--- Log opened Mon Jul 04 00:00:54 2011
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01:31 < str1ngs> I was bored so I made a bitly client
https://gist.github.com/d20973db707e34610747
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01:40 < crazy2be> str1ngs: doesn't look too complex
01:40 < crazy2be> str1ngs: You want to help me get gojs to pass it's test
suite?
01:40 < crazy2be> :P
01:41 < str1ngs> if you make a CSL for jsonutil :P
01:43 < str1ngs> how upto date is your git repo for this?
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01:54 < magn3ts> this code just repeats the line received over and over and
over.  http://pastie.org/2160792
01:55 < str1ngs> mv err := to the right and use err != nil
01:56 < str1ngs> not tested but hopefully you understand what I mean
01:56 < str1ngs> magn3ts: easier to user for {} though for this
01:56 < str1ngs> and break if err == os.EOF
01:57 < magn3ts> oh I see what you're saying
01:57 < magn3ts> that's more readable too.  I think this type of pattern was
possible but I can't figure out the syntax or remember where I saw it used
01:58 < str1ngs> aye
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02:00 < magn3ts> Starting to really link sublime but I still keep using vim
keystrokes everywhere
02:01 < str1ngs> I'm not without vi bindings . set -o vi forlyfe
02:01 < str1ngs> lost*
02:02 < magn3ts> I thought you were saying you had some magical way of auto
adding vim bindings "forlyfe" to anything or something heh
02:02 < str1ngs> well for readline I can :P
02:03 < cmike007> i like sublime also
02:03 < cmike007> it's really easy to get going on it
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02:12 < str1ngs> crazy2be: func (ctx *Context) ToString(ref *Value) (str
string, err *Value) err is kinda a bad var name for this
02:15 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Why?
02:16 < crazy2be> and what's a csl?
02:16 < str1ngs> err is almost always os.Error
02:17 < crazy2be> oh yeah it will be changed to type Exception which will
satisfy os.Error
02:17 < str1ngs> csl is a code review thing for go lang
02:17 < str1ngs> crazy2be: its not a biggy I know you dont write this.  just
kinda easier to read
02:18 < crazy2be> so like func (ctx *Context) ToString(ref *Value) (str
string, ???  *Value)
02:18 < crazy2be> what should it be called?
02:18 < crazy2be> just curious
02:18 < crazy2be> I agree that it's confusing as it is now
02:18 < crazy2be> just wondering how you would go about fixing it :P
02:19 < str1ngs> hard to say what is Value.  kinda vauge
02:19 < str1ngs> guess some sorta generic JS object?
02:19 < crazy2be> yeah
02:20 < str1ngs> meh call it value then
02:20 < str1ngs> or errVal ?
02:20 < crazy2be> I'm in the process of changing the Values used for errors
to type Exception
02:20 < crazy2be> among other things
02:20 < crazy2be> because type Error was already used for something else
02:20 < str1ngs> so I guess you are getting this
02:20 < crazy2be> I can't remember waht
02:21 < crazy2be> possibly not :P
02:21 < str1ngs> unexpected fault address 0xffffffffb34e2230
02:21 < str1ngs> throw: fault
02:21 < crazy2be> what branch?
02:21 < str1ngs> master
02:21 < crazy2be> oh that's old
02:21 < crazy2be> switch to ughunsafe
02:21 < crazy2be> it will also crash on gotest
02:21 < crazy2be> but it's more current :P
02:22 < str1ngs> ah if there not current then no point me testing
02:22 < crazy2be> i've been removing unsafe.Pointer() from the code
02:22 < crazy2be> it was all over before
02:22 < str1ngs> str1ngs | how upto date is your git repo for this?
02:23 < str1ngs> ya I avoid unsafe.Pointer like the plague
02:23 < crazy2be> well there's some points it seems to be required
02:23 < crazy2be> but not *everywhere*
02:23 < crazy2be> and the git repo is up to date
02:23 < crazy2be> just not master
02:30 < str1ngs> crazy2be: TestEvaluateScript check if err is nil
02:30 < str1ngs> line 37
02:32 < crazy2be> that's erroring for you?
02:32 < str1ngs> Context or value is nil, cannot return a string
representation!  expected?
02:32 < crazy2be> what's the error?  gist it
02:32 < crazy2be> probably
02:32 < str1ngs> ^
02:32 < str1ngs> oh its test later nvm
02:33 < crazy2be> that's the only error?  Is there a panic/fault?
02:33 < str1ngs> err is test after
02:33 < str1ngs> I get unexpected fault address 0x0
02:33 < str1ngs> throw: fault
02:33 < str1ngs> my guess a deffer?
02:34 < crazy2be> what do you mean?  Like the fault happens in a deffer
statement?
02:39 < crazy2be> gojs is fun though
02:39 < crazy2be> You learn a lot about go's internals
02:40 < crazy2be> since the C code is practically writing all over the place
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02:43 < str1ngs> ya I wonder if the fault happens on a defer
02:45 < crazy2be> someone should writing a go -> js compiler
02:45 < crazy2be> *write
02:46 < crazy2be> what test was the error on again?  TestCheckScript?
02:48 < crazy2be> and what branch are you on?
02:49 < str1ngs> ughunsafe
02:50 < str1ngs> TestEvaluateScript
02:51 < crazy2be> huh, that doesn't fault here
02:51 < crazy2be> what system are you on?
