--- Log opened Mon Dec 06 00:00:37 2010
00:01 < skelterjohn> i don't even have the ability to test on windows
00:01 < skelterjohn> so there's that.
00:02 < rhencke> you may find it interesting reading at the least
00:09 < skelterjohn> that's for the pointer
00:14 < skelterjohn> that's = thanks
00:14 < rhencke> no problem
00:15 < rhencke> throw: throw: throw: throw: throw: throw: throw:
malloc/free - deadlock is still the coolest go bug i've gotten in a while
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00:58 < adg> rhencke: rsc was having that issue with some minimal test case,
he posted the error to internal buzz and said "guess that's Go's way of telling me
it's time to go to bed." ;-)
00:58 < rhencke> adg: lol
00:59 < rhencke> adg: i figured it was the compiler's way of giving me the
middle finger
01:00 < rhencke> but i like rsc's better
01:03 < rhencke> i was trying to read through the gc/6g source for it...
but it was way out of my league
01:08 < rhencke> anyone know if go has anything like strspn?
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01:24 < dho> haha adg
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01:28 < jeff2> is include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH) still supported in
Makefiles?  I'm not seeing any Make.amd64 in my $(GOROOT)/src
01:28 < rhencke> jeff2: i think you just include make.inc now
01:29 < rhencke> jeff2: try $(GOROOT)/src/Make.inc
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01:33 < jeff2> rhencke: hm, that gets further, but now I'm calling the
linker wrong.  is there a good, up-to-date example of a go Makefile for a simple
application?
01:34 < jeff2> I've found many examples for packages but not regular apps
01:34 < rhencke> jeff2: are you using cgo?
01:34 < rhencke> you shouldn't really have to mess with the linker manually
01:35 < rhencke> jeff2: here's a sample makefile for a command.
http://golang.org/src/cmd/goinstall/Makefile
01:36 < rhencke> jeff2: where it has ../.., substitute $(GOROOT)/src
01:36 < rhencke> unless you're needing stuff from cgo, that should be about
all there is to it
01:37 < jeff2> rhencke: thanks, that Makefile is just what I was looking
for.  I found lots of bad examples that called the compiler and linker and defined
.6.go rules etc.  themselves but I knew there must have been a simpler way :)
01:38 < rhencke> jeff2: no problem, glad that worked.  :)
01:40 < TheSeeker> hrm.  possible issue with the default make.pkg ...  mkdir
behaves very differently on windows vs linux :/
01:40 < rhencke> maybe it's expecting mingw's mkdir?
01:41 < jeff2> rhencke: well, almost..  with my custom Makefile, I seem to
have built up a more complicated project structure with each .go file in its own
package.  is such an application easily compilable with the go Makefiles or would
I have to resort to something like the second answer on
<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1766720/multi-package-makefile-example-for-go>?
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01:42 < rhencke> jeff2: ah..  are you just putting each file in its own
package by convention?
01:42 < TheSeeker> mkdir is a built-in command of cmd.exe ...  I don't think
it checks for a version of it in the path ...  you'd have to call it with
mkdir.exe instead of mkdir I think :/
01:42 < rhencke> jeff2: if it's a small enough program, i'd just throw all
of them in package main
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01:43 < rhencke> TheSeeker: that could be..  i haven't done much past simple
commands on the windows side, sorry :/
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01:46 < TheSeeker> I tried just removing the -p part, but it seems the exit
code isn't 0 on windows if the path already exists.  :|
01:46 < TheSeeker> it results in a 'name collision' result rather tha a
'success' like mkdir -p on linux does...
01:46 < rhencke> ow :/
01:47 < jeff2> rhencke: I suppose that would work..  but I kind of liked
having the separate packages to keep things organized.
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01:47 < rhencke> jeff2: how many packages?
01:48 < jeff2> rhencke: four at the moment, but could grow to several dozen
later.  here's my current custom Makefile I'm using btw:
http://pastebin.com/9U1qRznb
01:50 < rhencke> jeff2: with the current Go Makefiles, it'll be happiest if
you split each package out to its own subdirectory
01:51 < rhencke> jeff2: you can take another approach.  i've used godag on
several pet projects.  it'd fit well with the way you want to do this, i think
01:52 < rhencke> jeff2: http://code.google.com/p/godag/
01:56 < jeff2> rhencke: godag looks awesome.  will try it
01:56 < TheSeeker> hmm, test -d foo <- looks like what is suppsoed to
make it skip doing mkdir if the dir already exists...
