
10:20 < nsf> because on x86_64 pointer is larger than int
10:21 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: There is the uintptr type.
10:21 < nsf> or well, maybe it's actually ptrdiff_t or something
10:21 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: unsigned type cannot be used as a result of
subtraction
10:21 < nsf> for obvious reasons
10:21 < KirkMcDonald> Point.
10:21 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Now, when you say that a pointer is larger than
int.
10:22 < KirkMcDonald> Are you talking about a Go int or a C int?
10:22 < nsf> yeah, on x86_64 sizeof(*void) is 64 and sizeof(int) is 32
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10:22 < nsf> C
10:22 < nsf> and sorry for mixing type syntax
10:22 < nsf> I use *void instead of C's void* :)
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10:22 < zimsim> But in Go. If a := []byte{"foo"} and var b Foo =
[]byte{"foo"}
10:23 < zimsim> are they considered to be equal?
10:23 < zimsim> if Foo is a type Foo []byte
10:23 < nsf> zimsim: equaility is not defined for slices
10:23 < nsf> and types are different
10:23 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: The C type would indeed be ptrdiff_t.
10:23 < nsf> if one type is named and other is not
10:23 < nsf> they are always different
10:23 < KirkMcDonald> In Go, I'd just use int.
10:23 < zimsim> ok
10:23 < nsf> but these two types are assignable to each other
10:24 < zimsim> thanks
10:24 < zimsim> right
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10:24 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: well, I see, I have a dilemma: const int or int
10:24 < zimsim> I need to re-read that part of the spec
10:24 < nsf> const int in my lang is like an abstract int
10:24 < nsf> it can be converted implicitly to any other int
10:24 < nsf> and 'int' is a named type, concrete type
10:24 < nsf> so, for example:
10:24 < nsf> type Offset int
10:25 < nsf> var c Offset = a - b;
10:25 < aiju> nsf: you have const?
10:25 < nsf> aiju: like in Go
10:25 < nsf> const int is an abstract type
10:25 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: This sort of const implies that it is a
compile-time value.
10:25 < nsf> var c Offset = a - b; // is ok if typeof(a - b) == const int
10:25 < nsf> forget about meaning of 'const'
10:25 < nsf> it's just a name for type
10:26 < nsf> read it as "abstract int"
10:26 < nsf> the dilemma is: abstract int or int
10:26 < nsf> abstract int can be converted to any other integer type
10:26 < nsf> int cannot
10:26 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: It depends on what a and b are.
10:26 < nsf> pointers
10:26 < KirkMcDonald> Whose values are only known at runtime?
10:26 < nsf> doesn't matter
10:27 < KirkMcDonald> Either it does or I don't understand what you mean by
"abstract."
10:27 < nsf> ok, again :) just for the sake of being able to convert pointer
difference to any other integer type without implicit cast
10:28 < nsf> for example the result of == binary operation is abstract bool
10:28 < nsf> type MyBool bool
10:28 < nsf> var x MyBool = true == true
10:28 < nsf> works just fine
10:28 < nsf> it it was 'bool', a concrete type
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10:28 < nsf> it's an error
10:29 < nsf> because you can't assign one named type to other
10:29 < nsf> same question for pointer difference
10:29 < nsf> should this be an error or not:
10:29 < nsf> type Offset int
10:29 < KirkMcDonald> And what is the representation of an "abstract bool"?
Does it differ from a regular bool?
10:29 < nsf> var x Offset = a - b; // a and b are pointers
10:30 < nsf> on a compilation stage it gets a real type
10:30 < nsf> but can be a regular bool or any other bool :)
10:30 < nsf> like Go's abstract integer constant
10:30 < nsf> can be any kind of integer
10:30 < nsf> const A = 10 // abstract int
10:31 < nsf> var x uint8 = A // now A gets real type 'uint8'
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10:31 < nsf> I don't know, maybe it sounds confusing :)
10:32 < nsf> even without consts Go has abstract integer types
10:32 < aiju> i'd say you're overcomplicating things, but i'm not sure
10:32 < nsf> var a := 1 + 5
10:32 < nsf> here 1 + 5 expression has an abstract int type
10:33 < nsf> aiju: maybe, a little bit
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10:33 < nsf> but it feels pretty simple to me
10:33 < nsf> the use of these abstract types
10:34 < nsf> I mean what's the type of (5 > 1) and what's the type of
(uint8(5) > uint8(1))
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10:34 < nsf> are they different?
10:35 < nsf> var a, b = 5, 1
10:35 < nsf> and what's the type of (a > b)?
10:35 < nsf> I use a single "abstract bool" type
10:35 < nsf> let's see what Go does
10:36 < aiju> can't you simply make all comparisons bool?
