--- Log opened Mon May 17 00:00:56 2010
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01:23 < vrtical> can I ask a beginner's question?  What's going on in "for
i, x := range v { }" - is that an initialisation, a condition..?  What type does
range give and how does the for know when to stop?
01:24 < Ginto8> well range is a builtin "thing" (very scientific term) of
the for loop
01:25 < Ginto8> it iterates over an array, slice, channel (but that's
special), or map
01:25 < exch> if a type has an Iter() implementation, then range will use it
to fetch each consecutive element until there are non left
01:25 < Ginto8> it pretty much creates a foreach loop
01:25 < Ginto8> without having a foreach loop
01:26 < Ginto8> exch: orly?  so I can have a vector.Vector and iterate over
it, without having to iterate over Iter()?
01:26 < Ginto8> as in explicitly call Iter() and iterate over its channel
01:27 < sladegen> http://golang.org/pkg/exp/iterable/ perhaps...
01:27 < exch> you can call Iter() yourself if you want to
01:27 < exch> don't see why not.  it's just another function
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01:28 < Ginto8> but I don't have to call it explicitly
01:29 < exch> I doubt it.  range works on the channel returned by iter(),
not on the type that has the iter() function
01:29 < Ginto8> yeah just looked at the lang spec
01:30 < Ginto8> only maps,arrays,slices,pointers to arrays, and channels
will work
01:30 < Ginto8> so Iter() would have to be explicitly called
01:30 < exch> ya
01:30 < Ginto8> ok thanks =D
01:30 < exch> which kind of disqualifies my previous remark.  It's not about
the Iter().  you can name it whatever you want
01:31 * exch goes back to his cave
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01:33 < vrtical> Thanks guys.  I suppose I might have worked out what range
was from the language spec (it specifically lists a RangeClause for 'for') but I
hope you appreciate it's a little difficult for a learner to read.
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06:17 < madari> hmm
06:17 < madari> browsing through the Code one can see things like this:
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06:17 < madari> var zero interface{}
06:18 < madari> foo = zero // help the GC
06:18 < madari> is that more efficient than just setting foo = null?
06:19 < aho> no
06:19 < madari> ok...
06:24 < Soultaker> so why is that done then?
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06:32 < aho> superstition?
06:33 < aho> as far as gc schemes are concerned it only matters that you
drop the reference (e.g.  by assigning null)
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06:51 < madari> aho: thx
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09:12 < taruti> Seems like I/O is sucking much of the development momemtum
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09:31 < BrowserUk> taruti: care to expand on that?
09:31 < taruti> BrowserUk: the Google I/O conference, not much happening in
the repo.
09:37 < BrowserUk> taruti: I/O as in conference, rather than ...  Thanks.
09:42 < wrtp> it's not surprising really...
09:48 < taruti> Is there a way of making a CL depending on an another CL in
a nice fashion?
09:49 * taruti wants to get the Socketpair one in to start submittin Recvmsg
09:49 < taruti> then I can release fuse that depends on them.
09:55 < wrtp> taruti: not really
09:55 < wrtp> taruti: you just have to mention it in the remarks
09:56 < taruti> wrtp: but tricky to get the right changes since they change
the same files
09:56 < wrtp> there's no reason you can submit them all at once
09:56 < wrtp> just delete some of the files from the later CLs
09:57 < wrtp> and say that they depend on the earlier ones
09:57 < wrtp> i *think* that works.  i think i did it before.
09:57 < taruti> hmm
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10:04 < wrtp> taruti: have you submitted the first CL?
10:05 < taruti> wrtp: http://codereview.appspot.com/1199045/show
10:12 < wrtp> taruti: maybe it's been caught by their spam filters again: it
hasn't showed up in golang-dev
10:12 < wrtp> you have hg mailed it, right?
10:13 < taruti> yes, as appspot shows.
10:13 < wrtp> also, it's always worth naming one of the go team to review
it, rather than just golang-dev
10:13 < taruti> the appspot message is generated by hg mail
10:13 < taruti> yes, just don't know any of them
10:14 < wrtp> you don't have to
10:14 < wrtp> but they're responsible for actually submitting stuff
10:14 < wrtp> if in doubt, send it to rsc :-)
10:14 < wrtp> (who is amazingly efficient)
10:16 < wrtp> you're right about google io though - they'll all be out of
action this week
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15:35 < taruti> How does one use 6c/8c/...  C to return multiple values in a
Go-compatible way?
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15:49 < wrtp> taruti: i think you use goc
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15:55 < taruti> wrtp: yes, just the whole retn FLUSH(...) seems quite
nonstandard
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16:03 < wrtp> taruti: retn FLUSH(...) ??