02:51 < str1ngs> tlog(t, "Type of value is", ctx.ValueType(ret)) is the
cause
02:51 < crazy2be> linux/macosx/plan9?  32/64 bit?
02:51 < str1ngs> x86_64 linux
02:51 < crazy2be> ah 64 bit
02:51 < crazy2be> how can you tell the size of a uintptr?
02:52 < str1ngs> would len work?
02:52 < str1ngs> I suck with pointers and C
02:52 < str1ngs> I use go so I dont have to use C :P
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02:53 < crazy2be> hmm i can try that
02:53 < crazy2be> but right now it's hardcoded in at least one place to be 4
02:53 < str1ngs> ah
02:54 < str1ngs> what should it be for x86_64?
02:54 < crazy2be> because there's a funciton in native.go that has to
convert between go []*Value and c *JSValueRef, int
02:54 < crazy2be> probably 8
02:55 < str1ngs> I smell smoke!!!!  :P j/k
02:56 < str1ngs> nope
02:56 < str1ngs> I dont have a i686 install for this
03:01 < crazy2be> oh pull
03:04 < str1ngs> hmm samething
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03:04 < str1ngs> https://gist.github.com/6fda50aced3cee82c445
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03:10 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Run with test.v
03:11 < crazy2be> also some of your pointers seem to be different sizes than
others
03:12 < crazy2be> you've got a 5-byte pointer and a 6-byte pointer and
8-byte pointer
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03:18 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Can you also try gotest -test.run="CValueArray"
-test.v
03:18 < crazy2be> ?
03:18 < crazy2be> (after pulling, of course)
03:18 < crazy2be> I'm curious if my fixes helped any
03:18 < crazy2be> for that particular function
03:19 < crazy2be> bbiab, have to clean the eves
03:20 < cmike007> my private cloud dreams are over.  none of my hardware
supports VT
03:21 < str1ngs> https://gist.github.com/b26e7c0a51dfc5e841a0
03:21 < str1ngs> cmike007: qemu
03:22 < str1ngs> who needs vt
03:22 < str1ngs> :P
03:22 < cmike007> ya, I fought with kvm all weekend.  could have tried xen
but I am done with it
03:22 < str1ngs> crazy2be: ^ check gist for you test result
03:23 < str1ngs> you need vt for kvm
03:23 < str1ngs> what are you trying to do?
03:23 < cmike007> ya, I know that now
03:23 < str1ngs> what are you trying to do though?
03:23 < cmike007> was trying to build a eucalyptus cloud
03:24 < str1ngs> ah
03:24 < str1ngs> just use amazon ec2 or something like that
03:25 < cmike007> i do.  but I had someone that wants me to help them setup
a private cloud for their business, was going to try it out at home to make sure I
was familar with it
03:25 < cmike007> but my hardware at home does'nt have VT
03:25 < str1ngs> just use qemu then
03:25 < str1ngs> what I use for local testing
03:26 < str1ngs> and its pretty easy to script for
03:26 < cmike007> i was looking into Openstack
03:29 < crazy2be> str1ngs: pull and try again :P
03:31 < str1ngs> --- PASS: gojs.TestNewCValueArray (0.00 seconds)
03:31 < str1ngs> PASS
03:31 < str1ngs> \o/
03:31 < crazy2be> huh
03:31 < crazy2be> what's the output, just to check it for consistency
03:31 < str1ngs> I just tested that last test :(
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03:32 < str1ngs> crazy2be: https://gist.github.com/0d229c2c6d3201383540
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03:33 < magn3ts> Anyone have a setup they like for watching go source and
recompile/rerunning them on modification?
03:34 < crazy2be> magn3ts: I was thinking of making one, I built one for
css/js/templates for my wfdr framework
03:34 < crazy2be> but source takes a lot longer to compile than such things
(which are just combined and minified)
03:34 < crazy2be> so I'm not sure how well it would work
03:35 < crazy2be> str1ngs: I'll have to get myself a x64 linux box so I can
keep testing this...  after I get it working on i386 :P
03:36 < crazy2be> also, when you said I should get a CSL, were you saying
you like jsonutil?  :P
03:38 < ajray_> magn3ts: cron job + git
03:39 < magn3ts> ajray_, I meant during development
03:39 < ajray_> do you have to update more than daily?
03:39 < cmike007> so if you put "." in your password, it wont take it over
ssh
03:39 < magn3ts> I meant on something *I* am currently developing
03:39 < crazy2be> cmike007: my password has a . in it
03:39 < crazy2be> it takes it over ssh
03:40 < crazy2be> or what doesn't take it?
03:40 < crazy2be> magn3ts: see
https://github.com/crazy2be/wfdr/tree/master/framework/src/wfdr-cache-monitor
03:40 < cmike007> wasn't working for me crazy2be , took the "." out and it
worked
03:40 < ajray_> magn3ts: are you talking about a continuous integration
server?