10:36 < nsf> test.go:8: cannot use a > b (type bool) as type MyBool in
assignment
10:36 < nsf> Go uses concrete 'bool' type
10:36 < nsf> this is invalid in Go:
10:36 < nsf> type MyBool bool
10:36 < nsf> var c MyBool = 5 > 1
10:36 < aiju> uh hum
10:37 < nsf> I'm not sure that it's fair :)
10:37 < nsf> it's simple, yeah
10:37 < aiju> i doubt it's common enough to justify adding another type just
for the sake of this...
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10:38 < nsf> but it's a matter of common sense to me
10:38 < nsf> like how can you answer the question, what's the type of '>'
binary expression
10:38 < nsf> it's not a concrete type for sure
10:38 < nsf> and well, Go has two constants with abstract bool type
10:38 < nsf> 'true' and 'false'
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10:39 < nsf> var c MyBool = true // is valid
10:39 < aiju> hmmm
10:39 < nsf> I'm just unifying all that stuff
10:40 < nsf> why (5 > 1) can't use the same abstract bool type?
10:40 < aiju> makes sense ...
10:40 < nsf> exactly
10:40 < nsf> the same thing for pointers subtraction
10:40 < nsf> the result of that subtraction is not a pointer type
10:41 < nsf> it's an unknown type
10:41 < aiju> uintptr
10:41 < nsf> we can't refer Go here, Go doesn't have pointer arithmetic :)
10:41 < nsf> I'm referring C mostly
10:41 < nsf> in C there is a ptrdiff_t type
10:41 < aiju> really?
10:41 < nsf> which is a signed type of size: sizeof(*void)
10:42 < nsf> and that is the result of pointer subtraction
10:42 < nsf> I guess, let's see what standard says
10:42 < nsf> but it makes sense
10:42 < nsf> because (a - b) can be negative
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10:42 < nsf> if a < b
10:42 < aiju> i think all the *_t stuff is in the standard
10:42 < aiju> intptr then!
10:43 < nsf> I have a better idea
10:43 < nsf> how about defining int and uint as integer types of a pointer
size
10:43 < nsf> in Go it's true for x86 and x86_64 anyway
10:43 < nsf> not sure about arm
10:43 < aiju> uh no?
10:43 < nsf> no?
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10:44 < aiju> test.go:6: constant 4294967296 overflows int
10:44 < aiju> 6g
10:44 < nsf> interesting
10:44 < aiju> int is 32 bit on all current architectures
10:46 < nsf> then I don't see a point of having the int type :)
10:46 < nsf> "future architectures" is not an argument for me
10:47 < aiju> the PDP-11 C type system made lots of sense to this respect
10:48 < aiju> char is (signed) byte, int is word (16 bit) and long is 32 bit
10:49 < aiju> i'd be interested how things were on the (32 bit) VAX
10:49 < aiju> i could very well imagine int to stay 16 bit for compatbility
reasons
10:50 < nsf> I'm wondering is it makes sense to define 'int' as a pointer
sized int type
10:52 < nsf> because having a separate int type which is 32 bits on every
platform at the moment
10:53 < nsf> doesn't make sense
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10:53 < nsf> hm, D has no variable sized integers at all
10:54 < photron> nsf: so you want to recreate the long type problem from C?
10:54 < KirkMcDonald> Correct.
10:54 < KirkMcDonald> But you can fake them.
10:55 < nsf> photron: what's the problem?
10:55 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: in Go you can pretty much do the same, because it
is possible to redefine 'int' and 'uint' on a package scope!
10:55 < nsf> why can't I simply make these as aliases for int32 and uint32
10:56 < nsf> if user wants a 64 bit int
10:56 < nsf> type int int64
10:56 < nsf> done..
10:58 < nsf> or a compiler switch
10:58 < nsf> since uint and int are implementation specific
10:58 < nsf> -int-as-int64-alias
10:58 < nsf> done
10:58 < nsf> :)
10:58 < nsf> weird argument to me
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10:58 < nsf> having these int and uint
10:58 < nsf> I don't get it
10:59 < nsf> maybe it's some kind of zen that is not available to me
10:59 < nsf> I don't know :)
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11:02 < nsf> I think I've just decided to make int as an alias to int32 and
uint as an alias to uint32
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11:03 < nsf> until someone will be able to convince me that this a bad idea
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11:04 < nsf> anyways, it feels like I'm talking too much about my lang
instead of Go on this channel, so anyone who's interested, welcome to: #crawlang
11:04 < jessta_> nsf: the reason int is variable sized is that some
operations are faster at different sizes on different archs
11:05 < nsf> jessta_: at the moment as aiju points out, int is int32 on all
arch supported by Go
11:05 < nsf> archs*
11:05 < jessta_> at the moment
11:05 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: What is the type of an array index?