16:04 < taruti> wrtp: runtime .c files seem to have such way of handling
multiple arguments.
16:08 < taruti> wrtp: see e.g.  http://golang.org/src/pkg/runtime/iface.c
unsafe┬ĚReflect
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16:11 < taruti> flush seems to be just USED()
16:13 < wrtp> yeah, but there's that #pragma textflag 7 in front of it
16:14 < wrtp> why do you want to do this anyway?
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16:23 < taruti> wrtp: I need to mess with syscall things that syscall
package does not export
16:23 < taruti> oh well, I can do it in asm too
16:24 < wrtp> taruti: what kind of things?
16:25 < taruti> wrtp: linux_386 socketcall
16:25 < wrtp> taruti: if you're doing that, i'd guess the FLUSH() thingy
would work ok
16:25 < taruti> seems like just copypasting the assembler code is the
cleanest way
16:26 < wrtp> what does socketcall give you that the individual socket calls
don't?
16:27 < taruti> wrtp: on i386 socket system calls have a specific ABI that
is different
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16:28 < wrtp> so...  what specific thing can't you do with the existing go
calls?
16:29 < taruti> wrtp: I need recvmsg to receive messages containing file
descriptors.  and that needs syscall.socketcall on linux-386 which is not
exported.
16:31 < wrtp> taruti: can't you use recvmsg?
16:31 < taruti> wrtp: in pure Go without needing libc?
16:32 < taruti> the copy-paste worked
16:32 < wrtp> well, recvmsg is just a syscall, right?
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16:34 < taruti> wrtp: it is a syscall that needs a spefic stack alignment
that is not exported on 386 linux
16:35 < wrtp> fair enough.  the wonderful world of linux...
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16:40 < taruti> but got it working
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16:45 < Ender2070> Tonnerre - Are you gonna get those packages into the
Fedora Repo?
16:46 < Ender2070> If you aren't I am going to do it
16:46 < Ender2070> I want to be able to "yum install go" or w/e
16:47 < Tonnerre> Ender2070, you're welcome to
16:48 < Tonnerre> I think golang would be more like it but well
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17:03 < Ender2070> yeah
17:03 < Ender2070> cool, i'll probably package up the apps too
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17:04 < ni|> wrtp: are you on linux?
17:05 < ni|> i've a few more syscall things to edit
17:05 < ni|> looking for cc's on this CL
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17:07 < Tonnerre> Ender2070, if you can get them into epel too that'd be
awesome :>
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17:09 < Ender2070> we'll see :)
17:09 < Ender2070> probably 6.x if anything though
17:09 < Ender2070> bbl
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17:09 < Tonnerre> I hope he meant EPEL 6, not Fedora 6
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17:37 < wrtp> ni|: no, mac os
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17:50 < ni|> ok
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19:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cdy1h by [Roger Peppe] in go/src/cmd/goyacc/
-- Add Error member to yyLexer type (yyError
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20:36 < taruti> transient fields + gob + structs including eachother seems
messy
20:36 < taruti> is there a nicer way of saying:
20:38 < taruti> type common_transient struct { ...  }; type
common_serialized struct { ...  }; type foo_transient struct { common_transient;
...  }; type foo_serialized struct { common_serialized; ...  }; type foo {
foo_transient; foo_serialized }
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20:45 < wrtp> how would you like to say it?
20:46 < taruti> wrtp: it looks unidiomatic, and I am wondering whether there
is a more idiomatic solution
20:46 < Ginto8> well do you have to have distinct transient/serialized/etc.
versions?
20:46 < Ginto8> if so, then that seems to be the most simple method
20:47 < taruti> Ginto8: telling gob to ignore the transient fields would
suffice.
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22:33 < Freejack> Does the go linker support shared elf libraries?
22:34 < Freejack> Compiled the Hello World example, and it came down to
729k.  Guessing that's the statically linked runtime.
22:35 < Tonnerre> Dynamic linking is so out :D
22:36 < Freejack> Tonnerre: Well, how do you suggest I get the size of
"Hello, World!" down to less than 4k.(Actually it shouldn't even be that large.  )
22:37 < Freejack> Looking through the docs.  They dont say.
22:37 < taruti> why do you need it down?
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22:39 < Freejack> taruti: Your seriously asking that question?  Why should
"Hello, World!" be less than a megabyte in size.
22:39 < Freejack> taruti: Your a programmer right?
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22:41 < taruti> Freejack: the sizes don't grow much, it is a constant
overhead.
