--- Log opened Thu Aug 04 00:00:19 2011
00:00 < knowmercy> looks like this is the culprit Env.Session: return
this["mango.session"].(map[string]interface{})
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00:17 < knowmercy> this looks to be a bug in mango
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00:21 < knowmercy> actually the cookie creation seems quite incomplete
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01:10 < knowmercy> is it better to generally serve up static content like
images, js using nginx or another webserver or do folks just use http in go for
everything?
01:11 < knowmercy> I know with python apps or ruby apps it's a lot faster to
serve them through nginx
01:13 < crunge> unless you have specific performance requirements I would
use whatever is easiest for you, as long as it's still secure
01:14 < knowmercy> I have a gut feeling that Go probably serves static
content about as quickly as nginx
01:14 < nicka1> it's quite a bit faster than python in any case
01:15 < knowmercy> with static files I think I can do somewhere near
8000/sec with nginx on my laptop
01:18 < crunge> if you think your app is going to require scale, think ahead
about separating the serving of static data vs dynamic onto separate physical
hardware
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01:19 < schmichael> that's really easy to do later; just focus on writing
your app and deploying it
01:20 < knowmercy> seems to me that go is for a scale of web developer I'm
just not familiar with yet :)
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01:23 < knowmercy> I was really blown away that the first "building stuff in
go" video I found had locking and threading demo'd in it
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01:25 < exch> Considering Go is aimed at server building and such, that
seems like a good place to start :)
01:29 < knowmercy> yeah
01:29 < knowmercy> I'm really trying to take myself to the next level in
many of these areas
01:31 < knowmercy> tired of building webapps like .net and rails, and pylons
think you should
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02:37 < ph1234k> Has anyone done any large calculations with go?  What
happens when you overflow a type?
02:39 < jessta> ph1234k: it's in the spec
02:39 < ph1234k> k
02:40 < jessta> they overflow back to zero
02:41 < ph1234k> I see
02:42 < jessta> well, unsigned ints do,
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Integer_overflow
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04:06 < ph1234k> Okay just read the integer overflow and I'm not sure I get
it.  So does it happen like Java?
04:06 <+iant> integers wrap in Go, as in Java
04:07 < ph1234k> So if you overflow one it could turn into a negative
number?
04:07 <+iant> yes
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04:09 < ph1234k> That makes me sad.  Why not just protect the sign bit?  But
I geuss that doesn't stop problems when overflow occurs, it just minimizes them.
I just don't want the problems that minecraft has when it computes large chunks
and completely ruins your save.
04:10 <+iant> there are no good solutions
04:10 <+iant> it's the curse of computer arithmetic
04:11 <+iant> at least with Go you can test whether the sum has turned
negative, which does not work in C/C++
04:11 < ph1234k> I guess with go you could do the unpacking and packing
tricks for large numbers
04:12 <+iant> or just the big package
04:12 < ph1234k> ?
04:12 <+iant> http://golang.org/pkg/big/
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04:13 < ph1234k> Oh. Does that allow arbitrarily large sizes?
04:14 <+iant> yes
04:15 < ph1234k> Sweet.  Do you know if there is a downloadable version of
the package documentation?
04:16 <+iant> the documentation is included in the source code, so, sure
04:16 <+iant> if you build Go yourself you will get a copy of the godoc
program
04:16 <+iant> which is what is running golang.org
04:16 <+iant> if you mean a PDF, then, no
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04:17 < ph1234k> I meant any format.  It actually seems that the
distributiion may come with pkg docs but the windows port does not.  I will check
my linux install
04:21 < ph1234k> Hmm nope.  But there docs page that is included is build
for it, and the command reference which is also not availabe.
04:21 < ph1234k> I shall do it myself lol
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04:25 < f2f> is 'godoc' not available on windows?
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04:28 < ph1234k> it is
04:30 < f2f> so 'godoc big' should give you the documentation for the big
package then.
04:32 < ph1234k> Yeah, I can see the doc online now.  I just want all the
pkg docs so I can read them at home
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04:43 < f2f> godoc -http=:6060 will allow you to browse them from localhost
exactly as they are on golang.org.
04:43 < f2f> localhost:6060, of course
04:43 < f2f> and it'll be whatever revision you have downloaded
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04:45 < f2f> go has the feel of plan9 in one respect -- speed.
04:46 < f2f> i get a new piece of hardware and suddenly go compiles a minute
faster than before (with tests and everything).
04:46 < ph1234k> Wait....  Really.  Im going to try this
04:46 < f2f> dmitry optimizes a few things in the core and go is a minute
faster to compile still!
04:47 < f2f> then i install a new version of the operating system and
everything else starts running slower than before.
04:48 < f2f> p9 guaranteed, as does go, i believe, that if you have faster
hardware, other things notwithstanding, your code will run faster :)
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04:51 < ph1234k> That command is awesome
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05:09 < f2f> ph, godoc?  it sure is :)
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05:33 < moraes> go is lovely.
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05:35 < ph1234k> Yes it is'
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06:23 < Jamra> beginner's question: If I want to represent an individual
char of a string such as in an iteration loop, how do I do so?
06:23 < ph1234k> Same as an array
06:24 < Jamra> My problem is with the types.  I am trying to represent a
char as a uint8 and that seems to not match the iteration loop's type
06:24 < ph1234k> uint8(char)
06:24 < Jamra> I see.  Thanks.
06:25 < ph1234k> No problem
06:26 < jessta> Jamra: ranging over a string gives you the unicode
characters as int, but indexing on a string gives you a byte
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06:32 < kirkland> how do i split a string by new lines?
06:32 < kirkland> var lines = strings.Split(string(contents), "\n", -1)
06:32 < kirkland> ^ doesn't seem to be working
06:32 < Jamra> jessta: Yes I know.  Indexing a string looks bad to me
06:42 < f2f> kirkland, seems to work for me:
http://golang.org/doc/play/#package%20main%0A%0Aimport%20%22fmt%22%0Aimport%20%22strings%22%0A%0Afunc%20main()%20%7B%0A%09s%20%3A%3D%20%221%5Cn2%5Cn3%5Cn4%22%0A%09fmt.Println(strings.Split(s%2C%20%22%5Cn%22%2C%20-1))%0A%7D%0A
06:42 < kirkland> f2f: thanks
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09:05 < qulinxao> Hi all.  where I can find list open source progect in
Golang?
09:09 < zozoR> golang
09:09 < zozoR> find project dashboard
09:10 < Jamra> Is there a way to see a stack trace of a golang program?
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09:12 < ph1234k> I can't answer that.  But why?
09:12 < moraes> qulinxao, http://go-lang.cat-v.org/
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09:13 < Jamra> Print statements seem to be affecting the errors being output
in my program.
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10:56 < wrtp> Jamra: print statements can affect scheduling
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12:07 < skelterjohn> Jamra: you can get a stack trace using runtime.Caller()
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12:07 < skelterjohn> see gonicetrace.googlecode.com for an example
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12:08 < Jamra> skelterjohn: Thank you.  You may have just lifted my
depression.
12:08 < skelterjohn> wowza - go coding is serious business
12:09 < skelterjohn> if you use nicetrace, writing func() { defer
nicetrace.Print(); panic("tada!") }() will print a stack trace
12:10 < squeese> Jamra: wow, was it that easy?  :D
12:11 < Jamra> squeese: One can only bang his head against the wall,
expecting different results, so many times.