03:40 < crazy2be> cmike007: strange
03:41 < magn3ts> not really.  I'm looking for something simple and hackish
03:41 < crazy2be> ajray_: I'm guessing he's just talking about something
that recompiles source when thigns change to get instant feedback
03:41 < magn3ts> something that just listens to inotify for go files changes
and then reruns `make` in the project root
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03:42 < crazy2be> magn3ts: that is run by
https://github.com/crazy2be/wfdr/blob/master/framework/sh/jail-deamon
03:42 < magn3ts> ok thanks
03:42 < crazy2be> not 100% applicable, but could be used as an inspiration
:P
03:44 < crazy2be> it has to deal with multiple layouts, which complicates it
slightly
03:44 < ajray_> i'm in vim so often times i just do a :w and :!make to look
at the latest build
03:45 < crazy2be> but it would be cool to have something like save file->
inotify triggers reload of file/recompile of binary -> refresh a browser if
testing a webapp, otherwise run it in a console
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03:51 < cmike007> nvm about the . in ssh pass
03:51 < cmike007> it was another problem, routing to a wrong computer
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04:00 < crazy2be> str1ngs: what you working on these days?
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06:44 < magn3ts> netchan + javascript = ?
06:46 < clr_> javachan?
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06:55 < aiju> javachan sounds like an anime character name
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11:06 < Tekerson> Is there an Iterable interface (or similar) I can
implement that the .repeated tag in templates is compatible with?
11:07 < Tekerson> I'm trying to iterate over an mgo.Query if there is
another way I'm missing
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11:20 < str1ngs> Tekerson: maybe with container/list
11:21 < str1ngs> not sure about the tag part though
11:23 < Tekerson> I can iterate over it manually with its .Iter() and
.Next() methods, I just don't know if it's possible to get {.repeated ...} to read
it.  I'm hoping it possible by wrapping it somehow, not sure though.
11:25 < icy> net.SplitHostPort() returns 3 values.  I want a reference to
the IP string that it returns without copying the value.  how would I do that?
11:27 < str1ngs> Tekerson: possibly with formatter
11:27 < str1ngs> Tekerson: I have not use template package enough.  but it
would seem it takes an iterface then uses reflects the fields?
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11:36 < icy> most packages seem very inefficient to me, copying values
always around
11:36 < icy> in regards to strings at least
11:39 < str1ngs> I dont see an issue with it personally
11:39 < str1ngs> atleast its conformed
11:41 < vegai> `strings are immutable
11:42 < vegai> hardly makes it "very inefficient"
11:43 < jessta> icy: net.SplitHostPort() returns the same data you pass to
it
11:43 < jessta> not copying
11:43 < icy> so if you assign a string to another string, the content is not
copied?
11:44 < aiju> icy: strings are immutable
11:45 < aiju> icy: a string is a pointer to the data and a length field
11:45 < aiju> holy shit, copying 8/12 bytes ,p
11:45 < icy> immutable does not tell anything about the underlying
implementation when it comes to assignments?
11:45 < aiju> it suggests references
11:50 < icy> hm guess it's not that bad then
11:55 < gnuvince|work> Is it possible to use the flag package to parse
something other than command line arguments?
11:58 < str1ngs> gnuvince|work: like?
11:58 < gnuvince|work> any arbitrary slice of strings
11:58 < gnuvince|work> Kind of how you can pass whatever array you want to
getopt()
11:59 < str1ngs> flag.Args() is just that isnt it?
12:01 < gnuvince|work> But how do I say that I want an arbitrary slice to be
used instead of os.Args?
12:02 < str1ngs> ./foo one two three . would that not be an arbitrary slice?
12:02 < gnuvince|work> Let's say I get "foo -x=30 -y=45" from a network
stream
12:03 < gnuvince|work> Can I split that up and pass it to flag.Parse()?
12:03 < str1ngs> or you going to actually run it with foo?
12:03 < str1ngs> are you*
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12:04 < gnuvince|work> Here's the scenario
12:04 < gnuvince|work> IRC bot
12:05 < gnuvince|work> people send commands to the bot
12:05 < gnuvince|work> I don't want to implement my own flag parsing
12:05 < str1ngs> I get an better idea though.  possible you want flag.Set
12:05 < gnuvince|work> Can I take the message from a user, split it up and
feed it to the flag module to do the job for me?
12:06 < str1ngs> also FlagSet Parse
12:07 < str1ngs> my guess is you want FlagSet Parse
12:07 < mnemoc> *g*
12:07 < str1ngs> gnuvince|work: ya I think if you use FlagSet you can have
your own parser
12:08 < gnuvince|work> cool
12:08 < str1ngs> godoc flag is your buddy :P
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13:51 < robteix> niemeyer, yo!  congrats on your FISLl performance ;)
13:51 < niemeyer> robteix: Hey man!  Thanks :-)
13:51 < aiju> FISLl?
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13:52 < niemeyer> aiju: FISL..  an internal software libre forum in Brazil
13:52 < aiju> ah
13:52 < aiju> Forum Internacional de Software Libros or something ;p
13:55 < niemeyer> aiju: Libros == Books..  Livre/Libre == Free as in speach
13:57 < aiju> niemeyer: that was kinda intended
13:57 < aiju> i know this from latin
13:57 < niemeyer> aiju: Ah, cool :-)
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14:58 < _andre> hello
14:58 < _andre> is there a function to get the integer or byte array
representation of an IP address?
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15:04 < aiju> _andre: why would you want to do that?