11:06 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: what do you mean?
11:06 < nsf> there are two types in Go
11:06 < nsf> I mean abstractly
11:06 < nsf> one that is a storage
11:06 < nsf> for slice size/capacity
11:06 < nsf> and other is the type that is allowed to be used as an index
for array indexing
11:06 < nsf> what are you interested in?
11:07 < nsf> Go allows any integer type to be used as index for an array
11:07 < nsf> e.g.
11:07 < nsf> var x uint8 = 5
11:07 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Let me put this another way.  How many bits are
in the type used for an array index?
11:07 < nsf> var a [5]int;
11:07 < nsf> a[x] is valid
11:07 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: uhm..
11:07 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Also: What type does len(foo) return?
11:08 < nsf> "How many bits are in the type used for an array index?"
11:08 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: I am explaining one reason to have this
variable-width integer type.
11:08 < nsf> that's weird
11:08 < nsf> in Go array has its size as a part of its type
11:08 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: It will match the type used for indexes and
lengths for the platform.
11:09 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: I don't understand you question anyway
11:09 < nsf> len(foo) can be a compile time constant
11:09 < nsf> if foo is an array
11:09 < nsf> your*
11:09 < KirkMcDonald> Bah, it is 4 AM.
11:10 < KirkMcDonald> I may not be expressing myself clearly.
11:10 < nsf> so you're talking about slice
11:10 < nsf> or array?
11:11 < nsf> to me index type should be an integer which satisfies the
following condition: sizeof(<array index integer>) == sizeof(*void)
11:11 < nsf> because even in practice
11:11 < nsf> index cannot be larger than the maximum addressable value on
that machine
11:11 < KirkMcDonald> Yes, that.
11:12 < nsf> and in theory maximum integer is much smaller anyway
11:12 < KirkMcDonald> This is what size_t does in C.
11:12 < nsf> yeah
11:12 < nsf> but by no means it answers the question
11:12 < nsf> what's the point of having an 'int' type
11:12 < jessta_> nsf: arrays have their size as part of their type because
otherwise you wouldn't know how big they are.
11:12 < nsf> it doesn't tied to any definition
11:12 < nsf> jessta_: I know that
11:13 < aiju> slices can't have more than 2^32 elements
11:13 < aiju> even on amd64 where there is sufficient memory
11:13 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Perhaps the notion is that integer operations are
most efficient when done using whatever the platform's native word size is?
11:13 < nsf> aiju: slice uses int in fact
11:13 < aiju> nsf: exactly
11:13 < nsf> (2^31-1) is more like valid
11:13 < aiju> oh right
11:13 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: hm, ok
11:14 < KirkMcDonald> I am reminded of the move in Python from using int for
all index types to using Py_ssize_t.
11:14 < nsf> then it's just broken x86 hardware
11:14 < KirkMcDonald> (Which happened in 2.5.)
11:14 < napsy> can I get the structure name in runtime and then later
convert the name to that type?
11:14 < aiju> nsf: 32-bit operations are more efficient than 64-bit
operations on amd64 afaik
11:14 < nsf> aiju: that's what I'm talking about :)
11:15 < nsf> it sounds illogical though
11:15 < aiju> many things about amd64 are illogical or outright crazy
11:15 < nsf> 64 bit hardware can do 32 bit arithmetic faster
11:15 < KirkMcDonald> Mind, this included things like the maximum length of
strings in Python.
11:15 < KirkMcDonald> And people actually wanted strings longer than 2 GB, I
gather.
11:15 < KirkMcDonald> Or whatever.
11:15 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: but that's the problem of language with built-in
types
11:15 < nsf> I don't have any :)
11:16 < nsf> languages*
11:16 < nsf> I mean complex built-in types
11:16 < nsf> like strings or slices or maps
11:16 < KirkMcDonald> So, what, you're emulating C++?
11:16 < nsf> C in fact
11:16 < nsf> at the moment I'm not even targetting "advanced" features like
interfaces
11:16 < nsf> or methods
11:16 < nsf> :)
11:16 < KirkMcDonald> C had built-in strings just fine!  Heh heh.
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11:16 < nsf> it has string literals
11:17 < KirkMcDonald> And char*!
11:17 < nsf> which have type const char*
11:17 < nsf> and that's just a pointer
11:17 < nsf> ok, I got the "word size" argument for int
11:17 < nsf> the problem is
11:17 < nsf> that it matters only for microoptimizations
11:17 < nsf> am I right?
11:18 < KirkMcDonald> And also the using-int-as-size_t argument.
11:18 < nsf> int is big enough I think
11:18 < aiju> the "right" size for something depends on the architecture
11:18 < nsf> but again, what "int"?
11:19 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: So you'll never have strings bigger than 2 GB?