12:12 < aiju> implicit assignment of unexported field
12:12 < aiju> ^-- this error FUCKING SUCKS
12:12 < skelterjohn> it's not like that's a new addition to the language
12:12 < skelterjohn> any reason you can't use a pointer?
12:13 < aiju> the function doesn't want one
12:13 < skelterjohn> a package has an exported function with a type that
cannot be used outside the package?
12:13 < aiju> ah wait, it wants an interface
12:13 < skelterjohn> phew
12:13 < aiju> it's the go9p package
12:13 < skelterjohn> because that would be a serious bug
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12:15 < aiju> i fucking hate these goinstall package names, too
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12:16 < erus`> joiiinnn uuusssss in the functional programming dark side
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12:21 < skelterjohn> i have the urge to make url shorteners for my packages
12:22 < skelterjohn> Jamra: instead of importing
gonicetrace.googlecode.com/hg/nicetrace, import "goo.gl/ghgN2"
12:22 < skelterjohn> oh, i guess that doesn't follow the import vcs format
12:23 < Jamra> skelterjohn: Gotcha
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12:23 < skelterjohn> (don't do it, it won't work)
12:24 < xyproto> I wish I could write inline Haskell code in Go ;)
12:25 < aiju> i wish i could write inline brainfuck
12:25 < aiju> here, i have some nice papers i wrote in brainfuck
12:25 < aiju> it's minimal instruction set allows for efficient JIT
compilation
12:26 < xyproto> Wonder if there will ever exist BF CPUs :P
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13:13 < knowmerc1> morning
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13:17 < Jamra> Nevermind, shoud have searched google deeper
13:19 < knowmerc1> this thread re: dns queries is mind blowing
13:19 < knowmerc1> 27kqps???
13:19 < knowmerc1> and that's *slow*
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13:22 < jessta> knowmerc1: everything is slow if you need it to be faster
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13:23 < knowmerc1> very true
13:23 < knowmerc1> being that I have come from RoR and python web dev I
decided to document the mindset changes and paradigms I willingly left behind
13:24 < knowmerc1> I've got a pretty neat "cookie cutter" way of doing a few
things now that I think will help others use go to the fullest and still build
maintainable web apps quickly
13:25 < knowmerc1> perhaps blindly accepting things has kept me from
understanding things completely, but it's been fun and painless none the less
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13:31 < jessta> knowmerc1: I do find it strange that there are people that
will complain that Go isn't as fast as C, but will happily code in python
13:32 < moraes> but python is lovely.
13:32 < moraes> you know what confused me in go.  lack of classes.  took me
time to understand how to organize stuff.  really.  :-/
13:32 < moraes> go is also lovely.
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13:33 < knowmerc1> jessta: I built a claims processing application that
would process about 1500 claims a second and I thought it was fast
13:33 < knowmerc1> single instance with everything on one machine
13:33 < knowmerc1> DB inserts and updates
13:33 < knowmerc1> I'd be really curious to see how fast I could make it go
in go
13:34 < knowmerc1> but the library I used to parse the EDI data is only in
python and I'm sure not going to write it in go :)
13:35 < knowmerc1> even if go isn't as fast as C you're getting a fair trade
of manageable code and low dev time comparitively
13:35 < moraes> when you add I/O to the mix...  then things change.
13:35 < knowmerc1> IMO
13:35 < moraes> your time will be spent in the db.
13:39 < nicka1> how are go struct types not roughly classes
13:40 < jessta> nicka1: classes tend to group the methods with the struct
definition
13:40 < zozoR> lol
13:40 < jessta> Go has no such requirement
13:41 < knowmerc1> it's a class without any class :)
13:41 < zozoR> i made a c application, that loops nothing 1e9 times, takes
1.5 seconds to run
13:41 < zozoR> go version only takes 0.7 seconds
13:41 < exch> unoptimized C?
13:42 < zozoR> dunno
13:42 < zozoR> just gcc c.c
13:42 < knowmerc1> :)
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13:42 < exch> ok.  no optimization then
13:42 < zozoR> c.c being main() {int i; for(i=0;i<1e9;i++){}}
13:43 < str1ngs> gcc -march=native -mtune=native -O3 c.c . try that
13:44 < zozoR> 1.2
13:44 < str1ngs> hehe not much to optimize really
13:44 < zozoR> go is faster than c
13:44 < zozoR> now people can shut up :D
13:44 < aiju> hahaha
13:44 < aiju> 15:43 < str1ngs> gcc -march=native -mtune=native -O3 c.c
. try that
13:45 < aiju> -march= / -mtune= is bullshit
13:45 < zozoR> :3
13:45 < str1ngs> everything to use is bullshit
13:45 < str1ngs> you(*
13:45 < aiju> no, it doesn't make shit fater
13:45 < aiju> but whatever
13:45 < zozoR> aiju, how do i make it faster?
13:45 < aiju> gcc -O2 or -O3
13:45 < str1ngs> aiju: sure it does.  are you on crack?
13:46 < aiju> str1ngs: haha, are YOU on crack?
13:46 < aiju> just because it makes compile times longer doesn't make it
makes programs faster
13:46 < zozoR> aiju, 1.6
13:47 < str1ngs> try -march=native on atom and then report back
13:47 < zozoR> on atom?
13:47 < aiju> haha atom
13:47 < knowmerc1> I have an atom
13:47 < knowmerc1> what's the code?
13:47 < zozoR> main() {int i; for(i=0;i<1e9;i++){}}
13:47 < zozoR> that would be the C code
13:48 < str1ngs> this code will do nothing pointless try it on something
else
13:48 < zozoR> package main; func main() { for i:=0;i<1e9;i++ {}}
13:48 < zozoR> is go
13:48 < nicka1> "jessta: nicka1: classes tend to group the methods with the
struct definition" not a real reason imo.  What I said was in response to "moraes:
you know what confused me in go.  lack of classes.  took me time to understand how
to organize stuff.  really."
13:48 < moraes> yeah i discovered that later
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13:48 < moraes> was not very obvious
13:48 < zozoR> go is obviously better at counting than C is
13:48 < zozoR> :3
13:48 < moraes> if you need real fast use c.  if you need real awesomeness
use go.  the end.
13:49 < zozoR> i already proved go was faster
13:49 < zozoR> ..  at counting
13:49 < moraes> depends.  bet someone would create an opposite example.
13:49 < moraes> lets do some regexes.
13:49 < zozoR> nah
13:49 < zozoR> i just won
13:49 < zozoR> dont want to spoil it
13:49 < zozoR> :D
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13:52 < knowmerc1> lol
13:52 < knowmerc1> time ./looper
13:52 < knowmerc1> real 0m1.271s
13:52 < knowmerc1> gcc -march=native looper.c
13:52 < knowmerc1> time ./a.out
13:52 < knowmerc1> real0m15.235s
13:53 < exch> no difference with march,mtune,O3 as opposed to just O3. At
least not on my main pc
13:54 < str1ngs> for this code I doubt you can optimize is much
13:54 < vegai> you could optimize the whole program away, since it's doing
nothing
13:55 < exch> Oh but it is.  It's taking up time :p
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14:01 < exch> it seems my first generation eeepc does a better job than your
atom, knowmerc1 :p
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14:02 < exch> ~12 seconds for unoptimized c
14:02 < exch> 900mhz intel celeron
14:03 < exch> actually, effective speed is 600 something
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14:08 < knowmerc1> exch: I'm on the 450 I thin
14:08 < knowmerc1> *think
14:08 < knowmerc1> cr-48
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14:17 < str1ngs> cr-48 is atom?