15:05 < zozoR> maybe because its awesome
15:05 < aiju> type IP []byte
15:05 < aiju> no need for a function
15:06 < zozoR> type IP [4]byte
15:06 < zozoR> :D
15:07 < _andre> oh
15:07 < _andre> durr
15:07 < _andre> thanks :p
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15:23 < ww> actually it's probably more useful to have it as a uint (or a
big.Uint for ipv6)
15:23 < ww> because that way you can actually do proper bit operations on it
15:23 < aiju> ww: ip[0] | ip[1] << ...
15:23 < ww> so you can sensibly answer questions like "does this network
contain this address"
15:23 < aiju> have fun
15:24 < ww> bitwise and actually...
15:24 < ww> and that would be rather tedious to write out for v6 addresses
:X
15:24 < aiju> for loop?
15:24 < ww> oooogly
15:25 < ww> type V6Address big.UInt
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15:26 < ww> type V6Network { Addr V6Address, Mask V6Address }
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15:27 < ww> func (n V6Network) Contains(addr V6Address) bool { return n.Addr
== (addr & n.Mask) }
15:27 < ww> things like that...
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15:39 < mpl> I just love to get a stack of 20 lines of error messages when
trying to send a non stream to cout in c++.  so informative.
15:41 < aiju> mpl: C++ error messages are the only ones which are even less
informative than ed error messages
15:42 < ajray_> aiju: almost done patching the gofy[kernel] into the latest
go runtime :D
15:43 < aiju> heh
15:43 < aiju> i can add you to the google code project
15:43 < ajray_> if you want
15:43 < zippoxer> can I compile go in gofy?  :)
15:43 < ajray_> otherwise i'll just put it up on github
15:44 < aiju> ajray_: what's your google account?
15:44 < ajray_> aiju: pm'd
15:45 < aiju> ajray_: done
15:46 < aiju> haha
15:46 < aiju> enjoy figuring out how preemptive multitasking works in gofy
15:46 < aiju> i have no clue :)
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15:47 < aiju> you might want to use FAT as a file system
15:48 < aiju> it's might be a bit easier to implement
15:49 < ajray_> easier than doing 9p though a console?
15:49 < aiju> hah
15:49 < aiju> of course you can also just implement a 9p client
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15:49 < aiju> COM1 is hardcoded for debugging output
15:49 < aiju>
http://code.google.com/p/gofy/source/browse/kernel/runtime/eia232.c
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15:50 < aiju> ajray_: there were some mysterious linker bugs
15:50 < aiju> you better watch out and double check for sanity of compiler
and linker output
15:51 < ajray_> fun
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15:51 < aiju> i have an ELF kernel which is used just to look at it with
objdump
15:52 < ajray_> how did you generate it?
15:52 < aiju> see the Makefile
15:52 < aiju> http://code.google.com/p/gofy/source/browse/kernel/Makefile
15:53 < ajray_> were you using bochs
15:53 < aiju> both qemu and bochs
15:56 < aiju> interrupt_s.s
15:56 < aiju> ^-- it may be hard to believe but that nazi reference was not
intended
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16:09 < ajray_> aiju: hg is so clumsy compared to git
16:11 < uriel> hg vs.  git arguments are so lame while there are people out
there still using garbage like svn
16:12 < jlaffaye> and cvs!  :)
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16:12 < ajray_> i was suprised to see gnu's glibc was using git
16:13 < dforsyth> jlaffaye: stop chatting in here and go finish pkgng!
16:15 < jlaffaye> dforsyth: you're right, I should.  but I have other things
to do.
16:15 < dforsyth> boo
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16:18 < ajray_> aiju:
http://code.google.com/p/gofy/source/browse/runtime/gofy/amd64/defs.h ?
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16:20 < aiju> ajray_: there are files like that
16:20 < aiju> usually they used to have contents
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16:52 < uriel> pkgng?
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17:37 < omarshariffdontl> anyone had any success with the godom pacakge?
http://code.google.com/p/godom/
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17:52 < omarshariffdon-1> hello
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18:07 < skelterjohn> hi
18:09 < ajray_> hi
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19:05 < gnuvince|work> What's the proper way to test (as in unit testing)
that a message was sent on a channel?  Specifically, how to test that nothing has
been sent on a channel?
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19:11 < jessta> gnuvince|work: reading from the channel
19:11 < gnuvince|work> But if there's nothing, am I not going to block?
19:12 < dlowe> gnuvince|work: use select
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19:49 < smw_> anyone got ideas for go projects?
19:49 < dlowe> zillions
19:49 < smw_> dlowe, want to tell me one?
19:50 < dlowe> smw_: write a database for medical records
19:50 < aiju> write guidance software for ICBMs
19:50 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-dxhzggvbsfbhqodg] has joined #go-nuts
19:50 < dlowe> write nuclear reaction modeling software
19:51 < smw_> aiju, what type of guidance does the "Independent Community
Bankers of Minnesota" need?
19:51 < aiju> hahah
19:51 < smw_> anything easy?
19:51 < aiju> intercontinental ballistic missile
19:51 < dlowe> smw_: what's the point in that?
19:51 < mpl> http://imgur.com/gallery/pfSA3 <-- for the lulz
19:51 < smw_> dlowe, something I could do?  :-P
19:52 < mpl> hmm, sorry about that.
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19:52 < dlowe> smw_: People do these things, why not you?
19:55 -!- _andre [~andre@fosforo.f2.k8.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:56 < dlowe> Iterate.  Solve a simplified version of the hard problem and
then expand from there.