01:56 < rhencke> jeff2: i've had very good luck with it.  hope it works for
you
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02:07 < TheSeeker> ok, so the test -d foo && mkdir should be test -d foo ||
(true for both windows and linux)
02:07 < TheSeeker> you only want to mkdir if the target *doesn't* exist.
02:08 < TheSeeker> hmm, except that that's not what's being checked in the
make.pkg.  blah
02:10 < TheSeeker> it's seeing if $goroot\pkg exists before mkdir-ing
$(pkgdir) / $(pkgdir)/$(dir)
02:10 < TheSeeker> hmm.
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02:12 < rhencke> try kicking it
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02:19 < jeff2> rhencke: got it working.  one quirk in godag is that it
treats import("./foo") and package foo as different packages (as seen with gd
-dot), so it doesn't get the dependencies right on my project.  but removing ./
from all imports and building with `gd . -I.` does the trick
02:20 < rhencke> jeff2: awesome.  :) then just add -o yourExeName to get a
runnable program
02:20 < rhencke> if that works, just put the command in something like
build.sh, chmod a+x build.sh, and you're good to go
02:21 < skelterjohn> if only gb were good enough to suggest people use to do
anything other than test...
02:21 < skelterjohn> *shakes fist at time*
02:21 < rhencke> i usually don't have to specify gd . -I...  usually just gd
-o myprog works
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02:22 < rhencke> skelterjohn: yeah, i know the feeling
02:22 < skelterjohn> well, i started making it yesterday
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02:22 < skelterjohn> so that's just how it goes
02:22 < rhencke> what you need is a time machine
02:23 < skelterjohn> pair the finished gb with the public release of go
02:23 < skelterjohn> that would do it
02:23 < rhencke> lol
02:24 < rhencke> jeff2: i do like me some gd -dot
02:26 < sjohnson> is anyone worried that Go is going to be similar to PHP,
by including non-static stuff like crypto algorithms in the standard library
packages?
02:26 < TheSeeker> ok, so I've gotten make.pkg no longer causing issues with
mkdir ...  now it seems to be choking on utf8 file names :|
02:27 < rhencke> sjohnson: elaborate?
02:28 < sjohnson> well, it supports a few old ciphers.  and it would be a
difficult task changing the constant "standard" to put in new ones.  so it seems
like an incomplete standard that can't be helped.  whereas with something like C++
and Crypto++ libs, it's modular and isolated, and crypto++ crew worry about new
additions and ASM bugfixes, and C++ remains the same.
02:28 * TheSeeker shakes fist at 0xe2-0x9a-0x9b
02:29 < TheSeeker> ⚛perf.a is not a sensible file name :P
02:30 < jeff2> rhencke: it is pretty sweet.  and you're right, I can omit
-I.  if I get rid of all ./ imports.  so it looks like I'm all set.  thanks again
for your help.  this is going to make using gotest much easier, I imagine
02:30 < rhencke> jeff2: yes..  just gd -test :)
02:30 < rhencke> jeff2: glad i could hlep
02:31 < rhencke> sjohnson: well..  i think the crypto stuff is currently
fairly modular, but my bigger concern long-term would be static linking
02:32 < sjohnson> i dont really care either way, just noticed it.
02:32 < rhencke> its food for thought, certainly
02:33 < sjohnson> i'm thinking it might be sloppy for me if i wrote a
program in Go that used Go's blowfish and cast5, but becuase I wanted twofish and
serpent too, I'd have to have half stdlib stuff, and the other half 3rd party
stuff.
02:33 < sjohnson> of course, i could do the entire thing in a 3rd party go
library (provided it existed)
02:34 < rhencke> i wouldn't be opposed to go's standard library being leaner
than it currently is, and break stuff like crypto off into its own
02:35 < rhencke> there's some stuff in there that makes me scratch my head,
like net/dict
02:36 < vsmatck> dict is pretty well established.  I can imagine a lot of
applications that'd want to have an internet source for spell checking.