22:41 < taruti> Freejack: and avoids issues with dynamic linking
22:41 < taruti> Freejack: how many megabytes of libraries are required for
e.g.  a Java helloworld?  C++?  perl?  python?  ...
22:42 < Freejack> taruti: I use Ada alot, and people complain that it
generates to large a binary by linking in the runtime.  To which I tell them to
use the shared runtime library.
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22:43 < Freejack> I can use syscall in Ada and generate a binary that's less
than 400bytes.
22:43 <+iant> 6g/8g do not currently support shared libraries; gccgo does
22:44 < Freejack> iant: Gotcha.
22:48 * Freejack is compiling gccgo
22:48 < Freejack> bbl
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22:49 < Ginto8> well he's gonna be disappointed
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22:56 < mpl> iant: is it even planned to have shared libs support with 6g
anyway?  I'd find that a bit odd given where 6g is coming from...
22:56 <+iant> no, there aren't any plans for that
22:56 < mpl> right.
23:02 < MizardX> Could anyone tell me why this simple program deadlocks?
I'm trying to generate pythagorian triplets.  http://ideone.com/qy0jK
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23:30 < kmeyer> iant: is there a gccgo feature list / TODO / bug tracker
floating around?  (Or some section of gcc's bug tracker?)
23:37 <+iant> kmeyer: not really, some of the Go project issues are for
gccgo--you can look for the gccgo label
23:37 <+iant> otherwise I'm mostly keeping it in my head
23:38 < exch> perhaps you could publish a daily backup of your brain for us
:)
23:39 <+iant> I'll get right on that
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23:39 <+iant> fortunately I am seeing the end of the tunnel on the SWIG work
23:40 <+iant> then I can get back to gccgo
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23:47 < Soultaker> what is the high level plan for gccgo anyway?
23:47 <+iant> make it a high quality Go compiler?
23:47 < Soultaker> so completely feature-complete but separate from the
native compiler?
23:47 <+iant> yes
23:47 < Soultaker> or are they arleady related?
23:47 <+iant> the runtime is partially but not completely shared
23:48 <+iant> the Go library is completely shared
23:48 <+iant> probably gccgo will pick up more and more of the 6g runtime
over time
23:48 <+iant> gccgo is already feature complete, by the way, except that I
haven't picked up the new panic/recover
23:48 < Soultaker> ah
23:49 <+iant> gccgo is likely to generate better code and run more slowly
than 6g
23:49 < Soultaker> it seemed strange to me to develop a completely working
native compiler and then suddenly decide to go with a gcc frontend instead
23:49 <+iant> that's what it does today, anyhow, and that will most likely
always be the case
23:49 <+iant> both compilers have their role
23:49 < Soultaker> I haven't checked it out.  6g seems to work excellently,
but the code generated can be significantly slower than C code (although it's hard
to compare fairly)
23:49 <+iant> anyhow, most languages have more than one compiler
23:50 < Soultaker> true, but it's nice to know which is the 'primary'
project
23:50 < Soultaker> (I wouldn't mistake Jython for CPython, or Mono for the
MS compiler)
23:50 <+iant> I suppose 6g is the primary project, though gccgo is my
personal primary project
23:51 < Soultaker> ah.
23:51 <+iant> the intention is that they are equivalent in the language and
libraries, though
23:52 < Soultaker> I should really check it out and see to what extent the
performance differences I've seen go away with gccgo
23:52 < Soultaker> (though I guess the runtime plays an important part in
performance too)
23:54 < chaos95> the biggest difference from what I've seen seems to be the
concurrency model
23:55 < Soultaker> how is that different?  isn't that part of the language
specification?
23:55 < Soultaker> (or did you mean between Go on one side and e.g.  C on
the other?)
23:55 < chaos95> no I mean between 6g and gccgo
23:56 < Ginto8> 6g is sorta concurrency within a thread
23:56 < chaos95> yeah
23:56 < Ginto8> whereas gccgo is one goroutine per thread
23:57 < Ginto8> (which makes inter-goroutine communication a lot slower)
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23:58 < Soultaker> so no more creating thousands of goroutines?
23:58 < Ginto8> not in gccgo
23:58 < Soultaker> and no more unbuffered channels?
23:58 < Ginto8> pretty much
23:59 < Ginto8> but any go compiler based on gcc would have the same
problems
23:59 < Soultaker> although I guess no more weird almost-deadlocks when all
the threads are claimed by long-running goroutines either
23:59 < exch> interesting tradeoff you'd have to consider then
23:59 < Ginto8> IIRC, it would require a change in the fundamentals of the
gcc backend
--- Log closed Tue May 18 00:00:05 2010