--- Log opened Wed Jul 20 00:00:01 2011
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00:42 < fzzbt> how do you emulate enum in go?
00:43 < fzzbt> i want to put consts in one place like enum does in C. like
MyTypes.A, MyTypes.B, MyTypes.C instead of const (MyTypeA MyTypeB MyTypeC)
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00:45 < qeed> so after you build a cgo file and get the .a i know you can
use it if you install it in the go root pkg dir, how do you use it locally, any
linking flag or something?
00:46 < exch> Go doesnt have anything like enums.  constants are you closest
approximation.  If you reall must have the perceived namespacing, yu can put the
constants in a separate package named 'mytype' and import that.  That sees a bit
overkill though
00:46 < str1ngs> qeed: if you installed it to GOROOT.  just use import
"<TARG>" w/e the name TARG is in you Makefile
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00:47 < qeed> how do you do it locally?
00:47 < exch> Otherise you can use the -I and -L compiler/linker flags, or
supply aa relative path to the .a in the import statement: import
"../somedir/mypkg"
00:47 < exch> the latter is a bit messy though
00:48 < exch> I would prefer to use the compiler/linker flags and just
import normally
00:48 < qeed> is there a better build tool in the works, this whole package
thing is more complicated than C for me heh
00:49 < exch> There is one in the works
00:50 < qeed> thank god
00:51 < qeed> be nice if it can interleave cgo files easily too
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01:05 < jessta_> brandini: Go has really nice integration with asm and C,
how much lower level do people need to go?
01:05 < brandini> :)
01:05 < brandini> right!
01:05 < brandini> I really like it
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03:49 < crazy2be> night world
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05:14 < Chat7574> yoo
05:14 < chomp> hoo
05:14 < Chat7574> yoo
05:15 < chomp> polo?
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09:32 < wrtp> kevlar_work: just saw your remarks yesterday.  if
net.Conn.Close isn't thread-safe, it's a bug, because it is supposed to be.
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11:17 < gokahvi> What does error "main.go:19: implicit assignment of
unexported field 'buf' of packet.Packet in function argument" mean?  (Code snippet
coming in a minute)
11:19 < Crnobog|Work> Basically it means you should be using the
construction method exported by packet rather than newing a Packet yourself
11:19 < gokahvi> http://pastie.org/2242298
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11:20 < gokahvi> Unless I've missed something important, I'm not newing it
myself.
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11:21 < Crnobog|Work> That main you've posted there doesn't look 19 lines
long
11:22 < nicka> When you have unexported fields in an exported type I think
you can only deal with pointers to that type
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11:27 < gokahvi> nicka,That fixed the problem, thanks.
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11:30 < gokahvi> Crnobog|Work, I reduced the amout of code to make it more
clear.  Forgot to mention the line of error though.  It was the "Test(*p)" line.
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12:05 < Byob> hey
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12:26 < skelterjohn> hi
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13:24 < AndrewBC> do you guys happen to know of anyone working on a project
where they compile <thing> to go?  I've tried searching but the results I
get are all about compiling go :/
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13:26 < AndrewBC> I'm seriously considering switching from llvm to go
because llvm prefers to ignore concurrency, and explicit stack management with
C+llvm seems a bit much for to have to implement just to get my language runtime
working, when go already has it addressed
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13:28 < zozoR> AndrewBC, no
13:28 < aiju> you want to compile C to Go?
13:28 < AndrewBC> aiju: nah, my own language design
13:29 < nsf> languages, languages, we need more languages
13:29 < nsf> :D
13:29 < AndrewBC> nsf, verily a secular tower of babel
13:29 < aiju> nsf has his own C × Go language
13:29 < aiju> he knows what he's talking about
13:30 < nsf> I think JetBrains guys announced their own langauge for JVM
recently
13:31 < nsf> I'm pretty sure I saw that on one of the news feeds
13:31 < nsf> can't find it though (
13:32 < exch> code.google.com/p/jgo
13:33 < nsf> http://www.jetbrains.com/kotlin/
13:33 < nsf> right, here it is
13:33 < nsf> Kotlin programming language :)
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13:34 < AndrewBC> nsf, interesting.  A language born of "Ugh, why doesn't
Java have this!?"
13:34 < nsf> AndrewBC: all languages born like that
13:34 < nsf> and die
13:34 < nsf> I'm not saying you shouldn't make your own language
13:34 < nsf> but it's a scary trend lately
13:34 < nsf> lots of new languages :)
13:35 < nsf> the question is
13:35 < nsf> who needs them :)
13:35 < aiju> there is C
13:36 < rzoz> i keep thinking i should switch to one of those
let's-improve-our-use-of-the-jvm languages whenever i'm forced to use java, but am
never sure which one.