02:37 < vsmatck> Well, not a lot.  *shrug* I mean.  I dunno.
02:37 < rhencke> i guess if you hooked it up to urban dictionary
02:37 < rhencke> net/urbandict
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02:38 < vsmatck> Does urbandictionary support dict?
02:38 < rhencke> i don't know, but that would be awesome
02:38 < vsmatck> yeah *looks it up*
02:40 < vsmatck> Hm. Looks like no support for it.
02:41 < rhencke> dang
02:44 < sjohnson> rhencke: i agree with you completely
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02:44 < sjohnson> as much as i love cryptography and ease of it being
available, i think it being in a standard library is a bad idea.  if it was an
official 3rd party Go package though from Google, that's fine
02:45 < rhencke> sjohnson: like the protobuf support
02:45 < sjohnson> or some 3rd party bundle like go-tools or some shit
03:03 < TheSeeker> since go was designed with client/server apps in mind, it
makes perfect sense to include crypto in the standard library...  you definately
don't want private customer data going in clear text over networks.
03:05 < Namegduf> sjohnson: You imply the core library can't be updated just
as easily as an addon library from the same source.
03:05 < Namegduf> That doesn't make sense.
03:05 < Namegduf> I don't think Go's stdlib is actually "standardised", so
there's no problem with a standard getting out of date, I think?
03:05 < sjohnson> Namegduf: doesn't a "Standard" library stay the same,
usually for a quite a years?
03:06 < Namegduf> Go's certainly hasn't so far and I don't see why it would
need to.
03:06 < sjohnson> well, that explains it then.
03:06 < vsmatck> It eventually needs to because people don't want their
programs broken.
03:06 < vsmatck> But it may not need to yet.
03:06 < rhencke> go is still young, but it will be something eventually
faced
03:07 < vsmatck> Imagine if someone just decided to change libc all of the
sudden.  heh
03:07 < Namegduf> People using the crypto library don't want their programs
broken, either.
03:07 < sjohnson> they might want ciphers that don't date back to 10 years
ago, though.
03:07 < Namegduf> In both cases they can add new things without affecting
backwards compatibility, and in both cases the time before removing deprecated
support is similar.
03:08 < Namegduf> Yes, they might, but you've failed to explain any reason
they couldn't be added to the standard distribution, or why the standard
distribution should be harder to update.
03:08 < TheSeeker> ciphers that last 10 years are probably extrememly strong
:)
03:09 < rhencke> ciphers get deprecated, essentially
03:10 < vsmatck> Even old stuff retains some useful properties.  RC4 is used
in bittorrent for example.
03:11 < skelterjohn> it wouldn't be horrible to have a distinction between
"core" libraries and "extra" libraries
03:11 < skelterjohn> perhaps, a package called "ext" or something
03:12 < vsmatck> Having something like the boost C++ libraries, but a go
version would be nice.
03:12 < vsmatck> Same concept I mean, not the exact same libraries.
03:12 < Namegduf> Isn't Boost's concept "eveything we feel the stdlib should
have"?
03:12 < skelterjohn> enough of us would have to get together for long enough
to cooperate
03:12 < skelterjohn> hard to manage
03:12 < vsmatck> heh
03:12 < Namegduf> It's kinda got anything and everything in it.
03:13 < rhencke> boost will make you breakfast and wash your clothes
03:13 < vsmatck> boost has been a staging area for stuff that may eventually
get added to the standard library.  It'd be nice to have something like that for
go.  Something between a random github project and a standard library.
03:14 < Namegduf> Why?
03:14 < Namegduf> Go's stdlib develops quickly enough that things are just
added to it when the devs want to.
03:14 < rhencke> vsmatck: they kinda have that..  the exp/ package
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03:14 < rhencke> but it's not as large as what you're thinking, i think
03:14 < skelterjohn> exp is for experimental stuff
03:15 < vsmatck> skelterjohn: ah!  I didn't know that's what that was.
