Go Language Resources Go, golang, go... NOTE: This page ceased updating in October, 2012

--- Log opened Wed Feb 03 00:00:53 2010
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02:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7AADM by [Kai Backman] in go/doc/ -- added
note about the GOARM env variable
02:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7AAE0 by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- fix build - misc ...  vs ...T fixes
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05:07 < tylere> Are there any editors that can syntax highlight go?
Preferably jedit or vim...
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05:23 < res> tylere: look in the misc dir
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07:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7Bhm1 by [Andrey Mirtchovski] in
go/src/pkg/sort/ -- sort: fix comment typo
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10:09 < rsaarelm> I don't suppose there's a way to make temporary struct
types at runtime using the reflect pkg?  Given reflect.Type for type typ at
runtime, I'd like to have a reflect.Type for something like "struct { A []typ }".
10:11 < rsaarelm> The idea is to make an utility function to serialize the
generic vector.Vector using gob, assuming that the vector values all have the same
gob-serializable type which we know when writing the code.
10:12 < rsaarelm> So the utility function would convert Vector, which is a
struct with an interface{} array into a runtime-generated struct with the concrete
type typ array, with all the values copied over from vec and cast to typ.  And
then gob would work with the new value.
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10:14 < rsaarelm> I don't think I can just write my own vector walker and
cast the individual elements for serialization, since if the element type is a
primitive type instead of a struct type, gob won't work with it without a wrapping
struct.
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16:23 < skelterjohn> anyone here used the SDL and OpenGL bindings yet?
16:23 < skelterjohn> gonna fool around with that a little bit, I think
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16:38 < Tigge> skelterjohn: I've played around a bit with the sdl bindings
16:38 < skelterjohn> ideally i'd have a question to ask by now
16:38 < skelterjohn> seems i have to learn git first (reading a git
tutorial)
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16:40 < Tigge> skelterjohn: ah, it also seems to be two SDL bindings around
16:40 < skelterjohn> oh good, then i have a question
16:40 < skelterjohn> which one is better?
16:41 < skelterjohn> i'm trying to use the one that is paired with an OpenGL
binding
16:41 < dho> morning.
16:41 < skelterjohn> which is why i want it in the first place
16:41 < Tigge> well, one also have bindings to sdl_image and sdl_mixer iirc
16:41 < skelterjohn> hey devon
16:41 * dho has been absent a while
16:41 < dho> home issues.
16:41 < skelterjohn> i'd been out a while too...  conference deadline issues
16:41 < dho> want to switch?  :\
16:41 < Tigge> http://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL
16:41 < Tigge> this is one
16:42 < skelterjohn> that's the one i'm trying to use
16:42 < skelterjohn> dho: not really - the deadline was tuesday 6am
16:42 < skelterjohn> so it's over
16:42 < skelterjohn> and i have an icml submission i'm pretty happy with
16:42 < dho> yes, I'd rather have that ;)
16:42 < skelterjohn> Tigge: newb question...i have git installed (can use it
from the command line)
16:42 < skelterjohn> how do i pull that repo?
16:42 < skelterjohn> the tutorial is...
16:43 < dho> skelterjohn: it's listed
16:43 < skelterjohn> well...not in the order i'd hope for
16:43 < dho> right on the page
16:43 < skelterjohn> i see "git://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL.git"
16:43 < dho> you just do git clone git://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL.git or
whatever the clone equiv is.
16:43 < skelterjohn> if i do something like "git checkout
git://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL.git"
16:43 < skelterjohn> it tells me that it's not a git repo
16:43 < skelterjohn> clone you say
16:43 < dho> yes
16:44 < dho> clone is the right thing to use
16:44 < skelterjohn> that is downloading stuff, thanks
16:44 < dho> np
16:45 < Tigge> git clone yes
16:45 < Tigge> sorry, was a bit slow :)
16:45 < Tigge> and now I go afk
16:45 * dho plays with http file uploaders.
16:45 < Tigge> but you can pm if you have any questions
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16:46 < skelterjohn> thanks
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17:52 < wrtp> what's the quickest way of making a copy of a string?
17:53 < KirkMcDonald> wrtp: Strings are immutable.
17:53 < wrtp> indeed
17:53 < KirkMcDonald> So why copy one?
17:53 < wrtp> but if i've got a large string, and i take a tiny slice of it,
then i don't necessarily want to keep the large string around
17:54 < anticw> for memory reasons?
17:54 < wrtp> yup
17:54 < anticw> how large are we talking about?  a few bytes from a 10s of
MBs?