13:36 < wrtp> AndrewBC: compiling to Go shouldn't be any harder than
compiling to C
13:36 < aiju> why do you even use the jvm
13:36 < nsf> in Mono/.NET there is a language like that as well
13:36 < nsf> http://boo.codehaus.org/
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13:37 < nsf> better than C#, I think
13:37 < nsf> at least program is not required to be a class
13:37 < nsf> and less "public static void" things
13:37 < AndrewBC> wrtp: nah I think it will be even easier than C. I was
just wondering if there was an existing project I can look at to short circuit
some of the "hard way" learning I'd have to do.
13:38 < rzoz> aiju: client (gov't) restrictions in this case
13:38 < AndrewBC> Not that I'm opposed to doing it ;)
13:38 < wrtp> what sort of stuff are you thinking of?  just knowing the
language is a good start...
13:38 < nsf> AndrewBC: I have experience generating both C and LLVM code for
a purpose of compiling my own language source code
13:38 < nsf> actually these two things aren't that different
13:38 < rzoz> i looked at boo around 2006-07, but it didn't seem ready.  i
assume it is better now.
13:39 < nsf> and both are easy
13:39 < nsf> certainly
13:39 < nsf> generating code is easy
13:39 < nsf> generating efficient code is hard
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13:40 < nsf> and LLVM is not a silver bullet sadly
13:40 < nsf> I have an example
13:40 < AndrewBC> Well, when I was targeting llvm I was actually making a
gradually typed mixed-paradigm (functional or procedural functions), and actors.
13:40 < nsf> where gcc compiler C code 1.5x faster than Clang compiled C
code
13:40 < AndrewBC> with go, I'm not quite sure I'll be able to keep the
functional paradigm
13:40 < nsf> gcc compiled*
13:41 < nsf> and that's not a stupid benchmark sadly, it's an actual inner
loop performance critical code :(
13:41 < nsf> didn't try to figure out what's wrong though
13:42 < AndrewBC> :(
13:42 < nsf> AndrewBC: functional paradigm requires (I think) tail call
optimization
13:42 < nsf> Go is a bad target at the moment because of that
13:42 < AndrewBC> nsf, yeah :/
13:42 < nsf> compiler has no inlining (afaik)
13:42 < rzoz> nsf: yes
13:42 < nsf> and no tail call optimizations
13:42 < aiju> gcc doesn't have TCO in the general case either
13:43 < nsf> sure
13:43 < nsf> LLVM has :)
13:43 < AndrewBC> indeed :>
13:43 < aiju> with magic?
13:43 < nsf> although I'm not suggesting using it
13:43 < nsf> there are alternatives also
13:43 < nsf> maybe Mono/.NET as a target
13:43 < nsf> and JVM of course
13:44 < aiju> or just fucking generate code
13:44 < nsf> weeelll
13:44 < AndrewBC> While those are viable alternatives in the general sense,
I really don't want to spend time learning them at this point :D
13:44 < AndrewBC> aiju: that's what I do now, heh <.<
13:44 < nsf> that's for real programmers with beards
13:44 < AndrewBC> \o/
13:44 < aiju> haha
13:44 < nsf> AndrewBC: do you have a beard?
13:44 < nsf> :)
13:44 < AndrewBC> nsf: I do
13:44 < nsf> hehe
13:44 < AndrewBC> a glorious red beard down to my sternum
13:44 < aiju> these are all just instruction sets
13:45 < nsf> aiju: but building optimizers isn't exactly simple
13:45 < nsf> I've seen dmd's backend code
13:45 < nsf> (digital mars D compiler)
13:45 * mpl can only grow a mustache.  :( does that half count?
13:45 < AndrewBC> mpl: that certainly counts, though you'll have to have a
funny accent to match :D
13:46 < nsf> anyways
13:46 < nsf> lots of choices
13:46 < nsf> just choose one and go for it
13:46 < AndrewBC> I'm about 99% settled on go, especially since I've already
written some code generation :|
13:47 < wrtp> completely different question: is there somewhere on the web
serving docs for r57.1 ?
13:48 < wrtp> or do i have to run my own godoc (reluctant because i'm
already doing too much on this laptop...)
13:49 < mpl> wrtp: goneat?
13:49 < wrtp> niemeyer: any way to get look at versions other than tip and
weekly?  (r57.1 is the version used for appengine go)
13:49 < wrtp> mpl: yeah, that's what i'm wondering
13:49 < nsf> wrtp: nosmileface.ru/go - these are for weekly 2011-05-22,
maybe somewhat close to that release
13:49 < nsf> I'm not updating them anymore :(
13:49 * nsf is lazy
13:50 < wrtp> i'd prefer the exact version
13:50 < mpl> ah, you want something older, I had gotten it the other way
around.
