--- Log opened Tue Jan 04 00:00:01 2011 00:01 -!- iamcarbon [~Adium@rrcs-184-74-175-18.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:01 -!- iamcarbon [~Adium@rrcs-184-74-175-18.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:01 -!- iamcarbon [~Adium@rrcs-184-74-175-18.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k2VBJ by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/regexp/ -- regexp: fix performance bug, make anchored searches fail fast. 00:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k2VBZ by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/regexp/ -- regexp: fix prefix bug. 00:05 -!- iamcarbon [~Adium@rrcs-184-74-175-18.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 00:09 -!- photron_ [~photron@port-92-201-121-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:13 -!- _DerHorst_ [~Horst@e176103079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 00:14 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:14 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:15 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.99.191] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 00:16 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176109157.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17 -!- ios_ [~ios@180.191.42.35] has joined #go-nuts 00:18 -!- vdrab [~vdrab@pd3e9b4.kyotnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 00:30 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:32 -!- vdrab [~vdrab@pd3e9b4.kyotnt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: vdrab] 00:33 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-93-24.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:45 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:46 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@93-80-249-133.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:48 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@113.sub-75-208-212.myvzw.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:49 -!- rphillips [~rphillips@unaffiliated/rphillips] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:53 -!- rphillips [~rphillips@unaffiliated/rphillips] has joined #go-nuts 00:57 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:57 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@cpc5-aztw24-2-0-cust39.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:58 -!- Maxdamantus [~Maxdamant@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58 -!- Eko [~eko@adsl-76-251-235-206.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59 -!- Eko [~eko@adsl-76-251-235-206.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:59 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:59 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-160-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:01 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:01 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-148-177-211.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Scorchin] 01:01 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:03 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 01:08 -!- Maxdamantus [~Maxdamant@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:17 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@222.50.69.96] has joined #go-nuts 01:21 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@222.50.69.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.128.234] has joined #go-nuts 01:24 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-160-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:29 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:29 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:35 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:44 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 01:52 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:53 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:00 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:02 -!- SoniaKeys [Alliebloom@c-24-91-112-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:08 -!- daxt [~daxt@112.135.87.106] has joined #go-nuts 02:09 < daxt> How can i make some $$ with Go which helps me to make my living while helping to develop it ? 02:12 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:15 < exch> Not sure how the two go hand in hand, but they are not mutually exclusive. Just make something you can sell and submit patches for anything you feel is wrong or broken. 02:16 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@113.sub-75-208-212.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16 < exch> patches for Go that is 02:16 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.30.51.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:20 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k3mfw by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/misc/dashboard/builder/ -- gobuilder: prefix the tarball with 'go.', tweak release regexp 02:24 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 02:27 -!- daxt_ [~daxt@112.135.88.222] has joined #go-nuts 02:29 -!- daxt [~daxt@112.135.87.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:32 < adu> hi 02:33 < adu> http://straymindcough.blogspot.com/2011/01/golang-proposals.html 02:34 -!- devrim [~Adium@160.79.7.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@215.sub-75-208-235.myvzw.