17:54 < anticw> otherwise it's hard to see why it would be worth it
17:55 < wrtp> well, say i've got a GB size string
17:55 < KirkMcDonald> Heh: string(strings.Bytes(s[x:y]))
17:55 < anticw> yeah, that would be my suggestion
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17:55 < wrtp> i wondered if there was a way that didn't do two allocations
17:56 < wrtp> (given that only one is necessary)
17:56 < anticw> both are necessary though
17:56 < anticw> unless you do something with unsafe
17:58 < wrtp> in C, it would just be malloc, memcpy
17:58 < anticw> c strings are mutable
17:58 < anticw> so you make a mutable copy of the part you want and then the
string is constructed from that as immutable
17:58 < wrtp> yes - i just thought there might be a little bit of the
language that i hadn't seen that did a by-value copy of the string
17:59 < sstangl> wrtp: you mean memmove; realloc
17:59 < wrtp> sstangl: memmove or memcpy would do fine.  and malloc not
realloc since i'm allocating a new piece of memory
18:00 < wrtp> i think that strings.Copy() might be worth having
18:00 < skelterjohn> then you'd just have two of those GB sized strings
18:01 < skelterjohn> that are exactly the same
18:01 < wrtp> skelterjohn: no.  strings.Copy(gbsizedstring[0:3])
18:01 < skelterjohn> didn't see the 's' on 'strings'
18:02 < skelterjohn> how is that different than
strings.Bytes(gbsizedstring[0:3])
18:02 < wrtp> because it would return a string, not an array of bytes
18:02 < anticw> both return strings
18:02 < anticw> well, strings(...) around the latter as KirkMcDonald
suggested
18:03 < anticw> i dont think the copies matter, the allocations ...  maybe
18:03 < wrtp> strings.Bytes returns an array of bytes as the name suggests
18:03 < wrtp> putting a string around the strings.Bytes() does an extra
alloc & copy
18:04 < wrtp> and the copy isn't very efficient either
18:04 < anticw> did you measure it?
18:04 < wrtp> unlike the built-in copy function, which can use memcpy
18:04 < wrtp> well, it's a simple unrolled loop
18:05 < wrtp> i mean, not-unrolled
18:05 < anticw> so?
18:05 < anticw> cpus are sick fast and if it's hot-cache i doubt it costs
much
18:05 < wrtp> i wonder
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18:05 < skelterjohn> faster hardware is not the answer to code inefficiency
18:06 < skelterjohn> better code is
18:06 < skelterjohn> it's a valid concern
18:06 < anticw> it's a matter of practical balance ...  if this happens a
LOT then the runtime could be 'enhanced' to avoid a second copy and allocation
18:06 < anticw> it's not clear that's necessary yet
18:07 < skelterjohn> always good to think in the limit
18:07 < wrtp> anticw: i don't think that's possible without having a
primitive that maps to the combined operation
18:08 < wrtp> ...  which is what i'm thinking about
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18:08 < skelterjohn> the compiler can optimize
string(strings.Bytes(astring[lo:ho])) if it wants
18:08 < wrtp> if there's really no advantage, then why is memmove coded as
assembly?
18:09 < skelterjohn> but having something that just makes a string would be
nice
18:09 < wrtp> skelterjohn: it would have to privilege the strings package if
it did
18:09 < wrtp> unless some serious interprocedural optimisation was going on
18:10 < skelterjohn> not sure what that means, but it's an easy pattern to
match
18:10 < wrtp> but "strings" isn't special - i could have another package
named strings with a Bytes function that did something different
18:10 < wrtp> (for which the optimisation would be invalid)
18:11 < skelterjohn> right
18:11 < skelterjohn> if string(x) makes a copy, what about
string(theBigString[lo:hi])
18:12 < skelterjohn> would that copy?
18:12 < dho> what's wrong with newstring := bigString[0:3]?
18:12 < dho> that already copies.
18:13 < wrtp> dho: i didn't think it did
18:13 < skelterjohn> he wants the bigString to be collected, and i think the
assumption is that bigString[0:3] is a slice
18:13 < skelterjohn> is that assumption wrong?
18:13 < wrtp> isn't a string just like a slice except immutable?
18:13 < dho> a slice of a string is still a string, it is not []byte or
[]somesubsetofstring
18:14 < skelterjohn> semantically, it's clear
18:14 < wrtp> yes, but it doesn't copy the underlying bytes, so the original
string is still reachable
18:14 < skelterjohn> the issue is whether or not the larger string can be
collected
18:14 < dho> Ok, I see.
18:14 < skelterjohn> afaik, if there is a slice of an array somewhere, that
entire array will remain in memory
18:14 <+iant> that is true
18:15 < skelterjohn> so what about "littleString :=
string(bigString[lo:hi])"
18:15 < skelterjohn> would that make exactly one copy?