19:57 < smw_> dlowe, I am looking for something people would use that I
could make that could not be done better in python :-P
19:57 < smw_> dlowe, go certainly beats python in speed...  but I don't need
speed
19:57 < aiju> if you code python you need speed
19:58 < smw_> what?
19:58 < aiju> amphetamine, that is
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19:58 < smw> ah
19:58 < smw> that type of speed
19:58 < smw> I wrote a prime number generator in C, python, java, and go.
19:58 < smw> Python, 9 seconds for first 10,000 primes
19:59 < smw> C .25 seconds
19:59 < smw> Java .52
19:59 < aiju> smw: try common lisp
19:59 < smw> go .35 seconds
19:59 < aiju> it will make Python look REALLY FAST
19:59 < smw> go beat java :-)
19:59 < smw> lol
19:59 < vegai> surprised?  Why?
19:59 < jlaffaye> profile it!
19:59 < smw> nothing, it is just pretty good...
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20:00 < aiju> i had C#/mono beat Go at some point heh
20:00 < aiju> C# coroutines are more efficient for that kind of thing than
goroutines
20:00 < smw> but I can't think of a project that I would not just use python
for :-P
20:01 * ww complains about all the wasted hours of life that duck typing has cost
20:01 < aiju> i use python just about like i use duct tape
20:01 < ww> duck tape?
20:01 < aiju> haha
20:01 < smw> I call it duck tape :-P
20:01 < aiju> python features: duck typing and duck taping
20:02 * lucian complains about all the wasted hours of life that static&weak
typing has cost, unlike ww :)
20:02 < aiju> static typing doesn't waste hours
20:02 < smw> yes it does :-P
20:03 < aiju> try refactoring a project with dynamic typing
20:03 < jessta> weak typing wastes hours
20:03 < lucian> aiju: i have, it's fine
20:03 < lucian> jessta: indeed
20:03 < lucian> but dynamic&strong typing is fine
20:03 < aiju> weak typing is a joke
20:03 < Namegduf> Static typing does not waste time in an obviously
measurable way.
20:03 < lucian> Namegduf: no, but static&weak typing does
20:03 < Namegduf> As programs are not generally produced at the limit of
typing speed.
20:03 < lucian> Namegduf: well, java's static typing does waste time too
20:04 < aiju> java wastes time
20:04 < Namegduf> That's not because of static typing
20:04 < aiju> CPU time, programming time
20:04 < Namegduf> That is because of other properties
20:04 < lucian> aiju: java's plenty fast
20:04 * lucian goes to eat
20:04 < smw> I still want a project!  lol
20:04 < aiju> HAHA
20:04 < aiju> nice one
20:04 * ww curry
20:04 < aiju> what's next?  java is memory efficient?
20:04 < aiju> java is portable?
20:04 < aiju> java is simple?
20:05 < lucian> aiju: fast it is, really.  the jit is the best on earth
20:05 < aiju> the fastest snail on earth
20:05 < lucian> aiju: no, it's really, really fast
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20:05 < lucian> aiju: the stdlib is slow, and wastes everything
20:05 < smw> aiju, it is really fast.  That is why I was impressed when go
beat it.
20:05 < Namegduf> Depends on metrics.
20:05 < Namegduf> Java's startup time is the worst startup time for
anything, ever.
20:05 < aiju> the benchmarks i've seen weren't nice
20:05 < lucian> Namegduf: yes, that is slow.  because of the stdlib, again
20:06 < Namegduf> Um, no
20:06 < ww> #go-nuts is nice backdrop for report writing with
semi-transparent emacs window
20:06 < lucian> Namegduf: uh, yes.  also, class files are a bit odd.
dalvik's are better
20:06 < Namegduf> The stdlib is not solely responsible for the JVM
initialisation time
20:07 < Namegduf> I doubt it is even primarily o.
20:07 < Namegduf> *so
20:07 < aiju> i haven't seen a single fast java program
20:07 < Namegduf> Runtime, Java *can* be fast, but idiomatically isn't.
20:08 < Namegduf> It isn't just the stdlib, the conventions for writing it
idiomatically and the requirements for writing it to run quickly are very at odds.
20:08 < aiju> doesn't the geneva convention prohibit java idioms?
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20:08 < Namegduf> Or at the very least, idiomatic Java does not encourage
performance sufficient to be, well, performant.
20:09 < Namegduf> The stdlib is probably (although I've not reviewed the
source) a good place to look for Java idioms, although I hear bad things about
everything on top of it.
20:10 < smw> I still want go python modules
20:10 < smw> I would kill for that :-)
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20:10 < aiju> python can be fast, just rewrite half of your program in C
20:10 < aiju> wait what
20:11 < smw> aiju, no, you don't have to rewrite in C. Someone else does and
you use their lib :-P
20:11 < smw> If I could rewrite bottlenecks in go, that would be awesome.
20:11 < aiju> ah yes
20:12 < aiju> the forced library fetishism in python
20:12 < lucian> Namegduf: much of the research has show that if you don't
touch anything but arrays and primitives, it's extremely fast
20:12 < lucian> Namegduf: the spec requires a stupid stdlib, sadly
20:12 < lucian> aiju: and that's really not true at all, it's also fast
enough.  especially pypy
20:12 < ww> damn now you have me thinking about fgo
20:12 < ww> (fortran)
20:12 < smw> aiju, forced?  It is what I love about python!