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:37 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 02:37 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:37 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #go-nuts 02:38 < Namegduf> Go is Turing Complete 02:38 < Namegduf> It can express anything C++ can express 02:38 < Namegduf> I'm tired of hearing that inane argument 02:39 < Namegduf> It just can't express it in the same way. 02:40 < adu> of course its Turing complete 02:40 < adu> who said it wasn't? 02:40 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.30.51.90] has joined #go-nuts 02:40 < Namegduf> The blog post claims it can't express everything C++ can. 02:40 < Namegduf> It can certainly express every algorithm C++ can. 02:41 < adu> OK, but what about templates? 02:41 < Namegduf> What about them? 02:41 < Namegduf> You can express anything done in templates just by writing out the versions used. 02:41 < adu> How would you express std::deque<T> in Go? 02:42 < Namegduf> std::deque<T> is not an algorithm, it's an abstract thing. 02:42 < adu> right, but that's like saying 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 when what you really want to express is "number" 02:42 < nsf> proposals.. again :( 02:43 < Namegduf> You may as well ask how Go lets you express multiple inheritance. 02:43 < adu> I'm not concerned with multiple inheritance 02:43 < adu> besides Go does allow multiple inheritance of struct fields, which makes me happy 02:44 < Namegduf> I suppose Go cannot express every arbitrary conceptual thing in any other language, but no other language can, and it's hardly a disadvantage. 02:44 < adu> Lisp can 02:44 < Namegduf> It can express any algorithm, and that is all that is required. 02:44 < adu> by whom? 02:44 < adu> you may not require it, but someone else may 02:44 < Namegduf> By anyone solving a problem. 02:45 < adu> that's a rash assumption 02:45 < Namegduf> By anyone writing any kind of program at all, actually. 02:45 < Namegduf> No, it's pretty basic CS 02:45 < adu> there are different schools of thought on that 02:45 < Namegduf> No, there aren't. 02:46 < Namegduf> Anything that can be done in one Turing complete language can be done in another. 02:47 < Namegduf> You need to find an argument for things other than "it can't express arbitrary conceptual things other languages can" because unless they impact Turing completeness they by definition don't stop you solving any actual problem 02:47 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.30.51.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47 < Namegduf> And solving actual problems is, I think, the point 02:48 < adu> you keep talking about requirements for Turing completeness 02:49 < adu> I'm talking about requirements from managers and clients and stuff 02:49 < Namegduf> If those requirements are for a thing to be computed then either something Turing complete can do it or it can't. 02:50 < Namegduf> Generics has no impact on it being possible to do or not. 02:50 < adu> true 02:50 < vsmatck> true but irrelevant. 02:51 < |Craig|> you can implement a C++ interpreter in Go 02:51 < adu> true 02:51 < Namegduf> Highly relevant to my point. 02:51 < adu> Namegduf: what is your point? 02:51 < vsmatck> What is your point? 02:52 < Namegduf> That arguing that things cannot be expressed due to lack of generics is either wrong (if said things are stuff to compute) or irrelevant (if said things are conceptual, expressed not to the machine but to other programmers reading the code) 02:53 < Namegduf> And thus arguments that generics are beneficial need to be based on better grounds 02:53 < Namegduf> Benefits to conciseness, safety, etc 02:53 < vsmatck> I think you misinterpret his blog post. He's talking about expressiveness, not turing completeness. 02:53 < adu> I think brevity is a good argument 02:53 < vsmatck> His introduction is not super well written tho. 02:53 < adu> vsmatck: I can change it 02:54 < Namegduf> So far as I can tell, the intro is the only place putting arguments down that generics are useful and required 02:54 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:54 < vsmatck> adu: Oh this is your blog? 02:54 < adu> yes 02:54 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:54 < Namegduf> And no effort is made to compare the costs fo the generic implementations with the benefits of generics 02:54 * adu is Andrew 02:54 < vsmatck> Ah, in that case lemme try to be more specific on my criticism. 02:54 < adu> vsmatck: I would appreciate it :) 02:54 < Namegduf> Because this "expressiveness" is treated as a kind of ultimate good 02:55 < adu> maybe I assume "expressive" and "brief" are the same thing 02:55 < vsmatck> If it wasn't we'd all write in machine code. (is this reduction to absurd?) 02:55 < Namegduf> Yes, it is. 02:55 < Namegduf> If it was, we'd all write in the most expressive language available with the most constructs to represent the most conceptual things. 02:55 < |Craig|> some generics designs allow complex data structures to be implemented with out major redundancy or performance hits for multiple different types. Type safety and syntax aside, that about it. 02:55 < Namegduf> It'd be awful. 02:56 < |Craig|> as far as brief code goes, we can manually edit compressed source files. Way more concise! 02:57 < |Craig|> some generics are a kind of compression really (not that its bad) 02:57 < adu> Namegduf: lol why would that be awful? 02:58 < adu> Namegduf: or are you talking about OMG? 02:58 < Namegduf> You seriously think a language with hundreds of constructs to represent any conceivable conceptual thing would be the best language possible? 02:59 < vsmatck> adu: I guess mainly the part of the intro I don't like is the last sentence of the first paragraph. 02:59 < adu> hundreds, no 03:01 < adu> would removing "may or may not" strengthen my argument? 03:02 < Namegduf> It's kind of a useless sentence. 03:02 < vsmatck> Your meaning only becomes clear to me when I read below. 03:02 < Namegduf> If you're talking about expressing algorithms, as I've said, you're wrong. 