03:15 < Namegduf> And keeping stuff people are proposing as separate
projects means you don't need to depend on a single huge ugly blob with no
specific single function
03:15 < skelterjohn> you also can't rely on their existence quite as well
03:16 < skelterjohn> also expanding the core means more work for the devs
when they update
03:16 < skelterjohn> presumably they wouldn't update if something in there
broke
03:16 < skelterjohn> they're allowed to update if it breaks 3rd party stuff
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03:54 < sjohnson> Namegduf: i did explain it.  i thought that the standard
library usually implies it is modular enough so that things don't need updating
often.  hence, why i think crypto package which would be regularily updated would
be a 3rd party thing.
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04:26 < TheSeeker> regularly updated?  how often are new crypto methods
introduced into wide usage, really?
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04:31 < sjohnson> TheSeeker: i dunno, once every year or so?
04:32 < sjohnson> the only block 128-bit block cipher it supports is AES.
the rest are all the other 64-bit block ciphers from the 90's
04:32 < sjohnson> actually, once every year is not quite right.  once every
time a contest happens, like AES, and NESSIE happen, and SHA-3, then every couple
of years.
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04:43 < adu> what?
04:44 < adu> Namegduf: sounds poorly designed
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04:49 < cbeck1> Any ideas as to how one might easily determine the
endianness of the system you're running on?
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04:50 < rhencke> what do you need the endianness for?
04:52 < rhencke> if you need to read or write data in a specific endianness,
you can use the binary package
04:52 < rhencke> but i don't think it'll tell you the endianness of your
system
04:54 < cbeck> Right, I'm using the binary package, one of the arguments to
binary.Read/Write is the endianness to expect
04:55 < rhencke> you are reading data?
04:56 < rhencke> if it's off a network, chances are it's big endian
04:56 < Namegduf> cbeck: You mean the endianness to read from/write to?
04:57 < Namegduf> Or does it actually want to know the system's own
endianness?
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05:04 < cbeck> endianness to read/write to
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05:05 < Namegduf> Then you just need to know the format's endianness, not
the system's.
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10:50 < GilJ> I was building a string and wasn't very sure if using the +=
operator to append to a string (like i did in http://pastie.org/1351773) is how
I'm supposed to do it, or are there better ways?
10:50 < nsf> GilJ: += isn't a very fast method
10:51 < nsf> if you don't care it's fine
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10:52 < nsf> otherwise use bytes.Buffer, accumulate all the string data and
then convert it to string type
10:52 < GilJ> Ok thanks alot :)
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11:35 < foocraft> so guys, why is " if len allItems > 0 {" not an allowed
statement?
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11:36 < GilJ> foocraft: len(allItems)?
11:36 < foocraft> D'oh sorry about that
11:37 < foocraft> it's the "if statement" kicking in the other stuff by
mistake
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13:44 < pure_x01> I have problems compiling gccgo from the gcc trunk
../.././libgo/runtime/go-go.c: In function ‘__go_run_goroutine_gc’:
../.././libgo/runtime/go-go.c:355:1: error: bp cannot be used in asm here
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13:57 < pure_x01> 64 bit ubuntu 10.10 . ::: ./configure
--prefix=/home/pure/gcc-4.6-20101204 --disable-bootstrap CFLAGS="-g3 -O0"
--enable-languages=c,go,c++ --disable-multilib --program-suffix=-4.6
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16:33 < mpl> uriel:
16:33 < mpl> uriel: you might want to discuss that (on reddit?) with ppl
interested in CSP: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4157
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16:41 < foocraft> does a slice allocate new memory or just create a new
pseudo array that is just a range of another previously created array?
16:43 < exch> make([]T, size, capacity) allocates new memory.  Taking a
slice of an existing slice/array doesn't allocate/ It's just a pointer into the
existing structure
16:46 < foocraft> so why not have all arrays though?
16:46 < exch> What do you mean?
16:46 < foocraft> why is a slice important now?  can't I just return a
pointer to somewhere within the array ( aka slice) ?
16:47 < exch> A slice is a lightweight form to access fixed arrays (chunks
of memory).  Almost everything in Go uses slices instead of arrays
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16:51 < foocraft> okay so how can I start iterating over a channel
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16:52 < exch> for v := range mychan { ..  }
16:52 < foocraft> a channel is only iterable one way, right?