11:19 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: no strings in my language
11:19 < nsf> and I won't yeah
11:19 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Does it have arrays?
11:19 < nsf> 2GB string is crazy
11:19 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: arrays as static types, yes
11:19 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Not necessarily.
11:19 < nsf> as in C
11:19 < nsf> but with value semantics
11:19 < nsf> as in Go
11:19 < aiju> nsf: "256 byte strings are crazy" --- 60s language developer
11:19 < nsf> :)
11:20 < KirkMcDonald> I think it is entirely reasonable to support
containers of very large sizes.
11:20 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: if you have a string larger than 2GB then you're
doing something wrong
11:20 < KirkMcDonald> Maybe.
11:20 < aiju> "if you have a string larger than 256 bytes then you're doing
something wrong"
11:20 < KirkMcDonald> Depends on what you're doing.
11:20 < aiju> never underestimate the advance of technology
11:21 < nsf> hm..
11:21 < KirkMcDonald> This machine on my lap has 4 GB of RAM, and that's
basically tiny by modern standards.
11:21 < nsf> ok, containers
11:21 < nsf> why can't I have sys.Size or something
11:21 < nsf> an uint which has the size of pointer
11:22 < aiju> uintptr?
11:22 < nsf> yeah
11:22 < KirkMcDonald> Gosh, now everyone needs to type "sys.Size" for the
type of all of their function parameters.
11:22 < nsf> or even as a built-in
11:22 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: you have a better idea?
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11:22 < KirkMcDonald> Which everyone will forget to do!  Just like no one
remembers to use size_t instead of int.
11:22 < nsf> uint is 32 bit in Go
11:22 < aiju> maintaining compatibility and performance between machines
with different word sizes is an outright crazy undertaking
11:22 < nsf> and Go uses ints for slice sizes anyway
11:23 < nsf> aiju: so, what's the conclusion?
11:23 < aiju> i have no clue
11:23 < nsf> it doesn't make sense trying to do something on a language side
for that?
11:23 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: what D uses for its dynamic arrays length?
11:24 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Hah.  D only gained 64-bit support depressingly
recently.
11:24 < KirkMcDonald> It uses int.
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11:24 < nsf> I see
11:24 < KirkMcDonald> Which is to say, 32-bit int.
11:24 < nsf> which is 32 bit, yeah
11:24 < aiju> nsf: i'd simply make int synonymous with int32
11:24 < nsf> aiju: an alias
11:24 < nsf> like byte
11:24 < aiju> yeah
11:24 < nsf> that's my preferred choice as well
11:25 < aiju> and use (u)intptr for containers
11:25 < nsf> I don't think it's wise :)
11:25 < nsf> at the moment container which needs to be able to hold more
than 2 billions of objects
11:25 < nsf> is a very rare case
11:25 < nsf> a special case
11:26 < KirkMcDonald> Will it be in five years?
11:26 < nsf> I think it will
11:26 < nsf> because you see, 256 for example is small number
11:26 < nsf> even for human brain
11:26 < nsf> 2 billions is a very big number
11:27 < nsf> and it's enough for most tasks
11:27 < nsf> let's think why we need int64 in the first place?
11:27 < nsf> 1.  unix time after 2038
11:27 < nsf> 2.  addressing memory
11:27 < nsf> what else?
11:27 < KirkMcDonald> Counting things.
11:28 < nsf> like?  :)
11:28 < ww> a container holding 2e9 things might not be so rare
11:28 < nsf> in the web, ok
11:28 < nsf> guests or visitors
11:28 < KirkMcDonald> Requests on a very active website.
11:28 < KirkMcDonald> Yes.
11:28 < ww> but does it make sense to index these 2e9 things with sequential
integers?  probably not
11:28 < nsf> ww: exactly
11:28 < nsf> and when we're talking about container
11:28 < ww> are such datasets likely to be static enough that you won't have
to ever insert or delete an element?  probably not
11:28 < nsf> it's not like a database or something
11:28 < nsf> std::vector<T>
11:29 < KirkMcDonald> I am thinking in particular of loading a very large
file into memory and creating slices into the very large buffer.
11:29 < nsf> you see, when you have really huge amounts of data
11:29 < nsf> you're starting to use special software for that
11:29 < nsf> distributed databases and other kinds of systems
11:30 < KirkMcDonald> Though of course there are other ways of dealing with
very large files.
11:30 < ww> KirkMcDonald: aha.  interesting case.  even if you just mmap it,
mmap gives you a slice...  and...  2Gb file size limit
11:30 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: but do we need to use an array of objects for
that?
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11:30 < KirkMcDonald> Still, once I've got 12 GB of RAM in my machine, why
not?