03:02 < Namegduf> if you're talking about expressing arbitrary concepts, you should compare against writing text, not a programming language. 03:02 < Namegduf> And it's kind of a weak point. 03:02 < Namegduf> "Expressing arbitrary concepts" isn't really a function of a programming language. 03:03 < vsmatck> Something like, "However, when comparing C++ to Go there are certain generic algorithms which can only be expressed in C++". I'm not a super good writer tho. 03:03 < Namegduf> Eh. 03:03 < Namegduf> Certain algorithms which can only be expressed generically, maybe. 03:03 < vsmatck> yeah that's better. 03:04 < Namegduf> The algorithm is the same in the language with generics as the language without, it just has to be written down non-generically 03:04 < vsmatck> Err. Maybe redundant to what was said. I dunno. 03:06 < vsmatck> http://blackbeltreview.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/singleresponsibilityprinciple2_71060858.jpg 03:07 < vsmatck> I think the reason generics isn't in go yet is because they couldn't figure out how to make it fit right. Can't just throw stuff together of you get C++. lol 03:08 < vsmatck> Seems like certain features are more "bolt-on" than others. Concurrency seems like an example of something with is definitely not bolt-on. 03:08 < adu> OK, I changed that sentance 03:10 < vsmatck> I like that better. Like Namegduf said the old sentence was a bit unnecessary. 03:10 < adu> :) 03:18 -!- newblue__ [~newblue@116.26.58.39] has joined #go-nuts 03:20 -!- res99 [~anonymous@201.237.130.70] has joined #go-nuts 03:21 < SoniaKeys> hmm. combining characters aren't letters, and so can't be used in identifiers. too bad. 03:21 -!- res99 [~anonymous@201.237.130.70] has quit [Client Quit] 03:21 -!- go^lang [~newblue@113.84.228.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:27 -!- crazy2be [~justin@d75-152-162-237.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:28 -!- _DerHorst_ [~Horst@e176103079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 03:30 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:30 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 03:35 -!- SoniaKeys [Alliebloom@c-24-91-112-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k3AN5 by [Gustavo Niemeyer] in go/src/cmd/goinstall/ -- goinstall: fix -u for bzr 03:42 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:42 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 03:46 -!- ios_ [~ios@180.191.42.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46 -!- SoniaKeys [Alliebloom@c-24-91-112-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:57 -!- SoniaKeys [Alliebloom@c-24-91-112-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.155.180] has joined #go-nuts 04:00 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:00 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:02 -!- Mekapaedia [~Mekapaedi@S0106001ee5376df1.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:11 -!- ios_ [~ios@180.191.134.170] has joined #go-nuts 04:12 -!- ios_ [~ios@180.191.134.170] has left #go-nuts [] 04:19 -!- Davidian2024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:19 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-57.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 04:20 -!- noktoborus_ [~noxless@109.126.16.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:22 -!- Venom_roof [~pjacobs@75.92.43.21] has quit [Quit: Venom_roof] 04:24 -!- ryanu [~ryan_@c-98-200-189-134.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:26 < adu> nsf: you still there? 04:26 < nsf> :) 04:27 < adu> You said "again" can you point me to other proposals? 04:27 < nsf> there were some on the ML 04:28 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 04:28 < adu> what's a good keyword? "extension"? 04:28 < nsf> generics 04:29 < nsf> there are a lot of ideas and drafts 04:29 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:29 < nsf> and in that blog post it's also an idea 04:29 < adu> wow there are!!! 04:29 < nsf> it's not a proposal 04:30 < nsf> it covers syntax, but there are much less words about semantics 04:30 < nsf> and implementation 04:31 < nsf> no one should propose anything unless they are ready to implement it by themselves 04:31 < nsf> I also assume that it means they know how to implement a feature they want 04:32 < nsf> without such knowledge, "proposals" or "ideas" cost is zero 04:32 < adu> I'm ready to implement it 04:32 < adu> I've already written my own parser 04:32 < nsf> do it :) 04:32 < adu> well it will take awhile 04:32 < adu> did you see my parser? 04:32 < nsf> no 04:33 < adu> hackage.haskell.org/package/language-go 04:33 < nsf> ah.. that one, yes I saw it 04:33 < nsf> I know no haskell, so.. it won't tell me anything anyway :) 04:33 < adu> its very alpha 04:33 -!- noktoborus [~noxless@109.126.50.200] has joined #go-nuts 04:34 < adu> also, its quite readable even without Haskell knowledge 04:37 < nsf> that's a good thing i guess 04:39 < nsf> as for me.. I don't think Go needs generics 04:40 < nsf> because this "small" feature immediately turns Go into a completely different language 04:41 < nsf> I like Go, but whether or no I like this abstract language, I don't know 04:43 -!- noktoborus_ [~noxless@109.126.52.99] has joined #go-nuts 04:43 < nsf> ehm.. anyways 04:43 < nsf> no generics is a valid solution to a generics problem for me :) 04:44 -!- noktoborus [~noxless@109.126.50.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:46 -!- noktoborus [~noxless@109.126.39.154] has joined #go-nuts 04:47 -!- noktoborus_ [~noxless@109.126.52.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:49 -!- sjbrown [~sjbrown@c-98-210-195-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:53 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-57.