20:12 * lucian is really going to eat
20:12 * ww curry
20:12 < smw> lucian, I want to try my prime number program in pypy.
20:13 < Namegduf> lucian: That's what I mean by "if you write it
unidiomatically"
20:13 < lucian> smw: primes are a very bad benchmark
20:13 < lucian> Namegduf: yes, indeed
20:13 < smw> lucian, why?
20:13 < lucian> Namegduf: dalvik is really much, much better in this
department
20:13 < lucian> smw: silly, tiny, synthetic benchmark
20:13 < lucian> doesn't mean anything at all, like all of shootout.alioth
20:13 < aiju> 22:17 < lucian> Namegduf: much of the research has show
that if you don't touch anything but arrays and primitives, it's extremely fast
20:13 < ww> don't we have a lookup table of all known primes?  why do we
wast cpu cycles recalculating them all the time.  not like they're going to
change...
20:13 < aiju> wow
20:13 < aiju> is there any RELEVANCE IN THAT FACT?
20:14 < smw> lucian, I have yet to figure out what benchmark "means
something"
20:14 < aiju> as in FOR THE REAL WORLD?
20:14 < lucian> smw: your application
20:14 < aiju> 22:18 < lucian> smw: primes are a very bad benchmark
20:14 < aiju> there is no good benchmark
20:14 < aiju> except real software
20:14 < smw> lucian, great, so I get to rewrite my application in 6
languages so I know which is better?
20:14 < smw> aiju, I agree
20:14 < lucian> smw: yes, the bottleneck in your app
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20:14 < lucian> small subset, usually
20:15 < smw> lucian, very true, which is why I want go python modules!
20:15 < smw> lol
20:15 < aiju> yeah, do it like the VMS people
20:15 < aiju> write your code in at least 30 languages
20:15 < smw> no need to have fast code except for the small part that needs
it.
20:15 < smw> VMS?
20:15 * ww is astonished there is no dataset of prime numbers on ckan.net
20:15 < aiju> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openvms
20:16 < smw> also, if I want always fast...  I can just use C
20:16 < aiju> the Windows NT of the 80s
20:16 < smw> problem solved :-P
20:16 < smw> (assuming I can write C well)
20:16 < aiju> although VMS is a hell of alot better implemented than Windows
NT
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20:31 < dlowe> aiju: common lisp makes python look fast?  what kind of lies
are you spreading?
20:32 < aiju> bench mark experience?
20:32 < aiju> i should have added, GNU clisp
20:32 < dlowe> aiju: ok.  yes.  gnu clisp is slow as molassas
20:32 < dlowe> there are very good CL compilers that are comparable to C
20:33 < aiju> like?
20:33 < dlowe> cmucl, sbcl, ccl, lispworks, Allegro CL
20:33 < dlowe> all the ones people actually use
20:33 < aiju> haha
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20:34 < aiju> cmucl is very fast at printing garbage on the screen
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20:34 < ww> allegro...  don't they do more prology stuff?  didn't know they
did lisp too...
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20:35 < lucian> aiju: all those lisps in that list are extremely fast, much
faster than CPython.  some even faster than PyPy
20:36 < lucian> aiju: if you like alioth, most of them beat Go
20:36 < aiju> being faster than cpython is not a big achievement
20:36 < dlowe>
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=sbcl&lang2=go
20:36 < aiju> Parentheses
20:37 < aiju> 100×
20:37 < lucian> aiju: no, but sbcl beast almost everything
20:37 < dlowe> shrug.  haters gonna hate
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20:37 < lucian> dlowe: indeed
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20:37 * ww loves emacs lisp.  and nothing you can say will change that
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20:37 < lucian> as a primarily python dev, i really like lisps, and admire
sbcl
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20:38 < lucian> ww: if it didn't have dynamic scoping, i'd love it too
20:38 < dlowe> as a primary CL dev, I really like python and admire Go
20:38 < aiju> i think lisps have interesting ideas but common lisp is full
of crap, to be honest
20:38 < lucian> aiju: perhaps.  nowhere as much crap as in C++, but some
20:38 < lucian> racket/scheme and clojure are very nice, though
20:38 < aiju> where is the roman number formatter in c++?
20:39 < dlowe> aiju: it's not as though the roman number formatter is
getting in your way
20:39 < aiju> dlowe: common bloat excuse
20:39 < aiju> "all this bloat is not getting in your way"
20:39 < dlowe> which century are you living in with the expensive ram?
20:39 < lucian> aiju: not really, clisp has other issues
20:40 < aiju> common lisp has many issues
20:40 < lucian> aiju: common lisp runtimes are *tiny*
20:40 < dlowe> lucian: well, I wouldn't go that far...
20:40 < lucian> if has sub-par macros, and some cruft in the core libs.
that's about it
20:40 < aiju> common lisp has three dozen name spaces
20:40 < lucian> dlowe: sure they are!  compare to jvm, or even python/go
20:41 < dlowe> How big is the go runtime?
20:41 < aiju> too big
20:41 < lucian> dlowe: over 1mb
20:41 < aiju> bs
20:41 < lucian> core clisp is smaller than that
20:42 < aiju> i remember it to be under 1mb by now
20:42 < lucian> aiju: on disk
20:42 < dlowe> lucian: GNU clisp?