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14:24 < zippoxer> Go is at #24 on TIOBE
14:24 < zippoxer> was #32 last month.
14:25 < zippoxer> will it be #16 in 30 days?!
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14:29 < skelterjohn|work> yes.
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14:31 < exch> Careful what you wish for.  Wider exposure/'acceptance' also
means more questions like 'Why is it not more like <insert other
language>???'
14:33 < zippoxer> yeah but helpful people will come too = more libraries
14:33 < zippoxer> and more tools
14:34 < exch> true
14:35 < zippoxer> pro noobs will answer noobs for these questions
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14:39 < xyproto> and there will be more books and friendly tutorials
14:39 < xyproto> btw, about optimization, sometimes optimizing for size
results in quicker code ( -Os )
14:40 < jlaffaye> is there a pure go database in go?
14:40 < xyproto> and to a compiler, there are few things as fun as funroll
14:40 < jlaffaye> key-value, document or whatever
14:40 < xyproto> jlaffaye: there seems to be good couchdb support
14:40 < xyproto> jlaffaye: other than that, you have plain maps
14:41 < xyproto> jlaffaye: but this is not really what you asked :D
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14:41 < jlaffaye> yes, Im looking for durability
14:41 < jlaffaye> so it has to hit the disk
14:42 < xyproto> jlaffaye: no, there is no built-in database written in go
included with go, as far as I know
14:42 < xyproto> jlaffaye: nor can I find any go package that comes with go
named something with sql or with db that is database related
14:42 < skelterjohn|work> you can write maps to files using gob
14:43 < skelterjohn|work> i feel like a go is a good language to create a
database server wth
14:43 < skelterjohn|work> unfortunately i don't know much about databases,
so i'm probably not the right one to do it
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14:43 < xyproto> jlaffaye: how about gosqlite:
http://code.google.com/p/gosqlite/source/browse/sqlite/sqlite.go
14:43 < jlaffaye> with gob, would you be able to append things to the file?
or you need to rewrite for each write?
14:44 < xyproto> jlaffaye: I don't think you would get the benefits that
databases has
14:44 < skelterjohn|work> xyproto: it's not just an interface to the C lib?
14:45 < skelterjohn|work> no, it is
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14:46 < xyproto> skelterjohn|work: yes, it is just an interface to the
sqlite C lib
14:46 < xyproto> skelterjohn|work: or did you mean no=
14:46 < xyproto> ?
14:46 < skelterjohn|work> i apologize for the ambiguous grammar
14:47 < skelterjohn|work> that sqlite interface is not pure go.  that's what
i meant to say
14:47 < xyproto> skelterjohn|work: the effects of the confusion is still
harassing my brain ;)
14:47 < skelterjohn|work> sqlite is open source / public domain, though...
i wonder how hard it would be to port it
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14:51 < zippoxer> there is something called calimstore:
http://camlistore.org/
14:51 < zippoxer> written in pure go, not yet released
14:53 < jessta> jlaffaye: http://code.google.com/p/diskv/ seems to be at an
early stage
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14:53 < jlaffaye> jessta: thanks
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15:00 < zippoxer> shouldn't Go have sqlite library built-in?
15:00 < zippoxer> one of Go goods are almost complete standard library
15:00 < zippoxer> is*
15:01 < knowmerc1> is the author of mango in here?
15:01 < vegai> one of Go's goods is that the standard library doesn't
include everything
15:01 < vegai> although a high quality sqlite lib I wouldn't oppose
15:01 < knowmerc1> I found a bug in his session stuff last night where it
doesn't set a cookie as expected even in the sample code
15:01 < jessta> zippoxer: the more code in the standard library the more
load on the devs to maintain it
15:02 < knowmerc1> and the less quickly it gets updated
15:02 < jlaffaye> vegai: the gosqlite is written by rsc :)
15:03 < zippoxer> but if it's just a standard sqlite3 binding
15:03 < zippoxer> they shouldn't update it often
15:03 < jessta> the standard library should really only include things that
most Go users are going to need
15:03 < vegai> people should probably use sqlite a bit more than they do
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15:04 < jessta> if you put sqlite supportin, then you'd end up putting
support for every database in
15:05 < zippoxer> i think a database is used very often
15:05 < skelterjohn|work> jessta: hence the crypto set of packages?  :)
15:05 < skelterjohn|work> zippoxer: fwiw, i have never used any sort of
database in any go code i have ever written
15:05 < jessta> skelterjohn|work: yeah it's a bit worrying
15:06 < zippoxer> skelterjohn|work: but don't forget, web applications is
one of main Go's uses
15:06 < zippoxer> and they require a database
15:06 < zippoxer> most of them..
15:06 < skelterjohn|work> not my main use.
15:06 < jessta> zippoxer: web applications require a web server, that is all
15:07 < zippoxer> anyway I think Go will have some package used to store
data on the disk
15:07 < skelterjohn|work> gob :)
15:08 < zippoxer> ohh..  it's also something :p
15:08 < skelterjohn|work> marshalling to/from xml is easy enough, too
15:08 < skelterjohn|work> just won't be speedy
15:08 < jessta> there are drivers for a lot of databases, just a goinstall
away
15:09 < zippoxer> actually, I just need to remember gosqlite repo's url and
goinstall it everytime I move to a new machine..
15:09 < skelterjohn|work> or you can build your project with gb and tell it
to goinstall anything that it needs to
15:10 < zippoxer> nice!  i didn't know it can..
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15:10 < skelterjohn|work> it does a lot of stuff.
http://go-gb.googlecode.com
15:10 < skelterjohn|work> disclaimer - you can goinstall your local
projects, too, and it will get remote packages
15:11 < skelterjohn|work> but using goinstall for local projects is a huge
pain, imo
15:12 < zippoxer> i used it consistently until I started contributing to a
Go project which doesn't use it
15:13 < skelterjohn|work> if that go project is goinstallable, gb can build
it (or else it's a bug and please tell me)
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16:28 < f2f> with the latest changes compile times went down to 3m from
3m20s.  now all.bash is a full minute faster than it was three weeks ago :)
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16:38 < str1ngs> f2f: how long does ./make.bash take?
16:39 < erus`> how did you guys get into programming?
16:39 < str1ngs> erus`: punch cards and crayons :P
16:39 < erus`> old fogey
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16:44 < f2f> make.bash is 19 seconds, which has been pretty static for the
past year or so.  it was the tests that were taking the majority of the time and
those benefitted from Dmitry's work
16:45 < str1ngs> right makes senses
16:45 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts
16:45 < str1ngs> ..  no pun :P
16:45 < f2f> back in 2009 make in src/pkg was 9 seconds, now it's 16 -- go
has grown :)
16:45 < str1ngs> its still fast
16:46 < str1ngs> gcc toolchain takes like 40min
16:46 < str1ngs> actually probably gcc alone just takes 40min without
--disable-bootstrap
16:46 < erus`> yeah but gcc has generics
16:46 < f2f> my benchmark are the plan9 c compilers who do a kernel in less
than 10 seconds :)
16:46 < str1ngs> lol what kernel though?