13:50 < wrtp> i seem to remember they put lots of things in just after the
release
13:52 < mpl> wrtp: if it's only temporary, I can run it and host it for you.
I doubt that will be more convenient than your laptop though.
13:52 < niemeyer> wrtp: Hey Rog
13:52 < niemeyer> wrtp: You mean for docs?
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13:52 < niemeyer> wrtp: Ah, yeah, I see the context
13:53 < niemeyer> wrtp: No, weekly and tip only ATM
13:53 < nsf> maybe it's worth raising that topic on the ML? I'm pretty sure
google guys can host godoc for appengine version
13:54 < wrtp> niemeyer: ok, thanks
13:54 < nsf> I mean it's a documentation for the service after all :)
13:54 < mpl> heh, why not an appengine hosted godoc then?  :)
13:54 < wrtp> that's true.  it seems an odd omission
13:55 < nsf> mpl: interesting idea as well :)
13:55 < mpl> can't anyone apply for appengine?
13:55 < wrtp> mpl: i don't know if godoc is appengine hostable yet
13:55 < mpl> why not?
13:55 < wrtp> they're certainly moving towards it
13:55 <+iant> Robert is working on putting godoc on appengine
13:55 < mpl> ah, good to know, thx.
13:55 < erus`> theres no windows go appengine :(
13:55 < wrtp> iant: do you know if there's any place i can see r57.1 godocs
on the web?
13:56 <+iant> wrtp: I don't know, sorry
13:56 <+iant> erus`: I'm not sure that even makes sense....
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13:56 < mpl> what's preventing that to be done atm?  (godoc on appengine)
13:56 < erus`> sdk i mean
13:56 < mpl> I thought the main restriction on appengine was i/o?
13:56 <+iant> erus`: oh, yeah, that would be helpful but I don't know what
would be involved
13:57 < erus`> the python one works
13:57 < erus`> copy that
13:57 <+iant> mpl: nothing is restricting it particularly; I think the main
issue is getting the sources that godoc searches there in a reasonable way
13:57 < wrtp> mpl: godoc also builds indexes, which might not be rebuilt
each time i guess
13:57 <+iant> erus`: I don't work on appengine myself, I don't know what is
involved
13:58 < erus`> the prices just got ridiculous anyway did they not?
everyone's moving to heroku and others
13:58 <+iant> I've seen Robert running it on appengine, but there is still
something left to do, I don't know what
13:58 < mpl> wrtp: can't the indexes live in mem?
13:59 < wrtp> mpl: yeah, but it takes a while to build them - so if they
live in mem, you're gonna have to wait a long time for your search result if you
hit a new instance
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14:00 < skelterjohn|work> mornin
14:00 < skelterjohn|work> g
14:00 < mpl> oh well
14:01 < nsf> skelterjohn|work: hello
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14:03 * wrtp is now running godoc on a r57.1 source tree...
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14:10 * wrtp has now back ported exp/template to the appengine release...
14:12 < exch> It sure is a nice package
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14:14 < wrtp> exch: it's certainly a lot more powerful and regular than the
previous template package
14:14 < wrtp> i like to think that rob's changes grew out of a discussion
between myself and niemeyer :-)
14:16 < exch> if that's the case, thanks :p
14:17 < jlaffaye> is it the default now?
14:17 < exch> not yet afaik
14:17 < exch> it's still in exp
14:17 < skelterjohn|work> it will probably remain in there for a little
while yet
14:17 < niemeyer> wrtp: It surely has
14:18 < skelterjohn|work> people still use the old template package.  like
me, for instance
14:18 < skelterjohn|work> i suppose i should try to migrate
14:18 < hokapoka> Oh, I was just about to start something new with the
template package.
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14:18 < wrtp> it is walking a fine line between simplicity and turing
completeness...
14:18 < exch> It makes my static website generator a lot more versatile and
sane
14:19 < wrtp> which is something i'm not quite sure about
14:19 < hokapoka> How could I obtain the new package?
14:19 < wrtp> hokapoka: import "exp/template"
14:19 < skelterjohn|work> it's in the weekly
14:19 < skelterjohn|work> i do'nt think it has made it to release
14:19 < skelterjohn|work> or at least, golang.org/pkg/exp/template doesn't
work
14:19 < hokapoka> Oh it's in weekly already.