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53 < crazy2be> go practically *has* generics with interfaces and such, doesn't it? 04:53 < nsf> some form of them in runtime, yes 04:54 < crazy2be> like rather than saying template<T> like you would in C++, you just define an interface and accept that as an argument 04:54 < crazy2be> however, it is slower 04:54 < adu> crazy2be: no, it has polymorphism, not generics 04:54 < crazy2be> adu: What is the exact difference there? 04:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k3NMS by [Nigel Tao] in go/doc/ -- doc: update Effective Go for template API change. 04:55 < adu> crazy2be: polymorphism is vague, generics generally implies _parametric_ polymorphism 04:55 < nsf> go interfaces are pretty much the same thing as C++'s concepts (that were proposed for C++0x), but in runtime, instead of compile time 04:56 < nsf> what does parametric mean? there are parameters 04:56 < nsf> interface is a parameter 04:56 < nsf> the function behaviour is guided by interface implementation 04:56 < adu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_polymorphism 04:57 < nsf> "Using parametric polymorphism, a function or a data type can be written generically so that it can handle values identically without depending on their type.[2] Such functions and data types are called generic functions and generic datatypes respectively and form the basis of generic programming." 04:57 < nsf> so.. what's wrong with that 04:58 < adu> that's good 04:58 < nsf> that what interfaces are about 04:58 < nsf> Print handles values of different types 04:58 < nsf> fmt.Print I mean 04:58 < nsf> it can print everything, literally 04:58 < crazy2be> like the only use i can see for generics is in writing functions that deal with floats, ints, and doubles for example 04:59 < crazy2be> like as in any one of those 04:59 < crazy2be> since the overhead involved in defining an interface would be unacceptable 04:59 < nsf> for me the only excuse for generics is an implementation that generates optimal code 04:59 < Namegduf> The reason is mostly so the type provided in one instance can automatically carry over to others. 04:59 < nsf> e.g. std::sort 04:59 < adu> like "template specialization"? 04:59 < Namegduf> Right 05:00 < Namegduf> Also performance, yah. 05:00 < Namegduf> *yeah 05:00 < adu> like vector<object> = slow, vector<bool> = int 05:01 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-57.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 05:01 < crazy2be> can't the compiler do a certain amount of optimization for that at compile time tho? 05:01 < vsmatck> In C++ vector<bool> is partial specialized to use bits. It requires a proxy object and breaks certain things. One example is std::swap. 05:01 < nsf> vector<bool> is a very bad idea 05:02 < vsmatck> There was a proposal to change the specification. It was a msitake. 05:02 < adu> nsf: agreed 05:02 < vsmatck> And the C++ people are smart. So generic stuff can be complicated. *shrug* 05:02 < crazy2be> lol 05:02 < nsf> they are smart, but certainly they are not wise 05:02 < Namegduf> The problem with every generics idea I've seen so far is that they don't do a detailed evaluation of the costs to the language and the benefits from the change 05:03 < adu> generic stuff _is_ complicated 05:03 < vsmatck> Power is nothing without control. :) 05:03 < Namegduf> That is, they stay at ideas, they don't say why those ideas are good. 05:03 < vsmatck> Some generic stuff is complicated. Not all of it. 05:03 < Namegduf> Or why they're better than their costs. 05:03 < crazy2be> well i'm not convinced of the need for generics still 05:03 < vsmatck> I personally find template metaprogramming incomprehensible. 05:03 < nsf> Namegduf: agreed 05:03 < nsf> I haven't seen a proposal that mentions linking problems 05:04 < Namegduf> Few seem to discuss implementation at all. 05:04 < vsmatck> It'd be nice to have the the bytes package work on slices of all types. Need generics for that. 05:04 < adu> vsmatck: well the Map[K]T => _Map_K_T_ kind of generics is not that complicated 05:05 < Namegduf> I think simple generics are best done via a preprocessor. 05:05 < crazy2be> vsmatck: yeah, that's the other thing it could be useful for 05:05 < adu> Namegduf: that's what the ML seems to agree upon 05:05 < Namegduf> I actually kind of like having one, perfectly simple, perfectly standard Go implementation and generating the other varients from that. 05:05 < crazy2be> so that the strings and bytes packages wouldn't have to be seperate 05:05 < vsmatck> preprocessory yuck. 05:05 < nsf> I like the idea of a type-safe preprocessor 05:06 < Namegduf> I agree it's yuck, but I think it's less yuck than yuckifying the language. 05:06 < nsf> but haven't seen one 05:06 < adu> i wonder if it would be possible to implement "interface" via a preprocessor 05:07 < Namegduf> In short, lack of generics sucks but I've not seen a properly done pros vs cons argument for a specific generics implementation that went into the required level of detail, didn't make assumptions that needed backing. 05:08 < adu> I would love to do that 05:08 < vsmatck> I think the way they're likely to implement it is by boxing. Not compile time specialization like C++. iant was talking about it a while ago in here. 05:08 < Namegduf> Other stuff in the blog post... wtf has POSIX to do with Go? 05:08 < crazy2be> night 05:08 < Namegduf> I assume you're talking about the POSIX C API 05:09 < Namegduf> The one which is wrapped in every package that speaks to it into idiomatic nice Go. 05:09 < adu> yes 05:09 -!- crazy2be [~justin@d75-152-162-237.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09 < adu> right 05:09 < Namegduf> So why would internal, non-idiomatic structures ever need to be public? 