11:30 < nsf> like every byte is an object
11:30 < nsf> loading file is more like addressing a memory to me
11:31 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: I've got to say "give me the five billionth byte"
somehow.
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11:31 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: addressing bytes is a work with pointers
11:31 < nsf> would you use std::vector for that?
11:31 < KirkMcDonald> Okay, so I have a pointer to the front of the buffer,
and I add five billion to it...
11:32 < nsf> ya
11:32 < ww> ...  and we don't really have pointer arithmetic...
11:32 < nsf> what I mean is
11:32 < KirkMcDonald> Which type holds that five billion, again?  :-)
11:32 < nsf> that "container" is more like a dynamic container
11:32 < nsf> your case is more like: alloc 5 gigs, load file, use that byte
11:32 < nsf> pretty much a special case
11:32 < nsf> you don't need to grow it in a dynamic fashion
11:33 < nsf> because once you've reached 4 gigs
11:33 < nsf> and doing realloc
11:33 < nsf> you need 2x memory for that
11:33 < nsf> and you're doing something wrong at this point
11:33 < djbrown> anyone else having issues with gocode?
11:33 < ww> nsf: allocation is a separate issue, this is precisely what mmap
is for
11:33 < nsf> djbrown: like?
11:33 < KirkMcDonald> I'm not saying anything about dynamic containers.
11:33 < KirkMcDonald> I'm talking about which type is suitable for use as
the array index.
11:33 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: but you can address any byte on your machine
using pointer arithmetic
11:34 < nsf> pointer arithmetic works with any integer types
11:34 < djbrown> nsf: http://pastebin.com/xUaCXZsG
11:34 < ww> but pointer artihmetic is discouraged by go...
11:34 < nsf> djbrown: interesting, can you give me an example that causes
that?
11:34 < ww> would be nice to be able to use the native idionms
11:34 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: So slices are represented internally as a pair of
pointers?
11:34 < nsf> ww: sure
11:34 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: no
11:35 < nsf> int and a pointer
11:35 < djbrown> nsf: just doing fmt.  c-x c-o
11:35 < nsf> but _My_ language
11:35 < nsf> doesn't have slices and it does have pointer arithmetic
11:35 < KirkMcDonald> heh
11:35 < nsf> djbrown: the question is: where?  is it a small hello world
like file?  or there is a surrounding?
11:35 < djbrown> just a hello world thing
11:36 < nsf> strange then
11:36 < nsf> what's the version of gocode and go?
11:36 < KirkMcDonald> nsf: Still, once you are talking about pointer
arithmetic, you still need to represent offsets somehow.
11:36 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: yeah
11:36 < nsf> that's how I started this talk
11:36 < KirkMcDonald> Which is just another word for index.
11:36 < nsf> what's the type of an expression: a - b
11:36 < djbrown> nsf: f949db3f967b tip
11:36 < nsf> where a and b are pointers
11:37 < nsf> djbrown: have you tried it with the latest weekly?
11:37 < KirkMcDonald> a[b] <=> *(a + b) <=> b[a]
11:37 < nsf> I can't support 'tip' versions
11:37 < djbrown> nsf: i have not, can try
11:37 < nsf> djbrown: please do :)
11:37 < nsf> KirkMcDonald: not really
11:37 < aiju> KirkMcDonald one of my favourite C features
11:38 < nsf> (a + b) yields a pointer
11:38 < aiju> right after switch() fornication
11:38 < nsf> a[b] can be represented as *(a + b)
11:38 < nsf> where operation happens on a pointer size anyway
11:38 < nsf> but a - b can be negative
11:38 < nsf> apparently it should be an integer of a pointer size
11:38 < nsf> I have no idea how can I do that
11:39 < nsf> using abstract int was one of the ideas
11:39 < nsf> because this is ok in C: uint8_t(a - b)
11:39 < nsf> so..  therefore I'm simply saying: you must specify the size
11:39 < nsf> maybe you know that offset is small enough to be in int16
11:39 < nsf> or int32
11:40 < nsf> which is mostly the case
11:40 < nsf> usually you don't do: 0xFFFFFFFFFFFF - 0
11:40 < nsf> :)
11:40 < nsf> more like: end - begin
11:41 < nsf> so..  I have no idea what's the right choice
11:41 < nsf> should I formalize ptrdiff_t like type
11:41 < nsf> or simply use an abstract type
11:41 < taruti> Has anyone encountered "throw: runtime.sched.mcpu < 0 in
scheduler" ?
11:41 < nsf> of course internally that abstract type will be implemented as
C's ptrdiff_t
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11:43 < ww> funny how google's hiring all the canadians...