14:20 < wrtp> skelterjohn|work: they might provide a tool to automatically
migrate old-style templates to the new package
14:20 < wrtp> i don't think it would be too hard - the old format is much
more limited
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14:20 < skelterjohn|work> i only have a couple, so it's better for me to
learn how the new package works and do it by hand
14:20 < exch> ya
14:20 < skelterjohn|work> i do like that "{{ }}" is the default instead of
"{ }"
14:21 < wrtp> niemeyer: it still hasn't got your "filter contents through a
function" feature though
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14:21 < wrtp> niemeyer: i'm still pondering that one
14:22 < exch> mm I think this is the first that the author of a C lib I
wrapped is following my bindings repo on github
14:22 < niemeyer> wrtp: No worries on that..  Rob's original intention
wasn't really to introduce any new features, even though he did in the end
14:22 < wrtp> he certainly did
14:22 < skelterjohn|work> exch: nice
14:22 < niemeyer> wrtp: He was just extremely frustrated with the terrible
parsing logic there
14:22 < wrtp> yeah, as was i - i remember saying to you: this is more than
an afternoon's work!
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14:23 < niemeyer> wrtp: It ended up being an afternoon work mostly, but had
bugs due to my own inability to keep that logic sane
14:23 < exch> He eventually just tossed it all and started from scratch?
14:23 < niemeyer> exch: Yep
14:23 < exch> hehe
14:23 < wrtp> exch: yeah - it needed doing
14:23 < wrtp> hence "more than an afternoon's work"...
14:24 < wrtp> it's been really nice to see rob take the ball and run with it
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14:29 < hokapoka> Is this the fomatters change that I saw you talking about
on the groups?
14:29 < niemeyer> I offered to do the work, but I'm glad he decided to take
on his own too..  he ended up doing a lot more than simply refactoring
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14:39 < hokapoka> OMG, there's a heap of new stuff.  great.
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14:42 < exch> Go releases are like christmas
14:42 < skelterjohn|work> lol
14:42 < hokapoka> heh
14:43 < niemeyer> exch: True :-)
14:48 < hokapoka> Is it normal for the playground.js to be missing from
godoc -http?
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14:49 < skelterjohn|work> it is for me, too
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14:49 < skelterjohn|work> i don't know if that's normal or not - i don't run
godoc as a web server
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14:49 < pharris> It's normal.  IIRC, it depends on some unreleased
Google-only stuff, so they don't ship it.
14:50 < hokapoka> Oh yeah that makes sence.
14:50 < hokapoka> I keep forgetting to use the cli commands for godoc, I'll
have to try and remember as it'll probablly be faster that navigating the browser.
14:51 < skelterjohn|work> check out https://github.com/nsf/gortfm
14:52 < skelterjohn|work> a really speedy web interface for the docs
14:52 < nsf> I should add it's not maintained anymore
14:52 < skelterjohn|work> there is that
14:52 < nsf> :)
14:52 < skelterjohn|work> let me see if it still builds
14:53 < skelterjohn|work> it does not - recent changes to exec
14:53 < skelterjohn|work> among other things - all easy fixes though
14:54 < nsf> I'll fix it someday
14:54 < nsf> :)
14:54 < nsf> not sure when
14:54 < skelterjohn|work> i'm fixing it
14:55 < skelterjohn|work> i thought you didn't write go code anymore
14:55 < hokapoka> oh, I'll stop then :)
14:55 < nsf> skelterjohn|work: I write fixes, occasionally
14:58 < wrtp> run at tip - have christmas every day :-)
14:59 < exch> But if it's holiday every day, it wont mean anything anymore
:p
14:59 < hokapoka> gofix managed to fix the splitstring errors, but not the
exec.Run|Pipe
15:01 < skelterjohn|work> also if it's a holiday every day, you never get
any work done
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15:02 < hokapoka> and without any work, there'll be no more go releases to
celebrate
15:02 < wrtp> skelterjohn|work: luckily i'm not working until sept :-)
15:02 < aiju> a week without go releases is a week where your code still
works
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15:04 < wrtp> my exp/template stuff worked first time.  i am suspicious!
15:04 < skelterjohn|work> i know the feeling
15:05 < skelterjohn|work> anyone know why http://pastebin.com/AG2TZch6
panics on line 16, "read |0: bad file descriptor"?
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15:10 < nsf> weird
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15:14 < pharris> skelterjohn|work: Run waits for the app to finish, and
closes all the pipes.
15:14 < pharris> Maybe you meant Start()?
15:15 < skelterjohn|work> i did not - having the app finish and close the
pipes is desired behavior
15:15 < skelterjohn|work> presumably there is some sort of buffering going
on...
15:15 < pharris> You can't read from a closed pipe.
15:15 < skelterjohn|work> it's not like a closed channel with messages
remaining?
15:15 < pharris> Output() looks like a nice Run-and-return-results helper.
15:15 < nsf> no
15:16 < nsf> closed pipe is a "bad file descriptor"
15:17 < skelterjohn|work> ok, i set cmd.Stdout to a bytes.Buffer I create
and it seems to work fine
15:17 < skelterjohn|work> thanks
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15:18 < skelterjohn|work> err, until it got to "go/build", then cmd.Run()
returns "exit status 1", from running the gortfm cmd line
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15:19 < nsf> go/build?