05:10 < Namegduf> And why is that worth throwing away the whole point of case-based public/private, which is the ability to see it at a glance without checking the declaration? 05:11 < adu> Go is a systems programming language, intended for writing systems, it is only a matter of time before someone tries to write an OS in Go 05:12 < adu> OS have lots of specialized interfaces, but most useful OSs have a POSIX interface (even Windows) 05:12 < Namegduf> I think you might be confusing the kernel, and the libc 05:12 < adu> no, I'm talking exclusively about libc 05:13 < adu> POSIX is not the only example 05:13 < Namegduf> So your proposal is to break public/private across the entire language for the convenience of people writing a libc in Go 05:13 < adu> OpenGL is another example of an ABI that requires lowercase symbols 05:13 < Namegduf> An API. 05:13 < Namegduf> I think. 05:13 < Namegduf> Anyways, that doesn't explain why these symbols should cross packages. 05:14 < adu> yes, API, but the API is for C, the stuff in shared libraries could have been written in any language, like Pascal or GWBASIC for example 05:14 < nsf> adu: it's not true as far as I remember 05:14 < nsf> ah, ABI 05:15 < adu> yes 05:15 < nsf> well, maybe yes 05:15 < nsf> but ABI is not a part of the standard 05:15 < adu> right 05:15 < nsf> afair 05:15 < Namegduf> I'm not sure how this relates to exposing these symbols across Go packages 05:16 < adu> well, the way I see it is a matter of name mangling 05:16 < adu> lowercase symbols (in my head) are prefixed with __dont_look_here__ 05:17 < Namegduf> Weird. 05:17 < Namegduf> I see them as perfectly usable everywhere I can see them- merely internal to what I'm working with. 05:17 < adu> and when a compiler tries searching for symbols, it only searches for non-prefixed symbols in other packages, and both prefixed and non-prefixed symbols in the current package 05:17 < Namegduf> I suppose a __dont_look__here__ thing would be how Python would do it. 05:18 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.128.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18 < Namegduf> Or you'd do it in Python. 05:18 -!- shvntr_ [~shvntr@116.26.128.234] has joined #go-nuts 05:18 -!- Mekapaedia [~Mekapaedi@S0106001ee5376df1.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19 < adu> the way I would implement forced public/private is to modify the default prefixing/mangling of symbol names 05:19 < adu> so Print would be Print, and print would be __dont_look_here__print 05:20 -!- rphillips [~rphillips@unaffiliated/rphillips] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:20 < adu> attrib(public) print would be print, and attrib(private) Print would be __dont_look_here__Print 05:20 < nsf> :\ 05:22 -!- rphillips [~rphillips@unaffiliated/rphillips] has joined #go-nuts 05:26 < adu> Namegduf: "convenience of people writing a libc in Go" is something I don't quite get 05:27 < adu> to me it seems innevitable 05:28 < adu> there is perhaps a slippery slope 05:28 < adu> people ask for libraries, they get go-specific .a libraries 05:29 < adu> people ask for shared libraries, perhaps go will work with shared libs in a few years 05:29 < nsf> I don't think so 05:29 < nsf> gccgo works already though 05:29 < adu> not for me 05:30 < adu> anyways, after shared libraries, people will probably want something other than uppercase symbols, and that's the point of attrib(public) 05:30 < Namegduf> Why? 05:30 < adu> then come milk and cookies 05:31 < nsf> shared Go libraries won't work outside of Go 05:31 < adu> right 05:31 < nsf> because specific runtime is required 05:31 < Namegduf> And even if they did, capital letter names seems minor. 05:32 < Namegduf> And even if they weren't, a specific fix for shared libraries would seem better than altering the entire language 05:32 < adu> it would certainly give class to POSIX... StrDup() 05:32 < Namegduf> My point with the libc thing was that making sweeping changes to a language that increase complexity for everyone to gain a slight improvement in usability for a tiny percentage of code written in it... 05:33 < adu> understandable 05:33 < adu> I'm well aware how weak slippery slope arguments are 05:34 < Namegduf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy 05:34 < adu> i know, that's why I used the term 05:35 -!- rphillips [~rphillips@unaffiliated/rphillips] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36 -!- rphillips [~rphillips@unaffiliated/rphillips] has joined #go-nuts 05:39 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-57.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49 -!- ryanu [~ryan_@c-98-200-189-134.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:51 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-57.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 05:53 < adu> Namegduf: so do you have any comments on "pragma"? 05:55 < cbeck> Mine would mostly 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Connection reset by peer] 14:59 -!- sauerbraten_ [~sauerbrat@p508CFA7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03 < cde> why are Go strings immutable? 15:04 < taruti> because there is []byte 15:04 < taruti> and bytes.Buffer 15:04 <+iant> Logically speaking, they are constants just like integer constants. It does not make sense to speak of changing the value of 3. 15:04 -!- arun [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:05 -!- leczb [~leczb@nat/google/x-olgumaddhinjraes] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:05 < cde> but that's not as efficient as stl strings 15:05 <+iant> C/C++ strings are also immutable, people just don't describe them that way 15:05 -!