20:42 < lucian> dlowe: ok, maybe not that
20:42 < dlowe> lucian: cause, you know.  There's a COMPILE function.
20:43 < lucian> dlowe: right, maybe not that one
20:43 < dlowe> The sbcl runtime is >50MB
20:43 < lucian> yeah, but it includes loads of stuff
20:43 < lucian> anyway, it's not jvm
20:43 < lucian> "small enough", just like go or python
20:43 < serialhex> how do i make a slice of pointers?  []*thingys ???
20:43 < aiju> serialhex: yeah
20:43 < serialhex> ok, thanks aiju!!
20:44 < jessta> lucian: hello world in Go is 200KB
20:44 < lucian> jessta: yeah, for my standards that's "small enough"
20:45 < aiju> jessta: has it improved massively or what are you smoking?
20:45 < lucian> aiju: probably gccgo
20:45 < lucian> jessta: with Gc (silly name that, i'd prefer goc), it's
statically linked, so around 1mb
20:45 < aiju> -rwxr-xr-x 1 aiju users 876K 2011-07-04 22:51 8.out
20:45 < aiju> almost
20:46 < ww> can we strip them yet?
20:46 < jessta> including fmt?
20:46 < aiju> ww: i hope not
20:46 < jessta> fmt is big
20:46 < ww> someone was talking about twiddling the elf to make them
strippable
20:46 < lucian> unless you're embedding in tiny things, it's irrelevant
20:46 < aiju> not quite, it sums up
20:46 < aiju> would be nice if it were smaller
20:47 < jessta> I get 980KB with a helloworld using fmt, and 200KB just
using print()
20:48 < aiju> jessta: print() exists only in your mind
20:48 < ww> println perhaps?
20:49 < aiju> they are both not meant to be used
20:49 < aiju> off to sleep
20:49 < dlowe> damn the bloat!
20:49 * ww writes hello world with log.Print anyways :X
20:49 < jessta> aiju: ok, so using stdout.write() I get 312KB
20:49 < ww> sleep is for the weak
20:50 * ww club mate now
20:51 < jessta> fmt is huge, it pulls in reflect, unicode, utf8, maths,
strings, bytes, and math
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20:53 * ww remembers that well...  had hello world blow up on some versions of ARM
with no floating point hardware because of initialisation gunk in math
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20:55 * ww wishes LaTeX were more like Go
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21:47 < fotang> how to get the length of a string _unicode code points_?
len("Tǎnó") gives 6; I want 4 (number of letters).
21:47 < fotang> s/string/string in
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21:52 < nekoh> try len([]int("Tǎnó"))
21:54 < fotang> nekoh: that works!
21:55 < fotang> is that a trick?  or how it should be done?
21:55 < fotang> thx a lot tho
21:57 < nekoh> it converts the string to utf8 codepoints
21:58 < nekoh> not sure if its the correct way to do that though
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21:59 < mpl> if it's simple it's probably the right way ;)
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22:00 < KirkMcDonald> nekoh: I think you mean "Unicode code points."
22:00 < nekoh> yea
22:00 < nekoh> i mean runes ;)
22:01 < KirkMcDonald> There is also utf8.RuneCountInString()
22:01 < fotang> what's a rune, tho?  my google efforts say some ancient,
angular-letter alphabeth
22:01 < KirkMcDonald> fotang: It means "code point," more or less.
22:02 * fotang is gettin too old for this programmin stuff.  too many strange
things already
22:03 < mpl> fotang: runes are the kind of alphabet nordic people for
example, used.  but it's also how Pike et al.  called the utf-8 chars.
22:03 < KirkMcDonald> mpl: "The UTF-8 chars"?
22:03 < fotang> Pike..now i see the Go-angle to runes..
22:04 < mpl> KirkMcDonald: yeah, the quotes seem about right :)
22:04 < rl> Rune makes sense in a way though; the term "character" is
overloaded
22:04 < mpl> and rather Thompson et al.  actually
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22:05 < fotang> i first saw 'runes' when reading the go unicode stuff.
googled and ended up knowing more about ancient writing than about Go and unicode
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22:07 < mpl> fotang: see http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/utf.html
22:07 < mpl> "On the semantic level, ANSI C allows, but does not tie down,
the notion of a wide character and admits string and character constants of this
type.  We chose the wide character type to be unsigned short.  In the libraries,
the word Rune is defined by a typedef to be equivalent to unsigned short and is
used to signify a Unicode character."
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22:09 < lucian> so it's a code point?
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22:11 < fotang> i see
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22:14 < lucian> "rune" is a better term than "code point" though.  "Haskell
has lists of runes instead of strings." sounds much better
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22:24 < fotang> c:="ǎ"; fmt.Printf("%s-%c", c,c[0]); //output: "ǎ-Ç".
something isnt very right ?
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22:26 < fotang> i thought c[0] would be 'ǎ', not 'Ç'
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22:32 < str1ngs> fotang: try with %v
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22:36 < fotang> str1ngs: %v c[0] outputs 199!
22:36 < str1ngs> fotang: %s does reflection and give the string
representation
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22:37 < str1ngs> fotang: godoc fmt | less for more details
22:38 < fotang> 199 is 0x01ce which is Ç
22:39 < fotang> no no sorry 0xce is not Ç
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22:49 < fotang> c:="ǎ"; fmt.Printf("%c", ([]int(c))[0]) //outputs 'ǎ' ok but
that cant be the way!