15:19 < skelterjohn|work> a package
15:19 < nsf> a new one
15:19 < nsf> interesting
15:20 < nsf> well, I have no idea what's wrong :)
15:20 < nsf> and frankly I don't want to know :)
15:20 < skelterjohn|work> yeah my interest in tracking down the issue is
pretty low too
15:21 < skelterjohn|work> gortfm also doesn't work right when there are
greek letters in the docs
15:21 < nsf> :(
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15:24 < skelterjohn|work> go/build has an auto-generated source file that
was in the makefile GOFILES list, but not actually there
15:24 < nsf> I see
15:24 < nsf> yeah, that may cause it
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15:29 < Sh4rK> hi
15:29 < skelterjohn|work> hello
15:29 < Sh4rK> If I parse a html with html.  Parse it returns a *html.Node
15:30 < Sh4rK> now what I want to do is do something like type Node
html.Node
15:30 < Sh4rK> so I can add methods to it
15:30 < skelterjohn|work> sounds reasonable
15:30 < Sh4rK> but hten how do I convert *html.Nodes to *Nodes?
15:30 < Sh4rK> *then
15:30 < skelterjohn|work> here is something that might work better
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15:31 < skelterjohn|work> type Node struct { *html.Node }
15:31 < skelterjohn|work> then you can make one by writing
"Node{whatJustGotParsed}"
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15:31 < Sh4rK> cool
15:31 < skelterjohn|work> your Node type will have all of *html.Node's types
(unlike if you do "type Node html.Node")
15:31 < Sh4rK> but then I guess I have to wrap every childnode too with this
15:32 < skelterjohn|work> you could give your Node type a method that gets
children and wraps them in your Node type
15:32 < Sh4rK> ok
15:32 < Sh4rK> thanks
15:36 < nsf> http://gosu-lang.org/
15:36 < nsf> one more language I haven't heard about
15:36 < nsf> :\
15:36 < nsf> so many languages
15:37 < skelterjohn|work> i wonder if there are any jvm-based languages that
have coroutines
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15:37 < nsf> does jvm support coroutines?
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15:37 < skelterjohn|work> you'd have to be clever about it
15:38 < nsf> jython maybe, no?
15:38 < skelterjohn|work> in the same way that the go runtime is
15:39 < Sh4rK> skelterjohn|work, isn't there a way to do what I want without
the need to allocate new memory?
15:39 < Sh4rK> because I guess Node{*html.Node} allocates new mwmory
15:39 < skelterjohn|work> no more than keeping track of a *html.Node does
15:39 < skelterjohn|work> it's just a pointer dressed up in semantics
15:40 < skelterjohn|work> even if it were a bit more, this would be
over-optimization
15:40 < skelterjohn|work> compared to the memory allocated when the html is
parsed, this is trivial
15:40 < Sh4rK> isn't there a way to just change the tyle?
15:40 < Sh4rK> :D
15:40 < Sh4rK> *type
15:40 < skelterjohn|work> seriously
15:41 < skelterjohn|work> it does not allocate more than you would if you
just tracked a *html.Node
15:41 < Sh4rK> but When I wrap all nodes
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15:41 < Sh4rK> well
15:41 < Sh4rK> how do I do it?
15:41 < skelterjohn|work> func (n *Node) GetChild(index int) (child *Node) {
15:42 < skelterjohn|work> oops,
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15:42 < skelterjohn|work> http://pastebin.com/s7an379P
15:43 < Sh4rK> oh ok
15:43 < Sh4rK> I thought about changing them at once
15:43 < Sh4rK> permanently
15:43 < skelterjohn|work> i think that'd be a waste of time
15:43 < skelterjohn|work> and memory O:-)
15:44 < Sh4rK> and then the struct had to be changed to point to Node types
instead of html.Node
15:44 < skelterjohn|work> i can understand why you're hesitant to mirror the
entire tree
15:44 < skelterjohn|work> but that's unnecessary - you can do it on the fly
15:44 < Sh4rK> ok
15:45 < skelterjohn|work> actually i want to change my suggestion a bit
15:45 < skelterjohn|work> don't use *Node as the method receiver - use Node
15:45 < skelterjohn|work> and return Node{n.Child[index]}
15:45 < Sh4rK> ok
15:45 < skelterjohn|work> no reason to return a pointer to the Node struct,
since all it is is a pointer itself
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15:46 < Sh4rK> yeah
15:46 < Sh4rK> I think the html package is lacking some features to actually
work with html
15:46 < Sh4rK> :)
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15:47 < Sh4rK> now
15:47 < Sh4rK> what do I do insteAad of
15:47 < Sh4rK> for _, c := range n.Child {
15:47 < Sh4rK> ?