16:47 < f2f> generic.  about 3 megs worth ot binary in the end.  100k lines
of code
16:47 < str1ngs> is that some VM kernel for plan9?
16:48 < aiju> it's a real plan 9 kernel
16:48 < aiju> in 20 seconds on my machine
16:48 < aiju> lots of that is creating the initrd in a rather inefficient
way
16:48 < str1ngs> what hardware does that support though?  x86?
16:48 < aiju> well
16:48 < f2f> x86 yes
16:49 < str1ngs> hmm do you have link, seems intresting
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16:53 < f2f> a link to what?
16:53 < aiju> kernel source?
16:53 < str1ngs> it ok I found what i need already :P
16:54 < aiju> anyone know the size of Mach?  ;P
16:54 < aiju> would be hilarious if our monolithic kernel is larger than
their microkernel
16:54 < aiju> ehm
16:54 < aiju> *smaller :)
16:56 < f2f> $ du -sh /mach_kernel
16:56 < f2f> 15M /mach_kernel
16:56 < aiju> hahahaha
16:56 < aiju> is that the binary?
16:56 < f2f> appears to be.
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16:57 < str1ngs> aiju: from what I read though the plan9 is actually hybrid.
but that term is kinda vague I guess
16:58 < aiju> nope
16:58 < aiju> plan 9 is pretty monolithic
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16:58 < aiju> most device drivers and TCP/IP are in the kernel
16:58 < f2f> things do bloat.  it's annoying that i experience the same
sluggishness with Lion even though i'm running it on a much faster hardware.  go
doesn't experience this yet
16:58 < str1ngs> what are the limitations with the kernel if any.  can you
say run X server?
16:59 < aiju> str1ngs: well define X server
16:59 < str1ngs> X windows
16:59 < aiju> there is equis which is a X server for Plan 9
16:59 < aiju> there is even an xterm port iirc
16:59 < aiju> usually you use that X server with linuxemu, though
16:59 < str1ngs> hmm maybe I should ask what is plan 9 way of running a gui?
ie terminal emulator
16:59 < f2f> str1ngs, it has support for less hardware.  you run X in
userland, as a user process.  it has support for graphics though
16:59 < aiju> str1ngs: rio
17:00 < str1ngs> so rio would be enough?
17:00 < aiju> well
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17:00 < aiju> there is the kernel draw device which actually draws stuff
17:00 < f2f> which are done via /dev/draw and friends
17:00 < aiju> there are the VGA drivers (in kernel) and the VGA init code
(in userspace)
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17:00 < str1ngs> hmm actually I could probably get away with no gui
17:01 < str1ngs> just rc would be strange I guess
17:01 < aiju> rio is a program running on top of that to provide windows
17:01 < aiju> and terminal emulation
17:01 < aiju> str1ngs: rc doesn't have history or job control
17:01 < str1ngs> or vi binding, which for me would suck
17:01 < str1ngs> but I could get by I guess
17:01 < f2f> you only need gui on terminals.  i run cpu servers headless and
connect with a kernel capable of drawing on whatever platform i'm no
17:01 < f2f> s/run/ran :)
17:02 < aiju> str1ngs: the only non-GUI editor is ed
17:02 < f2f> anyway, sorry for the digression everybody :)
17:02 < str1ngs> ouch
17:02 < str1ngs> so what do you use for a editor acme?
17:02 < aiju> sam
17:02 < f2f> acme here.
17:02 < str1ngs> aiju: btw when I say vi binding I mean readline.  set -o vi
17:02 < aiju> str1ngs: ya i know
17:03 < aiju> no such thing in rc
17:03 < str1ngs> kk
17:03 < crunge> real programmers do all their editing by redirecting from
cat into a patch
17:03 < aiju> rc doesn't have line editing either
17:03 < aiju> crunge: a patch?  WIMP!
17:03 < str1ngs> ya that would be stranch
17:03 < str1ngs> strange*
17:03 < aiju> crunge: you mean dd seek=
17:03 < aiju> real programmers leave tons of whitespace in order to be able
to insert code later with dd
17:04 < crunge> It's like a source-code NOP sled
17:04 < aiju> of course *real* programmer write raw machine code in hex
17:04 < erus`> pff hex
17:04 < erus`> binary
17:05 < str1ngs> crayons and punch cards :P
17:05 < aiju> binary is actually easier on some machines
17:05 < crunge> I usually use dragon naturally speaking to dictate base64
machine code
17:05 < erus`> lol
17:05 < crunge> it corrects my spelling and I get real speed optimizations.
Who knew?
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17:05 < erus`> i run a random generator until i get the desired result
17:05 * aiju has written raw machine code in octal for PDP-11
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17:06 < crunge> ...by candle light
17:06 < erus`> and i use bogosort
17:06 < aiju> pff bogosort
17:06 < aiju> quantum bogosort or gtfo
17:06 < crunge> ...in php
17:06 < erus`> quantum bogosort is O(1)?
17:06 < erus`> thats too quick for me
17:06 < aiju> erus`: don't you know it?
17:06 < crunge> Quantum PHP.  Surely this is how we bring the elder gods
into this world.
17:07 < aiju> quantum bogosort
17:07 < aiju> randomize list, if not sorted, blow up the universe
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17:07 < aiju> the only remaining universe will have the list sorted
17:07 < erus`> Quantum php = end of the human race
17:07 < KirkMcDonald> Quantum bonobosort?
17:07 < crunge> So is that O(0) or O(INF)?
17:07 < aiju> crunge: O(1)
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17:07 < erus`> its O(1)
17:07 < erus`> just a high failure rate
17:08 < aiju> there are no observers to observe it failing
17:08 < erus`> they did exist at some point
17:08 < erus`> they both exist and dont exist
17:09 < crunge> Schrodingersort?
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17:42 < skelterjohn|work> with exp/template, if the cursor (.) points to
something that's an interface, is it possible to switch on the type?
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18:06 < skelterjohn|work>
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/golang-nuts/d1S3uW8-vyA/discussion
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18:09 < Halavanja> So if you use the interface of the http.ResponseWriter,
how can you read the data back in the calling function, or even if you are passing
the interface on to lets say a logger that was created?
18:10 < Halavanja> I guess the main question is how do I log status codes
that are sent to http.ListenAndServe so that i know what happened in the handler
function?
18:10 < skelterjohn|work> without fully understanding your question,
http.ListenAndServe is a helper function that you might not want to use if you
want fine control over what happens
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18:39 < skelterjohn|work> kevlar_work: you around?
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18:42 < kevlar_work> skelterjohn, hey
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18:45 < skelterjohn|work> nvm, russ answered
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19:08 < fluffle> ok, so the goto change in r59 completely breaks the go
backend for ragel
19:08 < fluffle> which kind of relies on the old behaviour to construct it's
state machines
19:09 < skelterjohn|work> it was goto-ing to a different case in a switch,
right?
19:09 < fluffle> yes
19:09 < skelterjohn|work> well, don't know what to tell ya
19:10 < fluffle> unfortunately my comp sci skillset is way below the level
needed to work out if it's fixable
19:10 < skelterjohn|work> change switches to if-elseif-elseif
19:10 < skelterjohn|work> not elegant
19:10 < skelterjohn|work> but it will have the same meaning, and allow you
to goto as you will
19:10 < fluffle> ouch
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19:12 < wrtp> skelterjohn|work: goinstall for local projects should be
better when gotest works with GOPATH
19:12 < jlaffaye> when you make a package, you have to install it to use it?