22:49 < KirkMcDonald> fotang: Strings contain UTF-8 code units.
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22:50 < KirkMcDonald> fotang: The utf8 package contains some things:
http://golang.org/pkg/utf8/
22:50 < fotang> oh that one..
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23:02 < fotang> KirkMcDonald: utf8 is like greek for an absolute beginner
like me.  so:
23:03 < fotang> suppose I have S:=utf8.NewString("Tǎnó").  how do i call on
it RunCount() as in "func (s *String) RuneCount() int"?
23:03 < crazy2be> lol
23:03 < fotang> hahaha
23:03 < crazy2be> S.RuneCount()
23:03 < fotang> my daily 2 hrs of Go are over but i gotta get this at least
23:04 < crazy2be> 2 hours a day?
23:04 < crazy2be> that's quite a bit
23:04 < fotang> oh it's like object-oriented something
23:04 < crazy2be> not object-oriented really
23:04 < crazy2be> just a helper method
23:04 < fotang> whole weekend, 2 hrs after work.  it's 00:08
23:05 < crazy2be> cleaner than utf8.string_rune_count(s)
23:05 < crazy2be> (although that's basically what it does)
23:05 < fotang> ok thanks//
23:06 < fotang> i'll capture the beast before the month is over
23:06 < fotang> bye
23:06 < crazy2be> bye
23:06 < crazy2be> have fun
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23:07 < crazy2be> hey cmike007
23:13 < KirkMcDonald> Hmm, he left.
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23:19 < crazy2be> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/cpre.html
23:20 < crazy2be> kinda cool (ab)use of the C preprocessor
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23:25 < str1ngs> crazy2be: to answer your question from yesterday.  I'm
mainly working on https://github.com/xtraeme/vanilla right now
23:26 < crazy2be> str1ngs: yet another linux distro?
23:26 < crazy2be> :P
23:27 < crazy2be> I suppose I'm writing yet another web framework and yet
another ini library...
23:27 < crazy2be> :P
23:27 < str1ngs> atleast its not a derivative :P
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23:28 < crazy2be> true, but it's got a fairly large base install for a
"bare-bones" distro
23:28 < crazy2be> I want something that's 2MB and makes my eggs in the
morning!
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23:29 < crazy2be> what's the advantage over say dsl?
23:29 < str1ngs> 120m with kernel is slim
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23:31 < str1ngs> dsl is uclibc based iirc
23:31 < str1ngs> not very useful in the grand scheme of things
23:31 < str1ngs> we are talking desktop linux here
23:32 < crazy2be> oh desktop linux
23:32 < crazy2be> 150mb isn't too bad then
23:33 < str1ngs> diskspace is not so much an issued.  more depends if
anything else
23:34 < str1ngs> also unpriveledge chroot build system
23:34 < str1ngs> inspired by bsd
23:35 < crazy2be> how does that work?
23:35 < crazy2be> I was reading about that
23:35 < crazy2be> because normal chroots require root privs
23:35 < crazy2be> does it use setuid?
23:36 < str1ngs> no libcap
23:37 < str1ngs> some other instresting things .like sha256 for every
package files
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23:39 < crazy2be> how ugly does syntax like <<this>> look to
you, str1ngs?  I'm thinking of writing an html preoprocessor library
23:39 < crazy2be> and i'm trying to decide on syntax
23:40 < str1ngs> just use the template package no?
23:40 < str1ngs> or I'm I missing what you are doing here
23:40 < crazy2be> nodes like <this> would be left alone, but nodes
like <<this>> would correspond to commands
23:40 < crazy2be> the idea is to do things at "compile time" rather than
runtime
23:41 < str1ngs> just compile the templates into html :P
23:41 < crazy2be> so you have a source file with this extra markup, and then
some program generates the html/template files as part of your build process or
automatically using inotify
23:42 < str1ngs> if you need to ouput html like this template package is the
way to go
23:42 < crazy2be> nodes like <<this>> literally run commands,
with the "attributes" translated into command-line arguments
23:42 < crazy2be> so <<this foo="bar" bar="foo">> would run the
command this -foo="bar" -bar="foo"
23:43 < str1ngs> templates,, use them :P
23:43 < crazy2be> passing the inside of that tag on STDIN, using the output
as the generated html
23:43 < crazy2be> that would allow, for example, headers like this:
23:44 < crazy2be> <<include src="header">> or
<<header>>
23:44 < crazy2be> depending on how you wanted to do it
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23:45 < crazy2be> and would allow markdown embedded in html source files,
because the contents of the tags can be arbitrarilly processed
23:45 < crazy2be> markdown is just one example of course
23:45 < crazy2be> really anything could be embedded
23:46 < crazy2be> but does <<tagName
tagAttribute="tagAttributeValue">> look ugly to you?
23:46 < crazy2be> I could do like <@tagName tagAttribute="...">
23:46 < crazy2be> or some such
23:47 < crazy2be> end tags could be like </@tagName>
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23:58 < sdegutis> hello
23:59 < sdegutis> is it possible at runtime to get a reflect.Type from a
string?
--- Log closed Tue Jul 05 00:00:12 2011