11:44 < nsf> C says: When two pointers are subtracted ...  The size of the
result is implementation-defined, and its type (a signed integer type) is
ptrdiff_t defined in the <stddef.h>
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11:44 < nsf> so, basically C uses abstract integer
11:44 < nsf> but standards forces a compiler to define it in stddef.h
11:45 < nsf> works for C, it has crazy implicit type conversion rules
11:45 < nsf> won't work for me :(
11:47 < djbrown> nsf: same error with the weekly
11:47 < nsf> :(
11:47 < nsf> I know a potential reason
11:47 < nsf> I've added support for shebang statements recently
11:48 < rm445> right, in C the point is that pointer+integer=another
pointer.  And you can rearrange this to pointer - pointer = an integer.
11:48 < nsf> rm445: the question is: what integer?  :)
11:48 < rm445> so the difference between two pointers has an integer type,
you just need to make sure it has enough bits.
11:48 < nsf> pointer + integer = pointer allows you to use any integer
11:48 < nsf> yeah
11:49 < nsf> djbrown: and you use the gocode latest git for sure?
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11:49 < djbrown> nsf: yep, just checked it out
11:50 < nsf> hm..
11:50 < rm445> nsf: an integer type big enough to hold -SIZE_MAX+1 to
SIZE_MAX?
11:50 < nsf> rm445: an integer type which has a size of a pointer in other
words :)
11:51 < nsf> djbrown: let's see, I can't repeat an error, hello world like
fmt.<autocompletion> works for me
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11:51 < nsf> djbrown: maybe you forgot to add "package main" or something?
:)
11:52 < djbrown> nsf: nope, it's all there
11:52 < djbrown> nsf: compiles fine
11:52 < nsf> ok
11:52 < aiju> http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(lingua_programmandi) someone
should write a Go article
11:53 < nsf> djbrown: it's interesting because it fails where it shouldn't
11:53 < nsf> unless
11:53 < nsf> uhm..  one moment
11:53 < nsf> no, something must be wrong
11:54 < nsf> djbrown: try in terminal: "gocode close"
11:54 < nsf> and then try it in vim again
11:54 < djbrown> nsf: pulled the source down and built it again, now it
suddenly works
11:54 < nsf> yeah
11:54 < nsf> the only reason why it could happen is the following:
11:55 < djbrown> i did close it before though
11:55 < nsf> uhm..  or not
11:55 < nsf> anyways, it works
11:55 < nsf> problem solved :)
11:55 < djbrown> yep ;)
11:56 < djbrown> or hmm
11:56 < djbrown> it's something with that file
11:56 < nsf> interesting
11:56 < nsf> wrong utf-8 symbol?
11:56 < djbrown> might be
11:56 < nsf> invalid I mean
11:56 < nsf> because I usually don't check for that kind of errors
11:57 < nsf> and since it panics in utf8MoveBackwards
11:57 < nsf> makes sense :)
11:57 < djbrown> yeah, it's the fine
11:57 < djbrown> file*
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12:19 < djbrown> nsf: what colorscheme is it that you have in that example
video?
12:22 < nsf> baycomb as far as I remember
12:22 < nsf> or not
12:22 < nsf> one moment
12:22 < nsf> ah, it's in terminal
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12:22 < nsf> then it's asu1dark
12:23 < nsf> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=121
12:23 < djbrown> ty
12:23 < nsf> also I use modified syntax file for Go
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12:24 < nsf> sort of
12:24 < nsf> I like to keep () and {} highlighted
12:24 < nsf> http://pastie.org/1750467
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12:24 < nsf> just drop that to: ~/.vim/after/syntax/go.vim
12:25 < nsf> http://nsf.github.com/images/gocode1.png <- that's the
baycomb theme with a modified pop-up menu settings
12:25 < nsf> http://nsf.github.com/images/gocode2.png <- that's asu1dark
12:26 < nsf> maybe modified as well :)
12:27 < djbrown> aight, ty
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12:45 < katakuna> go supports opengl?  o_O
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13:12 < Guest14140> ll
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14:27 < napsy> Hello.  Can I get a new object of a type that I provided as a
string?
14:28 < taruti> no
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14:30 < napsy> ok
14:40 < nsf> napsy: I'm not sure I understand what you mean
14:41 < nsf> type X string
14:41 < nsf> a := X("123")
14:41 < nsf> you can do that
14:41 < nsf> not sure if this is what you want
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14:45 < napsy> um it's ok, I found another way
14:46 < nsf> but maybe there is a better way :)
14:47 < nsf> even more better*!
14:47 < taruti> How does one upload a new set of patches to an existing CL
on codereview?
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15:43 < justinlilly> is there a resource for determining what implements a
given interface?  I'd like to see everything that implements the Writer interface
in the stdlib.
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15:47 < ww> justinlilly: i don't think so, the idea came up a while ago as a
documentation supplement / index but i don't think anything has been done about it
15:47 < justinlilly> thx.