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15:48 < Sh4rK> write a function that returns a slice of Node{*html.Node} ?
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15:48 < skelterjohn|work> you could do that.
15:48 < Sh4rK> I think it would be useful if one could write method for
other packages' types
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15:48 < skelterjohn|work> i feel like you understand how the language can
deal with this thing, now
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15:49 < skelterjohn|work> Sh4rK: not gonna happen
15:49 < Sh4rK> why?
15:49 < Sh4rK> what's the reason?
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15:50 < skelterjohn|work> if you could add a method to a type in a package
you don't control, and pass it off into an interface that dependson your extra
method
15:50 < skelterjohn|work> then how would the place you pass it off know
about this extra method?
15:50 < skelterjohn|work> all information about a type needs to come from
one place - the package that defines it
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15:51 < Sh4rK> then a way to change types
15:51 < Sh4rK> so I could do type Node html.Node
15:51 < Sh4rK> and do Node(html.Node)
15:51 < Sh4rK> or something
15:52 < Sh4rK> to be able to extend it
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15:52 < skelterjohn|work> you can.  that's what we've been talking about
this whole time
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15:53 < Sh4rK> no
15:53 < Sh4rK> because you can't use Node.Child to access the child nodes
15:54 < Sh4rK> you have to wrap them every time you use them
15:54 < skelterjohn|work> so you want something that doesn't have the same
structure as html.Node
15:54 < Sh4rK> that way you could just change all node
15:54 < Sh4rK> it has the same structure
15:54 < Sh4rK> but other methods
15:54 < skelterjohn|work> no it doesn't - the children are your *Node
instead of *html.Node
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15:55 < Sh4rK> oop
15:55 < Sh4rK> s
15:55 < Sh4rK> yeah
15:55 < Sh4rK> I forgot that
15:55 < Sh4rK> ok
15:55 < skelterjohn|work> that may seem like a trivial difference, if you
are used to C
15:55 < Sh4rK> then
15:55 < Sh4rK> another idea
15:55 < skelterjohn|work> but in go, the type has a much stronger meaning
15:55 < Sh4rK> would it be possible to pass a type to parse for it to use
instead of the default one?
15:56 < skelterjohn|work> i don't know the html package veyr well, but i
doubt it
15:56 < skelterjohn|work> but ta the same time, it's certainly possible to
write code that can do that
15:56 < skelterjohn|work> with a node factory function of some sort
15:56 < skelterjohn|work> anyway, it's lunch time
15:56 < skelterjohn|work> later
15:56 < Sh4rK> I meant can it be written that way
15:56 < Sh4rK> ok
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15:58 < Sh4rK> how can I get the length of a slice?
16:03 < hokapoka> len(s)
16:03 < Sh4rK> thanks
16:03 < hokapoka> fyi, range returns the index.
16:04 < hokapoka> for i, o := range foo { } // i contains the index, and o
contains the ref to the item in the slice.
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18:15 * skelterjohn|work curses race conditions
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18:17 < nicka2> what was the cause
18:18 < skelterjohn|work> i have yet to find it
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18:18 < skelterjohn|work> but since sometimes my program works, and
sometimes it doesn't, and i have lots of concurrency, i'm betting i did something
stupid
18:18 < vegai> http://www.airs.com/blog/archives/482
18:19 < nicka2> heisenbugs suck
18:21 < skelterjohn|work> the author has a more specific definition of "race
condition" than the one i use
18:22 < aiju> my definition of race condition
18:22 < skelterjohn|work> "Race conditions only occur when sharing memory."
18:22 < aiju> if user.skin == black {
18:22 < skelterjohn|work> *sad trombone*
18:22 < nicka2> Is there a best of aiju archive somewhere?
18:22 <+iant> I wrote that blog entry, by the way
18:22 < skelterjohn|work> but i define a race condition as code that can
behave differently (and wrongly) under some legal ordering of the instructions
18:23 < vegai> nicka2: /dev/null?  har har har.
18:23 < skelterjohn|work> so you did
18:23 < skelterjohn|work> i agree that most or nearly all race conditions
come from sharing memory, and the one i'm hunting almost certainly does
18:24 < skelterjohn|work> but i think you can get them with unthoughtful
communication, too
18:24 <+iant> I see what you mean
18:24 < uriel> nicka2: http://fortunes.cat-v.org/cat-v/
18:24 < skelterjohn|work> the distinction is academic, though
18:25 < skelterjohn|work> iant: i think your site just went down
18:26 <+iant> my poor little site just got clobbered, though I would have
thought it could handle the number of people in this chat
18:26 < skelterjohn|work> lol
18:26 <+iant> i just bounced it, should be up again
18:27 <+iant> my hardware is 11 years old, I dread the day it actually dies
18:27 < skelterjohn|work> is the server go-based?