- leczb [~leczb@nat/google/x-cmsgtgqawgbomyzz] has joined #go-nuts 15:05 < cde> ah, ok 15:06 <+iant> You could build a type based on []byte which is just as efficient as an STL string 15:06 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has joined #go-nuts 15:07 -!- shvntr_ [~shvntr@116.26.128.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:07 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-160-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:07 < cde> by the way, erlang has immutable byte arrays iirc 15:07 <+iant> Well, except that Go requires bounds checking and STL does not 15:07 -!- arun [~arun@2001:610:110:4e2:280:5aff:fe69:e130] has joined #go-nuts 15:07 -!- arun [~arun@2001:610:110:4e2:280:5aff:fe69:e130] has quit [Changing host] 15:07 -!- arun [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts 15:07 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:08 <+iant> In Go terms I'm not sure what the difference is between an immustable byte array and a string constant 15:08 <+iant> immutable 15:08 < cde> as string is UTF-8, so seeking is less efficient I guess 15:09 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@123.89.48.149] has joined #go-nuts 15:09 < jumzi> cde: O, good to know that erlang has it...? 15:09 <+iant> cde: when you index into a string, you are indexing by byte, not by character 15:10 <+iant> A string constant in Go source code is UTF-8 by default, but you can use backslashes to include any bytes you like, making it invalid UTF-8 if you like 15:10 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:10 < jumzi> No! Don't encourage that behavior *cry* 15:12 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:14 < cde> iant: right. I was actually thinking about range 15:16 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 < wrtp> jumzi: there are useful things you can do with that, e.g. http://blog.nella.org/?p=810 15:18 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B56C49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:18 -!- WonTu [~WonTu@p57B56C49.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #go-nuts [] 15:18 < wrtp> iant: in go terms, there's no such thing as an immutable byte array :-) 15:18 < wrtp> is there? 15:19 <+iant> well, if there *were* an immutable byte array, it would be the same as a string constant with different syntax 15:20 -!- leczb [~leczb@nat/google/x-cmsgtgqawgbomyzz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:20 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CFA7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:21 -!- leczb [~leczb@nat/google/x-sjpaecysyirlffpz] has joined #go-nuts 15:21 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 15:23 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:23 -!- wtfness [~dsc@89.211.86.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:24 -!- arun [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:24 -!- wtfness [~dsc@78.101.83.231] has joined #go-nuts 15:24 -!- arun [~arun@2001:610:110:4e2:280:5aff:fe69:e130] has joined #go-nuts 15:24 -!- arun [~arun@2001:610:110:4e2:280:5aff:fe69:e130] has quit [Changing host] 15:24 -!- arun [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts 15:24 -!- Cobi [~Cobi@2002:1828:88fb:0:aede:48ff:febe:ef03] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26 < wrtp> iant: yeah 15:28 -!- Cobi [~Cobi@2002:1828:88fb:0:aede:48ff:febe:ef03] has joined #go-nuts 15:28 < wrtp> iant: BTW i enjoyed your latest blog post. good to see some nice sf recommendations. must get the latest banks. 15:28 <+iant> thx 15:29 -!- jesmon [~user@static-71-244-114-122.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:31 < wrtp> iant: OT, but here's a recommendation for you. just read it & thought it was great: http://www.amazon.com/Air-Have-Not-Geoff-Ryman/dp/0312261217 15:31 <+iant> thanks, I haven't heard of it, I'll check it out 15:31 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:33 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@c-24-6-151-185.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:40 < kimelto> 6prof: ctlproc unimplemented in FreeBSD :'( 15:43 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #go-nuts 15:45 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:46 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50 -!- outworlder [~stephen@189.90.170.251] has joined #go-nuts 15:55 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:58 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF54C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:59 -!- 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Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:37 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.11.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39 -!- SoniaKeys [Alliebloom@c-24-91-112-191.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:47 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6h1S by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: Patrick Gavlin (individual CLA) 18:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6h2d by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/strconv/ -- strconv: update ftoa comment for 'E' and 'G' 18:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6h33 by [Robert Griesemer] in 5 subdirs of go/src/ -- go/ast: provide complete node text range info 18:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6h4P by [Patrick Gavlin] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc: rewrite complex /= to l = l / r. 18:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6h5O by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- merge tree -- [1 added, 1 modified] -- bug315.go (A), walk.c (U) 18:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6h62 by [Patrick Gavlin] in go/src/pkg/encoding/binary/ -- encoding/binary: reject types with 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Desu~] 19:28 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@123.89.48.149] has quit [Quit: 寡人入棺时辰已到] 19:34 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:35 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:38 -!