15:47 * justinlilly just concats strings together for now.
15:47 < ww> not sure it really should be in stdlib though, more of a
documentation thing
15:48 < justinlilly> I didn't mean that the tool would be in the stdlib,
only that it indexes the stdlib.
15:48 < ww> right :)
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16:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Ws6cbO by [Andrey Mirtchovski] in
go/src/pkg/os/ -- os: add a few missing plan9 errors
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16:12 < taruti> Has anyone got a simpler http library than the one in
/pkg/http?
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16:14 < ww> simpler in what sense?
16:15 < taruti> ww: less code, no persistent connections etc.  (/pkg/http
keeps triggering runtime bugs on plan9)
16:18 < ww> not that i know of...
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16:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/zkJn6G by [Andrey Mirtchovski] in
go/src/pkg/path/filepath/ -- path/filepath: add support for plan9
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16:44 < napsy> If I have a map[int] func(Person, []byte) ...  and a method
func (p Person) PrintPerson(data []byte) ...  can I add the method to the map?
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16:44 < nsf> you need to define your own map type
16:45 < katakuna> struct PersonData type { }
16:45 < nsf> type MyMap map[int]func(Person,[]byte)
16:45 < nsf> and then you can add a method to it
16:47 < napsy> what if the object PersonData doesn't exist yet, can I use
the method as being static like in C++?
16:49 < nsf> no
16:49 < nsf> use a function
16:50 < napsy> ok
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17:10 < skelterjohn> taruti: web.go
17:11 < taruti> skelterjohn: doesn't that use http?
17:11 < taruti> already implemented a simplehttp.go :)
17:11 < skelterjohn> yes, but you don't interface with http directly
17:11 < skelterjohn> only via web.go
17:11 < aiju> HTTP is evil
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17:12 < taruti> skelterjohn: the issue is with http package causing a crash
and thus avoiding using it.
17:12 < skelterjohn> aiju: the protocol?
17:12 < aiju> yes
17:12 < skelterjohn> taruti: ah.  i thought the issue was http was too
complex :)
17:12 < taruti> too complex to start debugging it :)
17:12 < aiju> if you think http is simple, you don't know it
17:12 < skelterjohn> i see
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17:13 < skelterjohn> who are you arguing with exactly, aiju?
17:13 < aiju> you :P
17:13 < skelterjohn> when did i claim http was simple?
17:13 < aiju> never
17:13 < aiju> just saying
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17:16 < skelterjohn> (flakey internet)
17:16 < ljs> aiju: was skelterjohn's disconnection due to http?  ;-)
17:16 < aiju> of course!
17:16 < ljs> (I kid I kid)
17:17 < aiju> http also caused WWII
17:17 < skelterjohn> i missed whatever great retort aiju had, but maybe
that's ok
17:17 < aiju> and FTP did WTC
17:17 < ljs> 'never just saying' ;)
17:17 < ljs> lol I think we are starting to come up against barriers of
tastefulness here...!
17:17 < ljs> now, now gentlemen...
17:18 < ljs> *man
17:18 < aiju> which jewish barriers of tastefulness?
17:18 < ljs> oh dear...  :-S
17:18 < skelterjohn> it's been almost ten years since 9/11.  it's no longer
'too soon'
17:19 < skelterjohn> though aiju's last comment was a bit strange
17:19 < aiju> haha
17:20 < aiju> http://harmful.cat-v.org/pc.jpg
17:20 < ljs> aiju: not sure what you mean by that...  I think you had better
stick to discussing go now!
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17:20 < ljs> http://xkcd.com/386/
17:21 < skelterjohn> anyway, does anyone want to try to break
https://github.com/skelterjohn/gorf for me?
17:22 < ljs> a refactoring tool for go?
17:22 < ljs> tell me more
17:23 < skelterjohn> um
17:23 < skelterjohn> what more do you want me to tell you
17:23 < skelterjohn> it refactors
17:23 < ljs> :)
17:23 < ljs> lol
17:23 < skelterjohn> but it's annoying to come up with test cases to make
sure it works in all cases
17:23 < ljs> what refactorings, how do you interact with it, etc.?
17:23 < skelterjohn> i'd much rather have other people give me examples that
break
17:23 < skelterjohn> should be in the README
17:23 < ljs> k
17:23 < ljs> I'll take a look...