18:15 < wrtp> if, for instance i'm reading many files into memory as single
strings (not a bad way of doing it) and processing them by cutting out occasional
fragments, i'm going to generate a lot more garbage than i want
18:15 <+iant> skelterjohn: I don't think that will make any copies at all
18:15 < wrtp> skelterjohn: you can't do that
18:15 < wrtp> i think string("hello") is invalid
18:16 < wrtp> or it's a no-op if not
18:16 <+iant> wrtp: no, that is OK, it is no-op
18:16 <+iant> as you said
18:16 <+iant> wrtp: why not read the files into a []byte anyhow?
18:16 < skelterjohn> so if you pass string() an array of bytes, does it copy
those?
18:16 < wrtp> skelterjohn: yes
18:16 < skelterjohn> or just slice the bytes
18:16 <+iant> yes
18:17 < wrtp> it must
18:17 <+iant> it has to copy them, because the []byte might change, but the
string must be immutable
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18:17 <+iant> as the language defines them
18:17 < wrtp> iant: yeah, that's probably the way you'd do it.  but there
are times when string processing is nicer
18:17 < dho> on that point, there's a thread in the ML about using
syscall.Mmap to read in files to a []byte
18:18 < wrtp> iant: just because of the immutable properties
18:18 < dho> wrtp: you can convert a byte slice to a string
18:18 < wrtp> dho: yes, with a copy
18:18 < dho> :)
18:18 <+iant> to read a file into a string, you must in effect read into a
[]byte and then copy it into a string anyhow
18:19 < wrtp> iant: that's true.  but it's nice to pass strings around,
because then you know that nobody can modify them.
18:19 <+iant> true
18:19 < wrtp> particularly in a concurrent environment
18:20 < wrtp> it was only a passing thought anyway.  i just wondered if i'd
missed something.
18:21 < dho> Nope, don't think so
18:21 < dho> Can't be *that* hard to implement a strings.Copy
18:22 < wrtp> it'd be very easy - but difficult to do well without language
support
18:23 < dho> You're probably not going to be able to put a C file in
strings, but I think it should be possible to add a copy to runtime, for instance.
18:23 < wrtp> yeah, that's the kind of thing i was thinking ogf
18:23 < wrtp> s/ogf/of/
18:23 < dho> (and by not going to be able to, I mean such a patch is
probably less likely to be accepted)
18:23 < wrtp> theoretically, you could make copy(s) return a copy of s, but
it would be ugly as sin
18:26 < skelterjohn> honestly, a clone(obj) that does a shallow copy of an
arbitrarily typed object would be pretty useful
18:26 <+iant> skelterjohn: you could write that with the reflect package
18:27 < skelterjohn> but something that takes and returns type T
18:27 < skelterjohn> need generics
18:27 <+iant> true, it would return interface{}
18:27 < wrtp> skelterjohn: x := new(T); *x = *oldobj
18:27 < wrtp> gets you a reasonable way
18:27 < skelterjohn> how about if T = "string"
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18:27 <+iant> you can copy a string with a small inefficiency via (" " +
s)[1:]
18:28 < wrtp> :-)
18:28 < wrtp> like it
18:28 <+iant> actually ""+s might work with no inefficiency....
18:28 < skelterjohn> does ""+s compile away?
18:28 <+iant> dunno
18:28 < wrtp> difficult to tell - i was hoping recently that %p would work
on strings
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18:30 < anticw> iant: nice, ""+s is cute
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18:30 < dho> wow
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18:31 < dho> iant: devilishly disgusting :)
18:31 <+iant> you could for sure copy a string via func() string { return ""
}() + s
18:31 < anticw> can you really sure some distant future compiler won't
optimize that away?
18:31 < skelterjohn> since strings are immutable, i can definitely see the +
operator checking the length of either string...
18:32 <+iant> anticw: true, OK, most that function into a different
package....
18:32 <+iant> skelterjohn: hmmm, that is a good point
18:32 < wrtp> i think it would be reasonable to say that ""+s is never a
no-op when s is a slice
18:32 < anticw> iant: distant future toolchain then :-)
18:33 < wrtp> ah, but you can't tell when s is a slice.  hmm.
18:34 < skelterjohn> so, for the cgo experts in the house...  i'm trying to
get Go-SDL working...  http://pastebin.com/m66f98f5c
18:34 * dho looks
18:34 < skelterjohn> the type *Surface is used in the .go file, and defined
in the C headers
18:34 < skelterjohn> well let me double check that 2nd assertion i just made
18:35 < skelterjohn> headers define SDL_Surface...
18:35 < skelterjohn> how did Go-SDL work anywhere?  grar
18:35 < dho> he's always finding cgo bugs
18:35 < dho> and making me fix then
18:35 < dho> m
18:36 < dho> gimme a sec
18:36 < skelterjohn> the Go-SDL guy?