19:13 < skelterjohn|work> that's one thing that would improve it.  it will
still be sorely lacking
19:13 < jlaffaye> what if my package is local and I dont want to install it
19:13 < skelterjohn|work> jlaffaye: no, not if you use goinstall or gb
19:13 < skelterjohn|work> or gofr, or gd, or gobuild
19:13 < str1ngs> ww: ping
19:13 < skelterjohn|work> goinstall comes with the go distribution
(http://golang.org/cmd/goinstall)
19:14 < skelterjohn|work> i wrote gb (http://go-gb.googlecode.com)
19:14 < ww> str1ngs: heya
19:14 < ww> heading out in a few minutes...  what's new?
19:14 < str1ngs> ww: I have a working gnu userland on my android
19:14 < str1ngs> ww: with..  gcc :P
19:14 < jlaffaye> and I was thinking of proj/{client,server,common}
19:14 < jlaffaye> and common is used by the others
19:14 < ww> str1ngs: that's great!
19:14 < str1ngs> ww: thought you might find it instresting
19:14 < skelterjohn|work> jlaffaye: yes - any of the tools can do what you
want - take a look at the two i linked
19:14 < str1ngs> ww: going to try and natively build go
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> str1ngs: oh neat - good luck
19:15 < str1ngs> ww: which will make cgo easier
19:15 < str1ngs> ww: btw it uses eglibc
19:15 < ww> str1ngs: certainly...
19:15 < aiju> eglibc -- glibc for all the crap architectures out there
19:16 < ww> ...  i wonder about talking to the hardware at that point
actually
19:16 < ww> ...  wonder if there's anything to be salvaged of openmoko for
example
19:16 < skelterjohn|work> i think aiju could be replaced by a robot and no
one would notice for a long time
19:16 < str1ngs> aiju: its better then bionic
19:16 < aiju> also i was parodying ulrich drepper
19:16 < jlaffaye> skelterjohn|work: gb looks like what I want, thanks
19:16 < skelterjohn|work> :)
19:16 < str1ngs> aiju: lol
19:16 < aiju> skelterjohn|work could be replaced by a robot which just gives
wrong answers to all Go questions
19:16 < str1ngs> ok that was actually funny aiju
19:16 < aiju> and no one would notice
19:16 < skelterjohn|work> oh, burn
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19:17 < ww> anyhow, good luck str1ngs...  looking forward to the sequel
19:17 * ww waves
19:18 < fluffle> skelterjohn|work: ragel makes liberal use of "fallthrough"
19:18 < skelterjohn|work> fluffle: how does it work with java, where there
is no goto?
19:19 < aiju> god damnit
19:20 < aiju> it's way too fucking easy to get absolutely nonsensical
behaviour with opengl
19:20 < nicka1> ahah ues
19:20 < nicka1> yes
19:20 < aiju> i could as well just read from /dev/urandom and draw it to the
screen
19:20 < nicka1> I recall setting line width too high and things turned red
19:21 < nicka1> but there was never any gl error
19:21 < aiju> gl errors are myths
19:21 < fluffle> skelterjohn|work: it can't use the same "fast" FSM, so it
just uses a table-based one instead
19:21 < aiju> if cars were made like opengl, any mistake by the driver would
just disable the brakes
19:22 < fluffle> using that method effectively requires re-writing the Go
backend from scratch
19:22 < skelterjohn|work> maybe post to the mailing list and see if anyone
has suggestions
19:22 < nicka1> sounds like toyota made opengl
19:22 < fluffle> i will, i think.
19:23 < aiju> i mean i have two textures
19:23 < fluffle> for the moment r59 brought in a much better regexp package,
so I should be able to just use that instead
19:23 < aiju> both initialized to black
19:23 < aiju> with the same function
19:23 < aiju> and ONE IS WHITE
19:23 < fluffle> thanks for the pointers anyway :)
19:23 < exch> aiju: doing it wrong then
19:23 < aiju> no shit sherlock
19:23 < skelterjohn|work> lol
19:23 < exch> no need to blame opengl for that :p
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19:24 < nicka1> did r59 replace the old regexp package?
19:24 < aiju> well
19:24 < skelterjohn|work> nicka1: there is now exp/regexp
19:24 < skelterjohn|work> the old regexp is still there
19:24 < aiju> opengl makes "doing it wrong" very easy
19:24 < skelterjohn|work> but its days are numbered
19:24 < nicka1> just checking if it was still exp/regexp
19:24 < skelterjohn|work> just like template and exp/template
19:24 < skelterjohn|work> ah
19:24 < nicka1> I am glad I can non-greedily match things now
19:25 < aiju> soon we will have exp/net
19:25 < aiju> which implements BSD sockets
19:25 < aiju> s = net.Socket(net.AF_INET, net.SOCK_STREAM, 0)
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19:29 < jlaffaye> ok, first patch for gb, use gmake on FreeBSD for the -m
option :)
19:30 < skelterjohn|work> very interesting
19:30 < aiju> awesome
19:30 < aiju> glGenTexture returns 0
19:30 < skelterjohn|work> jlaffaye: if you send me a patch (ideally using
github) i'll include it
19:32 < aiju> awesome it doesn't set an error code!
19:33 < nicka1> 0 is a valid texture object id
19:33 < skelterjohn|work> jlaffaye: on second thought...  there is a
particular way i'd want to make that patch, so maybe i had better do it myself
19:33 < aiju> nicka1: so why does it return the same texture object id
several times in a row?
19:33 < jlaffaye> skelterjohn|work: ok :)
19:33 < nicka1> well it shouldn't return the same id multiple times
19:34 < jlaffaye> skelterjohn|work: can you ping me when its pushed?
19:34 < skelterjohn|work> sure
19:34 < skelterjohn|work> GOOS is freebsd in this case, right?
19:34 < skelterjohn|work> will freebsd never have make, always gmake?
19:35 < jlaffaye> skelterjohn|work: yes, freebsd
19:35 < skelterjohn|work> actually i should probably just have it use
gomake....
19:35 < jlaffaye> make is bsdmake on freebsd :)
19:35 < skelterjohn|work> since gomake already knows how to use the right
one
19:35 < str1ngs> doh make.bash needs which
19:35 < jlaffaye> and bsdmake doesnt like the syntax of the includes
Makefiles
19:35 < skelterjohn|work> jlaffaye: does gomake work for you?
19:36 < jlaffaye> sure
19:36 < skelterjohn|work> you've tried it?  on my machine it just runs make
19:37 < skelterjohn|work> perhaps for other platforms it gets created
differently
19:37 < jlaffaye> yes it uses gmake
19:39 < fluffle> okay, (at least) the ragel-users list already knows.  Mail
sent
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19:41 < skelterjohn|work> jlaffaye: i've pushed it to the repo - but i
haven't added it to the release branch or the downloadable
19:41 < skelterjohn|work> (too much effort)
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19:44 < jlaffaye> skelterjohn|work: actually, there is a make in the ./build
:)
19:44 < skelterjohn|work> ack!