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16:55 < rmmh> what would it mean to iterate it in reverse?
16:56 < exch> You can't
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16:56 < rmmh> (exactly what I'm trying to point out)
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16:57 < foocraft> then why are there bidirectional chans...
16:57 < foocraft> oh got it
16:58 < foocraft> you can read and add to them at the same time
16:58 < foocraft> it would be nice if I can override how a chan orders its
elements, upon insertion
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16:59 < foocraft> (then I get a PQ! :p)
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18:47 < foocraft>
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Go_Programming_Language_Cookbook awesome :p
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18:50 < nsf> yeah, this is all you want to know about Go
18:50 < nsf> ;)
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18:55 < exch> It's a bit barren :p
18:55 < exch> It could do with a tumbleweed imag
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19:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iiJRx by [Roger Peppe] in go/src/pkg/bytes/ --
bytes: add Buffer.UnreadRune, Buffer.UnreadByte
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19:16 < uriel> mpl: interesting, feel free to post it anywhere relevant ;)
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19:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iiMih by [Roger Peppe] in go/src/pkg/time/ --
time: make After use fewer goroutines and host processes.
19:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iiMit by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ -- fmt:
add %U format for standard Unicode representation of integer values.
19:26 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iiMjr by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/flag/ --
flag: fix format error in boolean error report.  just use %q; the values are
strings.
19:26 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iiMjT by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/netchan/ --
netchan: fix dumb locking bug introduced in recent editing.
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19:42 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iiOHQ by [Rob Pike] in 4 subdirs of go/src/ --
use the new %U format for runes
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21:30 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ij4li by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/time/ --
time: fix build
21:30 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ij4lv by [Eoghan Sherry] in go/src/pkg/math/
-- math: improve accuracy of Exp2
21:30 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ij4mA by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- LICENSE:
separate, change PATENTS text
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21:46 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ij6O1 by [Yuval Pavel Zholkover] in 4 subdirs
of go/src/ -- 8l, runtime: fix Plan 9 386 build.
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21:48 < sl> !
21:48 < sl> sorry pavel, i didn't even get a chance to try it out yet.
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22:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ijbmq by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net:
fix TestDialGoogle
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22:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ijdyi by [Robert Griesemer] in 18 subdirs of
go/ -- go/ast: use token.Pos instead of token.Position; adjust all dependent code
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23:06 < foocraft> can I have a channel of functions?
23:09 < Tv> foocraft: should work just fine
23:10 < foocraft> heh and that's how you own sync in Go :)
23:12 < foocraft> so I'm stuck on this.  I'm trying to get the first arg to
my program
23:12 < foocraft> and I imported "flag" for that
23:12 < foocraft> but flag.Arg ( 1 ) isn't really the first argument
23:22 < Tv> "Arg returns the i'th command-line argument.  Arg(0) is the
first remaining argument after flags have been processed."
23:23 < TheSeeker> are you running flag.Parse() ?
23:23 < TheSeeker> before trying to get args?
23:25 < TheSeeker> func NArg() int
23:25 < TheSeeker> NArg is the number of arguments remaining after flags
have been processed.
23:25 < TheSeeker> func Parse()
23:25 < TheSeeker> Parse parses the command-line flags.  Must be called
after all flags are defined and before any are accessed by the program.
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23:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ijlWB by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: don't call flush if position is not valid
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23:42 < zarqu0n> if I am using gccgo, how do I call C code from go?
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leva che succ...]
23:52 <+iant> zarqu0n:
http://golang.org/doc/gccgo_install.html#C_Interoperability
23:57 < zarqu0n> iant: thanks!  (and sorry for not RTFM).  If performance is
critical, what's the best bet to do Go bindings for a C library, and be agnostic
of gccgo and gc?
23:58 <+iant> hmm, good question; I don't think there is a good way at
present to be agnostic
23:58 < zarqu0n> SWIG might be an option, I guess.
23:58 <+iant> yeah, that would work
23:58 <+iant> some day cgo should learn about gccgo
--- Log closed Tue Dec 07 00:00:37 2010