18:36 < dho> yeah
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18:36 < wrtp> iant: in gc at least, "" + s is always a no-op regardless of
where the empty string comes from
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18:37 < skelterjohn> it checks length?
18:37 < wrtp> so you'd need to do the (" " + s)[1:] trick
18:37 < wrtp> skelterjohn: yes
18:37 <+iant> alas
18:37 < skelterjohn> cool
18:37 < wrtp> see catstring in gc/string.cgo
18:37 < dho> i wish i understood compilers.
18:38 < dho> great.
18:39 < dho> my sdl bundle doesn't install an sdl.pc.
18:39 < wrtp> it's interesting that the string.cgo has alternate copying
implementations
18:41 < wrtp> oops misinformation above: it's in runtime/string.cgo
18:41 < wuehlmaus> good evening
18:42 < wuehlmaus> morning/midday, you name it
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18:54 < chickamade> anyone having 4 CPUs and a minute to experiment?
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18:55 < chickamade> I wondering if this Go program
http://github.com/aht/gosieve/blob/master/sieve2.go run faster with 4 than with 2
CPUs
18:55 < dho> yes
18:56 < chickamade> compile and run ./sieve2 -ncpu 2 -n 1000000 vs ./sieve2
-ncpu 4 -n 1000000
18:56 < chickamade> thanls
18:56 < dho> np.
18:56 < chickamade> s/l/k/
18:57 < LuitvD> :P
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18:57 < dho> takes a while to run with a million iterations; one sec.
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18:58 < chickamade> it should take about tens of seconds for one iteration
18:59 < dho> real 0m48.852s
18:59 < chickamade> so best of 3 would be more than enough
18:59 < dho> with 2
18:59 < dho> real 0m32.327s
18:59 < dho> with 4
18:59 < chickamade> cool
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18:59 < chickamade> and what's ./sieve2 -n 1000000
18:59 < chickamade> have you got more CPUs left :p?
19:00 < dho> nope, quad proc machine
19:00 < dho> real 0m13.219s
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19:01 < chickamade> interesting
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19:03 < chickamade> did you notice if each core was close to full
utilization (using -ncpu 4)?
19:04 < dho> I didn't run top
19:04 < chickamade> bored enough to try again?
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19:04 < dho> Cpu(s): 45.3%us, 27.5%sy, 0.0%ni, 27.0%id, 0.0%wa, 0.1%hi,
0.1%si, 0.0%st
19:04 < chickamade> you can use a smaller value for n
19:05 < chickamade> thanks
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20:18 < skelterjohn> trying to get a 3rd party library using cgo to
compile...  error I'm stuck on atm is "invalid recursive type _C_Uint8"
20:18 < skelterjohn> anyone know what that's about?
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20:24 < dho> what's in the _cgo_gotypes?
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20:31 < anticw> dho: i'm wondering if we can (ab)use finalizers in cgo
wrappers at this point
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20:31 < anticw> i know they aren't supposed to be used heavily ...  but it's
so tempting at times
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20:31 < anticw> right now the 'slow' nature of GC makes some uses of them
limited, perhaps a good thing
20:32 < dho> how so
20:36 < anticw> i was blabbering :-) ....  "how so" questions which
statement?
20:36 < dho> how would finalizers be (ab)used in cgo wrappers?
20:40 < anticw> oh, some wrappers that are involved in allocations would use
them to avoid C.free calls
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20:40 < anticw> or rather explicit calls outside of the wrapper
20:41 < dho> interesting
20:42 < anticw> one issue right now is the GC isn't very timely by default,
and so we could malloc (and not free) vast amounts of memory and it would never be
noticed
20:42 < dho> you can tune when the GC runs
20:43 <+iant> You can also just run it
20:43 < dho> that too
20:43 < anticw> sure, but that seems ugly
20:43 < skelterjohn> dho: http://pastebin.com/m65f4a334
20:43 < skelterjohn> sorry about the delay
20:43 < anticw> malloc memory from c/cgo won't be seen by the gc ...  so
it's size/growth won't help trigger GC cycles
20:43 < dho> oh, that's true.
20:43 < anticw> once (if) there is reference counting this becomes less of
an issue though
20:44 < anticw> iant just needs to hurry up and unify the runtimes and make
a magical new perfect GC
20:44 < dho> wonder how you'd annotate `caller frees' memory
20:44 < anticw> probably explicitly in the wrapper for now, it would just
make it easier for users
20:44 < anticw> depending on how the interfaces should look
20:44 < skelterjohn> and dho: the error i had was in _cgo_gotypes.go
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20:45 < anticw> it would mean if i have some high-level 'sdl object' and it
went out of scope in my go code i could have a finalizer free stuff for me
20:46 < dho> skelterjohn: yeah i know :)
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