17:24 < skelterjohn> README is at the bottom of that page
17:24 < skelterjohn> can move packages around, rename them, merge them, and
split off parts of a package into a new package (that last one was the toughest)
17:27 < ljs> ok cool
17:27 < ljs> I will have a quick go at breaking it, before I pass out (been
a long day)
17:27 < skelterjohn> but mind the disclaimer - i take no responsibility if
it fucks something up
17:27 < ljs> lol
17:27 < skelterjohn> work on a copy
17:27 < ljs> yes
17:28 < ljs> mate, I run bleeding edge go the whole time, and attempt to
write patches to the core environment
17:28 < ljs> fucking stuff up comes naturally :)
17:30 < skelterjohn> then you are probably well versed with version control,
and shouldn't have a problem
17:30 < skelterjohn> in the gorf/testcases directory there are some tests
youc an run
17:31 < skelterjohn> that show how to use it
17:31 < ljs> ok
17:31 < ljs> no guarantees though.  I am v busy atm...
17:32 < skelterjohn> no worries, you'd be doing me a favor.
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17:56 < btipling> I'm kind of new to queues but was thinking of making one
for my first go program
17:56 < btipling> I was thinking using files, write to a specific file to
add to a queue, read from another file to get the next item (the entire file's
contents will be the next item), and to see the list there's another file for that
17:56 < btipling> maybe that's stupid I dunno, but going to give it a try
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19:39 < bluehex> Hi guys, I'm trying to make examples from Go-Opengl which
depend on Go-SDL.  I've already made and installed Go-SDL and Go-OpenGL.  But when
I try to make the examples in Go-OpenGL I get:
19:39 < bluehex> draw.go:10: can't find import: sdl
19:40 < bluehex> yet if I do a find $GOROOT -name *sdl* it shows
19:41 < vbh> Is there a way to define a long string literal over multiple
lines without introducing a '\n' ?
19:41 < nsf> vbh: yes, use raw strings
19:41 < nsf> `123`
19:42 < nsf> "Raw string literals are character sequences between back
quotes ``.  Within the quotes, any character is legal except back quote.  The
value of a raw string literal is the string composed of the uninterpreted
characters between the quotes; in particular, backslashes have no special meaning
and the string may span multiple lines."
19:44 < bluehex> Why can't import find a library which it exists in
$GOROOT/pkg/darwin_amd64/ ? Am I missing something?
19:44 < vbh> nsf: nice, ty
19:46 < nsf> bluehex: sounds strange, it should work
19:47 < bluehex> Hmm odd.  The name of the lib files are ?sdl.a and theirs a
directory called ?sdl/
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19:47 < nsf> ah, it's a for of sdl
19:47 -!- ljs
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19:47 < nsf> https://github.com/0xe2-0x9a-0x9b/Go-SDL
19:47 < nsf> that one
19:48 < nsf> you need that one: https://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL
19:48 < nsf> fork*
19:49 < bluehex> Oh you're right!  I thought I was pulling from the banthar
fork then I checked my remotes and sure enough it's
https://github.com/0xe2-0x9a-0x9b/Go-SDL.git
19:49 < bluehex> I'll try the banthar fork.  Thanks!
19:50 < nsf> yeah
19:50 < nsf> np
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20:11 < bluehex> So that worked nsf, it allowed me to compile the Go-OpenGL
examples but they fail to run.  As do the GO-SDL tests for the same reason.  I
guess this is more a question for the GO-SDL guys but just in case anyone here
knows something...  http://pastie.org/1751803
20:12 < nsf> I have no idea what happens
20:12 < nsf> OpenGL apps don't work on my machine at all
20:12 < nsf> due to an issue with nvidia drivers on linux
20:13 < bluehex> Ahh alrighty, thanks for your help.  I'll post a bug to
GO-SDL's issue tracker.
20:14 < dforsyth> is there a way to put multiple statement in the init and
post statement of for loops?
20:15 < aiju> dforsyth: no
20:15 < dforsyth> k, good to know im not retarded
20:15 < nsf> dforsyth: you can only do this:
20:16 < nsf> for i, n := 0, len(array); i < n; i, x = i+1, x+1
20:16 < nsf> sort of like multiple statements
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20:17 < dforsyth> yup
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20:35 < vbh> How do I declare an array whose size I can't know in advance ?
([]byte to hold an uploaded file, e.g) ?
20:37 < |Craig|> vbh: use a slice not an array
20:38 < aiju> arrays in Go are almost useless
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20:39 < vbh> Craig: oh ok
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23:03 < steven> any generics yet?
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23:10 < skelterjohn> yes
23:10 < skelterjohn> alternatively, "ends, meet means.  means, meet ends."
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23:39 < str1ngs> hmm can you declare bar this way func Foo() (bar *Bar,err
os.Error) seems to work for err but not bar
23:41 < ww> yes your problem's elsewhere
23:42 < str1ngs> how so?
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23:45 < str1ngs> I guess (bar *Bar) is not the same as new(Bar) or &Bar{} ?
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23:50 < str1ngs> hmm weird fmt.Printf("%T = %v",err,err) <nil> =
<nil>
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 04 00:00:40 2011