19:44 < skelterjohn|work> easy to fix
19:49 < qeed> how do you get golang to see any type as just a stream of
bytes and be able to send that
19:50 < aiju> awesome
19:50 < aiju> now i'm sending closures with GL code down a channel to a
runtime.LockOSThread'd goroutine
19:51 < aiju> opengl is actively hostile to being used from Go
19:51 < skelterjohn|work> jlaffaye: pushed
19:51 < f2f> qeed, i don't believe you can.  you'll either need to do your
own marshalling/unmarshalling or use something like the gob package.
19:51 < skelterjohn|work> qeed, f2f: you can use unsafe, but it's probably a
bad idea
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19:52 < qeed> heh im trying to use opengl with golang right now
19:52 < skelterjohn|work> since that won't respect things like aiju's
sensibilities and endianness
19:52 < qeed> not sure how i would use buffersubdata
19:52 < qeed> and stuff since that just wants bytes
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19:52 < aiju> 21:49 < qeed> how do you get golang to see any type as
just a stream of bytes and be able to send that
19:52 < exch> converting stuff to/from raw byte representations is a recipe
for disaster as it allows one to circumvent Go's type system
19:52 < aiju> send that over what?
19:52 < aiju> fucking network?
19:52 < qeed> to opengl
19:53 < aiju> uh huh
19:53 < skelterjohn|work> can also try
http://localhost:6060/pkg/encoding/binary/#Write
19:53 < jlaffaye> skelterjohn|work: neat!  thanks.
19:53 < aiju> qeed: don't forget to LockOSThread
19:53 < skelterjohn|work> to opengl?  do you have an array that you want to
turn into a uint8* or somthing?
19:53 < skelterjohn|work> because to do that you can just say &theSlice[0]
19:54 < skelterjohn|work> and that is the pointer to the C-style array
19:54 < qeed> yeah i have some vertex data i want to send using
glbuffersubdata
19:54 < skelterjohn|work> then &theSlice[0] is what you want
19:56 < skelterjohn|work> hmm, i have some data that when i write it to
stdout it looks fine, if i write it to a file and print it with cat it looks fine,
but if i use less parts of it "look like they're binary"
19:56 < skelterjohn|work> and these parts correspond exactly to the sections
of an exp/template that invokes a function (which returns a string)
19:56 < skelterjohn|work> invoke
19:57 < nicka1> use &slice[0] as skelterjohn said
19:58 < nicka1> the buffer functions take void* I think so you may need to
cast it to unsafe.Pointer
19:58 < nicka1> unless there is a better way to do that
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20:20 < wrtp> nicka1: i think a better way (as part of the opengl package)
would be for the package to provide a "Buffer" type (with concealed unsafe.Pointer
inside) and functions for translating from various slice types to a Buffer.  that
way clients can avoid the need to use unsafe.
20:21 < skelterjohn|work> that's a good idea.
20:22 < nicka1> that's a great idea wrtp.  I'll probably borrow it if I ever
get around to writing a gl wrapper
20:23 < wrtp> you're welcome to
20:25 < qeed> i am using banthar opengl package and it has that and it
support transfering of all the golang native types, i just asked since i wanted to
see how i would do it for structs
20:26 < skelterjohn|work> oh it does?  i use it to but I never noticed that
20:26 < qeed> well bufferdata takes an interface in banthar package and it
checks for uint8, double, float, int, etc.
20:27 < skelterjohn|work> *use it too
20:28 < nicka1> well qeed those functions just take the size of the data so
unsafe.Sizeof(struct)*len(slice) would work
20:29 < nicka1> for the size param I mean
20:29 < nicka1> I assume you can work reflect in there somewhere, and just
take a []interface{}
20:29 < nicka1> as the buffer data, I mean
20:30 < skelterjohn|work> take a []interface{}?  why?
20:31 < nicka1> interleaving data is common, so ideally it would work with
struct types
20:31 < wrtp> nicka1: interface{} not []interface{} is better
20:31 < wrtp> that way you can pass in []int
20:31 < wrtp> or whatever
20:31 < nicka1> right
20:31 < qeed> whats the difference with []interface{} and interface{} havent
used interface enough to know?
20:31 < qeed> one is an array of it?
20:32 < skelterjohn|work> a slice, yeah
20:32 < nicka1> I am in the same boat apparently :P
20:32 < skelterjohn|work> you can't go from []Something to []interface{}
directly
20:32 < skelterjohn|work> because []interface{} is not an interface
20:32 < skelterjohn|work> it's a slice
20:33 < nicka1> generally though you're going to be passing a slice of
something to these functions
20:33 < skelterjohn|work> then they can accept them in an interface{} and
use reflect to deal with it
20:33 < skelterjohn|work> or type assert to []int8, []float64, whatever
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20:34 < nicka1> good point, I guess there's no point in making it a
[]interface{} over interface{} if you're going to need to do the type assertion
anyway
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20:35 < skelterjohn|work> more to the point, it's an O(length) operation to
convert from []Type to []interface{}
20:37 < nicka1> I suppose I should do some more work with interface types
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20:51 < wrtp> nicka1: it's definitely worth it.  they're possibly the only
unique single feature of Go.
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21:30 < skelterjohn|work> nicka1:
http://code.google.com/p/go-wiki/wiki/InterfaceSlice
21:32 < nicka1> thanks
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21:37 < nicka1> is there a general go users wiki yet?  this one has
restricted access iirc
21:37 < Namegduf> Need to stop people from putting guides to simulating
exceptions up there.
21:37 < Namegduf> :P
21:38 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts
21:38 < nicka1> the try/catch thing on the mailinglist a couple weeks back
should be enough to stop anyone from doing that
21:39 < Namegduf> I wish.
21:39 < Namegduf> I'm pretty sure it'd been on the mailing list before, and
there were people suggesting it as a real solution for "where people need or want
exceptions"
21:39 -!- nicka1 [~lerp@142.176.0.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:40 < uriel> Namegduf: :(
21:41 -!- nicka [~lerp@unaffiliated/nicka] has joined #go-nuts
21:42 < skelterjohn|work> nicka: have to ask for access to that wiki
21:42 < skelterjohn|work> but brad will probably add you if you ask
21:42 < skelterjohn|work> he just added me, and i just wrote that wiki on
interface slices
21:43 < nicka> I don't think I'm quite to that point of language mastery
yet, but I'll keep it in mind
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22:02 < uriel> skelterjohn|work: somebody should add to the CommonMistakes
page: Using container/vector when slices and append() will do
22:03 < exch> go ahead
22:03 < uriel> (another one: using goroutines for minusculous amount of work
expecting perf improvements and isntead making things worse)
22:03 < uriel> exch: I have no edit acces, and I'm lazy ;P
22:06 < exch> There is a similar post on stackoverflow which lists common
mistakes in Go
22:06 < exch> You can always put it there :p
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22:07 < exch>
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5033605/common-programming-mistakes-for-go-developers-to-avoid/
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22:11 < f2f> we need more help sites for trivial problems.  MORE!
22:13 < f2f> what learning pattern leads to a newbie saying 'i don't know
much about the language yet, but i'll make sure to memorize all these "common
mistakes" so i can avoid them when i get to writing code eventually'
22:13 < Tv__> there's a php for that
22:14 < f2f> 'common error values when adding two and two together': [0, 2)
V [3, inf)
22:14 < f2f> s/V/U
22:15 < Tv__> that's like the old adage about complaining about other
people's grammar with broken sentences
22:17 < Tv__> (hint: 1 != 2)
22:17 < exch> Considering the amount of votes and the amount of similar
pages for other languages there are, I'd say at least some people find it useful.