- tav_ [~tav@92.7.83.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38 < Venom_X> hi, is there any way to debug go code in xcode's debugger gui? 19:38 -!- tav [~tav@92.7.83.241] has joined #go-nuts 19:39 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has joined #go-nuts 19:40 -!- gid [~gid@220.253-236-148.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 19:52 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:52 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:02 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 20:04 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:04 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:08 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.33.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:23 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.67.140] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 20:28 -!- pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-169-170.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:30 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-173-34.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:30 -!- illya77 [~illya77@170-20-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:30 < SoniaKeys> i do think a built in zero() would be nice, that would reset an object to the zero object for its type, as if it were just created. 20:34 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.67.140] has joined #go-nuts 20:36 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-111-165.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38 -!- outworlder [~stephen@189.90.170.251] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39 < exch> SoniaKeys: var foo T; <- that doesn't work for you? 20:40 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:40 < SoniaKeys> the first time, yes, but if you want to reuse foo, it would be nice to have an obvious way to zero it in place. 20:42 < exch> foo = nil; 20:42 < exch> nil always uses the zer value for that given type 20:42 < exch> *zero 20:43 < aiju> can't you even do &nil for pointers? 20:43 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 20:43 < exch> if foo is a slice for instance, foo = nil will set foo to a slice of type T with 0 length and 0 capacity 20:43 < exch> you can use it in append, or wherever as-is, because it is still a valid slice 20:44 < SoniaKeys> but if it is a struct, or an array? 20:44 < aiju> works similarly 20:46 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-68-160.btc-net.bg] has joined #go-nuts 20:50 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6GLJ by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/regexp/ -- regexp: implement early out for failed anchored search. 20:52 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:53 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 21:05 -!- illya77 [~illya77@170-20-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: illya77] 21:06 -!- LeNsTR [~lenstr@unaffiliated/lenstr] has quit [Quit: LeNsTR] 21:09 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:10 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:13 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has joined #go-nuts 21:17 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 21:21 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has joined #go-nuts 21:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6NsH by [Icarus Sparry] in go/lib/godoc/ -- The Dec 06 change 21:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/k6NsS by [Robert Griesemer] in 4 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- fix occurrences of occur[^sr .,?!;\n] 21:23 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:35 -!- photron_ [~photron@port-92-201-123-216.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:37 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 21:37 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@58-6-93-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 21:37 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #go-nuts 21:40 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has joined #go-nuts 21:53 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:57 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00 -!- tav [~tav@92.7.83.241] has quit [Quit: tav] 22:02 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 22:03 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:05 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:06 -!- l00t [~i-i3id3r_@189.105.2.99] has joined #go-nuts 22:08 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has joined #go-nuts 22:08 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:08 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:09 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176103079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:12 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:12 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:14 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:15 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:19 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@rnwifi-164-107-92-27.resnet.ohio-state.edu] has joined #go-nuts 22:19 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:21 -!- Kashia [~Kashia@port-92-200-5-186.