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18:27 <+iant> no, that would be nice, but it's just apache and wordpress
18:27 < skelterjohn|work> i think that's the problem, then
18:27 <+iant> yeah
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18:35 < skelterjohn|work> but that was an interesting article, thanks for
putting it up there
18:35 < skelterjohn|work> i went to the international conference on
automated planning systems (well, it's ICAPS and that is a plausible thing for it
to stand for)
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18:35 < uriel> iant: are you coming over to Sweden this summer?  :)
18:36 < skelterjohn|work> and there i met a guy who was doing race condition
static analysis by simulating possible orderings
18:36 < skelterjohn|work> not all possible orderings, but samples from the
set of possible orderings
18:36 <+iant> uriel: no, alas, our daughter rebelled; perhaps next summer
18:36 <+iant> how's the weather there this year?
18:40 < uriel> iant: too hot for me, but I hate hot weather, it is under 30C
18:40 < uriel> some rain, but lots of sun too
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18:41 <+iant> sound nice
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18:42 < uriel> Sweden in spring/summer is always really nice
18:42 < skelterjohn|work> i've heard that there is really great hiking there
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18:43 < uriel> not quite enough mountains for what I would call great hiking
(at least not near stockholm), but everything else is great
18:43 < uriel> great sailing too
18:44 < skelterjohn|work> that's something i've always wanted to pick up
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18:49 < erus`> we are sailing...  we are sailing...
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18:52 < uriel> skelterjohn|work: let me know if you pass by Stockholm, I
will show you around
18:53 < skelterjohn|work> maybe a conference will get hosted there some time
18:53 < skelterjohn|work> i'll try to remember your offer if it comes up :)
18:53 < skelterjohn|work> thanks
18:55 < skelterjohn|work> well, i didn't really find the race condition, but
i seem to have eliminated it
18:55 < skelterjohn|work> i blame exch's glfw code
18:57 < nicka2> What is it you're working on?
18:59 < skelterjohn|work> something called parallel tempering
18:59 < skelterjohn|work> how interested are you in inference?
19:00 < skelterjohn|work> i'm happy to talk about it, but it's a bit off
topic :)
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19:05 < nicka2> I'm taking off so don't bother, but parallel tempering
sounds cool
19:06 < nicka2> I was mostly curious what the glfw code was for
19:06 < nicka2> and then what you're using to do the drawing
19:06 < nicka2> go-opengl I assume
19:06 < skelterjohn|work> banthar's package, yeah
19:07 < skelterjohn|work> i'm using visualizations to sanity-check the
inference
19:07 < skelterjohn|work> hard to debug this sort of thing without something
to look at
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19:07 < nicka2> I haven't looked at it closely
19:08 < nicka2> Does it do more recent opengl stuff
19:08 < nicka2> 3+
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> no, i just draw a bunch of polygons
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> nothing fancy
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> i'm not really a graphics guy
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> it's all in 2d
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19:08 < nicka2> Do you know if his package supports it?  Don't bother
looking if you don't know off hand
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> no ide
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> a
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19:10 < skelterjohn|work> http://imgur.com/GXlwe
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19:12 < Namegduf> It's not true.  I write C# at work and I have no letters
after my name.  :(
19:13 < skelterjohn|work> you should pay a couple hundred for some MS certs
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> but the bit about java, fluorescent lighting and
financial applications really rang true with me
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> that's basically the reason i went to grad school
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> avoid that kind of stuff
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> i don't know if i'll succeed or not
19:16 < Namegduf> Yeah, at least the application I'm working on isn't
boring.
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19:17 < skelterjohn|work> what kind of stuff do you work on?
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19:17 < Namegduf> Desktop application, nothing particularly fancy in terms
of algorithms.
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19:18 < skelterjohn|work> i think it's fun to write software that people
will actually use
19:19 < skelterjohn|work> my job before school, that was not the case.
purely demos for grant-getting purposes
19:19 < Namegduf> Ah.
19:19 < Namegduf> Yeah.
19:20 < Namegduf> It's nice to know that the stuff you've been working on
actually is of some use, to someone somewhere.