I'm not among them, but everyone learns in their ow way
22:17 < exch> *own
22:17 < Tv__> exch: decent summary of stackoverflow as a whole
22:17 < Tv__> it has a few gems amongst quite a lot of noise
22:17 < exch> yes
22:18 < Tv__> "hay guys how do i do arithmetic in jquery" is still my
favorite
22:18 < exch> :p
22:18 < aiju> how do i shoot webs?
22:19 < str1ngs> but on your damn tights first off.
22:19 < str1ngs> put*
22:19 < f2f> lolcats also get lots of votes online.  and most arguments
pro-Go are shot down on reddit.  you can't explain that :p
22:19 < exch> What irks me most about SO is how all the shit answers get
upvoted to proposterous levels.
22:20 < exch> the whole voting thing is just misguided for that place
22:20 < Namegduf> Voting is fine for real questions
22:20 < str1ngs> exch: I dont wast my time with that site.
22:20 < Namegduf> Questions like "What is the best <abstract
question>" as well as things like that, which aren't questions, they're
listings
22:20 < Namegduf> Are crappy on it.
22:21 < exch> str1ngs: I ould prefer not to either, but my blood just boils
hen someone is wrong on the internet
22:21 < exch> *would
22:21 < skelterjohn|work> "common mistakes" pages are best for when someone
comes here and asks why his or her code isn't working - we can just point them to
the page
22:21 * f2f also completely missed the SO bandwagon
22:22 * Namegduf isn't registered there, but regularly finds answers to things he
searches for on Google there
22:22 < f2f> a good Go book will solve a lot of the issues of guiding
newbies
22:22 < skelterjohn|work> what C header has free() defined?
22:22 < aiju> skelterjohn|work: stdlib.h
22:22 < skelterjohn|work> that's what i thought...  having trouble freeing
stuff from cgo
22:22 < skelterjohn|work> maybe i'm including wrong
22:23 < str1ngs> exch: the reality is people hide behind anonymity , see
that everywhere.
22:23 < aiju> omg people hide behind anonymity
22:23 < str1ngs> exch: atleast on the internet
22:23 < skelterjohn|work> ahah - i had "stdlib.h"
22:23 < aiju> ON THE INTERNET
22:23 < exch> crazy, right?
22:23 < aiju> yeah
22:23 < str1ngs> aiju is a good example
22:24 < aiju> hahahahaha
22:24 < aiju> i'm far from anonymous
22:24 < exch> we should get rid of anonimity and just require everyone to
log on with their real name and social security number
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22:25 < str1ngs> ok do we realy need to have hg to build go.  thats kinda
abit much I think
22:25 < skelterjohn|work> str1ngs: now that googlecode supports git maybe
you can suggest a change
22:25 < str1ngs> no I dont mean that way
22:25 < aiju> Go should use CVS
22:25 < aiju> i should suggest a change
22:25 < str1ngs> it errors out building if hg is not installed do to
versioning
22:25 < skelterjohn|work> but you can certainly clone it on one place and
then copy it to your android platform
22:25 < skelterjohn|work> oh
22:25 < skelterjohn|work> well comment that line out of the makefile
22:26 < str1ngs> ya I'll hack it but.  imo just not be a hard dependancy
like that
22:26 < str1ngs> it out*
22:26 < str1ngs> whats strangers is if hg is installed and its not a hg tree
it silently continues
22:27 < str1ngs> touch ~/bin/hg; chmod 755 ~/bin/hg
22:27 < aiju> haha
22:28 < skelterjohn|work> just have that be a script to echo a version :)
22:28 < Tv__> src/version.bash bitches but exits 0 without .hg
22:28 < str1ngs> lol..  this is for aiju ..  builtin echo "ANDROID GOOO!"
22:29 < Tv__> probably enough to add if [ ! -e .hg ]; then exit 0; fi in the
beginning
22:29 < str1ngs> I should make an issue I guess
22:31 < aiju> builtin shut up str1ngs with your strawman arguments
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22:33 < str1ngs> -bash: builtin: shut: not a shell builtin
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22:38 < str1ngs> awk: fatal: cannot open file `ANDROID!' for reading (No
such file or directory
22:38 < str1ngs> lol?
22:38 < aiju> Go doesn't like android it seems
22:38 < str1ngs> failed hack :(
22:38 * str1ngs shake fist
22:39 < str1ngs> ok plan B
22:39 < aiju> maybe Go is allergic to XML and Java?
22:39 < str1ngs> grep hg *
22:39 < Tv__> it doesn't count as an allergy when you get a rash from toxins
22:40 < jlaffaye> I should really use netchan
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22:49 < str1ngs> does hg have something like gitattributes?
22:49 < str1ngs> thinking it might be easier to have a version file with $id
22:50 < str1ngs> this way its not dependant on hg proper
22:50 < aiju> "gitattributes"?
22:50 < str1ngs> cvs id tags
22:50 < aiju> these funny things they put in files?
22:53 < str1ngs> aiju do you even use go?
22:53 < aiju> right now
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22:54 < str1ngs> because frankly all you seem to do is bitch . but I never
hear you talk about go
22:54 < aiju> oh i talk about go
22:54 < aiju> you just don't listen when i do
22:54 < aiju> like i answer questions people have
22:55 < str1ngs> hard to catch that one good thing through the 100 other
troll things.
22:55 < aiju> same with you
22:55 < nicka> I came for go, I stay to hear aiju bitch
22:55 < Tv__> kids, kids
22:55 < str1ngs> I dont troll at all
22:55 < aiju> so what makes me "troll" and you "not troll"?
22:56 < aiju> but Tv__ is right
22:56 < str1ngs> ie this hg version thing is a legitimate problem.  and your
off on some other spin about funny things in files
22:56 < aiju> back to code
22:57 < aiju> well, i'm using hg and i was asking what you mean
22:57 < aiju> // $Id: node_example.module,v 1.14 2005/10/21 13:36:28 dries
Exp $
22:57 < aiju> so you mean these?
22:57 < str1ngs> right
22:57 < aiju> can't you use a hook for that?
22:58 < str1ngs> $Id get replaced by the commit sha1
22:58 < aiju> for that version thing one could just use a hook to write the
commit version into a file
22:58 < str1ngs> hmm but that might be done on check out not commit?
22:59 < Tv__> please no $Id$..  if you wanna figure out how to it well,
perhaps git's makefile can serve as inspiration
22:59 < str1ngs> Tv__: no no this is just for one file
22:59 < Tv__> as i recall it manages to do the right thing very well
22:59 < str1ngs> ie version
22:59 < Tv__> oh you like your RCS huh?
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22:59 < str1ngs> rcs?
23:00 < aiju> rcs is even older than cvs
23:00 < str1ngs> ah well something like that
23:00 < str1ngs> if it add the sha1 id on commit then.  hg would need be
needed to get the version number
23:01 < str1ngs> so you can tarball etc
23:01 < str1ngs> even use git.
23:01 < str1ngs> and not have hg as build dependancy
23:01 < aiju> post to the mailing list?
23:01 < Tv__> str1ngs: umm.  eww.
23:01 < str1ngs> Tv__: how is that eww?