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:22 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:22 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 22:25 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:26 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:32 -!- gid [~gid@220.253-236-148.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:34 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:35 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:35 -!- Mr_Dark [~dk@poviko.demon.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:38 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 22:39 -!- Mr_Dark [~dk@poviko.demon.nl] has joined #go-nuts 22:43 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:44 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:48 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-249-94-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:52 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:55 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:01 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:02 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:05 < jhawk28> hello 23:06 < jhawk28> I'm kinda new to pointers, how do I refer to the value of the pointer? 23:06 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 23:06 < Eko> jhawk28: often in Go, you don't need to dereference pointers 23:07 < Eko> if you do, say, val := new(Class); you can refer to the members of the class like val.member = blah. 23:07 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:07 < Eko> you can also call methods of val the same way, even though it's a *Class, like val.Method() 23:07 < Eko> if, however, you DO need to get the Class from a *Class, you can say *val. 23:08 < jhawk28> http://pastebin.com/NV3vS4sh 23:08 < jhawk28> thats what I am trying to do 23:09 < Eko> see http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Calls and http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Selectors 23:10 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:10 < Eko> jhawk28: I think you want num := 0; ... d.Decode(&num) 23:10 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-202-71.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:11 < jhawk28> nice, that was it 23:12 < jhawk28> does the & dereference the num? 23:13 < Eko> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Address_operators 23:13 < Eko> the & takes the address of the variable, makinga Type into a *Type 23:13 < Eko> the * gets the value at an address, making a *Type into a Type. 23:13 < jhawk28> makes sense 23:14 < Eko> the reason Decode needed a pointer to the int was because it has to be able to change an int, and values are passed by value not by reference in Go 23:14 < Venom_X> has anyone tried to get xcode to attach to a go program's process for debugging? 23:14 < jhawk28> haven't had too much experience with pointers as a mostly JVM dev 23:14 < Eko> so you need a pointer or a container type for the function to be able to modify it in such a way that the change sticks outside of the function. 23:15 < Eko> Venom_X: http://blog.golang.org/2010/11/debugging-go-code-status-report.html 23:15 < Venom_X> yeah, read that. I can debug in gdb.. but I really like the gui debugger 23:15 < Eko> jhawk28: then you will be most familiar with classes whose methods are all targeted on a pointer; e.g. func (c *Class) f(...) ... {...} 23:16 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CFA7C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16 < Eko> Venom_X: it's been too long since I used xcode; does it not have a gdb/mi target or anything? 23:16 < Venom_X> don't believe so. At least I haven't found that 23:17 < Eko> Venom_X: how hard was it to get gdb working in OS X? I haven't bothered doing it yet 23:17 < Venom_X> I know that in a project you can set all sorts of compiling options.. But, there isn't a go project AFAIK 23:17 < Eko> Venom_X: if there was, it'd be in $GOROOT/misc or $GOROOT/src/misc whichever 23:18 < jhawk28> is there a way to use the short initialization form (i := 0) to initialize i as an unsigned int? 23:18 < Venom_X> Eko: it's quite simple. Just get the 7.x gdb source compile and run chgrp procmod gdb; chmod g+s gdb; 23:19 < Venom_X> I'm installing ddd right now.. Hoping that'll work for me.. Haven't used it since I got into osx 23:20 < Eko> jhawk28: i:= uint(0) 23:20 < Eko> Venom_X: gotta head to dinner, maybe I'll try when I get back. I've hacked with xcode quite a bit, maybe I can get it working. 23:21 < Venom_X> Eko: thanks for the enthusiasm. Let me know what comes of it. Bon appetite 23:22 -!- jesmon [~user@static-71-244-114-122.albyny.fios.verizon.net] has left #go-nuts ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:24 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-45-238-234.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:26 < jhawk28> Eko: thanks for the help 23:30 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:31 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:32 -!- skejoe_ [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 23:33 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has joined #go-nuts 23:33 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.67.140] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 23:35 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:35 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@208.66.27.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:50 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-174-84.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-163-203.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:54 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:55 -!- enherit [~enherit@98.149.170.48] has quit [Quit: leaving] --- Log closed Wed Jan 05 00:00:01 2011