19:21 < exch> It is nice
19:22 < aiju> i wrote software in use at Austrian Airlines and Lufthansa
19:23 < skelterjohn|work> i just flew lufthansa to and from barcelona
19:23 < skelterjohn|work> hooray
19:23 < aiju> heh
19:23 < aiju> just ground stuff
19:23 < aiju> no need to fear
19:23 < skelterjohn|work> i've already survived, in any case
19:23 < taruti> he just programmed the planes to crash on runways as opposed
to air
19:24 < aiju> hahahaa
19:24 < Namegduf> he ground is the thing I fear most while flying, though
19:24 < skelterjohn|work> i have a friend who used to work in an avionics
place, and he said the stress of writing code that can affect how a plane flies
was way too much
19:25 < exch> Every keystroke can mean the difference between life and
death..  Just like medical software.  Idoubt I could handle that
19:25 < skelterjohn|work> i don't think it'd bother me, personally
19:25 < skelterjohn|work> but perhaps that is the arrogance of saying
"better me than someone else"
19:25 < skelterjohn|work> completely unjustified, btw
19:26 < aiju> testing for medical software must be insane
19:27 < aiju> that is, after the therac-25, haha
19:28 < skelterjohn|work> most of it is in user interface testing, i'd think
19:28 < Namegduf> Yeah.  No good if your logic is right if the display
screws up causing an operator to do something wrong.
19:28 < skelterjohn|work> i'm on the fence about the therac-25...  on one
hand, the operators pushed a button to explicitly ignore the error saying that
something dangerous would happen
19:28 < skelterjohn|work> on the other hand, that error came up so often
that they were desensitized
19:29 < aiju> the therac-25 had several severe flaws
19:29 < Namegduf> Two lessons there:
19:29 < aiju> therac-25 is just like chernobyl
19:29 < aiju> the design was flaws, the users fucked up
19:29 < aiju> *flawed
19:29 < Namegduf> 1) If your procedures are to ignore errors in your medical
hardware, you deserve a lengthly stay in prison.
19:29 < Namegduf> 2) The hardware was broken.
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19:30 < Namegduf> They should have refused to use it, if it was behaving
like that.
19:31 < skelterjohn|work> and risk their jobs?
19:31 < skelterjohn|work> i think the solution to this kind of problem is
regulatory
19:31 < aiju> the problem was that all errors just displayed a number
19:31 < aiju> as in "we need more funny laws"?
19:32 < skelterjohn|work> sometimes regulation is appropriate.  sometimes
not.
19:32 < skelterjohn|work> in this case i think some regulation about the
kinds of testing required is appropriate
19:33 < Namegduf> skelterjohn|work: Should be so they risk their jobs if
they use a medical device reporting an error condition.
19:33 < skelterjohn|work> i agree
19:33 < Namegduf> I mean, I'm no fan of Health and Safety, but when
operating a damn deathray it's appropriate to have very strict rules.
19:35 < aiju> well
19:35 < aiju> cf.  thalidomide
19:35 < skelterjohn|work> another reason for regulation
19:35 < aiju> uh
19:35 < aiju> *huh?
19:36 < aiju> thalidomide got through all the regulation
19:36 < skelterjohn|work> *better regulation
19:36 < skelterjohn|work> bad regulation is worse than none
19:38 < Namegduf> There probably is, now.
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20:09 < erus`> When you want to learn a language where none of your previous
programming experience will help you: Haskell
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20:21 < exch> Or Factor :)
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21:02 < exch> I'm trying to loop over a map with exp/template.  Docs state
that I can assign the key/value to variables, but package keeps complaining about
'Too many declarations in command'.  Is this not implemented yet?
21:02 < skelterjohn|work> on a related note, i'd like a blog post from
someone with some examples explaining how to use exp/template
21:02 < exch> eg: {{range .Field}} {{ $k, $v := . }} ...  {{end}}
21:02 < skelterjohn|work> maybe i suck at reading docs, but some things
weren't super clear to me
21:04 < exch> mm actually, that doesnt make much sense.  Inside the range,
'.' refers solely to the value
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21:05 < exch> I can't really do {{ $k, $v := .Field }} because that wouldnt
make much sense either
21:05 * exch puzzeled
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21:45 < kevlar_work> skelterjohn|work, I would expect the docs to improve
sometime between now and when exp/template moves out of exp
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22:29 < crest> do the crypto/x509 package authors want to make certificate
verification a pain in the ass?
22:30 < kevlar_work> heh
22:30 < kevlar_work> it's easier with that than some other packages I've
used.
22:30 < crest> they provide a verify function that doesn't support any
revocation mechanism?
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22:32 < crest> sry it's unfair to the authors they did a great job where
most others failed
22:38 < kevlar_work> I've actually never found an easy way to do revocation
22:38 < kevlar_work> but then again, I've also never really cared enough to
try
22:38 < kevlar_work> (that is, with other libraries)
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22:53 < crest> kevlar_work: i want to use client certs to authenticate
clients accessing a simple https rest api
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22:55 < crest> and the common name is the clients username
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23:54 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-24-0-2-70.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
23:55 -!- robteix [~robteix@host27.190-30-213.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Excess
Flood]
23:58 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-24-0-2-70.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined
#go-nuts
23:58 -!- robteix [~robteix@host27.190-30-213.telecom.net.ar] has joined #go-nuts
--- Log closed Thu Jul 21 00:00:01 2011