23:02 < str1ngs> hg has a large dependancy tree
23:02 < Tv__> str1ngs: because the world has moved on from $Id$, and you
don't even know why
23:02 < Tv__> yet you are reinventing it
23:02 < str1ngs> this is for one file
23:02 < aiju> that's not even his point
23:02 < str1ngs> I think miss my point here.
23:02 < str1ngs> I'll google it
23:03 < Tv__> str1ngs: is this some personal project of yours, or something
i care about like go?  if the latter, definitely please don't emulate $Id$
23:03 < str1ngs> Tv__: you are missing the problem at hand
23:03 < str1ngs> right no as it stands you need to have hg installed in
order to build go
23:03 < str1ngs> when imo that makes no sense
23:04 < str1ngs> if hg is installed and there is no hg tree it will silent
fail on versioning
23:04 < str1ngs> one $id tag and only one could possibly solve this
23:04 < str1ngs> since all you have to do is head -1 version
23:05 < str1ngs> maybe an awk.
23:05 < Tv__> as i said a long time ago, you can add if [ ! -e .hg ]; then
exit 0; fi at the top of src/version.bash and it'll behave like it does now
23:05 < aiju> please, sed 1q
23:05 < str1ngs> aiju: sure that might be better
23:05 < str1ngs> Tv__: no because then you dont get a version
23:05 < str1ngs> it 6g -v
23:05 < str1ngs> -V
23:06 < Tv__> str1ngs: yes, it's ugly
23:06 < Tv__> str1ngs: way less ugly than $Id$, and actually fixable
23:06 < Tv__> the right fix is to add a version file to release tarballs &
code in support for the vcs's that mirror the go repo; afaik that's git
23:07 < str1ngs> I fail to see how python and hg ca-certs etc etc make sense
in building go
23:07 < aiju> ca-certs is vital
23:07 < str1ngs> only for hg
23:07 < aiju> someone could be supplying fake source!
23:07 < aiju> like, the FBI
23:07 < Tv__> str1ngs: if you don't want hg (or git), build from a release
tarball
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23:07 < str1ngs> aiju: lets assume I know for a fact the source is safe.  ie
I made the tarball
23:08 < str1ngs> Tv__: what realease tarball?
23:08 < str1ngs> as far as I know there are none
23:09 < Tv__> str1ngs: that would exist if you wanted to do it right
23:09 < Tv__> str1ngs: without a tarball, you need hg/git anyway to get the
source...
23:09 < str1ngs> still donest fix this the build system "untouched" requires
hg
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23:10 < str1ngs> if I tarball a hg tree.  still wont fix this
23:10 < Tv__> str1ngs: snapshot of vcs tree != standalone release
23:10 < Tv__> if you want to make a proper tarball of it, you can do it via
the same mechanism that'd generate the real release tarballs
23:11 < Tv__> then it gets the version file added
23:11 < str1ngs> which you are suggesting I build then tarball.  however
that has other issues
23:11 < Tv__> seriously, you're stuck about 10 years in the past, and i'd
love it if you didn't poison this well with that particular idea
23:11 < Tv__> i didn't say "build then tarball"
23:11 < Tv__> but whatever
23:11 < str1ngs> no you are stuck on not actually understanding the problem
23:11 < Tv__> i just hope people with commit access shout you down
23:12 < Tv__> str1ngs: go look at what git does, don't come back until you
get the trick
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23:12 < Tv__> str1ngs: you'll do the world a favor, seriously
23:12 < str1ngs> we are not talking git here we are talking hg
23:13 < Tv__> ok i'm not talking to you anymore; i just hope others refuse
your patch
23:13 < str1ngs> who said I made a patch.  wtf?
23:13 < Tv__> s/patch/ideas/whatever;
23:13 < Tv__> just please don't make the go repo uglier
23:13 < str1ngs> build go without hg..  report back
23:14 < str1ngs> better yet build go from tav's git mirror report back?
23:14 < Tv__> i've never built go form hg
23:14 < Tv__> from
23:14 < Tv__> i always use the git mirror
23:14 < str1ngs> 6g -V
23:14 < str1ngs> do it
23:14 < Tv__> i know it's broken
23:14 < Tv__> i told you how to fix it the right way
23:14 < Tv__> you chose not to listen
23:14 < Tv__> instead you tell me i don't know what you mean
23:14 < str1ngs> right but you have hg installed
23:14 < Tv__> whatever
23:14 < str1ngs> if hg is not installed you cant build at all
23:14 < str1ngs> which is pretty stupid
23:15 < Tv__> str1ngs: i told you how to work around that
23:15 < Tv__> str1ngs: and i told you how to fix it for real
23:15 < Tv__> str1ngs: obviously, i don't know what i'm talking about
23:15 < str1ngs> I have a fix that does not fix the actually real issue
23:15 < Tv__> anyway
23:15 < str1ngs> that hg should not be a build dependancy for go
23:15 < Tv__> this shitty client doesn't do /ignore so i'm gonna have to use
mental fortitude here
23:15 < str1ngs> retard
23:17 < nicka> kids, kids
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23:21 < str1ngs> Tv__: if you have a proper fix you should be posting a
patch.  not telling me not to.  or crapping on a suggestion
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23:21 < str1ngs> you seem to think I mean to use Id tags though the whole hg
tree.  when I suggest in only as a solution for one isolated issue
23:22 < Tv__> just as much pain
23:22 < Tv__> 1) if there are no release tarballs, it's not a huge issue;
once go stabilizes, those will be more wanted, and that'll push this feature 2) so
6g -V has an empty version, so what
23:22 < str1ngs> goinstall does not work properly without a version
23:22 < str1ngs> thats just one example
23:22 < Tv__> i have very little inclination to touch hg, so i'm not gonna
fix that part; migrate to git and i'll do it ;)
23:23 < str1ngs> second if hg is not installed at all it fails completly
23:23 < Tv__> str1ngs: 6g -V is empty for me and goinstall of github etc
repos works just fine
23:23 < str1ngs> third it silently fails without a hg tree
23:23 < Tv__> str1ngs: i gave you an easy workaround to the build failure,
that behaves just as good/bad as if hg was installed
23:23 < str1ngs> none of these are good under any situation
23:23 < Tv__> now stop arguing, there's nothing new said here, you need to
do your homework
23:24 < Tv__> look at how git does it
23:24 < str1ngs> git has nothing to do with it
23:24 < Tv__> no, you're just too thick to realize
23:24 < Tv__> and refusing to look
23:25 < Tv__> here, i'll hold your hand
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23:25 < str1ngs> post a link and I'll read it . still has nothing to do with
this
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23:25 < Tv__>
https://git.kernel.org/?p=git/git.git;a=blob;f=Makefile;h=4ed7996f7bcc3a044b0da54e8319fc0339ff009d;hb=HEAD#l258
23:26 < str1ngs> 2000 loc file are you serious
23:27 < Tv__> i even pointed at the right fucking line
23:27 < Tv__> i'm hiding this window now
23:27 < str1ngs> ./GIT-VERSION-GEN
23:27 < nicka> are you aiju in disguise
23:27 < str1ngs> nicka: ya starting to wonder here
23:28 < str1ngs> this channel needs active OP's this is getting stupid
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23:54 < str1ngs> Tv__: feel free to add your input to
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=2133
--- Log closed Fri Aug 05 00:00:19 2011